Monster skills on Humans

[Kerrick]

Hey everyone!  In an attempt to make a Blue Mage job, I experimented by adding monster skills onto Ramza using the FFTPatcher and trying them out.  I notice that its kind of weird when a human casts/uses a monster skill.  My Ramza has Ancient & Blood Swords equipped and when he uses the skill there is a disembodied dagger swung around.  

Is there anyway to improve the way the skill is performed without hurting the performance of the same skill done by a monster? Like the way the varied Knight classes (Holy Knight, Arc Knight) use their skills?

I know its just aesthetics, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask others who have a lot more experience than I.



16 skills I'm thinking of using on Blue Mage (learned on hit):
Chocobo: Choco Cure
Goblin: Goblin Punch
Bomb: Self Destruct
Red Panther: Cat Kick
Pisco Demon: Mind Blast
Skeleton: Aqua Soul
Ghoul: Drain Touch
Flotiball: Look of Devil
Juravis: Feather Bomb
Uribo: Oink
Woodman: Calm Spirit
Bull Demon: Mimic Titan
Morbol: Bad Bracelet
Behemoth: Hurricane
Dragon: Ice Bracelet
Hyudra: Triple Brcelet

[R999]

Your problem is that those monster abilities have animation codes that correspond to animations that only make sense on specific monster sprites. It's a common place even in 1.3. Whoever thought of sticking monster skills to humans directly is beyond me...  

Anyway if you really want exact replica of those monster abilities, you need to change the animation for those skills. Change those via the Animation tab. For most skills there are two parts: the first being the charging and initialization of the skill; the second being the final execution of the skill.

For example, if you want the animation of a simple charging spell (one or two hand charging with white rays converging into the caster, depending on sprite) on a regular human sprite, followed by a (quick) raise of hands (and hold hands up in the air for a long brief moment, usually until spell is has already landed on the first target), use animation code 01-2C-00.  That's  00000001 00101100 (for the flags checked). Look at other spells for references.

Note that if you change the animation codes, you would also be effectively changing the monster's animation as well (which would often result in something looking glitchy if you are not careful). Since you are only working with a limited number of skills, it should not be a problem to make room for your new human-monster abilities. Note that you can right click on an ability and then copy/paste a skill easily.

[Kerrick]

Thank you so much R for your insight.  So really there is no way to change the animation for human using a monster skill without messing up the monster's animation, correct?

[R999]

I indirectly answered that part in my edit above..

There are certain animation codes that work for both human and monsters. Some people are fine with that. But if you really want to keep the original animations, you should consider making new skills using existing ability slots (since you only have a handful, that should be easy to do, just override the blank slots).

[Kerrick]

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

[Timbo]

Savage a blue magic thread to hijack.  I've been searching through the threads and its feels like 80% of all blue mage threads are people debating on which spells to use.  I'm trying to work out the mechanics of blue magic before I start fantasizing about what spells I want to fill

Anyway, is there a list of animations that are compatible with both humans and monsters floating around out there?  

Also, I've read some scattered information about how if you give create a generic with a skillset of actions that cost 0 jp to learn and are learned on a hit, the enemy version will start with the entire skillset learned.  Is this true?  Is there a work around or should I just charge 5000jp per skill?

[formerdeathcorps]

Anyway, is there a list of animations that are compatible with both humans and monsters floating around out there?  

All the monster animations are incompatible with humans.  Their sprites are a completely different type so none of the animations will look right.

Also, I've read some scattered information about how if you give create a generic with a skillset of actions that cost 0 jp to learn and are learned on a hit, the enemy version will start with the entire skillset learned.  Is this true?  Is there a work around or should I just charge 5000jp per skill?

Yes, this is true.  The easiest workaround is to make Blue Mage a special unit class akin to Orlandu (as in the enemy blue mages won't exist).  Then if you set your blue mage to have JP = 9999 (like Zodiac), you wouldn't have any issues.  Another workaround if you want Blue Mage to be generic is to assign realistic JP values and then order the list of spells in what you think the AI should learn in.  Regardless of which approach, enemy monsters will stay be able to use these attacks (but your monsters won't and can only learn them from enemy monsters and blue mages; ally-cast learn doesn't work).

[R999]

There is no definite list, but here's a few animations that work for both humans and monsters,

For the first byte,
00 = stand still
01 = magical charge (see Apanda)
03 = spell charge without magical rays (see Zodiac bosses)
I am sure 0B or 0D gets a singing animation here that works too.

For the second byte,
00 = use normal fist animation / normal attack (if weapon strike is checked, a weapon strike animation)
2C = is the standard "raise hands cast" for both humans and monsters. (See Apanda)

For example, you can use 01-2C-00, 03-00-00, etc etc. I don't remember if other ones work... but these should be sufficient for most purposes. I don't remember the others, just try it out.

[Timbo]

Anyway, is there a list of animations that are compatible with both humans and monsters floating around out there?  

All the monster animations are incompatible with humans.  Their sprites are a completely different type so none of the animations will look right.

Really, because R999 would feel differently?  This sucks if this is true.  See below for his quote.

There are certain animation codes that work for both human and monsters. Some people are fine with that. But if you really want to keep the original animations, you should consider making new skills using existing ability slots (since you only have a handful, that should be easy to do, just override the blank slots).

[philsov]

All the monster animations are incompatible with humans. Their sprites are a completely different type so none of the animations will look right.

???

Only for some of them, like in the screenshot above.  For example -- chococure, goblin punch, blaster, drain touch, and thunder breath with default animations all look fine on humans.  Some others need some definite tweaking (wave around, small bomb, leaf dance for starters), but there are certainly compatible animations.

Yes, this is true. The easiest workaround is to make Blue Mage a special unit class akin to Orlandu (as in the enemy blue mages won't exist). Then if you set your blue mage to have JP = 9999 (like Zodiac), you wouldn't have any issues. Another workaround if you want Blue Mage to be generic is to assign realistic JP values and then order the list of spells in what you think the AI should learn in. Regardless of which approach, enemy monsters will stay be able to use these attacks (but your monsters won't and can only learn them from enemy monsters and blue mages; ally-cast learn doesn't work).

I freaked out a bit when I read this, but I just did some testing:

1500 JP, not learned with JP, yes learn on it = my skeleton still knows knife hand.  Then my skeleton bred (in case of some lame carry over thing), and even the child skele still knows knife hand.  

My monsters know these flagged skills fine.  

Also another option is simply to not have blue mages present in most of the game <_<.  Or you can give any enemy blue mage a custom skillset (which you can rename to blue magic :p), which caps itself to know only the basic-level abilities.  Then as the game progresses you can hand blue mages different custom skillsets (which too can be renamed, there's plenty of custom skillset space to toy around with) that get progressively more full with abilities, rather than mess with JP costs and job level settings on the blue mages.

Since the AI will auto-learn all abilities in a custom skillset without regard to its JP cost or % chance to learn, this will give you complete control of what enemy blue mages can and cannot know.  You just need to be very thorough in the ENTD.  A lazier way would be to give the abilities JP costs and adjust the JP level of enemy BMs/classes that pass through BM.

[Timbo]

So what I'm going to do is give Mathset to the Knight and rename it Battle Skill and change it to default, then I'll rename Battle Skill "Blue Magic" and give it to the Calculator.  That way, I can put 16 actions in the calculator moveset.  Since there are only two battles where you can fight Calculators in the whole game and both of them are in chapter 4, I can probably just create one single moveset where some of the moves cost 0jp and others cost 9999jp.  That way, my Blue Mage still has to get hit to learn all of his moves, but I can create an automatically learned yet limited moveset for the other blue mages.  

Will this work?

[philsov]

forgive the ignorance, but what's preventing math skill default from rocking 16 skills?

[Timbo]

Nothing I've tested myself.  I won't get a chance to start testing any thing until late next week, when I can get my hard copy back from storage.  In the meantime I've been relying on the generosity of the people for knowledge and research.  formerdeathcorps, gave me a list of classes you cannot change in another thread.  Here is a link: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4850.

And, here is an excerpt:

OK, I have a list of classes you shouldn't combine as in you cannot add more skills into the moveset.

1. Archer
2. Chemist
3. Samurai
4. Ninja
5. Mime
6. Calculator
7. Geomancer
8. Lancer

So, if you know how to add more skills to the calculator moveset that would be awesome, but don't forget that the Calculator moveset is also subject to a dramatic slow down for AoE special effects.  Here is a link to that thread: http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4868

[philsov]

see my reply in the topic :p

saves you a bit of input.