FFT Prequel: "On the Skulls of Dragons"

[The Damned]

I was going to do this on December 1st or even later than that, but I figured that I'd keep putting of posting this thread when it's one of the only things that's going to keep me motivated. (That I wanted to needlessly be the 100th thread. Yay uselessness!)


First and foremost, even if no one is really interested, I'm doing it anyway because I want to. Although I'm sure that I'm going to end up putting off for a while, so I'll need people to help kick me in the ass when need be.

(I said when need be. *glare*)


Secondly, I suppose I should say why I'm doing a prequel. Well, even before the various Ramza-based sequels/spinoffs popped up (sans Mercenaries, since that was underway even before I joined the forum), I've been more interested in the past of FFT, especially since not much is disclosed. (I'm currently a History major, so this isn't really surprising.) I then spurred to action by Lydyn's "Shuushin" patch, which, yes, I am still playtesting, albeit very slowly due to having only one resurrection skill right now, which is Faith-based and tends to cause me to reset if it misses.

Particularly, I wanted to focus on how the East came to Ivalice to since it's not really touched and there are just randomly Ninja and Samurai and Martials Artists (oh my!) smack dab in the middle of my (post-apocalyptic) medieval fantasy.

(Granted, it's from Japan, but AFAIK, Fire Emblem is pretty much strictly medieval European as are a lot of other Japanese games; I haven't played any of the Fire Emblems, though, so I may be wrong.)

On top of that, I also wanted to focus how some monsters, particularly the Dragon, are really rather weak and stupid compared to the cliche fantasy counterparts. I always found that odd despite not being a fan of dragons much.


Next, I guess I should say that tone for this game is currently meant to be a more tongue-in cheek thing, a sardonic love letter like I Wanna Be the Guy, though I'm not sure if I want it to be as unforgiving as that game. (I want it to be pretty unforgiving, though, especially since I have a particularly nasty last set of battles in game, one after the other after the other. )


Then, with that said, I suppose I should get into specifics before this post gets any longer since I know how lazy some people on the Internet can be.

Most importantly, with specifics, I will say this: Due to the nature of this game, all Eastern-based classes will be removed from player-based control, meaning that on the job for players, Monk, Samurai, Ninja, and Oracle will be replaced by something else as to be specified below. Similarly, once I get Chemist to stop being a whiny little cunt, I intend to remove all things Item-related, i.e. Auto Potion, store-bought Items, move-find Items (though not Move-Find Item itself), Throw Item, etc. Unlike the above four classes, it will probably be impossible to actually find a Chemist in-game outside of story purposes since I'm going to have them be greedy little bastards.

I've yet to decide if I want to get rid of Calculator entirely since I don't want Math Skill around and yet I just don't want to blatantly copy 1.3 Calculator.

Specifically, the aforementioned classes will be replaced by:

• Chemist --> Illusionist
• Monk --> Hunter
• Oracle --> Blue Mage
• Ninja --> Berserker
• Samurai --> Gambler (As of December 12th, 2008, I have decided that Gambler will be fifth and final new generic class for this patch; now, if only I can get Samurai, Ninja, and Chemist to work--also, Lancer.

I've done quite a lot of work so far, but only with regards to FFTPatcher and, even then, I haven't touched ENTD yet or anything since I've been learning about it slowly. I've mostly changed monsters (who will actually leave up to their name, now) and classes and abilities and have just recently started to screw around with equipment seriously.

That said, pretty much all classes got something new or at least some make-over outside of Geomancer (at the moment):

• Squire: Completely different now. They have 16 skills since they are only-base class now. They are meant to actually be useful without having Accumulate now, but will probably still end being middling like they should be. After all, their begins.
• Knight: Gained one new skill alongside the 1.3 Ruin skills to replace the stat Breaks. They'll probably get two relpacement skills since I'm going to...well, I won't spoil that since I'm paranoid as is.
• Archer: Completely different since Charge sucks ass. (I'm still currently annoyed that we can't use the Charge or Jump or Item or Math Skill spaces for anything. One day....)
• Mediator: Not really changed so far. Unfortunately, most of the changes I've made, due to the current restriction with Talk Skill formula, means that most of their abilities aren't blocked by Finger Guard, which greatly annoys me since that skill was already useless.
• Black Mage: Lost the Tier 4 spells and gained 3 "new" spells to compensate. They may lose Death eventually as well along with Poison.
• White Mage: Lost Cure 4 and gained 2 new spells. They may well probably lose Protect 2 and Shell 2 since those are still kind of useless.
• Time Mage: Currently haven't lost anything. Meteor has been changed a bit, though they may lose it anyway. Gained two new skills. May lose Haste 2 and Slow 2.
• Summoner: Currently have lost Lich, though they may get back. Golem has currently been completely changed and nerfed to Hell. Gained a test spell that may be traded out for a new non-Summon ability. A few elementals changed.
• Thief: Currently have gained 8 new skills, but they will probably not keep all of them. I've yet to play test these new abilities.
• Lancer: They are going to lose all Jumps (unfortunately) and be far more-oriented towards Dragons. They will, however, NOT be Dragoners.
• Bard: A lot has changed, though I've yet to play test them yet. They've been buffed with regards variety, but have been nerfed with regards to distance.
• Dancer: Same as Bard, of course.
• Mime: Same as 1.3 Mime, except, unlike Voldemort7 currently, I remembered to make them immune to Dead and Undead as well. They won't be able to mimic everything that generics can do, namely the Berserker class, but have gained some additional Mime-fitting abilities from two new Innates.

Speaking of which, to some degree, every class has had their R/S/M moved around and certain R/S/Ms that I've currently deemed "broken" or close to it, like Two Swords or Dragon Spirit or HP Restore, will not be available to players (or at least generics).

Some of the physically weaker classes got new Innates.

Oh, and everyone currently has Innate Defend.


Finally, with all that said in done, I guess I should say what's already obvious: the main character(s) will be completely new. None of them will be Bevoulves, though a few of them....

Bah. I've talked too much as it is. More later.

[The Damned]

Ugh. I hate double posting, but so be it. It's been almost a week anyway and I'm already three days behind where I wanted to be.

First and foremost, I want to apologize for how rude the beginning of the old first post sounded. I'm sure that didn't really attract many people.

I want to clarify that I that I will doing this whether people care about it or not, though there will be of course a bit more incentive to do it if at least some (regular) people express interest.


So, problems with Abilities aside (for the moment...stupid Chemist and Lancer), for the majority of this month, I hope to get a rough draft of plot written up and done.

Right now, in the spirit of NaNoWriMo, I am going to be shooting for a 50,000 word novel(la)-sized story.

I holding off on the research that I was going to try and do the week before (but since I was doing NaNoWriMo last month too, I was kind of the middle of another book--I still am).

Ergo, I just want to say that I would appreciate it if someone could help with what games and information need to be "researched" to help make some sense of Ivalice's timeline.

So far, I have four or five games in mind:

• FFT PSP-version that I do not have a copy of and have not played; I have a PSP though...somewhere.
• FFXII that I have a copy of but have not played.
• Vagrant Story which I do not have and never finished.
• FFTA & FFTA-2 count if only because of some of the things I would otherwise be borrowing from them (despite the fact that I loathe the series). I have the first FFTA...somewhere. I'm pretty sure it's in my DS...wherever that is.

Really not much else I know of and I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the game-script I missed out that gives a specific (or even vague) date for anything.

So...?

[Skip Sandwich]

not sure if FFXII's Ivalice is the same universe as FFT, since they have Vierra and Moogles and suchlike running around all over, that and you can collect multiples of the various zodiac stones from monster drops.

[The Damned]

Ah, I suppose that makes sense with regards to that Revenant Wings thing I keep seeing being in the exact same style as the other two (read: FFTA and FFTA 2).

Unfortunately, as with FFTPatcher, I'm going to have to take what I can get at the moment.

I mean, hell, there's no confirmation that Vagrant Story takes place in the same Ivalice either, is there? (This is not a rhetorical question.)

[Skip Sandwich]

Yeah but at least with Vagrant Story its a version of Ivalice without demihumans so its more possible that it just happens in a different timeframe then tactics.

[The Damned]

I just wanted to post a very minor update since I had finally decided something: The 20th class and fifth and final new generic class will be Gambler.

I had been debating between Gambler and another class ever since the respective thread came up in LastingDawn's patch, and since I've been testing Gambler for a while and it seems like I could make it "symmetrical" like how I want it to be thematically, thus it has been selected.

The other class will still pop up as an enemy-only class, which was going to be anyway if I hadn't chosen Gambler.

The first post has been edited again slightly to reflect this. There probably won't be another "major" update until New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. Maybe a bit after since I expect everyone else but me to be smashed--I don't drink.

That said, I may get around to playing FFXII, so maybe....

[LastingDawn]

Ah, the Ivalice Timeline...

According to a canon guide written by Square when they released FFXII they released a semi timeline, and though it is odd, it does make sense...

FFXII comes first, (the guide, oddly enough calls Ajora a woman, I wonder if it's saying something...)
A "great cataclysm" occur's wiping out all other races except Humes.

FFT then comes (keep in mind the game references a past, golden age, the Holy Ydoran Empire, "Airships no longer fly in the skies", mechanical man and Moogles, the mention of Faram, all of the above are in FF12, except the Holy Ydoran Empire)

Vagrant Story then occurs a bit of time past FFT, it's never stated how long, but it must be before Alazlam's time who gives the intro. As Ramza and friend's were dead and gone.

FFTA was believed toi be the last in the timeline, with the only reminder of Ivalice being St. Ivalice. And Ivalice being a false world, created through such, as of now we don't know where FFTA 2 fits into the timeline.

[Zuka]

Ah, the Ivalice Timeline...

According to a canon guide written by Square when they released FFXII they released a semi timeline, and though it is odd, it does make sense...

FFXII comes first, (the guide, oddly enough calls Ajora a woman, I wonder if it's saying something...)
A "great cataclysm" occur's wiping out all other races except Humes.

FFT then comes (keep in mind the game references a past, golden age, the Holy Ydoran Empire, "Airships no longer fly in the skies", mechanical man and Moogles, the mention of Faram, all of the above are in FF12, except the Holy Ydoran Empire)

Vagrant Story then occurs a bit of time past FFT, it's never stated how long, but it must be before Alazlam's time who gives the intro. As Ramza and friend's were dead and gone.

FFTA was believed toi be the last in the timeline, with the only reminder of Ivalice being St. Ivalice. And Ivalice being a false world, created through such, as of now we don't know where FFTA 2 fits into the timeline.

You know I never knew they released an official timeline, but this has always been my theory, because of the statement about Ivalice once having a Golden Age, it's cool to find out I've been right all this time ^^

[The Damned]

You know I never knew they released an official timeline, but this has always been my theory, because of the statement about Ivalice once having a Golden Age, it's cool to find out I've been right all this time ^^

Same here.

Thanks for the information Lasting Dawn. Interestingly enough, I had come to that conclusion the day before you posted, but confirmation is always nice.

That said, I must disagree with you with regards to your placement of the FFTA game(s); it seems like it would have to take place before the "Cataclysm"--heh, sounds like Megaman, which is coincidentally what I've been thinking about getting into earlier this week, before Inafune sucked Zero's saber some more and absolved him of all guilt; Megaman 9 is just more evidence of this.

Anyway, FFTA(2) has all the things that FFT is missing (minus the more advanced stats and skills and formulas; funny how that doesn't translate into gameplay with Assassin and other classes around) race-wise and those same races being in FFXII (even the Seeq that were in FFTA). Also, the fact that Revanant Wings was apparently done by the same team (at least art style-wise; I haven't done extensive research yet) just seems like more confirmation to me.

So, for right now, I guess the Timeline (or at least the one I'm going to use for "THE PLOT") goes from FFXII to Vagrant Story:

FFXII (and/or FFTA/FFTA2; I would figure that FFTA(2) having less Espers [or whatever] means that it might have happened before FFXII...or not at all) --> Ultima gets the worst case of PMS ever --> FFT --> Vagrant Story --> Alazlam's report --> (for this "patch") Hanakawa's report.


P.S. I edited my last post in the Gambler thread, Lasting Dawn. Sorry about taking so long.

[Dormin Jake]

FFTA and FFTA2, as far as I know, begin in the modern St. Ivalice.  In FFTA, Marche and friends enter a portal into a fantasy Ivalice crafted by the imagination of Mewt that resembles the old Ivalice of FFXII fame.  In FFTA2, I believe Luso gets sucked into a time portal that returns him to Ivalice's actual ancient past.

So, technically, the Advance titles are originally set in modern Ivalice, and the old Ivalice is only reached through magic portals.  That's why LD's putting them latest in the timeline -- the main characters are from the much distant future.

<- Has not played FFTA2

[The Damned]

I finally decided to use the Story part of FFCompendium and you may well be correct, Dormin Jake. It's hard to tell where FFTA2 and, more importantly, FFTA (since FFTA2 apparently comes 10-20 years after FFTA...and, somehow, 1-5 years after Revenant Wings, which I left out of the above timeline because I'm an idiot and has a story that's I feel I shouldn't read over until I actually play FFXII).

It doesn't help that FFTA and FFTA2 might be imaginary and/or a different timeline (and that both of them suck and have prevented a real sequel to FFT, but that's a different issue).

So, for the moment and for the sheer sake of inclusion, I will just keeping count them as at beginning of the timeline (since that's where the majority of the game would take place), whether they are imaginary or not, since they obviously share the same races as FFXII, which we are pretty sure happened before FFT at this point.

This will be the revised timeline for right now:


FFTA --> FFXII --> FFXII:RW --> FFTA2 --> Ultima gets the worst case of PMS ever --> FFT --> Vagrant Story --> Alazlam's report --> (for this "patch") Hanakawa's report.


Speaking of FFXII, I think I'm going to accelerate bit and try and start that today or tomorrow since I haven't even tried starting any significant part of the story I had planned to this month; hell, I have yet to even come up with a comphrensive plot outline (or at least write/type it down).

Oh well. At least I'm finished with all the generic classes.

Now comes the slightly less easy part with figuring out how many Special Characters I'm going to need outside of the main characters I have so far.

[The Damned]

Ah, my last post was a bit of a lie on two fronts: I still haven't started FFXII (I hope to get around to that tonight or tomorrow, but I've said for the past two weeks) and I wasn't actually finished with the Dancer or Bard as of that post.

Le sigh.

I'm "finished" now, though, at least with the first phase of things. Dancer is basically gasm's Dancer now since I wanted to test out that along with sometime else, especially if I can get particular ASM hack to work (whenever I start doing that, which I hope is soon). Bard has now been changed. Its abilities have been somewhat nerfed, though it will probably be boosted heavily as a class to compensate when I get around to stats--the same is likely of Dancer.

The only thing really missing besides Item and such being workable is Gambler being devoid of R/S/Ms at the moment, but that's hardly anything really important. I'll probably think of something later when I get to ASM hacking.

As for what actually changed, I suppose I should be a bit more specific than in my initial post:

Short version:
Every class has changed majorly outside of Geomancer. Currently, Gambler and the other new classes will likely be some of better ones at this point, whereas White Mage may have ended up being nerfed a bit too hard.


Long version:

• Squire - Still has 16 skills now, though I'll probably end up changing one or two them since I've been shuffling around the basic classes a lot. Squire currently has a full 6 R/S/M as well, though it will be losing Weapon Guard when I ASM hack that into being an Innate for everyone. It will probably also lose another of its R/S/M abilities, Gained EXP Up, since this patch will likely have most encounter be party-level.
• Knight - They've currently been weakened quite a bit skill-wise, at least when it comes to their physical abilities. The only remaining break skill they have at this point is Weapon Break. In addition to that, they have Ruins and four new skills, leaving their total at 9 like it was initial post. They too have 6 R/S/M at the moment and will likely be keeping all of them.
• Archer - I still don't want to give them Cupid, but I may do so provided that skill that I gave Hunter doesn't work out. Other than that, they currently have only 8 skills and they may lose one of them. R/S/M-wise they have 5 now, though one of them to Hunter depending on how I ASM hack the few dead Equips that are lying around. They also lose Concentrate, though if they do, that would be because I would be getting rid of Concentrate entirely, not giving it to someone else.
• Mediator - Talk Skill has reverted back to its former self, though Invitation and Death Sentence will likely be ultimately changed and Threaten and Solution will remain at best halved. Due to lose Equip Gun (though they may get another Equip soon since they're not technically a "physical" class), they have 4 R/S/M that don't deal with Equipment, though one of them may be lost to Hunter and Finger Guard is largely useless (though I have an idea of how it can be made more powerful if I can ASM hack it appropriately). A lot of their strength still lies in Threaten and Solution, though they now have a lot better equipment options despite losing guns and certain ASM hacks will prevent the aforementioned two abilities from being broken. Their vocal abilities will likely get a bit of range increased outside of Mimic Daravon, which may be nerfed or changed completely some point down the line but is currently the same. They also currently have a perhaps overpowering Innate Status Immunity.
• Black Mage - Has lost the fourth level spells, Death, Frog, AND Poison, though it may get Poison back. It may also lose Flare, but that's not as likely. Anyway, they still have 16 abilities due to getting another series of elemental spells and then three debuffing spells that make them more the opposite of White Mage they are supposed to be. They have also currently lose Counter Magic, but that's mostly because Counter Magic is both already really useful and expensive for the early game and I want all these abilities to be used at least at some point. That said, they have been buffed a bit and the three original elementals have been differentiated each other a bit besides what element they are. Flare has also been buffed.
• White Mage - Similarly, they have lost Cure 4, Shell 2, Protect 2 and Raise 2; Raise 2 doesn't even exist anymore in this patch at the moment. Raise, Esuna and Holy has also been nerfed somewhat. That said, their spells have been buffed and their new spells don't cost much MP. They have similarly lost Regenerator to Blue Mage, but they still have 2 R/S/Ms due to gaining a Reaction that normally got very little use for the time that you got it.
• Time Mage - This has been buffed the most of all the classes ability-wise besides maybe Thief: they've lost Haste 2, Slow 2 and Meteor, but they've gained three relatively decent damage options outside of demi-spells, two more offensive statuses, an anti-Quick and an experiment spell, all of which give them 16 abilities. Currently, they have lost Teleport to Summoner, but since I may ultimately take that away from all generics if I am unable to "fix" it, that's not a huge lost. They still have their 3 other R/S/Ms, though Short Charge may end up being lost to Calculator.
• Lancer/Dragoon - They have lost Jump until we can figure out how to integrate Jump and other problematic sets into other sets without the game acting like we're trying to give it cancer. Right now, they have a very Dragon-oriented set that both mimics and focuses on destroying dragons--they have currently lost Dragon Spirit, though, which will likely stay gone. They gained Counter to somewhat make up for their sudden lack of a Reaction, though their other two R/S/Ms are currently the same. (I am currently still thinking of how to make Ignore Height not completely overshadowed.)
• Hunter - The first new class, they currently have 9 abilities after losing their Dragon-oriented one to Dragoon. They also have 3 R/S/M abilities, including the obvious Secret Hunt. They are currently unlocked after 3 levels of Archer are obtained and currently replace Monks for generics.
• Thief - They probably have the biggest buff skill-wise since they only gained skills, 8 of them to be exact, due to me wanting to give them a means to get around Maintenance without having to resort to giving them to Innate Concentrate like 1.3 has. I felt this was especially necessary since they currently still have two very useless R/S/M abilities--Catch and Gilgame Heart--though they have gained another far more useful Support ability to make up for the small loss of Jump +2.
• Blue Mage - The second new class, they have a full 16 abilities since it's very easy to take from monsters. Although currently I'm thinking of how the whole "You need to get hit!" angle should be dealt with considering some of the abilities you can learn tend to affect in you in a way that causes you to be unable to learn it. This is only really a problem for one skill, though, which is my evil, evil change to Shine Lover. Outside of that, they have 4 R/S/Ms skills, one of them which will likely end up being free and another which generics never got to use in 1.3 (though I'll have to remember to make maps that allow it to have some use considering how rare that type of terrain is). They will likely lose the Innate Fly they have right now. Currently, they are unlocked after 3 levels of Black Mage and they currently replace Oracles for generics.
• Illusionists - The third new class, they have 9 completely new abilities, though since they have the misfortune of occupying Chemist's corpse, I haven't properly tested half of them. The computer seems to use the more orthodox ones already, though, so that's a good sign. They currently have 3 R/S/M skills, though two of them taken from Ninja and one of which they're going to lose right now since I forgot that I had given it to Bards. This class will currently be unlocked through 3 levels of White Mage.
• Summoner - I decided to change Golem back to normal after realizing that it would be screwing over Protect 2. So, outside of losing Lich and (access to) Zodiac and gaining a very different iteration of Midgar Zolom/MidgarSwarm, they haven't much changed yet outside of a few elemental additions to their spells. They have gained Counter Magic and Teleport as R/S/Ms and still retain Half of MP, though they have lost MP Restore.
• Berserker - The fourth new class, they are the complex physical class to be unlocked and will be replacing Ninja. No, that they won't have Two Swords Innate (though they may have Two Hands Innate). They currently have 12 skills, though a quarter of those are taken from Knight and another quarter are taken directly from Squire (though they have been appropriately buffed for the likelihood of what is to be encountered late game). Similarly, they have two of Squire's old R/S/Ms, though both of those will have increased usefulness in this patch (I would hope). They currently have three other R/S/Ms, with two of them coming from Samurai and one of them coming from Dancer, which gives them a total of 5 R/S/Ms. For now, how they are to be unlocked will remain a secret.
• Geomancers - The "balanced" complex class is the only class that hasn't really changed from its vanilla counterpart, though there are one or two things I want to do if I can ASM hack it. Outside of that, they kind of absorbed the two "homeless" movement abilities that Samurai and Ninja had, giving them a total of 5 R/S/Ms abilities; they no longer have a Support Ability due to losing Attack UP to Archer.
• Calculators - Ah, these people. The so called complex magic users. They've such a pain in the arse to decide what to do with. At present, they are higher Red Mage due to being a dumping ground, but that may change later on. I'm currently debating on what to give them for R/S/M since they only have two at the moment. I'm also debating on whether to give them any Innate Status Immunity since I've given three generic classes them.
• Dancers - See gasm's thread. My Dancers also have 2 gender specific R/S/Ms and an Innate Status Immunity on top of other equips to make up for the likelihood that Cloths will be gone.
• Bards - See what was said earlier in this post. They also have 2 gender specific R/S/Ms and an Innate Status immunity on top of other equips to make up for their generic inability to directly attack (though they do now DO have one direct attacking ability). Their range has also been GREATLY nerfed.
• Mimes - The amount of things they mimic will ultimately be greatly reduced, but in addition to the 1.3 status immunities, I've given them two newer, better innates and will likely up their stats to compensate (though I will likely lower their stat growth considering it's so above the other classes overall).
• Gambler - The fifth and new last class, they will be replacing Samurai and finally give Mimes an opposite. Unlike LastingDawn's Gambler, my Gambler will be more magical than physical and be specifically focused more on chance than consistent damage (partly because I'm interested to see how the computer will handle an ability set full completely of skills checked for "Random Hit".) They have the ability to both add and cancel a unique status among generics. They have 13 abilities at the moment, but no R/S/Ms, which may or may not change. Additionally, to further show their opposing of Mime, they are the only other class to besides Mime to have all four Innates filled with something as well have multiple Innate Status Immunities. They are also the only generic class to have an Innate Starting Status.

Ugh. I feel sleepy just typing that.

I hope I can actually start FFXII tomorrow despite having a bunch of things I didn't get to do today.