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☢ ☢ ☢ FFT Arena AI Tournament Season 5 ☢ ☢ ☢

Started by Barren, August 29, 2016, 09:46:38 pm

gatebuster202

Quote from: reinoe on September 02, 2016, 01:32:32 pm
Hey all.  I noticed that MP SWITCH is back.  What's preventing players from running the infamous MP SWITHC/MOVE MP UP combo?  Is there a gentleman's agreement to prevent it?


MS Switch does not stop all the damage... Spillover damage from the MP pool then hits HP. (So if you have 50 MP and take a comet to the face, you still lose 50 HP)
  • Modding version: PSX
Winner of the 2nd FFT Arena SCC Tourney. -Geomancers

xAltairSpartanx

I was just curious. Will these teams be uploaded to the excel sheet? I think this season is perfect to use as tests due to the wide variety of class makeup. Also this has been a very exciting season so far and great commentating!

synth

Really excited to see my first match!

I got absolutely wrecked in that first game. I think I ended up getting pretty lucky in the last two games with so many effects missing me in spots that seemed pretty critical. GGs!


Thanks for the commentary. Was awesome.

gatebuster202

Quote from: xAltairSpartanx on September 02, 2016, 06:32:14 pm
I was just curious. Will these teams be uploaded to the excel sheet? I think this season is perfect to use as tests due to the wide variety of class makeup. Also this has been a very exciting season so far and great commentating!


I will post my spreadsheet tomorrow
  • Modding version: PSX
Winner of the 2nd FFT Arena SCC Tourney. -Geomancers

Gaignun

Sorry CT5Holy :(

I like your wind synergy, but the windmills did not get a chance to spin. I look forward to seeing your renewable energy-powered team in the matches to come.

CT5Holy


No worries Gaignun, it was the wake-up call I wish I had before the tournament started XD
Glad to see you're as sharp as ever (though I wouldn't have expected any less!).
Winner of the 1st FFT 1.3 AI Tourney

gatebuster202

September 03, 2016, 02:52:20 am #46 Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 11:38:07 am by gatebuster202
Reserved for matches, check back Saturday at 20:00 CST


(I have matches 15-20 logged on my Twitch, I am editing them so it cuts out the filler. Watch it at your own risk... Match 13 and 14 participants, I am almost positive this is spoiler free. Your matches are done being edited but I am not able to upload at this moment.)

Matches 15-20 Stream Archive.
https://www.twitch.tv/gatebuster202/v/87140085

Going forward all GB done matches will be available on Archive, while we wait for me to finish the edits.

FFT Arena Season 5 Match #13 - Andante49 vs Dokurider

FFT Arena Season 5 Match #14 - Argy vs Rouroni Elmdor

FFT Arena Season 5 Match #15 - Vigilanti vs Shintroy
  • Modding version: PSX
Winner of the 2nd FFT Arena SCC Tourney. -Geomancers

Corosar

Quote from: dw6561 on September 02, 2016, 11:27:45 am
FFT Arena Season 5 Tournament Match #12 - Corosar vs. MyuQQ


1st unit The team is designed to be status protected more than anything else. The reason i didn't go with 108 gems is to allow better protection from far worse issues such as charm and poison. Triangle hat to prevent innocent and black robes to cover the three element strengthening. The primatic rod simply for covering water. that is really it. as for Caution. i rather her be able to at least attempt to dodge rather than gettting whacked.

2nd unit. I understood the risk with using the bloodsword on my berserker. i also understood what i was doing with my items for him as well. He will never be broken out of berserk because of the maintanence support skill i gave him preventing breaks and more importantly to this analysis.. Thefts. He has no use for abilities if he is never getting out of berserk so again status immunity made more sense to me here.

3rd unit. I wanted this unit to try and reduce the enemy and its about time books got a good chance. She is the support healer of the team!

4th unit. in case your wondering about steal. its mostly so that it can be effected by martial arts. the steal abilities are effected by martial. it should counter the issue with missing.


Sighs why do i bother trying....
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
Time for a new season!

V 1.4.1 W/L: 3 / 7
V 1.4 W/L: 3 / 14.5
V 1.39 W/L: 13.25 / 22

UniqueTownPortal

September 03, 2016, 01:43:45 pm #48 Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 01:50:42 pm by UniqueTownPortal
Hello,
unfortunately I have missed chance to register to this tournament ;( so as well as other people I have a humble request for a spreadsheet :) I would like to test my team against this year, and I know I can generate the file myself but it would be much faster if I can skip the process of an input and go straight to making saves ;)
Thank you for passion and time and will to still make tournaments, keep the good work.

Jumza


All those Don't Acts :'( I knew this one was a lost cause for me when I saw all those white robes and other element blocker / halvers. GG Silentkaster

(All those 69% Lay on Hands and 50 something% Don't Acts though :P)
  • Modding version: PSX
Nyzer: Alma teleports out of her own possessed body.
Raijinili: Remember that you're telling a modding community that the game they love could use some fixing.

Chemist

Quote from: Corosar on September 03, 2016, 04:59:10 am

1st unit The team is designed to be status protected more than anything else. The reason i didn't go with 108 gems is to allow better protection from far worse issues such as charm and poison. Triangle hat to prevent innocent and black robes to cover the three element strengthening. The primatic rod simply for covering water. that is really it. as for Caution. i rather her be able to at least attempt to dodge rather than gettting whacked.

2nd unit. I understood the risk with using the bloodsword on my berserker. i also understood what i was doing with my items for him as well. He will never be broken out of berserk because of the maintanence support skill i gave him preventing breaks and more importantly to this analysis.. Thefts. He has no use for abilities if he is never getting out of berserk so again status immunity made more sense to me here.

3rd unit. I wanted this unit to try and reduce the enemy and its about time books got a good chance. She is the support healer of the team!

4th unit. in case your wondering about steal. its mostly so that it can be effected by martial arts. the steal abilities are effected by martial. it should counter the issue with missing.


Sighs why do i bother trying....



So a couple of things I've noticed. I 100% think that you had the right idea with status protection but I think you over thought your team a bit. If you don't mind I'd like to try and give you some tips or at least my two cents. But this is just my opinion, none of it is set in stone as I'm still pretty new to arena myself and make mistakes with my units all the time.

First and foremost you went up against, two units who specific jobs were to nuke with Holy and D.Holy. With that being said Myu's team punishes people with low brave units so try and keep that in mind when watching the match. And he has a holy nuker very similar to mine. (Like literally almost move for move xD)

Your first unit, the wizard. I personally think the unit did her job. She casted powerful black magic constantly and ultimately did what she was supposed to do. I think overall this is your best unit. Now I understand your reasoning for Magic Ring however, despite charm being a dangerous status, don't act (arm aim, paralyze, blackmail, etc.) are far more common status and will prevent your unit from being able to cast spells and essentially do its job. :)

I also understand caution! Caution is a great move but it doesn't actually boost your evasion any. Considering you had a Magic Ring and not something like a mantle your lack of evasion didn't compliment caution. It seems like you built your Wizard to be a glass cannon and then just put evasion just cause you had JP xD. Caution would have been better suited for a caster with evasion or a shield and/or mantle. If you had the JP I would've recommended the following if you were worried about defense for this unit:


  • Projectile Guard
    MP Switch
    Auto Potion
    Damage Split
    Hp Restore
    Abandon (With a Mantle at least)




Also the first unit also had summon magic for moogle, fairy and carbunkle. I understand you wanted to branch out but I think there may have been better choices. White Magic for Raise and Cure 4 possibly? You weren't walking around with Piety, MA Up or Pilgrimage so maybe Time Magic or YY.Magic for status effect may have also been good. With the unit already having MP-Up, it didn't necessarily need carbunkle.

Barren once said if you have a unit who's job is damage dealing, giving it support moves may backfire cause the unit will have too many options and not do what you want it to do.. It's just something to think about. :)

-----

Your 2nd Unit: I totally understand why you went the berserk route with attack up. In fact, his build is quite similar to a Blood Kage build awhile back. However, being so afraid of charm + steal I think gave you some missed opportunity here. This unit was supposed to walk in and deal some real damage. However only hitting for 99-140ish is not good for a melee unit. Considering how particular a melee unit has to be in terms of damage, move, status protection, speed and fitting into your overall team, they usually need to sacrifice something in order to be effective.

However damage is something you want a berserk unit to do above all else. And I think you would've gotten more bang for your buck with Attack Up/Warpath or Two hands/Warpath, etc. PA Save as well possible just to just pour even more damage on the table.

If the unit was able to drop the Geomancer or deal more damage to the Time Mage, you definitely would've been in better shape. You did have the necessary Darkness protection which is good! But I do think Escutcheon II may have been a better option just for some overall magic and physical defense. The Dragon Spirit to try and grab a reraise so you didn't have to worry about the unit being raised was an interestting thought process but if you had the shield it could've potentially taken less damage by having more evasion.

DISCLAIMER: I am really bad at making melee units so I am not one to talk extensively about them xD
-----

So you were making a WM/Time Mage unit which is part of the "Meta" right now. However, I think given your overall want to have a unit that reduces the enemy, you should've just had a unit who spams holy with the ability to hold a shield.

A Geomancer could've sufficed for example or even a WM Squire or the usual meta with a Time Mage with White Magic which seems to be all the rage. If you were looking for Time Magic just to provide some disruption I think that your spells were on point but I don't think you should have Both Holy and TM abilities. The unit may not do what you wanted to do.

Cure 2-3 are very strong options but considering that you want the unit to use its other abilities, maybe just Cure 4 would've been a better pick just so it could have used a quick and powerful cure and continued with its actions.

Outside of that, you gave the Wizard summon magic, you could've also made this unit into a Summoner with WM (since you wanted to try out books) and grabbed the Necronomicon for book hits, possible undead and then follow up with a raise 2 for some instant KO's. Just some combos to think about!

-----
I think that this Monk is build really good! I may have went with Earth slash instead of repeating fist with some earth elemental but that's just semantics. I think the Steal Heart is a nice touch and it definitely worked on Myu's units! However, it didn't mesh well with your berserk unit who kept attacking the closest units knocking them immediately out of charm.

In addition the attacks, as I mentioned before didn't pack that much of a punch. (Granted all of Myu's units have low brave as well so it was countering your physical attacks) However I do think you had an overall good idea here. You could've also went Gil Toss, Steal Heart and accessory. Given that Steal weapon has such a low chance of success.
-----

Again those are just my opinions so they aren't some super pro analysis and I'm definitely not the best in Arena. But I want you to know that your thought process was sound and that you aren't doing anything wrong. Just some tweaking here and there to bring it up to competitive levels!


Also keep in mind all of myu's units are casters. Time Mage, Geo, Wizard and Spellgun archer. With their low brave and optimized spell damage it wasn't a direct counter but the team had counter measures to your team. Also outside of the black mage who's job was to deal damage, the ability to resurrect was limited in terms of how much the units actually healed. Raise 1, Revive and even Fairy don't compare to Raise 2's full heal.

And despite your units' spells (in the 2nd match) being able to go off before Myu's, they just didn't hit hard enough to kill some of his more dangerous units outside of the archer.

Also you shouldn't get down over the loss, Myu's team was using some of the most strongest abilities in the game right now and you were using a berserk unit and a monster dict user which are some unpopular unit setups and you weren't optimizing for damage and status protection. There was nothing wrong with your team just a matter of clashing strategies. I'm pretty sure you'll do fine later in the tournament!

And if you have any questions or inquires, you can always come on discord and anyone and everyone will be more than happy to help you. ^_^
  • Modding version: PSX
Lijj is the best! If you don't know, now you know!
~Elite Romanda Gunner~

gatebuster202

Season 5 MCG, for those asking. Also includes most of what has been published to date
Add my Season Five team to it and update all teams adjusted after 8/15/16
Thanks Andrew for most of the work.
  • Modding version: PSX
Winner of the 2nd FFT Arena SCC Tourney. -Geomancers

Argy


Well done mate, the speed of your teams was a little overwhelming for my team. Couldn't do much to take down those thieves. Good luck in the rest of the tournament. GG

  • Modding version: PSX
Kotetsu Quad Killer!!

gatebuster202

I am working on compressing and uploading the Videos... Be done today?
  • Modding version: PSX
Winner of the 2nd FFT Arena SCC Tourney. -Geomancers

skiploom188

Hmm skiploom wants to comment too


Long match, an entertaining standoff as both teams refuse to back down. I really like Dokurider's team here with all that Bizen boat that acts offensively on enemies and heals on allies. Not only that, that Magic Song will only put the team's MA up the roof! Brilliant! Your team is so good that even the berserk archer joined on your side LOL. It is on this match where you will see the disadvantage of a berserked ranged unit explained in 2 rounds.

R1 = Dat potion exchange between the chemist and the mime. What an amazing moment right there. A sharp and sexy move.
R2 = The berserk archer's misses are too much to bear. He likes to miss his shots doesn't he? Just when you thought he finally has that vantage point, he creates a miracle and continues to miss.

After watching your match, two things were in my head:
- if the archer wasn't berserk, what could have happened?
- I hope I don't get to face Doku's team. low faith + projectile guard + holy absorb? The exact countermeasures needed for team skiploom. Dw6561, if you are reading this, please cheer for this team. He may be the one that will make me pay for the destruction of your team and hopefully, let you go of your grudge :)



Another entertaining standoff. Great show of force on both teams. It's really interesting to see how Rouroni's team managed to pull those reversals on R2 & R3.  It's a great demonstration of resilience.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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I evolved... into a stick figure. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj-yTyoVpYIdcdIPw8SP5rw
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Pokemon Fantasy Tactics - A treat for FFT fans! http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10984.msg207542
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Elmdork

Great job on the commentary, guys! Been a blast thus far, managed to catch all tourney matches to date!

Particularly great commentary from gatebuster, and a lucky ff6-7 soundtrack. Very enjoyable watch.

That was a real nail biter, Argy's team is a soft counter to mine. I have some lucky charms to thank for this victory.
GG, man, that's a solid team you got there, I'm sure you'll get some good wins this year with em'
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
The bird of Hermes is my name
Eating my wings to make me tame
  • Discord username: rouroni elmdor

Dokurider

Hmm, I seem to have made a typo on Bizen Missile II. She was supposed to have a Murasame. Well in any case, Gatebuster does have a point, lower range = better berserk usage, with 1 Range being the least threatening to your team. This is why Melee Berserkers have been the most practical build in Arena's history.

It's rather infuriating that an otherwise decent team loses because of deliberately coded stupidity. Given all of our recent advances in ASM and documentation of FFT's code, it's more and more of a reality that we can even fix this idiocy. It's not quite there yet, because the AI routines are even still relatively undocumented because they are scary, possibly running on magic, and most of all, are very confusing.

In any case, good luck on your next matches, Andante. Hopefully, your Gunner will do something besides shoot his own teammates and the wall.

Shintroy

Unorthodox Oil/Melee vs Stalling Mime

R1 - Unbalanced map. P2 starts boxed in. Not a balanced map at all due to the pillar. Starts off pretty decent until my team gets forced to split up. Quick round only due to the map.

R2 - The only neutral map in the set so my team's allowed to position itself. Pretty even at the start. It takes a good 15 minutes for things to happen. Clutch mime tanking 3 units allowing the rest of the team to take out the monk. Due to Andante's team having no endgame potential the round's ends after the monk crystallizes.

R3 - Another map that starts with P2 boxed in unless their speed's higher than P1.  To top that off it's a smaller map than R1's. The exact same thing that happened in R1 happens here. Pretty stupid to lose to the map and not the player. After the archer loses it's pretty much over unless the mime somehow is in position to charm a male when the chemist tries to charm the scholar.

Interesting team Vigilante. It wasn't a good game due to the unbalanced maps though. The way these teams are made, whoever was player 1 with the maps chosen was likely to win. on maps 1 and 3.

Map 97 (S) isn't small due to the starting positions and player 2 starts off boxed in. Remove the pillar to balance it.
Map 49 (M) Fort Zeakden. This map's starting position makes it a small one. Player 2 starts off boxed in. I don't see a way to balance this map unless both teams start off behind the buildings. There doesn't seem to be a way to have a neutral start for this map without a redesign.
Balanced vs Offensive Magic

No idea who will take this. Both teams have new an interesting builds. Truelight's Time Mage and Mudvayne's use of Rune Blade have a lot of potential.

R1 - Pretty even start. Truelight's speed advantage ends up overwhelming Mudvayne though. Such is the life of most casters on small maps.

R2 - RNGesus favored no team in this round. Odin dead procs on one side and Leg aim proccing stop on the other. If mudvane can keep it up he'll win due to range advantage and the ninja going down early. It's hard for high SP teams to bring back a unit with no recovery options without raise 2.

R3 - Truelight's archer double turning the geomancer for the rare ghetto stop status effect made me aware fo both teams lack of haste and slow. The demi redirect near the end sealed it for Mudvayne despite him taking out Truelight's Ninja early.

GG. Questionable choices by the AI at the end. Why let the same unit redirect 3 spells in such a short time span?


Anti Tank vs Holy Absorb Mime
Betting on mime despite Andante winning last year's tournament.

R1 - GG Bridge. Not the map's fault this time around. Berserk gun and crossbow isn't too great on most maps. If the archer had targeted correctly he still probably would've hit his own team. Andante almost made a comeback with 3 units against 4 plus mimicry.

R2  - GG berserk Romanda gun. More range means you're more likely to hit a wall or teammate. If it had been stone gun this would've been more interesting.

GG. Not at all like my map situation since Andante's loss here was due to his berserk 8 range gunner and not maps without fair starting positions. Funny that we face in R2.
Some day my people will be free.

Kashkabald

Gonna stream more in about 2 hours, at 11pm BST, at http://twitch.tv/kashkabald

Today's matches are 28 to 33, so:

gatebuster202 vs VireBlaze
dw6561 vs Celdia
FDQuinn11 vs RedWorld
skiploom188 vs xAltairSpartanx
Alfa vs Heroebal
jaaster vs silentkaster

NOTE:
I will restart the stream after each match to avoid spoilers and easily seperate the recordings for Youtube. Because of this the recordings should be uploaded much faster, too.

Barren

So whose doing matches 21 - 27?

I can always rearrange the videos in chronological order if I have to
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?