Merge Spam / General Forums (topics don't raise post count)
Spam topics in the Spam Forum are general topics in nature
and there is no differentiation between these "Spam" topics and the topics in "General Forum"
etc etc
After watching the threads I'm posting in right now, I'm almost for this but not as a merger. Just tag other forums to not add to post count. General, maybe. Introductions definitely though. I think half of my posts are from there. The other half are from General. :-/
why not merger?
those two forums serve the exact same purpose
and both have the exact same kind of topic
I think the real question is: Who cares about post count? Really?
Yes, merge.
I agree with Celdia. Make it so post count only increases when people post in useful forum sections. Therefore post count will be a BETTER indicator of the quality of the member
I say Keep them seperated for the simple reason that it is...something else to try and read all of the different threads in each topic. Seperating them makes it easier. And you could just turn post count off for both.
but then again I am iggernant so you can ignore me.
Well I do like how the forums are laid out for the forum index. I guess I'm suggesting all of the 'General Discussion' forums be no count and the actual FFT ones above it being counted. ...it can't be recounted retroactively can it?
If that happened celdia. DarthPaul's Posts would be a total of 3.
jk DP, i love you! in the non gayest way a hacker can love a noob.
Well, that would be appropriate, wouldn't it?
In an attempt to keep this topic on topic... Merging General and Spam is up to Zodiac, but no matter what post count should not go up in either of them. I feel this is agreed upon.
Agreed. i vote for not being merged. there would just be to many topics to shift through.
Normally spam is a bit more random withont restraint. General normally has people keeping things under control. Vote for no merger
Like I said, post count is not exactly an important indicator, who really cares if it goes up or not? Keep it seperate, or merge it, the content is very similar, but I do agree it shouldn't raise post count in either.
im just trying to have less total forums
we got so many...
I don't even pay attention to forums in the first place. Easier to just use the 'new posts since your last visit' feature, especially considering by the time I read two posts, two more have popped up in a forum I was reading moments ago.
General is just a bit less wtf than Spam, though. I don't mind there being a distinction.
I don't see a need for a merger. Things really aren't that messy and I like being able to ignore Spam and general not getting too totally messy. Plus I care little for post count.
If you just want the front page of the forum to look neater perhaps there could be sub forums. Spam could be a sub of general and Mercs, Symbols and Remix could be subs of New Projects.
I agree with this, I see the same shit in general/spam.
I don't see a purpose in post counts at all. Except maybe to see seniority of members, but you could see that with the member list.
Quote from: "Smitson"I agree with this, I see the same shit in general/spam.
yep
I disagree. Shit in spam is clearly random nonsense for fun. General is more serious. No need for merger.
I agree with Vanya, unless we want to lose all credibility, I think it is best we keep the two forums seperate from one another.
Some spam may pop up in the general forum, but over all the stuff there has some from of "quality" too it that spam does not have.
I also agree with Vanya
Quote from: "Voldemort"Merge Spam / General Forums (topics don't raise post count)
Spam topics in the Spam Forum are general topics in nature
and there is no differentiation between these "Spam" topics and the topics in "General Forum"
etc etc
I fully agree. Let's do it. :D
Quote from: "Vanya"I disagree. Shit in spam is clearly random nonsense for fun. General is more serious. No need for merger.
Spam topics and general topics have little to no distinction.
Both have non-FFT-Related things people want to share with FFH.
Both have random nonsense topics for fun.
Both have semi-serious topics as well.
Both just serve as a "Talk about stuff not-related to FFT here" forum. They are both off-topic forums.
If you want me to bring up examples that prove what I'm saying is true, I will.
Claiming that one is different from the other because you want to pass judgment on which topics are "serious" and which ones are "just random jokes" is a very bad reason to disagree with this.
The proposed merger is not with the purpose of eliminating a "serious" section (General, which is more like an Off-Topic FFT section to begin with) or getting rid of a random section (Spam, which is also just an Off-Topic FFT section), it's to save space because both forums share the exact same function right now.
The only reason people post the more "serious" topics in the General forum instead of Spam forum is because they don't want their more serious ideas being categorized as "Spam".
I assure you that if Spam was re-named to "Off-Topic" you'd see people posting "serious" posts there instead of in General. Hell, they already do.
Just keep the name of the merged forum General or something along those lines.
Quoteunless we want to lose all credibility
What in the world does "our credibility" have to do with this?
General forum being separate from Spam forum has nothing whatsoever to do with this site's credibility.
The forum section called "General" at least symbolizes that we are trying to curb ourselves from looking like a bunch of children.
If there are "serious" topics in spam it's normally a mistake, such as arguments getting too out of hand and the like.
Quote from: "LastingDawn"The forum section called "General" at least symbolizes that we are trying to curb ourselves from looking like a bunch of children.
I don't get it
if our forum titles indicated our intent to not look like children, the forums would look rather different
we wouldn't have sections called "SYMBOLS OF RAGE" "HELP!" or anything with the name "FINAL FANTASY TACTICS" in it
I really don't get how the name of forums says anything about a website's maturity level or lack thereof
please don't bring ZSO impressions into this, it has nothing to do with the idea
QuoteIf there are "serious" topics in spam it's normally a mistake, such as arguments getting too out of hand and the like.
"a mistake" made by every spam poster and every general poster... like I said in previous post, these 2 forums are the same - they are just off topic forums and everyone uses them as such
like I said before the only reason people don't post "serious spam" in spam and they do it in general is because of the name
it's still off topic spam
I must agree with the mighty Arch.
Spam and general are both the same: Off-topic section.
This is a forum about FFT, and in spam and general you talk about other things...
So they could be merged IMHO.
Btw a poll about this question should be made.
P.s: This forum IS serius, because in this forum has been developed the "FFT 1.3" patch!
P.P.s: Spam and general are not serius, and everybody can see that.
And for GOD sake, stop the tree quote Arch: they make you look bad (Just kidding ofc ^_^)
I'm honestly being serious here.. not trying to tree quote at all
but people keep bringing up things which I think are irrelevant (like maturity level of the site)
The problem you encounter is the quality of the threads in each section.
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2526 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2526)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2762 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2762)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235)
The above are topics of general integrity that are interesting to read for what they are.
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2811 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2811)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2780 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2780)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2647 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2647)
The above here are samples from spam that are generally fun to read for the joke/memes inside.
On most forums I've visited, the "spam" section is usually devoted to things like forum games and stuff too serious and/or ridiculous for general (religious debates, politics, ect).
With the exception of the 3 word game, I don't see any active forum games, and certainly no debates outside seraphim's introduction. I agree with arch that, as of now, the two forums are serving mostly equal purposes.
While you made a point just now Kaijyuu.
I urge to look again we have a lot more debates than you realize.
Quote from: "ph33rb0t"The problem you encounter is the quality of the threads in each section.
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2526 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2526)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2762 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2762)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235)
The above are topics of general integrity that are interesting to read for what they are.
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2811 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2811)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2780 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2780)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2647 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2647)
The above here are samples from spam that are generally fun to read for the joke/memes inside.
I can list examples that are the exact inverse to what you just posted
:\
that's my point though, they are identical
Also DP you are right
Spam has debates.. way more than General
Here goes my examples:
Spam Topics in General Forum:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2666 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2666)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2580 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2580)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2559 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2559)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2525 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2525)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2492 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2492)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2156 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2156)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2469 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2469)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2339 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2339)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2336 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2336)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2166 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2166)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2196 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2196)
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2184 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2184)
The same works in reverse, depending on how much you want to extend the semantic definition of what a "General" topic is.
Rest assured, "serious" or not, they all have one thing in common.
THEY ARE OFF TOPIC!!
I can go on if you like. Of course my examples are irrelevant, BECAUSE THE TWO FORUMS ARE THE SAME. OFF-TOPIC!! That's why you find what Vanya considers "Spam" in General and vice versa. Their only distinction is in the NAME, and the things people "think" is associated with the name.
What you have there Arch lends me to think what we need other than a merger is a general cleanup of the general section in which the spam is thrown in it's rightful place.
I would also be happy if the spam was merged with the general and just call it the General thread and don't mention spam in the description. <- I may look back at that idea and find something I dislike.
Either way I get what you mean the content is the same but the sections are completely different topics. Why not arrange the topics? Lazyness, something better to do, or just don't want to? Either way you look at it nothing has been done and it has worked for us thus far. Why mess with a formula that works just to find out you have fused you pants to a hamster.
QuoteWhy mess with a formula that works
there's no doubt that it works
I just suggested merge because of the sheer amount of forums we already have (and growing)
merging general and spam will be like merging
off-topic #1 and off-topic #2
less sub-forums = good
QuoteI would also be happy if the spam was merged with the general and just call it the General thread and don't mention spam in the description.
me too
Well I am glad we came to an impasse.
Also you decided not to quote the bit about the trousers melded to a rodent? I thought you might like that part, or at least have a retort.
Quote from: "Voldemort"I would also be happy if the spam was merged with the general and just call it the General thread and don't mention spam in the description.
BTW by this I mean I would be happy if the Spam FORUM was merged with the GENERAL FORUM.
Not *just* if the spam topics in general were merged with spam.
So I don't think we came to an impasse (whatever that means, I have no clue)
QuoteAlso you decided not to quote the bit about the trousers melded to a rodent? I thought you might like that part, or at least have a retort.
DP, if I didn't quote it or respond to it, it's because I decided not to (obviously), didn't feel like it, or didn't have anything to say about it (obviously, hence my lack of having said anything ABOUT IT)
see this is what I mean about redundant posting
I shall nudge aside your incessant nagging and suffice to say impasse may not have been the most suitable word in that situation.
Though as of your last statement we are now definitely at an impasse, that shall more or less likely be broken by Zodiac's decision.
Quotenudge incessant suffice impasse
Though as of your first statement we are no definitely at an impasse, that shall more or less likely be broken by Zodiac's decision.
lol wat
bump
Zodiac read!
This is BS.
The spam forum was created so that you don't have to hold back, while the General forum is for anything still serious not directly related to FFT.
If I merge spam into general and people post off-topic, offensive stuff that kills a serious topic, I'd have to moderate and that would kill the whole purpose of the spam forum's existence. If some spam topics from general weren't moved, it's just me being lazy; not that I accept their presence.
So the difference between spam and general? spam isn't moderated and isn't serious at all.
Quote from: "Zodiac"This is BS.
The spam forum was created so that you don't have to hold back, while the General forum is for anything still serious not directly related to FFT.
If I merge spam into general and people post off-topic, offensive stuff that kills a serious topic, I'd have to moderate and that would kill the whole purpose of the spam forum's existence. If some spam topics from general weren't moved, it's just me being lazy; not that I accept their presence.
So the difference between spam and general? spam isn't moderated and isn't serious at all.
I understand
but why not just merge them and have the merged forum be un-moderated?
people spam in "Serious" general topics, and you can't tell me any serious moderation goes on in general.. general is never moderated :\
neither Spam or General are moderated, because they are both off topic lol
General topics are moved to spam all the time.
Isn't that a form of moderation?
Quote from: "darthpaul"General topics are moved to spam all the time.
Isn't that a form of moderation?
it is
it's also a form of acknowledging that the 2 forums function exactly the same, since people post interchangeable topics ALL the time in both of them
the very fact that those topics need to be moved shows how similar the two forums are
like I said before they are both off topic forums, and people use them that way
it doesn't make much sense to have them separate; like we have them now:
1) "Off Topic *Serious Topics only*" (General)
2) and "Off Topic Jokes" (Spam)
it'd be easier to just have ONE "Off Topic forum" which is un-moderated (DOESNT RAISE POST COUNT) and then no more threads would have to be moved between two forums which are virtually the same in function
Like this:
- OFF TOPIC FORUM!
You can pick whatever name you want.
let Serious Off Topics and Joke Off Topics be on the same forum... I don't see the point in trying to separate them just because of what some deem to be "Serious" and what some deem to be "Spam", because those labels are very debatable and completely based on opinion... however General / Spam Forum topics being OFF TOPIC to FFT and FFT Hacking is something we can all agree on, AFAIK
I support this proposition with my 336 posts!
Quoteit's also a form of acknowledging that the 2 forums function exactly the same, since people post interchangeable topics ALL the time in both of them
I fail to see the point here. If they are interchangeable why have we never seen spam moved to general.
They are not interchangeable it is just that spam happens to find it's way into general. Just like it finds it's way into all of the others sections.
Quote from: "darthpaul"Quoteit's also a form of acknowledging that the 2 forums function exactly the same, since people post interchangeable topics ALL the time in both of them
I fail to see the point here. If they are interchangeable why have we never seen spam moved to general.
Because once a topic is in "Spam" it gains a label of being a joke topic not to be taken seriously, and no topics are moved from "Spam" to "General" because "General" is seen as a container for slightly more serious off-topic topics. For this same reason no "Spam" topics are moved to other forums.
My reason for the merge is that "General" contains topics which are ALSO not to be taken seriously, because they are just as off-topic as the ones in "Spam".
QuoteThey are not interchangeable it is just that spam happens to find it's way into general. Just like it finds it's way into all of the others sections.
You can open the General forum and find many topics that could fit just as well in Spam. See the examples I provided earlier. They are very interchangeable. There's no clear definition of what a "General" and "Spam" topic has difference-wise, just that Spam is un-moderated and General is.
Care to reply to my other points which I wrote in my previous post, or do you agree with them?
How should I reply to them your post was just the same package over and over again with a different wrapping each time you presented it.
Quote from: "darthpaul"How should I reply to them your post was just the same package over and over again with a different wrapping each time you presented it.
Yeah, I'm trying to get people to understand my reasons for suggesting merge.
You say it like it's a bad thing to express my ideas and try to provide varied reasoning to support them...
Anyway, if you're not going to reply to the other points I bring up, I'm going to assume you agree with them.
I thought the reason you were posting here (and the reason I'm replying to you) was because you are against the idea of a merger, but I guess I was wrong.
You should express your ideas, but as I said your expressing a few ideas multiple times with different wording each time.
Multiple ideas that does not make. What you are trying to say is the version of the ideas I have not contested I agree with. Which with the way your argument is heading would mean I agree with everything you stated which I do not.
I only agree that Spam and General have similar contexts but different way of going about it.
Should they be merged, no. Why?
Quote from: "Zodiac"The spam forum was created so that you don't have to hold back, while the General forum is for anything still serious not directly related to FFT.
Quote from: "darthpaul"Should they be merged, no. Why?
Quote from: "Zodiac"The spam forum was created so that you don't have to hold back, while the General forum is for anything still serious not directly related to FFT.
You don't have to hold back in General forum. The only reason you'd have to hold back anything in General is because of the sheerest coincidence that Spam is un-moderated and General is. That's a shitty reason IMO. It serves the exact same purpose as Spam does.
Oh, so the General Forum is for anything "STILL NOT SERIOUS" but not directly related to FFT?
Take a look at this:
The General Forum: IE SPAM V2.0
(http://i41.tinypic.com/w139li.png)
Still not serious indeed! Like I said, General is just another Off Topic Forum.
Ummm Arch think on this one for a minute.
The topic of this forum is FFT right? Right, I thought so.
General is for anything not related to FFT right? *Chirp*
In this regard General will always be off topic. Why? Because there is a place for all of the other questions that a weary traveler might have.
On that note Spam is not moderated because it is meant to be crazy.
If something in General becomes crazy guess what? It is moved to spam.
I understand that, and what you are bringing up is exactly what I'm trying to say.
General and Spam are BOTH and will always be Off Topic forums. They are so similar that people continiously POST SPAM in the General forum, and many topics in Spam could pass for General Topics, and vice versa!!
Why have two forums whose function is THE SAME? (OFF TOPIC) We already have plenty of forums, just merge them and reduce the number by 1.
I already mentioned why people post in spam and general as they do, and it's all in the name.
What you are telling me serves to better prove my point that they should be merged, DP, not that they shouldn't...
no, there is still, whatever you say, a big difference between the two. Spammers in general section should get a 1 day ban and thats it.
Quote from: "Kokojo"no, there is still, whatever you say, a big difference between the two.
The differences are in name and moderation. Besides that,
they are the same off-topic forum.Proof: (Screenie of General's 1st page as of today)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/w139li.png)
Spam is just off-topic? that's new.
spam is for FFT stuff too.
This dosen't bring up your point at all. Compare it to just-posting topics like Pearls of the chat, forum games like the room, and ect.
Questions are asked in General, while spam as the Purpose of nothing serious, who cares what happen there.
100$ if someone brutally spams general, he won't be well seen.
General : Act like humans.
Spam : Act like freaks.
I think the issue is that there are some topics in spam that should be in general, which seems to seamlessly make the two sections look alike.
- less cpu time
- Xboxlive gamertags
- Calling out Mr. BloodyBlade
- My hard drive died
All should probably be in general, instead of spam because of the content and I'm sure there are more topics in spam that should be in general. Where as in general,
- I know everyone can do it, but I did it to laugh a bit
- everything now makes sense
- I now have... (turns into a "spam" topic because of replies)
should probably be in spam.
I can see the confusion and why this topic should be made but there are obvious topics that definitely don't deserve to be in spam i.e. Our friend Rain4h and some that definitely do like i.e. Important announcement concerning spam.
Regardless it doesn't make that much of a difference to me as I don't post nearly as much as most active members here, but I felt this topic needed an extra perspective. The best solution, I think, would be more active moderation of the General Forum and more responsibility with posts/replies in that section which the topic "I now have..." clearly shows.
Quote from: "Zodiac"Spam is just off-topic? that's new.
spam is for FFT stuff too.
General is Off Topic too..
General can be for FFT stuff too, I'm sure it's had FFT related topics in there, just like spam has
Quote from: "Kokojo"General : Act like humans.
Spam : Act like freaks.
Don't you mean:
General: Off Topic
Spam: Off Topic with no moderation and no post count?
I see it more like :
General : Talk about everyday happening, fears, musics, politics, work, love and everday topic in a normal person life.
Spam : Talk about penis, joke harsly on the deads, vomits flows of insults, play forum games, hop around naked, do pedophile jokes, have a laught.
General is not totally respected, but often is. People don't act like dumpfucks there.
And if you come up with 3-4 screenshots of people BEING idiots in general, well you're just plain stupid.
Quote from: "Kokojo"I see it more like :
General : Talk about everyday happening, fears, musics, politics, work, love and everday topic in a normal person life.
Spam : Talk about penis, joke harsly on the deads, vomits flows of insults, play forum games, hop around naked, do pedophile jokes, have a laught
That's how ideally everyone should see it, but unfortunately the reality is that people use them interchangeably. Like we discussed in chat with Asmo, no one uses "General" like the purpose of General states. Instead, it's used as Spam #2 with Post Count. This is why there's always been a need to move "Spam Topics" to General, and a need to move some "General Topics" to Spam Forum.
This is a topic you posted in Spam Forum. Topic is Here:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2874 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2874)
^ This is a
very serious issue. According to your own argument, a topic like this belongs in General, NOT Spam.
Why did you post it in Spam? Because of the same reason everyone else mis-uses the two forums by their very own definition. Their "differentiation" is un-clear, blurry, and often indistinguishable. They are too similar.
You yourself aren't very clear on what is "Spam" and what is "General". All you know is that it's "Off-Topic". The topic could go on EITHER FORUM, because they are both the same, off-topic forums. Because you are part of the problem I am highlighting with my merging idea, I wouldn't expect you to understand it and/or agree with it.
QuoteGeneral is not totally respected, but often is.
Respect doesn't have anything to do with any of this, Kokojo. Their function is identical, regardless of how people "perceive" them.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2cxxag5.png)
Actually, my girlfriend was calling me to say goodnight, that's why I said bbl.
Like I said in the "This Hulutube Bullshit" Topic;
Winning an argument is not a criterion that is simply achieved by declaring it.
Indeed, the mere fact that you need to make such a statement seems to suggest that you do not think
that this is self-evident from your argument.I don't feel like I lost any arguments, I know I have valid points, and I know you feel you haven't disproven any of them successfully because of your hasty claim that I lost.
I don't agree with Zodiac that it's a mindless point. It's just as "mindless" as saying "Introduction Forum serves no good purpose! KILL IT!" which is a suggestion he DID take seriously, the Introductions Forum is gone now.
Merging Spam and General Forums is just as reasonable as Asmo's request to kill Introductions Forum,
and a lot less sudden, mindless and radical, might I add.(http://i40.tinypic.com/2vnq5ux.png)
Influent on newbs? (Is influent a word in the english language? Did you mean influential?)
What noobs?
I don't see how any newbs have anything to do with any of this.
And if by "influent on newbs" you mean that I supported getting Seraphim (Magitek) banned, then I agree with you, and I am glad I can be "influent on newbs."
Influent is a word it just has a way different meaning.
The word he was looking for was probably influence.
I don't know what word he was looking for, but he picked the wrong one!
Indeed.
Quote from: "darthpaul"Indeed.
Ok man I let it slide last post but this isn't the Spam forum, stop posting for posting sake. This is a serious topic and I am seriously trying to develop this idea. Don't spam in here.
We could totally merge general, spam and WOTL discussion and nothing would change.
Everyone could just use [serious] [WOTL] or [spam] tags in the topic heading to let people know what kind of party it's going to be.
^
I like this idea alot. small icons to the left of the topic name to help identify what the posts will pertain to. it would help a bit if we merged them all.
Quote from: "Voldemort"That's how ideally everyone should see it, but unfortunately the reality is that people use them interchangeably. Like we discussed in chat with Asmo, no one uses "General" like the purpose of General states. Instead, it's used as Spam #2 with Post Count. This is why there's always been a need to move "Spam Topics" to General, and a need to move some "General Topics" to Spam Forum.
This is the unfortunate truth.
Quote from: "Goomba"Everyone could just use [serious] [WOTL] or [spam] tags in the topic heading to let people know what kind of party it's going to be.
This is a really good idea, helps toward merging the forums.
Quote from: "Goomba"Everyone could just use [serious] [WOTL] or [spam] tags in the topic heading to let people know what kind of party it's going to be.
I Totally agree
We could make a button to press in order to select what kind of topic is, something like when you vote an option of a poll ^_^
lol tags
Quote from: "Zodiac"lol tags
They would be nice IMO ;P
lol introductions forum.
Quote from: "Asmo X"lol introductions forum.
It's you that proposed the kill of the introduction topic right asmo?
Why you tought it was useless?
It's pointless. Having separate spam and general forums is not pointless. It's just the terrible quality of the posting around here that makes it look that way.
Quote from: "Asmo X"It's pointless. Having separate spam and general forums is not pointless. It's just the terrible quality of the posting around here that makes it look that way.
We could make someone the moderator of general forum and make him control the posts here...
Otherwise we could merge the 2 forums and use the tags
Btw I think that the introduction forum wasn't so necessary, but also not pointless...
If someone join FFH now, I dont know if he will know where to post the first time
they can post wherever they like. You don't have to make a pointless intro topic before you can start posting.
Quote from: "Asmo X"It's pointless. Having separate spam and general forums is not pointless. It's just the terrible quality of the posting around here that makes it look that way.
you bring up a good point
Quote from: "Voldemort"Quote from: "Asmo X"It's pointless. Having separate spam and general forums is not pointless. It's just the terrible quality of the posting around here that makes it look that way.
you bring up a good point
)@#?@(*?#@#*(@#_@&1-3189 Voldemort!!!!!!
This is what I said a couple of time on chat. General is suppose to be better than spam but isin't because of the maturity level.
Then...
Quote from: "Dome"We could make someone the moderator of general forum and make him control the posts here
How about, it shouldn't be other people's jobs to assure the people of their community have the Intelligence to know where and what to post. That's why moderator's for the majority of the sections outside hacking is a poor idea.
Kokojo brings up a good point on the matter, it's just the quality of the posters for the most part which decides what.
I moderate it... when I feel like it.
I don't know anyone who's really up to the job and no one proposed him/herself to do the job.
I cannot say I would be the best moderator, but I would be willing to do it if it would return General to actually being General and not Spam spillover. As I am sure several others would be willing to do.
i wouldn't nominate me
If anyone knows spam, it's DP.
That is a very sad reality.
I could do it, I can easily tell the difference between spam and regular. Might be a bit too quiet for the job looking at the other mods though
So at the moment goldblade0 and darthpaul put themself foward...
Someone wants this job after all ^_^
I would be the best tyrant.
I think I have a bit of seniority, and have I ever done anything stupid while here?
Yeah, but being given Mod powers also brings up the secret Mod forum where we post naked pictures of ourselfves or get banned from the site and replaced by ph33rb0ts.
But if we merge the forums then there's no reason at all to change the quality of posts.
or to have a new moderator
Quote from: "Voldemort"or to have a new moderator
Listen to the boy. This is the option that requires the least amount of change.
Besides, a new moderator would just move 70 percent of topics after they get over two days old from general to spam.
That is the problem with your plan.If a new mod was named then threads would have to be moved. Yet you say General and Spam are the same so that would mean by you point of view a mod would not have to move anything because general is spam part 2. It just does not work that way. General needs a mod because while it is off topic it is most certainly not spam.
What. Most topics eventually become spam because there's no real code of conduct for what can be posted. If there was a moderator, then there would need to be a set of rules established for things to be orderly.
If you just merge both forums, nobody has to play the hard ass and nobody has to change their behavior. It goes on business as usual.
Merging the forums is basically saying General conversation is spam. Guess what? It's not. The fact that it becomes spam is a shame, and I take my share of the blame for it happening. The thing we are looking at is not whether spam is posted in General, it is the fact that they are different topics. We need a General moderator to keep it from happening. Taking the lazy route will not make us any better, and the amount of threads we have on our main page should not be a precedent either.
Well, yeah. The only reason it's in the state that it is now is because people have been raping it. If they stopped raping general with spam all the time, we wouldn't have this issue. So we should merge both forums.
Quote from: "darthpaul"Merging the forums is basically saying General conversation is spam. Guess what? It's not.
nope
re-read this entire topic all over again, everything you are bringing up has been talked about already
you are re-iterating blank posts that have already been brought up and your only contribution is "it just doesn't work that way", which is a shitty reason, sorry
QuoteThe fact that it becomes spam is a shame, and I take my share of the blame for it happening. The thing we are looking at is not whether spam is posted in General, it is the fact that they are different topics.
The problem is not that it BECOMES Spam, or that Spam becomes General, the problem is that General Topics are alot of the time ALSO Spam Topics, and vice versa
see my screenshots of both forums that I upped to this thread ages ago
there is no denying that even though the forums have different
purposes, functionally they are the same
saying "but it's not supposed to be that way!!!" doesn't change that
ideal purpose =/= reality
QuoteIf a new mod was named then threads would have to be moved.
Of course threads would have to be moved, man! Because the two forums are identical, they are both off topic, "social", "general" forums, regardless of what their original purpose was.
QuoteYet you say General and Spam are the same so that would mean by you point of view a mod would not have to move anything because general is spam part 2. It just does not work that way.
He'd move things based on his opinion of which off-topic topics are spam and which off-topic topics are general
in the end, they are still off-topic banter Social threads, because General IS indeed Spam part 2
that is why the idea for a merge was brought up
we don't need 2 forums for social for-fun threads, when 1 will do just fine
QuoteThat is the problem with your plan.
And the plan to get a new moderator who will have to decide, based on his opinion, what is a General Topic and what is a Spam Topic is a better idea?
lol
the only thing you guys are latching on to is OPINIONS of which topics are Spam and which are General
when you know that right now, both forums are inter-changeable, only differentiated by what SOME people deem to be "serious" and what SOME people deem is "Spam"
also, since no one brought this one up:
Assigning a moderator to General will not solve the problem of what some people think are "General, Serious Topics" from being posted in Spam Forum
it will only solve the problem of what some people think are "Spam, Joke Topics" from being posted in General Forum
The problem with arguing that the two forums stays separate because of a slight different in thread purpose is that it's an argument based on everyone's interpretation of what is a "Serious Off Topic Topic" and what isn't
this is a definition that varies based on who you ask, and greatly depends on the poster and everyone else reading the topic
My argument is based on the fact that BOTH FORUMS ARE OFF TOPIC THREADS
this isn't my opinion, this is how they function, and it is the reason we have these 2 forums serving 1 exact same purpose
when we could just have 1
its pretty easy to see the difference between general and spam..
Spam:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953)
General:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906)
Although slightly similar theres still a major difference
Quote from: "Smitson"its pretty easy to see the difference between general and spam..
Spam:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953)
General:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906)
Although slightly similar theres still a major difference
You can't cherry pick particular examples
look at the entire forums dude, not just 1 thread
I can cherry pick threads that say exactly the opposite of what you're claiming, just as easily!!
here look, I'll do it now:
"Jokez thread" in General:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2912 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2912)
"Serious thread" in Spam
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2874 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2874)
cherry picking doesn't prove much
After merger what is to stop ppl's serious topics from getting spammed to death?
The way I see it there will still have to be rules and a moderator weather the sections are merged or not.
I think we should at least try to make a rules topic in General and give it a moderator before merging.
Right now we're doing nothing at all and that won't resolve anything.
Quote from: "Vanya"After merger what is to stop ppl's serious topics from getting spammed to death?
Nothing, as it should be in an off topic forum... a "serious topic" is only "serious" because you think it is not "Spam jokez material". That is all subject to interpretation, as the two forums currently show.
QuoteThe way I see it there will still have to be rules and a moderator weather the sections are merged or not.
I think we should at least try to make a rules topic in General and give it a moderator before merging.
Right now we're doing nothing at all and that won't resolve anything.
We're not doing anything because people don't like change and would rather do nothing and leave things as they are. It is more comfortable that way
Quote from: "Voldemort"Nothing, as it should be in an off topic forum... a "serious topic" is only "serious" because you think it is not "Spam jokez material". That is all subject to interpretation, as the two forums currently show.
It shouldn't be that way at all.
And a serious topic is serious because the author wants a serious discussion. Otherwise, they would post in spam.
The only reason the general section shows spam is because it doesn't have a set of rules and no moderator.
I don't see any good reason to merge them other than to be lazy.
Quote from: "Voldemort"We're not doing anything because people don't like change and would rather do nothing and leave things as they are. It is more comfortable that way
No. We aren't doing anything yet because the subject is still in discussion.
Leaving it as is would be ridiculous and eventually lead to merger anyway.
(Probably what you and others would settle for in lieu of merger.)
Merging would deprive the site of a place for serious discussion of off-topics. Simply giving the general section rules and a mod would prevent the spam hammering of said off-topics. At that point there would be no reason to merge them and no one would be deprived of anything.
Quote from: "Vanya"It shouldn't be that way at all.
And a serious topic is serious because the author wants a serious discussion. Otherwise, they would post in spam.
The only reason the general section shows spam is because it doesn't have a set of rules and no moderator.
I don't see any good reason to merge them other than to be lazy.
No. We aren't doing anything yet because the subject is still in discussion.
Leaving it as is would be ridiculous and eventually lead to merger anyway.
(Probably what you and others would settle for in lieu of merger.)
Merging would deprive the site of a place for serious discussion of off-topics. Simply giving the general section rules and a mod would prevent the spam hammering of said off-topics. At that point there would be no reason to merge them and no one would be deprived of anything.
copy pasta from my 1st reply to you in this thread
Spam topics and general topics have little to no distinction.
Both have non-FFT-Related things people want to share with FFH.
Both have random nonsense topics for fun.
Both have semi-serious topics as well.
Both just serve as a "Talk about stuff not-related to FFT here" forum. They are both off-topic forums.
If you want me to bring up examples that prove what I'm saying is true, I will.
Claiming that one is different from the other because you want to pass judgment on which topics are "serious" and which ones are "just random jokes" is a very bad reason to disagree with this.
The proposed merger is not with the purpose of eliminating a "serious" section (General, which is more like an Off-Topic FFT section to begin with) or getting rid of a random section (Spam, which is also just an Off-Topic FFT section), it's to save space because both forums share the exact same function right now.
The only reason people post the more "serious" topics in the General forum instead of Spam forum is because they don't want their more serious ideas being categorized as "Spam".
I assure you that if Spam was re-named to "Off-Topic" you'd see people posting "serious" posts there instead of in General. Hell, they already do.
QuoteThe only reason the general section shows spam is because it doesn't have a set of rules and no moderator.
Then what's the reason the spam section shows general topics?
Quote from: "Voldemort"If you want me to bring up examples that prove what I'm saying is true, I will.
Quote from: "Voldemort"You can't cherry pick particular examples
look at the entire forums dude, not just 1 thread
I can cherry pick threads that say exactly the opposite of what you're claiming, just as easily!!
Don't bother.
Quote from: "Voldemort"Spam topics and general topics have little to no distinction.
Both have non-FFT-Related things people want to share with FFH.
Both have random nonsense topics for fun.
Both have semi-serious topics as well.
Both just serve as a "Talk about stuff not-related to FFT here" forum. They are both off-topic forums.
There is a distinction between the individual topics. Just because both kinds have popped up in both sub-forums doesn't mean there shouldn't be a clearer distinction placed on both forums. Most forums that have a spam section also have a place for non-spam off-topics. And it works well.
Quote from: "Voldemort"Claiming that one is different from the other because you want to pass judgment on which topics are "serious" and which ones are "just random jokes" is a very bad reason to disagree with this.
I haven't passed judgment on anyone's topics, but there are clearly topics in General that are meant to be serious in far greater numbers than in Spam. We don't see huge numbers of serious posts in Spam because everyone understands what Spam is for.
Quote from: "Voldemort"The proposed merger is not with the purpose of eliminating a "serious" section (General, which is more like an Off-Topic FFT section to begin with) or getting rid of a random section (Spam, which is also just an Off-Topic FFT section), it's to save space because both forums share the exact same function right now.
I fail to see how this would save any space. Moving topics into one sub-forum would net you what? One line less on the front page? What is that, like a few Kb? We'd still have the same number of post unless some are deleted.
Quote from: "Voldemort"The only reason people post the more "serious" topics in the General forum instead of Spam forum is because they don't want their more serious ideas being categorized as "Spam".
Then why deprive those ppl of that distinction?
Quote from: "Voldemort"I assure you that if Spam was re-named to "Off-Topic" you'd see people posting "serious" posts there instead of in General. Hell, they already do.
It's like saying a bobcat and a house cat are the same thing because they're both feline. Changing the house cat into an ocelot wouldn't prove your point, because you would have changed the nature of the beast anyway. (OK. Not the best analogy, but whatever.)
Since the purpose of the forum isn't implicitly stated changing the title would be tantamount to changing it's purpose. Off-Topic =/= Spam.
Quote from: "Voldemort"Then what's the reason the spam section shows general topics?
Because the author thought it was spam as opposed to serious, or didn't acknowledge a distinction between off-topic and spam. Also, there are no rules in spam as it should be.
Quote from: "Vanya"I haven't passed judgment on anyone's topics, but there are clearly topics in General that are meant to be serious in far greater numbers than in Spam. We don't see huge numbers of serious posts in Spam because everyone understands what Spam is for.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't have serious off topic topics differentiated from joke off topic topics, I'm saying that they are both off topic topics and belong in the same off topic forum
QuoteI fail to see how this would save any space. Moving topics into one sub-forum would net you what? One line less on the front page?
Yup. 1 less forum on the front page. 1 Off Topic forum instead of the 2 we have now which are a waste of space.
QuoteThen why deprive those ppl of that distinction?
Because FFH has a growing number of forums, just in case you aren't aware, new projects get their own forum sections, and I assure you more forum sections will be added.
It is in FFH's best interest to keep the number off extra not-so-necessary forums (like the two off topics we are running now) to a minimum. That is why merging our 2 off topic forums is a good idea.
And yes saving space and reducing the number of redundant forums is a good idea.
QuoteSince the purpose of the forum isn't implicitly stated changing the title would be tantamount to changing it's purpose. Off-Topic =/= Spam.
Spam = Off Topic Topics
General = Off Topic Topics
Off Topic = Off Topic
We don't need 2 forums for the same function when 1 will suffice
QuoteBecause the author thought it was spam as opposed to serious, or didn't acknowledge a distinction between off-topic and spam. Also, there are no rules in spam as it should be.
There would be no rules in the merged forum, as an off topic forum should be.
stop saying spam is off-topic; it's bi, for fuck's sake.
Quote from: "Voldemort"Quote from: "Smitson"its pretty easy to see the difference between general and spam..
Spam:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953)
General:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2906)
Although slightly similar theres still a major difference
You can't cherry pick particular examples
look at the entire forums dude, not just 1 thread
I can cherry pick threads that say exactly the opposite of what you're claiming, just as easily!!
here look, I'll do it now:
"Jokez thread" in General:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2912 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2912)
"Serious thread" in Spam
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2874 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2874)
cherry picking doesn't prove much
Yes but how many of those jokes threads do you see in general? Not very many. The only one I see right now is TRC saying he wants to be mod(unless he was serious idk I never looked in that topic recently). In spam I don't see one serious thread.
Once again, thats not the norm. What do a few misplaced topics prove? General is more of - Doesnt fit into any other category but still serious. Spam is just whatever stupid random shit pops in your mind. All general needs is a mod, so all the real spam shit stays there. Then I belive everything will be cleaned up.
I can find more joke threads in general if you want me to
and even more "serious" topics in spam
because the line between what constitutes a "spam topic" and a "general topic" is extremely blurry (plz guys dont make me repeat this again)
that line is so blurry and completely dependent on each person's opinion, and that is why you will always see the off-topic similarity between the two forums as long as they are separate
Quote from: "Voldemort"that line is so blurry and completely dependent on each person's opinion, and that is why you will always see the off-topic similarity between the two forums as long as they are separate
I can respect you stance on this, because you are right in that regard. The only problem with your stance is you are not arguing the fact that keeps being brought up. Without proving this fact wrong a merger will never happen.
The fact is, as just stated General is for a serious thread that does not fit anywhere else, and spam is just the random bullshit.
^Find something wrong with that please. Prove it wrong and I will agree with you, no I think we will all agree if that fact can be proven false.
Quote from: "darthpaul"The fact is, as just stated General is for a serious thread that does not fit anywhere else, and spam is just the random bullshit.
^Find something wrong with that please. Prove it wrong and I will agree with you, no I think we will all agree if that fact can be proven false.
I already did, all over this thread... But I'll repeat it again I guess.
The "intended" purpose of General and Spam is just an ideal purpose if people used them as they were "intended" to be used. That statement is wrong because people are NOT using these 2 forums as they were "intended" to be used, obviously. As I said before, "Ideal Purpose" =/= "Actual Function" of these two forums.
Governments are
supposed to support and defend the people and
never harm them, but in reality it doesn't always work this way. So people ask for changes and re-forms.
What is the reality of the situation in this example? The intended flawless purpose of government? Or the actual reality of what's going on?
And supposing the statement WAS true (and it's not), a merger is STILL a good idea, because it simply drops the count of OFF TOPIC forums from 2 to 1,
when 1 off-topic forum is more than enough on a site that should be concentrating it's efforts on hacking in the first place.
Then we should just nuke to social Forums, Voldemort. I din't see you post in most hacks sections lately, besides yours.
FFH won't adapt... members will!
I looked into the subforums idea and it seems rather troublesome. I would take me about one hour to fully implement it.
Quote from: "Kokojo"Then we should just nuke to social Forums, Voldemort.
This forum is for Site Suggestions / Bugs , and I'm not going to suggest that Zodiac remove all social forums on his own site, because that's not what I'm proposing. But if you want to take it that far, you are welcome to make your own topic about killing of all social discussion.
QuoteI din't see you post in most hacks sections lately, besides yours.
and?
QuoteI looked into the subforums idea and it seems rather troublesome. I would take me about one hour to fully implement it.
Sub-forums for all categories (FFT Hacking, Projects, Off Topic) doesn't seem like a bad idea, it's what Asmo suggested way back. That's not what I am suggesting here, though. I am just suggesting merging Spam and General and keeping it no Post Counting, no Moderation, off Topic threads, anything goes, serious or not - AS LONG as it's off topic to FFT and FFT hacking. (Which means everything that is in Spam and General right now basically)
Quote from: "Voldemort"The "intended" purpose of General and Spam is just an ideal purpose if people used them as they were "intended" to be used. That statement is wrong because people are NOT using these 2 forums as they were "intended" to be used, obviously. As I said before, "Ideal Purpose" =/= "Actual Function" of these two forums.
I have a problem with this "proof". The problem is simply that the intended purpose of the section is what is under fire. The fact that the actual function does not fit the ideal is a matter of Zodiac not bothering to moderate as often as he should (not his fault I just assume he is busy, as are we all). You can't say "well let's scrap it" because something is going wrong.
QuoteGovernments are supposed to support and defend the people and never harm them, but in reality it doesn't always work this way. So people ask for changes and re-forms.
This is a horrible example as you have handed me some ammo for my argument. When a government does not work for it's people they make reforms (hence the let's have a moderator for General). If the government continues to not work then it is abolished (which would be the equivalent of closing down half of the forums except for the sections related strictly to hacking and patching tools). What you are suggesting would be like making political parties merge, which does not happen because the ideals brought to the table by each faction are radical compared to the other faction.
QuoteI have a problem with this "proof". The problem is simply that the intended purpose of the section is what is under fire.
The intended purpose of the section
is what you are using to argue that they should not be merged.Seriously, are you trolling?
QuoteThe fact that the actual function does not fit the ideal is a matter of Zodiac not bothering to moderate as often as he should (not his fault I just assume he is busy, as are we all). You can't say "well let's scrap it" because something is going wrong.
No, but I can say "let's improve it" because something is going wrong, and it is. Merging them is not scrapping anything, you'll still have your serious topics and your joke topics. They will just be in the same forum, the off topic forum, where they belong.
QuoteThis is a horrible example as you have handed me some ammo for my argument.
The purpose of the example flew right by you I'm guessing, especially if you think it gives you "ammo" for anything.
QuoteWhat you are suggesting would be like making political parties merge, which does not happen because the ideals brought to the table by each faction are radical compared to the other faction.
Nope, because each forum doesn't represent a unique political party. The example was to try and explain how some things that work in principle might not do so in practice, such as having 2 off topic forums when only 1 is needed.
If you're going to try and use an example as "ammo", make sure you understand it properly, and not just twist it to construct what you think comes close to a semblance of a rebuttal.
QuoteThe purpose of the example flew right by you I'm guessing, especially if you think it gives you "ammo" for anything.
I didn't miss anything, but the incessant reiteration of previous belligerency is enough to make one wonder if this might be a troll on your part.
Quote from: "Zodiac"FFH won't adapt... members will!
Follow the advice from the admin okay. He has proven himself to be wise enough so I think he knows what is best for
his forum. If he didn't I think he would be intelligent enough to hand the duties to someone else. And he has not done that.
I still think they are worth staying separate. I hardly check spam, because I find the quality of posts in there ON AVERAGE is very low and not much is posted there that I care to read. In General I find the AVERAGE quality of post is much higher and I tend to read every post in there and find it at least moderately interesting unless it's drivel about soft drinks and the speed at which they seem to disappear or the like.
I think it works fine as it is. Some people occasionally break the 'not so official rule' of the forums and get their signals crossed, but I certainly don't want them merged and see a new post in the spam/general board and click it only to find it's another addition to the brilliant 'never ending FFT' topic. (That was kind of a joke, just wanted to add a dig on that topic)
moved to p7
If I had the time to do it I'd volunteer to moderate General myself.
As is, this constant arguing over the pros and cons of this merger is wasting way more space than a single link to a separate group of posts ever could.
QuoteI didn't miss anything, but the incessant reiteration of previous belligerency is enough to make one wonder if this might be a troll on your part.
I'm not trying to be belligerent, but you are forcing me to re-state things which have already been brought up in this thread, and are pretty obvious, such as my entire previous post. If you seriously think I made this topic to try and troll you or anyone else you are not only mistaken, but seems to suggest that you came into this topic with no intention of agreeing or disagreeing with the idea itself, just to post like you always do for posting's sake.
I already explained to you why you're wrong. Just because I proved that not wanting the merger because of ideological reasons is wrong doesn't mean I'm trolling. In this topic I am seriously putting forth an idea that I think will improve the site.
Quoteincessant reiteration of previous belligerency is LOL WAT
Using big words won't make the pwning you got in my previous post any less severe, DP. Next time you try to argue with an idea I am submitting strictly to help improve the site, be prepared to argue with something besides blank posting like you always do.
QuoteFollow the advice from the admin okay. He has proven himself to be wise enough so I think he knows what is best for his forum. If he didn't I think he would be intelligent enough to hand the duties to someone else. And he has not done that.
I'm not saying I won't accept whatever decision Zodiac chooses to go with, I think I have shown that I have no problems with his decisions in the past. I'm not saying that Zodiac isn't wise, or that he isn't going to end up doing what he wants to do. I am not saying Zodiac is not intelligent. I don't even know where you get all of this from, or how it's related.
I am not even sure why you are bringing all of this up, it has nothing to do with this topic or the idea I'm trying to submit to improve the site.
You didn't even respond to anything I said in my previous post, so please stop spamming my topic.
I have shit for credibility, but I agree with Arch. I don't see how merging will negatively impact the forum. If people don't want shitty spam posts in serious topics, get a moderator like most good forums do.
Removing the post count from general isn't a horrible idea. But who really cares about post count? Is it that big a deal? But the forum isn't overly cluttered. Just because their sub forums doesn't mean their similar.
Really there's 3 options here
1. Merge General & Spam
2. Keep everything the same
3. Give General a mod
One of your main arguements for merging is neither of them directly relate to hacking so therefor they're the same. General is has some good quality posts, your telling me you want the stuff like the CE discussion mixed in with bullshit posts yelling penis? People try to stay away from spam, mixing it in with general will only fuck over general. Give general a mod so it gets the more serious feel and spam can stay the way it is. So like i've already stated, people who don't want to see that bullshit can aviod it.
QuoteUsing big words won't make the pwning you got in my previous post any less severe, DP. Next time you try to argue with an idea I am submitting strictly to help improve the site, be prepared to argue with something besides blank posting like you always do.
I have to give it too you. You have set a new level of posts that amount to pure BS. The words you are saying that are "big" are some of the simplest words in the English language. If you want big words say so and I'll bust out the vocab. Also "pwning"....you didn't pwn me, and I don't know why you think that.
So I think you are mentioning these "blank posts" to piss me off as I have only made posts that I find necessary. So (and I say this with respect for the Voldemort I used to know and the ideas that made 1.3) please do us a favor and FUCK OFF. Ever since the MagiTek/Jukain incidences you have become a prick. All that ever comes out of you is self righteous bullshit, and you need to rethink your attitude towards of people for Christ's sakes. You used to be fun to argument with, now you are just getting personal for no god damn reason.
EDIT: I wasn't trolling until now, but lets face it I don't give a damn what you think anymore.
I'm not getting personal, I am seriously saying that you started arguing the merger idea with no worthwhile ones of your own.
I am not mentioning blank posting to piss you off, I am mentioning blank posting because you are doing it in this thread.
And yes, your argument did get pwned, you still have not yet replied to my points here:
Quote from: "Voldemort"QuoteI have a problem with this "proof". The problem is simply that the intended purpose of the section is what is under fire.
The intended purpose of the section is what you are using to argue that they should not be merged.
Seriously, are you trolling?
QuoteThe fact that the actual function does not fit the ideal is a matter of Zodiac not bothering to moderate as often as he should (not his fault I just assume he is busy, as are we all). You can't say "well let's scrap it" because something is going wrong.
No, but I can say "let's improve it" because something is going wrong, and it is. Merging them is not scrapping anything, you'll still have your serious topics and your joke topics. They will just be in the same forum, the off topic forum, where they belong.
QuoteThis is a horrible example as you have handed me some ammo for my argument.
The purpose of the example flew right by you I'm guessing, especially if you think it gives you "ammo" for anything.
QuoteWhat you are suggesting would be like making political parties merge, which does not happen because the ideals brought to the table by each faction are radical compared to the other faction.
Nope, because each forum doesn't represent a unique political party. The example was to try and explain how some things that work in principle might not do so in practice, such as having 2 off topic forums when only 1 is needed.
If you're going to try and use an example as "ammo", make sure you understand it properly, and not just twist it to construct what you think comes close to a semblance of a rebuttal.
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Instead of responding to my points, you went: "o lol, you are being belligerent! listen to what zodiac said, he is the admin!".
Repeating it here: if you had nothing worthwhile to say about the idea besides some shitty argument, do not continue to spam my topic. Repeat: This isn't me trying to make it personal, this is actually what I think regarding you posting in this topic.
QuoteI have to give it too you. You have set a new level of posts that amount to pure BS. The words you are saying that are "big" are some of the simplest words in the English language. If you want big words say so and I'll bust out the vocab. Also "pwning"....you didn't pwn me, and I don't know why you think that.
When I said "big words" I meant "specific words thrown out there that do not add anything to whatever the fuck it is you're trying to say", which is a de-railing of the original argument into "OMG YOU ARE BELIGERENT CUZ I CANNOT COUNTER YOUR POINTS!". This is why you got pwned, the points I quoted above you never replied to, and instead decided to take the "he's being belligerent, I can't argue with this guy... too belligerent over the internet!" route.
When you argue at someone only to call them "belligerent, listen to the admin, okay?" on their own thread, it speaks volumes about your original intent (or lack thereof) to try and improve or help the suggestion being presented.
This is where it becomes painfully obvious that you were just blank posting here, posting for posting's sake, or just for argument's sake. You opted out of the actual argument about the idea long ago to instead try to make yourself seem less wrong by calling me belligerent, and telling me than I'm not listening to Zodiac, therefor my idea must be wrong.
Quoteplease do us a favor and FUCK OFF.
Yeah, you got owned. Merging is a good idea despite everything against it anyone has said on this thread. Sorry bro.
Both General and Spam are off-topic but that does not mean they should be merged. Its like mixing an insoluble solid into water, all you get is a cloudy mess, a confusing mix of topics. Even when it has settled it'd still be very tedious to find what you want. Just stop people from posting crap in General.
Quote from: "Aquilae"all you get is a cloudy mess, a confusing mix of topics. Even when it has settled it'd still be very tedious to find what you want.
you talk like Spam or General contained important topics that must be kept organized or else they won't function
why people treat spam and general topics with the same seriousness as project threads is beyond me
in fact, spam is probably as big or bigger than the biggest project forum, merge it with general, and it's surely bigger
I don't care of Spam + General merge end up being "confusing" in any way, it's all off topic banter, it doesn't need to be organized
maybe it'll deter those members who exist on this site only on spam / general threads, like we needed more of them
You still haven't come up with any concrete reasons to merge.
You just keep repeating your opinion that if both kinds of topics are "off" they should be in one forum to save what amounts to a line of text. You also keep reasoning that the presence of some spam in general and some general in spam is proof that they are the same. Meanwhile, you flippantly disregard the intent of the majority of posters or the lack of rules in either forum.
Just because there are some crows among a flock ravens, and some ravens among a flock of crows doesn't make them all the same species.
(That's a much better analogy.)
BTW. No offense, but if you have to point out that you pwned someone then you didn't pwn anyone.
Quote from: "Voldemort"Quote from: "Aquilae"all you get is a cloudy mess, a confusing mix of topics. Even when it has settled it'd still be very tedious to find what you want.
you talk like Spam or General contained important topics that must be kept organized or else they won't function
why people treat spam and general topics with the same seriousness as project threads is beyond me
in fact, spam is probably as big or bigger than the biggest project forum, merge it with general, and it's surely bigger
I don't care of Spam + General merge end up being "confusing" in any way, it's all off topic banter, it doesn't need to be organized
maybe it'll deter those members who exist on this site only on spam / general threads, like we needed more of them
Alright I get where your coming from now. You think that general is just some crap useless section. Just because it's off topic, doesn't mean its complete shit. General has some good solid discussion in it.
...and spam -REALLY- doesn't.
Maybe we should just let Arch win...
Just a suggestion.
no you shouldnt. its the same thing with customers at my job. if they complain enough, even if they are wrong, they get their way. fuck that
Why are we arguing about something that essentially comes down to a few additional pixels being displayed on the main forum page?
If zodiac wants them split, so be it. Even if I or anyone else disagrees, it's not worth the debate. It's pretty damn inconsequential either way.
Quote from: "Vanya"...and spam -REALLY- doesn't.
Are you suggesting getting rid of Spam?
QuoteYou still haven't come up with any concrete reasons to merge.
1) Both forums serve the same purpose, because:
2) People don't use both forums in the way they were meant to be used
3) Either forum is a waste of space when 1 could do the job of both
4) FFH would do better with less forums dedicated to off topic while the # of project forums increases
Do you really think those are bad reasons to merge?
Quoteno you shouldnt. its the same thing with customers at my job. if they complain enough, even if they are wrong, they get their way. fuck that
I am not in favor of anyone agreeing with me just to get me to shut up, that's what this thread is for
I obviously don't think this idea is a bad one or that it's "wrong", and I am sure others agree, and I am not some customer at your job bitching about something. I already said I genuinely think this is a suggestion to improve FFH!
QuoteYou think that general is just some crap useless section. Just because it's off topic, doesn't mean its complete shit. General has some good solid discussion in it.
No. I think that having BOTH Spam AND General leaves us with 1 extra useless section. If I had to pick, I'd get rid of Spam and keep General, obviously. Then all true Spam topics would have to be made civil with actual interesting content worth reading so they'd fit in General.
QuoteBTW. No offense, but if you have to point out that you pwned someone then you didn't pwn anyone.
None taken. I usually don't point that out, but his argument was really that bad.
QuoteYou just keep repeating your opinion... You also keep reasoning that...
Yes, because I keep presenting good reasons like the ones I just gave you and people dismiss them with cherry picking, non-related comments, or just general disregard for the fact that people DO NOT use these 2 forums as they were meant to be used, as well as the fact that they are indeed 2 OFF TOPIC forums. That is not my opinion, that is what they are.
QuoteThen all true Spam topics would have to be made civil with actual interesting content worth reading so they'd fit in General.
In other words, you want Spam to become General.
Quote from: "Dokurider"QuoteThen all true Spam topics would have to be made civil with actual interesting content worth reading so they'd fit in General.
In other words, you want Spam to become General.
No. Read the entire paragraph:
QuoteYou think that general is just some crap useless section. Just because it's off topic, doesn't mean its complete shit. General has some good solid discussion in it.
Voldemort's Reply: No. I think that having BOTH Spam AND General leaves us with 1 extra useless section.
(Rhetorical example which you obviously missed): If I had to pick, I'd get rid of Spam and keep General, obviously. Then all true Spam topics would have to be made civil with actual interesting content worth reading so they'd fit in General.
I was giving an example based on the idea I was quoting.
I want Spam and General to become THE SAME OFF TOPIC FORUM. I want to merge them, not delete one or the other. Read topic title bro!
With this merge, Spam will become General or rather, Spam will be no more, that's what I meant.
I think this whole issue is caused by an even deeper issue: the lack of formal rules. If there is an issue here in the first place (there isn't).
Quote from: "Dokurider"With this merge, Spam will become General or rather, Spam will be no more, that's what I meant.
That's still not what the merger idea is. Spam will still exist, because in the merged forum, you can make spam topics, because spam topics are just that, off topic random stuff, which is what the new forum would be for. Except the new forum would also happen to have off topic that is not so random and a bit more interesting (the off topics you guys think belong in general). That's basically it.
This idea is not Spam --> General or General --> Spam. It's just merging them both and keeping them both rule-free and moderation-free.
Whatever rules Zodiac wants to put in his forums is fine by me. This thread is NOT ABOUT discussing rules, just about suggesting why merging General and Spam into one is a good idea.
I still support Voldemort with my 500 posts.