Dad Confronts Abortion Protesters At Clinic

[Wiz]

And they still have a greater grasp of christianity more than any other sect. Kind of sad, really.

Not here in the USA (CIA World Factbook... type it in on google), Protestants outnumber Catholics by a huge percentage.
Probably because their depiction of Eucharist is more sensible (Bread and Wine = Symbols of Jesus' blood and flesh) as opposed to Catholics (Bread and Wine = Literally Jesus' blood and flesh).

That's really the only difference between the two in a nutshell.

[philsov]

Protestants outnumber Catholics by a huge percentage.

Grasp as in understanding, not membership.

That's really the only difference between the two in a nutshell.

No.  No no.  Nononononnonononono.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/t ... ptura.aspx

Excerpt:

B. THE DOCTRINE OF SOLA SCRIPTURA DOES NOT MEET ITS OWN CRITERIA

You might imagine that such a belief system as Protestantism, which has as its cardinal doctrine that Scripture alone is authoritative in matters of faith, would first seek to prove that this cardinal doctrine met its own criteria. One would probably expect that Protestants could brandish hundreds of proof-texts from the Scriptures to support this doctrine -- upon which all else that they believe is based. At the very least one would hope that two or three solid text which clearly taught this doctrine could be found -- since the Scriptures themselves say, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established" (II Corinthians 13:1). Yet, like the boy in the fable who had to point out that the Emperor had no clothes on, I must point out that there is not one single verse in the entirety of Holy Scripture that teaches the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. There is not even one that comes close. Oh yes, there are innumerable places in the Bible that speak of its inspiration, of its authority, and of its profitability -- but there is no place in the Bible that teaches that only Scripture is authoritative for believers. If such a teaching were even implicit, then surely the early Fathers of the Church would have taught this doctrine also, but which of the Holy Fathers ever taught such a thing? Thus Protestantisms most basic teaching self-destructs, being contrary to itself. But not only is the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura not taught in the Scriptures -- it is in fact specifically contradicted by the Scriptures (which we have already discussed) that teach that Holy Tradition is also binding to Christians (II Thessalonians 2:15; I Corinthians 11:2).

[Archael]

Atheism isnt a belief system. Its the lack of belief in religious claims.

Atheism doesnt claim to know how everything started. We're actuly EXTREMELY humble & intellectually honest about that- because we admit that we DONT know tha answers to everything- and we're OK with that.

Unlike most religions which have fairy tale explanations for everything science can't answer. (oh and when science does find answers, they are, of course, rejected as heresy)

[Wiz]

Excerpt up in " ", probably would've read that (Sola Scriptura) as HW or something at my private school junior and senior year, but went to shitty public for reason's I'd prefer to keep to myself.

Guess my 10th Grade Social Studies teacher lied to me then in that there's actually more of a difference between the two.

Not well versed in the bible since the scriptures I read freshman year (seems like a ways back) were from a Catholic viewpoint [W/ it being of course a private, all-boys (rate "R" language yes), college-prep, and military school], so pardon me for my lack of expertise on the subject of church history, social justice and the scriptures and w.e. else comes to mind. Theo-politics was a contributing reason why I'm also an agnostic atheist. Would say "secular-humanist agnostic atheist" since it sounds bad ass and sexy, but idk what those 1st two words mean >__<

[Shade]

catholics are screwy crazy people who take it too far and touch little boys or so the stereotype says

And they still have a greater grasp of christianity more than any other sect.  Kind of sad, really.

Don't they have the worst grasp of it lol?

[philsov]

Don't they have the worst grasp of it lol?

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/t ... ptura.aspx

Once again.

Note that the above is rather an orthodox instead of pure catholic, but the argument is valid and correct in either case.

We must read the Bible; it is God's Holy Word. But to understand its message let us humbly sit at the feet of the saints who have shown themselves "doers of the Word and not hearers only" (James 1:22), and have been proven by their lives worthy interpreters of the Scriptures. Let us go to those who knew the Apostles, such as Saints Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp, if we have a question about the writings of the Apostles. Let us inquire of the Church, and not fall into self-deluded arrogance.

By scripture alone and ignoring tradition, one misses out on vital context and receives incomplete and incorrect messages.

[Jon]

Lol, GS, Protestants didn't "move away", they ran away. Instead of fixing what was wrong with the Catholic church at their times, they decided to make their own religions, Protestant, Lutheran, ect. See, it was all like one big mirror, but then it shattered into a ton of little pieces just because of Martin Luther. And I can't believe that everyone believes those stereotypes, now I am not trying to defend Catholics or anything, but I am pretty sure all religions have priests or pastors or whatever you want to call them who molest children, which is very wrong, they should have (haha, like the Bible says) "a rope tied around their necks and drowned in the sea". Weird...but somehow that actually seems just to me, drown the child molesting mother fuckers...
Anyways, the only reason why catholics are so stereotyped is because of the media. I am 100% sure that practically all religions have leaders (whether priest, pastor, or whatever else) who abuse their power or maybe became what they are just to abuse others. But because America is so protestant heavy, strangely only catholics are all the time stereotyped as evil boy molesters and other crap. Also, Protestant, Catholic and all the other major denominations aren't sects.

As for my own questions, I'll answer them as well.
I am almost totally against abortion except if it was a rape or the mother is in serious danger of losing her life when giving birth.
As for death, I believe when we die pretty much what most Christians believe, you either go to heaven or hell, depending on if you were good or evil. However, its not over there. I think we are given chances to turn back to being good if we were evil or just went through our entire lives hating G0d or everyone around us, or we can just continue to be evil and sorta condemn ourselves. When doubts spring in my head, its never about hell, in fact I believe that there is a hell where evil people go and are "punished", but also people who turn away totally, like the atheist atheists. I just sometimes can't imagine what heaven would be like, at all. Still, in a "zealous" sort of way I believe there is a hell, so there must be a heaven. But no one probably cares, you are not me with my experiences, and you haven't seen what I've seen. If you are an atheist, I guess you must think I am crazy, but in the end we all die, and in the end your logic and money won't save you. I believe one day we all stand in front of G0d, and we have to explain why we did some things we did, and then there is nothing really left to save you except whether or not you were good or evil. Well, thats just what I believe...

[Kaijyuu]

Atheism isnt a belief system. Its the lack of belief in religious claims.

Atheism has one religious belief: there is no God.

Agnosticism is the one without any beliefs whatsoever.

[Archael]

you are not me with my experiences, and you haven't seen what I've seen.

I would love to know what "experiences" you have had, which in your own mind, constitute as proof of the existence of:

1) A god which is magnificent enough to create the universe, yet petty enough to persecute homosexuals
2) A god which is all loving, all caring, and all-compassionate, yet has created an eternal hellfire of suffering for his own creations to suffer if they dare defy his will OR if his own loose creation (the devil) happens to corrupt them! Ahhh!
3) etc etc I can go on forever... the contradictions are endless.

I'd honestly love to know what "experiences" lead someone to believe in all of this crazy stuff. And remember, believing it just because it's how you were raised isn't demonstrable proof.

Atheism has one religious belief: there is no St. Ajora.

Agnosticism is the one without any beliefs whatsoever.

Are you seriously going to make me clarify this for the 2000th time? I remember having to clarify this error to you, specifically, in the past. Please listen this time, because the next time I'm just going to copy paste walls of text to you. Once again, "Agnosticism" doesn't refer to the person's beliefs or lack thereof!!!! Jesus H Christ get this through your head.

The words ATHEISM and THEISM refer to the person's BELIEFS or LACK OF BELIEFS.

The words GNOSTIC and AGNOSTIC refer to the person's CLAIM OF KNOWLEDGE (or lack of a claim), and has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with your belief system. Saying "I'm agnostic" doesn't say anything whatsoever. Agnostic, of what? Dishwashers?

You DO understand the difference between KNOWLEDGE and BELIEF, right? I BELIEVE FFT is the best game ever. I KNOW that I'm 6'1. One is a FACT that is KNOWABLE by me and others, the other is just a BELIEF I subscribe to.

Are you an Agnostic Theist?
Then you believe in a g0d(s) but you don't claim to KNOW of it's existence. IE: Unknowable g0d claim that you believe in.

Are you an Agnostic Atheist?
Then you don't believe in a g0d(s) but you don't claim to KNOW it's non-existence. IE: Unknowable g0d claim that you don't believe in.

Are you an Gnostic Theist?
Then you believe in a g0d(s) and you claim to KNOW of it's existence. IE: Knowable, personal g0d that you believe in.

Are you an Gnostic Atheist?
Then you don't believe in a g0d(s), and you also CLAIM TO KNOW that it doesn't exist.


The atheists that are posting in this thread are all Agnostic Atheists. We don't claim to KNOW the non-existence of any g0ds (because you can't prove a negative. ie you cannot prove the non-existence of something which hasn't even shown itself to exist in the first place, like unicorns).

And we do not BELIEVE in the claims that any g0ds are real. If you show an atheist like is PROOF that a g0d is real (any g0d, Odin, Freya, Zeus, Jesus, Allah, whatever), then we would be forced to accept the existence of such a being, and we would also be able to claim to know that such a being exists. The problem is that no such proof exists, and until religious people can back up their grand claims with evidence, you will always have people who are just going to ask "OK? And why should I believe this?"

The next time someone says "I'm Agnostic", ask them, Agnostic of what? What are you claiming not to know? The existence of peanut butter?

[Jon]

I am not going to bother to answer you Voldemort, its obvious by the way you write that you are an aggressive person. I am not sinking to your level anymore. If you were raised as a catholic and turned away, then thats your own business. If you were raised that way, that must mean your parents / guardians were catholics or at least Christians, ask those same questions in that same tone to them. I am starting to get annoyed with you and your whining. Plus how you talk to the others shows that you are an asshole, plain and simple. Stop being arrogant, you haven't done anything super special anyways. Chill the fuck out Voldemort. Plain and simple.

[Archael]

Hey Jon,

Here's an example of how your religious stuff sounds to an atheist:

Me: "Hey, I have a giant firebreathing dragon in my garage"
You: "WTF OMG LET ME SEE IT!"

Me: "it's invisible"
You: "Hmm. Then let's take heat signatures of it's fire breath"

Me: "Can't do that. the breath is magical and burns things without heating any temperatures"
You: "Hmm. Then let's record the sounds it makes!"

Me: "Nope. It emits sounds at frequencies that are immeasurable by anything in the universe"
You: "Hmm. Ok. Let's cover it in paint so that we can see how big it is and what it's shape is!"

Me: "No. It's also immaterial. Paint wouldn't stick on it because it's in-corporeal. Actually, it's not measure-able
BY ANYTHING. EVER. It created all nature, but it also exists OUTSIDE of nature. You are just a human, and you cannot ever get to know it"

You: "Wtf? Then how can I know it's real!?!?"
Me: "Faith"

You: "Sorry, I don't believe you!"

You see at this point, there is no longer any distinction between your dragon and something which does not exist.
You would be a perfectly reasonable person in not believing me.

If you were raised as a catholic and turned away, then thats your own business.

I wasn't "turned away". I realized it is all bull shit at a very young age.

It's your own business you have lacked the mental capacity and intellectual curiosity to come to this same conclusion and choose to rest on a comfortable delusion with a g0d that loves you, yet makes a hell to burn your enemies.

Have a fun life judging everyone else based on some ancient desert religion which you belong to simply because of the geographical location where you happened to be born in.

Stop being arrogant, you haven't done anything super special anyways. Chill the fuck out Voldemort. Plain and simple.

After reading your last post the thought occurred to me that you might just be a young kid, and you're simply unaware of the greater whole of information that is available out there on this subject. Well, better now than never.

[Jon]

I don't judge anyone, thats the point ass clown. The only one judging here is you. Who just wrote about magic fire breathing dragons? And then very poorly trying to compare that fucked up story with G0d and his teachings? You are ridiculous.

[Archael]

Who just wrote about magic fire breathing dragons? And then very poorly trying to compare that fucked up story with G0d and his teachings?

Read it again, it's exactly how un-provable religious claims of un-knowable beings sound to reasonable people.

It's not a ridiculous comparison at all. The fire breathing dragon in this scenario is indistinguishable from your g0d.

I wrote it so you can understand why people don't believe in what you believe, because there is no reason to.

And you're damn right I'm doing judging, I made this thread to show exactly how insane and unethical beliefs rooted in religion (anti abortionist) can become. And the video is just a mild example.

I'm glad my posts make you uncomfortable, maybe one day you'll wake up from your delusion.

[Jon]

Uncomfortable? I just said you were ridiculous. What I've been brought up with? Geez, what the hell where you brought up with? You can keep bitching at me until we both are old and die, I don't care. Actually, what are you really trying to prove to me? I am starting to think you want me to come out and say "there is no G0d", but you can forget it. There is a G0d, and I think you are afraid. Yes, afraid. Afraid of death and judgement, afraid of the world, afraid of loss. Imagine for a second you are out on the street and you get hit by a bus, but you don't die, but you are dying. What would you tell your friends and loved ones right before you die? Huh? Fire breathing dragons? Plus I really am not judging you as you are me, I already have an idea from your temper filled posts who you are.

[Archael]

Uncomfortable? No...

Ohhh yes. Uncomfortable:

I am starting to get annoyed with you and your whining.

Actually, what are you really trying to prove to me?

How insane your religion sounds to those that aren't indoctrinated. I don't expect you to suddenly come to understand the issues with religion and faith, if that ever happens for you, it'll me a gradual process. It doesn't just happen in one day (as far as I can tell.)

There is a G0d,

Yeah? Where's your proof? I still haven't seen it! If you get to state "there is a g0d" I also get to throw out that "there is a fire breathing dragon in my closet"

You can't disprove my claim, so I guess that dragon is real afterall huh?

and I think you are afraid. Yes, afraid. Afraid of death and judgement, afraid of the world, afraid of loss.

You're the one who is afraid of loss. That is why you need to believe in heaven and hell, so that you have an eternal place to go to, as well as your family, after they die. You need a comforting belief because it's easier than to have to accept and deal with the harsh realities... of, well, reality. You cannot accept that death is death, and when you're dead... you're dead. The end.

I accept that death is the end, I'm not afraid to admit that I don't know, the answer to everything, instead of trying to use some ancient desert texts to explain the things I cannot understand like your religion does for you.

But that isn't the case for you.

Imagine for a second you are out on the street and you get hit by a bus, but you don't die, but you are dying. What would you tell your friends and loved ones right before you die?

I loved you all, good bye. That's pretty much it. What else is there to say?

BTW I've been in near-death experiences before, and it didn't make me magically start believing in Islam or something.

It's actually rather liberating, to know that there isn't some crazy obsessed child raping jealous pseudo masochistic old man on the other side waiting to fuck you in the ass for every time you masturbated (while he watched). If you don't believe me, read the bible! It's all in there.

I suggest you give it a shot.

[Jon]

I have also had near death experiences, and my beliefs weren't shaken either. I can hardly believe you think G0d is some "crazy obsessed child raping jealous pseudo masochistic old man", in fact I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Are you high or something? Okay, the example of the bus wasn't too smart, I'll admit. I gtg now, but I guess this'll continue regardless.

[Archael]

You're missing the point of what I'm trying to say and focusing on 1 specific sentence that I wrote out of humor.

Are you just dodging my points on purpose or are you just that lacking in a response?

I have also had near death experiences, and my beliefs weren't shaken either.

A near-death experience (for someone like you) wouldn't have an impact on religious delusions. If anything, it might solidify them, because it's comforting to think that there is a heaven waiting for you in case you die.

The problem is that X = Comforting does not mean X = Real.

That's really the core issue with most religious beliefs and why people have such a hard time letting go of them (ie you).

That is why I said that the one who is afraid is you.  What is scarier? Knowing that when you die, THATS IT? Or believing that when you die, there's a nice heaven full of pillows and marshmallows waiting?

One takes way more courage to face than the other, and people will usually take the easiest way out, even if it's just a comfortable dream, even if it goes against everything we know about nature and the biological process of living things.

[Shade]

you are not me with my experiences, and you haven't seen what I've seen.

1) A St. Ajora which is magnificent enough to create the universe, yet petty enough to persecute homosexuals
2) A St. Ajora which is all loving, all caring, and all-compassionate, yet has created an eternal hellfire of suffering for his own creations to suffer if they dare defy his will OR if his own loose creation (the devil) happens to corrupt them! Ahhh!

1) Would you make race that would be heterosexuals and still be homosexuals and would end the race if all were homosexuals.
2) Btw there isn't single word about god creating hell. Defy eh? More like not believe in god or don't live a good life, wow he is really that evil, especially giving his only son to die for our sins, only thing is the devil where you kinda had your point, but we all are basicly "loose creations" to begin with.

How insane your religion sounds to those that aren't indoctrinated. I don't expect you to suddenly come to understand the issues with religion and faith, if that ever happens for you, it'll me a gradual process. It doesn't just happen in one day (as far as I can tell.)

How about you think about existence itself by thinking in the way of science, like atoms that you can't even see, or we came out of nothinges, or we were once fish, or planet is ball that spins, or all stars are actually suns in long distance,dinasours existed long before humans,or , and you say religion is hard believe? I find some of these facts very hard to believe still(some of them not facts) and you find that we actually came from somewhere and had purpose to exist.


It's clear to me that you had tooken this way too literally, since all religions are about teachings that teach us to be nice each other, hope that there still is something beyond death.(Expect some other cults that believe on in some evil being)


Ps. This picture is so awsome .

[Archael]

since all religions are about teachings that teach us to be nice each other

Shade, the degree of ignorance towards science in your post is astounding.

by thinking in the way of science, like atoms that you can't even see, or we came out of nothinges, or we were once fish, or planet is ball that spins, or all stars are actually suns in long distance,dinasours existed long before humans,or , and you say religion is hard believe? I find some of these facts very hard to believe still(some of them not facts) and you find that we actually came from somewhere and had purpose to exist.

You seriously have to be the most ignorant and uneducated person I have ever seen on this site.

What you just wrote is an embarrassment to religious people everywhere. Are you in elementary school or something?
Have you ever had a formal education?

I don't even know how to respond. It's almost as if the more ignorant you are about the world around you and the more education (particularly about religious texts) you lack, the easier it is to believe in religion. Amazing.

[VampragonLord]

like atoms that you can't even see, or we came out of nothinges, or we were once fish, or planet is ball that spins, or all stars are actually suns in long distance,dinasours existed long before humans,
I find some of these facts very hard to believe still(some of them not facts)

ermm.... to each their own and all that, but the whole point of science is to test and prove things..... we can hand you a microscope to prove atoms and cells exist. we can hand you a fossil record detailing how man evolved from lesser beings, we can show you telescope pictures of far away stars, and we can show you fossils of dinosaurs. Can you give me hard evidence that cain killed abel? i demand a trial!