Adding damage to status effect spells--which formula to use?

[adouchebag]

I'm considering adding a damage component to Oracle and Time Mage spells to make them more viable, but I'm not exactly sure which formula I should use to accomplish this.  I haven't started testing yet but it looks like 08 would work: Dmg_F(MA*Y)--the formula 0D4 Bio uses, which if I remember correctly causes damage and adds a status effect.

I don't want it to be overpowered, I'd like the status to be higher than the set 25% chance to hit, but I don't want it to be 100% either.  Kind of stumped on which formula to use, since I don't fully understand all of them.  But I'd like stuff like Blind and Slow to do damage comparable to a Fire 1 spell, and probably have the stronger status effect spells do no more damage than a Fire 2.  Those I think I can figure out pretty easily just tweaking the X and Y variables.

If anyone knows of a good formula that would work for what I'm trying to do here, please let me know.  And if I have to, I'll use the 25% chance to hit on them, if there's no other choice.

[Vanya]

You're pretty much stuck with bio's formula unless you request a custom formula. ^_^

[adouchebag]

Ok I'll have to play around with it.

I didn't realize it was possible to add custom formulas, any idea how that process works?

[Vanya]

Well, you have to use an emulator with a debugger to find the formula in the ISO, then you have to rewrite the ASM code to whatever you need. Zodiac, Razele, and SentinalBlade are the most knowledgeable about ASM hacking at the forums right now. ^_^

[adouchebag]

Ugh yeah I figured it would be something crazy like that, but I thought I'd ask.  I'm not going to bother them with something so trivial as what I'm thinking of doing.  Hopefully, the Bio formula will work without being ridiculous--but I won't be able to use it if it has a 100% success rate.

I'll just have to mess around with them.

What if I used the Fire formula and added the status to it?  Something else I'll look into I suppose, if Bio doesn't work.

[Vanya]

You can use anything as ling as the formula doesn't have an 'NS' at the end. ^_^

[The Damned]

Uh...Fire's formula IS Bio 1's formula. I believe I added this to the Wiki already, but considering that I went over formulas like a month ago, I may be forgetting something.

Anyway, IIRC formula 08 is the most used abilities formula in the entire game since most damage magically-based attacks use it.

Outside of formula 08, you can use the percentage formulas that Blood Suck or Death use, though those two get reversed against Undead; they also add status at 100% if they hit, which I'm unsure if you want.

[adouchebag]

Ok, so I've tried this out with mixed results.  I changed all negative status effect spells (Slow, Stop, Sleep, Blind, etc) to formula 08, and added a damage component.  But for some reason the status effects aren't being applied.  The status effects are all All or Nothing, so I don't understand why when the spell hits the status effect doesn't get applied.

I did something Similar with Beowulf's Magic Sword--I changed the formulas to 2D--the same formula as Holy Sword.  They all work flawlessly.  Either on All or Nothing or Separate, the status gets applied the way it should.

So does anyone know what I could be doing wrong with my spells?  I'll give the rundown for one of them that I've checked out--Yin Yang Blind:

Formula:

08 Dmg_F(MA*Y)
X: 0
Y: 12

Inflict Status: 30 All or Nothing Darkness

Target Self, Hit Enemies and Allies, Follow Target, Hit Caster, Reflect, Mimic, Quote, Counter Flood and Magic, Evadeable, Targeting.

Learn with JP, Action?, and the First 'Unknown' are all checked.

As far as I can tell this SHOULD work.  Am I missing something?

EDIT: And to confuse me even more, I just tried using Bio (second on the list, damage plus All or Nothing poison) and it also didn't add the status effect.  Did I screw my game up somehow?

[Dormin Jake]

Unless otherwise stated, formulas that do not have NS at the end of them apply All or Nothing status effects at 25% chance.

Formula 2D is special in that it has a 100% chance to add status, meaning that All or Nothing effects will always occur.

Effects marked Separate are always at 25% chance, except in Dark Whisper's formula (6.25%).  This 25% applies to 100% formulas as well, which is why Stasis Sword only applies stop status a quarter of the time.

[Skip Sandwich]

the difference is that the holy sword formula applies status at 100% on hit, whereas formula 08 applies the status only 25% of the time, assuming it hits in the first place

[adouchebag]

Ah wonderful, thank you.  I guess I was misunderstanding exactly what 'All or Nothing' meant--either it applies all of the selected status effects, or none at all.

So I'm stuck with a 25% chance to apply status if I want to add damage to a status effect spell?  Maybe I'll see what 0E will do, I could make the Damage % low like 15 or 20%, but I'm not sure what Hide Status means, I'll have to test it and see what happens.

EDIT: Ah, it works great.  As I kind of thought, Hide Status just means it doesn't tell you what status it's going to apply, or that it DID apply when the spell goes off.  Kinda silly, but since it's fairly obvious what status effect 'Blind' is going to apply, and if the spell hits it's guaranteed to be applied, it shouldn't be a problem.  Unless the target is immune, don't know what's going to happen there.  But at least now I know what was going on with the stupid spells not applying the status.  Just a matter of tweaking the to hit percentages so they're not too low or too high.

[The Damned]

Just be aware that currently formula 0E will ALWAYS heal the Undead like I was saying earlier--this was one of the percentage formulas that I was talking about.

If that's not a problem in your patch (i.e. you don't have Undead at all in your patch), then go for broke.

[adouchebag]

No there are still undead, but I kind of like the idea that the spells will heal them instead of harm them--it balances it out a little bit, since if the spell hits it's going to apply the effect, it will make them more of a challenge....

...if I don't use a Raise spell or Phoenix Down on them, that is.

[The Damned]

it balances it out a little bit, since if the spell hits it's going to apply the effect, it will make them more of a challenge....

Are you sure about that?

That isn't rhetorical as it seems like it should be right and I've yet to test it myself surprisingly. That said, from my experience with the spell Death, it seems like that isn't true since that spell should still kill Undead whenever it hits instead of just healing them to full.

[adouchebag]

Actually, no I'm not yet, I haven't gotten a chance to actually test it on an Undead.  If it doesn't apply the status effect on them, even better.  I just wish I could use those code hacks to make Phoenix Downs and Raise spells do less damage to them...stupid Mustadio in the swamp just ran around using PDs on everything, and Seal Evil on the ones out of range....

[Skip Sandwich]

keep in mind that even if an undead unit is immune to the status in question, it will still be healed, as opposed to a normal unit that is immune to the status, which would just not be affected at all by the spell. anyway, if you're keeping the oracle's default spell effects, then having them heal undead wouldn't be too bad, they are summoning little ghosts and whatnot to inflict those status anyway.