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Started by Ramza Stan, March 11, 2021, 04:32:51 pm
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 11, 2021, 04:32:51 pmAs the title implies, I'm curious how important it is to have things like stat growths and increasing weapon power over the course of the game. I know it's, like, a constant in RPGs, but how important is it for say a mod of FFT?
Quote from: Ansehelm on March 11, 2021, 06:33:42 pm-Greater character variety: Highly variable class growths offer greater potential for customizability of characters in that they offer different rewards based on the history of the unit's training. You can optimize a unit for whatever growths you want, and have the option to mix and match (e.g. 50 levels as knight, 50 as thief, which provides for a faster knight only slightly weaker than a 99 levels knight). While I understand the rationale that some mod creators have for standardizing growths between classes, the drawback is that it results in all units being more fully generic, with all characteristics being determined solely by their class at a given moment. This is one of those cases where customizability is sacrificed for balance, but you're certainly free to do this.
Quote from: Ansehelm on March 11, 2021, 06:33:42 pm-To some degree, there will inevitably be progression/power creep that makes earlier skills/items/jobs less appealing in certain situations, but there are enough other skills/items/jobs that the game can still be interesting and full of variety. For example, in base FFT there are something like 19 swords/knight swords that you'll have access to by the endgame. When you're preparing to fight Vormav, Do you really need (or want) your knight unit to choose between 19 equally viable swords, plus a comparable set of every other piece of equipment? For me, that's neck deep in "analysis paralysis" territory: it's fine to have 4 or 5 equally viable swords to choose from (for sake of argument, let's say that there can be 5-6ish swords that are roughly viable from lvls 1-33, 5-6 from 33-66, 5-6 from 66-99). For the same reason that you wouldn't necessarily want to remain a squire all game, you wouldn't necessarily want to use your level 1 sword all game. Low level gear still has a purpose, for sale, or ammunition for your ninja. And from a design perspective, I would struggle to find a unique role for every item if the majority of them were intended to be equally useful at every stage in the game.
Absorb: 3Negate: 2Halve : 1None : 0Weak : -1
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amHoly cow, I was definitely not expecting such an... expansive reply. I immensely appreciate it. To try and reply to some of the main points, I am indeed trying to balance out skills and that does indeed include some skills that did not previously have an MP cost now having one. This was actually part of the spark for the idea of nixing growths, wanting to avoid making MP costs essentially irrelevant, which would double up with presumably better access to MP healing. Your reply did make me realize though that notably reigning in growth rates is a definitely viable option. You can have growth without it shaking up the meta too much, as it were. Which of course if I do that I might need to alter my weapon progressions, as I have the numbers tuned to vanilla-ish growths... I'll definitely have to look at some specific numbers. And honestly, unless I can very much boost EXP gain such that hitting level 99 by the end of the game isn't that hard then I honestly don't intend to tool the growths with too much mind towards the very top levels. Rather a reasonable range you're likely to hit in a playthrough.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amAll that said I think a growth retool might just be beyond my ambition. I will have to see. I don't want to make drastic changes too often to this project lest I end up spinning my wheels and losing motivation. (I know my initial proposal of removing growth is a drastic change as well but it's one that would require less redoing by me to make happen) What you seem to have with your equipment there isn't entirely unlike what I might have done with weapons, basically having a large variety of permutations covered with an eye towards more or less everything being represented close enough to equally. With growth being a thing though it definitely limits what I have available at any given point in the game (And I have very limited item slots)
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amI am trying to at least keep relatively consistent themes with most weapon types though. Swords are bereft of special qualities but have the best overall stats for a one handed weapon, daggers are weak but have a 100% proc rate for some status, ninjato are stronger than daggers and do status stuff but with far lower chance, katanas now use the PA and MA formula and focus on elements and spell procs, etc. So while you may not have access to all elements and stats at each tier you do have access to a base weapon, a stat weapon, a semi stat weapon, an elemental weapon, and more. Basically trying to make all weapon categories plenty viable so there's still a variety of good choices at any time (Also expanding class equipment options) And also as a space saver I sometimes combine fire and earth, ice and water, wind and lightning, so I can represent six elements with only three items.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amAs far as reducing grinding I am definitely focusing on the reduced JP angle. I'm aiming to have all classes take no more than 2000 JP to master (1000 for Squire and Chemist) though I may tweak that number if it's too low. Some classes had trouble fitting without feeling like I was making something too cheap, Time Mage being the prime example but that's due to having Meteor, Short Charge, and Teleport, all of which I believe warranted a significant price. So maybe I'll move one of those off. (Thinking about it, Short Charge on Mediator would make sense cause they could talk faster! And then Short Charge and Half MP are on opposite sides of the tree too. Thanks, I might not have thought of that without all this!)
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amI'm also aiming to have the game keep up with the player, having storyline battles scale with level but giving them fixed equipment and skill sets so that you can't put yourself in an awful spot with enemy equipment being like two tiers ahead of you like in 1.3. This makes grinding still useful for getting better skills but limits effectiveness by not having it push you above the enemies. That reduces the ability to beef up for a tough fight, but I would aim to balance the mod well enough that you don't need to majorly grind (I'll be honest, I usually see notable necessary or near necessary grinding in an RPG as bad game design) Random battle enemy equipment can grow ahead of the player still, but I'm removing stealing from the game so incentive to grind for that would be taken down as well.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amThank you for the idea of making more statuses incompatible, that's actually a great idea! As is giving more stats CTs, that was something I considered and it's probably a good idea.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amAlso I think I am going to make shields entirely sidegrade. I don't think evasion is something that needs to scale like it does, namely because there's no accuracy stat to raise in tandem with evasion. Evasion will vary, but it'll be in the balance of physical vs. magical evasion shifting as well as sacrificing evasion for other boons. (Mantles will receive similar treatment) Also I may make some non-shield off-hand items for non shield users. I'll definitely be overhauling accessories. So yeah, I think shields and accessories will be where I do a lot of the sidegrade implementation while weapons and armor are an upgrade trend. (Also I'm giving non-mantle accessories evasion but to a lesser degree. Mantles always felt nigh-necessary to me because of how good they get)
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 12, 2021, 05:11:30 amI think that was everything I had to say, but it's 5 AM so heck if I know. Also I'm going to make a topic for this mod soon explaining my plans and progress in more detail. Thank you so much for all the input, it's definitely given me some points to refine my plans.
Quote from: nitwit on March 13, 2021, 02:18:18 amI think you'd have to overcome some hardcoding to force perfumes into the shield slot, but once you do you could give them item attributes.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 13, 2021, 03:59:23 amMy plan for now unless I find a good way to do that is to simply take any shield slots I don't use (14 Shields is a lot when they're all sidegrades) and change the item type to ring or glove and change the graphics. That way it will have the graphics of a ring or glove and be equippable by anyone who can equip a ring or glove, but it goes in the hands because it used a shield slot.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 13, 2021, 03:59:23 am"Our plans are similar enough that you might benefit from my mod planning document. Do you want it? It's just a few text files with all my ideas and analysis, and a spreadsheet or two."I would be very grateful, thank you. Do you mind if I also post my notepad document with the current draft of my weapons rework?(Pardon the short reply, it's why am I up this late hours once again, lol)
Quote from: nitwit on March 13, 2021, 03:52:30 pmIssue here is that you can't limit your ring/perfume palette-swapped shields to specific classes. If you make them suitable for mages or non-warriors, then you're in a pickle because the AI will equip them. You need a separate category of items that you goes in the shield slot but can be set usable for classes separately from shields.
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 13, 2021, 03:57:30 pmI would change their type to one of the accessory types, then change any actual accessories of that type to a different type (So say I did rings, any shield slots I use will be set as rings and any existing rings will be changed) then set it so only the classes meant to use them can equip rings. So it would be a separate category from shields while still using the shield slot. (My cursory testing seems to indicate this will work as I think it will)
Quote from: Ramza Stan on March 13, 2021, 03:57:30 pmAnd here's the Notepad doc:
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