General => Archives => FFT: ASM'd => Topic started by: philsov on December 21, 2010, 01:22:31 pm
Title: Monsters
Post by: philsov on December 21, 2010, 01:22:31 pm
*equips flame-suit*
Monsters are normalized in ASM'd -- they lose their tiered system and more just variants -- stats are equal so that a Yellow Choco is the same as a Black one, e.g. The only difference is their unique ability. Biggest change ASM'd does is give monsters a unique skillsets which removes the need for monster skill but more importantly expands their abilities. They will all have the attack command by default and then feature 3 family abilities coupled with a species-specific ability. To this end, the "monster skills" are now just normally powered skills. Monsters are still specialized but powerful units. In addition to this all monsters gain secondary reaction abilities which is just another lovely thing to be triggered.
On top of this, the inclusion of human-like skillsets (not that JP is involved or anything) means that a) breeding is not possible and b) monsters can be limited by MP since if MP is set it will be reduced. Thus, some of the better monster abilities will be gaining an MP cost to prevent mega spammage, but I'm still working out which ones and how much and all that jazz.
So... please review these as desired:
- anything warrant a rename? Kinda suck in the naming department - Do the counters work? Could use improvement? etc - Do the abilities/monster skills work? Improvement, etc
How multiple reactions work: If they share the same trigger (counter and hamedo, e.g.) they stack multiplicatively -- on a monster with 70 Br they have a 70% chance to do their first reaction and then if that doesn't go off they have a second 70% chance (21% net - 30% chance remaining times 70%) for a total chance of 91% to somehow react to the attack. On seperate triggers (counter and counter magic, e.g.) it's 70% on both fronts.
Counter List:
Abandon PA Save Auto Potion Auto Protect Damage Split Gilgame Heart MA Save Regenerator Speed Save Blade Grasp Brave Up Counter Condemn Dragon Spirit Auto Shell Critical Quick HP Restore Meatbone Slash MP Restore Absorb Used MP Projectile Guard Catch Counter Flood Counter Magic Distribute Faith Up Finger Guard Hamedo MP Switch Awareness
Regarding stats -- all growth is set to 5 HP / 25 PA / 25 MA / 170 Sp. This is more advanced than humans (7/40/40/190, at max) but then again monsters don't have gear to equip or supports to swap. The only difference rests in their multipliers, which range from 100 to 180 depending on the stat and the monster.
Abilities marked with an asterisk (*) are the ones learnable by the Blue Mage.
Chocobo: speedy and mobile, but with low HP and minor evade. Notably have choco meteor as their primary attack function -- it's weaker than other iterations but it gives them a bit of defense by proxy. Primary support units, with almost all their moves being Self + 1 AoE in nature.
HP: med C.Ev: low PA: low MA: med Sp: high M/J: 4/4 Elements: Neutral to all
Sleeper Hold - 1 range attack with high success rate to Sleep the target Goblin Punch - 1 range attack, dealing damage in the difference in their HP. 50+PA% success rate. Spin Fist - Monk version Magic Hammer - 3 range attack, deals 50% MP damage. 70+PA% chance to work, P.Ev-able Zap - 3 range 1 AoE attack dealing MA*10 lightning damage, with a possible Stop proc Mutilate - 1 range 75% HP Attack with moderate success rate
Bomb - Your fiery friend and mine, these lovable little scamps specialize in fire damage.
HP: med C.Ev: low PA: low MA: med-high Sp: med M/J: 2/3 Elements: Absorb Fire, Half Ice, Weak to Water
Eruption - 3 range single target fire attack, dealing MA*12 damage Self Destruct - deals HP difference in self AoE 2, inflicting oil in the process Drench - 3 range 1 AoE with smart targetting - inflicts Oil or Don't Act at about 65+MA% success rate each Spark - Self AoE 2 fire damage, healing self and hurting everything around it Immolate - 5 range linear fire damage Small Bomb - 3 range 1 AOE dealing fire damage
Panthers - Status-heavy kitties.
HP: med C.Ev: high PA: med MA: low Sp: high M/J: 3/4 Elements: Neutral
Poison Nail - 4 range single target - inflicts poison at 100%. Unevadeable Screech - 2 range single target -- cancels Charging on a unit, dealing 51% HP damage to it in the process. Max success rate (faith based) Execute - Archer version - cancels critical on a unit, dealing 21% HP damage. Cat Kick - ???? Blaster - 3 range single target - Randomly inflicts Stop, Petrify, or Don't Move onto the target. 50+MA% success rate Blood Suck - 1 range single target - drains 25% HP
Squids - Intelligent and misunderstood creatures of the deep.
HP: med C.Ev: med-high PA: med MA: high M/J: 2/3 Elements: Absorb Water, Cancel Fire, Weak Lightning
General: Odd Soundwave / Negation / Aqua Breath Tier 1: Transference Tier 2: Rub Tier 3: Mind Blast
Odd Soundwave - 3 range single target 65+MA% that inflicts either confusion or berserk Negation - 3 range 1 AoE ability that dispels beneficial effects from enemies Aqua Breath - 1 range 1 AoE MA-based damage. Water ele, useful for self healing. Mind Blast - 3 range single target dealing MA*13 non-elemental damage with a Stop proc Rub - 4 range single target inflicting Dead with moderate success rate Transference - 3 range single target Quick effect. Slightly higher success rate than TM Quick, but still faith-based.
General: Necrotic Touch / Aqua Soul* / Death Tier 1: Horrify Tier 2: Blackout Tier 3: Liturgy
Necrotic Touch - Attack with a chance to inflict Undead Aqua Soul - 3 range single target dealing MA*16 damage; water ele Death - Wizard version Horrify - 3 range 1 AoE 0 vert tol - Slows targets with 100% + M.Ev Blackout - 3 range 1 AoE 2 vert tol - Blinds target with 100% + M.Ev Liturgy - 3 range + 1 AoE - Adds either Sleep or Undead; 65+MA%
Ghouls - Tormented souls, and misery loves company.
Throw Spirit - 3 range attack Drain Touch* - 1 range ability which drains 33% of the targets Max MP Irreverence - 3 range single target damage; Dark elemental which deals more damage the more faithless the target is Lurid Wave - 1 Range 1 AoE dealing MA*20 damage (also drastically healing the ghost in the process) Zombie Touch - 1 range ability which attempts to inflict Undead on the target Possess - 4 range ability which attempts to Charm an enemy. Persevering.
Flotiball - MA-heavy foes with a perchance for status infliction.
HP: med C.Ev: med PA: med MA: high Sp: med-high M/J: 2/4 Elements: half all
Doom - 2 range ability, 75+MA% chance to inflict Death Sentence Hyponsis - 2 range ability, 70+MA% chance to inflict either confusion or sleep Radiance - 3 range singe target, inflicts Reflect status with high success rate Gaze - 5 range single target ability dealing non-elemental damage. MA*11 Light Whisper - 3 range + 1 AoE ability randomly dealing Holy and MA-based damage to the area Circle - Reduces targets MA by 5
Juravis - Mobile and speedy, with a nice mix of status, self-buffs, and ranged AoE.
HP: low C.Ev: high PA: med MA: low Sp: high M/J: 3/4 Elements: Absorb: Wind, Cancel: Lightning, Weak: Earth
Shine Lover: self-only haste+regen Beak: 1 range 45+MA chance to petrify targets Aero: 3 range single target MA*X wind damage Cripple: 1 range ability that breaks PA by 4 Hurricane: 3 range 2 AoE ability that knocks off 60% HP on targets Feather Bomb: 6 range single target MA*10 damage (light damage but snipes well)
Uribo - Lovable little scamps, boasting mostly defensive abilities.
Nose Breath: 1 range 50+MA% charm Oink: 1 range ability that revives fallen allies at 70% HP Warn: Mediator version. 3 range 1 AoE that inflicts Defend. Oinkment: 2 range single target ability that cleanses status ailments, healing them for 33% of their health in the process Exalt: 1 range ability that inflicts Reflect and Faith to the target. High success rate. Vivify: Self-only reraise+shell at 100%
Woodmen: Specializing in self-AoE effects. Very defensive-oriented skillset.
HP: med-high C.Ev: low PA: med-high MA: high Sp: med M/J: 2/2 Elements: Absorb: Earth, Cancel: Water, Weak: Fire
Leaf Dance - Self AoE 2 dealing earth-elemental damage to all enemies within range Regeneration - Self AoE 2 granting the Regen status to all allies within range Prune - Map-wide effect that removes Regen from allies but heals them for 100% HP Barrier Spirit - Self AoE 2 granting either Protect or Shell to all allies within range Mending Spirit - Self AoE 2 healing both the body and mind of all allies within range - heals PA*10 HP, PA*5 MP Rebirth - Self AoE 2 reviving all allies within range at very low health
Bull Demon - Damage-heavy foes, with a good spread of melee, AoE, and status.
HP: high C.Ev: med PA: high MA: med Sp: med M/J: 3/3 Elements: Absorb: Earth, Cancel: Fire, Weak: Water
Wave Around - PA-based self AoE 1 damage Berserk - 3 range single target 50+MA% chance to inflict Berserk its target Accumulate - Squire version - boosts PA Holy - Priest version, faith/MA based damage Blow Fire - 3 range Linear fire attack, dealing MA*X damage to all targets in range Mimic Titan - Self AoE 2, dealing MA*12 Earth damage
Morbols - Quite the hybrid nowadays.
HP: med-high C.Ev: med PA: med-high MA: med Sp: low M/J: 2/2 Elements: Absorb: Water, Cancel: Earth, Weak: Ice
Reaction 1: PA-Save Reaction 2: MA-Save
General: Drain Tentacle / Collide / Bad Breath Morbol: Lick Ochu: Goo Great Morbol: Bio
Drain Tentacle: Weapon strike with HP absorb effect Collide: melee range, PA*20 damage as the Morbol receives backlash. Bad Breath: Self-AoE of 2 dealing an array of status effects Lick: ???MP restoration move for melee-range target??? Goo: 4 range single target MA*16 damage with a poison proc Bio: 3 range 1 AoE dealing MA*12 damage with seperate blind, silence, and oil procs. smart targetting
Behemoths - Damage-heavy monsters.
HP: high C.Ev: low PA: high MA: med-high Sp: low M/J: 2/3
Reaction 1: Counter Reaction 2: Counter Magic
General: Roar* / Comet / Boost Behemoth: Gigaflare King Behemoth: Blaze Dark Behemoth: Lifebreak
Roar - Unevadable melee attack - slightly weaker than standard attack Comet - Time Mage version, dealing Fa/MA damage to a single target Boost - Self-only perk of +15 Brave (maybe 20? idk) Gigaflare - 3 range 2 AoE MA*12 damage Life Break - 2 range single target dealing damage in HP difference Blaze - 4 range 3 AoE fire elemental dealing MA*9 damage to enemies in the area
Dragon - More diversified than your normal monster family. Only PA component is their normal attack (which still hurts);
HP: High C.Ev: med-high PA: High MA: med Sp: med M/J: 2/3 Elements - Dragon: Absorb: Lit, Cancel: Dark,Holy, Weak: Water Blue D: Absorb: Ice, Cancel: Dark,Holy, Weak: Fire Red D: Absorb: Fire, Cancel: Dark,Holy, Weak: Ice
Reaction 1: Dragon Spirit Reaction 2: Counter
General: Shatter / Wall / Disrupt Dragon: Lit Breath Blue Dragon: Ice Breath* Red Dragon: Flame Breath
Shatter - Knight; cancels a units defending/protect/shell and harms them for 33% HP damage Wall - Priest; provides protect and shell to a target Disrupt - 3 range single target, inflicts either Don't Act or Don't Move with 65+MA%. Lit/Ice/Flame Breath - 2 range MA*12 elemental damage
Hydras: 3 heads = triple the fun.
HP: med-high C.Ev: med PA: med-high MA: med-high Sp: med M/J: 2/3 Elements: Absorb: Fire, Lightning, Weak: Ice, Wind
Reaction 1: Regenerator Reaction 2: Dragon Spirit
General: Triple Attack / Triple Flame / Mega Breath Hyudra: D-Power Up Hydra: Triple Thunder Tiamat: Dark Whisper
Triple Attack - 3-way 1-panel PA-based attack Triple Flame - 3-way 2-panel MA*10 fire damage Mega Breath - 3 range dragon-like breath. Fire/Thunder/Dark elemental dealing MA*~12 damage D-Power Up - 3 range Dragon-only that separately inflicts Protect/Shell/Haste/Regen at ~50% Triple Thunder - 3-range AoE 1 MA-based attack. randomly hits 3 times Dark Whisper* - 3-range AoE 1 MA-based attack, randomly hits 3 times. Hits harder than triple thunder but has higher vert tol
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Dokurider on December 22, 2010, 01:30:27 am
Do they still have elemental weaknesses? Perhaps it would be a good idea to include monster status immunities as well. It would help formulating attacks by basing them around their weaknesses. I like what you did with the tiers. I like it WAY more than 1.3's that's for sure.
Chocobos: Love it
Goblins: I'm guessing Magic Hammer is there to try to stop Wizards from Ice Bombing them? Although if it was, it would have to be ranged. I'm not really sure what Goblins are supposed to do with Zap though. Seems a little out of their element, being magical and lightning elemental and all. Anti-Squid duty? Do they even have any MA to run it off of? Perhaps Goblins could benefit from having a Self Protect/Regen Spell? As for a Monster Skill, how about their old Goblin Punch from 1.3?
Bombs: Like it
Panthers: Poison Nail = Hardcore. As for a MS, how about a plain old ranged attack called Pounce? Or Self Float? Or maybe an attack that can only effect Poisoned units?
Squids: Love the MS
Skeletons: Love it, but I'd need some convincing to like Beckon, though. Maybe high% Undead Sleep instead?
Ghosts: I kinda liked Blade Grasp as a reaction, but maybe it's for the best. Do they still teleport?
Flotiballs: Like it
Juravis: Like it
Uribos: Would having their MS be some form of MBarrier be too much?
Woodmen: Does prune require actually having Protect/Shell/Regen on to work, or does it work irregardless?
Minotaurs: Love it
Morbols: Love it
Behemoths: Does Blaze hurt allies as well? Because if not, that would suck for the MSer
Dragons: Love it
Hydras: Awareness = Nice Touch. D-Barrier? I think you meant D-Whisper. Otherwise, I love it.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 23, 2010, 02:59:22 am
I'm not gonna lie, I'm honestly not quite feeling a number of these, but I'll put up grievances when I have a bit more time.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 23, 2010, 07:37:27 am
Only going to comment on movesets because "tX" is too vague in most cases to really say much on.
Quote from: philsov on December 21, 2010, 01:22:31 pmChocobo: speedy and mobile, but with low HP and minor evade. Notably have choco meteor as their primary attack function -- it's weaker than other iterations but it gives them very little reason to be in the thick of things. Primary support units, with almost all their moves being Self + 1 AoE in nature.
Choco Meteor - 3 range MA*Y damage, unevadeable. Choco Esuna - Self + AoE status cleansing, doing a majority of nasty status Choco Cure - Self + AoE HP curing Choco Guard - Self + AoE Protect or Shell effect Kweh?!? - Self + AoE Haste effect
Only 3 range on Choco Meteor really still does leave them "in the thick of things."
I dislike Choco Guard on principle that you need to toss a coin and hope you get the damage reducer you want, adding a luck element to tactics involving a Chocobo support unit that honestly doesn't feel necessary.
Their monster skill is... Haste? That's seriously it? :/ Some of the Monster Skills in 1.3 were seriously ridiculous until they got redone (and now I don't know how balanced or imbalanced they are because I'm not touching 1.3 again until 1.3035 comes out and I can test drive all my new toys at once) but that's not even worth it if it's Self+1, even if it's 100% rate.
Magic Hammer - 1 range attack, deals 50% MP damage. 80+% chance to work, P.Ev-able Goblin Punch - 1 range attack, dealing damage in the difference in their HP. 50%+ success rate. Zap - 3 range 1 AoE attack dealing MA*Y lightning damage, with a possible Stop proc ???? - ????
Meatbone Slash... I guess it's React: Goblin Punch.
Magic Hammer needs more range to be useful personally, since once the Goblin's at range-1 you want them attacking or using Goblin Punch, not trying to Magic Hammer a mage that's already dropped shit on their heads.
Spark - Self AoE 2 fire damage, healing self and hurting everything around it Eruption - 3 range single target fire attack, dealing MA*Y damage Self Destruct - deals HP difference in self AoE 2, inflicting oil in the process Drench - 3 range 2 AoE with smart targetting - inflicts Oil and/or Slow (seperate) at about 75% success rate each
It's all basic, so I can't say much.
Drench - huge area, but also seems hugely unreliable unless its unevadable. Better than the Chocobo's Monster Skill by far but at the end of the day it's still Faithless Slow 2 that sometimes tosses Oil on for funsies.
Don't put Spark and Self Destruct on the same set unless you make Bombs weak to Fire so the healing is large enough to matter.
Attack - Normal attack Screech - 2 range single target -- cancels Charging on a unit, dealing 33% HP damage to it in the process. Max success rate (faith based) Poison Nail - 4 range single target - inflicts poison at 100%. Unevadeable Blaster - 3 range single target - Randomly inflicts Stop, Petrify, or Don't Move onto the target. ~60%+ success rate
Why are you using Death over 2D for Screech exactly?
Attack - Yeah Negation - 3 range 1 AoE ability that dispels beneficial effects from enemies Mind Blast - 3 range single target dealing MA*Y non-elemental damage with a Don't Act proc Odd Soundwave - 3 range single target Faith-based ability that inflicts either confusion or berserk Transference - Squid manipulates time to cause their ally to immediately take another turn. ~100% Quick effect
So Dispel, standard MA damage with lucky proc, Status skill that seems to needlessly require Faith. Mmk.
Transference, why the fuck is that a Monster Skill? Can it hit anything on the map or have a solid range combined with an Effect Area?
Necrotic Touch - Attack with a chance to inflict Undead Aqua Soul - 3 range single target dealing MA*Y damage; water ele Horrify - 2 range 1 AoE 0 vert tol - Slows targets with high success rate Ice Soul - 3 range single target dealing MA*Y damage; ice ele Beckon - Persuades fellow undead to join the cause. Undead-only Invite skill with 30%+ success rate
Why the fuck does one of the Skeletons have two -Soul moves? Tier 1 and Tier 3 are carbon copies with a slightly different Element.
Horrify - so it's Slow without the Faith factor and I think poorer range? :/
Beckon - So, I need a guy with Monster Skill, land a lucky proc or sport an Oracle, get a worthwhile Enemy under Undead status, get him, the Monster Skiller, and the Skeleton all close together with the Monster Skiller and Skeleton being both adjacent and on roughly the same height... for a 30-35%ish chance to land my skill? I know it's Invite and all and I'll admit it's a cool idea with a ton of flavor, but it is ridiculously impractical and something I would honestly never use unless I was using Monster Skill for something else and had this situation occur by accident.
Throw Spirit - 3 range attack Drain Touch* - 1 range ability which drains 33% of the targets Max MP Irreverence - 3 range single target damage; Dark elemental which deals more damage the more faithless the target is Possess - 4 range ability which attempts to Charm an enemy. Persevering. Dark Wave - 1 Range 1 AoE dealing MA*X damage (also drastically healing the ghost in the process)
Ghosts are actually pretty cool. Irreverence and Possess are rather unique and useful.
Dark Wave, however... even if that's smart targeted, that's all the hell of making a Monster Skill setup work to hit what's usually only going to be one enemy, if that, and heal self. Definitely doesn't seem worth it at all. EDIT: I misread it slightly, it can extend for up to two panel range, but it would have to be smart targeted and pretty great at damage considering I have to give up my Support on a human unit and place two units in close range of the enemy.
Hyponsis - 2 range ability, MA+X chance to inflict either confusion or charm Doom - 2 range ability, MA+X chance to inflict Death Sentence Gaze - 5 range single target ability dealing non-elemental damage. Charge time + faith based Light Whisper - 4 range + 1 AoE ability randomly dealing Holy and MA-based damage to the area
Hypnosis should inflict Sleep over Confusion.
Doom is meh unless Death Sentence expires more quickly and the hit rate is solid. Otherwise the Ahriman just walked in range to get itself killed while giving plenty of time to allow the player to move the inflicted unit somewhere they can easily damage control things.
Why the hell is Gaze Faith based?
Light Whisper... there's nothing wrong with it and it looks like the first Monster Skill I'd actually use out of these, but where the hell did the inspiration come from? Looks entirely out of left field.
Terrific: 1 range MA+X charm Radiant: 2 range ability that cleanses the target of status ailments, healing them for 33% of their health in the process Humble: 1 range ability that revives fallen allies at 70% HP ??? - Hell if I know what the real ability will be but it'll be called Some Pig.
Just us the original names for Terrific / Humble. :/
Leaf Dance - Self AoE 2 dealing earth-elemental damage to all enemies within range Regeneration - Self AoE 2 granting the Regen status to all allies within range Barrier Spirit - Self AoE 2 granting either Protect or Shell to all allies within range Mending Spirit - Self AoE 2 healing both the body and mind of all allies within range Rebirth - Self AoE 2 reviving all allies within range at very low health Pruning - Map-wide effect that removes Protect, Shell, and/or Regen from allies but heals them for 100% HP
"Very defensive-oriented" - What the fuck are they doing with Counter Flood then?
Otherwise its fine I guess, but they've basically got Choco Guard 2.0 going on right down to the random element.
Holy - Priest version, faith/MA based damage Wave Around - PA-based self AoE 1 damage Berserk - 3 range single target MA+X chance to inflict Berserk on either itself or target Mimic Titan - MA-based self AoE 2, dealing Earth damage Tremble - MA-based attack dealing damage through 5 total range (earth slashish)
Berserk - "on either itself or target"? How did you rig this up?
Morbol: Attack / Drain Tentacle / Goo / Bio Ochu: Attack / Drain Tentacle / Bad Breath / Bio Great Morbol: Attack / Goo / Bad Breath / Bio
Drain Tentacle: Weapon strike with HP absorb effect Goo: 4 range single target MA-based damage with a poison proc Bad Breath: Self-AoE of 2 dealing an array of status effects
Attack and Drain Tentacle on the same set is redunant and you know it. You may as well give them all Drain Tentacle / Goo / Bad Breath / Bio if this is your plan, they'd be better off. There's no reason to use the tier 1 Morbol, and while Drain Tentacle and Bad Breath together seems alluring, it basically means you only have two skills so the Great Morbol will almost always be the best of the bunch to use in terms of skills because it has range, melee, and Bad Breath all in one set.
It would've been cool for you to define exactly what "Bio" refers to. I know you consolidated all the Bio spells into about 3 Spells total, but it kinda sucks to have to go look that up especially since that still doesn't tell what the range and area are, meaning I can't evaluate whether Monster Skilling with Morbols is worth it.
Roar - Unevadable melee attack - slightly weaker than standard attack Gigaflare - 3 range 2 AoE MA-based damage Life Break - 2 range single target dealing damage in HP difference Blaze - 4 range 3 AoE dealing MA-based damage to everything in the area
My only issue with this is that Blaze can very easily nail the Monster Skiller. It's another usable Monster Skill at last regardless though, even if it seems a bit redundant as its Gigaflare 2.0.
Dragon: Attack / Lit Breath / Shatter / Mega Breath Blue Dragon: Attack / Ice Breath* / Wall / Mega Breath Red Dragon: Attack / Flame Breath / Reraise / Mega Breath
Lit/Ice/Flame Breath - 2 range MA-based elemental damage Shatter - Knight; cancels a units defending/protect/shell and harms them for 33% HP damage Wall - Priest; provides protect and shell to a target Reraise - Priest; provides Reraise to a target Mega Breath - 3 range MA-based tri-elemental damage
Did you just run out of ideas giving them Shatter/Wall/Reraise? Or is it a skill slot thing? Regardless, toss Reraise for something else, they have fucking Dragon Spirit innate and Red Dragons aren't exactly Supporting units.
Triple Attack - 3-way 1-panel PA-based attack Triple Flame - 3-way 2-panel MA-based attack Triple Thunder - 3-range AoE 1 MA-based attack. randomly hits 3 times Dark Whisper - 3-range AoE 1 MA-based attack, randomly hits 3 times. Hits harder than triple thunder but has higher vert tol
Nifty edit to Triple Flame, but it seems a tiny bit undermined because Triple Thunder and Dark Whisper are still counterparts. Dragon Barrier yeah, it's not something I'd go out of my way to equip Monster Skill for most likely, but if I'm running something like a Behemoth that has a huge and worthwhile Monster Skill, I'd be inclined to use a Hydra class even if I wouldn't normally if only for the extra synergy and the fact a Hydra class with all those buffs is tearing a hole in something, so it passes well enough.
Not a bad start, mostly Monster Skills need work and the Morbols got kinda flopped. Your Reactions also didn't seem to be spread out all that much, there was a lot of redundancy going on. Lots of Caution and Awareness, which I guess work as default "secondary" Reactions... but there's also a lot of Counter, 2-3 instances of Critical Quick, etc. Both Dragon families also just have Dragon Spirit and an incredibly common secondary Reaction... eh. Also, animals have no God, remember?
Maybe I'm being an overly critical dick but I have high standards. :p
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Eternal on December 23, 2010, 09:51:27 am
I'm loving some of these monster skills, particularly the Ghosts'. Mind if I use some of these for Parted Ways? I'm at a loss for monster skills.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on December 23, 2010, 10:50:06 am
QuoteMaybe I'm being an overly critical dick but I have high standards. :p
Oh, indeed. I was looking forward to your post :) I'm going out of town today and I'll be back in a few days, so I'll give the wall of text reply then.
@Eternal - go for it dude
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pm
Aaaand, back. On a sidenote forgive the X's all over the place -- balancing monster and human MA relative to HP scaling is a bitch with the blue mage in play. Fuckin BM's.
QuoteDo they still have elemental weaknesses? Perhaps it would be a good idea to include monster status immunities as well.
Yes, the weaknesses are still around. Most of the monsters that are weak to something also have an absorb, and many of the absorbers are doubly weak for healing funsies. I'll update the OP with changes from this post and ele and immunities stuff shortly.
QuoteOnly 3 range on Choco Meteor really still does leave them "in the thick of things."
I dislike Choco Guard on principle that you need to toss a coin and hope you get the damage reducer you want, adding a luck element to tactics involving a Chocobo support unit that honestly doesn't feel necessary.
Their monster skill is... Haste? That's seriously it? :/ Some of the Monster Skills in 1.3 were seriously ridiculous until they got redone (and now I don't know how balanced or imbalanced they are because I'm not touching 1.3 again until 1.3035 comes out and I can test drive all my new toys at once) but that's not even worth it if it's Self+1, even if it's 100% rate.
3 range is the standard range for "range" -- it keeps them out of melee so they're less likely to be swarmed. They have rather absurd move so I'm leery to give them 4. Understood on the guard/haste then... may as well go two birds one stone? Hee... birds.
Choco haste - self AoE 1 with 1 or 0 vert tol at ~85% or 100% success rate Choco Guard - self AoE 1 with 2 vert tol - Protect and Shell to self+allies
Works better, maybe?
QuoteMagic Hammer needs more range to be useful personally, since once the Goblin's at range-1 you want them attacking or using Goblin Punch, not trying to Magic Hammer a mage that's already dropped shit on their heads.
Zap makes me think you've been in my notes.
I'm guessing Magic Hammer is there to try to stop Wizards from Ice Bombing them? Although if it was, it would have to be ranged. I'm not really sure what Goblins are supposed to do with Zap though. Seems a little out of their element, being magical and lightning elemental and all. Anti-Squid duty? Do they even have any MA to run it off of? Perhaps Goblins could benefit from having a Self Protect/Regen Spell? As for a Monster Skill, how about their old Goblin Punch from 1.3?
Meh, being a melee specialist is overrated. Magic Hammer can gain some range to see use np.
Zap is more a throwback from FF4's Trickster than anything else, but also gave them a ranged+AoE option -- it's some nice peppering before entering melee. They've got moderate MA -- its nothing special. Think of it as like... Elemental.
QuoteBombs all basic, so I can't say much.
Drench - huge area, but also seems hugely unreliable unless its unevadable. Better than the Chocobo's Monster Skill by far but at the end of the day it's still Faithless Slow 2 that sometimes tosses Oil on for funsies.
Don't put Spark and Self Destruct on the same set unless you make Bombs weak to Fire so the healing is large enough to matter.
Bombs are certainly weak+absorb to fire. Their MS can get a success rate boost, I suppose.
QuoteWhy are you using Death over 2D for Screech exactly?
Everything else is again standardish.
Damage output, mostly -- though 33% does seem low in retrospect. 66%?
QuoteSo Dispel, standard MA damage with lucky proc, Status skill that seems to needlessly require Faith. Mmk.
Transference, why the fuck is that a Monster Skill? Can it hit anything on the map or have a solid range combined with an Effect Area?
Odd soundwave is faith-based because transference is too. Even at max success rate if the caster has 40 faith or bad compat so I figure a bit of reinforcement on the the faith front would be a good thing. As for transference itself, it isn't AoE (multi-target quicking pairs = game broken) nor map-wide but it does have 6 range. It's a monster skill because Quick is awesome and reliable Quick even moreso.
QuoteWhy the fuck does one of the Skeletons have two -Soul moves? Tier 1 and Tier 3 are carbon copies with a slightly different Element.
Horrify - so it's Slow without the Faith factor and I think poorer range? :/
Beckon - So, I need a guy with Monster Skill, land a lucky proc or sport an Oracle, get a worthwhile Enemy under Undead status, get him, the Monster Skiller, and the Skeleton all close together with the Monster Skiller and Skeleton being both adjacent and on roughly the same height... for a 30-35%ish chance to land my skill? I know it's Invite and all and I'll admit it's a cool idea with a ton of flavor, but it is ridiculously impractical and something I would honestly never use unless I was using Monster Skill for something else and had this situation occur by accident.
Natch.
So... - replace one of the souls with a PA-based ability? PA*WP with a 100% chance to blind? - up horrify to 100% with M.Ev - do... something to Beckon. I know I want to keep it as an undead-only move, and preferably offensive. Invite is very rare and powerful, and the fact that this needs either a 1-2 setup from oracle or sheer luck means it can't be used as a ninja-like opener (which is what caused the great Invite nerf of 1.3). 100% Undead-only (AoE) sleep is an option, I suppose.
QuoteGhosts are actually pretty cool. Irreverence and Possess are rather unique and useful.
Dark Wave, however... even if that's smart targeted, that's all the hell of making a Monster Skill setup work to hit what's usually only going to be one enemy, if that, and heal self. Definitely doesn't seem worth it at all. EDIT: I misread it slightly, it can extend for up to two panel range, but it would have to be smart targeted and pretty great at damage considering I have to give up my Support on a human unit and place two units in close range of the enemy.
Yes, ghosts still have teleport.
Bingo on the dark wave. Half of the skill is that it heals the caster ghost to max, but some smart-targetting getting thrown into the mix seems like a good thing for monster skill.
QuoteHypnosis should inflict Sleep over Confusion.
Doom is meh unless Death Sentence expires more quickly and the hit rate is solid. Otherwise the Ahriman just walked in range to get itself killed while giving plenty of time to allow the player to move the inflicted unit somewhere they can easily damage control things.
Why the hell is Gaze Faith based?
Light Whisper... there's nothing wrong with it and it looks like the first Monster Skill I'd actually use out of these, but where the hell did the inspiration come from? Looks entirely out of left field.
Good call on the hypnosis, I'll change that. Death Sentence... expires on a units AT O.o. Hit rate is certainly solid Gaze... I dunno. Back to MA-based, one less random thing to mess with. Light Whisper -- pretty much left field. Dark Whisper looked lonely and these seemed like good candidates.
QuoteSpeed Save? Really?
I love how they get Shine Lover but Chocobos need Monster Skill to just get Haste.
Otherwise fine, though with Tornado you've again stolen your way slightly into my notes...
Speed Save is awesome! Though I suppose their secondary can be beefier to make up for lack of upfront dealings. Maybe hamedo? Choco's got their haste fixed hopefully and past that "good enough" works for me for now.
QuoteJust us the original names for Terrific / Humble. :/ Uribos: Would having their MS be some form of MBarrier be too much?
You are no fun :(
Regarding MBarrier for MS -- too good imo. Maybe just 100% pure reraise? Might be game breaking but we'll see once its in play.
Quote"Very defensive-oriented" - What the fuck are they doing with Counter Flood then?
Otherwise its fine I guess, but they've basically got Choco Guard 2.0 going on right down to the random element.
Does prune require actually having Protect/Shell/Regen on to work, or does it work irregardless?
Well, their skillset is defensive-oriented :p. They're trees and naturey and no other monster has counter flood. Barrier spirit is basically Kiyomori reborn, if nothing else, which is fine given the AoE. 2 AoE protect and shell in a single application is too strong, so eh.
Prune requires regen/protect/shell to work sadly. Like beckoning it requires some setup, but at least here the effect is mapwide. In fact if Barrier Spirit gets changed it'll just be Regen, which I'm tempted to do anyways because losing Protect and Shell can suck.
QuoteBerserk - "on either itself or target"? How did you rig this up?
Rest is yeah.
There's no rigging -- the AI still views berserk as a negative status. It's just that when the player has control of a bull demon it can berserk itself.
QuoteAttack and Drain Tentacle on the same set is redunant and you know it. You may as well give them all Drain Tentacle / Goo / Bad Breath / Bio if this is your plan, they'd be better off. There's no reason to use the tier 1 Morbol, and while Drain Tentacle and Bad Breath together seems alluring, it basically means you only have two skills so the Great Morbol will almost always be the best of the bunch to use in terms of skills because it has range, melee, and Bad Breath all in one set.
It would've been cool for you to define exactly what "Bio" refers to. I know you consolidated all the Bio spells into about 3 Spells total, but it kinda sucks to have to go look that up especially since that still doesn't tell what the range and area are, meaning I can't evaluate whether Monster Skilling with Morbols is worth it.
I... actually didn't think about that but thanks for assuming I'm more thoughtful than I actually am. Drain tentacle as the standard attack does seem like a good twist, and as of right now there are ability slots, so may as well. This of course prompts that morbols need another skill now, which makes me a sad panda. I don't like having all 3 monster ranks with the same skillset because then all morbols would be identical. Perhaps a melee-range ability with the work formula? The backlash damage is negated by the drain attack.
As for Bio, apologies for not listing the ability description -- it's a 4 range 2 AoE ability with smart targetting featuring seperate blind, silence, and oil procs.
QuoteMy only issue with this is that Blaze can very easily nail the Monster Skiller. It's another usable Monster Skill at last regardless though, even if it seems a bit redundant as its Gigaflare 2.0.
True on the redundancy bit. Its too big of an AoE to be smart targetting, but being fire-elemental is does allow for some ally absorb funsies.
QuoteDid you just run out of ideas giving them Shatter/Wall/Reraise? Or is it a skill slot thing? Regardless, toss Reraise for something else, they have fucking Dragon Spirit innate and Red Dragons aren't exactly Supporting units.
It's more that I stole some stuff from FFTA. There's still some skillslots left. Reraise seemed superior to a gather power or dragon-power ability, but considering there's two sources already from generics I suppose it's a touch generic. Maybe oil breath?
QuoteNifty edit to Triple Flame, but it seems a tiny bit undermined because Triple Thunder and Dark Whisper are still counterparts. Dragon Barrier yeah, it's not something I'd go out of my way to equip Monster Skill for most likely, but if I'm running something like a Behemoth that has a huge and worthwhile Monster Skill, I'd be inclined to use a Hydra class even if I wouldn't normally if only for the extra synergy and the fact a Hydra class with all those buffs is tearing a hole in something, so it passes well enough.
D-Barrier? I think you meant D-Whisper. Otherwise, I love it.
I couldn't think about how to separate triple flame, triple thunder, and dark whisper without running into redundancy somewhere without messing them up in the process. mmm... I'll think on it some more.
Augh, another MS I left off the list. DBarrier is a dragon-only M-Barrier.
QuoteNot a bad start, mostly Monster Skills need work and the Morbols got kinda flopped. Your Reactions also didn't seem to be spread out all that much, there was a lot of redundancy going on. Lots of Caution and Awareness, which I guess work as default "secondary" Reactions... but there's also a lot of Counter, 2-3 instances of Critical Quick, etc. Both Dragon families also just have Dragon Spirit and an incredibly common secondary Reaction... eh. Also, animals have no God, remember?
True... needs a little more work all around, but you helped out some so thanks!
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 26, 2010, 10:38:32 pm
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pmAaaand, back. On a sidenote forgive the X's all over the place -- balancing monster and human MA relative to HP scaling is a bitch with the blue mage in play. Fuckin BM's.
Your max human MA is too high. :D
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pmYes, the weaknesses are still around. Most of the monsters that are weak to something also have an absorb, and many of the absorbers are doubly weak for healing funsies. I'll update the OP with changes from this post and ele and immunities stuff shortly.
I don't feel the elemental weaknesses, but the latter is another thing right out of my book. >.>
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pm3 range is the standard range for "range" -- it keeps them out of melee so they're less likely to be swarmed. They have rather absurd move so I'm leery to give them 4. Understood on the guard/haste then... may as well go two birds one stone? Hee... birds.
Choco haste - self AoE 1 with 1 or 0 vert tol at ~85% or 100% success rate Choco Guard - self AoE 1 with 2 vert tol - Protect and Shell to self+allies
3 Range, the opponent can usually saunter down and bop you in the head. Unless "out of melee range" = "not triggering counter and dodging 2 base units."
Chocobos look better though, but I'd give Choco Guard the 2 Effect Area since it actually has a vaguely hard trigger to meet compared to Kiyomori and co.
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pm- replace one of the souls with a PA-based ability? PA*WP with a 100% chance to blind? - up horrify to 100% with M.Ev - do... something to Beckon. I know I want to keep it as an undead-only move, and preferably offensive. Invite is very rare and powerful, and the fact that this needs either a 1-2 setup from oracle or sheer luck means it can't be used as a ninja-like opener (which is what caused the great Invite nerf of 1.3). 100% Undead-only (AoE) sleep is an option, I suppose.
Necrotic Touch is already a PA based hit. Whoever got it and the Ice Soul replacement would have no magic or range. You used a very Vanilla-like distribution though so it's hard to get something that works and isn't redundant on the guy who ends up with both it and Aqua Soul. Horrify to max percent works I suppose... it's still Faithless Slow with less Vert, but the hit rate disparity can be large enough to justify. Otherwise you could just give Skeletons Slow or Slow 2 in the vein of your Dragons and save an ability slot.
The last bit is why I'd just remove Invite and make people use Train to get their monsters. Headaches, many are saved. Sizable Range Sleep with Area for a Monster Skill works. The Undead requirement still makes it a bit hard to use but if the situation comes up where it can trigger it has a far higher chance of actually being relevant.
I mean the count for Death Sentence being lower than 3. Otherwise Ahriman walks into Melee range, casts Doom, maybe hits, dies, player has time to get the Doomed unit somewhere they can heal it. Also AI dipshittery. If Death Sentence has a lower count, this isn't so bad, I forget if you modded it for ASM'd.
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pmSpeed Save is awesome! Though I suppose their secondary can be beefier to make up for lack of upfront dealings. Maybe hamedo? Choco's got their haste fixed hopefully and past that "good enough" works for me for now.
Speed Save = Throw Stone or Dagger hurling + Shine Lover > QUAD TURN EVERYTHING LOLOLOL.
I guess it's not as bad on a Juravis than it is on a human but still, one of ASM'd's main themes is lower Speeds, and Juravis already get top Speed to start with and 100% Self-Haste, so it only takes a few triggerings for things to begin getting very dumb.
It would need to be rather powerful to justify use over Drain Tentacle, but I suppose.
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pmAs for Bio, apologies for not listing the ability description -- it's a 4 range 2 AoE ability with smart targetting featuring seperate blind, silence, and oil procs.
And does damage I assume?
Quote from: philsov on December 26, 2010, 09:33:44 pmIt's more that I stole some stuff from FFTA. There's still some skillslots left. Reraise seemed superior to a gather power or dragon-power ability, but considering there's two sources already from generics I suppose it's a touch generic. Maybe oil breath?
Give it a generic negative status based skill to keep things consistent. One cancels positive, one adds positive, one adds negative.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on December 28, 2010, 07:03:28 pm
(I'll fix any typos later given how long it took to go through everything what I still have to do.)
Glad to see this is picking back up, though I suppose I'm one to talk considering I haven't worked on anything in 8 months.
(Speaking of which, you still have my equipment list, RavenofRazgriz. I would kindly ask you to delete/destroy that if you've not the time to comment on it. Good to see you around again, regardless, though.)
As much as I like multi-quoting things into oblivion, given that this new forum still kind of gives me a headache just looking at, I'm just going to use a list:
Consolidation of Tiers: Certainly different than I what I was trying to do, but I still think it's a better solution than the current (read: 1.3) solution...depending on how things work out with ability distribution.
Counter List: I find it rather funny how little of these you actually use between the monsters. Personally, I think that Caution kind of sucks for monsters unless something huge has changed in the past 8 months. I mean, yeah, some of those Reactions suck (lol, Gilgame Heart), but you could certainly be more varied as Raven pointed out. Also, isn't Awareness a reaction-less Reaction in the same vain as Abandon, Finger Guard and Projectile Guard?
Regarding Stats: May we know these breakpoints? Kind of difficult to judge without these, but then again, given how rusty I am, I suppose you telling me would mean very little at this point.
Chocobos: Find it weird that this is only monster to have its elemental attributes posted despite being completely neutral to everything. Not much to say about that given Raven's suggestions. I'm curious whether Black Chocobos still have Fly given your consolidation of tiers.
Goblins: Yeah, I think that Magic Hammer probably needs to have a bit of distance. Even with the explanation, Zap seems a bit random--I keep picturing C. Viper's Thunder Knuckles. Heh. Maybe you could give Goblins Burning Kicks or Seismic Hammers then. Maybe Burst Time Monster Skill? Then again, I suppose Bull Demons already have that technically.
Bombs: Kind of boring, but expected. I actually kind of like the Monster Skill, but yeah, it needs to not able to be evaded to not be underwhelming.
Panthers: Despite not getting rid of it (I forget what I did), I've never really liked Blaster or, at least, the fact that it just randomly Petrifies, even if it has FF history. Other than that, kind of meh. I think I had trouble thinking of a monster skill for them as well (or at least the non-Vampire cats). Pretty meh, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Squids: Similarly, I really hate Counter Flood on monsters or, at least, monsters with 1.3 MA. If you're normalizing MA, I guess it's fine then. It's going to take some use to Negation doing what Odd Soundwave used to do and Odd Soundwave doing what Mind Blast used to do, even if what Mind Blast does not makes sense (and is less all-or-nothing); I don't like Odd Soundwave being Faith-based, though. That said, I have to agree with Quick being...underwhelming. I know how much you like Quick--a lot--and all, but it just seems like it's going to be completely underwhelming or rather broken (since I'm guessing the ability is instant). It's rather difficult to balance Quick the less CT it has. I'm sure we all remember Smile's stupidity from FFTA, though due to needing Monster Skill, I guess it wouldn't be as bad (probably). Additionally, it just seems rather weird for the Squids to not have any Water-based abilities, but that's not really a huge thing.
Skeletons: Ha, Leslie Nielson reference. ...Damn, I miss that guy already. Anyway, yeah, I have to agree two Soul abilities, Horrify with anything less than 100% (if its M.EV) and rather-iffy Beckon after all the set-up is quite disappointing. Similarly, I have to agree with Raven that it's better to just get rid of all instances of Invite and only leave Train. Then again, I've always hated Invite, so that's not really a big surprise. I'd say get rid of Aqua Soul, up the damage on Ice Soul a bit, up Horrify to 100% w/ M.EV, some other decay-inducing/Blindness-inducing attack that has more range than Necrotic Touch and do...something else with Beckon. I'm guessing the only "Undead-only"-affecting formula that we have access to is still the one that uses SP+X% and only add status, right? Not really sure what to do with that....
Ghouls: Ha at us both having a Possession move. Anyway, I find it rather weird that Drain Touch drains MP. I mean, I understand why it's there (I guess), but given that Ghouls do nothing with the MP they have (monsters don't use MP [directly] and Ghouls don't have MP Switch) and have no particular magic inclination, whether being "weak" to it like 1.3. Blade Grasp ones or strong against it, it just seems...off. Not much else to say besides that.
Flotiball: Hmm...interesting. You also did a light-based, Faith-based approach to Ahrimans, so I kind of like Light Whisper, though at present it just feels like a wholesale rip off of Dark Whisper with the randomness, even without Sleep; I'm all for symmetrical opposites, but it seems it could be made more opposing. Speaking of Sleep, I find it weird that Hypnosis doesn't have a chance to proc it. Doom seems like it could do with a bit more range, especially with Condemn as the primary counter unless, of course, you lowered the count for Death Sentence or something. With that said, even having also done a Faith-based approach to Ahirman, Gaze seems really underwhelming, especially with charge time. Either make it Faith-based or make it generally more damn with charge time, but not both please.
Cockatrices: Ugh. Speed Save with that much mobility and damage-range seems like it's asking for trouble/even more annoyance. Otherwise, this is the first class I rather like, even if it's a lot of it is straight from 1.3. Always nice to see more Wind attacks.
Uribos: Hunh. Babe references. ...Not really much else to say since I always thought Uribos were a waste of space. If only they're was a way to easily replace them or something.... Anyway, since they're annoying little support buggers, I think if you want to go the Reraise route, maybe make it 100% self Reraise and go from there. Nothing really interested in them enough to try to think of something, to be honest.
Woodfolk: Very nice, even if I kind of have to agree with them having Counter Flood primarily being odd for something so defensive. Then again, giving your version Regenerator is kind of redundant, so.... Other than that, this is my favorite monster so far, but I've always kind of liked them despite them generally getting screwed over.
Bull Demons: Holy? ...Why does a Demon have Holy? I could maybe buy the Sacred getting it as a play on the name, but...really? It just seems so incongruous with everything else they have, especially since you point to them being able to Berserk themselves as a good thing. They lose their fire attack for Holy and their Monster Skill is just Earth Slash 2.0? I can't say I like that at all.
Marlboros: Agree with Raven about Drain Tentacle making Attack redundant. As for making Marlboros different, yeah, I had a problem with that too IIRC since I didn't want to use Moldball Virus. You could probably try doing something with Lick and going from there. Also, Counter on Marlboros is extremely boring. At least make it Hamedo given all those tentacles and eyes.
Behemoths: I can't say that I like Critical Quick on them, especially since they have still have a "Karma" attack, except unlike Bombs they don't die from it. Still, Lifebreak is less obnoxious than Ulmaguest from what I remember of it. If Blaze is indeed Fire-elemental (which it doesn't say), then I guess it's fine as it is.
Dragons:FFTA blows for a reason. I shouldn't really be one to talk given how many human and monster skills I overlapped to save/generate space, but yeah, at least get rid of Reraise on Red Dragons. I can't really say much more since I went a completely different direction than consolidation, so we're basically taking exact opposite approaches when it comes to Dragons. Oil Breath seems...weird.
Hydras: Haven't really changed, so there's nothing to comment on. D-Barrier--lol, Douchebag-Barrier is the first thing that came to mind even knowing what you meant--being Dragon-only MBarrier is also par for the course.
Out of curiosity, since I might try to start my project back up, I have to ask if you made use of a generic monster attack that worked or if you just named things like Tentacle and Scratch Up "Attack" since there's no real difference between them. I'm asking because I remember trying to consolidate attacks for all the classes you could do it for, only for it to look like monsters (specifically Panthers) were trying to spaz-out and hump the enemy to death--I used Ahriman's Wing Attack.
Regardless, as said above, it's good to see more work being done on this.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 28, 2010, 09:16:58 pm
Quote from: The Damned on December 28, 2010, 07:03:28 pm (Speaking of which, you still have my equipment list, RavenofRazgriz. I would kindly ask you to delete/destroy that if you've not the time to comment on it. Good to see you around again, regardless, though.)
I have it, and have a bit of time despite having probably 3-4 projects to comment/work on and life to deal with, so if it's not grossly out of date I can still comment if you like. Life got in the way not long after you sent it to me, which is why my FFH activity basically bombed not long after.
LISTS ARE FOR THE WEAK. (Yes I'm purposefully multiquoting you now.)
Quote from: The Damned on December 28, 2010, 07:03:28 pmOut of curiosity, since I might try to start my project back up, I have to ask if you made use of a generic monster attack that worked or if you just named things like Tentacle and Scratch Up "Attack" since there's no real difference between them. I'm asking because I remember trying to consolidate attacks for all the classes you could do it for, only for it to look like monsters (specifically Panthers) were trying to spaz-out and hump the enemy to death--I used Ahriman's Wing Attack.
Use Choco Attack and swap the sound effect. It should work.
(Yeah I ran out of stuff to multiquote. Damn.)
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on December 28, 2010, 10:52:49 pm
Ah, I'll keep that in mind.
Also, I had figured as much about your situation, which is why I didn't flood your PM box or anything. Like I said, it's good to see that you're back.
(And, yes, lists are for the weak. I am ashamed.)
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Eternal on December 28, 2010, 11:17:43 pm
In FFV, Holy is obtained in the Fork Tower after beating Minotaur, who is Sekhret (Sacred)'s brother. Minotaur attempts to cast Holy, but doesn't have enough MP. I think that's what Phil is referencing.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 29, 2010, 04:50:39 am
If you want that Item list looked over still, I can do it after I finish a rather important project I'm working on that I'm half procrastinating on due to the mind-numbing redundancy involved in it.
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 28, 2010, 11:17:43 pm In FFV, Holy is obtained in the Fork Tower after beating Minotaur, who is Sekhret (Sacred)'s brother. Minotaur attempts to cast Holy, but doesn't have enough MP. I think that's what Phil is referencing.
GO OUTSIDE.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pm
Woo quote sniping!
QuoteYour max human MA is too high. Happy
No, my HP is too high :P It's falling into the same category of most damage magic -- insanely good early on, good midgame, but falling short at endgame. Buuut I think I've got it now, so...
Quote3 Range, the opponent can usually saunter down and bop you in the head. Unless "out of melee range" = "not triggering counter and dodging 2 base units."
Chocobos look better though, but I'd give Choco Guard the 2 Effect Area since it actually has a vaguely hard trigger to meet compared to Kiyomori and co.
Out of melee range = less likely to be attacked by multiple units when their turn comes up >_>.
Agreed on Choco Guard, 2 AoE it is.
QuoteNecrotic Touch is already a PA based hit. Whoever got it and the Ice Soul replacement would have no magic or range. ...
The last bit is why I'd just remove Invite and make people use Train to get their monsters. Headaches, many are saved. Sizable Range Sleep with Area for a Monster Skill works. The Undead requirement still makes it a bit hard to use but if the situation comes up where it can trigger it has a far higher chance of actually being relevant.
I'll boost up the range on horrify, introduce a ranged blind effect with AoE and turn their MS in a wide-area sleep?
QuoteI mean the count for Death Sentence being lower than 3. Otherwise Ahriman walks into Melee range, casts Doom, maybe hits, dies, player has time to get the Doomed unit somewhere they can heal it. Also AI dipshittery. If Death Sentence has a lower count, this isn't so bad, I forget if you modded it for ASM'd.
Not modded, but I don't think I'd change it if I could. DS kills people at 1, so DS currently gives people two actions before they 100% die.
QuoteSpeed Save = Throw Stone or Dagger hurling + Shine Lover > QUAD TURN EVERYTHING LOLOLOL.
True. Hmz
QuoteWell huh. Something else has counter flood.
*Primary!
QuoteThen your description is misleading because it sounded like Berserk randomly hits the caster and/or the target.
I'll fix the desc then
QuoteAnd morlboro bio does damage I assume?
Heh. Yes.
QuoteGive it a generic negative status based skill to keep things consistent. One cancels positive, one adds positive, one adds negative.
That'd work, I suppose.
QuoteCounter List: I find it rather funny how little of these you actually use between the monsters. Personally, I think that Caution kind of sucks for monsters unless something huge has changed in the past 8 months. I mean, yeah, some of those Reactions suck (lol, Gilgame Heart), but you could certainly be more varied as Raven pointed out. Also, isn't Awareness a reaction-less Reaction in the same vain as Abandon, Finger Guard and Projectile Guard?
Eh, caution synergizes with global class evade and reduces further physical damage by 25, and it triggers against any kind of damage from any range. It's rather weak but its a catch-all so it's something I consider prime for secondary. And, yes, Awareness is a passive reaction, so it might be worthwhile to have as a third innate instead of a true reaction, but some monsters have other properties like cannot enter water and float/fly/teleport/ignore height. Meh, cannot enter water is overrated.
QuoteRegarding Stats: May we know these breakpoints? Kind of difficult to judge without these, but then again, given how rusty I am, I suppose you telling me would mean very little at this point.
All monster growth is identical -- 5 HP, 25 PA, 25 MA, and 170 Sp -- this is of course accelerated over the humans who max out at 7 / 40 / 40 / 190, but it's not like monsters can get two swords or def up or magic attack up so it's rather even. Multipliers range from 100 to 180 for HP, 100 to 140 for MA, and 100 to 135 for speed. I am, however, taking my own advice and diversifying stats some so they aren't completely identical, but there's still going to be a rough hierarchical system.
QuoteFind it weird that this is only monster to have its elemental attributes posted despite being completely neutral to everything. Not much to say about that given Raven's suggestions. I'm curious whether Black Chocobos still have Fly given your consolidation of tiers.
I started updating then I got distracted by something shiny. And, no, black (and yellow) chocos both got ignore height.
QuoteGoblins: Yeah, I think that Magic Hammer probably needs to have a bit of distance. Even with the explanation, Zap seems a bit random--I keep picturing C. Viper's Thunder Knuckles. Heh. Maybe you could give Goblins Burning Kicks or Seismic Hammers then. Maybe Burst Time Monster Skill? Then again, I suppose Bull Demons already have that technically.
*googles to find out what you're referring to*
Ah. Heh. Yes, magic hammer will be gaining some range. Zap is... something generic and rangey/AoE to pepper people, really. It's not a major attack but something to do when making the approach. Burst Time would be AWESOME but I don't know if I can rig up animations for it. Setup might be a pain, but oh noes tactics in a tactical game.
QuoteI think I had trouble thinking of a monster skill for them as well (or at least the non-Vampire cats). Pretty meh, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
True. I'll probably bring back blood suck or have some permutation of an HP drain attack.
QuoteAdditionally, it just seems rather weird for the Squids to not have any Water-based abilities, but that's not really a huge thing.
They may gain a water-based primary attack, but that'll be one of the last things to do once I square out exactly how many ability slots are left over -- currently there's 15 including all the post-parasite slots so it may come to fruition.
QuoteGhouls don't have MP Switch
Hmmmmm :)
QuoteEither make it Faith-based or make it generally more damn with charge time, but not both please.
Done and done.
QuoteBabe references
Close. So close.
QuoteI think if you want to go the Reraise route, maybe make it 100% self Reraise and go from there
Mmmm... I think if I go the self-only route there needs to be more than just reraise in play. Maybe shell?
QuoteWhy does a Demon have Holy?
What eternal said >_>
QuoteThey lose their fire attack for Holy and their Monster Skill is just Earth Slash 2.0?
Hm. Make their MS a super Blow Fire? Still.... earth slash 2.0 but it's fire elemental!
QuoteI can't say that I like Critical Quick on them, especially since they have still have a "Karma" attack,
~changing
QuoteOil Breath seems...weird.
Maybe a Don't Move or Don't Act effect? Leaning more towards DA.
QuoteI have to ask if you made use of a generic monster attack that worked or if you just named things like Tentacle and Scratch Up "Attack" since there's no real difference between them. I'm asking because I remember trying to consolidate attacks for all the classes you could do it for, only for it to look like monsters (specifically Panthers) were trying to spaz-out and hump the enemy to death--I used Ahriman's Wing Attack.
I haven't done animations and effects (it's at the bottom of the to-do list) but from earlier testing it's fine so long as the animation is something basic like 0A 00 00. I don't think effect should make a difference but I'll defer to Raven on that point.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on December 29, 2010, 05:09:10 pm
updated OP with changes so far, numbered the X's and Y's, got rid of some of the counter/caution, and update for ele qualities.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on December 29, 2010, 07:50:51 pm
I just realized there's not even a multi-quote button. Joy.
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 28, 2010, 11:17:43 pm In FFV, Holy is obtained in the Fork Tower after beating Minotaur, who is Sekhret (Sacred)'s brother. Minotaur attempts to cast Holy, but doesn't have enough MP. I think that's what Phil is referencing.
...Thanks for reminding I never finished FFV despite liking it.
If you want that Item list looked over still, I can do it after I finish a rather important project I'm working on that I'm half procrastinating on due to the mind-numbing redundancy involved in it.
Eh, only if you've the time.
I was looking at the Equipment list (and my Lucavi list; dear Lord did I buff the hell out of them and monsters) last night and I was embarrassed to notice all the typos it has and all the things that still need to be tested after six months of not working on it at all.
Quote from: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pm Eh, caution synergizes with global class evade and reduces further physical damage by 25, and it triggers against any kind of damage from any range. It's rather weak but its a catch-all so it's something I consider prime for secondary. And, yes, Awareness is a passive reaction, so it might be worthwhile to have as a third innate instead of a true reaction, but some monsters have other properties like cannot enter water and float/fly/teleport/ignore height. Meh, cannot enter water is overrated.
Yeah, Cannot Enter Water is kind of a waste of space. I think I got rid of it on everything or at least almost everything; seriously, Bombs having Cannot Enter Water when they have automatic Float? Waste of space.
For the record, I wasn't saying that Caution was bad, just that it's below average on monsters (even with the change to the Defend status) due to them not having M.EV. Also, that you were using it on most of the monsters.
Quote from: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pm All monster growth is identical -- 5 HP, 25 PA, 25 MA, and 170 Sp -- this is of course accelerated over the humans who max out at 7 / 40 / 40 / 190, but it's not like monsters can get two swords or def up or magic attack up so it's rather even. Multipliers range from 100 to 180 for HP, 100 to 140 for MA, and 100 to 135 for speed. I am, however, taking my own advice and diversifying stats some so they aren't completely identical, but there's still going to be a rough hierarchical system.
...I'll take your word for it. Even when I was actually working on my patch, I was more focused on making equipment, abilities and classes viable before I even touched stats and since I never finished the former....
Hmm...can't say I really like this, but it's your game and it's not a huge problem. Do Red Chocobos have something different movement-wise then? Or did you just forget to mention them?
Ah. Heh. Yes, magic hammer will be gaining some range. Zap is... something generic and rangey/AoE to pepper people, really. It's not a major attack but something to do when making the approach. Burst Time would be AWESOME but I don't know if I can rig up animations for it. Setup might be a pain, but oh noes tactics in a tactical game.
Burst Time seriously is probably already best captured by Mimic Titan. Besides, you're not really missing much since she takes forever to land after it and for some reason does the whole animation even when it misses or gets blocked.
...Anyway, I actually think that 1.3 Goblins were great outside of the whole "distant Goblin Punch" thing. Not sure if you could maybe draw from that even though they were essentially just monster Monks.
Quote from: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pm They may gain a water-based primary attack, but that'll be one of the last things to do once I square out exactly how many ability slots are left over -- currently there's 15 including all the post-parasite slots so it may come to fruition.
Shell seems like it'd good be given the aforementioned lack of M.EV and covering more things than Reflect. I guess you could potentially go with Protect as well, but I'd probably avoid both.
Yeah, Don't Act seems like it would be fine. I think I made one Fire attack inflict Don't Act, but I can't remember what it was if I even did off the top of my head.
As for Oil Breath, I saying that more because it seems...phlegm-y (ew) and Bomb-worthy rather than outright bad.
Quote from: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pm I haven't done animations and effects (it's at the bottom of the to-do list) but from earlier testing it's fine so long as the animation is something basic like 0A 00 00. I don't think effect should make a difference but I'll defer to Raven on that point.
Oh, okay. I'll keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 29, 2010, 08:34:41 pm
Quote from: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pmNo, my HP is too high :P It's falling into the same category of most damage magic -- insanely good early on, good midgame, but falling short at endgame. Buuut I think I've got it now, so...
Well huh. Never hit that problem, but I use a very strange scaling that requires Broad Sword to have 6 WP and Rune Blade to have 12 WP, so... yeah.
Quote from: philsov on December 29, 2010, 02:12:21 pmThey may gain a water-based primary attack, but that'll be one of the last things to do once I square out exactly how many ability slots are left over -- currently there's 15 including all the post-parasite slots so it may come to fruition.
You would cry if you knew how many slots I dedicated to monsters, I think.
First Cancels Protect/Shell. Second Adds Protect/Shell. Third should inflict a status or statii that boosts damage output or reduces the opponent's damage out. I want to say to be an outright douche and go for Sleep + Faith, though I guess Don't Act or Stop (prefer Stop because it gives monsters more ways to manipulate CT) works too.
I was looking at the Equipment list (and my Lucavi list; dear Lord did I buff the hell out of them and monsters) last night and I was embarrassed to notice all the typos it has and all the things that still need to be tested after six months of not working on it at all.
Heh, typos happen. It's no worry, it just may not be right away still unless you end up super needing it since I have at least one other commitment that needs to come first.
Quote from: The Damned on December 29, 2010, 07:50:51 pm...I'll take your word for it. Even when I was actually working on my patch, I was more focused on making equipment, abilities and classes viable before I even touched stats and since I never finished the former....
Do the stats before all that stuff, trust me, Mr. Working Backwards. :p
Quote from: The Damned on December 29, 2010, 07:50:51 pm...Anyway, I actually think that 1.3 Goblins were great outside of the whole "distant Goblin Punch" thing. Not sure if you could maybe draw from that even though they were essentially just monster Monks.
Their design could easily be improved on if he wanted to source 1.3 monsters. Outside of some more recent 1.3035 changes that look like they took a few things I said to Arch to heart before he left, many of the monsters are great but far too unfocused, Goblins included.
If only Phil weren't already using Counter Tackle's slot for something...
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on December 29, 2010, 08:50:21 pm
(@philsov: I looked at all the monsters I think I generally like all the changes EXCEPT MP Switch on Panthers. ...Why?)
Yeah, I use the faux-Quick Reply thing above. Still weird to not have a formal button on most forums I go besides my main one.
Anyway, no, it's not a big deal. Like I said, I haven't worked on it in months, even if this has rekindled my interest. So take your time with it. Just try to get around it some time before next year ends, please. :p
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on December 30, 2010, 11:13:34 am
QuoteDo Red Chocobos have something different movement-wise then? Or did you just forget to mention them?
They still have ignore height -- it's just a default on them.
QuoteI want to say to be an outright douche and go for Sleep + Faith, though I guess Don't Act or Stop (prefer Stop because it gives monsters more ways to manipulate CT) works too.
Stop works better. Need more sources for that one.
QuoteIf only Phil weren't already using Counter Tackle's slot for something...
And its glorious.
As for Bull Demon/monster skills -- here's the current breakdown:
Ally/Self Buff - 5 1-range ST - 2 Range MT debuff - 2 Range MT damage - 5 Range ST damage - 1
Looks like I can use another ranged, single target ability? Doesn't really fit into the bull demon scheme but I might be able to inject enough flavor that it'll work.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on December 30, 2010, 07:33:56 pm
It took me a bit to figure out what you meant by ST and MT.
Anyway, it seems like you could just make Goblin's monster skill a ranged, single target one since you haven't done that one yet. You could also do what Eternal (technically), Raven and I suggested and make give Bull Demon some Holy-based monster skill as a--hmm...the word evades me at the moment--reference to past Final Fantasies. Of course, this means that Bull Demon would likely have to lose Holy for something else, but that's not really a huge loss.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 15, 2011, 04:21:27 pm
OK, did some testing with monsters and humanoid skillsets:
- They do auto-learn everything in the skillset (even non-custom skillsets, like generic Summon Magic), regardless of if "learn on JP" is flagged or unflagged -- which is great for blue mage functionality and general utility - They do use MP, which is possibly a good thing - They gain default job functions -- the ability to change classes, equip items, set secondary/R/S/M. + If they change classes, their sprite glitches out, and they cannot change back to a monster. However, they still cannot gain JP and are stuck with default job level 0, so so long as all other starter jobs require level 1 squire instead of level 0, they cannot change jobs or gain access to other jobs for a secondary skillset + equipping items does nothing. Enabling them to equip armor doesn't even budge their health pool, and in-battle they have no equipment. But it's back to equipped post battle + They auto-equip their (primary) reaction when the battle starts, and if you remove it in the ability menu it thankfully comes right back - They cannot breed.
In short, lose the ability to breed, and in exchange they gain the ability to have up to 16-ability skillsets and no need for the monster skill ability. Coupled with the ARH, which thankfully has 48 spare slots (I'm only using 6 or 7 atm), each monster will have a unique ability and then several family skills. However, because their "monster skills" are really no longer thus, many of these abilities will be seeing nerfs to keep them in line as baseline abilities. All in all, a welcome change to monsters but it undoes a small portion of what's been done thus far.
(The generic skillset fix isn't even needed) XD
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 15, 2011, 06:02:07 pm
Hunh. Weird. Well I suppose it's good thing since I was considering doing that as well (if I end up having room, that is).
Actually, the only thing that's really given me pause about doing this (for all monsters; I was going to do it for Squidlarkin and maybe Boco regardless) is being unsure how it affects things like Poaching and Train and Dragoner skills (for the few monsters) those work on. (I couldn't really care less about Monster Skill, even if it means losing yet another RSM.)
Out of curiosity, what slots would you being using?
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 15, 2011, 07:07:22 pm
Hm.
Poach still works Monster Talk is still necessary Dragon Stuff works fine Train works fine
Full speed forward, then.
I'm planning on using blank slots in that glut between Holy Magic and Fear, but seriously anything works.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 15, 2011, 08:09:51 pm
That's good to know.
So...I just realized, I guess this means that you'll be using those spare ability slots you had on monsters then?
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on January 15, 2011, 09:48:01 pm
You're welcome, Phil. ^_^
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 15, 2011, 09:59:04 pm
QuoteI guess this means that you'll be using those spare ability slots you had on monsters then?
As I'm at a loss for the new class and I haven't heard anything good from the peanut gallery, yes.
Hell, I might be able to squeeze everything in together... throw a few more human abilities into the monster mix and there should be enough for all monsters to have attack + 3 family abilities + 1 unique ability and an 8-10 ability class if I'm doing the math right.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 15, 2011, 10:20:00 pm
Well, I did have some ideas with regards to that, but I didn't want to double post and you didn't respond, so....
Other than that, I suppose I support this. I'll have to see what you come up with, though.
What are you going to do encourage females to use PA classes and males to use MA classes, though? Nothing? It's not a huge deal, but it's still something that happens.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on January 15, 2011, 10:25:22 pm
The Damned - the easiest solution is to use ARH to give every class a unique skill that's locked by gender, but that leads to the people who have star-over-class-OCD being forced to buy a useless skill to get it.
That, or just balance your classes so that females in a physical class with magic secondaries or the inverse are at least acceptably worthwhile. Otherwise it's an arbitrary "do things backwards to get a class then never do it again" thing which doesn't really have enough of a reason to exist to care.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 15, 2011, 10:53:17 pm
QuoteWell, I did have some ideas with regards to that
O.o. Go for it dude.
QuoteWhat are you going to do encourage females to use PA classes and males to use MA classes, though? Nothing? It's not a huge deal, but it's still something that happens.
Nothing.
I lack the ability space (and imagination, in some cases) to introduce a gender-specific ability to all non-hybrid classes and presenting the choice of "optimal stats with incomplete skillset" or "suboptimal stats but look what I can dooooo". Besides, under the current job scheme in order to unlock Dancer (e.g.), one needs levels as a Knight, Archer, Wizard, Geomancer, and Lancer -- there's no need to traverse the 7 different physical jobs like in Vanilla, but instead 4 of them (3.5 depending on how you count geomancer and the new elemental)
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 15, 2011, 11:14:31 pm
Give me a couple of hours. I'm in the middle of watching something as well as trying to think of a couple other things creatively, so....
Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on January 15, 2011, 10:25:22 pm The Damned - the easiest solution is to use ARH to give every class a unique skill that's locked by gender, but that leads to the people who have star-over-class-OCD being forced to buy a useless skill to get it.
Ah, I wasn't aware of the ARH being used for gender (which doesn't really make sense in most cases anyway). What's "star-over-class" OCD? You mean people who want to master everything I'm guessing.
QuoteThat, or just balance your classes so that females in a physical class with magic secondaries or the inverse are at least acceptably worthwhile. Otherwise it's an arbitrary "do things backwards to get a class then never do it again" thing which doesn't really have enough of a reason to exist to care.
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 19, 2011, 11:03:28 pm
OP updated with the major facelift to monsters thanks to being granted expanded skillsets. One will notice many human abilities scattered about to save room, while many of the "monster skills" reduced in power/effectiveness/something as a result of being a baseline ability. For example Chocos now have Choco Protect and Choco Shell, instead of the Choco Guard ability which did both of these simultaneously.
My chief concern is that one species isn't completely worthless relative to the other two, or that one species is so damned awesome that who in their right mind would ever choose to use a variant!?! There is some light redundancy (Aqua Soul is Aero is Eruption with slightly different damage output and element) but all in all I think the spread is pretty good, though I'm biased. Perhaps one of the general abilities can be a species-specific and vice versa if that would fix a family or two?
Offhand I know Bombs could use some work (their species-specific abilities aren't too different, its all fire in different fashions)
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on January 20, 2011, 04:44:47 am
Abandon PA Save Auto Potion Auto Protect Damage Split Gilgame Heart MA Save Regenerator Speed Save Blade Grasp Brave Up Counter Condemn Dragon Spirit Auto Shell Critical Quick HP Restore Meatbone Slash MP Restore Absorb Used MP Projectile Guard Catch Counter Flood Counter Magic Distribute Faith Up Finger Guard Hamedo MP Switch Awareness
The changes in this remind me that I've yet to comment in that other thread. I suppose I should do that.
Quote from: philsov on December 21, 2010, 01:22:31 pmChocobo: speedy and mobile, but with low HP and minor evade. Notably have choco meteor as their primary attack function -- it's weaker than other iterations but it gives them a bit of defense by proxy. Primary support units, with almost all their moves being Self + 1 AoE in nature.
HP: med C.Ev: low PA: low MA: med Sp: high M/J: 4/4 Elements: Neutral to all
Choco Meteor - 3 range MA*9 damage, unevadeable. Choco Esuna - Self + AoE1 status cleansing, doing a majority of nasty status Choco Cure - Self + AoE1 HP curing Choco Protect - Self + AoE1 Protect effect Choco Haste - Self + AoE1 Haste effect Choco Shell - Self + AoE1 Shell effect
I personally think that Choco Haste should be on all Chocobos and that Choco Esuna should go be the third differing skill. Otherwise it just seems like everyone's going to use the Red Chocobo because we all know how overpowering Haste is.
Also, I can't really say that I like that Chocobo's get Auto Protect now. It seems really...odd, especially not all of them even have Choco Protect.
Sleeper Hold - 1 range attack with high success rate to Sleep the target Goblin Punch - 1 range attack, dealing damage in the difference in their HP. 50+PA% success rate. Spin Fist - Monk version Magic Hammer - 3 range attack, deals 50% MP damage. 70+PA% chance to work, P.Ev-able Zap - 3 range 1 AoE attack dealing MA*10 lightning damage, with a possible Stop proc Mutilate - 1 range 75% HP Attack with moderate success rate
I like the idea of Sleeper Hold. Too bad we can't make it only activate from behind or something. Outside of that, as always I'm iffy about Goblin Punch, but eh, at least it's close-range only unlike 1.3. Looks like you just went with Mutilate, which I guess is fair enough. Not much else to say, especially since in this case I feel the counters are appropriate.
Eruption - 3 range single target fire attack, dealing MA*12 damage Self Destruct - deals HP difference in self AoE 2, inflicting oil in the process Drench - 3 range 1 AoE with smart targetting - inflicts Oil or Don't Act at about 65+MA% success rate each Spark - Self AoE 2 fire damage, healing self and hurting everything around it Immolate - 5 range linear fire damage Small Bomb - 3 range 1 AOE dealing fire damage
Bombs seem completely fine. That they're all Fire-based abilities is pretty inevitable, even if it makes them rather easy to block. You'll just have to make sure they're always grouped with things that can get around Fire-resistance and/or absorptions, though that's obvious.
I suppose you could somewhat remedy that inability to do non-Fire-based damage by giving them Counter instead of MA Save, but I don't think that's really worth it.
Poison Nail - 4 range single target - inflicts poison at 100%. Unevadeable Screech - 2 range single target -- cancels Charging on a unit, dealing 51% HP damage to it in the process. Max success rate (faith based) Execute - Archer version - cancels critical on a unit, dealing 21% HP damage. Cat Kick - ???? Blaster - 3 range single target - Randomly inflicts Stop, Petrify, or Don't Move onto the target. 50+MA% success rate Blood Suck - 1 range single target - drains 25% HP
I still don't get why they have Speed Save and I still don't understand the point of Execute. However, given how distracted I've been all morning/night--finally got around to seeing Moon by chance--and such, I haven't exactly thought of replacement Archer skills just yet.
Anyway, besides those things, Panthers look fine I suppose, though Screech might actually end up being a bit overboard between its damage, canceling Charging and their (potential) speed.
At present, Panthers actually don't inflict all that much status as you seem like you want them to do.
General: Odd Soundwave / Negation / Aqua Breath Tier 1: Transference Tier 2: Rub Tier 3: Mind Blast
Odd Soundwave - 3 range single target 65+MA% that inflicts either confusion or berserk Negation - 3 range 1 AoE ability that dispels beneficial effects from enemies Aqua Breath - 1 range 1 AoE MA-based damage. Water ele, useful for self healing. Mind Blast - 3 range single target dealing MA*13 non-elemental damage with a Stop proc Rub - 4 range single target inflicting Dead with moderate success rate Transference - 3 range single target Quick effect. Slightly higher success rate than TM Quick, but still faith-based.
Still trying to get used to the effect-shuffling with the old names here, even though they still work.
I lol'd at you working in Rub, even though I tend not to like "this may just kill you" techniques. (Fucking Crush Punch.) Not really much to say besides that.
Oh, wait. Now that I think about it, given it's description, does Aqua Breath automatically target the self like Spark? Or are you just noting that two Squidlarkin or whatever can heal each other with it? It seems like the former, but it's not entirely cleatr.
General: Necrotic Touch / Aqua Soul* / Death Tier 1: Horrify Tier 2: Blackout Tier 3: Liturgy
Necrotic Touch - Attack with a chance to inflict Undead Aqua Soul - 3 range single target dealing MA*16 damage; water ele Death - Wizard version Horrify - 3 range 1 AoE 0 vert tol - Slows targets with 100% + M.Ev Blackout - 3 range 1 AoE 2 vert tol - Blinds target with 100% + M.Ev Liturgy - 3 range + 1 AoE - Adds either Sleep or Undead; 65+MA%
Auto-Shell seems kind of off, but otherwise I like Skeletons at present outside of Death. As long as they can't spam it, perhaps it's not so bad. However, as I just said, I don't really like "hey, I can immediately kill you (maybe)" abilities.
Throw Spirit - 3 range attack Drain Touch* - 1 range ability which drains 33% of the targets Max MP Irreverence - 3 range single target damage; Dark elemental which deals more damage the more faithless the target is Lurid Wave - 1 Range 1 AoE dealing MA*20 damage (also drastically healing the ghost in the process) Zombie Touch - 1 range ability which attempts to inflict Undead on the target Possess - 4 range ability which attempts to Charm an enemy. Persevering.
Similarly, Ghouls seem fine, though it will be difficult to tell how much better Possess might be than the other two techniques.
Doom - 2 range ability, 75+MA% chance to inflict Death Sentence Hyponsis - 2 range ability, 70+MA% chance to inflict either confusion or sleep Radiance - 3 range singe target, inflicts Reflect status with high success rate Gaze - 5 range single target ability dealing non-elemental damage. MA*11 Light Whisper - 3 range + 1 AoE ability randomly dealing Holy and MA-based damage to the area Circle - Reduces targets MA by 5
Not really sure I like Death Sentence and Confusion on the same monster, if only because the AI is still rather stupid with regards to those techniques. Similarly, I still don't Light Whisper hitting randomly. Otherwise, these seem fine.
Shine Lover: self-only haste+regen Beak: 1 range 45+MA chance to petrify targets Aero: 3 range single target MA*X wind damage Cripple: 1 range ability that breaks PA by 4 Hurricane: 3 range 2 AoE ability that knocks off 60% HP on targets Feather Bomb: 6 range single target MA*10 damage (light damage but snipes well)
Again, somewhat weirded out by Auto Protect on this particular monster, but that might just because I'm not use to Auto Protect. (That wouldn't entirely be the reason I find it odd, though, regardless.)
Is Hurricane no longer Wind? Because that seems slightly important one way the other. Beyond that, 60% HP seems like a lot, especially for something with an AoE of 2. I never did like Hurricane as a percentage thing, but the original only took a third unless you were weak to Wind, so even then it didn't seem as suspect as this.
Nose Breath: 1 range 50+MA% charm Oink: 1 range ability that revives fallen allies at 70% HP Warn: Mediator version. 3 range 1 AoE that inflicts Defend. Oinkment: 2 range single target ability that cleanses status ailments, healing them for 33% of their health in the process Exalt: 1 range ability that inflicts Reflect and Faith to the target. High success rate. Vivify: Self-only reraise+shell at 100%
...I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to find some way to e-punch you for "Oinkment"; I'm surprised "Exalt" didn't end up as "Exsalt" or something.
Getting past that, I can't say that I like that Uribo lack any attacking abilities whatsoever even if they are obnoxious little support bastards that seem like they never die. It seems like they should get something one over Warn, which just feels a little weak (even if it's nice to see that it got buffed), especially since Uribos will never get the chance to equip Monster Talk if they don't already have it. (Or can monsters already affect other monsters with Talk Skill? I forget.)
Besides that, I'm not sure what that I like Exalt or HP Restore, but otherwise it's fine, I guess. I mean...they're Uribos. I couldn't care much less.
Leaf Dance - Self AoE 2 dealing earth-elemental damage to all enemies within range Regeneration - Self AoE 2 granting the Regen status to all allies within range Prune - Map-wide effect that removes Regen from allies but heals them for 100% HP Barrier Spirit - Self AoE 2 granting either Protect or Shell to all allies within range Mending Spirit - Self AoE 2 healing both the body and mind of all allies within range - heals PA*10 HP, PA*5 MP Rebirth - Self AoE 2 reviving all allies within range at very low health
Wave Around - PA-based self AoE 1 damage Berserk - 3 range single target 50+MA% chance to inflict Berserk its target Accumulate - Squire version - boosts PA Holy - Priest version, faith/MA based damage Blow Fire - 3 range Linear fire attack, dealing MA*X damage to all targets in range Mimic Titan - Self AoE 2, dealing MA*12 Earth damage
Not much to say here outside of wondering if Bull Demons got enough MP to cast Holy or, rather, when they get enough MP to cast Holy.
HP: med-high C.Ev: med PA: med-high MA: med Sp: low M/J: 2/2 Elements: Absorb: Water, Cancel: Earth, Weak: Ice
Reaction 1: PA-Save Reaction 2: MA-Save
General: Drain Tentacle / Collide / Bad Breath Morbol: Lick Ochu: Goo Great Morbol: Bio
Drain Tentacle: Weapon strike with HP absorb effect Collide: melee range, PA*20 damage as the Morbol receives backlash. Bad Breath: Self-AoE of 2 dealing an array of status effects Lick: ???MP restoration move for melee-range target??? Goo: 4 range single target MA*16 damage with a poison proc Bio: 3 range 1 AoE dealing MA*12 damage with seperate blind, silence, and oil procs. smart targetting
Both PA-Save and MA-Save? Seems a bit much, but it's not like it's broken or anything.
HP: high C.Ev: low PA: high MA: med-high Sp: low M/J: 2/3
Reaction 1: Counter Reaction 2: Counter Magic
General: Roar* / Comet / Boost Behemoth: Gigaflare King Behemoth: Blaze Dark Behemoth: Lifebreak
Roar - Unevadable melee attack - slightly weaker than standard attack Comet - Time Mage version, dealing Fa/MA damage to a single target Boost - Self-only perk of +15 Brave (maybe 20? idk) Gigaflare - 3 range 2 AoE MA*12 damage Life Break - 2 range single target dealing damage in HP difference Blaze - 4 range 3 AoE fire elemental dealing MA*9 damage to enemies in the area
Ugh, I hate seeing that Lifebreak is still around, especially since it's meager range is kind of obviated by Blue Mages getting Goblin Punch (and presumably having had it for a while).
Speaking of Blue Magic, Roar seems rather weak for a Blue Magic spell, especially for one that you presumably get rather late in the game. (Roughly by what chapter do you intend on having Behemoths show up?)
HP: High C.Ev: med-high PA: High MA: med Sp: med M/J: 2/3 Elements - Dragon: Absorb: Lit, Cancel: Dark,Holy, Weak: Water Blue D: Absorb: Ice, Cancel: Dark,Holy, Weak: Fire Red D: Absorb: Fire, Cancel: Dark,Holy, Weak: Ice
Reaction 1: Dragon Spirit Reaction 2: Counter
General: Shatter / Wall / Disrupt Dragon: Lit Breath Blue Dragon: Ice Breath* Red Dragon: Flame Breath
Shatter - Knight; cancels a units defending/protect/shell and harms them for 33% HP damage Wall - Priest; provides protect and shell to a target Disrupt - 3 range single target, inflicts either Don't Act or Don't Move with 65+MA%. Lit/Ice/Flame Breath - 2 range MA*12 elemental damage
You realize that with the current changes, Dragon's currently don't have a regular PA-based attack, right? It seems like that might need to be addressed. Otherwise, I suppose it's fine for still having two human attacks and only differing Breath attacks.
HP: med-high C.Ev: med PA: med-high MA: med-high Sp: med M/J: 2/3 Elements: Absorb: Fire, Lightning, Weak: Ice, Wind
Reaction 1: Regenerator Reaction 2: Dragon Spirit
General: Triple Attack / Triple Flame / Mega Breath Hyudra: D-Power Up Hydra: Triple Thunder Tiamat: Dark Whisper
Triple Attack - 3-way 1-panel PA-based attack Triple Flame - 3-way 2-panel MA*10 fire damage Mega Breath - 3 range dragon-like breath. Fire/Thunder/Dark elemental dealing MA*~12 damage D-Power Up - 3 range Dragon-only that separately inflicts Protect/Shell/Haste/Regen at ~50% Triple Thunder - 3-range AoE 1 MA-based attack. randomly hits 3 times Dark Whisper* - 3-range AoE 1 MA-based attack, randomly hits 3 times. Hits harder than triple thunder but has higher vert tol
Does Dark Whisper still proc Sleep (or Dead)? Otherwise, I'm not sure how I feel about it as a Blue Magic spell, but not for the same reasons as Roar (read: thinking that it's weak).
I'm not sure I like Mega-Breath being tri-elemental, even if it fits.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 am
thanks for the feedback. Quick note, Speed Save is being ASM-hacked (thanks to Pokeytax) of simply granting 20 CT on trigger, so there's no massive cyclic effect anymore. Similarly auto-protect replaces caution and auto-shell replaces sunken state. The ones with caution just got converted, thought the auto-shell on skeletons was more inserted because I think some monster family deserves it, and it seemed to work on them. *shrug*
True, auto-protect does seem out of place on chocos. Making Haste familywide is a good thought, but I think one monster family needs to have an esuna-like ability as a baseline. Choco cure is too much of a staple, and this leaves... choco meteor as something for the Red? Doesn't exactly fit the scheme but it might work better overall.
With bombs they all still have the "attack" command, which will work well enough for fire-friendly foes. I don't think Counter would supplement that much.
Panthers and 51% damage screech is a concern. Perhaps wrangling it down to 33% or 25%? Regarding execute, it's an ideal 100% kill shot on an opponent with low health. With global class evade and innate weapon guard, unless a unit is rocking concentrate physical attacks can always miss. And while execute is faith-based and marred by compat, it should, more often than not, provide a certain edge to things.
Squids and aqua breath isn't auto-AoE. So it's akin to being on the outside of a + sign. It slightly resembles a breath attack from FFTA. It can be targeted on self (for now), but it's basically the same thing as Lurid Wave for ghosts, only water instead of Dark.
Skeletons and Death... perhaps Demi or Lich instead? Auto-shell does seem off, I admit.
Flotiballs and Death Sentence/Confusion -- the AI actually quite intelligent, really. There's no point in acting on a unit that will be dying shortly or will be doing random actions. The current death sentence stupidity comes from (previous) items that block dead but do not block death sentence. This is fixed in this patch. For confusion... there isn't much I can do with it atm since it's still coded last indefinitely, so the "Loss strat" is possible but unlikely. For light whisper... perhaps just plum Light Pillar? Single strike on a single panel?
Birds and Hurricane -- yes its still wind elemental, but being weak to X element when the attack is % based will only increase the odds of it working, not its direct output. 60% is strong, I admit. But I think it needs a large AoE - so its either weak but likely damage or strong but may not work damage. Hm.
Uribos and lacking Monster Talk is something I had neglected to think about. Nose breath should suffice for offensive moves imo, though perhaps they can gain an oracle-like ability instead of Warn? Exsalt is awesome, though perhaps I should make it ally-only. Vivify will certainly have an MP cost and/or charge time, btw.
Bull Demons and Holy... they should have enough MP to rock Holy in chapter 2ish. Not that it'll do phenomenal damage, but it's still a long-range unevadable spell. So it's really more of a half-reference -- if I wanted them to truly have crap for species ability I'd leave it blank and then where's the fun in that? :p
With behemoths and roar, it's the same formula as wave fist (and gets boosted by martial arts, for what its worth). Or, more aptly, it does normal attack damage if the behemoth had 50 Brave. It seems a bit weak for blue magic but I wanted to include another PA-based ability into the mix and there aren't a lot of good options out for such things. Life Break is quite nasty on behemoths specifically because of their health pool, but we'll see how it plays out. I'm pretty sure then enter the game in chapter 3.
Dragons... I'm aware that their only PA-based function is the "attack" command, but perhaps the Disrupt ability can shift into something hefty? Maybe a PA-based knockbacker?
Hydras -- dark whisper has no status attached to it. It's just straight MA damage with the same formula as MA-based elemental. Hm... I may just make it an AoE effect instead of a multi-hit one?
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Skip Sandwich on January 20, 2011, 02:54:16 pm
regarding hurricane, i'm pretty damn certain that elemental weakness falls into the second category of damage modifiers, in that it, like weather effects, boost or reduce the final damage calculation, and not the effective XA of the caster (like X Attack UP/DOWN and Protect/Shell do). This would seem to be confirmed by units in Arena that are weak against dark taking 100% HP damage from Demi 2 and Lich
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 20, 2011, 03:08:39 pm
aaah, yes, you're right.
Cancel/weak/half will affect the damage output Str:ele will only affect the success rate.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Dokurider on January 20, 2011, 06:46:05 pm
*hypnosis
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Lucifer_zero on January 20, 2011, 08:31:34 pm
Don´t know if will be of some help, but i want to give opinions too
Chocobo Why not leave for all Choco Meteor, Choco Haste, Choco Esuna, and make the 4th cure HP but each have a different effect, if it´s possible to have, like Yellow cure most than others ( or cure HP + little MP ), Black cure + Shell and Red cure + Protect ?
Goblin Mutilate is 75% MaxHP or CurHP ? For the name, it could be a skill that when hit dnever kills, but leave the target at critical.
Bomb If Weak + Absorb stacks, Bomb Family could have Weak + Absorb Fire ( I think that would make they a little more useful.
Panther I agree with The Dammed that for now, Panthers aren´t like you wanted, instead of making Screech more weak, why don´t leave it as a 4th skill ? Could make a skill that inflict silence 100% ( or mid - high chance ) [ Cat got your tongue? ] Silence is one status that monsters don´t inflict yet ( except by Great Morbol´s Bio3 )
Squids Nice, not much to say for now, but as creatures from deep they could have Half-Ice
Skeletons All having the same elemental Soul seen kinda odd, and Ice is more undeadish than water, i know that if they lose element this will be like Ghoul´s throw spirit, but still... what about being non elemental brave dependent ( if possible )
About Death, Skels are more Warrior than mages... a close range drain like skill seen more they ( something like Blood Sword, same name as the sword, except it´s a close skill ). But, i liked Demi, but only if is 0 AOE. For react, with fury implemetent, what about Brave Up ? That way the more they are hit, the more they hit back ! ( and with Soul being brave dependent... more damage )
Ghouls Irreverence seen kinda odd, cuz it looks more like a punishment for someone who don´t belive in god..., instead, could it not heal non undead ? ( yeah... undead healling non undead is odd to... )
Flotiball Being a heavy-MA monster, they should have at least one skill MA based damage ( even throught their skills are MA based % ), and, like The Dammed, i don´t think that Light Whisper is good with random hitting.
Juravis Instead of Auto protect, maybe Critical quick ? And Hurricane could be like i´ve said on Mutilate, take CurHP instead of MaxHP.
Uribo Need something better than Warn, maybe a skill that replanish MP of one target ? If the intend is to make they being more alive, put Dragon Spirit + HP Restore ( sound strange... i know... )
Woodmen Regeneration and Prune affects only Allies or self too ? Barrier and Rebirth will be 100% ?
Bull Demon For me sound odd Holy not with Sacred.
Morbols No one would like to hav a Morbol lick... so Lick should be negative, like give one of these Stop / Don´t Act / dont Move, with 100% at close range ( morbols hav Mov 2... they don go close so easily ), or, as they hav a bad breath, they tongue is venous and it still scary a giant morbol lickin you, so u become paralyzed with fear... so... Poison + Don´t Act 100% close range ( i´ve also thinked about Poison + dont Act + Haste... but then people would put status defense gear to hav a morbol Hasting every time )
Behemot I love Behemot, but on FFT i think they are kinda weak, will they have innates ?
Boost as 15 is good, with 20 this would make to easy having 100 brave, as it would be necessary you use the Brave down skill 2 times to counter one boost.
Dragon Instead of Disrupt, why don bring back Tail Swing, but range 2... and the knockback ( but no random damage )
Hydra How is the difference on Vert Tol of Triple Thunder and Dark Whisper ? Triple Flame could be non-elemental, that way each tier would have only one elemental.
For now it´s only this... i think... i´m kinda sleepy rigth now, don´t know if my opinio will help... but at least i´m trying.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 21, 2011, 12:05:02 am
*smacks face while trying to think up good Archery skills*
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 am thanks for the feedback. Quick note, Speed Save is being ASM-hacked (thanks to Pokeytax) of simply granting 20 CT on trigger, so there's no massive cyclic effect anymore.
I was already aware of that, which is why I didn't say anything about Panthers having Speed Save. (Although, admittedly, I believe mine have regular Speed Save at present, so there's that as well.
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amTrue, auto-protect does seem out of place on chocos. Making Haste familywide is a good thought, but I think one monster family needs to have an esuna-like ability as a baseline. Choco cure is too much of a staple, and this leaves... choco meteor as something for the Red? Doesn't exactly fit the scheme but it might work better overall.
I was going to say this is fine, but I actually think that Lucifer_zero is onto something.
As for what to potentially Auto-Protect with, perhaps Regenerator? They pretty much act like Priests anyway and it wouldn't be as potentially obnoxious as giving them Critical Quick or Dragon Spirit. Also, only one other monster family of yours, the Hydra, has it.
It's not like Auto-Protect is huge deal anyway, especially if you're giving Knights Auto-Protect.
33% seems like it would be more fair. Maybe even 40~% if you do what Lucifer_zero suggested.
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amRegarding execute, it's an ideal 100% kill shot on an opponent with low health. With global class evade and innate weapon guard, unless a unit is rocking concentrate physical attacks can always miss. And while execute is faith-based and marred by compat, it should, more often than not, provide a certain edge to things.
I guess Execute is fair enough then. I still just really find it odd that Archers have it or that it's a distant attack, rather.
When I think medieval executions, I think of axes and maybe swords beheading people. Not arrows "pew pew" shooting them in the head. (Not that this isn't effective at killing someone. It's not that's not exactly what you think of when you think of a firing squad.)
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amSquids and aqua breath isn't auto-AoE. So it's akin to being on the outside of a + sign. It slightly resembles a breath attack from FFTA. It can be targeted on self (for now), but it's basically the same thing as Lurid Wave for ghosts, only water instead of Dark.
By being "outside", I'm assuming you mean "stand in the center of and not get hit if you don't want to".
Otherwise, I think I pretty much get what you're saying.
Not really sure. I've come to hate Lich as of late and Demi is rather...unwhelming still I'm guessing. I guess Demi's fine as long as it's quick enough since it gives them a way to heal themselves (?) as while still attacking. Do they even really need a "Darkness-based percentage" attack though?
Anyway, as said earlier, the Auto-Shell thing isn't a huge deal. It just seems a bit weird. Perhaps consider Auto-Protect? Then again, Auto-Shell would maybe protect them from Raise (2) shenanigans, so...?
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amFlotiballs and Death Sentence/Confusion -- the AI actually quite intelligent, really. There's no point in acting on a unit that will be dying shortly or will be doing random actions. The current death sentence stupidity comes from (previous) items that block dead but do not block death sentence. This is fixed in this patch.
While that is the major problem with Death Sentence and the AI, there's also the problem that they will pretty always straight out ignore the Death Sentence'd unit even if it's still a (major) threat. If they at least attempted to status the unit or something, then I'd be less weary of it.
Last I worked on my patch, I had to take the precaution of always pairing up Death Sentence with another status (usually Poison) to get around this, even after implementing the "Ignore Block: Dead" stuff.
Single strike on a single panel sounds good. Maybe even a (weaker) linear Light/Holy attack.
I wouldn't name it Light Pillar, though. Given that you're referencing past FFs, you probably don't want to use the same name as something that was, IIRC, at least a couple of Omega Weapons' instant kill Gravity attack.
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amBirds and Hurricane -- yes its still wind elemental, but being weak to X element when the attack is % based will only increase the odds of it working, not its direct output. 60% is strong, I admit. But I think it needs a large AoE - so its either weak but likely damage or strong but may not work damage. Hm.
What Skip Sandwich pointed out. I honestly have no idea why it works like that.
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amUribos and lacking Monster Talk is something I had neglected to think about. Nose breath should suffice for offensive moves imo, though perhaps they can gain an oracle-like ability instead of Warn?
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amBull Demons and Holy... they should have enough MP to rock Holy in chapter 2ish. Not that it'll do phenomenal damage, but it's still a long-range unevadable spell. So it's really more of a half-reference -- if I wanted them to truly have crap for species ability I'd leave it blank and then where's the fun in that? :p
Oh, I'm fine with Bull Demons having Holy now. I was just asking because I'm not sure how much it costs to cast Holy in your patch and I'm not nearly good enough to work out stat growth or anything like that in my head at present.
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amWith behemoths and roar, it's the same formula as wave fist (and gets boosted by martial arts, for what its worth). Or, more aptly, it does normal attack damage if the behemoth had 50 Brave. It seems a bit weak for blue magic but I wanted to include another PA-based ability into the mix and there aren't a lot of good options out for such things. Life Break is quite nasty on behemoths specifically because of their health pool, but we'll see how it plays out. I'm pretty sure then enter the game in chapter 3.
Okay, fair enough. I keep forgetting you're keeping Martial Arts available to the generics/player.
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 am Dragons... I'm aware that their only PA-based function is the "attack" command, but perhaps the Disrupt ability can shift into something hefty? Maybe a PA-based knockbacker?
You mean like bringing back Tail Swing or Dash or something? Hey, if it isn't broken....
Quote from: philsov on January 20, 2011, 11:52:10 amHydras -- dark whisper has no status attached to it. It's just straight MA damage with the same formula as MA-based elemental. Hm... I may just make it an AoE effect instead of a multi-hit one?
Oh, okay.
Yeah, in that case, AoE seems like it might be better, but then again, Blue Mage would be a bit more versatile with a multi-hitting attacking over yet another AoE one. So it's your call really. (Although that's kind of pointless to say since all of it is your call.)
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pm
QuoteDon´t know if will be of some help, but i want to give opinions too
That's exactly why this topic is here. Well, moreso for the 2nd part. But still!
(Note: merging responses to both you and Damned into a single semi-wall (block?) of text)
Chocobo - sadly there isn't a formula that heals and reliably adds status. So Red as the "offensive" variant is sounding better and better in my mind. Regenerator would make a good 2nd reaction, and it's neither obnoxious nor common.
Goblin - Mutilate is Max HP. All the formulae that involve Current HP can't hold an element so I'm not using them since they'd be horribly OP on bosses. The MaxHP's can be flagged as Dark, and thus boss immune, which is why I can rock 75% HP in the first place.
Bombs - Already weak+absorb Fire for maximum absorb funsies. And, yes, all monsters have the generic "attack" command by default, good ol' missionary PA * PA*Br/100.
Panthers - A silencer would be a pretty cool move, and something welcome for the monsters. However I find having both that and screech on the same unit rather redundant. Perhaps I can keep the Screech skill around as a free-agent for other 4th skillers with other monsters.
QuoteNot arrows "pew pew" shooting them in the head.
They're critical and frantical sprinting away from you. You can try to chase them down and hack them up, or regally stand where you are, get them in your sights, lead them ever so slightly, release the bow string, and THWACK. THUMP. A twitch, perhaps, and then nothing.
>_>
Squids: I hadn't thought to include half:elements for most of the schemes. Currently most monsters are weak to one, absorb one, and cancel one. Hm. As for the plus thing, you're still IN the plus, just not in the center. It's 1 range with 1 AoE. If you use the ability directly in front of you, you'll get hit by your own blast, then 3 squares, then 1. The squids hitting themselves with it is half the point because it's spark-like in nature with them healing themselves while damaging the bad people.
Skeletons: retain Aqua Soul because of the blue mage scheme more than anything else. Ice Soul would be redundant with Ice Breath, and so it just came down to Lit Soul versus Aqua Soul, and Aqua Soul seemed to fit skeles as a whole more. It's just... really cold water? Regarding the formula, it is possible. There is a [PA * Br/100] * MA formula (flagged no element) that I have yet to employ, but perhaps it'd be better to give that one to Ghosts as a replacement for Throw Spirit -- and then make Throw Spirit blue mage available? I want to keep XXX Soul and Throw Spirit different, and the elemental attribute atm is a nice striking difference (and currently one is MA while the other is PA based).
Atm Fury is one hack that's not making its way into the patch, because there are several scenarios where I want the enemies to have 100% Br for reaction funsies, and I don't want to cause these guys to deal/receive massive damage as a result of it.
Close-range drain is an idea, but Morlboros currently have that and I want to avoid repeats of that nature when possible. I'd prefer to stick to the Dark motiff, and Demi is a good candidate (Demi2 is becoming single target but hits for greater than 50% HP) with its AoE. Regarding reaction... I doubt auto-shell would do much versus Raise2 and Cure ignores shell. Heh.
Ghosts - Punishing the nonbelievers in pure spite and hatred is the entire point of it, and its more effective the more cynical the ghost is!
Flotiballs - Confusion + poison seems like a fun little combo. So far only the plague is lacking in a pure MA-based ability with the other two having species-specific MA-based damagers, but for what its worth the success rate of circle (and all their statii, really) is MA-based. As for a linear Light attack... so far we've got Immolate on the Bombs and various breaths from bull/dragon/hydra. Sure, another would be fine, probably to the tune of 5 range (something like Holy Explosion, only not, you know, overpowered).
Juravis - I'm using MaxHP for reasons above, but Crit Quick (which is also rare monster-wise) secondary would be pretty cool, if rarely used (as in, speed save would have to fail and the bird would need to be critical.). That window might be too tight and I want them with Speed Save primary so idk.
Uribo - Dragon Spirit + HP Restore on a single unit is just flat out broken. MP Restoration is a possibility (and monsters are lacking one such move atm). Hm. Angel Song should work? Despite the obvious piggy-squeal jokes that can be made? The animation is a bit off but it's not glitchy. btw their normal attack command is soooo cute.
Trees - Prune is certainly ally-only, but I don't think Regenerator will be. Barrier spirit is 100% and Rebirth will probably be 100% as well (I hate sub 100% revivals...)
Bulls - Eh, Sacred is just a funny name anyways. Regarding MP... it's all a relative thing, really. The only numbers I'm concerned about are the ones dealing with blue magic and monsters that gain human abilities which have an MP cost. I can juggle around those np.
Behemoth - not planning on innates, really. Possibly innate short/non charge but past that giving them stuff like attack up or magic attack up is pointless when I can just as easily boost their MA or PA multipliers.
Dragons - Knockback formula IS random tragically and imo scales for crap. But the ability to knockback will be worth the reduced damage later on.
Hydras - The currently difference in vert tol is 2 between thunder and dark whisper... the latter of which will probably remain multi-hit because it increases the functionality of the blue mage (who has plenty of AoE effects). If I make triple flame plum triple breath, I don't think it'd tip too many scales either way. Hydras would be elemental-less (minus mega breath), mind, but making it fire element or no elemental is minor, and now that you mention it I'm pretty sure non-ele would probably be better.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 22, 2011, 01:44:10 am
I'd call that more of a block than a wall given you only directly quoted one thing in between all that text.
Anyway, are there any plans to turn Monster Skill into something worth a damn given that you don't need it for anything at all now?
*vaguely remembers learning this when trying to out something months ago*
Oh...right. Damn.
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmGoblin - Mutilate is Max HP. All the formulae that involve Current HP can't hold an element so I'm not using them since they'd be horribly OP on bosses. The MaxHP's can be flagged as Dark, and thus boss immune, which is why I can rock 75% HP in the first place.
Oh, right. Still, 75% HP seems like a lot..., but I guess it's okay since it's close-range.
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmBombs - Already weak+absorb Fire for maximum absorb funsies. And, yes, all monsters have the generic "attack" command by default, good ol' missionary PA * PA*Br/100.
Okay, good to know.
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmPanthers - A silencer would be a pretty cool move, and something welcome for the monsters. However I find having both that and screech on the same unit rather redundant. Perhaps I can keep the Screech skill around as a free-agent for other 4th skillers with other monsters.
Or you could perhaps just make sure that Screech and whatever Silencing technique stay separate by giving Blood Suck to all Panthers over Screech. Might want to make Blood Suck do less damage in that case. (Or did you intend for it to still be able to inflict Blood Suck? If so, then nevermind this suggestion.)
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmThey're critical and frantical sprinting away from you. You can try to chase them down and hack them up, or regally stand where you are, get them in your sights, lead them ever so slightly, release the bow string, and THWACK. THUMP. A twitch, perhaps, and then nothing.
>_>
Call it "Snipe" then. "Execute" makes it sound like the target isn't moving.
On the one hand, I concur with the halving Ice thing. On the other hand, I realize that I might have gone a "tad" overboard when it came to Elemental things. Then again, I'm focusing on Elemental stuff more than you are, so that's ironically where the problem is coming from.
Okay, as I thought. Good to have confirmation regardless.
QuoteSkeletons: retain Aqua Soul because of the blue mage scheme more than anything else. Ice Soul would be redundant with Ice Breath, and so it just came down to Lit Soul versus Aqua Soul, and Aqua Soul seemed to fit skeles as a whole more. It's just... really cold water? Regarding the formula, it is possible.
Well, it does make sense that Skeletons would employ really cold showers of water given that they're constantly boned up.
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmThere is a [PA * Br/100] * MA formula (flagged no element) that I have yet to employ, but perhaps it'd be better to give that one to Ghosts as a replacement for Throw Spirit -- and then make Throw Spirit blue mage available? I want to keep XXX Soul and Throw Spirit different, and the elemental attribute atm is a nice striking difference (and currently one is MA while the other is PA based).
It sounds like it has potential. Do Blue Mages even have any non-elemental distance attacks at present?
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmAtm Fury is one hack that's not making its way into the patch, because there are several scenarios where I want the enemies to have 100% Br for reaction funsies, and I don't want to cause these guys to deal/receive massive damage as a result of it.
Ah, but I wanted to hit people's weak points for massive damage....
I'm guessing all of these 100 Brave people would be bosses only?
Not really. The Poison damage should negate Confusion after one turn, unless that's what you meant about it being "fun", i.e. a way for the AI to use Confusion without it utterly screwing them over (for more than one turn).
So does that mean that Hurricane is (also) Dark-element now?
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmBulls - Eh, Sacred is just a funny name anyways. Regarding MP... it's all a relative thing, really. The only numbers I'm concerned about are the ones dealing with blue magic and monsters that gain human abilities which have an MP cost. I can juggle around those np.
I suppose it's even easier now in a way since monsters will now actually use MP.
Quote from: philsov on January 21, 2011, 10:22:13 pmBehemoth - not planning on innates, really. Possibly innate short/non charge but past that giving them stuff like attack up or magic attack up is pointless when I can just as easily boost their MA or PA multipliers.
So glad to see people realize this, even if I already knew you knew it. I'll never understand why people bother wasting innate slots on Magic Attack Up or Attack Up. The hell is the point?
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Lucifer_zero on January 24, 2011, 08:52:34 pm
Chocobo - Sad about no CURE + STATUS
Woodmen - My bad, what i wanted to mean is if Prune and Regenerator will target itself.
Behemot - I´ve througth not on AttackUP or MAttackUP, exactly on what you said, it´s easy to change the multipliers. what i´m thinking is DefUP and MDefUP ( as in FF, Behemots tend to be more tankers with real power... )
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on January 24, 2011, 10:48:38 pm
And here I was using these to only cancel status -_-.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: philsov on January 25, 2011, 08:54:23 pm
QuoteAnyway, are there any plans to turn Monster Skill into something worth a damn given that you don't need it for anything at all now?
Nah.
QuoteOr you could perhaps just make sure that Screech and whatever Silencing technique stay separate by giving Blood Suck to all Panthers over Screech. Might want to make Blood Suck do less damage in that case. (Or did you intend for it to still be able to inflict Blood Suck? If so, then nevermind this suggestion.)
Nah, blood suck I'm leaning more towards a percentage drain attack. While the option for 100% status is possible, I think 100% is too much on top of this as a baseline ability. But that'd certainly work... long term versus short term. Still need to think of something for Cat Kick or whatever and it'd somehow be in line with these two though....
QuoteIt sounds like it has potential. Do Blue Mages even have any non-elemental distance attacks at present?
Newp. It'd fit great. It seems kind of weird to double up on blue mage skills from a single family (ghosts give Drain Touch too), but at the same time I think Blue Mage should have drain touch and ghosts should have drain touch so... whatever.
QuoteI'm guessing all of these 100 Brave people would be bosses only?
Or people associated with the bosses, yes. Either way, certainly enemy-only.
QuoteThe Poison damage should negate Confusion after one turn, unless that's what you meant about it being "fun", i.e. a way for the AI to use Confusion without it utterly screwing them over (for more than one turn).
Wheeeee!
QuoteSo does that mean that Hurricane is (also) Dark-element now?
QuoteWoodmen - My bad, what i wanted to mean is if Prune and Regenerator will target itself.
Ah. Yeah, both work on themselves as well.
Quotewhat i´m thinking is DefUP and MDefUP
I can understand one or the other, on concept (like a Ghost with innate Def Up), but if you want both -- just boost the HP :). And behemoth HP is pretty high atm. It's still a normal monster and needs to be moderately comparable to, say, chocobos and skeletons.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: The Damned on January 25, 2011, 09:30:09 pm
*facepalms twice between also only using those healing formula to negate status and had doubtless given a few things both Def UP when I could have just raised HP*
I guess this means I can give Mime Monster Talk and something else after all.
Quote from: philsov on January 25, 2011, 08:54:23 pmNah, blood suck I'm leaning more towards a percentage drain attack. While the option for 100% status is possible, I think 100% is too much on top of this as a baseline ability.
You could also use a Separate status to drop it down to 25%, but, yeah, that formula annoyed me.
Quote from: philsov on January 25, 2011, 08:54:23 pmNewp. It'd fit great. It seems kind of weird to double up on blue mage skills from a single family (ghosts give Drain Touch too), but at the same time I think Blue Mage should have drain touch and ghosts should have drain touch so... whatever.
Meh. As long as less than a quarter of their skills can be gotten from two or more monsters, I think it's fine. I'm pretty sure at least two of my skills at present can be gotten from two different families (Fire Breath and something else [Aero?]), though Blue Mage is still likely to change.
Looks good. Maybe lower the HP healing down to 20% given that Chocobo can still move pretty far.
Choco Meteor is either going to be avoidable this time or do (a lot) less damage, correct?
Not much else to say about monsters at present.
Title: Re: Monsters
Post by: Lucifer_zero on January 26, 2011, 06:58:53 am
Quote from: philsov on January 25, 2011, 08:54:23 pm I can understand one or the other, on concept (like a Ghost with innate Def Up), but if you want both -- just boost the HP :). And behemoth HP is pretty high atm. It's still a normal monster and needs to be moderately comparable to, say, chocobos and skeletons.
The true is that i was thininking of making Behemot more dificult to kill ( with so much HP and taking less damage ), but on really is as you said, they need to be comparable to others monsters.
About panthers, i dont see problems on having Screech and silence together ( and it would only be on red panther ) as or you can silence one mage while wait for other one charge to make a good damage, but i don´t know how AI would use these skills
About Chocobo skills, i´ve liked 25%, i don´t think it´s to big, nor to small.