Final Fantasy Hacktics

The original focus of SoR Classes was an elemental theme. And now that i know what the fuck im doing, i can happily say im bringing that into full focus. If your upset about the choice, then please read the last 2 paragraphs, i assure i dont do this just cause it sounds cool. theres plenty of reasons.

Each class will have elements assigned to them. Just as there are only 8 elements though, there are only 8 pure classes. This means 1 class soley devoted to fire, one class to earth and so forth. Each class has a weakness to it, its opposing element

Each has a strenght and weakness, as demonstrated by this small text diagram.

Circle of Elements: fire>ice>wind>earth>lightning>water>fire

Each element to the left is what it is week against. the element to the right of it is what it is strong against. So earth would be week to wind, but strong against lightning.

Each of these pure elements absorbs their own element, and takes half damage from the element they are strong against.

That leaves alot of space for other classes doesn't it? Lol, the other classes consist of "Dual Element" Classes. That is, certain levels in two different pure classes will unlock a dual element class. Such as Lich.

Lich requires 4 levels in the Ice pure, and 5 levels in the Dark Pure. The trade off for using a dual element is...well you get two use more elemental attacks taht enemies may be weak to. But you also get to mix and match abilities. The Lich has a few status, a few more buffs, and little offense. It combines attributes from both its pure classes.

Dual elements half both of the elements they have. they do not absorb anything.



The reason behind this is alot of balance. When was the last time you saw someones OP team lose against a random battle? you ever seen a team of 5 vanilla ninjas lose against a chocobo or two and a goblin?

With this circle, no matter how OP you think your character is, there is always something out there to counter it. If my PyroBlade is near orlando levels, then my Water Pure must be orlando riding worker #8 with two ninjas strapped to its feet. Only to the pyroblade at least. the Lightning pure will make quick work if you arent tactical or thinking about what your doing. Basically if you think youll get by with using the same 5 classes throughout the entire game, your going to have a tough time.

Plus thinking about how to kill an enemy is fun! right?

My favorite new mechanic.

Have you decided on what the 8 pure and however many hybrid classes will be yet? I remember some of the ones from the last incarnation, like the golem and the pyroblade, but what others?

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Have you decided on what the 8 pure and however many hybrid classes will be yet? I remember some of the ones from the last incarnation, like the golem and the pyroblade, but what others?

Yes we worked out the classes and most of the skills.

The pures where fun, but the ideas still need a bit of work.

This (and rage) are excellent ideas. Reminds me of why I love this project. Very innovative and totally shakes up the traditional game.

Light and Dark are weak against each other, IIRC. Also, I thought we agreed on halfing your own element?

QuoteYes we worked out the classes and most of the skills.

The pures where fun, but the ideas still need a bit of work.

Any chance you could make these viewable for discussion and input?

This is certainly an interesting approach, but what will you do about physical and magical leanings?  Will all of them be hybrids capable of both?  Will some pures favor magic and others favor physical?  How will you decide which does what?  It's great to have elements play a bigger role in things, but if I ever make a patch, I think I'll leave the elements to the armors.  I feel there would be much more flexibility that way.  One thing this really does accomplish though is it prevents there being just one or two specific jobs used for magical offense the way Summoners and Black Mages are used in vanilla and 1.3.  That's something I'm struggling with in the concepts I toy with from time to time.  That and the wonkyness in the job tree if I make a mage type character for each element.  Unlike you, I'm not so willing to make tons of jobs available from the very beginning.  (And making all the mages available at the start and make the melee jobs have to progress through a tree just looks bad.)  It's for a pretty minor and relatively stupid reason though.  I wouldn't mind a patch that did so, even if I would not do so myself.

Hopefully you don't mind my rambling.  In a nutshell, it's not something I would put in a patch of my making, but it is something I'm interested in seeing implemented in yours.

Only 3 classes are basic. Some are more magic based, others more physical, rest are hybrids. Everyone has at least one element. That does not make them all mages. SB has the most complete list of chat logs and notes, so he might send them to you.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought they would be all mages.  It's just that in my own work, I would probably avoid elemental physical jobs.  I favor elemental weapons over elemental physical skills.  That means I would leave it to the mages to have elemental alignments.  That bias probably leaked through in what I was saying.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"I didn't mean to imply that I thought they would be all mages.  It's just that in my own work, I would probably avoid elemental physical jobs.  I favor elemental weapons over elemental physical skills.  That means I would leave it to the mages to have elemental alignments.  That bias probably leaked through in what I was saying.

The reason we chose this format is to stray from normal conventions.

If it makes you feel better, everyone is a mage pretty much but some of them focus more on physical magics and others on spells.

That actually clears up a separate question I had.  I also applaud having something different from the norm.  I didn't mean for what I said to be advise of any sort, for the record.  Simply my impressions and what I would do (in order to explain my viewpoint for my impressions a little better).

It does bring up another question though.  Do you give any weapons elemental attributes?  What reasoning was used for that decision?

most weapons do, in fact have elemental properties, this allows some tweaking of elemental properties, so you don't HAVE to bring water pures to fight fire pures, and can just bring fire pures equiped with water element weapons, for instance, and then still have the fire pure abilities for fighting ice types, it won't be quite as effective as bringing the water pure, but it allows for more flexibility in unit set up.

This is one of the best ideas I've ever seen, though it for some reason reminds me of the "half wind" discussion .

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"That actually clears up a separate question I had.  I also applaud having something different from the norm.  I didn't mean for what I said to be advise of any sort, for the record.  Simply my impressions and what I would do (in order to explain my viewpoint for my impressions a little better).

It does bring up another question though.  Do you give any weapons elemental attributes?  What reasoning was used for that decision?

Never thought you where trying to push anything on us. I trust your opinions enough to know that that is what they are.

Also as Skippy said I like the ability to mix and match weapons and classes for the utmost flexibility.

Also I had no idea this would come so far as an element of the game when I pitched it. I just had the thought of Pokemon being completely balanced on an element system. Gave the idea to Sent and look what he came up with.

Proud to be a part of this one buddy.

Quote from: "darthpaul"I just had the thought of Pokemon being completely balanced on an element system.

That's a lie and you know it =p The element system for Pokemon is hardly balanced. It's all about Dragon, Steel and Ice.

Hopefully, with the element system, all classes will get used fairly equally, instead of everybody rushing Martial Arts Ninja's.

Quote from: "FFMaster"

Quote from: "darthpaul"I just had the thought of Pokemon being completely balanced on an element system.

That's a lie and you know it =p The element system for Pokemon is hardly balanced. It's all about Dragon, Steel and Ice.

Hopefully, with the element system, all classes will get used fairly equally, instead of everybody rushing Martial Arts Ninja's.

Dragon can be owned by ice, steel is nothing against flames(water should work too, it doesn't say "stainless steel"), and Ice has a multitude of weakness.

Though I see your point. I just mean to say that Pokemon's system is where the idea originated.

Most classes have a main focus, for the pures at least.

The hybrids are a combination. As such as the Fire+Water Hrybrid. Fire is offensive, Water is a supportive. So the Fire+water will use both stats effectivly, but if you want to excell in an area, you would want to level in a pure that has good growths in either magical or physical stats.

Dark + Ice is Buff Supportive and Magic Offense, so obviously it would use magic. This is an example of the exception to the "combination stat" rule. Basically its to allow you to play the class you want, instead of having a mage FORCED to focus on MA to do excellent damage, you can DECIDE if thats what you want to do now.

Ill post the classes and proposed abilities and rage cost/generation later

Woah. This sounds great. It's a total remake of the game basic mechanics... reminds me of Pokemon or Hoshigami

Very nice!

Did you decide on each elemental Main focus yet? Do you need help on that?

Grabbing some ideas form other people post's and some random ideas:

Fire -> Offensive
Water -> Support
Dark -> Magic Offense
Holy -> Healing (restorative)
Ice -> Debuff
Wind -> Mixed
Earth -> Support (strenght, physycal, buff)
Lightning -> Offensive

From our notes:

Fire -> Highly offensive
Ice -> Mix of damage and support
Wind -> Healing
Earth -> Defensive
Lighting -> Offensive
Water -> Mixed
Dark -> Like fire, less offensive more defensive

Wind always strikes me as focusing less on damage and more on range or AoE effects.

Water tends to be slapped with healing roles in games focusing on elemental wheels that lack a specific holy or healing element.

I've got several inquiries about fire and lightning.  Why are they both purely offensive?  Why is one stronger than the other if the other doesn't have a secondary focus?  Have you considered making Fire be more raw power offensive and lightning be speedy offensive?

Ice says it is a mix of damage and support.  What is Water a mix of?

What is Holy?

My ideas

Element     -     Power     -     AoE     -     Vertical   -     Other

Fire           -     Mid         -    High     -     Low         -   n/a

Ice            -    High        -    Low      -     Low         -  inflict Don't Move, Slow or Stop, depending on spell

Thunder     -    Mid          -    Low      -    High         -   n/a

Wind         -    Mid*         -    Mid       -    Mid          - *Low damage/High healing* and negative status removal

Earth         -    Mid          -    Mid        -    Mid         -   moderate offense, positive status effects

Water       -    Mid          -    High      -    Mid         -   damage + healing, minor positive/negative status

Holy         -    Mid          -    Low       -    Mid       -    damage + positive status removal, revival

Dark        -    Mid          -    Low       -    Mid        -   damage + negative status infliction

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Wind always strikes me as focusing less on damage and more on range or AoE effects.

Water tends to be slapped with healing roles in games focusing on elemental wheels that lack a specific holy or healing element.

I've got several inquiries about fire and lightning.  Why are they both purely offensive?  Why is one stronger than the other if the other doesn't have a secondary focus?  Have you considered making Fire be more raw power offensive and lightning be speedy offensive?

Ice says it is a mix of damage and support.  What is Water a mix of?

What is Holy?

Holy is a mediatoresque class, I think. The rest are the way they are based on hours of thinking of reasons and not getting much other than"being a bit different". IIRC

If you ask me, I agree with Lighting being speedy offensive, fire raw power, and wind with range/AoE. Why not make water a quick, less potent healing/defensive support role? Holy should be pure defensive, having strong healing. That leaves Ice in a strange position, though. It could be more offensive than water and less supportive. Maybe weak buff and moderate damage?