IMO the site's talent is being divided in between way too many people working on their own separate patch.
Wouldn't it be better to collaborate on broader, related, larger projects instead?
For example I see two different idea threads for a FFT Sequel patch.
Let's be honest, not many project ideas ever get off the ground very well, and even less become finished in a reasonable amount of time.
If we work together on focused, specific projects, we increase the chances of these projects taking off the ground and being turned into awesome completed mods.
Example: If everyone who worked on 1.3 had kept their own ideas for their own personal balance patches, instead of working together on a single project;
Then today we'd have 8 different "parts" of 1.3, each with great ideas, with the same purpose, but in separate patches, with different authors, none of them would have a forum section, and none of them would have a very large player base.
I think this site has a lot of talented people but we gotta be less focused on the personal project and more willing to work on community project which is always going to be superior.
Thoughts?
Completely agreed, Voldemort. We'd have to decide what to work on as a community.
You are correct Voldemort. The number of threads in this section almost doubled this week. Currently LastingDawn's Mercenaries patch is well supported and is making lots of head way, I would consider that a team effort in a lot of ways because LD asks for constant input and has several spriters backing him up (myself included). Zozma's project while new has also had a lot of work done on it.
I think something that everyone needs to realize is that if they actually want their project done they need to recruite people, and have something to show before starting a topic on it. And definitely have something to show or a lot of work done before requesting their own forum section.
I don't know if the phrasing, but Voldemort7 sounds he's proposing something slightly different from what you said, Cheetah.
Anyway, in theory this is sound, until you remember that 1.3 is kind of a bad example since that started off from something that already a group project AFAIK (i.e. 1.2), it's just that philsov disappeared (apparently).
1.3 is also a bad example because it didn't change anything sort-wise and focused purely on mechanics. A lot of the more recent patches (including my own, which hasn't been posted and won't be for some time) seem to be focusing on story, which is a particularly sticky issue when it comes to compromise.
I think we all know that feelings can be easily hurt over attempts at compromise, especially since every project will probably have some type of leader.
Basically, I would advise that if group thing need be mandatory as Voldemort7 seems to be implying--I think that's why I feel his post is different from yours, Cheetah--in the original post, that the groups should be kept small. I don't really think that groups need to extend beyond two or three people (not including beta testers) to keep it simple and easy (and to make it easier for people to stay focused on one patch with limited number of people we have around here), especially since it's probably easy to get away with having specialized focuses since we already have a lot of FFT's skeleton lain out before us.
For instance, I think that for my patch, I personally won't need anyone except for a spriter or two since everything else should be capable of being done by myself. (Then again, I'm not a relationship type person and compromise is something I see as usually screwing me over, so....)
Group talk aside, I would also advise for the original posts for threads in this forum be rather detailed, even if they are concise, as to the main gist of the changes.
Things are always subject to change--I think I've changed my new classes like 5 times already--but it's easier to support/get behind something if we know "exactly" what the hell it is.
/rambling
P.S. I find it odd that LastingDawn's project doesn't have it's own forum when the only other sub-forum besides 1.3 only have two people working on that project.
actually I think LD didn't want his own section, hes sure had enough votes for it, i know that much. the same goes for me, I don't really want to make it an official thing (at least untill im much further along anyway) but I do feel the need to post that way I have my ideas put down somewhere that i can get more.
Anyway I partially agree with you Voldemort, however, just like many who start their own patch, there are quite a few things I want to do exactly my way in the game. I don't mind helping out every now and then for a project thats going well, like mercenaries, but a big part of my enjoyment with fft patcher and shishi is that i get to have things my way, and its quite enjoyable. I can't even always commit to making specific sprites, i mean i created Misty and Jenna just because i felt like it at the time... just to name a few examples. I'm not planning a sequel or anything, it sounds like a big undertaking really, plus you'll need a whole new cast of characters since so many bit the big one in the main story. But I really wouldn't mind someone making it... still I wouldn't necessarily want to be the one editing all of the event stuff.... still, it is understandable that if several ppl are planning to make sequel patches or other patches that are very similar, they should come together on that if they want to share with everyone...
I completely agree, but we need an idea to move this along. I vote sequel, but to Ramza's descendant.
This does make a lot of sense as i stated my idea for a patch with only the basics on the drawing board. I still dont have more than some ENTD changes and text edits so this idea of Voldemorts makes a lot of sense to me. So now i must find the person who has a similar idea to mine and have a chat about teamwork.
The Damned:
I understand the whole compromise / feelings / involvement issue, but I think that's the part where people need to grow up and put aside their personal shit for the good of work being done.
I understand 1.3 isn't a perfect example, but trust me a lot of opinions went in there, and everyone (including me) had to come to a compromise on a ton of things
You think the criticism you hear now a days is harsh?
You should have seen Asmo go on the chat while 1.3 was getting started
And I'm to guess Asmo was one harsh beotch from hell.
Quote from: "Voldemort7"The Damned:
You think the criticism you hear now a days is harsh?
No, actually.
What I was trying to say was that I feel that if groups should come together, that it should be more "natural" than a "neccesity" as you seem to be saying.
Personally, I'd rather have too few people for my work rather than a large, vestigal amount of people who unnecessarily overlap and get nothing done.
true that
I'm not saying it's a necessity
I'm saying it can be a more efficient and beneficial method
Okay recruiting for a new patch. Get this it's a back story to the main games story with all of us as the characters who end up cleaning up where Ramza messes up. This is legit too not a parody. And by clean up duty lets say i dunno Zodiac is the one who saved Delita since it makes sense to make Zodiac the main character. And if that where to happen it would be funny cause it would mean Teta had nothing to do with his survival. So what do ya think stupid idea, good idea, i like cake, whatever.
The Damned and Voldemort 7:
Way ahead of you guys. I'm helping out Lydyn with his patch and we've made one helluva back-story. Amazing progress. I even tossed the idea by him of joining our stories in order to have a real in-depth game that would be ready in half the time. He lights the candle by his end and I light by mine.
However, sometimes this might not be such a good thing. Working around his story we stumbled upon the fact that some core elements of the plot did not cohere as I would've liked. However, I am still helping him out and the progress is staggering. He has some great ideas and things cooked up so this is a patch to be waiting for.
Also, much like the Zelda franchise, sometimes games based on the same places and people can have totally different stories. For instance, in what Voldemort is talking about, my example is that basically Lydyn and I have two different direct sequels for FFT. I don't think it's such a bad idea because it's just two different opinions of what's going on. Sometimes teamwork isn't enough to mix together two plots that diverge into completely different directions. Coming up with ideas for Lydyn, I found that it was oil and water. I even PMed him to forget about some ideas of the merger I tossed his way and to just keep it close to his own baby.
Mine, however, goes a different way, but has more or less the same feel. By me scratching his back and he mine, we're still gonna make hasty progress on our projects.
I agree totally on what you said, though Voldemort. I am one who believes that these types of things are finished faster in groups. So I merely ask for help in some areas in order to get this flowing. I am more than thankful for the attention and, just like Xmas, good things are worth the wait. Cuz by the time you finish playing one great game, the other one is fresh out the oven.
It's ok to focus on one's own major patch. Just also help others in the process :D
Lydyn and Disco:
You can probably get away with sharing some game mechanics changes (new spells/abilities, new sprites/jobs), while having different plots.
Think of it as a tree. Collaborated mechanics changes is the branch (growing from the original FFT), while the differing plots are the twigs sprouting from the branch.
I'm sleepy.
Question:
How much event and scenario editing can be done so far? From what I've seen of a lot of other projects, it seems that they take the same story sequences, but change the dialogue and sprites around. And you still fight in the same maps in the same order, on the same world map.
If so, then it might be best to work on finding out how to change these things, so that you can use the core engine of FFT, but make truly new games out of it.
And, it'd be nice to make truly new abilities, animations, as well as R, S and M abilities.
My idea of a fan-made PC pseudo-sequel to FFT is great. However, it'd be insanely hard to pull off, since we'd have to work from the ground up. There would have to be a ton of work put into it, and I think the technical skills required for it are above any of the people here. So this approach is potentially the most rewarding, but also the most difficult.
To samuchan:
Shared mechanics might be great in the sense of, for instance, Lydyn's patch coming out first and people getting used to the skills and the jobtree, etc. Then, when mines comes out, people will be familiarized with the mechanics and play my game in the same manner. This can be totally crippling to either game. Sometimes the fun of playing something comes from its freshness (ok, that sounded so 1995). I'd still like to keep as much different as possible without having to be selfish and not share any ideas. My ideas are not cast in iron and I don't mind people borrowing some of my ideas. However, the reality is just that. If too many things are the same, then there won't be as much fun to play the second one to come out. I don't know, that's just my fear. I'd rather help out as much as possible to get his patch out of the works as soon as possible. Mine too! I'd like for the FFT community to play my patch as well.
To Havermayer:
-Event and scenario editing:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/psx/downloads.php (http://www.ffhacktics.com/psx/downloads.php)
in the main page there are many useful programs for such a thing. The problem is knowing a bit of programming. Here:
http://www.ffhacktics.com/wiki/Event_Sc ... orrelation (http://www.ffhacktics.com/wiki/Event_Scripts_and_Scenario_Order_correlation) is some ASM directions of the scenes and scenarios in the game. How much is editable is still beyond me, but they are ever possible. So you can basically make your own SRPG game with the core FFT engine (within obvious limitations, of course).
-You can edit some skills (I have learned by both experimentation and orientation by skilled members here). For instance, you can't edit Item, Throw, Jump, and other skills that aren't <Default>. Also, the only editing you can give R, S, and M abilities are name changes, JP learned to master, which job learns it, and which job has them as innate abilities.
-Yes, I saw your post and your idea is good. If you really, really, really, really want to do it, I recommend programming it for the Nintendo DS. There are many sites out there dedicated to making homebrew games and applications for the DS. Just google that shit and download any and all tools. If you're good at C++ then you're saved! Cuz DS programming can be done in C++ via the NDS' PAlib (once again, google that shit, my friend). My dream is to one day make my RPG trilogy for the DS (I've been using RPGMaker 2000 for a loooooooong time and I'd like to remake them for a console - how kickass would that be!). And I plan to do it with this method. You want your idea? You gotta start from the ground up. Java was recommended, but if you wanna go hardcore and blow people's socks off, the NDS is the way. Also, with NDS emulators, you can play the game on a computer if you don't have the NDS or the necessary artifacts to run homebrew.
Do we have any patch that centers around Chocobo fighting? As in Chocobo Knights for enemies as well? We need some of that somewhere.
Edit: <Delete>
But if anyone has a patch they want me to test, I'd be more than happy to try it. Really just so I can steal your ideas, but don't take it personally.
Welcome back Vincent.
People are apparently a bit ignorant of all of which can be edited at this current time, with a slight bit of collaboration and a 3-5 person Research Department, we could crack many of the mysteries, that deals with nothing more then testing things out. As it stands, we can edit, the Whole of the Brave Story, from even the beta Facts, we can open Propositions and Fur Shop anytime we like, can have Ramza in any of his three outfits on the map screen, control game progression, and map progression, our editing powers are great, and all it takes is a bit of knowledge of Attack.out (which is where battle events, and scenarios are held) and Test.EVT's functions and the game is yours to command.
Quote from: "LastingDawn"People are apparently a bit ignorant of all of which can be edited at this current time, with a slight bit of collaboration and a 3-5 person Research Department, we could crack many of the mysteries, that deals with nothing more then testing things out. As it stands, we can edit, the Whole of the Brave Story, from even the beta Facts, we can open Propositions and Fur Shop anytime we like, can have Ramza in any of his three outfits on the map screen, control game progression, and map progression, our editing powers are great, and all it takes is a bit of knowledge of Attack.out (which is where battle events, and scenarios are held) and Test.EVT's functions and the game is yours to command.
We just need someone that knows all that
and is able to teach others clearly (no offense to those who've tried to help me, I am grateful).
Do we know where the little Map Ramza is stored though? I didn't realize we could do all the stuff you just mentioned, and I try to keep up with this stuff too.
Hmm... well we can guess he's somewhere on the map file, but I am referring to changing him through the B0 command the game uses at chapter changes. A lot of the things all deal with the B0 function. It's a bit tricky at first, but is quite simple, now for game progression, more testing is required on certain B0 functions at the end of eventts, but I believe I am close to figuring that out, after which a list would need made up.
Calling for help!
While I'm doing decent on my own for FFT: Resolution, I'd really appreciate some help on my project from anyone who can commit a decent amount of time to it. Disco_Peach and Zozma have helped a ton with some story ideas and spriting, but this is a rather big project. I could use any spriters (I know these are rare) and storyboard/idea people at the moment. I'll probably put a limit though, as to keep secrets ... secret.
Storyboard/Ideas
1) Disco_Peach
2)
3)
Spriters
1)
2)
Quote from: "Cheetah"Welcome back Vincent.
Glad to be back.
I could make up several excuses, but I really just needed time away from the game to appreciate how awesome it really is.
Like i said before, ill be glad to help out with storyboard/ideas.
I can brainstorm quite some in a short amount of time. Not to brag or anything but i think i could help out. This includes both Lydyn's patch and the Patch Collaboration itself.
reviving this topic so ppl readddd
dddd
K, I read the first post.
You're saying that the community work on certain patches all at once? I guess it makes sense. It helps patches get done much faster then the normal months to years that it seems to take.
The problem is deciding on a patch to support and work on. I personally like my patch, but that's because its my patch and I think I have some good ideas.
If I had to pick another patch to support... I'd choose... FFT: Remix. The other ones that I WOULD support (The Holy Armada, The Death Knight's Legend) don't really seem to have all their ideas together. "The Holy Armada" has a good story, but it doesn't really have a list of job changes or skill changes if there will be any. And "The Death Knight's Legend" doesn't seem to have its story solid, but that may be because he just doesn't want to ruin it.
NOTE: In my patch, Zozma, Zodiac, Vincent Craven, and Voldemort make appearances =D And... well, I do to as the main character xD but, trust me, the main character won't act like me.
Quote from: "Zalge"I personally like my patch, but that's because its my patch and I think I have some good ideas.
That's the entire frikken problem.
"My idea"
"Me"
"my patch"
"My jobs"
"My story"
people need to realize that their ideas aren't always the best ones and contribute to doing what they do best to help create a project that on the whole, is infinitely superior
that is why movies and TV shows have writers
people who are GOOD at making stories
we have DIRECTORS
we have ARTISTS
some people are better suited to certain things
but this whole "I am the best at everything because it's my patch and I want things my way"
is going to get:
1) alot of useless new project ideas that end up going nowhere
2) forum sections that end up seeing zero use
3) ideas / creative talent that goes to waste
4) people who are not satisfied because their work / ideas never even get seen or played by anyone
the selfishness needs to stop, and more people must agree to sacrifice their greedy vision of how a project must be and accept that others do certain things better than they can
I'll give you an example:
Mercenaries has a better story and better storyteller than the great deal of you will ever come up with (myself included)
instead of trying to top Mercenaries' story (you won't), we should be working ON mercenaries doing things that each is good at
I suck at spriting, but I have a pretty good idea for what makes a skill and job fun to play (I used to do heroes and abilities on several well-known WC3 mods such as DOTA:Allstars, DOTA:Original, Megalith, and a bunch of others) as well as worked on a bunch of RPG's for Brood War
that is something I can contribute to Mercenaries
you don't see me trying to incorporate my own vision of storyline into mercenaries (hell, I don't even try to incorporate anything of my own into 1.3, I just take the best ideas the community has to make the game better and implement them)
instead of going "fuck that, I will make MY OWN PATCH cuz I WANT THINGS MY WAY"
I go "this project is going places, let me abandon my patch that is going nowhere and put my effort and hard work into this project so that I can be known as having worked on it"
this will come across as extremely harsh to some
but this is seriously the situation on this site right now.
if you disagree, you're part of the problem
I disagree. If FFT:remix, 1.3, Mercenaries or SOR needs a bit of help, il gladly help the best i can (See, my speciality is simple event editing and battle ideas)
I can't disagree that 6-7 people on a pacth could be awesome, but it would be lame. The parts separated, the little changes everyone wants. I understand this is somewhat a mature community (please don't quote this) but problems would be all over the place.
I love COP and even if its not completed or near being completed, i like it when people comments on things i think off, its my creation.
Now stop being fucking harsh and thinking your ideas are awesome, nobody thinks the same way, and if we want our pacth, even if its slow, then we will do it.
FFH has given me a hobby of some sorts. Its many people's dream to make their own patch, their own edits etc. and even if some never complete their patches or edits, its the ride along the way that's important. at least to me.
I've contributed plenty for other patches just by making sprites and i sure as hell did not come here, on this free site with this program made for everyone's enjoyment to be told how to use it and what to use it for.
Quote from: "Zozma"I've contributed plenty for other patches and i sure as hell did not come here, on this free site with this program made for everyone's enjoyment to be told how to use it and what to use it for.
That's why there will always be a difference between a project the entire community works on and the lolpatch that only the creator ends up playing.
So start this collection patch and get ppl from this site to help you. that doesn't mean everyone is going to be interested in working on it. I'm not
Quote from: "Zozma"So start this collection patch and get ppl from this site to help you. that doesn't mean everyone is going to be interested in working on it. I'm not
this topic isn't about starting a new patch
I don't want another patch
but thanks for letting us know you wouldn't be interested should we need help from the community
it'll save us trouble later
Quote from: "Voldemort"this topic isn't about starting a new patch
I don't want another patch
then why are you complaining so much? If you don't like the fact that someone is making a patch, then just don't play that patch. Its funny how this topic resurfaces just all of a sudden.
Quote from: "Zozma"Quote from: "Voldemort"this topic isn't about starting a new patch
I don't want another patch
then why are you complaining so much? If you don't like the fact that someone is making a patch, then just don't play that patch. Its funny how this topic resurfaces just all of a sudden.
it resurfaced because of the staggering amount of new patches in this forum section lately
I'm not so much complaining as voicing the situation of what is happening right now
there is no denying that we have too many patches, and there is no denying that the great majority of them will never see completion for the reasons stated in the original post
that, is a waste of time
and I like seeing finished projects that people actually end up playing
not "the ride along" that never gets finished and only matters to one guy's personal enjoyment
Zozma, I think what he is trying to say, is that if we had more people working on one patch, it would increase the productivity of the patches, we would be pushing out patches more often rather than putting out maybe half of one ever year or two. With a lot of people working, that means more will get done, and more patches will be put out for the people's enjoyment rather than a bunch of people working alone or with one or two other people to make a bunch of patches.
yeah i get that, but bashing those who only want to work on their own or in small groups wont help anything. especially if there would have been a chance of them taking interest in the collaboration patch further down the line and contributing at least a small portion. Hell, if you had actually started something already instead i might want to contribute, but i dont see anything, and even if you had something going, id still work on my own project anyway in between that.
Quote from: "Zozma"Hell, if you had actually started something already instead i might want to contribute, but i dont see anything, and even if you had something going, id still work on my own project anyway in between that.
repeat: I am not starting my own patch and have zero interest in doing so
Lasting_Dawn did though, and it's had it's own forum section for months now
you don't see the Mercenaries forum section right there?
looks like a pretty cool community project doesn't it!!
like I said it'll come across as harsh to some, but the reality is the personal patch will never be of the same quality or receive the same attention as a real project
I know there's stubborn people who will continue to try and manifest their own vision of lolpatch anyway, and that's fine, but in my eyes it's just a waste of talent and resources that could be better spent on a real project
and not a personal looooolpatch
I don't get it, why getting angry on that. Yes 80% of the pacthes in the New projects forum won't ever be completed. But geez, some will, and making a gigantic group to make pacthes 300% faster won't make them better. Those that will die will die, and the others will be made for fun, not because it's work and its gotta be done.
yeah, one that I've, contributed things to myself. But i could easily see myself losing interest in it with people trying to force it on me. It then becomes a chore and not something fun to work on.
Well, I was annoyed by it when I first read it. And I can understand why you wouldn't exactly want to help, because you are really deep into your patch, you don't want to have to take time to come up with ideas and work on other patches. I would suggest your patch as a community patch, but I'm not sure that you would like it, or in other words, I wouldn't know if you prefer to work alone or not. I mean, a majority of people seem to support your patch, it seems like an obvious choice for a community patch... that or the other patches that already have sections...
Well, either way, I see where both of you are coming from, and Voldemort probably was being a bit too harsh, but it is really common on this site from what I've scene for people to come up with their own ideas and not follow through, just leaving their project there and not working on it at all if they work on it anymore at all. And because they still have a patch, they feel that it needs their attention when someone else has a patch that they would like to help with but they "still have their own to work on". I think that was mainly the stereotype that Voldemort was addressing, not you, Zozma.
Quote from: "Kokojo"I don't get it, why getting angry on that.
no one here's angry
QuoteYes 80% of the pacthes in the New projects forum won't ever be completed.
Those that will die will die, and the others will be made for fun, not because it's work and its gotta be done.
The problem with this mentality is that all the time / effort / resources that went into those patches that die is a WASTE OF TIME FOR THIS SITE
QuoteBut geez, some will, and making a gigantic group to make pacthes 300% faster won't make them better. .
you seem to miss the point of the topic
it's not about cranking patches faster
it's about cranking out one big quality patch instead of 1 personal patch for every fucking member that joins the site
QuoteI think that was mainly the stereotype that Voldemort was addressing
correct
to bump a old topic....this is a really really good idea...
In reality... hence FFT:Complete. That's the closest thing thus far to a community project.
Speaking of community efforts, LD.
Do me a favor and bug me about those weapon graphic edits I said I'd do this weekend pls.
Sure... alright? Which ones were you going to look at? Smash already has the claws under control, but if you could perhaps look at changing the Dancer's cloths or the Bag (either one is fine by this point) into cards (I guess similar to Gambit), that would be great! Also if you can turn the Poles into something that look... well gun like.
Mr. Arch's idea is a really good one.
But for it to work, you would need some sort of hierarchy. One leader with veto power.
And the others would need to swallow their elephant-sized egos.
However, there is nothing wrong with personal mods because they get you experience. They only become a problem if the modder is only willing to work toward his own vision.
In light of all the failed patches, and Mercenaries is the only one that looks like it's going to get finished anytime soon. I think people need to stop having the I can do it all on my own attitude then bail out when they realize that's it too much work. A group project is really the only way to go. Otherwise were going to be seeing VERY FEW FINISHED projects in the foreseeable future.
Quote from: "Smitson"In light of all the failed patches, and Mercenaries is the only one that looks like it's going to get finished anytime soon. I think people need to stop having the I can do it all on my own attitude then bail out when they realize that's it too much work. A group project is really the only way to go. Otherwise were going to be seeing VERY FEW FINISHED projects in the foreseeable future.
exactly
Does anyone else find these new ideas a bit stale? Here is my new story and here are my job changes. Oh im changing Archer to Hunter and x to Necro and here is a list of skills that do damage and status effects. YAWN.
There probably won't ever be a community patch because people are too interested in their own projects and there definitely won't ever be one without ideas that are fresh.
Vincent and I threw out ideas like every character in the game being a monster or a drastically simplified version of the game for balance where every skillset is kind of distilled down into its essential features (or removed along with the job completely) and everything that breaks balance is removed outright. It was also a lvl1 game with no skill/item progression (everything is available at the start) and the elements were differentiated by properties (fire = range, lightning = shorter charge, ice = more damage). Also there was no brave/faith or zodiac bullshit. In the end we also wanted it to be primaries-only too because we wanted to increase the opportunity cost of choosing jobs.
Anyway neither of these ideas were quite possible but I would much rather work on something like that than the lastest pipedream fantasy story with some generic job/skill swaps.
I think a monster only or even just monster-centric game would be really cool, where perhaps the humans are all special characters with set or limited class selection and the monster characters have all the jobs.
Squire becomes Wilder (demihuman, poor innate skills but can use human equipment and have higher natural stat growth), Human characters would be represented by special job classes.
Wilder is not the prerequisite for any jobs, not on its own at least, and each monster line would require levels in itself in order to progress (so only characters that entered the party with levels in say, Panther, could advance the Beast job line)
I think the idea for the monster patch was sort of synonymous with our ideas for the simplified FFT patch. Monsters get less skills and no secondaries so if you split up all the useful shit in enough ways you give the player tougher choices. Anyway, it's not really possible.
Lots of people seem to want see an FFTA-ized version of FFT. Changes to the equipment and jobs wouldn't seem that hard. We couldn't add in any extra classes of course, so it'd be a work in progress until we can.
But that's something that we can all work on :3
When I think of community projects it brings to mind stuff with a larger scope like a complete job/skill overhaul with a new story.
Some of the ideas I thought were cool were remakes of Vandal Hearts, FFXII, Vagrant Story, FFTA/2, or a real sequel/prequel to FFT. Something worth of our accumulated knowledge and talent.
The most important thing, however, is going to be a dedicated director to keep the project going and organized. It's all talk until somebody can walk.
Quote from: "Vanya"When I think of community projects it brings to mind stuff with a larger scope like a complete job/skill overhaul with a new story.
same here