Job & Skill Proposals/Idea Thread

[Skip Sandwich]

Classic Red Mage (simple amalgam  of other magic sets for abilities, with a physical leaning for equipment)

Equip: Swords, Knives, Hats, Clothes, Robes, Accessories *may or may not be able to equip rods and staves, the FF1 version could only equip the very weakest staves*

Multipliers: Average in all respects
Growths: slight MA/MP advantage, average speed, slight PA/HP deficiency
*exact numbers for multipliers growths depend on the balance point of your patch*

Move: 3
Jump: 3

Skillset
Ice
Ice 2
Bolt
Bolt 2
Fire
Fire 2
Cure
Cure 2
Raise
Protect
Shell
Poison
Blind
Silence


Ways of Simulating DoubleCast

Rafa's multi-hit magic formula (random # of hits between 1 and X)
Pro: ...no particular pros that I can think of...
Cons: doesn't activate all the time, non-standard damage formula, requires custom skills, no doublecast status or curative magic

Hydra's multi-hit magic formula (set # of hits equal to X+1)
Pro: hits double every time
Cons: non-standard damage formula, requires custom skills, no doublecast status or curative magic

Weapon Strike flag and Two Swords ability (casts twice when two weapons are equipped)
Pro: works with standard skills, provides a use for the Two Swords ability on a mage
Cons: doesn't affect MP cost, makes Magic Attack UP obsolete
Possible Work-around: double mp cost of spells, give Red Mages innate Two Swords and all other mages Innate Half MP

Persistent flag (casts at set ct intervals)
Pro: affects mp use (mp is subtracted at each firing interval)
Cons: CT/Speed progression makes it fire more times per round at lower speeds, and less at higher speeds unless speed growth is kept static. Requires custom skills.

:EDIT: added in weapon strike flag and persistent flag options for double cast, added in pros and cons of each method.
:EDIT2: added in the lack of curative and status magic options for the first two doublecast methods

[Timbo]

I like Rafa's multi hit formula the best.  It's the least wonky of all the above options.  Also, I decided against giving the Red Mage Cure, Fire, Blizzard, and Lightning.  Instead I just gave her the Cura, Fira, Blizzara, and Thundara spells.  It allows for a greater versatility.  I also threw in Mana Burn to give the Red Mage something unique.

My list is
Cura
Esuna
Raise
Protect
Shell
Fira
Blizzara
Thundara
Frog
Haste
Slow
Comet
Drain
Osmose
Sleep
Mana Burn

[The Damned]

See, the problem I have with Red Magic is that for some reason everyone wants to give it Raise even though that's pretty much the only thing that White Magic would have over Red Magic (since Holy is rather overrated in most instances) AND Classic Red Mages never got Raise/Life--Red Wizards did, though.

IMO, going straight off of vanilla & 1.3's minimal changes to abilities, if we're just sticking just with White and Black Magic, then Red Magic should have 12 spells:

• Fire
• Fire 2
• Ice
• Ice 2
• Bolt
• Bolt 2
• Cure
• Cure 2
• Esuna
• Protect
• Shell
• Wall

Technically, Esuna or Wall could be subbed out for Cure 3 since FF1 Red Mages DID learn that, but I personally think it's a bit much, even if it's not as bad as Raise would be.

You could also give them four abilities to cover Time Mage and Yin-Yang Magic as well since some spells that Red Mages did get as part of FF1 White Magic or FF1 Black Magic aren't in those skill sets in FFT. Red Mages could still get decent coverage with three spells from each, though:

• Fire
• Ice
• Bolt
• Cure
• Protect
• Shell
• Haste
• Slow
• Don't Move
• Blind
• Sleep
• Paralyze

You could potentially add Poison, Esuna, Demi (EDITED in for Stop after double-checking and seeing that only Black Wizards got Stop) and Confusion Song (or Silence Song) as fourth spells for Black Magic, White Magic, Time Mage and Yin-Yang Magic respectively that further simulate FF1 Red Mages. (Well, Poison is just there because Frog, Death and Flare are too powerful, really; the same with Demi since only Black Wizards got Stop.)

Otherwise Skip Sandwich pretty much nailed the non-Active Ability stuff.

Front page got trimmed until I actually have time to put some of those promised tutorials together.
If anyone else feels like writing any I'll be more than happy to add them to the front page for everyone's convenience. ^_^

I wouldn't mind doing it if I had a consistent model that I was supposed to use.

[Boxiii]

I like the fast cast Rad Mage rather than the double cast.

(forgive the psp names, i like them more)

Red Mage
Requirement-None
Equips- Same as mages except no rods/staves, just swords and shields.
Innate- +Swiftness
Skillset- Red Magicks
Fire
Fira
Blizzard
Blizzara
Thunder
Thundara
Cure
Cura
Protect
Poison
Immobilize
Bubble*
Gigaflare*

This is meant to be the starting mage, with basic spells. You would want to branch out to the other classes, but the innate Swift makes the class useful throughout. Other mages would have their own special traits.

Magical growths would be slightly lower than a black mage, and physical growths around those of a squire.

[formerdeathcorps]

My elite Red Mage requires level 8 WM/BM and level 7 TM/Or.

Normal Received Damage: All Elements
Lower MA/MP Growth than most mages
Higher PA/HP Growth than most mages
4 Move/3 Jump
Uses all mage gear + swords
Aero3
Water3
Quake3
Curse (Rafa/Malak style darkness elemental attack that adds a curse status)
Foxbird (Nerfed from vanilla by around 65%)
Golem (Nerfed from vanilla by 50%)
Esuna 2 (known in vanilla as Deathspell 2, except that it now costs JP and MP)
Bio 3 (Learn from enemy demons)

[Timbo]

It seems like everybody has their own idea of what a red mage looks like.

[The Damned]

Hmm...I had just had an idea about how to possibly make that Vanadiel/Morpher/Item-using Blue Mage that Vanya had brought up. Ergo, I figure might as well, especially since I'll probably forget it as I'm not going to use it myself.

Okay, so the key problem that occurred when I originally tried to make Blue Mage using Samurai as the template was that monsters can't use the items for Draw Out, which I should have probably realized since Katana Inventory needs its own skill set due to being a stubborn bastard. (There was also the additional problem that is mentioned in the posts above this one about Katana to other weapons have so far looked extremely buggy.)

However, just half an hour ago I realized a possible solutions: Make every monster (or 10 of them, at least) like Worker 8 and Byblos and tell them to get a job. It seems like it should work, especially since there's easily enough blank skill sets that apparently flagged for auto-learn to make both 10 monster "primary" jobs and 10 single "Blue Mage" abilities, and then all you'd have to do is poach their asses.

I guess it was sort of a delayed revelation from seeing a Worker in Dokurider's recent video against Balk II using Phoenix Down despite the have somewhat been thinking about using something like that for at least a couple of regular monsters (too).

That said, there are of course problems, the key one being that 10 monsters you used would probably have to be made immune to Invite or else they'd act really wonky on the formation screen.

The other key problem I'm seeing is them being that Monster Skill/Beast Master becomes obviated for the most part, even if all of the other 6 monsters are able to be Invited. As I'm sure we all know, a good many of the RSMs we're stuck with now kind of suck as is, so we need as many viable ones as we can get.

With that said, Vanya had similarly mentioned that the idea that Blue Mages were originally said to use the captured souls of monsters (or something like that) to use their abilities. So, there was a question that occurred to me that I should have asked (myself) much earlier when I was still testing the Learn on Hit thing (though technically I never finished testing that since Pep-Up was/is a bust):

If the Learn (on Hit) rate for Blue Magic is presumably to be 100%, then has anyone tested to see/confirm whether or not Blue Mages can learn their abilities just by testing on the crystals of the monsters that have them?


It seems fairly obvious that Blue Mages can get abilities from other Blue Mages, but it seems like they should also have to the ability to just get them from monster crystals without even needing to get hit by them considering that Learn on Hit is solely dependent on the skills being the same and doesn't care about what job(s) it comes from.

That's more of a problem really (in my eyes), but it could also be an alternate interpretation of Blue Mages if someone confirms that such a thing is indeed possible. (Although learning things through crystal Only would be a huge pain in the ass even if you made all monsters immune to treasure boxing.)

In that sense, though you could combine the two ideas and have the monsters possess the Blue Magic (perhaps as their Monster Skill so as not to take up one of their precious skill slots, though that again obviates Monster Skill/Beast Master) even though they never use it since as long as they have it, you could learn it. In that sense, a Vanadiel/Morpher-esque/Item-using Blue Mage should also be possible since then all you would need do is also poach the monster so that you could use the item yourself. (Although in this case it would probably be best to have it available in stores since changing Draw Out's formulas cause things to break/get used up without saying so.)

Just something to think about....

[RavenOfRazgriz]

If the Learn (on Hit) rate for Blue Magic is presumably to be 100%, then has anyone tested to see/confirm whether or not Blue Mages can learn their abilities just by testing on the crystals of the monsters that have them?

Tried it in ASM'd because I was sick of dealing with an Ahriman.

Didn't work.

[The Damned]

Considering that you seem to look at patches' system changes with FFTPatcher, can you thus assure me that Ahriman's Blue Magic move had a Learn rate of 100%?

Not that I disbelieve you, I just want to be absolutely sure (though I'll end up making a necessary change anyway that will obviate the answer).

Lazy EDIT: Never mind, I decided to look for myself. Look of the Devil indeed has 100% Learn rate.

Giving them skill sets would doubtless allow for learning through crystals, though. Hmmm....

[Timbo]

Considering that you seem to look at patches' system changes with FFTPatcher, can you thus assure me that Ahriman's Blue Magic move had a Learn rate of 100%?

Not that I disbelieve you, I just want to be absolutely sure (though I'll end up making a necessary change anyway that will obviate the answer).

Lazy EDIT: Never mind, I decided to look for myself. Look of the Devil indeed has 100% Learn rate.

Giving them skill sets would doubtless allow for learning through crystals, though. Hmmm....

I don't speak for everybody but I don't see this as a problem.  I don't mind if you get to learn any "hit by" spells by crystal as well.  It's not any more or less balanced then learning them by being hit.  It's just a little bit more convenient.  I've spent arduous periods of time trying to get hit by Zodiac and Ultima, only to have to reset in frustration.

[Skip Sandwich]

Was messing with the animations tab and found a really cool effect/animation combo, 11 3C 00 combined with the lifebreak effect results in the caster transforming into a ball of energy, smashing into the target, and the re-materializing back at their original position, alternatively, 04 3C 00 has the same result, but the animation and effect play slower.

[SilvasRuin]

I haven't tested it yet, but I think I may have figured out how to create an effective Taunt skill.  Give the knight, guardian, paladin, whatever you call it skillset a skill that heals them for around 10 to 20 percent of their max hp and set the charge time to where it takes just under a full turn for the fastest speed available to characters.  The heal should be enough incentive to get the AI to actually use it, making it percentage based doesn't make it work differently for a magic oriented job (and it would be less appealing on a squishy character anyways), and making it as long of a charge time as possible without going over into the next turn keeps the AI from being too stupid with it while still keeping it long enough that they do draw enemy fire.  I realize this could be abused for a cheap heal, but doesn't that make it all the more effective at its job?  If a player sees an AI controlled tank job using that, they're going to want to take advantage of the charging status to inflict more damage than Taunt will heal while they're making themselves vulnerable.  Heck, depending on the balance of the patch, 20% might even be too weak to counteract the extra damage Charging causes.


Also, Skip... that sounds awesome.

[The Damned]

I'm guessing that animation was tested with humans, correct Skip?

I don't speak for everybody but I don't see this as a problem.  I don't mind if you get to learn any "hit by" spells by crystal as well.  It's not any more or less balanced then learning them by being hit.  It's just a little bit more convenient.  I've spent arduous periods of time trying to get hit by Zodiac and Ultima, only to have to reset in frustration.

Well, that opinion noted, it wouldn't help with learning Zodiac because IIRC Elbidis doesn't crystalize. (Then again, it's been forever since I beat him in vanilla and I'm probably never going to try to beat him in 1.3, so....)

Nothing new to report with regards to weapons yet unfortunately. I haven't been testing thing as much anyway, but right now I'm probably going to do weapons last since I'm going to end up using most of the few Item Attributes--why are there only 80 damn it--on Accessories and Armor. (God damn, trying to create useful armor within the limitation is such a pain in the ass.)

I do know what I'm going to shift Ninja Blades into (though I think I said that), so that's not the "problem" at present.

[DeadManWalking]

I haven't tested it yet, but I think I may have figured out how to create an effective Taunt skill.  Give the knight, guardian, paladin, whatever you call it skillset a skill that heals them for around 10 to 20 percent of their max hp and set the charge time to where it takes just under a full turn for the fastest speed available to characters.  The heal should be enough incentive to get the AI to actually use it, making it percentage based doesn't make it work differently for a magic oriented job (and it would be less appealing on a squishy character anyways), and making it as long of a charge time as possible without going over into the next turn keeps the AI from being too stupid with it while still keeping it long enough that they do draw enemy fire.  I realize this could be abused for a cheap heal, but doesn't that make it all the more effective at its job?  If a player sees an AI controlled tank job using that, they're going to want to take advantage of the charging status to inflict more damage than Taunt will heal while they're making themselves vulnerable.  Heck, depending on the balance of the patch, 20% might even be too weak to counteract the extra damage Charging causes.


Also, Skip... that sounds awesome.

Couldn't do that on mine, he already has a healing ability (Derived from Chakra) giving it a charge time... likely wouldn't be very good.

[The HiemLICH]

So I'm doing this thing where I'm going to replace all the special characters with O.C's. So far, I've thought of a few definite changes I want to make.
That is, I'm going to remove Rapha, Marach, and Beowulf so I can have a "Paladin", "Beserker" and "Cavalier." This is what their abilities would look like, including the specs for the skills. Note: I know some of these look beastly, but I'm also thinking of increasing the number of enemies per battle, and number of allies per battle, along with increasing HP and MP limits.

I've already implemented some of them into a current game and some abilities like Knight Prayer, White Wind, Global Quarter, Field Command, Supply and Reaching Hand have made the game almost impossible to lose to.

The Paladin is Rapha.
Heaven's Wrath became Knight Prayer - Increases Br by 5, Str by 1, plus Chakra, self only. Same formula as Chakra.
Ashura is still called Ashura, but is more like the FFIV Summon Ashura. Casts Protect, Shell, Reflect. Self AoE. Faith based for success.
Adamantine Blade became Knights Guard - Casts Cure and Regen on an ally. Can't target self, range 4. Faith based.
Maelstrom became White Wind - Drains HP from an enemy, hits up to 3 times. Range 3. Same formula as Climhazzard.
Celestial Void became Cosmic Justice - Hits one enemy for Lost HP, like Shock.
Divinity became Deity's Faith - Damages one enemies HP and MP for max MP, depletes MP of self to zero. Requires High Faith and MA like BM spells.
Paladin has innate Cup of Life, equips Swords, Knightswords, Armor, Helmets and Robes. He's male.

Beserker is Marach
Hell's Wrath became Knuckle Bust. It deals random damage and reduces opponents Str by 2. Same formula as attacking with an Axe.
Nether Ashura became Rage Rush. Hits an enemy twice. Basic PA*WP Attack.
Nether Blade became Volcano Fury. Requires charging, but increases Str by 3. CT time of 32.
Nether Maelstrom became Global Quarter. Hits like a Summon spell, but is based on PA, can't hit floating. Can cause Stop, Blind, and Immobilize. Same formula as "Split Punch".
Corporeal Void became War Sanity. Causes Beserk, Haste, Protect, increases Str by 2, causes 25% dmg to the Beserker of current HP. 100% on all aspects.
Impiety became Ares' End. Instantly kills one opponent, also kills user. 100%.
Beserker has innate Attack Boost, equips Daggers, Axes, Clothing. Can also equip The Ribbon and Bandannas.

And finally, my Cavalier.
Innate Swiftness.
Now, Beowulf usually has like 16 attacks. I removed most.
Throw Axe - Same as Ninja Throw Axe
Throw Spear - Same.
Leap Crush - Same as Jump Vert 6
Sky Crunch - Same as Jump Horzt 8
Field Command - 100% Quick, same MP cost. Used to move him around the field quickly.
Battle Statue - Causes Immobilize and Disable on selected enemy, same formula as Arm Shot or Leg Shot.
Supply - Uses a "Megalixer" on all surrounding allies, can only be used once per battle.(So far, I did this by removing Echo Screen from Chemist and making it this. They're super expensive at 15000... I don't know how else to make this only be used once per battle.)
I want to give the Cavalier a special Support Command in replace of Defend. It allows him to always "Throw" his equipped Weapon. "Reaching Hand" increases his attack distance by two panels and one horizontally. So if he's got a Spear equipped instead of a Sword or Axe, he can hit 4 panels, or 3 for Sword/Axe -- Is this possible? Cavalier can equip Swords, Polearms, Axes, Helmets, Hats, Armors.

[SilvasRuin]

I'm also thinking of increasing the number of enemies per battle, and number of allies per battle, along with increasing HP and MP limits.

Unless you're talking about soft caps for the HP and MP limits, what you're describing is impossible.  The only way to allow over 999 HP and/or MP is the ??? status, and that status screws up with equipment.  So either no higher HP and MP limit... or no equipment.  Additionally the maps have an annoyingly constrictive limits on how many sprites there can be in a fight.  I think it gets to maybe 8 usually...?  It varies from map to map.  Considering that you have to assume the player will be using five distinct sprites and that leaves you with only 3 sprites for the enemies.  As far as I know, no one has found a way to improve those limitations.

I've already implemented some of them into a current game and some abilities like Knight Prayer, White Wind, Global Quarter, Field Command, Supply and Reaching Hand have made the game almost impossible to lose to.

In this community, that doesn't tend to be considered a good thing.

Heaven's Wrath - How in the world did you mix healing along with boosting PA and Brave?  Or is this on your to-do list...?

You know what, I'm just going to skip addressing the rest for now because I'm getting a very strong vibe that you don't yet have a firm grasp of what we can and can't do, especially on the can't side of things.  I suggest you take a good long look at the patcher and what options it has at the very least before continuing with your ideas.


EDIT:  Reading how you described White Wind totally confirmed that for me.  Seriously, figure out the capabilities first, THEN work on your ideas.  That or you're a very skilled ASM hacker.

[formerdeathcorps]

So I'm doing this thing where I'm going to replace all the special characters with O.C's. So far, I've thought of a few definite changes I want to make.
That is, I'm going to remove Rapha, Marach, and Beowulf

You know, that sounds a lot like the patch I recently released.  However:

Heaven's Wrath became Knight Prayer - Increases Br by 5, Str by 1, plus Chakra, self only. Same formula as Chakra.
Ashura is still called Ashura, but is more like the FFIV Summon Ashura. Casts Protect, Shell, Reflect. Self AoE. Faith based for success.
Adamantine Blade became Knights Guard - Casts Cure and Regen on an ally. Can't target self, range 4. Faith based.
Maelstrom became White Wind - Drains HP from an enemy, hits up to 3 times. Range 3. Same formula as Climhazzard.
Celestial Void became Cosmic Justice - Hits one enemy for Lost HP, like Shock.
Divinity became Deity's Faith - Damages one enemies HP and MP for max MP, depletes MP of self to zero. Requires High Faith and MA like BM spells.
Paladin has innate Cup of Life, equips Swords, Knightswords, Armor, Helmets and Robes. He's male.

Heaven's Wrath is impossible.
Adamantine Blade can't guarantee both the ability to always cast cure and regen.
White Wind isn't possible and by the name of it, shouldn't be a drain move anyways.
Deity's Faith deals HP and MP damage?  There's no reliable way to do that and if you are sticking to your original conception of 100% damage, it's not possible and is broken no matter how much MP is used.

Hell's Wrath became Knuckle Bust. It deals random damage and reduces opponents Str by 2. Same formula as attacking with an Axe.
Nether Ashura became Rage Rush. Hits an enemy twice. Basic PA*WP Attack.
Nether Blade became Volcano Fury. Requires charging, but increases Str by 3. CT time of 32.
Nether Maelstrom became Global Quarter. Hits like a Summon spell, but is based on PA, can't hit floating. Can cause Stop, Blind, and Immobilize. Same formula as "Split Punch".
Corporeal Void became War Sanity. Causes Beserk, Haste, Protect, increases Str by 2, causes 25% dmg to the Beserker of current HP. 100% on all aspects.
Impiety became Ares' End. Instantly kills one opponent, also kills user. 100%.
Beserker has innate Attack Boost, equips Daggers, Axes, Clothing. Can also equip The Ribbon and Bandannas.

Knuckle Bust isn't currently possible unless you want an axe attack that reduces PA 25% of the time.  That's the best we can currently do, though Zodiac might soon release something on the matter.
Rage Rush isn't possible unless you want a 25% second attack.
Volcano Fury is OP.
Global Quarter would have to be an earth elemental attack, but is seriously OP.
War Sanity is not possible.
Ares' End is possible, but I'm not sure you can guarantee the 100%.

Innate Swiftness.
Now, Beowulf usually has like 16 attacks. I removed most.
Throw Axe - Same as Ninja Throw Axe
Throw Spear - Same.
Leap Crush - Same as Jump Vert 6
Sky Crunch - Same as Jump Horzt 8
Field Command - 100% Quick, same MP cost. Used to move him around the field quickly.
Battle Statue - Causes Immobilize and Disable on selected enemy, same formula as Arm Shot or Leg Shot.
Supply - Uses a "Megalixer" on all surrounding allies, can only be used once per battle.(So far, I did this by removing Echo Screen from Chemist and making it this. They're super expensive at 15000... I don't know how else to make this only be used once per battle.)
I want to give the Cavalier a special Support Command in replace of Defend. It allows him to always "Throw" his equipped Weapon. "Reaching Hand" increases his attack distance by two panels and one horizontally. So if he's got a Spear equipped instead of a Sword or Axe, he can hit 4 panels, or 3 for Sword/Axe -- Is this possible? Cavalier can equip Swords, Polearms, Axes, Helmets, Hats, Armors.

You can't have throw in the same skilset as non-throw attacks, especially in the same skillset as Jump, which has the same problem.
Field Command is OP.
Megaelixir isn't possible in the way you want it.  You can't have it heal all units unless you make it an unequipped katana with 100 WP (which would still have animation glitches), but that would require making all katanas non-equippable.
Reaching Hand is possible with ASM only.  Razele made a hack to do something like this, but he vanished before he implemented it.
"Throw" equipped weapon encounters the same problem.

[SilvasRuin]

Ares' End is possible, but I'm not sure you can guarantee the 100%.

100% status, linear attack with AoE, 1 range, hit caster flag enabled?

[Skip Sandwich]

I played a game of Maid RPG the other day, this class is the result

Maid
Replaces: Dancer
Equip: Pole, Bag, Silk, Knife, Clothing, Robe, Ribbon (cannot equip any headgear other then ribbons)

Skillset - Service

Maiden's Tears: cancel charm/confusion/berserk/petrify/frog/blood suck/undead on a single opposite-sex ally, range 3v3, hit 100%

Morning Service: 100% hp heal and cancel sleep on a single sleeping ally, range 1v0, hit 100%

Kiss: grants random positive status to a single opposite-sex ally, randomly inflict regen, protect, shell, reraise or haste, range 1v0, hit 100%

Maid Fist: deals PA * 24 damage to a single target, but the maid suffers 1/3rd backlash damage, range 1v3

Servant of Evil: inflict Blood Suck/Haste/Regen/Float to self

[The Damned]

Ares' End is actually just as simple as using the Self Destruct formula (52) with Inflict Status Dead and having it be AoE 0 instead of having AoE 1. SilvasRuin's way would probably work as well since it worked for Gambler.

Similarly, Volcano's Fury is actually rather underpowered since CT 32 is FOREVER, even with Short Charge.

Everything else has been addressed.

Servant of Evil: inflict Blood Suck/Haste/Regen/Float to self

I like this idea, but you'd have to get rid of Blood Suck on everyone making for a Game Over since otherwise....

Despite not playing Melty Blood at all, I feel like she should totally have some type of plant or faux item throw. Good work with using the sex-specific formula. For the life of me, I've yet been able to figure what else to use it on besides Steal Heart.

Nothing new on the weapon front I'm afraid. I've finished armor, but I still need to do hats and helms before I finish up with weapons and then I'll try testing (a lot of things) again. Provided my computer doesn't self-destruct on me first since it's been acting up unfortunately....