Projects => Completed Mods => FFT Arena => Topic started by: Barren on December 20, 2012, 10:33:32 pm
Title: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 20, 2012, 10:33:32 pm
Thank you everyone for entering this unique tournament!
To go over some of the rules and regulations to help our viewers understand how this tournament works
1) All classes have to be the same (meaning 4 priests or 4 wizards etc) Secondary/Reaction/Support/Movement can be whatever you like
2) JP cap rules being 3000 or under still apply like a regular arena tournament match
3) This tournament will be contested in a Round Robin Challenge. The players are in 4 separate blocks so we have 4 blocks of 6. The winners of those 4 blocks will move on to the semi finals then the final round. The 4 block rounds, tie breaker round (if needed) and the semi finals will be 2 out of 3. The final round will be 3 out of 5
Now remember everyone: Know the AI, be the AI and kill everyone else! :D
Participants
Class: Chemist Palettes: Blue/White
================================
WHAT Male Serpentarius 40 70 Chemist Steal Auto Potion Magic Attack UP Pilgrimage Blast Gun
Thief Hat Santa Outfit 108 Gems
X-Potion, Holy Water Quickening
================================
HAVE Female Serpentarius 70 40 Chemist Draw Out Finger Guard Unyielding Move-HP Up Romanda Gun
Flash Hat Brigandine Sprint Shoes
Hi-Potion, Chrono's Tear, Maiden's Kiss, Soft, Bandage, Phoenix Down Masamune
================================
I Male Serpentarius 40 70 Chemist Steal Auto Potion Magic Attack UP Pilgrimage Glacier Gun
Thief Hat Rubber Costume 108 Gems
X-Potion, Holy Water Quickening
================================
BECOME Female Serpentarius 70 40 Chemist Draw Out Finger Guard Unyielding Move-HP Up Romanda Gun
Flash Hat Brigandine Sprint Shoes
Hi-Potion, Chrono's Tear, Maiden's Kiss, Soft, Bandage, Phoenix Down Masamune
================================
Class: Scholars Palettes: Brown/Blue
================================
Adamus Male Sagittarius 40 70 Scholar White Magic Absorb MP Magic Attack UP Move=0 Papyrus Plate
Golden Hairpin Black Costume Diamond Armlet
Shadow Shade, Bio, Bio 2 Raise 2, Esuna, Holy
================================
Edwardus Male Sagittarius 40 70 Scholar White Magic Absorb MP Magic Attack UP Move=0 Papyrus Plate
Golden Hairpin Black Costume Diamond Armlet
Shadow Shade, Bio, Bio 2 Raise 2, Esuna, Holy
================================
Diana Female Gemini 40 70 Scholar Summon Magic Distribute Short Charge Move-MP Up Wizard Staff
Holy Miter Earth Clothes N-Kai Armlet
Earth Dragon, Quake Fairy, Carbunkle, Zodiac
================================
Isabella Female Gemini 40 70 Scholar Summon Magic Distribute Short Charge Move-MP Up Wizard Staff
Holy Miter Earth Clothes N-Kai Armlet
Earth Dragon, Quake Fairy, Carbunkle, Zodiac
================================
Class: Geomancer Palettes: Black/Blue
================================
Lakamutarak Female Cancer 40 65 Geomancer Draw Out MA Save Overwhelm
Rune Blade Aegis Shield Golden Hairpin Wizard Outfit Setiemson
Caster Geo Female Pisces 40 70 Geomancer Summon Magic Projectile Guard Short Charge Move-MP Up Rune Blade Aegis Shield Golden Hairpin Wizard Robe 108 Gems
Moogle, Leviathan, Salamander, Fairy, Lich
================================
Annoying Geo Female Pisces 40 70 Geomancer Yin Yang Magic Counter Flood Short Charge Move-MP Up C Bag Aegis Shield Golden Hairpin Linen Robe Wizard Mantle
Round 1 - Map #17: Underground Cemetery of Limberry Castle Round 2 - Map #65: Granary of Bethla Garrison Round 3 - Map #63: Golgorand Execution Site
Celdia vs Vigilanti
Round 1 - Map #27: Goland Coal City Round 2 - Map #12: At the Gate of Lionel Castle Round 3 - Map #2: Back Gate of Lesalia Castle
BLOCK B Eternal vs The Damned Round 1 - Map #60: Underground Book Storage Fourth Floor Round 2 - Map #13: Inside of Lionel Castle Round 3 - Map #66: South Wall of Bethla Garrison
Reks vs reinoe Round 1 - Map #115: Banished Fort Round 2 - Map #52: Chapel of St. Murond Temple Round 3 - Map #40: Slums in Goug
Tie Breaker BLOCK A 1st Match - Map #38: Goug Machine City 2nd Match - Map #51: St. Murond Temple 3rd Match - Map #4: Office of Lesalia Castle
Tie Breaker BLOCK B 1st Match - Map #91: Thieves Fort 2nd Match - Map #103: Windmill Shed 3rd Match - Map #94: Broke Down Shed-Stone Building
Tie Breaker BLOCK C 1st Match - Map #75: Bervenia Volcano 2nd Match - Map #88: Finath River 3rd Match - Map #93: Broke Down Shed-Wooden Building
Tie Breaker BLOCK D 1st Match - Map #19: At the Gate of Limberry Castle (2) 2nd Match - Map #80: Aruguay Woods 3rd Match - Map #8: Riovanes Castle
(Block A Winner vs Block B Winner) Round 1 - Map #58: Underground Book Storage Second Floor Round 2 - Map #10: Inside of Igros Castle Round 3 - Map #16: Inside of Limberry Castle
(Block C Winner vs Block D Winner) Round 1 - Map #109: BRIDGE Round 2 - Map #14: Office of Lionel Castle Round 3 - Map #21: Zeltennia Castle
(Best 3 out of 5) Round 1 - Map #84: Bariaus Hill Round 2 - Map #60: Underground Book Storage Fourth Floor Round 3 - Map #52: Chapel of St Muround Temple Round 4 - Map #62: Chapel of Orbonne Monastery Round 5 - Map #116: Arena
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Eternal on December 20, 2012, 10:47:57 pm
Woo! Time to talk everyone to death! :D
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Celdia on December 20, 2012, 11:01:42 pm
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on December 21, 2012, 12:07:46 am
You know, in the World Cup there is a phenomena known as "the league of death": it's where one league is somehow way overpowered. Block "D" is this tournament's league of death.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on December 21, 2012, 12:58:18 am
PLACE YOUR BETS PLACE YOUR BETS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LET'S GET A POOL GOING
I vote for yours truly of course
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 21, 2012, 12:58:31 am
Quote You know, in the World Cup there is a phenomena known as "the league of death": it's where one league is somehow way overpowered. Block "D" is this tournament's league of death.
I wonder If I'm a cause or victim?
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Reks on December 21, 2012, 01:16:56 am
Good luck to everyone!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 21, 2012, 01:20:08 am
I like how everyone's eyes immediately flew to D Block.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 21, 2012, 01:29:21 am
(Haha! So I do get to fight reinoe and Dokurider as I suspected would happen; fighting Reks should be interesting too. I'm glad that I have to fight Toshiko rather than Raven as I suspected might happen, though now Projectile Guard is kind of worthless unless I make it out of the Rounds.
That's...unfortunate since there are three all Archer teams and quite a few Gun users and even Equip Ranged users. I honestly expected there to be more Projectile Guard.)
First and foremost, thanks for arranging everything. Still feel kinda of guilty since I brought this up as a joke initially, so it's rather...jarring to see you go through all the effort already. Feel free to ask if you need help still.
That said, there's something I have to point out: RavenofRazgriz & Otabo are fighting twice. I don't think that's supposed to happen. (Also, Taichii's spoiler has Scholar misspelled as "Scholae", though that hardly matters.)
Secondly, pre-tournament "props" must go out to TrueLight & Vigilanti as well for deigning to try to use things as seemingly useless as Tsumazuku & Death, respectively.
Thirdly, damn, there's a lot of Dark-absorb again as there historically has been until 138 and a bit more recently. I didn't expect so many other Cursed Rings either, much less N-Kai Armlets, especially given how many instances of Raise 2 I expected.
Lastly, time to unnecessarily quote everyone already:
Hmmm...I admittedly am a bit surprised you went the Faith-based route and three of the teams you're facing look like they hit quite hard and are physical and therefore instant. However, I don't think you'll get curb-stomped (that horribly) despite Wizard's squishiness.
At the very least, Priests versus Wizards should be interesting.
Thanks for this, especially already. I can't say I'm surprised at Auto Potion, Throw Item or the four Move Up--including Pilgrimage & Warpath here--being so high. I am rather surprised that Projectile Guard is so low, even if it could easily end up being dead in the water as with my team. Similarly surprised to see Counter Flood be one of the higher ones after being ignored for pretty much all of 138 alongside actual Geomancy.
Also, I wasn't expecting Concentrate to be so low or for half of the Equips to be used and yet have Equip Armor not be one of them. Interesting.
Chrome EDIT: Ugh, now proofread with Chrome's spazzing out stopping just because I had Gmail open. Honestly.
Vigilant EDIT: Not that Chrome is any excuse for constantly wanting to misspell Viglanti's name as the actual word, among other things, though.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Taichii on December 21, 2012, 04:33:47 am
let's enjoy this rumble fest everyone! XD wew good thing i dont have to match up against dokurider or fdc real soon XD *sigh of contented relief* hahaha .. i'll be roting for RP'ers eitherway XD
EDIT : the damned, i think its better that way 8D hahaha it matches the name of revenant choir XD somewhat victorish~ XD
im still handsome win or lose ofcourse XD
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 21, 2012, 06:51:11 am
Thanks for seeing more of my errors Damned.
Just fixed the Round 4 of Swiss for Block D.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on December 21, 2012, 07:05:08 am
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 21, 2012, 12:20:47 pm
(Yay! I get to not get stabbed in the face and instead get shot at, which means Projectile Guard actually gets some use.)
*sees something as he looks because he didn't notice that mistake despite noticing Raven & Otabo's*
Hmmm...maybe I don't. I've notice two more repetition, Barren:
1. NinjaWeazel vs. Malroth are fighting twice in Round 2 & Round 4 in Block D.
2. Toshiko vs. Dokurider is now happening twice in Round 3 and 4 in Block B due to fix for Eternal.
This is why trying to run swiss tournaments are rather pain in the ass, as much I appreciate it. Still, it can work since Block A and Block C don't have any repeats; Block A is missing its heading for Round 3 though. [/minor crap]
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 21, 2012, 01:00:43 pm
*sees something as he looks because he didn't notice that mistake despite noticing Raven & Otabo's*
Hmmm...maybe I don't. I've notice two more repetition, Barren:
1. NinjaWeazel vs. Malroth are fighting twice in Round 2 & Round 4 in Block D.
2. Toshiko vs. Dokurider is now happening twice in Round 3 and 4 in Block B due to fix for Eternal.
This is why trying to run swiss tournaments are rather pain in the ass, as much I appreciate it. Still, it can work since Block A and Block C don't have any repeats; Block A is missing its heading for Round 3 though. [/minor crap]
Thanks again Damned, I had to rearrange the entire Block B because of that error. I'll check for more
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 21, 2012, 01:35:48 pm
(Hmmm...I appear to be fighting reinoe twice now in Rounds 3 & 4, but everything else looks fine from a completely cursory glance.)
Take your time with this, though. There's no need to rush between it being the holidays, you choosing to do this by yourself and swiss tournament formatting making redundancy a pain in the ass to avoid.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 21, 2012, 01:40:03 pm
Checked for any other mistakes and it looks like we are finally in the clear :)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Gaignun on December 21, 2012, 01:48:02 pm
Wizards versus Monks in round one. That's going to be rough.
Also, isn't the point of a swiss tournament to pair winners with winners and losers with losers? By placing contestants in pools and setting the matches ahead of time, this tournament is better described as a round robin.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on December 21, 2012, 01:53:32 pm
Sorry Gaignun, but I'm going 0-4. Maybe 1-3 if I'm hilariously lucky.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 21, 2012, 02:11:30 pm
Also, isn't the point of a swiss tournament to pair winners with winners and losers with losers? By placing contestants in pools and setting the matches ahead of time, this tournament is better described as a round robin.
I'll change it to Round robin then. thanks for pointing out the grammatical error
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 21, 2012, 02:22:33 pm
(Swiss. Round Robin. Both pains in the ass to plan for, so you're hardly the only one to mix them up.)
Oh, hey. I do get to avoid getting stabbed in the face when everything is said and done. It's like all my minimal luck decided to use itself up in the past 18 hours.
Thanks again, Barren. I'll check for a bunch of things when I get back in...uh, however many hours it takes the world not to end today.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 21, 2012, 05:36:07 pm
Just when you think the world was ending the FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament has offically begun!!
Heed my words: Blood will be split :D
Also please note that even though I did say Rounds of Swiss I actually meant to say Round Robin and made a mistake. So I apologize in advance for a slight misleading
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block A - VireBlaze vs Taichii (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY20F5VmCo8&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block A - DomieV vs Vigilanti (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF6XBVfgH-Y&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block A - Jumza vs Celdia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfFsQRFebc&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on December 21, 2012, 05:37:43 pm
I think Fate saw that there is a Tournament going on on FFH and decided to not destroy humanity. Wich is a shame if you ask me.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Eternal on December 21, 2012, 06:47:30 pm
Using my uber admin powers, I hereby declare DomieV vs. Vigilanti the best Arena match ever.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 21, 2012, 06:58:35 pm
Definitely sleeper match of the tournament candidate, but there's more to come :D
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Vigilanti on December 21, 2012, 07:02:39 pm
Wow man! just wow @_@.......do many freaking turnovers in Round 2! just when I think I lost here comes my undead summoner back in the mix! GG DomieV. That was a amazing fight
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 21, 2012, 08:34:30 pm
(Thanks for both the help and the quick videos, Barren.
I forgot to say that I don't envy you when it comes time to try to pronounce the names of Avalanche's units.)
I also forgot to give extra "props" to Vigilanti for using Lich, Titan and Shiva as well as Celdia for using Death and Jumza for using Witch Hunt & Titan. It's rather nice to see some of the lesser techniques being used, especially when I still find it somewhat odd that Titan is one of them, avoidable aspect and Float(ing) aside.
Anyway, on to the match commentary:
Yeah...I kind of expected to VireBlaze's team to have problems in general. As soon as I saw his somewhat odd weapon selection and general lack of AoE despite all his units being more than capable of it through their Primary, I figured he would have trouble, especially with something like Lore. It didn't even occur to me that him having Koutetsu Knives made it even more of a doomed match-up given I was worrying more about myself fighting Taichii than anyone else, mostly because both of us are using Shadow Shade and all-team Dark-absorb; at least my team was all Dark-absorb until that change to Warp. I mean, I can understand a Gastraftis (or other powerful Bow or Gun) on one of the Samurai given their natural inability to use shields, but both when they also had too low Brave to make up the damage just seemed problematic.
Oh well. He's still new-ish, so it's doubly a learning experience.
Not really much else to say here except that it's nice to see Zeklaus Desert again and the Bio 2s adding Frog in both matches made up for HP Restore activating both times as well.
As I think Velius/Belias says, you have the devil's own luck, Vigilanti. Seriously, the Undead summoner alone much have signed some pact to be hitting multiple 38% Deaths on the Paladins, multiple 70% Deaths to heal herself and generally getting up every fourth turn instead of potentially lying there for another. Perhaps it's "karma" for DomieV just using Famous Knights for his all-Paladin team, which honestly disappointed me a bit as understandable as it was.
Potentially asshole comment aside and more seriously, this match was exactly the reason that I scratched my head when I saw that DomieV had switched from Chaos Blade to Ice Brand & Kaiser Plate on the Southern Cross Paladin. Yes, it's basically the same amount of power on the Southern Cross and now you get the benefit of a shield...except now your damage is vulnerable to elemental things, especially if you're not (ab)using Oil. I don't know. I suppose it's because I have a low opinion of Ice Brand, especially since Paladins have piss-poor MA to take advantage of an Ice 2 proc, but he seemed to be doing well with Chaos Blade anyway. If he still had that, then I have no doubt he would have won at least the second match even after the Time Magic(k) Paladin went down.
Oh well. No point in crying over spilled swords with the benefit of hindsight, especially when it was an understandable choice in the first place. It just ended up backfiring here a lot sooner than I expected it would.
Those last six minutes were quite good considering how the first round went. For the first round, I just kept chuckling at the Witch Hunt overkill, at least until that initial Earth Slash shredded two units instantly. It's so easy to forget how scary Dancer can be when they're actually attacking instead of stuck Dancing.
But back to the second round, that was a lot more even and thus interesting even though like Barren I thought things were soon ended as soon as both of those Titan-targeted Squires both got Oiled in one go. It somehow managed to go back and forth despite one of the remaining Squire's being always Slow, probably because the Nameless Dancer ran out of MP, which I figured would be a problem. I still don't understand why she was randomly Refuting herself to get rid of Reflect though, unless it was "targeting" the Performing despite that stopping as soon as she chose to Refute. Oh well. More evidence that Refute really doesn't need to cancel Performing or Charging.
That said, that Dancer oddly is what got them the win in the end despite Item-bot Dancer being an idiot repeatedly and not bothering to throw Ethers at her since Refute actually worked to get rid of the Poison. If that hadn't happened, the hilarious kamikaze-Bullrush critical that lost Celdia the match wouldn't have happened. I suppose it didn't really help Celdia either that Phoenix Blade Squire took forever to Stigma Magic himself, though I realize now that this was likely because the Nameless Dancer was still "Dancing" despite having no MP, so his AI just refused.
The AI is still so weird about a bunch of things....
Regardless of my rambling, good showing so far everyone.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on December 21, 2012, 10:06:50 pm
Round Robin is easier to run than Swiss. I used to play a CCG and swiss rounds are a major headache. Strength of schedule, byes, "pairing up/"pairing down", and then on occasion: Honest to goodness ties despite all the built in tie-breaker scenario's. Round Robin is definitely the way to go. And in case I haven't said it yet:
Barren is awesome
This is a nice way to spend the winter break.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on December 22, 2012, 04:25:25 am
QuoteBarren is awesome
Thats right doing it all by yourself seems a lot of work. Thanks for that!
QuoteI forgot to say that I don't envy you when it comes time to trying to pronounce the name of Avalanche's units.)
Ja sorry for that. Just call them unit 1, 2, 3 and 4 if you like.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Taichii on December 22, 2012, 07:46:17 am
GG vireblaze.. in my opinion, i should have chosen samurais as well but looking at my team before.. the samurai ain't doing anything much as i expected it to do.. it does less.. and so i picked something else... :D
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL... IT'S EITHER WE WIN THIS FIGHT... OR WE MAKE 'EM WAIT.. A LITTLE LONGAAAAHHH! XD HAHAHAHA... that match is great XD
ouch.. that witch hunt is gonna be a hard one for me in my future match with jumza hahhaa.. what happened to the dancer with no mp left? it still keeps on dancing and is rendered useless for turns O_O Mistress Celdie is hard hitting XD she'll make me look like paper in the future.. nice match guys and GG XD
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Jumza on December 22, 2012, 10:50:31 am
Wow, none of my teams have lost yet! I am on a huge roll right now (I think I just jinxed it though) So yeah, GG Celdia. The only thing I can say is thanks to Barren for telling me to use witch hunt, and for making the videos.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on December 22, 2012, 11:03:53 am
Samurais could never really get in range and when they did, they couldn't inflict enough damage.
What a battle. Those Paladins tried their best to tank, but unfortunately the RNG caught up to them. The key here was Pilgrimage, the longer the Summoners stayed up, the more damage they inflicted. It didn't help that the Time Magic Paladin went down early, DomieV needed those Sinkholes/Balances.
Witch Hunt can be a pain, especially when its hard to recover the MP lost.
With that, we are off to a great start into the tournament, thanks to you Barren.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Celdia on December 22, 2012, 02:47:02 pm
Wow, none of my teams have lost yet! I am on a huge roll right now (I think I just jinxed it though) So yeah, GG Celdia. The only thing I can say is thanks to Barren for telling me to use witch hunt, and for making the videos.
Oh, yes, thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much for telling him that, Barren. >_<
Seriously though, GG. 2nd round confirmed that my team can do what I want it to but there was no hope for them across the first map. Oil was the deciding factor on the 3rd which I think was the best fight of the set, of course. Had me on the edge of my seat in the last few minutes. Hopefully I'll fair better in future matches. I pity anyone else that has to take on your team, Jumza. Fucking dancers, man...
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: DomieV on December 22, 2012, 07:33:30 pm
Just got home from the gym and saw the match vs vigilanti
I got to say while that was a great fight, I must say that I was disappointed with what happened in round 2. I almost had that match won! If only that critical hit came then I would have had a shot at Round 3, but alas it twas not meant to be.
While I can understand Damned where you are coming from as far as ice brand and kaiser plate vs chaos blade. but i wanted more magic evasion which did help me last longer than I thought in Round 2. Maybe I should replace someone's Battle Axe with Bizen Boat. But hey 2 decap procs are better than one
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 22, 2012, 07:43:54 pm
(Yeah, like I said it was an understandable change even with the success you were having with Chaos Blade. Not like it was an incompetent change or anything.)
I just figured that it would end up biting you in the ass sooner or later and it just happened to be a lot sooner than later, especially that Paladin doesn't have any other attacks that end up being able to hit non-elementally. Additionally, on top of the White Robes, Vigilanti's teams made the additional M-EV from the new Ice Shield moot compared to Famous Knight's first outing because Vigilanti actually had things that ignored M-EV.
As for Bizen Boat versus Battle Axe, might as well stick with Battle Axe, at least while Decapitate remains overpowered at 85% HP when it goes off. It would be nice to see someone use Bizen Boat the katana, but almost all mages block Silence, so....
Besides, those particular Paladins aren't really built for damage, are they? It just seems like they're focused on lasting long enough for Decapitate to inevitably go off. As such, I'd argue that it would have to be "equally" annoying for a replacement to suitable and the only Katana that's really like that is the new Heaven's Cloud (which has also remained unused thus far IIRC). You could always try going with Ancient Sword or Sleep Sword on one of them though.
Shrug.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 23, 2012, 07:13:57 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block B - reinoe vs Dokurider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvekLhuxM50&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block B - Reks vs The Damned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqj85vnW6Jc&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block B - Toshiko vs Eternal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZzAf2dOcI&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Angel on December 23, 2012, 08:15:33 pm
Went better than I thought it would, after round one. I was expecting to waste all my turns on talk skills instead of beating Eternal's chattybitches to death.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Eternal on December 23, 2012, 08:18:09 pm
Round Two sucked, but for the most part everything went as planned. GG!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on December 23, 2012, 08:53:53 pm
reinoe just didn't have enough DPS to take down those tanky Thieves.
Darkness Nova ftw. Reks never really got his offense going and those Time Mages are quite the nuisance with their Time Magic
Magic guns still hurt.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on December 23, 2012, 08:57:55 pm
Hi-Potion/Auto Potion shenanigans in round 2 were particularly awful to watch. Despite facing Undead, Delphic Oracle never cast Raise 2 on the enemy. Things are looking grim for the Fouracles. There were so many things I didn't take into account for this tourney and in retrospect there's one glaring issue with the team. Oh well, live and learn.
edit: lol at one of the Oracles getting hit with Magic Ruin and then Countering with Absorb MP.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on December 23, 2012, 09:17:32 pm
Me vs Reinoe: Reinoe simply didn't have the DPS to kill me. His only notable source of damage was Ivory Rod and Zodiac. It didn't help that I'm running on a strong anti-magic bent. It's odd that I never got Raise 2 casted on me. I guess I kept the team too busy to try that.
The Damned vs Reks: Well well well, the Damned finally won a match for the first time in a month. A well timed combination of Stop and Don't Move allowed him to utterly sweep with the Demis and Comet without letting Reks mount any kind of offense.
Toshiko vs Eternal: It begins. I think that Toshiko could have won these provided that she um, not use Female ninjas. It would have netted her some precious DPS that could have gotten her the win. I also think she could have benefited strongly from having Shuriken. But if you had fun, then that's all that matters.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Angel on December 23, 2012, 11:01:37 pm
Ja, that's all I was going for. Barren needed a slot to fill, and I thought it would be fun. I honestly have very little idea of what I'm doing. Even if I lose every match, I at least got a round off on Eternal. 8D
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on December 24, 2012, 06:41:56 am
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block B - Reks vs The Damned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqj85vnW6Jc&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block B - Toshiko vs Eternal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZzAf2dOcI&feature=youtu.be)
In my opionion Thief are one of the strongest clases out there. Everyone of the Thiefes in this Team is a good unit but i think they dont harmonize so great. Still a great Team.
Seems like i underestimated the Power of Time
both great Team. this was fun to watch. But i dont know why but i dont like that those elemental Guns are so damn strong.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 24, 2012, 05:52:35 pm
(Thanks for the videos as always, Barren.)
This especially due to me remembering what a pain in the ass ePSXe seems to be....
Hunh. The Oracles were more a danger to themselves than the Thieves, especially since for some reason, the Raise 2 Oracle didn't bother even trying that on the Thief once unlike the Oracle with Item. I also only realized just now that only one unit on reinoe's team blocks Silence and that same unit can't cure it, though at least Oracle with Item can; it's just that he doesn't have Throw Item. So Charm basically screwed him over where getting stabbed in the face didn't, given his only semi-consistent source of offense is Zodiac and he has no damaging way of getting past M-EV.
When combined with the Thieves natural speed advantage, I'm surprised this wasn't more one-sided or quicker. Also surprised that the AI was intelligently using Speed Ruin and Magic Ruin, particularly the latter without anyone having to be in mid-charge. For some reason, it tends to want to do bag-smacks than anything remotely productive half of the time.
Hunh. I...won? ...That quickly too?
Didn't expect that, especially given that Bards tend to manhandle me, Reks tends to use them and Time Mage's squishiness combined with the faster AI's tendency to charge forward into death even when not in range. That combined with me apparently miscalculating Bleed's (initial?) Speed with Move=0 had me dreading being on the end of another curbstomp after seeing the short time.
...And yet, my Time Mages acted competently, even that initial Haste, and didn't get greedy with anything despite the fact they easily could have. They didn't focus too much on Slow 2 or the Demis like I feared they might, but instead went for Stop, Don't Move and assured damage of Comet. Hell, Warp's Auto Potion went off almost every time as well and Float actually got to use Sinkhole.
It definitely helped that Reks' initial strike in the first round was...lackluster and oddly physical despite the Bards' capability and that for some reason Stop had 72% chance of hitting apparently all but the Taurus Bard, who had/has Bad compat. with Countdown. Also helped that of the Lords available, Earth Dragon is the worst to use against this team after Shadow Shade since two units are completely immune, Countdown only takes half and Bleed gets her MP entirely restored for Shadow Shade.
That second round was just rather brutal. No one on Reks's team even got to attack save for two instances of Paralyze targeting just one person, one of which missed somehow.
Regardless, GG Reks. I'm sure you'll have better chance in the other Rounds.
Sigh, spellguns really do seem too powerful still. I no longer look "forward" to having a use for Projectile Guard, especially since Countdown is no longer wearing a Robe and Mediators have 9 Speed too (which I keep forgetting). That has yet to happen though and I am digressing.
When it comes to this match, for being a "joke team" apparently, Toshiko's team actually didn't do that poorly despite the spellguns, odd weapon and ability choice aside, i.e. using Mage Masher second after Dual Cutters instead of Platina Dagger. That said, the sub-Death Sentence focus definitely worked in the second round. That round was kind of hilarious.
I'm a bit confused why Ayane, the few times she got to attack before inevitably dying to spellgun barrage, didn't seem to use Kagesougi instead choose to attack normally. Maybe it's because of female PA being slightly lower so that AI didn't seem like it was worth?
Shrug. That's the failure of Dead or Alive for you; I'm surprised Short Edge still failed as hard. Eternal apparently got really unlucky if that's accidentally 50% now.
Speaking of accidental percentages ala Short Edge, it would seem that Mage Masher is going off 100% of the time from what I've noticed. Might want to fix that.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 26, 2012, 12:41:22 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block C - AeroGP vs Dol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5UBVyArCMw&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block C - Avalanche vs Pride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N711IMwhrcs&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block C - TrueLight vs Angelus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44WUyLBtdks&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on December 26, 2012, 01:42:51 pm
Well, that was a long match. Dol held on long enough to gather the MA/PA to do enough damage to the Chemists.
Geomancers did constant damage and Pride couldn't recover.
Hmmm...long maps seem to be my weakness. I guess I should have calculated my movement range but oh well. Those Scholars were quite tanky for not having 300+ health and I just didn't inflict enough damage. At least my tanky Ninja held on for quite some time. GG Angelus.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Angelus on December 26, 2012, 03:21:04 pm
Good match dude, I'm happy that my scholars are functioning as they are suppose to so far. I was hoping for a book proc to cast flare but I guess I'll wait for another chance at that. maybe faith rod would have been better since i'm running
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dol on December 26, 2012, 04:57:15 pm
Merry Christmas or your equivalent to everyone, and thanks for all the matches Barren.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 26, 2012, 04:59:47 pm
Faith rod would only help the first wave of lores, I'd have gone with the book that procs undead to get rid of auto potion units
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on December 26, 2012, 05:18:05 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block C - Avalanche vs Pride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N711IMwhrcs&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block C - TrueLight vs Angelus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44WUyLBtdks&feature=youtu.be)
Wow incredible long yet not boring Match both good Teams i suppose. but on paper the Samurai Team looks like a hardcounter to this Gunwielding Chemist.
Well after this 50 min. Match i think this was refreshing
I am a bit afraid of this Scholar Team i think they could be able to beat even my Geomancer Team
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: formerdeathcorps on December 26, 2012, 05:18:57 pm
Faith Rod isn't a good idea when you have to face spell gunners. That's a guaranteed 1HKO.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 26, 2012, 09:45:09 pm
(Yeah, Faith Rod is basically a guaranteed death unless you have White Robe or Projectile Guard. That said, given the current Pilgrimage power-up, a strengthened Spellgunner with even just "decent" MA can easily OHKO most mages after just two steps. Hurray for obvious balance.)
Speaking of spellgun stupidity, I knew I wasn't overacting to those POSs and their still too-high level of power. Ugh.
Anyway, most importantly, thanks for suffering through that Barren. Trying to record things myself now has made me realize even more what a pain in the ass is, especially when it comes to editing stuff that's so lengthy.
I can't answer AeroGP's question of he has become without inadvertently calling him an expletive, so I'll just redirect my ire towards other things by saying "Fuck Spellguns and fuck Quickening." I'd curse Masamune too, but that was actually the least bullshit thing going on in this match when came to either team, which is really saying something.
I "like" how either team only really won a round because their opponent decided to be extra stupid and split up. Otherwise, there's no telling how long this would have dragged. AeroGP probably would have won overall given Projectile Guard had to eventually fail as it did in the first Round. Well, he would have had one of his female Chemists not meandered off like an idiot in the second round and his Blast Gunner did the same suicidal thing in the third round.
It's really sickening to see otherwise not magickal units freely get high, instant damage that dwarfs the power of most mages. I'm increasingly convinced all three spellguns just need to die, which is also saying a lot because as much as Phoenix Blade has been tormenting me in recordings, I don't even feel that way around that yet.
For some reason, I hadn't realized that Pride was in this tournament and that he had Priests until I saw the match get posted and I checked the front page. It's rather interesting that despite having resurrection on all units he went down so quickly, especially since the two non-Draw Out bots weren't doing all that much damage with Elemental (though more than Elemental has been doing as of late on most units). I guess two Chirijiradens were more than enough though given both the overall (overwhelming) power of (that) Draw Out and that only the first Priest had M-EV (if she wasn't Charging something).
Regardless of his loss, I'm still impressed that the fourth Priest's Holy does 493 damage with neutral compat. and "only" 70 Faith. Hunh. Some of his equipment choice otherwise seems a bit...odd though.
Yeah...I'm going to say much about this match because I just talked about Scholars to death in the Balance thread and I've already said that Kagesougi really doesn't need Don't Act.
So, at present, I'll just say that two Platina Daggers is really unlikely to work well. That or just be a "win-more". Also, even if Tsumazuku actually got use, which it unlikely went, as this match showed, Happy (and Erza too, frankly) would have benefit from being able to have some offense at a distance.
Regardless, as it was, even if they had though things, Angelus almost certainly would have still won just because TrueLight's team has literally no offensive AoE while Angelus has it in spades. This combined with the all-map Lores being unavoidable and...yeah. Inevitable.
I really don't look forward to Angelus vs. AeroGP in Round 2.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on December 27, 2012, 12:16:00 am
Projectile Guard works while casting. Yay! Also it's nice to know that whatever bug there was with P.G. has indeed been fixed. It's also interesting to note that if those Magic gun wielding Chemists were Archers instead, the additional power might have sealed the deal for AeroGP instead. Chemists cannot run Magic Attack Up+Kaiser Plate.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 27, 2012, 12:18:53 am
I concidered going that way in my archer team but the extra MA, 50% spell evasion and silence immunity had me going for Aegis shields so i could run a hard Rez and haste 2 on my gunners.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Taichii on December 27, 2012, 07:58:55 am
i LOLed real hard at the throw hi potion at the undead oracle then autopotion suicide on himself hahaha XDD
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 27, 2012, 12:21:44 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block D - formerdeathcorps vs CT5Holy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw4k6GOd2mU&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block D - RavenOfRazgriz vs NinjaWeazel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWS_ELtmdbE&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 1 Block D - Malroth vs Otabo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP6r4F0igZ4&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on December 27, 2012, 01:48:14 pm
I didnt expect the Wizards to win so easy. In contrary i thought Monks will win that. Seems like i underestimated the Power of Magic
Here my first guess was that lancers should win that easy, especialy with Jump which is a goos way to evade spellls like holy, but after all that was not easy
Since i tested my own Geomancer Team against this archer-team i know that it is very, very hard to win against them. So no suprise there
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 27, 2012, 02:27:50 pm
Raven really could have benefited from either putting Biezen Bolt on his draw Out lancer or having a Dancing Lancer with Witch Hunt and Slow dance
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on December 27, 2012, 02:44:03 pm
Well that was short. Monks never got in range to do lethal damage and those Wizards poured on the AOE. Flare/Holy are quite deadly.
Not bad for someone completely new to Arena. Priests just didn't have enough DPS and MP was scarce.
Range vs Range battle. Lots of damage from Cover Fire and magic guns still hurt as usual.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 27, 2012, 02:57:55 pm
Well his AOE capability was much greater than mine but He tended to use Draw-Out and Summons for healing so the fact that I outspeed him by a significant margin (10 speed + haste 2 vs 8 speed and masamune) let me damage him just enough to get his units to bunch up for those cover fires.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on December 27, 2012, 03:52:09 pm
Holy crap fdc you weren't kidding when you said my wizards would destroy you. Yikes. Did not see that coming.
Will get to other matches soon, and thank you so much Barren for all the videos!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 27, 2012, 04:54:59 pm
(Ugh. NinjaWeazel's team is making me want to make a certain type of Priest team. I really shouldn't though....)
And so Round 1 comes to a close already. Thanks for everything Barren, including being so speedy about this, especially given the length of one of those last matches....
It's interesting having to change my expectations for certain matches and teams after I get a look at both how they fight and, by actually examining the first post rather than just glancing at it, what they're using. Which reminds me of something else I was meaning to do...:
Not only did I not realize what the names of the Monks were until they fought, but I didn't realize that they had no M-EV between them, which is what won CT5Holy the round so quickly even if Flare is unavoidable; Flare once again shows why it basically obviates Death. This is a bit ironic considering I was telling formerdeathcorps about a week or two ago in the Balance thread that not as many people use M-EV as it seemed he was implying at the time.
(As an aside, I'm a bit mystified as to why two of his Monks have 55 Faith instead of being 40 Faith across the board given his complete lack of spells. Maybe he just got paranoid about Ninjutsu? If that's the case, then it's another case of irony as he's literally the only person using the UnFaith-tons in the entire tournament. Even if he wasn't, I'm not sure it would be worth it, especially everyone wants to take as little damage from spellguns as they reasonably can without hampering themselves.
I suppose on More I can understand it due to him having HP Restore, but at the very least, it seems quite unnecessary for Aquinas to have 55 Faith, but I'm heavily digressing.)
Like Avalanche, I kind of expected Monks to win, if only because they hit so damn hard and I just got done ranting about Wizards are basically inferior Scholars; they still are, mind you, but that doesn't mean they're completely unusable, even as a 4-of.
Not really much to say about the actual "match", especially that second round where the AI just lined and grouped up like an idiot just as Barren was narrating that they shouldn't do that; I wonder if this means "commentator's curse" applies to AI. The Monks might have been able to even win or, at least, take someone else down that round and possibly not die so quickly as one of the Wizards barely survived that 246 Cover Fire hit by 2 HP. Then again, that might have been the maximum damage off of that, so....
I expected Raven to win this, really. I just expected him to do more damage and be able to win it (a lot) more quickly, especially given that NinjaWeazel doesn't have as much revival as Pride's Priests.
To be frank (and probably sound like an asshole), NinjaWeazel's team is easily the weakest in Block D. This is to be expected since he's new-ish, but he really just can't deal enough damage to people to take them down without having to rely too heavily on 20% Oil, especially if his opponent has M-EV. In addition to that, everyone on his team is way too overburdened in terms of active abilities, especially when they pretty much no real means of restoring MP; Lucia is the most horribly affected by this. So basically he ends up trying to whittle people down when he has no offensive staying power sans Kiyomori...even though probably literally at least half of all teams can cure Poison in some way.
NinjaWeazel's team would benefit immensely just from being more selective about skills: e.g. Lucia getting only one of Raise or Raise 2 and Protect 2 or Shell 2, Bastian losing Southern Cross so he'll heal himself with Grand Cross or losing Black Costume & Grand Cross and getting some actual MP via a Robe, Bocephus either losing Move-MP Up & Magic Defend UP and getting Martial Arts or losing Punch Art entirely, etc.
Still, not so terribly bad as to get beaten by four Mimes on his first (?) outing and the Chivalrous Male Priest is...interesting. It also "helped" that the teams were effectively fighting 3v3 for quite a while due to the AI's stupid obsession with Masamune and Kiyomori extending things out; I'm starting to see those two animations when I close my eyes. That and Raven not covering the Undead Lancer's Fire weakness (not that he needs to), so the Priests were able to kill said Lancer at least temporarily despite their overall lack of damage.
Speaking of which, if nothing else, I have to "give props" to NinjaWeazel for using Consecration, though he kind of bought all of Chivalry anyway, so I'm not sure that was conscious decision. Still, I think that's the first time it's seen use or, at least, has seen success. So congrats.
Despite being the closest match since both of these teams are equally strong but not all that overpowering (despite Malroth having spellguns), there's not much to say here really. The second round being lost was kind of inevitable both with the map chosen--again, Goug Machine City is horrible for gunners (and crossbows and those who use Throwing Knives)--and the buff to Hell Ivy kicking in. I'm still not really comfortable with that thing causing Stop, but if other people are fine with it....
Regardless, it was nice to see a longbow user get to take good advantage of the range increase due to height, even if Otabo's team has already lost the round by that point.
Aside from Angelus vs. AeroGP, I look forward to Round 2. Thanks again, Barren.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on December 27, 2012, 05:19:28 pm
This was a simple timing issue. All the monks went first, and all the wizards went second and nuked the whole team. That's pretty much it.
Honestly, there was little doubt Raven would win this, nor was there any surprise from me that this was going to be anything but quick. NinjaWeazel unfortunately had made some seriously bad choices in designing this team. Just because Priests have a decent PA, doesn't mean it's actually any good, or that one should use it.
I think one of the biggest flaws in Otabo's team was no Raise 2. Fairy and Wish just simply weren't cutting it. Otherwise, I think Otabo could have won this.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 27, 2012, 06:58:37 pm
Why does ANYONE every expect any team I make to "win quickly" and/or "do a lot of damage"? Don't you like, all know by now that's the exact opposite of everything every team I've ever made has ever done?
Geez, lol.
GGz Mr. Weazel.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 28, 2012, 02:16:05 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block A - Taichii vs DomieV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZkS9j8Rsho&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block A - Vigilanti vs Jumza (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gy6aENZYEs&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block A - Celdia vs VireBlaze (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjczvjLdQGU&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Taichii on December 28, 2012, 04:34:20 pm
ow man XD domie just wrecked havoc on my team hahahaha... they out tanked my sandbagging skillz Orz
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 28, 2012, 05:02:03 pm
Yeah Super tanks were super tanky no surprise there, I'd run Them vs Several scholar teams and without break or sing support its not possible for Lore skills to overcome their evasion/HP enough to put down their Rezzer and as long as he has MP his team can continuously 1 shot any Scholar build Via Balance
[balance rant] All dance skills are currently useless. There exists no situation in which a dancer using any dance will provide them with a preferable tactical position than where they would be if they passed their turn and saved 40CT toward their next turn to do something with their secondary or attacked . Its a Good thing Dancers have great skills otherwise we'd be in the same boat as Vanilla Mediators [/balance rant] Glass Cannon Summoners outranged and out AOE'd Glass Cannon Dancers, Witch Hunt Bought the Dancers a couple turns but Nameless dance was Useless dance like always.
60% instant death >>>> team with no hard rez. Plus if you're running melee without Battleboots and teleport/fly you can pretty much gaurantee your opponents are going to attempt to hit you at least 2 or 3 times before you reach a good target. Nedless to say I was not surprised at the outcome.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on December 28, 2012, 05:48:51 pm
Paladins weathered the early storm and eventually got in range.
Dancers rushed forward and got greeted by some powerful magic. Dancers got lucky that round 2 was on a small map and Earth Slash got abused. Unfortunately, their luck ran out in round 3.
Not enough DPS from the Samurais and the Squires had multiple ways of doing damage.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 28, 2012, 07:21:18 pm
(Well, that was quicker than I expected.)
Damn, I had wanted to get a couple of things up before Round 2 started. I suppose that's what I get for being so damn slow about everything.
At the beginning, even with the unnecessary charge forward by the Scholars, Taichii looked like he was going to win, at least until the first fatal Balance happened. As with most of the other teams that fought him, I'd argue that Taichii ultimately lost because he couldn't get around the M-EV after people on his side started dropping, as evidenced by how many times that Cyclops alone ended up getting guarded. That redirect with Bio 2 in the second round didn't exactly help either, especially since that Scholar (probably) wouldn't have died from the Ice Brand Paladin even if Ice 2 had gone off.
Speaking of Ice Brand Paladin, I'm still unimpressed by that change from Chaos Blade, but at least it didn't screw over DomieV this time.
And thus Jumza's perfect streak is tarnished, though not so easily. He probably could have won if the Don't Moved Dancer had Slow Dance or even Last Dance instead of Nameless Dance since the only thing really helps him from that the most consistently only the occasional Oil; well, that and if that Dancer had some means of offense beyond Talk Skill only to delay the inevitable instead of possibly actually allowing her to fight back.
He would have of course won quickly easily if those two Summoners didn't have Absorb MP, but considering that using Absorb MP is increasingly common on mages for reasons that have very little to do with Witch Hunt...yeah.
I can't say I'm surprised, if only because of VireBlaze's aforementioned lack of AoE, the crossbow Samurai having way too little Brave, lack of revival and lack of distance attacking. Admittedly, I was a bit surprised by the amount of damage the Koutetsu Knife Samurai's could hit for when they aren't almost utterly walled by Dark Absorption and Celdia getting so "lucky" with Death even if 56% odds are good for the thing.
Otherwise, things went as expected and missing Revive twice in a row only sped things up.
Thanks Barren.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on December 31, 2012, 05:02:20 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block B - Eternal vs reinoe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59vDwPA4N8&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block B - Dokurider vs Reks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1T4eKEnHNM&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block B - The Damned vs Toshiko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AlgeEEo_Ik&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Angel on December 31, 2012, 05:26:00 pm
Holy crap, I am surprised at that one. My AI was totally derping out in round 3, but still managed to win. Way surprised. GG
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on December 31, 2012, 06:44:33 pm
Eternal vs Reione
A brutal 1 sided slaughter it almost seemed Eternal's team was specifically made to destroy Reione's. Magic attack UP + elemental Stregnthen + Pilgrimage = tons and tons of pain for anyone not stacking on the magic defense. I'm starting to think that the things really need to be subject to Magic Evade
Dokurider Vs Reks
A fast team with status recovery and self resurection beat a slow team with no status recovery or resurection at all, i'm sure nobody is surprised at the outcome
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on December 31, 2012, 07:47:31 pm
(Well, that went exactly as planned and due to having...issues with Youtube, I'll comment there later.)
I'd say something melodramatic like "And thus began the inevitable downfall of Faith-based magick", but that gives too much of an implication that most Faith-based magick had a high place to fall from in the first place.
Thanks for the videos regardless, Barren.
Yeah...I don't think anyone expect reinoe's Oracle team to beat Eternal's team due to the fact that spellguns are overpowered even against non-mages. Against mages, the only way to not, at the very most, be 2HKO'd by those damn things is either to wear White Robe, have Projectile Guard or have Magic Defend Up AND Shell on. Otherwise, you die. Painfully. Repeatedly.
That said, commenting on the actual "match", it says something that I am surprised to see the Sleep spell actually used--even knowing that reinoe's team had it already--and see it hit. ...So, of course, the AI chose to target a unit that already had Zodiac locked on to it. Hurray. A spell that's already obviated by Mimic Daravon gets undermined even further....
Other than that, not really much to say since it was basically a sandbag-fest on reinoe's side since he had no choice what with getting shot in the face at 100% accuracy. I suppose it's nice to see that Short Edge's Oil actually works, even if Eternal has been getting unlucky with it thus far.
*expects to get to Oil'd by every single Short Edge hit*
Yeah...basically, Reks got screwed over by evasion and Charm, especially in the second round where him not being able to seal the deal fast enough ended up losing him that round and the match. Having no statuses of his own sans Silf and getting stuck Singing at the wrong times, especially with the AI's stupidity towards Nameless Song, only added to that.
Honestly, I expected losing this as a possibility despite Toshiko's team being a "joke" team and female Ninja being "weaker" in terms of attack.
Time Mage's shitty HP + being a faster mage + being even faster than usual since I can't go the opposite route + even mage AI being stupid about charging forward into known movement range of enemies = getting mid-charged a lot by a team of full of a job that's slightly faster than average, making Countdown quite a bit less useful + running into M-EV + getting put sleep by fucking Mimic Daravon yet again = loss.
So...yeah. Not surprised at all, though I expected it might be possible to have beaten Toshiko since she's not even abusing Kagesougi.
Regardless, GG.
My next round match should be...interesting. At the very least, it seems like it will be more even than getting shot repeatedly by Eternal's team.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on December 31, 2012, 08:13:10 pm
Well nothing happened that I didn't expect. Did you know I forgot to put Murasame on my Draw Out Oracle? Yeah, if it wasn't obvious in the beginning, my team could stand many many revisions.
EDIT: Oh and yeah, one of the Oracles was wearing White Robe, but the damage from the Spell Guns was so massive that Barren didn't really notice.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on December 31, 2012, 08:41:27 pm
Massive damage from the magic guns and the Oracles couldn't recover.
Thieves did their thing and the Bards just couldn't inflict enough damage.
Time Mages inflicted enough statuses/damage to win round one. Round two/three were much different as the Ninjas got in range and the Time Mages couldn't withstand the onslaught.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Reks on January 01, 2013, 12:05:19 am
Looks like I was Kuja and Doku was Zidane in this play. Gg, Doku!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Eternal on January 01, 2013, 08:03:48 pm
I'm almost amazed at how well my Mediators are doing. Go go Mediators!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 01, 2013, 09:42:01 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block C - Dol vs Avalanche (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-G6Wvmpe5I&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block C - Pride vs TrueLight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTSaPrc9jg4&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block C - Angelus vs AeroGP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4U3g1L5_g&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on January 01, 2013, 10:46:46 pm
Round 1=15 minutes. Round 2=3 minutes. Even though Dol was perfectly equipped to survive Avalanche's onslaught with his magical tank Samurai, it still wasn't enough to survive. I wouldn't want to meet up with those Geomancers in a dark alley.
Well I definitely wouldn't have expected the Priests to be 0-2 at this point. But the offensive power of the Ninja's proved to be too much for Pride's Sandbag potential. Particularly powerful is the Kagesougi hitting to cause Silence.
Angelus didn't have a prayer. During Round 2, when AeroGP was backed into a corner and was getting hammered by AoE, it still wasn't close. Some teams just have inherent weaknesses against other teams. Oh and let's not forget massive magical gun damage. Near the end of the match the chemists were able to one-shot the Scholars.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 02, 2013, 12:29:26 am
Quite the back and forth match. Samurais got separated and PA spent too many turns healing himself instead of going on the attack.
Scholars couldn't inflict enough damage with Lore due to Auto Potion. It was only a matter of time until the Chemists got in range.
Pokemon music FTW. I'm quite surprised my Ninjas dodged that many Holys. Priests just didn't have enough HP to survive Kagesougi and the speed advantage helped me out in the end. GG Pride.
Thanks for the quick videos Barren.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 02, 2013, 04:56:55 pm
(Since I'm still not commenting on Youtube just yet, I'll just comment here before I forgot.)
Outside of the first match, these went about how I expected. Thanks for the quick videos Barren as TrueLight said. Given how fast you've been uploading this, I for some reason thought we were at Block D of Round 2 already:
To be honest, I still barely pay attention to Zodiac compatibility between units on teams unless it's pointed out, even if it's my team fighting (read: getting its ass kicked by) someone else. In this instance, however, it was instantly obvious that the Geomancers had best with the male Samurai, which is what lost Dol the match ultimately.
Well, it was more that ultimately that Samurai ended up being far more concerned with Nursing and Iron Will himself. This even though the former didn't really help him as it didn't really against AeroGP's team, especially since he kept dying anyway. (As an aside, I still find it quite amusing that Paladin's tremendous healing capabilities usually backfire since a Chivalry tends to baby itself unless its using Grand Cross, especially as how much the AI whores Defending status.)
I suppose it helps that, like formerdeathcorps' Monk team, I didn't notice until just now that Dol's teams completely lacks any M-EV, which normally would be fine given the Save reactions and amount of resurrection & healing. But here it just allowed the already damaging Geomancers to have free reign with their AoE and for the male Samurai to not pull his weight.
*foregoes commenting on the disgusting amount of HP Murasame healed for on both sides*
The first round was a rather nice back and forth though, even if Avalanche's team was never really in danger of losing it. The second was just...an avalanche of AoE.
...Yeah. This was basically like my match versus Toshiko only with more damage being thrown around by both sides and we all now how that match ended. With TrueLight actually "abusing" Kagesougi unlike Toshiko...yeah. Unsurprising.
Amusing, this was still relatively even though despite Pride's only chance of winning hinging on his Holy spells not getting dodged repeatedly as they did. I say that because it was more of a 3v3 than 4v4 since both Pride's lead Draw Out Priest and TrueLight's sole kunoichi were pretty useless here and continued to not really pull their weight. It's just Mai Shiranui's team ended up being the one to win; she at least got off a win-more Climhazzard end for a lot though, so having two Platina Daggers finally "paid off".
I really don't know why I would take nearly as long as AeroGP's match versus Dol given how much damage spellguns do. I guess I just expected Auto Potion to trigger less or for there to be more obstacles in the way on that actually meant something.
Silly me.
Silly spellguns.
Silly rabbit.
Hmmm...if we're to Block D of Round 2 already, then there's something I need to get prepared by the next time I comment....
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 03, 2013, 07:43:14 am
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block C - Pride vs TrueLight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTSaPrc9jg4&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block C - Angelus vs AeroGP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4U3g1L5_g&feature=youtu.be)
The first map could have been different when "Ma" or "Pa" launched just one offensive move
Not much to say other than Magic Guns are way to strong in my opinion
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 03, 2013, 02:47:11 pm
well they're being used by Magic attack up, elemental boosted units with 100 faith, Under similarly optimized conditions a physical damage dealer would be topping 550 damage per strike, the problem however isn't its attack power but its 100% accuracy.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 04, 2013, 02:10:09 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block D - CT5Holy vs RavenOfRazgriz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-IwYh9dYAo&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block D - NinjaWeazel vs Malroth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFg8pZxknGo&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 2 Block D - Otabo vs formerdeathcorps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UC8HCK9c88&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Angelus on January 04, 2013, 03:41:25 pm
definitely those magic guns were the weakness against my team. gg aerogp, hopefully you'll do well in this tourney but you have the odds against you
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 04, 2013, 04:53:27 pm
ct5 holy vs Raven
Completely unexpected outcome thanks to sleep procs way to go black mages
Ninjaweasel Vs Me
I was faster and I had better AOE so most of his units went down quick, The paladin wannabe was fairly robust but all he did was spam Nurse to heal himself
Otabo Vs Former Death corps
Very very close match that could have swung either way on the whims of a few % in the RNG but eventually those geo's got luckier than the monks
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 04, 2013, 05:55:22 pm
Lancers couldn't withstand the AOE and they never really could put down the Wizards for good. I thought Raven was going to win round 1 once that Undead Lancer resurrected, but the Wizards made sure that there was no comeback.
Priests were stuck sandbagging for most of the match while the Archers continued to snipe them down.
Those Don't Move procs really helped Otabo in his comeback. There were good uses of Fairy as the Geomancers died right next to each other.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 04, 2013, 11:32:41 pm
(Okay, good. I finally managed to upload videos to Youtube, so you can take a bit of a break this weekend with the round ended...if you want to.)
And with Block D over, this means that Round 2 is over already.
This means that I finally got off my ass and "finished" what TrueLight started when it came to counting what was used, partly to sate my own curiosity of course. This took quite a bit of time, but it should be mostly accurate. I'll double check after I annotate the Youtube videos, which probably won't finish until (well) after midnight; this will allow me to take a bit of a break from staring at this for possibly another hour.
KNIVES Throwing Knife - 0 Dual Cutters - 1 Repel Knife - N/A [Unused because not working as should.] Mage Masher - 1 Platina Dagger - 2 Main Gauche - 1 Orichalcum - 2 Katar - 1 Air Knife - 0
CROSSBOWS Bow Gun - N/A [Unused because no working as should.] Night Killer - 0 Silencer - 0 [Has yet to be used. Ever.] Poison Bow - 1 Hunting Bow - 0 Gastrafitis - 3
HATS Green Beret - 11 Twist Headband - 6 [Includes Taichii's 2 Units despite their having no use for PA at all] Holy Miter - 11 Black Hood - 6 Golden Hairpin - 24 Flash Hat - 2 Thief Hat - 17
HEADBANDS Focus Band - 2 Choice Band - 0 Chakra Band - 2
For the "As Primary" count, I'm only counting Primaries where at least one actual skill was purchased. Otherwise, the count for all of them would obviously be multiples of 4 and always equal to the amount of units of said class in this tournament. The same applies for "As Secondary", minus that being equal in distribution to number and type of Primary units of course.
SING/SONG/BARDSONG (As Primary: 2; As Secondary: 2) Angel Song - 3 Life Song - 4 Battle Song - 2 Magic Song - 2 Cheer Song - 1 Nameless Song - 0 Last Song - 0
Hunh. I hadn't noticed that two of Raven's units are also vulnerable to Lightning, which is what ended up screwing him over, at least in the second round. It's rather telling that even with Setiemson (?), the Lancer still took that much damage. Other than, Mimic Daravon screwed him over rather extremely, especially considering how well the first part of round 1 was going with him those spell redirects.
Still, the first round was an excellent back and forth.
Really nothing to say here except that it was interesting to see one of the Archer's focus on Don't Move so much in the first round. It's nice to see that get more use.
Also, I must admit that I find it amusing to realize that, IIRC, pretty much every time the Izlude map has come up, there's always been at least one Archer around to ruthlessly exploit the layout of the archs.
This was extremely close since both teams are quite strong and basically, as Malroth said, was determined by "luck", especially in that first round. A 414 damage Critical hit Earth Slash? Geez.
One way or the other, it's a thing Carve Model got changed to Don't Move. The third round was rather amusing in general towards the end with people getting slaughtered back and forth. Never thought I'd see the day where Monks shot so many arrows.
Quote from: Malroth on January 03, 2013, 02:47:11 pm well they're being used by Magic attack up, elemental boosted units with 100 faith, Under similarly optimized conditions a physical damage dealer would be topping 550 damage per strike, the problem however isn't its attack power but its 100% accuracy.
The 100% accuracy is indeed a problem, but it's only part of the problem. Even if more "extreme" damage set-ups can do more damage (and it's not like Spellguns can't do more damage than they're currently already doing), those set-ups almost always sacrifice evasion and sometime even a good deal of HP (and MP) to make it work. Spellguns don't really have to do that, especially in the case of Archers.
I still don't understand why Archers get Shields or, at the very least, why all (spell)Guns aren't Forced Two Hands. It's part of the reason that Longbows haven't seen much use until recently.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 07, 2013, 12:23:47 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block A - VireBlaze vs DomieV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aH6qANGeqs&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block A - Jumza vs Taichii (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=644lkl7B6qU&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block A - Celdia vs Vigilanti (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phk8EPA00GU&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 07, 2013, 01:00:38 pm
very equal Teams. The dmg. of the 2 crossbow wielding samurais was a bit low, i think crossbows dont benefit from the inate two hands of the samurais do they? Other than that Samurais did very well
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 07, 2013, 03:18:01 pm
Okay I'm going to comment on these videos as I watch them because I always forget the details of the fight as soon as it happens, even of my own matches.
Despite Vireblaze's poor healing ability, especially for healing statuses, his ability to fight off Slow, successful use of HP Restore, high damage output thanks to the inner play of self strengthening, Two Hands and Warpath, and most decisively, bad compat to prevent mass slowing, allowed him cut down those doughy Paladins and score his first victory.
Just before that fatal Nameless Dance went off, I was just wondering to myself if Taichii had Silence protection. Slow, powerful Earth Slashs on weak Scholars, and no Silence protection allowed Jumza to win
Complete slugfest with Celdia coming out on top. Not much else to say.
very equal Teams. The dmg. of the 2 crossbow wielding samurais was a bit low, i think crossbows dont benefit from the inate two hands of the samurais do they? Other than that Samurais did very well
It does not. If Vireblaze wanted ranged attacks, there's nothing wrong with Kiku.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Jumza on January 07, 2013, 07:21:41 pm
Nameless Dance has become Awesome Dance, especially with little to no status protection. As Dokurider already mentioned, that's pretty much what won me the match.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 07, 2013, 07:43:00 pm
That was pretty much the best possible case for nameless dance (a all caster squad with no silence protection) and it still was barely useful
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 07, 2013, 07:45:01 pm
Samurais eventually reached 100 Brave with Warpath and they did enough damage to put pressure on the Paladins. It was unfortunate that the Item-Bot Paladin went down early in round 2 and he never got revived. Poor guy.
Lots of damage from Earth Slash and Titan. The Oil procs made sure the targets didn't survive. Very timely statuses from Nameless Dance.
The RNG was really messed up in this one. The Squires just did the things needed to ensure the victory.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Taichii on January 07, 2013, 10:23:57 pm
i was worrying about berserk that i forgot to add esuna or some silence imunity concerning that my team is an all magic team hahaha XD needs more frog procs Q.Q dang XD GG jumza.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 08, 2013, 07:48:22 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block B - Eternal vs The Damned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPaE_3yJqPM&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block B - Reks vs reinoe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HAdbTKNeco&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block B - Toshiko vs Dokurider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3RrSL2VqnE&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 08, 2013, 08:50:22 pm
Can't honestly say this was a surprise. Low HP Mages versus high damage guns and the mages just didn't have enough defenses against Guns. Not much else can be said.
Reks failed completely to bring any kind of status protection, most notably, Silence. It allowed Reinoe to completely shut down Reks and just toy with the poor Bards. It was like a Torture movie rendered in game form.
And as I predicted, I lost. It seems my team's greatest weakness are teams that as fast or faster that me. As long as they can deal some kind of damage, they can win. There was also some serious luck in play here with Mimic Daravon and Death Sentence. Regardless, you've done well Toshiko. GG
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on January 09, 2013, 12:13:21 am
It's interesting because stylistically, Ninjas and Thieves are very similar. Furthermore these two teams both utilized a slew of status effects to complement their abilities. The ninja's status effects tended to pan out better. After the brutalization my team faced against the Thieves, I thought for sure the Thieves would go undefeated in this round. But still the teams were similar so it's no real shock that the ninja's pulled this out. Curiously none of the ninjas used ninjitsu,the -tons, or kagesougi.
Well the mediators shot people for a ton of damage to the surprise of nobody.
Admittedly I thought I was going to lose round two when the double petrify went off. That's because I thought the Oracle with Item was the one turned to stone. So my team can win but only when everything is absolutely in my favor. Ok I'll take it. I was feeling a bit in the dumps when I realized I mad some errors on my team.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 09, 2013, 04:54:33 am
Please wait for the match with Dol to be uploaded and processed, cause they are always long as hell. thanks for your patience
Fixed.
Sorry Barren, I know long matches arent much fun to cast and compile. The late game setup was the only one I found that let the Samurai have a chance to compete against a variety of teams.
You've done a great job with the tournament though, kudos to you! :)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: FFMaster on January 11, 2013, 07:48:19 pm
Pew pew, pew pew!
Glacier guns!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 11, 2013, 07:57:32 pm
Those Priest took lots of head shots...
Dol sandbags his way to victory. There were timely Bizen Boats and those Samurais accumulated lots of PA/MA
That went better than expected. Ninjas actually dodged some Draw Out in round 1 and the Geomancers couldn't put down my "healers." Unfortunately in rounds 2/3, my luck ran out. Small maps are brutal combined with Draw Out and my team couldn't tank long enough. Bizen Boat puts the dagger on my hopes of a comeback. GG Avalanche.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 11, 2013, 10:56:02 pm
(For some reason I thought were at Block D already. Probably due to how hard I got my ass kicked [as I predicted].)
Hmmm...Dol's match isn't as long as I expected, thankfully. I think that goes doable after the match of DomieV's I recorded yesterday. Ugh. I'll try and have that up tonight.
I'll wait to comment on things until this Round ends as a whole.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 12, 2013, 05:19:20 am
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block C - Avalanche vs TrueLight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEB0IKcHI88&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block C - Dol vs Angelus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Vycp7Tgq0&feature=youtu.be)
i knew exactly what happens before even Watch it. GG Magic Guns
M-Ev and Kagesugi won the first Match. Than after no Elemental status procs Geos got more lucky on round 3
oh 34. min again xD. But totaly worth watching, espeacialy Map 3 was very exciting
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 12, 2013, 09:02:22 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block D - formerdeathcorps vs NinjaWeazel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYxa8ssJrGc&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block D - RavenOfRazgriz vs Malroth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt2rtufjPNc&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 3 Block D - CT5Holy vs Otabo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9ewyZnUx7g&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on January 12, 2013, 09:30:52 pm
Haha, when I saw the match was only 6 minutes, I thought I won for sure, especially after R1. But Salamander + low HP = problem. gg~
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 12, 2013, 10:18:08 pm
My physical attackers had good compat vs his team and my healers had bad compat, a bad combination for him concidering i both outsped him and had more status pressure
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 12, 2013, 10:37:38 pm
FDC just had too much DPS
That poor immortal Lancer. Gunners sniped from a distance and Cover Fire seals the deal.
Well timed Paralyzes really helped Otabo in his comeback.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Otabo on January 12, 2013, 11:14:10 pm
Haha, when I saw the match was only 6 minutes, I thought I won for sure, especially after R1. But Salamander + low HP = problem. gg~
That is exactly how I thought. I was like, "A six minute match - welp, I'm 1-2 now." GG, though.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 13, 2013, 01:42:45 am
(Damn it, I had wanted to wait to comment on Round 3 as a whole until I watched all the matches, but I might forget this while I finally get around to watching Block C.)
Thanks for the videos and everything as always, Barren.
However, I think we may have a significant problem with CT5Holy vs. Otabo's match:
According to Gaignun's map divisions, which I'm only guessing you're going by (since that's what I've been going by for my videos), TERMINATE IS A LARGE MAP. (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8608.0) This when the "tiebreaker" round is supposed to take place on a middle map.
That in and of itself might not be too problematic considering that CT5Holy won on the first Large map but then lost on the second one, but how he lost is also somewhat problematic. He lost largely because Counter Flood Sand Storm proc'd Stop instead of the Berserk it's "supposed" to proc, which his unit would have otherwise blocked due to Reflect Ring. That's not your fault, of course, but that just sits as rather "wrong" to me, especially when combined with the above and the match being rather close.
So...yeah. Not to instigate anything (for the hell of it), but it would nag me if I didn't say anything otherwise.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on January 13, 2013, 02:43:07 am
According to Gaignun's map divisions, which I'm only guessing you're going by (since that's what I've been going by for my videos), TERMINATE IS A LARGE MAP. (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8608.0) This when the "tiebreaker" round is supposed to take place on a middle map.
That in and of itself might not be too problematic considering that CT5Holy won on the first Large map but then lost on the second one, but how he lost is also somewhat problematic. He lost largely because Counter Flood Sand Storm proc'd Stop instead of the Berserk it's "supposed" to proc, which his unit would have otherwise blocked due to Reflect Ring. That's not your fault, of course, but that just sits as rather "wrong" to me, especially when combined with the above and the match being rather close.
There is no problem. I lost because, as I said, Salamander + Elemental easily killed off my low HP units.
Also, Terminate functions kinda like a small or medium map in that the teams reach each other quickly, and honestly it really doesn't matter.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 13, 2013, 11:46:16 pm
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 14, 2013, 03:48:30 am
Otabo has Geomancers, not squires, but thank you for posting the scores so far
Anyone have any predictions going forward in this tournament? Round 4 is very pivotal for anyone who may be in the lead right nor or trying to catch up because 2-1 or 3-0 is not a safe lead by any means
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Reks on January 14, 2013, 03:50:10 am
Well, I'm doomed to fail. So it won't be me.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: FFMaster on January 14, 2013, 04:22:08 am
Never expected Avalanche to make it so far. I've probably underrated Geomancers a bit there.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 14, 2013, 04:28:01 am
Sure thing
BLOCK A Celdia vs Taichii: Sorry Taichii, but Celdia's taking this. Your poor little Scholars are just too frail. It's just going to be a repeat of what happened to Vigilanti
VireBlaze vs Vigilanti: Vilgilanti because Vireblaze's Samurai can't handle the Summoner's AoE.
DomieV vs Jumza: I'm leaning toward Jumza, because Witch Hunt's going to go through those Paladin's MP. But those Dancers are going to have a tough time breaking down those Paladin's with their evade and just being doughy bastards in general.
BLOCK B Reks vs Toshiko: Sorry Reks, Toshiko's gonna take this one. Reks' damage output just isn't good enough or fast enough to stop jupi from midcharging him.
The Damned vs reinoe: Honestly kind of a toss up, but I think the Damned might be able to win if he can repeat what he did to Reks.
Eternal vs Dokurider: ME! MEMEMEMEMEME!
BLOCK C AeroGP vs Avalanche: This is going to be the match to watch. However, I think Avalanche is going to have some trouble surviving those gun shots because of his high Faith.
Dol vs TrueLight: Dol might end up getting overwhelmed by Truelight's ninjas because they're pretty likely to midcharge his Raise 2/Fairys. His MA samurai might be able to keep those ninjas at bay though.
Pride vs Angelus: I think Angelus is going to take this simply because Pride's Priests just can't take a lot of punishment, and Angelus has the range advantage with faster spells.
BLOCK D NinjaWeazel vs Otabo: Otabo wins because his team is just nasty.
CT5Holy vs Malroth: Spellguns vs frail high faith wizards? Can't really say it's going to go CT5's way here.
RavenOfRazgriz vs formerdeathcorps: This'll be a fun fight. I'm favoring that FDC's punches through Raven's teams and keeps them down. It doesn't help that half his team is immune to Kiyomori, the crux of Raven's war machine, and the other half can AoE heal it away, for a net gain in actions.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 14, 2013, 05:22:49 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block A - Celdia vs Taichii (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv90GpoYDM4&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block A - VireBlaze vs Vigilanti (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mk3hrlsyEo&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block A - DomieV vs Jumza (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGEMscn6iA&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 14, 2013, 08:39:21 pm
Celdia vs Taichii
Lethal match that was closer than expected but in the end Celdia's team was faster and had more units capable of onshotting members of the opposing team. Earth absorb was also a big factor in her win since it effectively halved Taichii's offensive options and forced some scholars to skip turns instead of spamming lores.
Vireblaze vs Vigilante
Death and flare are pretty much a hard counter for a team with no Raise 2, Phoenix down + potions don't cut it for healing 1hkos unless you significantly outspeed your opponent
Domie V Vs Jumza
Witch hunt was good, Nameless dance useless like always Both teams ended up with 1 member capable of instantly killing any member of the opponent squad with 3 units forced on full time support duities, but Domie V had much better passive healing and resurection so he survived long enough for Decap to do its work
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 14, 2013, 10:34:34 pm
(I feel like I've forgotten to comment on some of the matches on Youtube still....)
Damn it, we're on to Round 4 already? I'm so slow....
Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to make my match reviews concise for once. Shame...since I can't be concise:
VireBlaze vs. DomieV: I'm actually not sure why I'm that surprised that VireBlaze won here, perhaps because this was the first match where his Koutetsu Samurai actually got both hit people and hit for "full" damage at 100 Brave. Given they both lack AoE outside of Arthur's now-dubious Ice-elemental Southern Cross, I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised; DomieV might have won the first round if Arthur still had his Chaos Blade, but alas. [/nag]
Speaking of Arthur, that series of dodges at the beginning of the first around was rather amusing. I guess he reallly won't allow anyone not named Merlin to take him from behind.
Jumza vs. Taichii: Oh, right. "Concise". Uh, right. This match was basically determined as soon as Nameless Dance inflicted Silence on Taichii, which goes to show that not every mage blocks Silence.
Celdia vs. Vigilanti: Geez, it's like Celdia basically mugged Vigilanti for his luck in a dark alley before this match happened. Pretty much everything that could go wrong for Vigilanti against her did save either team using Death, which is also amusing since they're only two teams with Death and it didn't pop up at all.
Eternal vs. Myself: Not sure why I thought this ass-kicking happened in Round 4. Oh well, better to have it out of the way. Between Mediators being faster than average, having spellguns & Auto Potion, Time Mage's having crappy HP & damage options especially against Auto Potion and my bad luck, I already knew I was going to get mauled. Seriously, I got Oiled three times out of the four that Short Edge didn't just kill the unit and Projectile Guard only worked once, so...yeah. Slaughtered.
Reks vs. reinoe: It was this match that allowed me to realize that Reks's damage overall is surprisingly weak given his usual teams, especially the poor White Magic Bard. I honestly hadn't realized his entire team had 40 Brave/Fury before this match; reinoe's team just decided to be sadistic about that revelation with the overkill status, especially at the end.
Toshiko vs. Dokurider: Admittedly, like with VireBlaze, I was suprised that Toshiko took thisagainst a team I xpected to win. I suppose I shouldn't have been though given that, as I said after she wailed on me, Innate Two Swords is just damn strong even with "inferior" female Ninja. That Ninja have higher than average speed also allowed for Cursed Ring revival to be less of a factor.
AeroGP vs. Pride: High Faith units vs. spellguns. Next.
Avalanche vs. TrueLight: TrueLight being able to win the first round made think it was possible for Avalanche's team to finally lose in his block (against someone that wasn't AeroGP). ...And then Erza quickly proved useless against in subsequent rounds, disproving that.
Dol vs. Angelus: Ugh. Draw Out vs. Lore. Wonderful to see the already ubiquitous Masamune over and over against between repeated Earth Dragons and Shadows Shades. Oh well. At least it wasn't as long as Dol's match against AeroGP and the win was admittedly unexpected yet "earned". I just do without seeing that damn animation again.
formerdeathcorps vs. NinjaWeazel: The latter's team has issues. We've been over this.
RavenofRazgriz vs. Malroth: Raven was pretty screwed off the bat with fighting a spellgun using team since all of them have guns that can hit at least one of his units for double damage. It just happened to be the fiery Blaze Gun here. That first round might have gone a lot differently if whatever Lancer was near the Hawk's Eye Archer has stepped in the way and took that arrow (& its Poison & Oil) for Draco Sintara; I'm pretty sure that's possible, but then again, it was a longbow and that unit would have been two panels away.... Regardless, it probably won't have changed much for Raven in the subsequent times since his team needs time to set-up, which it can't do against 100% accurate attacks.
CT5Holy vs. Otabo: Yeah. This was close despite the Salamanders of the second and third rounds. I still wonder what would have happened if Sand Storm was procing Berserk instead of Stop still in general since it also came up in TrueLight's fight in this Round against Avalanche....
And for predictions since I've yet to watch the last videos of Block A:
Celdia vs. Taichii: Although it's good for Taichii to be able to fight a team that doesn't absorb Dark and that has relatively high Faith overall, I see Celdia winning this. If only because she hits harder over all, Death Wish's Tornado doesn't "work" on half of her units, Yunita & Aire have Throw Stone and Brandt & Jusqua have PA Save, which loves Lore. It's still possible for Taichii to win rather than being a "wash", but he's going need to get lucky with Bio 2s causing Frog and/or Demi 2 hitting multiple people & K.O.ing them or sending them into Critical. Winner: Celdia.
Vireblaze vs. Vigilanti: This match, on the other hand, is a "wash". Not only do none of VireBlaze's units have AoE, but they also all lack none M-EV and distance aside from the weak crossbow-using Samurai. On top of that, half of his team can't even really touch Belgemine due to her Dark Absorb. So...yeah. Vigilanti goes 3-1 instead of 4-0 after Celdia stole all his luck last round since he doesn't need luck here. Winner: Vigilanti.
DomieV vs. Jumza: This is the closest round of the Block, but I ultimately see Jumza taking it, partly for reasons that Dokurider pointed out about Witch Hunt. With Witch Hunt and Move-MP UP not really countering it with Knight's paltry MP supply, George the Balance Paladin becomes utterly toothless, so this is essentially a 3v3. I say that because while I expect Nameless Dance to make a difference, if not the difference after de-fanging George, through Slow & Oil, she usually ends up useless in quicker matches and I expect this to be the longest match of the Block, which is why it's possible DomieV for to still win. Winner: Jumza.
Reks vs. Toshiko: Toshiko's probably winning this since Reks's team has surprisingly large damage problems as it is before the fact that even "joke" Ninja/Kunoichi still hurt enters into things. Additionally, they're faster than him and he's been getting mid-charged as it is. ...Yeah. Dokurider summed this up accurately. Winner: Toshiko.
Myself vs. reinoe: Hmmm...this could go either way, especially since I have such shitty luck. Countdown being effective here will be crucial for me to win since two of reinoe's team has 9 Speed, which means that her Stop can be interrupted. Thankfully, she's immune to Silence, so she's not automatically useless like she was last round or close-to-it like against Toshiko. Still, I don't have any Don't Act protection and I tend to get brutalized when it comes to AoE status anything and Paralyze is easily one of the best spells Oracle has even before Short Charge figures in. Then again, Bleed is actually a threat to this team unlike the other two, even as weak as her Shadow Shade has been.... Honestly, it's kind of a toss-up. I expect this to be the closest match of the tournament, in the sense of who can win at least since I don't expect this will go for very long one way or the other.
All I know is that whoever loses is going to lose not because of damage (right off the bat), but because they got status'd into oblivion. Winner: Statuses.
Eternal vs. Dokurider: This match is rather swingy as well, though here it's due to massive damage and instant status rather than who ends up looking like they got Bad Breath'd like myself vs. reinoe. Eternal has the advantage here though, not just because of Spellguns & Mimic Daravon, but because even if he loses to Dokurider, probably through a combination of Charms and overhand & overhead stabs, Eternal still gets a re-match right away via Tiebreaker. In the tiebreaker, Eternal has the advantage on the long map even more than usual with it being Volcano, so...yeah. Dokurider might win this battle, but it's against him to win the "war" against Eternal.
This, of course, provided Toshiko doesn't fight either one of them again first since it would likely be a three-way tie with Reks probably losing again here. Winner: Eternal (ultimately).
AeroGP vs. Avalanche: AeroGP will probably be Avalanche's only (repeated) loss just because Spellguns and Quickening are that powerful. It doesn't exactly help that Avalanche completely lacks Projectile Guard & White Robes while having extremely high Faith all around. Even if his two units with MA Save have Setiemson, that doesn't stop the two female gunners from picking them off (repeatedly). It also doesn't help that, off the top of my head, all of three of the maps that they're supposed to fight off don't have any "special" or potentially damanging terrain to Counter Flood with, though the female Chemists would likely just heal it away anyway, so....
As with Eternal vs. Dokurider, Avalanche seems also disadvantaged by the fact that he'll likely have to fight AeroGP again for the tiebreaker. Only that in this instance, it's the winner who actually have the advantage (unless he has to fight Dol again first, then we all lose). Winner: AeroGP (ultimately).
Dol vs. TrueLight: A battle between bitter thematic enemies! ...That will probably be decided almost solely by how horribly Kagesougi screws over Dol or doesn't and how ineffectual Erza is again since those two Platina Daggers aren't "cutting" it by themselves, especially against Raise 2. Shrug. I see Dol winning this if only because he has a lot more lasting power. So outside of both his resurrection units going down around the same time, he has a lot more room for error than TrueLight having to depend upon Abandon for him to not go into Critical or Dead. Winner: Dol.
Pride vs. Angelus: Angelus wins this between Pride having high Faith and relying upon non-Short Charge Holy as the backbone of his offense. Normally, non-Short Charge Holy would be fine since his team has shown, even with its problems, that it's absurdly powerful (while still being faster than Flare & Lore). Of course, two of Angelus's units have Short Charge and his team has way more staying power. Similarly, Pride auto-loses the large map because Four-Lore is "wonderful" like that. So goes into the small & medium maps having to win both and worry about getting Quaked to death en masse, especially on the short map, which is probably what's going to happen. This especially since the AI is terrifically stupid about negating its M-EV just to charge a spell it knows it can't get off in time. Winner: Angelus.
NinjaWeazel vs. Otabo: Otabo wins this rather easily because his team is rather strong as it is and NinjaWeazel's team understandably has problems for a newcomer. Enough said. Winner: Otabo.
CT5Holy vs. Malroth: Malroth likely wins this one because Spellguns, CT5Holy's lack of Projectile Guard & White Robes and being the only person to use a Blaze Gun, which means that he can actually shoot all of CT5Holy's team instead of just half of it. This isn't a complete waste just because, depending on who dies on CT5Holy's team, his team might not spend that much time trying to futilely "sandbag" and thus Malroth might get "nuked" or put to sleep by them. Well, if Aegis Shields don't eat Black Magic for breakfast like they usually do. Malroth definitely has the advantage here. Winner: Malroth.
RavenofRazgriz vs. formerdeathcorps: Like Dokurider said, this should make for a fun match. Unlike Dokurider, I'll have to side with Raven here, if only because, like Otabo, formerdeathcorps's team has been getting screwed over (or doing especially stupid things) and I don't expect that to suddenly stop. This especially when half of Raven's team doesn't care about Earth, the other half refuses to remain dead, all of them have shields, Draco Sintara could choose Cheer Song first (or only) & hit with it and fdc's team has less healing than one would "expect".
If formerdeathcorps can manage to flatten Raven off the initial encounter, then he can definitely win, especially since all his units have naturally higher speed than average, so less worry about equipment-based revival biting him in the ass. If he doesn't...then, well, Raven likely wins after a while. At least fdc doesn't have to worry about getting "randomed out" by Meatbone Slash unless his FS Bag Monks decide to be unspeakably dumb and not use Repeating Fist; well, that or Meatbone Slash triggers off Repeating Fist, which, actually, I think it does.... Winner: RavenofRazgriz.
No "probably" about it. Between their good stats, having better than average movement, having access to shields & good equipment options despite "only" two weapon options and making good Draw Out bots when Draw Out's still arguably the best skillset without revival, it isn't too terribly surprising. Given that M-EV is still relatively "rare" (in use) and Chirijiraden hurts on top of all of his teams attacks being instant and having a range of at least 6 when combined with his natural Move...yeah.
*whisper*Revise Geomancer stats and/or Draw Out accordingly.*whisper*
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Otabo on January 15, 2013, 12:11:17 am
QuoteI still wonder what would have happened if Sand Storm was procing Berserk instead of Stop still in general since it also came up in TrueLight's fight in this Round against Avalanche....
Probably the same result. Stop or Berserk would've made that wizard nigh useless regardless.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 15, 2013, 12:34:26 am
(...I forgot what I was going to put in the parenthetical this time.)
Ugh. Youtube is acting up. Again. So I can't comment on anything right now.
Haha, the ending to that first round, especially after Brandt survived at 1 HP and still had Reraise waiting to go off. Other than that, things went as "planned", especially with Death being so...generous.
Hmmm...maybe that thing is fine as it is. ...Nah, it could stand to be cheaper.
I do have to wonder why Brandt (or was it Jusqua) chose to Poison Bow the Death-targeted male Scholar in the third round rather than the female Scholar charging Demi 2 though. It seemed like he was in range....
Again, as predicted. Poor VireBlaze just didn't have anywhere near the damage spread and capability Vigilanti had, so he got walled by something as simple as a Summoner managing to deflect two attacks in a row.
Beyond that, I find it rather appropriate that Otherworld plays while an Undead Summoner kicks someone's ass.
"Yunalesca used Megadeath!"
Hmmm...this didn't go as predicted, though it was the closest match that I expected anyway since it came down to Nameless Dance's fickleness and Titan getting past M-EV, which it never really did.
But...uh, hey. Arthur using an Ice Brand with Kaiser Plate finally paid off. (Barely.)
Oh, right. I was going to chide Celdia jokingly for making it so that every mage team had finally lost by the time last Round ended.
I'm pretty sure that Wizard was one that blocked Berserk because of Reflect Ring, so...yeah.
He probably wouldn't have won from what he said, but between that and TERMINATE technically being a "large" map, it just was/is going to nag me even if everyone else is fine with it.
Pay me no mind as usual.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Celdia on January 15, 2013, 01:50:52 am
Oh, right. I was going to chide Celdia jokingly for making it so that every mage team had finally lost by the time last Round ended.
And you won't hear me complaining about this leading to a rematch with Vigilanti's Summoners. :D Funny thing is, I chose Squires kind of as a joke because I didn't think they'd be terribly effective. I know I'm not going all the way in this but I'm happy they're putting up some solid resistance.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Vigilanti on January 15, 2013, 06:49:12 am
Quote from: Celdia on January 15, 2013, 01:50:52 am And you won't hear me complaining about this leading to a rematch with Vigilanti's Summoners. :D Funny thing is, I chose Squires kind of as a joke because I didn't think they'd be terribly effective. I know I'm not going all the way in this but I'm happy they're putting up some solid resistance.
Somehow with the way this tournament and our block just shaped up, I guess we're facing each other again. You won't get so lucky this time! *shakes his fist*
lol, but seriously good luck Celdia, may the more vicious team emerge victorious
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 15, 2013, 03:59:00 pm
(Well, Youtube seems like it's finally letting people add comments again. Hurray.)
I see that Squire's stigma from vanilla and 1.3 have followed it into ARENA. Shame.
The above aside, I'm not sure why you thought that considering that Squire's easily have the best equipment options after classes that get (Spell) Guns innately and maybe Ninjato. Additionally, they have decent stats and have Concentrate back now, so their only real problem is currently having crappy revival & no Movement and a mediocre skill-set because of it and a few other issues. They still have revival though and pretty much everything that's keeping Basic Skill mediocre sans the movement looks like it's getting fixed going into version 139.
So I suspect, win or lose this whole thing, Squires and Basic Skill will end up seeing a lot more use come version 139.
Yeah, one of the spellgun teams will likely end up winning, especially since Malroth's probably going to go 4-0 in Block D, which seems like it will thus be the only Block without a tie-breaker.
Sad but true.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Celdia on January 15, 2013, 04:05:24 pm
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 15, 2013, 04:15:21 pm
it might not be that clearcut, Unlike the other spellgun using teams i'm not running Magic attack up or pilgramage so my damage output is half theirs so I can't 1shot anything without faith or oil but those wizards can 1 shot me with flares holy and death.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on January 15, 2013, 05:57:43 pm
Yeah but range + faster + M-EV = I lose. Well, it could turn out to be something like against fdc (since his units were also faster than mine), but yeah, M-EV + you have an 11 speed guy and M-EV, M-EV, M-EV goddammit I lose.
All my wizards get 2-shotted. A high damage Cover Fire could possibly even OHKO. I may have a chance, but you're definitely favored.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 15, 2013, 08:11:35 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block B - Reks vs Toshiko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_KB06sJ7n0&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block B - The Damned vs reinoe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1RwqgHSZsg&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block B - Eternal vs Dokurider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT3bvJs66KQ&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Reks on January 15, 2013, 08:44:08 pm
Went as expected, but at least I got a round in. GG Toshiko!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 15, 2013, 09:03:47 pm
Reks deals surprising middling damage considering how high of an MA bards have. Reks' team ultimately doesn't not mesh well with itself. In particular, Lore was a bad choice because not only do bards already have map wide spells, but Reks had to equip absorbing clothes to make Lore work, diminishing their effectiveness. Lore is difficult to use if you don't have tanky units establishing a front line, and Bards are anything but tanky.
Demi 2 + Shower Shade = Critical. It allowed the Damned to easily pressure Reinoe's team and eventually overwhelm his team. Comet shouldn't be underestimated because it's a great finisher and many kinds of units have trouble finishing off weakned units efficiently.
THEY SAID I COULDN'T DO IT. THEY SAID I WAS A BUM. Yeah Cursed Ring is a bitch.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 16, 2013, 02:33:45 am
(Thanks for the celerity, Barren.)
Don't worry, Dokurider. You're still a bum in my heart.
Something amusing I finally noted by the time Reks vs. Toshiko ended: Block B is the only block to have no team with any units that have or are naturally capable of wearing heavy armor. Another helpful explanation for why a "joke" team is beating the hell out of everyone.
Well, despite going 0-4, he at least finally won around despite Beguile's horrible accuracy. It helped that Ninja grouped up. After that though....
I still don't understand why the invisible Ninja suddenly decided to be in love with Weapon Break, especially since, Ancient Sword aside, none of Reks' team's physical offense was remotely threatening. That kind of prolonged things unnecessarily.
Damn, I kinda wanted this to be more even and back and forth. See? Even when I win, I can find something to bitch about.
For instance, I knew that Haste would be pretty much useless yet decided to indulge in it anyway. I wonder if not using that would have allowed me to beat Toshiko....
Anyway, yeah, the first round was pretty much solely decided by me having Shadow Shade on a long map against high Faith units that mostly didn't absorb Dark. While it didn't do terribly much damage due to no real boosts, it basically finished off people that Comet or Demi (2) injured. Hell, reinoe's Oracles didn't even get any status spells off that round due to it and Comet.
The second round was a lot better for him and he probably could have won it had that Stop not hit both characters. The Raise 2 hitting Bleed would have helped, but it probably wouldn't have helped as much as just avoiding getting Stopped en masse since Bleed's guaranteed to come back unlike other two units that got turned Undead.
Oh well....
Good game, reinoe.
Like I said on Youtube, I feel like an idiot for not noticing Terror Blade had Projectile Guard this entire time. It's probably because Eternal is the only person with any type of projectile weapon in our entire division. It didn't really help Terror Blade anyway; Cursed Ring did.
Yeah, Cursed Ring really made the difference here as I expected, though I thought that Mediators having better than average speed would make that a bit less of factor. I suppose it doesn't help that "only" two of Eternal's teams have distance weapons. So the other two have to close in, which makes them vulnerable to revival back-stabbing while also having to deal with the living Thief's "BS" between Speed Ruin, Steal Charm & Talk Skill.
Speaking of Talk Skill, I'm still kinda surprised that Death Sentence was arguably the biggest status factor in that fight despite Oil, Sleep, Charm, Don't Act & Berserk flying around.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Taichii on January 16, 2013, 03:37:42 am
yes doku indeed XD my hp was just way low for them to one hit me haha... GG well congrats mistress celdie~ haha please do beat he others~♥
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on January 16, 2013, 05:46:14 am
I don't envy Barren's decision on how he's going to resolve the three way tie that came out of block B.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 16, 2013, 05:48:17 am
at least its easier than the 6 way tie that was a possibility in block A.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 16, 2013, 07:42:52 am
If there is a three way tie at three wins, one loss, the points earned in the round robin determine final placing.
Here's what I think: Since Eternal did go into Round 4 3-0 while Dokurider and Toshiko were 2-1, What if we use the Tie Breaker Round to make another round robin. Dokurider and Toshiko will square off first then the loser has to face Eternal first then Eternal will face the winner afterwards.
If Eternal wins both times against Dokurider and Toshiko then he'll advance. If Eternal loses both times then he's out then Dokurider and Toshiko will have one final encounter to advance in the semi finals.
To clarify what I'm saying, for example, Dokurider won against Toshiko and Eternal then Dokurider will automatically win the tie breaker. Likewise for Toshiko.
If this sounds complicated or unfair, please let me know of a better solution because I want this to be fair for every one involved in the tie. If I'm missing something in that solution please also let me know. I might have to do it in Block's C & D pending on how it goes
Thank you everyone for enjoying this tournament so far
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 16, 2013, 08:09:17 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block C - AeroGP vs Avalanche (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3uPe402ec&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block C - Dol vs TrueLight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BFIipNfVX8&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block C - Pride vs Angelus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO2seTTpKcM&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 16, 2013, 10:24:22 pm
The speed advantage really helped me out overall and my Ninjas dodged some lethal Draw Outs/sword slashes. There were some separation issues at the beginning of both rounds, but the units got revived in the end. GG Dol, sorry about ruining your semi-final chances :|
As always, thanks for the quick videos Barren. Time to sit back and enjoy the semi-finals.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 17, 2013, 12:12:51 am
(Just as planned. [/Death Note])
Weirdly, the Dol vs. Truelight video cut off as around 8:30~ for me around the first time, but simply re-opening the window fixed the problem.
So Avalanche came closer to beating AeroGP than I thought, which...isn't saying much really. Yeah....
Maybe the tie-breaker's more interesting terrain will allow him to win, especially Volcano's.
Yeah, Kagesougi.... Yeah....
Well, if nothing else, Pride gets the distinction of having the most one-sided match of the entire tournament. "Congrats".
Thanks for the speed of things Barren.
I suppose tomorrow's Block's fight between CT5Holy & Malroth will determine whether ever Block needs a Tie-Breaker or "only" three of them do.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 17, 2013, 01:50:55 am
Honestly this is how i expected all the matches vs the scholar team to go
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 18, 2013, 09:06:53 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block D - NinjaWeazel vs Otabo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuv9Gk97-ZY&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block D - CT5Holy vs Malroth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_INwFBOc9c&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Round 4 Block D - RavenOfRazgriz vs formerdeathcorps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A16lRKNFXSg&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 19, 2013, 12:22:35 am
Those Geomancers just went in and got the job done.
Wizards had their chances but couldn't put down the female Archers. Cover Fire did wonders as the Wizards grouped up. Pretty soon the Magic Gunners started to go on the offense
Those Monks showed some strong DPS. Earth Slash did quite the lethal damage. 520 damage...
With that, the first 4 rounds have been completed. Here is everyone's overall record :
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Eternal on January 19, 2013, 12:42:45 am
Thanks for the videos, Barren!
Good luck to Doku and Jupi in our tiebreaker. I expect to beat Jupi, but not Doku. Oh well, my Mediators put up a decent showing.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 19, 2013, 02:03:11 am
Me vs CT5 Holy
Man those black mages had some scary offense, That first match had me really worried at first but then i really lucked out on the turn order and Rambo got turns exactly when the Black mages were bunched up in the chokepoint. Good timing from breaks and status hits sealed the deal. Honestly I think the deciding factor was that Haste 2 at the beginning.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 20, 2013, 04:24:54 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Tie Breaker Block A - Celdia vs Vigilanti (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeYdki03CZQ&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 20, 2013, 05:29:57 pm
Celdia vs vigalanti tie breaker
another excitingly close match decided by a few CT and % chance of success. Both teams Deal a lot of damage and almost every attack made in that match was garuanteed to 1hko the opponent. In this paticular case more revival beat out shorter charge times but it easily could have swung the other direction.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 20, 2013, 05:49:06 pm
Vigilanti had the bad luck in the first match-up. Celdia had the bad luck in this match-up. I guess it's fair...
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 20, 2013, 11:42:40 pm
(Thanks, Truelight. It's...weird having a much better record than I expected, both comparatively and considering the class I was using. Hmmm....)
Wow. I totally forgot to watch Block D of Round 4 until today because of what a pain in the ass recording has been this weekend. Thankfully, Round as a whole went even more quickly than I expected.
I chuckled immediately upon hearing X-23's theme on the second match. It's such a wonderfully girly song to point it's kind of a guilty pleasure.
Nothing much to say here except that I think that's first time I've even seen Grand Cross catch three enemies at once, much less Blind of all of them.
CT5Holy's Wizards put a much better effort than I expected in the first round, partly because of the starting terrain though, hey, that's totally a legitimate aspect for him. Other than that, yeah...spellguns.
As much as I dislike current spellguns, I must give Malroth respect for actually using magick with his spellguns though. The chance of seeing Archers with any type of non-spellgun-based magick that isn't Draw Out is basically the same as seeing a real unicorn, so good job for making it work.
Yeah, I expected formerdeathcorps's team to hit to hard for Raven's team to be able to "sandbag" against, especially with one of them permanently slowed. I didn't expect formerdeathcorps's Monks to hit that hard, but hey, crits happen. Usually, they happen to me though, but I'm not going to complain that they didn't this time. Still, 520? Geez.
That means that Block D ends as the only without a tie-breaker, as I expected. Speaking of expectations, aside from Jumza vs. DomieV and technically my ultimate predictions, everything more or less went "just as planned".
Speaking of that which can be predicted, the first tie-breaker doesn't fall into such a pattern.
Having just watched this, I still can't get over the fact that literally every Death spell hit. This despite all of Belgemine's having only a 49% chance of hitting. Then again, it seems like Belgemine personally stole Vigilanti's luck back between those Deaths, "dodging" a 92% Raise 2 and hitting with that 55% Frog the first time around.
Still, it's not like Celdia went quietly into the night or anything. I literally looked away from the match for 30 seconds during Round 2 because I'm currently editing videos still and Celdia murdered three Summoners in less time than that. So, yeah. Despite Squires having some issues (not like Summoners don't), you did well, Celdia.
It's just that Vigilanti's Summoners did better, this time, which makes him the only mage user to get out of a block.
Congrats to Celdia & Vigilanti for making it this far in the first place. As always, thanks Barren.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 21, 2013, 01:56:25 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Tie Breaker Block B - Dokurider vs Toshiko vs Eternal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N0Q7uxo9x8&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 21, 2013, 02:10:34 pm
Yeah that could have been alot uglier than it was.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Vigilanti on January 21, 2013, 05:52:13 pm
You know I got to say the summoner squad is a lot more effective than I would give them credit for. Especially since they do have HP issues. but still I'm happy with my performance so far considering my history of bad performances in tourneys lol.
That tie breaker match is one of my favs so far. Celdia, you put up a good fight in this one. GG, it was a fun match
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 21, 2013, 06:09:41 pm
Ya legs shakin yet, cowboy?
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 21, 2013, 06:45:03 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Tie Breaker Block C - AeroGP vs Avalanche (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmu6yHd4rOE&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 21, 2013, 08:17:40 pm
Thanks to charm, Dokurider was able to buy some time until the undead Thieves resurrected and finished the job. Eternal then finished off Toshiko with the power of the magic guns. Eternal got off to a good start against Dokurider, but then charm really screwed him over.
Lava Ball FTW. It's been awhile since I've seen Lava Ball and the dead procs really helped out Avalanche in round 1. The Chemists regrouped in round 2 and just basically used their range advantage to snipe down the Geomancers. The missed Raise 2 sealed Avalanche's comeback chance in round 3.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 21, 2013, 08:43:46 pm
(Tiebreakers over already? Geez. Thanks, Barren.)
Ugh. I'm such an idiot for getting the tiebreaker maps mixed up. I don't know why I thought that Dokurider and the others from my Block were fighting at Volcano. I really need to focus better....
As I said on Youtube, finally, the idea of a threesome that I can get behind, especially since it made this go way quicker than I thought it would. Not much to say otherwise except that Toshiko mainly lost because she didn't get as luck with Talk Skill this time, at least when it came to Death Sentences and especially against Eternal. That was also the not insignificant factor of Charm actually screwing people over for Dokurider this time around, though I'm still a bit surprised that Death Sentence was overall, if only barely, a bigger factor than Charm was in his wins.
So it would seem that I was ultimately wrong about Eternal winning that Block, partly because of misreading the maps.
I wasn't wrong here though. The only thing that was really surprising was how often Lava Ball killed. I mean, seriously, I think this match had the first instance of Lava Ball ever instant killing in ARENA or, at best, only the second ever instance. ...And then it happened twice more within the span of about three minutes.
The hell is up with all the instant death in this tournament? Honestly, I'm kinda surprised Odin hasn't instant-killed someone yet.
Anyway, Avalanche might have been able to win in the third round if Raise 2 hadn't missed, but now we'll never know. Oh well.
I look forward to Block A vs. Block B more than Block C vs. Block D, but that's because, again, spellguns.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Gaignun on January 22, 2013, 06:09:18 am
Wizards had a good run. If one wizard had Projectile Guard and all others had less than 70 faith, Shell, or White Robes, I bet CT5Holy would have won.
Nice work, CT5Holy. You didn't do so bad, after all.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 22, 2013, 08:40:39 am
With the semi finals upon us now it's time to analyze the top four teams in the SCC AI Tournament right now and how they managed to get to this point.
His summoner team without question is pretty strong with some minor issues because of the fact that this mage team can cover a lot of ground with their AoE attacks such as Lich, Cyclops and Odin. Of course Flare being their strongest attack, this team seemingly can't go wrong on offense. However they do have low HP and because of them being a high faith team any opponent that can get any OHKO in can put them under pressure.
But we have seen that Vigilanti's sandbag power had been effective with his fairy and raise 2. Not to mention that his undead summoner had been the key unit per say for his team because of the fact that she's the fastest on the team and that her death and frog spells are potential methods for convincing tide turners that can lead to victory. It's weakness I would think be that if it went up against a physical heavy team with mid to high move then they are in trouble because they cannot withstand powerful attacks up close. the further away these summoners are the better off they are.
Vigilanti's chances to win are good but not great overall because his opponent Dokurider has several tricks up his sleeve with his thieves two of them being undead and talk skill and punch art both inflicting death sentence can dismantle these summoners one by one. But we will have to see. Good luck Vigilanti.
His team of thieves are indeed cunning for the most part. The combination of speed, power and status allowed him to gain several advantages over his opponents. The thief team also has been in predicaments where they seemed to be on the verge of losing but his team has certainly proven that all it takes is one move to turn the whole match around like charm for instance and swing the momentum back in his favor. And with the record he has right now I expect his team to have little trouble advancing further.
However, the one flaw in his team would be the RNG. Let's face it, it likes to be fickle at times. Any false move on his part could cost him victory. Talk skill is another roll-the-dice type tactic where he's banking on them to hit. If they don't then at the right moment, he's very likely to lose. But otherwise I like his chances to win from here on out. Good luck Dokurider.
Here's a veteran that knows how make the best out of the classes he picks, or tries to anyways, but certainly did a effective job making chemist killers. The combination of magic guns + 108 gems + magic attack up + pilgrimage = over 250 magic projectile damage instantly. Simple as that. His team also has the speed advantage and has several means of healing including using magic guns themselves as healing. Aero has done a great job picking off opponent after opponent with guns. Simple philosophy: "Just stay back and take pot shots all day."
A couple of issues with this team however is first off, this team is vulnerable to projectile guard which we have seen in his encounter with Dol. Second there are setups that can withstand gun shots no matter how powerful they are (and we've only really seen that with again; his match with Dol). And last but not least, while they do have masamune and quickening to accelerate the speed advantage, he doesn't have reraise or any means of reraise which means once his chemists drop, it'll eventually become very hard to stay alive with their death clock going faster than normal.
My feelings on Aero's chances is at least above average because considering his opponent in the second semi final round while similar in some ways, is a lot more versatile than any other team in this tournament. Good luck AeroGP.
This archer team here while looks kind of silly on paper actually turned out to be a lot better than I'm sure some people thought; except for Malroth because he knew that this would be the setup that would work well for him. His archers are enough means of attacking and healing. Some of its strengths would be the use of haste 2 and cover fire because you can haste the entire squad and have cover fire do highest amount of damage it can (assuming that the RNG is being nice to him).
His ways of resurrection is also note worthy because his team runs best compat between the guys and girls because raise 2 and demi heals are very accurate which allows him to survive most onslaughts. Again some issues would be going up against a team with projectile guard and sometimes cover fire doing lower damage than it should. Or even blocking an element such as fire or ice. Plus also going up against teams that have pilgrimage can also be troublesome for his archers unless he can KO them quickly.
But otherwise considering his record, his team shouldn't have too many issues going further into the tournament. One last thing to note is his item bot archer can also can fight off undead units that blocks arrows or fire so he's not coming to any fight unarmed. Good luck Malroth.
It's anybody's guess but if I had to pick a winner in this tournament the favorite to me is Malroth. I might be right, I might be wrong but I do hope everyone enjoys the rest of the tournament. Thank you all for watching and again best of luck to the final 4 participants!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 22, 2013, 04:17:16 pm
More than half my damage was done by non evadable physical attacks neither white robe nor projectile guard would have affected the outcome much (although defensive up or auto protect might have)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on January 22, 2013, 09:15:02 pm
Heh, I suppose, Gaignun. M-EV didn't actually do much to hinder me if memory serves. That said, looking at my team again, why do I have a Santa Outfit instead of a White Robe? I don't have any Wind or Ice absorb shenanigans, although it is anti-Glacier Gun. Then again, that just means the rest of my team gets shot by Glacier Gunners, which is definitely worse.
I think the main issue was that Archers + Haste are way faster than my Wizards. That, and I could never pick off the crucial White Magic Archer.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 23, 2013, 05:35:33 pm
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Semi Final 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9kxm2fw-A0&feature=youtu.be)
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Semi Final 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EfSy0ID-zY&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Vigilanti on January 23, 2013, 06:10:50 pm
FUCK!!! there goes my chances to win! just when I was starting to get lucky. But seriously man, you played hard Doku and you won. I'm just thankful to making it this far. GG Dokurider.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 23, 2013, 06:21:01 pm
You did very well, Vigilante. I was honestly worried that I'd lose because of your high damage AoE, and powerful single target spells, especially Flare and Frog. However, I just have to knock those Spellgunners down a peg.
I figured that Aero would win simply this was going to be a battle of who's better with the gun and Aero was quicker with the trigger and he simply had more gun. Aero was always able to get the first shots off and never let up. Meanwhile, Malroth had trouble damaging Aero altogether because of Santa Outfit and Flash Hats. Add in Quickening and Masamune and Malroth never really had a chance.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 23, 2013, 06:24:15 pm
Semifinal match 2
4 hits in a row with no 65% autopotion, 4 minimum damage cover fires in a row, 95% chance raise 2 missing and multiple crits from the female chemists. RNG hax ftw
Not to say aero diddn't have an incredible team just that the RNG skewing out a .05% worst case scenario when i'm fighting one of the strongest teams out there really was a kick in the nuts.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 23, 2013, 07:41:58 pm
Vigilanti was on the verge of winning round 2, but then those undead Thieves just had to get back up right before a 24% Death hit. Talk about timing. I'm also surprised that those Thieves actually did something useful instead of just hiding in a corner when they were in critical.
RNG was against Malroth this entire match. Cover Fire could have made a difference, but too many times did it do minimum damage.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: CT5Holy on January 23, 2013, 08:00:06 pm
Oof, Vigilante was one Shiva away from sending it to round 3. I just checked though, and unfortunately Shiva was on the same Summoner with Flare. Doku's high evasion Thieves bought him enough time for the undead ones to come back, and Summoners' low HP allowed the undead Thief in critical to repeatedly OHKO the Summoner.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on January 23, 2013, 09:49:52 pm
AeroGP wins the finals. Dokurider has no way of mitigating the spellgun damage. He has one unit with Projectile Guard but it's an undead unit so he'll get eaten alive by the Chemist's potions.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 24, 2013, 03:59:22 am
AeroGP wins the finals, everything else would be a huge suprise for me. His team has proven that he can beat even the greatest teams (like mine xD)- Which makes me a litle disappointed, since after all my Team could stil be the second beast Team of this Tournament.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 24, 2013, 09:23:44 am
I think Dokurider has a chance if the female Thief lands in some timely Talk Skill. Those undead Thieves are going to spend much of the match dead and it's pretty much up to the other 2 Thieves to hold out until they revive. Let's see what the RNG has in store for these 2...
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 24, 2013, 01:30:12 pm
Nobody believes in me whyyyyyy?
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 24, 2013, 02:15:19 pm
Dont take it personal. Its just a matter of missing Spellguns. : )
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 24, 2013, 07:46:42 pm
The end is here!!!
FFT Arena SCC AI Tournament Finals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztbMePmSQTk&feature=youtu.be)
I hope everyone enjoyed this tournament! Thank you very much for watching :mrgreen:
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 24, 2013, 10:01:36 pm
Just couldn't get lucky enough, man. Oh well, good game Aero.
Hey, so does anyone want to challenge some teams they didn't get to fight in this tourney? Just give a shout out and I can arrange something. I know I have some teams in mind...
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 24, 2013, 10:15:19 pm
I'd be up for fighting whoever
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 24, 2013, 10:33:08 pm
AeroGP dominated the first two rounds with pure damage from spellguns. The next 2 rounds were different as the Chemists got separated and couldn't recover. The fourth round was just bad as they were reduced to sandbag in the corner while the Thieves lined up for the kills. The last round was on ARENA(quite fitting if you ask me) and I thought Dokurider had the initial advantage with the Chemists being separated from the start. However, the Chemists regrouped in just 1 turn and they took care of business from there.
Thanks for hosting the tournament, Barren!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Jumza on January 25, 2013, 12:03:46 pm
I kinda want to see the dancer team fight the bard team... Thanks so much for this Barren! This tournament was awesome!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Reks on January 25, 2013, 09:07:19 pm
You wanna torture me further? Okay, that's fine with me. Let the best street performer win!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 25, 2013, 10:56:44 pm
(Yes, thanks for everything, Barren.)
At present, I'm just posting here again to say that before I forget since I think I've said most of everything about the last, and final, three matches on Youtube already. I'll post something again, maybe a complete review of the tournament, before the thread is dragged into oblivion.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 28, 2013, 07:56:02 pm
I'm actually looking forward to your review damned. I was thinking for a while also on my review but i'll let you go first
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on January 28, 2013, 08:03:48 pm
(You can go first if you want, Barren. You probably should, really.)
I mean, you are the host of this thing and my "review" will not be started until Friday at the earliest and you (all) know how long-winded I am by this point.
Besides, I'm still not yet sure how I even want to format the thing yet.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 28, 2013, 08:20:59 pm
Well I suppose I can. Once I review the matches again on how in my opinion each team did. all winners and losers will definitely have things worth noting
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 28, 2013, 08:52:39 pm
So here's what I have potentially slated so far. I'll get to work on recording once I fully recover from my cold:
Avalanche vs AeroGP/Dokurider/Otabo (are you the best? we'll see/Geo vs Geo) Dokurider vs Malroth/FDC/Truelight/Dol (just so I can say I took on all the gunners/i like fighting fdc/ninjas=weakness?/good fight potential) Jumza vs Reks (sure why not?) Eternal vs Malroth/AeroGP (the other side of the gunner battles) Jupi vs Truelight (ninja vs kunoichi) Dol vs DomieV (:p)
and yes, I am very high off of cough syrup right now.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 30, 2013, 07:01:43 pm
Here are my thoughts on every team that competed
First off congrats to you for winning this tournament by basically firing shot after shot after shot after shot. What made it work here was constant double turning with quickening and masamune especially when going up against a slow team. This also had a variety ways of healing and no charging or MP cost necessary. Good against High Faith teams or teams with undead units. However they did not use a blaze gun which can be a blessing at the same time a curse considering that item does not one shot a undead unit, fire does most of the time. They had however limited resurrection power, because all they had was phoenix down. And if the female chemists were to go down then there goes their sandbag power. But otherwise the pros outweighed the cons considerably. So it shouldn't be surprised that he won due to sheer power of Magic Attack UP + High Faith + 108 Gems + Pilgrimage coming at you. So again congratulations to you AeroGP
This scholar team was interesting to say the least considering this is a all out lore team. Earth Dragon and Shadow Shade sounded like a good idea in theory in terms of offense and healing at the same time. The best compatibility healing did help at times but the teams he went up against had a good counter against him. Auto Potion is a good counter to Lore. The other problem was this team had was facing Spell guns, and tank teams that has a long term strategy such as x saves. Plus being under 300 HP didn't help matters either. They tend to be OHKO'd sooner or later. Considering his record, while he didn't do bad, but could have done better
A geomancer team with a short fuse was a good idea initially considering the damage and AoE is certainly there. No flaws in their offense with geomancy and draw out. Everyone can do over 140 damage worth and can hit multiple opponents at once. But what what gave them trouble was that they had limited resurrection and low MP. MP is needed to cast multiple raise 2s or esunas in order to stay in the fight. Plus they had defense against magic. Magic evasion and shell yes but it didn't keep them alive long enough to keep the counter flood and MA save triggering enough times. What got Avalanche eliminated to me was high magic gun damage with out fail and lack of elemental defense. Great offense, but questionable setup and lack of defense overall
Her squire squad ran with luck in some ways as far as using death and surprisingly worked well for her. For a team that had mid stats starting off, she sure took advantage of the fact that squires are well rounded and can do well at almost anything. Black and White magic was used plenty by this team and used very well. And she did beat Vigilanti's team before falling to him in the tie breaker. But she deserves credit for making her team effective at defeating teams decisively up until that point. She was no match for dancers with witch unit considering that slowed down her offense. Still this was a team to be taken seriously enough. Good job Celdia
His wizard team while didn't run with elemental defense which looking back now they probably should have, but what he doesn't lack is offense and AoE. This was a team that took out a all lancer team. Draw Out, Summon Magic and White Magic were good compliments to the wizard's naturally high MA. However here, low HP and vulnerable to spell guns stopped CTHoly's momentum in this tournament. But overall this wizard team didn't do so terrible, it just went up against harder hitting and in someways faster opponents.
His thief team was nothing short of vicious. For him to make it all the way to the finals should be something for him to be proud of (and I assure you, he is proud of his efforts). What got him this far was high speed, and high damage output up close. This team also had some curve balls in terms of charm and death sentence. This team had ways to counter pretty much almost every team he fought. What was a gamble for him however was again status, the double-edged sword so-to-speak. Charm and Talk Skill had a chance to miss and it would turn the tide for any team. But still, Doku kicked ass up until the end and pulled out a lot of memorable matches. Even in a loss he deserved a medal for some of the best matches in the tournament IMO
This was a interesting idea on paper considering he was playing for a long game. And that he did. MA and PA saves were there with a purpose in mind, and that was to eventually wipe out the entire opposition with Draw Out and Ultima Weapon. Projectile Guard also proved to be pretty useful, at least against AeroGP. Unfortunately for him it was not helpful for the rest of his tourney matches. Plus the team was pretty slow so a team that is significantly faster can take them out. Still Dol at least should be given props for the idea falling into place, at least from a strategy standpoint.
He had a team that got people talking because of his Time Magic Paladin having Balance. And just tanking in general. This team had good evasion, but lacked movement and speed which can hurt them to some degree. But going up against a outright physical team with warpath wasn't good for them either. Yes DomieV had raise and phoenix down, but perhaps could have had better offense. 2 decap procs and a Ice 2 procs didn't come as often as he would like but that's why there's such a thing as taking chances. Maybe if he switched up his offense a little bit, he could have probably bull dozed his way through but otherwise did enough to leave an impression in this tourney
Mediators with guns are scary indeed. Those walking talking sniping mediators crushed opponents with magic guns (you're about to see a recurring theme here) and of course talk skill. Eternal seemingly had no trouble in the tourney until he ran into Dokurider of course. Charm and high damage. But don't sell this team short, it could have gone either way in that match. Eternal still did well considering his record and making it to the tie breaker of his block
His monk team had every advantage they needed to out do other opponents to do damage but unfortunately first half of the tournament started off bad for him. They had pretty much the worse of luck but did get some wins afterwards, but considering how he did in the beginning it wasn't enough to keep him in the tournament. Not sure why he had two units with 55 faith unless he was preparing for ninjitsu users (which there wasn't any of surprisingly). Perhaps he could have benefited with Reflect to ward off some magic but it was what it is
His dancer team was versatile in terms of offense. Nameless Dance (oil) + Earth Slash/Titan = PAIN. Plus the dancer team did look good in its outing but doesn't do well against teams with evasion. But the way they were setup up, these dancers can either hit you hard or befuddle you with wicth hunt, especially if you're a mage team. However what denied Jumza the victory to me was a lack of variety in dance, perhaps slow dance on maybe the talk skill dancer could have helped because then he can take full advantage pretty much every time but otherwise good showing
A archer team that had potential to win but fell short in the semi finals. This was a team that didn't use Pilgrimage interestingly enough but still did some heavy offense with their magic guns and cover fire. What stopped Malroth's roll here was that Cover Fire did low damage and the RNG just was not kind to him at all. Plus I would also think a lack of short charge might have hindered his chances a little considering that he had a white magic and time magic archer on hand. But I suppose having extra defense is okay too, just that to me if you're going to run a team that uses demi or raise 2 of that sort short charge is your friend. But still Malroth deserves his credit for making it very far in this tournament
His priest team was pretty lackluster because of the fact that his setups were pretty questionable. I don't think he took full advantage at the fact that having raise and raise 2 would have helped tremendously and that he lacked MP healing. A priest with southern cross wasn't that hot of a idea either considering the low PA. And if you were going to have a martial arts priest I would have used a full PA gear setup or perhaps just a priest with stigma magic and secret fist to take advantage of their good MA stat that they had. But hey, this is a new comer we're talking about so let's give him a break
His geomancer team had a lot of damage packing with geomancy, punch art and summon magic. But in his case they weren't evasive enough for counter flood to matter. While yes damage is good but damage and evasion have to go hand in hand especially if counter flood can proc something useful like stop or petrify or even dead if lucky. But still Otabo did quite well for himself and I think he deserves credit for using a very good geomancer team. A team that didn't need draw out or white magic in this one.
His priest team was a little bit better than NinjaWeazel's but were way too squishy to sustain any types of damage. These priests might as well been glass cannons but they can actually do damage. Unfortunately for him I don't think this team was used correctly, I think he could have added more defense than he could offense and that's what kind of cost him some wins I think. But to be fair he wasn't around for a long time to keep up with the updates for Arena but I still thank him very much for participating nonetheless
A fun lancer team he submitted in this one, but it didn't deliver the goods to his liking. Part of the reason why I think is because he wasn't able to fully cover those lancer's weakness such as a cursed ring unit not having crystal shield or a lancer with no resistance to lightning weakness. But these lancers were fun to watch because of their ability to redirect spells with Jump and avoid damage at the same time. I think again for Raven here is bad luck like fdc had in this tournament
This oracle team was certainly unique to see. I think this had a lot more going against them rather than for them. Because bags aren't really a good choice for offense especially since oracles has access to books or poles. While they did use necronomicon, I think he could have also used octagon rod or even madlegmen for other useful procs. Plus summon magic oracles aren't really the best thing to be using especially since oracles don't have that high of MA to begin with. I think he didn't take full enough advantage of the amount of statuses they can inflict to annoy and surprise his opponents. They just weren't sadistic enough with the status plus lack of staying power is what also hurt them in this one and the record clearly shows. Better luck next time reinoe
His bard team was another team of glass cannons, but should have been treated as such because no strong offense on these bards cost him considerably his chances to win. While there was nothing wrong with using White Magic because of their naturally high MA, they could use something more productive like Elemental or Draw Out. Even charm could have worked if he wanted a speed building bard with reraise for example. But again his mistake to me was not taking full advantage of their stats and mixing them with Yin Yang Magic and or Lore didn't really help either because of no short charge. Better luck next time Reks
Another scholar team that had some interesting things going on here. But having a team without full silence protection hurt Taichii there and of course while scholars have naturally high MA they have naturally low HP which did hurt him in the long run especially against Celdia. Great effort on his part but just fell short. Plus having two mages with twist headband didn't make much sense, perhaps he could have used holy miter or green beret, or if he wanted high HP Black Hood.
Initially his Time Mage team to me had something going for them but I think part of the problem for him was the way he aligned his units speed. And the fact that his shadow shades didn't do enough damage to matter. And I also think that these Time Mages could have benefited with auto shell rather than magic evasion because with auto potion they should in theory be able to take enough punishment to linger in their fights. But he didn't do to bad overall just low HP and low damage didn't really contribute much. His strengths however were the timely uses of Don't Move and Stop. Stop is very useful for him especially for the Demi 2s and Comets to land without fail.
Her ninja team was also fun to watch considering that she made it to the tie breaker as well. 13 speed ninja wasn't exactly the hottest thing she had going on but double turning is cool when it happens. Perhaps of that unit had Ninja Knife and warpath she could have been a wrecking machine. But still for a semi-joke team this was actually good. As long as you had fun Toshiko is all that counts
A much more serious ninja team in comparison but a team that had its issues too. Being separated was one considering that no one on the squad had reraise in case they die. Reraise on a loner unit would have been a bit more beneficial to him especially with the high movement ninjas do have or can have. The damage was solid though, 2x Kagesougi is always better than one.
For a summoner team going this far, they left a lasting impression. These gals don't play around with their massive AoE and the timely uses of Death and Frog. I think the summoners did very well here. But again, close up melee combat and charm is what got him in the end. But what these summoners packed was nothing short of good AoE damage considering how versatile his offense was. And his elemental defense was definitely there too. Just against a pure high damage fast team like Dokurider was his true weakness. But Vigilanti still deserves credit for making it very far and made good use of his undead summoner being his key unit at resurrecting and procs going off at the right time
Another new comer on the horizon but unfortunately for him his Samurai team was riddled with errors. Like a crossbow samurai for instance. If you wanted a samu to equip something with reach, a polearm like spear or stick would have been more of a better choice considering their innate two hands. Plus while koutetsu knife is still a good weapon, I think he could have benefitted with perhaps masamune for initial haste plsu dispel procs or perhaps chirijiraden so he can switch up his offense with heaven's cloud or kiku. But he didn't go for that. That to me is what cost him some important wins here
Everyone might have a different opinion or observation on how they did but those are just things I noticed during the matches. Overall, hosting this tournament was a lot of fun but a lot of work too. Hopefully we'll do it again sometime down the road.
Conclusion: Magic Guns are damn strong!
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 30, 2013, 07:40:59 pm
If there are no objections to my list, I will get started tonight.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on January 30, 2013, 07:51:50 pm
Minds, my tourney team's replacement, DOES have some changes. Make sure they're taken note of first, please. Otherwise, no objections at all.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on January 31, 2013, 12:39:41 am
My problem was I misread the metagame, I suspected that the major threats would be punch art, ninjitsu and Jump teams or holy spamming faith casters. I thought spellgun teams that carried all of Magic attack up, pilgramage, and elemental boosting would wind up too fragile to be a threat to any team so i readied my defenses against physical attacks or standard faith casting. As a result i also changed my time magic archer from carrying Demi2/balance and cursed ring to Demi/Dont Move so i had enough JP for breaks and grabbed 108 gems instead of cursed ring so she'd have a working offence with the weaker spells.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on January 31, 2013, 10:54:22 am
I'm satisfied with the results my team put up, but I think I could have done better in designing the team. I didn't incorporate enough skills (-tons) into my team and they relied too much on close combat. Many times they would move and do nothing. That's bad when you're up against 4 magical-orientated teams with deadly spells/skills. I was going to run Raise 2, but then I thought about the hit % and I went with just Raise. Bad move on my part because Raise still missed on some occasions.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 31, 2013, 02:12:18 pm
FFT Arena - Avalanche vs AeroGP (http://youtu.be/Z6e2MlP4arg)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Avalanche on January 31, 2013, 02:36:43 pm
No suprise, same thing that happend last to two encounters. Why did you choose this again?
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on January 31, 2013, 02:40:19 pm
I'm confused. Didn't you like, fight Malroth or something?
Well um then uh...next match!
FFT Arena - Avalanche vs Dokurider (http://youtu.be/53CHjOj1yu8)
FFT Arena - Avalanche vs Otabo (http://youtu.be/pWKuDSFs5DM)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 02, 2013, 06:43:27 pm
FFT Arena - Dokurider vs Malroth (http://youtu.be/ceb7echMYB8)
FFT Arena - Dokurider vs FDC (http://youtu.be/Q_PI-fCJtlA)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on February 02, 2013, 06:59:11 pm
dokurider vs me
this is why i carried defense up, those 250 damage knife strikes dropped down to 160 aganst my casters. Death sentence was still a potent weapon against my team but his charms had horrible accuracy due thieves abysmal MA
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on February 02, 2013, 07:34:09 pm
(Thanks for doing this, Dokurider.)
Needless to say, I'll wait until Dokurider posts the "Dream Matches"--why are you not using KOF music?! [/faux outright]--to post up my "review" of things. [/pretext]
This especially since I'm obviously running behind on getting the videos for today up since today has been...extra crappy, but those should finally be up in about an hour.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Barren on February 02, 2013, 07:36:39 pm
You're welcome to use any of my teams available. they should be ready for action now
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Reks on February 02, 2013, 07:38:02 pm
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 02, 2013, 07:57:21 pm
FFT Arena - Dokurider vs Truelight (http://youtu.be/mB0l53ZFtS8)
FFT Arena - Dokurider vs Dol (http://youtu.be/sLJ0FxkENQE)
Quote--why are you not using KOF music?!
I have horrible and shallow tastes in music. I'm just not going to bother. Just play whatever you want over them.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: The Damned on February 02, 2013, 09:52:48 pm
(Horrible and shallow tastes? Unless you listen to only like Nikki Minaj [?] or something, I highly doubt that.)
It was a (bad) joke besides. One that reminds that I should probably start using up the KOF music I have before I start jokingly nagging anyone else about it. Hmm...this means I'll have to download "Trashhead" before I forget....
Anyway, thanks for the videos regardless. How many more of these "Dream Matches" are you planning to do anyway?
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 02, 2013, 09:56:26 pm
I said it before, and I said it during and I said it afterwards, Spellguns were going to be dominant, if only because of the nature of the teams in this tournament. So built my team with this prediction in mind, and I am marveled at how well they've done and how versatile they've been in the face of not just spell gunners, but against every time they've been pitted against. Aside from being able to fight Spellgunners, one of my goals was to prove the combat prowess thieves have, and in particular, the strength that Knives now have thanks to being Two Handable. See it's not just the WP, or the +1 PA Katar has that makes it potent, it's the +1 Move. That +1 Move allows my thieves to run around the map and backstab units with devastating power. It may not hit the hardest, but it's a hit you cannot out run. I hope I've convinced more people to utilize Double Hand Knives in the future.
Right from the start, I wanted Cursed Rings for my Thieves for many reasons. I knew Thieves were going to have trouble reviving themselves through conventional means. While they are decent Item Bots, the property of knives meant that the team would naturally drift apart into many fronts, causing great difficulties in revival. Raise/Raise2/Fairy were just out of the question because thieves are poor users of conventional magic.
Cursed Ring was a gift from hell. It allowed me to freely invest in speed and movement without worrying about their respective drawbacks. In particular, Quickening and Cursed Ring have a disgusting synchronization because it eliminates the drawback of having high speed, in having a just as quick death counter. It didn't matter how high these thieves' move was either because they self revived. Without Cursed Ring, this team would be bogged down in revival.
Frankly, I was surprised at how little it showed up in the tourney, because many teams could have used Cursed Ring instead of trying to mold one of their units into poor man's priests and making them unnecessarily and unnaturally weak to magic.
Punch Art was essential for these Cursed Thieves. It was their only form of healing they can plausibly have and they needed to be self sufficient. Chakra doesn't heal much, but it heals enough to pull the respective units out of critical, and canceling critical is sometimes all you can really ask for. It also comes with the handy Secret Fist.
Secret Fist and Death Sentence is one of the most important skills on my team because it is the true anti bulk. It allows this team to defeat bulky and evasive units like Paladins with ease. It also functions as deaggro status: it allows the team to focus on the remaining units, thus increasing the pressure on them. When used timely, it activates just when the Cursed Thieves are getting up, allowing them to attack a now weakening team from behind. Most other teams disvalue Death Sentence because it's unnecessary and they can kill units much faster that Death Sentence and the ignoring trait of DS is undesirable. It's like basically the Seismic Toss of FFT, use it when you don't have any better form of offense.
My biggest miscalculation in reading this tourney's metagame was a one of simple math. I assumed that everyone would be using Blaze Gun because I erroneously believed Blaze Gun had the highest damage output of the guns. But as it turns out, it's actually 2nd to the Glacier Gun, simply because of how low the Y value of Fire 2 is. While the difference in damage is actually pretty negligible, it made both weapons equally as viable. In fact, most of the gunner teams shied away from Blaze Gun because Fire is often absorbed. Had I actually made the calculations beforehand, I possibly would have made one of my units absorb Ice instead.
It also would have made me think twice about HP Restore. I was counting on Blaze Gun to trigger HP Restore, thus negating it. Otherwise, I might have just gone with Projectile Guard. It's still a difficult call to make because of the potential HP Restore has.
My other regret was not giving Avarice, my Item Thief, a better weapon. While I identified this problem early on, I decided that Double Regeneration was too valuable to lose. But that was then, when I was overvaluing said Double Regeneration. Now I would give him either Blood Sword, Sleep Sword or Throwing Knife.
I wanted to use Bad Luck on my Talking and Item Thief (and possible my Punching Thief) but I couldn't because I disliked the overly long charge time getting me in big trouble. If it had a 2 or 3 CT, then it would have been viable for my team.
I couldn't use a Quickening strategy because it requires said unit to freely specialize in Quickening spamming than I could possibly give. Frankly, monks are a much better user of Quickening than Thieves anyways.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 02, 2013, 09:57:11 pm
Avalanche vs AeroGP/Dokurider/Otabo (are you the best? we'll see/Geo vs Geo) Dokurider vs Malroth/FDC/Truelight/Dol (just so I can say I took on all the gunners/i like fighting fdc/ninjas=weakness?/good fight potential) Jumza vs Reks (sure why not?) Eternal vs Malroth/AeroGP (the other side of the gunner battles) Jupi vs Truelight (ninja vs kunoichi) Dol vs DomieV (:p)
and yes, I am very high off of cough syrup right now.
If anyone still wants their SCC team to fight, speak.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on February 02, 2013, 11:13:48 pm
I like to think that i SUCESSFULLY molded one of my archers into a fairly workable white magic rez bot without any unnatural weakness to 80% of spells
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on February 03, 2013, 10:39:39 am
Thanks for the videos, Dokurider.
Those undead Thieves are quite the nuisance and it didn't help that and my Ninjas didn't dodge those kill shots. Repeating Fist was a good counter to Abandon. GG
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 03, 2013, 03:46:24 pm
FFT Arena - Reks vs Jumza (http://youtu.be/DL6gXLS9DKQ)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Jumza on February 03, 2013, 05:28:16 pm
I didnt know you could sing with silence 0.o. Double stop proc. Not cool man. It is kinda funny watching angel song being spammed a little bit after watching witch hunt get spammed. Didn't get a chance to watch the other rounds, but I know who wins. GG Reks.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 07, 2013, 03:06:54 pm
FFT Arena - Eternal vs Malroth (http://youtu.be/hGLCzOGaPeM)
FFT Arena - Eternal vs AeroGP (http://youtu.be/6T3A_z8rqlg)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Malroth on February 07, 2013, 04:06:02 pm
Arm aim's missed mimic davaron's did not miss
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 13, 2013, 03:52:33 am
FFT Arena - Truelight vs Toshiko (http://youtu.be/6H2sERVcTDc)
FFT Arena - Dol vs DomieV (http://youtu.be/knV-hN5lsX8)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: reinoe on February 13, 2013, 08:01:14 pm
FFT Arena - Dol vs DomieV (http://youtu.be/knV-hN5lsX8)
Did I miss something or did the Paladins vs Samurai only go 1v1 without a tie-breaker?
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 13, 2013, 08:06:15 pm
Oops, I forgot to add the other matches. Thanks for the catch, Reinoe.
EDIT: Wow, something got messed up big time, as the third match in it's entirety did not get recorded. I'll just have to re-record it. Just as well, I had some other things I wanted to record anyways.
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: Dokurider on February 13, 2013, 09:34:50 pm
FFT Arena - Dol vs DomieV (Part 2) (http://youtu.be/yTBA-uzIi40)
Title: Re: FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
Post by: TrueLight on February 13, 2013, 11:30:37 pm
Nice back and forward match. In the end, my Ninjas were able to dish out more damage and Erza actually started acting intelligent.