Final Fantasy Hacktics

A new patch is being worked on! Everybody's help will be appreciated :D

Quote from: "karsten"- making monsters a real treat

Maybe it'd be more interesting if they were a real threat?

ops  

I had a feeling some super-patch was in the pipeline that covered all of the discussions on this forum. Should be interesting.

I'll start making a small overwiev so that people can start talking and suggesting.

Squire-none
Chemist-none
Knight-Level 2 Squire
Archer-Level 2 Squire
Priest-Level 2 Chemist
Wizard-Level 2 Chemist
Monk-Level 2 Knight
Thief-Level 2 Archer
Oracle-Level 2 Priest
Time Mage-Level 2 Wizard
Geomancer-Level 3 Monk
Lancer-Level 3 Thief
Mediator-Level 2 Oracle
Summoner-Level 2 Time Mage
Samurai-Level 3 Knight, Level 4 Monk, Level 2 Lancer
Ninja-Level 3 Archer, Level 4 Thief, Level 2 Geomancer
Calculator-Level 4 Priest, Level 4 Wizard, Level 3 Oracle, Level 3
Time Mage
Dancer(Female Only)-Level 4 Lancer, Level 4
Geomancer
Bard(Male Only)-Level 4 Summoner, Level 4 Mediator
Mime-Level 8 Squire, Level 8 Chemist, Level 4 Geomancer, Level 4
Lancer, level 4 Mediator, level 4 Summoner
so this is the regular state.

first of all let's list the classes that might be candidates to joing/swap in the troops.

I would mention:

Red Mage
Blue Mage
Necromancer
mistic knight.
Berserker

the classes that are the least interesting/useful are:

mediator
bard/dancer
mime

the classes that are too good as they are or broken in combos:

samurai
ninja
calculator

skills that need to be toned down/taken away:

hamedo
blade grasp
abandon
the move mpup/mp switch combo
2 swords with Knightly swords
Math skill
brave/faith modifying skills

did i forget something?

You probably are missing something since there's so much stuff that needs to be reworked, but anyways. I think that replacing calculator with blue mage is enough for the generics (until we can add new spots at least). The other new classes can just come as special characters.

I don't have a problem with mediators, bards/dancers, or mimes with the way they are in the sigma patch. They all are capable of being useful at some point. Same with samurais, ninjas might need some sort of powering down, probably just slightly in PA.

Knight swords should be required two hands, and chaos sword still needs a power reduction, even with autoberserk on it. Blade grasp and math skill should just be banished to another dimension never to be seen again, unless we could make blade grasp something like 1/2 your brave. I'm fine with all the other skills, although mp up paired with switch can be cheap. I suppose it would be okay to get rid of move mp up, but I wouldn't want to unless we had to.

As for brave/faith alteration skills, I definitely don't want to do anything to them. If we could make it so brave/faith couldn't be changed permanently though I'd be all for it.

what does VK stands for? Very Karsten?

By the way, you might want a forum section or this can get messy.

He said VK= Vincent/Karsten. Apparently you aren't cool enough to be included in the initials.

oops, I took that line for his signature :s

Karsten:  First and foremost, this patch is replacing FFT Sigma, regardless of what the name is, so I suggest that this thread be stickied in the FFT Sigma section.

Secondly, even though we are starting over from scratch, I believe that FFT Sigma had many good traits. However, since we are working together you'll need to look over the changes that I have previously made:

http://auritech.byethost13.com/viewtopic.php?p=774#774


Easiest thing would be to go through the list, change what you don't like, and send it to me, right?

Since this is going to replace it, why don't we just start working off Vincent's sigma patch? A lot of work as been put into it, and it already has a lot of good changes that we'd probably want anyways.

Even though this is one of my favorite abilities, a lot of problems are had with two swords/ninja. maybe it should be removed altogether.  Let ninjas be special because of throw and their speed.  Don't diminish the power of katanas now that ninjas no longer have two swords.  It hurts me to say it, but that may be the only way to cure the two sword problem.  Maybe it can be replaced with inherent speed save.  Just a suggestion.

Eh? I'm not sure I understand you. Did you check that link whilst I was updating it or something? According to FFT Sigma, katana are not 2-Swordable, but are 2-Handable and Samurai have innate Two Hands. Ninja are weaker and Ninja Swords are weaker.

Conversely, may you have posted in the wrong section?


Karsten: Shall we move this thread to FFT Sigma section, or make a new section called "VK Patch"?

i think it should be a new section because you worked hard on Sigma.

I thought this patch was starting off from scratch....I believe that the current sigma patch has done alot to balance the classes, but if we are starting off from the beginning, the same old complaints are going to come up, ala calculator to powerful, two swords/holy swordsman/drawout too good.  If the patch is starting from sigma, ignore my last post, but if not maybe an alternative would be to remove two swords.  Like I said, it is one of my favorite abilities, but I feel the majority comes before my own preferences.

i haven't disappeared, just busy. since we'll start over from vincent's patch, i'll study everything over again.

so i've started checking the sigma patch. so, i would suggest these changes (to be debated, obviously):

Blade grasp is still a problem and so is brave/faith modification. My solution?
taking away all the skills that mod br/ft. that way blade grasp can be effective at MAX at 72%. strong, but not

broken.

also taking away the ways to lower faith makes magic more dangerous/people with blade grasp or mp switch less godly.


taking away the brave faith modification would make mediator a redundant class. We might fuse oracle with mediator

and free a slot for red mage (we have great sprites for it, right? :P

would still be strong, but not making you immortal.


another problematic skill is draw out. It's good, damn good. and it should be kept like that. What we need is to

balance it out, to make it a skill that won't be abused. Lowering MAs would make everything too weak. also raising

the katana's prices might not help much. so in the end i came out with this idea:

let's make ALL the katanas beside the first 2 rare poach prizes. what do you guys think? that would make poeple use

more poach too, and give all the katanas an air of preciousness.


for what concerns blue mage, i would go as follows:

equips staff, rod and knives. swords are too good with gather power.

skillset (deeply tested in my own patch):

choco cure
choco esuna
choco meteor (at high lvs will strice for less than 200dmg)
spirit of magic
thunder soul
aqua soul
wind soul
ice soul
blow fire
mimic titan
gather power
dischord (the skill that takes away positive status)
-add something else here-

this would make the unit versatile and not overpowered. Also we might consider innate monster skill/train?

concerning monsters the work seems good. maybe giving to lv2 and 3 bombs blow fire, can give them some extra range

and a way to cure better. driads and morbols need to get speed and height 2 attacks. maybe the morbol's ability lick

and goo can be made to have a range like a samurai sword, making them mildly effective.

i would change swordskills too. the mp used are too little. after all just one blow from those ones is enough to

change the battle completely. in my patch they went like this:


SWORDSKILLS

Stasis Sword - 20MP
Split Punch - 15MP
Crush Punch - 15MP
Lightning Stab - 35MP
Holy Explosion - 40MP

or maybe higher, i don't remember. this would make the orlandu's ( :P

guns can be broken too. is it possible for them not to have 100% accuracy? 5 gunners can kill almost everything on 8

square distance on most maps.

mmmh. next is beowulf. good, maybe to much. we might make him useful but less broken by exchanging his and zalbag's

skillset?

reis can be godly too. maybe some touches to her stats?

so far i can't think of anything else. remeber guys these are just my view on the topic and i'd like ALL of you to

elaborate and find suggestions!

Good info.  Concerning brave/faith manipulation, if human skills that modify brave and faith are removed will the monsters loose the ability to alter it as well.  Also what about the abilities cheer up and scream?  Without them, Ramza becomes a little bland.

hm for Archer perhaps make them have Leg and arm Aim also Tailwind? for Beowulf make him have a CT for everything perhaps ?

Brave/faith modification - Good idea. We'll have to get some replacement skills for some of the monsters. Replace Cheer Up with Invitation and Scream just lose its brave boost. We can just ignore the fact that it says '0Br' over Ramza's head...

As for making Oracle better, we can just give it Def Up. Fits well, right?  The skillset just needs higher accuracy. With Invitation given to Ramza and all br/fa mod skills removed, might as well just erase talk skill completely.

Ev/2 for all items could work, though we should scale the items (except mantles) so that the first are about the same and the last are half the regular evasion. The evasion will require a spot of tweaking. Speaking of items, are we able to override the duplication glitch or is that still a problem?

For katana, let's raise the price for all of them as well as what you have mentioned. If they are hard to get, no one will want to sell them at their current price.  I rarely poach, but making katana rare poach only sounds like a good plan.  Don't make Masamune or Chirijiraden rare poaches unless you plan on severely reducing their power.

Blue Mage, I have two questions: Can Blue Magic be used with other units? How are the monster stats and monster skills going to be adjusted?  Assuming you haven't addressed these issues already, Gather Power will make Knight/Samurai absolutely murderous and Blue Magic either will phail on Blue Mage or the monsters will 1HKO stuff.  As for innate Monster Skill and Train, sure.  Monster Skill is pretty sad anyway (we'll need to change its description if we are keeping it).

The skills, as you know, are rather glitchy on Blue Mage. I don't know about most skills, but did you require a suggestion for "-add something else here-"? How about Ultima2 just for kicks.  Unless, of course, we are not making the skills learnable Blue Mage style only.  

Which reminds me, Red Mage should replace Calculator and require 4 Black Mage and 4 White Mage.  Blue Mage should replace Mediator. Now, should Summoner and Blue Mage require lv3 or lv4 in the previous class (Time Mage/Oracle)?

Swordskills, idk about MP.  Night Sword will also require a boost in MP Cost, but since Gafgarion is using it early on, how about giving him a huge MPM and/or MPC boost?  We don't need him using Dark Sword just after one Night Sword.

And Orlandu really needs to NOT have either Lightning Stab or Holy Explosion, especially if he still has Night Sword.  I don't care that he's called T.G. Cid, he's completely overshadowing Agrias!  That old fart.
/rant

As for Archers, they are at the bottom of the tree for a reason. What I mean is, Archers are all about power and speed, not versatility. With a boost in those two stats (as well as perhaps Longbow and Crossbow power), Archer should be set.  If Archer gets innate Concentrate, then Arrow Guard should be easy to obtain.

Archer skillset: If Charge is boosted as I had done in FFT Sigma, their skillset should be fine.  I had Wezaleff pull off a Charge+20 on Gafgarion. All it requires is good timing (and Don't Move later on).

Guns are a problem? We should either make them be obtained later or just make them weaker.

Beowulf and Reis are too good? You sure? Hmmmm

In case I didn't say earlier, everything I have said here is completely open to debate. (Except nerfing Orlandu ofc... /rant)

I don't want to remove the brave/faith alteration abilities or mediator. Isn't there some way we could make it so the effects weren't permanent?

Blade grasp would still be too good even at 72%.

The evasion reduction sounds good, even though half is a bit much. I think it should still be able to get up to around 70-75%.

I'm fine with knight swords, but the chaos blade still needs to be reduced. If its being held with two hands at 40WP it's going to kill pretty much anything it hits.

For draw out I think it just needs to be weakened and the samurai's should be given more MA. Or is there a good formula we could put in instead, like one that requires both PA and MA. That way neither wizards or knightscould do a lot with DO but samurai's could (with a little more MA). Either way I don't like katanas being limited like that(probably because I don't like poaching ).

I liked the way the blue mage was in the sigma patch for the most part. If he hits to hard with a sword we could just reduce his PA some because I think a sword works well with them. As for the skillset I don't think we are going to want something like gather power, and dischord would hardly ever be useful, And in the sigma patch I thought giga flare, dark whisper, and blaster were too good, so I was thinking:
choco cure
choco esuna
choco meteor
mimic titan
thunder bracelet
wind soul
bad bracelet
goblin punch
self destruct
calm spirit
death sentence
drain touch
blow fire
ultima
and a couple of the other abilities you suggested (I don't remember what goo or magic spirit do)

Also we need to decide on some way to limit these like mp cost.

The swordskills suggestion sounds good to me, but crush punch needs to be given a different status effect, add dead is a bit too potent. Also crush punch needs to cost more since its the better skill. And nothing else should be given mp boosts since it makes giving them mp costs in the first place pointless.

Archers are fine as they are with innate concentrate, even if bowguns still suck they just need some more wp.

Agreed on guns, but I don't know what to do with them. The first two guns are fine as they are though.

Everything except ninja and thief just needs to have its range reduced to 3. Squire is one of the best classes in the game now and it doesn't need 4 movement.

As for Beowulf, I don't know what to do. Maybe mp cost and Ct on his skills. I don't really want to just throw them away. And I never use Reis so I wouldn't know about her.

I want the jobs as they were in the sigma patch, but I thought adding innate magdef up to priests, and innate secret hunt to thiefs would be good ideas.

For Zodiac monsters: Hashmalum needs some kind of innate ability in order to present a challenge maybe just counter, the ones counted as males need to be changed to monsters when we get into the ENTD files, and most of them should have their braves raised (except Altima) so they can make use of their abilities, especially if they have something like critical quick or meatbone slash.

I really like the katana idea. If minotaurs carries elixirs, why not a murasama?

The archer needs status inflicting abilities IMO. However that would probably require to create new skills considering only Mustadio's skillset have some.

Maybe even free crap abilities like:

Poison Strike: Weapon damage, Weapon Range, 25% Poison + 25% Sleep, 0MP, 2 Clockticks.

That would already make it WAY better than some stupid charges. Although they can be deadly if used properly when the battle starts.

10 Speed Unit vs 10 Speed Unit
Enemy moves forward: 20CT
Ally moves forward, Charge +7; BAM!
+10 & +20 are completely worthless though.  Err, I think Charge +7 will be able to launch before it's too late but I'm not sure.

If you want to fix beowulf, lower chance to hit. Charge Time would be ridiculous as no CT is there to compensate te fact that it can only hit 1 enemy.

I feel that Reis would be a highly debateable character because Yes her Stat Growth Is crazy but the skillse in my opinion is mediokre since one of your precious unit spots have to be waste on a Dragon to make her worthwhile well its just my opinion >_<

But archers, I feel even if the Ct is lowered I still would never use them because you really want a skillset worthwhile and useful enough to be used as a second skillwithout being cheap.

Also again for Beowulf I thought it over and I believe there is NO reason to tone hime down because you recieve him so ate that mosly no status effects will work except DONT MOVE on bosses but perhaps you should make it harder for you to recieve Beowulf and Reis like make a special skill set for Sinogue that would make the battle harder.

Beowulf isn't tough because of what he does to bosses, it's what he does to enemies that counts. His petrifying move almost always worked for me whenever i'd use him.

But at the tim you get him !BAM! your at the final boss but of course this is just my opinion

But you forgets teh deep dungeon...

I'll look again in order to have fixed Brave/Faith.

I may also suggest that as ramza is the main protagonist, we could transfer the mediator's skills to him.

Oh, for archers; another solution:
Give pretty much all bows & crossbows higher power, or one or more status effects

Like Ice Bow could be Ice elemental and have 25% to add Stop OR Slow.

Yoichi bow could have 25% Chance to cast fire 4.

Dunno, just ideas.

That sounds good for Ramza, it might be a few too many skills though. Also while I'm thinking about it that one DO move that works like earth slash needs to be reduced to 5 range like earth slash. I think the long bows are good as they are, but status effects on crossbows sounds like a good solution.

Quote from: "Austin"...Blade grasp would still be too good even at 72%.

The evasion reduction sounds good, even though half is a bit much. I think it should still be able to get up to around 70-75%....

The swordskills suggestion sounds good to me, but crush punch needs to be given a different status effect, add dead is a bit too potent. Also crush punch needs to cost more since its the better skill. And nothing else should be given mp boosts since it makes giving them mp costs in the first place pointless.

Well, Blade Grasp still needs to be changed so that it doesn't block arrows/bullets, but idk what to do with it.

Abandon+Feather Mantle+Crystal Shield = 80%; rare items are even higher. Or were you talking about magic evasion?

Are you suggesting that Gafgarion as an enemy should only be able to attack you once (or worse, none) with Night Sword? For MP cost to matter to Orlandu, we'll have to raise it real high....

Quote from: "Zodiac"I'll look again in order to have fixed Brave/Faith.

I may also suggest that as ramza is the main protagonist, we could transfer the mediator's skills to him.

Oh, for archers; another solution:
Give pretty much all bows & crossbows higher power, or one or more status effects

Like Ice Bow could be Ice elemental and have 25% to add Stop OR Slow.

Yoichi bow could have 25% Chance to cast fire 4.

Dunno, just ideas.

Yeah that seems like that would be fit for him

Maybe for Archers bow one of them should give Charm like Cupids Bow  

Abandon+Feather Mantle+Crystal Shield = 80%; rare items are even higher. Or were you talking about magic evasion?

Are you suggesting that Gafgarion as an enemy should only be able to attack you once (or worse, none) with Night Sword? For MP cost to matter to Orlandu, we'll have to raise it real high....

Basically I just wanted to say don't get too crazy with reducing stuff(and I meant for phys. evade to be able to get to 70% or so with shields and mantles added up). As for night sword just put its mp cost at like 5-10 mp and give it to no one but Gafgarion. I think Orlandu can manage.

Ah k. I'd also prefer to just remove Night Sword from Orlandu, but I recall lots of opposition to that suggestion.

And as for Charge, I think it should stay a power skillset. I'd rather see a completely new class, say 'Hunter,' have these nifty Poison shots and such. Alternatively, we could make most crossbows add status and most longbows cast magic. I like that solution best.

Ah yes, and where does berserker fit in to all of this. You were still leaning toward that class, right Karsten?

Alternatively, we could make most crossbows add status and most longbows cast magic. I like that solution best.

That sounds good to me too.

Does it apply also to the psp version?

because I have a suggestion for onion knight.

Nope, just psx.

why not make two versions of some skills since certain monsters skills use a monster formla anyway other than the glitchy look that makes the skills really weak when used by humans... [ulmaguest looks glitchy when used by humans, but if you swap out bio2's gfx look for the one for ulmaguest it then looks like a spellcast instead of swinging out a glitchy knife. (thats just an example)]

by the way if anyone wants to replace some skills that use the sword swing animation, bite, beak, eye gouge and choco attack can be replaced with the skill right above "potion" which is actually "Attack" and the name attack is visible too (i dont know why its not listed in the patcher but oh well) all monsters iniial skill uses the same damage formula anyway, and now u can make the tree monsters use attack too.

Making different skills automatically prevents us from learning blue mage style.

Blue Mage is all about versatility. However I'd make skills 2 times stronger while giving monsters 2x less MA... I'm sure this would balance more things for the Blue Mage and Mind Break wouldn't be so useless on monsters anymore.

thing about monster skills is they tend to look really glitchy if used by humans... however if you make the new skill you could probably swap it with the old one... the monster would use a different animation, however then both human and monster could use them without looking weird?

Quote from: "Zozma"thing about monster skills is they tend to look really glitchy if used by humans... however if you make the new skill you could probably swap it with the old one... the monster would use a different animation, however then both human and monster could use them without looking weird?

the ones i mentioned are all fine, just a minor glitch with gather power.

for what concerns blue mage skills being weak on blue mage, i think that it is a great point. blue mage shouldn't be a powerhorse or good class; it should be a weak class in wich you change to learn skills that are more useful later on, on other classes as secondary. (at least IMHO).

i like really a lot the idea of status/elemental attack for the archers. i think we should look on it.

blade grasp at 72% is not that bad actually. even by dividing evasion on all items/2 you can reach more than 80%...

about ultima2 on blue mage, it can be nice, but you would get it only in the last battle or being able to learn it too? gather power too, can't target someone else... shall all the abilities be learnable only or buyable too? in this case all ultima might go to 1200 and gather power 1000?

you should make ultima2 available by Monster skill for wildbows

I say all Blue Mage abilities be learnable Blue Mage style only.   Wildbow monster skill as Ultima2 is a HUGE step up from Please Eat. Still, I only said Ultima2 because I thought Blue Mage should have access to one of the last boss's skills. Or we could put on another really rare skill? If you need that slot to be used for something else, by all means.

But if you end up with an open slot...

I wonder if you could make a simple "Provoke" skill. All you'd have to do is flag the caster as "critical". Then the enemies would turn on him, right? Not relevant to Blue Mage or anything but for a Knight or something maybe?

Maybe we should just use giga flare instead? It needs to be weaker than it was in the sigma patch though. As for blade grasp it really just needs to be gotten rid of. We already have weapon guard and abandon for increasing evasion and those work just fine, so there isn't much point in trying to fix blade grasp anyways.

I agree with gigaflare being top dog.  Blue Mage needs no more powerful abilities.  Blue Mage will be cheap with either gather power or Ultima 2 before the end.  The ultima that I believe need to be addressed is the first one.  Unless it was changed in Sigma, it was totally useless in the original.  No spell that hard to get should be that weak.  Maybe it can be changed to a spell for another class?

I assume you mean Ramza's ultima right? If so then yeah it was powered up slightly from 23 to 26 whereas lvl 3 black magic is at 21 and lvl 4 is at 28, so I think that's good enough. Even though it is hard to get we don't want Ramza going around blowing everything up with it.

We don't? That's the ONLY spell in his skillset. Plus he has not much good MA multiplier, and equipping Guts for just Ultima as a Black Mage is a waste of time.

Seriously

That's the point, he's not supposed to be super great with it. It's just a long range move he can use to hit an enemy or two for decent damage whenever he isn't close enough to do anything else. You can change it if you want, but I thought it did well enough, especially if you equip a genji gauntlet and a rune blade or two.

Concerning the Necromancer dilemma:

For now, why don't you just make it so the Necromancer can use a spell that acts as Raise (or Raise 2), that also Charms or Invites , casts Berserk, and gives the unit the status effect Undead? Hell, maybe it'd be possible to turn off the "Reverse Undead"-thing for the spell, so you could raise the already Undead.

Together with some attack spells/status-inflicting spells (Zombie/Blood Suck), an intrinsic Resist Undead and Resist Blood Suck, it could be a very playable class, while sticking strictly to the necromancer archetype. It might be a little too unbalanced to be in the job roster, though, so maybe make it a Special one.

Some specifics:

• Job name: Necromancer; skill set name: Seid (//http)
• Oracle-like growth, but with a lesser HP growth.
• Able to equip Dictionaries, Robes, Clothes, and Hats.
• Intrinsics: Half Dark, Weak to Holy, Resist Zombie, Resist Blood Suck
• Possible skills:
  
  • Spawn Undead: Like Raise, but the target becomes *Undead and [Charmed/Invited]. This can also be used to revive the already Undead.
  • Spawn Undead 2: Like Spawn Undead, but the target is also *Berserked. This can also be used to revive the already Undead.
  • Spawn Vampire: Like Raise, but the target is also *[Charmed/Invited] and Blood Sucked.
  • Dark Ritual: Weapon-based attack that, if successful, also casts Regen on the Necromancer. (If not possible, replace with Drain Touch).
  • Dark Holy
  • Dark Whisper (I've yet to see this used, but the name fits the skill set xd).
  • Look of Fright
  • Nightmare
  • Maybe more?
• Ecclesiastical necromancer sprite for male, and more Vodun-oriented/lesser clothed necromancer sprite for female.

"*" = If possible, could either two or three new status effects be implemented that are just made up of others, for cleanliness' sake? For example, Spawn Undead's status effects would all be combined into one entitiled "Spawn".

this is random but you should make a dictionary that causes blood suck so theres a reason to use books

In the sigma patch all the dictionaries have increased range, wp, and a status effect tacked on, so they're actually pretty good now.

i didnt read all the posts but you could just get rid of all the ladies bags and make higher level weapons.

i created some more harps and axes

Bravo to the riddance of bags.  They are useless.  But this feminine item makes me ask a question.  Is the sexual predisposition still there?  By that I mean that a female character tends to gain more MA than a male character and males tend to gain more PA than a female character.  If it is there, is it possible to remove?

Quote from: "Zozma"i didnt read all the posts but you could just get rid of all the ladies bags and make higher level weapons.

i created some more harps and axes

This really sounds like a good idea, especially since there's only 3 axes in the whole game. And yes the differences between males and females are still there, but I don't know if that can be changed. I don't really want it to though since its the only reason i'd bother to use a female in the first place. The male sprites are just so much cooler.

females get too much extra stuff anyway im all about being even. plus Ill be creating a berzerker class which will be a male character that uses axes... and in my patch the axes use damage formula 2D (PA*WP+Y)
 because for some reason formula 1 as an axe sucks because of the randomness on damage.

Dictionarities contains lots of wordies, so IMO it should cause many bad statuses.

Madlemgen (sp?) could become a killer weapon like the other rare ones, without causing too much damage.

Wizard rods needs ALL to cast some spell, except the first one. I'm pretty sure even BM with 4 PA are stronger barehanded than when wielding a rod.

My Necromancer post is finished, now (maybe 6-7 posts up).

Also, this question may have already been answered, but I'm very new to FFTPatcher: Is it possible to change skill names with it? Also, do I need a separate tool to make it possible to play the finished .BIN file, because I get an error message along the lines of "Can't locate .cue file" when I try to load the .BIN with the PSX emulator?

How about the mace of zeus, which is I believe to be the ultimate rod;  Give it alot of elemental strengthens ala 108 gems.  Right now it gives 2PA and 1MA (unless changed in sigma).  What good does +2PA do for a MA based weapon.

I like the Necro being resistant to dark, but it is weak against holy, which all white spells are now holy elemental; will white magic actually do damage to that character or will the spell be boosted or diminished?  Also I like the thought of necro's having books.  Just imagine one carrying a necronomicon.

Alot of thought is put into the nerfing of Samurai and Ninja.  What about letting them be who they are but making them a special class.  Those classes wouldn't seem so overpowered if you only have one.

Quote from: "huthutchuck"I like the Necro being resistant to dark, but it is weak against holy, which all white spells are now holy elemental; will white magic actually do damage to that character or will the spell be boosted or diminished?  Also I like the thought of necro's having books.  Just imagine one carrying a necronomicon.

Ah, didn't realize that all the Cure spells are Holy-based, now. The Necromancer's healing potential would be ridiculously high, then. Also, giving them the innate Undead status isn't a great idea, either, since Necromancers by definition, are not undead, themselves.

A Necronomicon would be an amazing complement to the class, too. It could strengthen the Dark element, prevent Faith, and maybe have a chance to cast Aspel when used to attack.

A couple more book ideas:

• Grimoire (Adds to MA; can inflict Frog)
• Tome of the Heart (Can inflict Charm)

Good idea.  By the way Dark Whisper is currently a blue mage technique in Sigma, but it can easily be replaced.  Think of it as a dark elemental truth spell in that it's random but does very little damage.  The catch is that it is similar to crush punch.  Any hit has a possibility of adding:dead.

interesting points, really. let's keep up spawning such ideas!

and yes, bags are perfect weapons to be taken away

maybe adding a bow that gives always haste or adds to speed...


by the way, let's keep this great work going and later we'll have to start making decisions for the firstversion of the patch, right vincent?

Hmm... well I can't completely agree with getting rid of the "Talk Skill" in totality. I think it might be a good idea to spread it across the special characters? Quite a few of those are quite useful. To be rid of the whole line seems kind of... a waste, unless you plan on replacing them for new abilities. But combining them with the Oracle, doesn't really sit well with me for some reason...

When did this board get so active? Anyway, time for my two cents:

Provoke is great, but I'm not so sure it will work that way.

If Blade Grasp animation didn't fail, I would disagree with removing it. When we find out how to fix formulas Blade Grasp will be fine, but until then it should hit the bench.

If Blue Mage could learn Ultima2, it wouldn't be before the end, it would be AT the end. We have no good reason to give that skill to any other monster. Ultima(1) is a quick, powerful skill in FFT Sigma; if it's not better than Bolt3, who cares to use it? Might as well keep Screaming...

Necromancer: Does anyone know if Monk's 'Revive' skill revives undead units? If it doesn't work, Necromancer is pretty much screwed at the moment. I know little about Necromancers, but I think of them as undead units. As for that new status, we can't make those at this time IIRC. We do have a nice slotÂ

I do believe that Oracle needs help, one way or another.  I would prefer no charge to their abilities.  It sucks to wait on the possibility of a status effect.  If not the alternative could be to raise effectiveness of the spells.  

Mediator without brave/faith modifiers isn't totally useless but it will hurt.  If we remove human modifiers then look of fright needs to go to or change what it does. I always liked talking an enemy into waiting a turn.  I always wondered what can a person possibly say on a battlefield to get someone to wait and let the other person attack first.  Also a Mediator can talk a mage into berserk.  Very useful.

Karsten, you suggested we start by "1)agreeing on classes available/new and required levels."
How about the following classes at the following levels:


Squire-none
Knight-Level 3 Squire
Archer-Level 3 Squire
Monk-Level 3 Knight
Thief-Level 3 Archer
Geomancer-Level 4 Monk
Lancer-Level 4 Thief
Samurai-Level 4 Knight, Level 5 Monk, Level 2 Lancer
Ninja-Level 4 Archer, Level 5 Thief, Level 2 Geomancer

Chemist-none
Priest-Level 3 Chemist
Wizard-Level 3 Chemist
Oracle-Level 3 Priest
Time Mage-Level 3 Wizard
Blue Mage-Level 4 Oracle
Summoner-Level 4 Time Mage
Red Mage-Level 3 Priest, Level 3 Wizard, Level 2 Knight

Dancer*-Level 4 Lancer, Level 4 Geomancer
Bard*-Level 4 Summoner, Level 4 Blue Mage
Mime-Level 4 Geomancer, Level 4 Lancer, level 4 Blue Mage, level 4 Summoner

*Dancer is still female only, Bard still male only

Once we agree on who is in the job tree, we can decide on stats/innates.
[Edit: Red Mage changed from 4BM/WM to 3BM/WM]

I say Mediator should hit the deck if all br/fa mod skills are disappearing. We changed Persuade in FFT Sigma to avoid problems with fighting Zodiac monsters, and Insult and Mimic Daravon both add effects that Oracle can add.  Yes, Yin-Yang will have higher accuracy; most of the skills are already quick enough.

Ah, I like the new lines! It's  quite orderly in it's appearance, but aren't Red Mages supposed to be a weaker kind of class? As the ultimate reward of the Chemist tree, it seems a bit... weak. Of course at this point, what would normally be a weak class seems to have the equipment and skills prior to make it into a powerhouse. Well, that's just my guess on the whole arrangement. So no Dark Knight or Onion Knight, correct?

Invitation is for Ramza. The other Talk skill that is not covered is Death Sentence. Who shall receive that? Idk

Make one of the blue mage's skills death sentence like in the sigma patch. That solves that.

And I think red mage does need to be available earlier, it seems like a class most suited to the first 2 chapters.

So no Dark Knight or Onion Knight, correct?
Definitely not.

So... Red Mage with lower requirements? Like what? Lv3BM/WM and Lv2 Knight? I thought we were giving Red Mage Short Charge >_>

Or was that because we wanted it to be a special class?

Well even with short charge, it still only has lvl 1 and 2 spells with mediocre ma. So unless we want to improve one of those categories it should be available quicker. As for level requirements, probably just lvl3 blk/wht mage. Lvl 2 knight is kind of just an annoyance as a requirement since you'd only have to be in it for 1 or 2 battles at the most.

I find lvl3 BM/WM + lvl2 Knight perfect.

the Red Mage's stats are basically the average of knight's, WM, and BM.

It can equip swordies and shields so lvl2 Knight is a must.

did the sprites of zodiac and such get completed?

Does anyone else agree that the Chaos Blade's PA should be decreased?

Hellz yeah. At least to 30 maybe less.

probably 30 or 35... no even 35 is too much i think..

Instead of taking bags out, I think we should come up with a good niche for them; make them do something that other weapons don't. That's pretty much what has happened with the other weapon categories right?

The way I see it, you could leave Bade Grasp in so long as your brave could not possibly be permanently above, say 40. But that's going to suck for all the non-broken reaction skills. Making Blade Grasp good by raising brave in battle is actually ok to me. At least there is an in-battle cost to making it worth it. It's the permanent raise that's a worry. And also the fact that you can have mantles and shields to add to the evasion. As I've said before, if there was absolutely no way to start a battle with an evasion above, say 50% then I'd be all for Blade Grasp. But this might require sweeping changes.

Would it be possible to create a spell that turns you into, say, a fully working monster? Essentially, it would be an on-the-fly class change. I'm right in assuming that's not how frog works, and that it's just a sprite change, a power decrease, and the locking of your skills, right?

moldball virus will permenantly turn generics into morbols if im not mistaken?

Quote from: "Zozma"moldball virus will permenantly turn generics into morbols if im not mistaken?

I'm stupid

I liked the thought of a "morphing" class. You'd basically be able to turn into special versions of Frog, Chicken and Morbol. Would probably require the editing of 4 classes though. Ouch.

Anyone ever tried changing Reis into a morbol? I believe it will generate new random stats but I'm not sure. It could also take the existing stats and you could create a morbol god.

Quote from: "Zozma"probably 30 or 35... no even 35 is too much i think..

I think the highest wp weapons should get to is around 25. The best knife has 12wp and the best ninja knife has 15, so stuff like the javelin2 and chaos blade end up outclassing other weapons by way too much.

what would be cooler is if you could change the monster to something else like a dragon. i have an idea if its possible to do that, you could make a special class (actually make special classes that always have the morph skills to morph into the other 2 or 3 forms) it might make random status changes but still you could have a shapeshifter. basically have a Special human unit and a few special monsters (like the ultima demon/holy dragon kind so you can assing that ability auto learned as the first 2 or 3 skills)

Speaking of morphing, now that we have the technology I really think this game needs more Power Rangers in it. Just by adding them the game's 1337ness would increase by like 173%.

Well, Knight Swords and Spear have damage of WP*PA*Brv/100...
So, the Chaos Blade would have and effective WP equal 40*0,72 (max brave) -> 28,8.
BTW, I would also recommend removing Escutacheon II and Javelin II. Such uber rare items are pointless to me...

I find math skill to be fun, and the AI can make a good use of it... Truth be told, if you make the actual 'Red Magic' skill set you've been all talking about the only 'Math-able' skills (I made it apply only to lower level black, white and time magic) it works kinda well...
Of course Math skill can still be used on enemies bosses even if you remove calculator class

One thing one must keep in mind when changing classes and weapons is that all of them must have a purpose and/or a special feature.

Let's look at the standard weapons for now:

Dagger -> Low damage, (speed may increase it as well, as if it would do any good)
Ninja Knife -> Good damage (speed based damage, which works good on ninja actually)
Swords -> Good damage
Knight Sword -> Amazing damage and status bonuses (damage based on brave)
Katana -> Good damage (damage based on brave as well)
Spear -> Better Range (damage based on brave)
Stick -> Good range, damage based on MA
Axes -> high PA, but rely on chance (good for battle skills I believe)
Flail -> Same as axes
Staff -> Reasonable damage, reasonable MA bonuses
Rod -> Lousy damage, great bonuses
Dictionary -> Good range (indirect), lousy damage
Harp -> Like dictionary, but less damage, however apply status
Crossbow -> Lousy damage, good range (anyone could use)
Bow -> Good damage and good range (archer advantage)
Gun -> Fixed damage, great range
Magical Gun -> Amazing range and damage
Bag -> Another 'axe' weapon, with some status bonuses
Silk -> Some extra range, low attack, great evade

If we look at the list we can see what are the traits a weapon can have:
1 - Weapon Power
2 - Range
3 - Damage Formula
4 - Initial/Always Status
5 - Inflict Status
6 - Inflict Skill
7 - Status Bonuses
8 - A combo with some skill (silk with weapon guard, battle skill with guns)
9 - 1 handed/2 handed/Can't be two handed

Can you say all weapons have a purpose now?

Quote from: "Zozma"what would be cooler is if you could change the monster to something else like a dragon. i have an idea if its possible to do that, you could make a special class (actually make special classes that always have the morph skills to morph into the other 2 or 3 forms) it might make random status changes but still you could have a shapeshifter. basically have a Special human unit and a few special monsters (like the ultima demon/holy dragon kind so you can assing that ability auto learned as the first 2 or 3 skills)

That would be sweet as long as the special monsters were suitably unique. I only chose frog/chicken etc because lets face it, having a super chicken run around would be funny.

Your idea IS better but I think choosing monsters that have a vaguely humanoid shape would be preferable. How about the special monsters be palette-swapped versions of the Ultima Demon, Minotaur and Squid classes. For bonus relevance, the same pallette of colours could be used for all the monsters.

Well, Knight Swords and Spear have damage of WP*PA*Brv/100...
Oops, forgot about that. But there's not really much reason to remove anything (except blade grasp) since we can just weaken it now. And there should be a lot more variety in the weapon types when everything's said and done. Math skill would still be too good to have though, even with low lvl skills, since you could still pull off stuff like protect-all.

Quote from: "Desocupado"If we look at the list we can see what are the traits a weapon can have:
1 - Weapon Power
2 - Range
3 - Damage Formula
4 - Initial/Always Status
5 - Inflict Status
6 - Inflict Skill
7 - Status Bonuses
8 - A combo with some skill (silk with weapon guard, battle skill with guns)
9 - 1 handed/2 handed/Can't be two handed

Can you say all weapons have a purpose now?

Chance of successful hit is another trait that can be thrown into the balance pool. I think we tried this a while ago. Vincent started a thread asking what the unique traits of each category or even individual weapons were. Got some good changes out of that but I think more can be done.

Err... okay. Good discussions guys.

So ummm, is this activity grounds for making a new section? If we are discussing all parts of the game at once, I would find it much easier to be able to check all like posts together. My post I made a few hours ago has been followed with like 15 posts about weapons.

Do we need to repopulate the FFT chat room? Just throwing it out there.

Yeah, we might need to divide the patch up into different forum sections like weapons, classes, etc.

Seems like the site is a lot more lively now though.

There probably should be a new area so we can divide this discussion into orderly topics. How much do you guys want to get done for the super patch? Do you want to wait for formulas?

But we're only at 5 pages Vinc!

Argg0 rarely comes (well at my times at least), Raijinli is often there, melonhead almost always, and I have XChat always open so every time I open the connection I'm automatically logging in.

That doesn't make much people, it was much more lively before.

There's no reason to wait since there's other stuff to start on. Anyways, ideas for a way to divy this up:
items
abilities
jobs
entds
text editing-we dont have it yet but there's plenty to discuss when we do

But we're only at 5 pages Vinc!
Yeah, but at this rate its going to be at 20 in a week or two.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Karsten, you suggested we start by "1)agreeing on classes available/new and required levels."
How about the following classes at the following levels:


Squire-none
Knight-Level 3 Squire
Archer-Level 3 Squire
Monk-Level 3 Knight
Thief-Level 3 Archer
Geomancer-Level 4 Monk
Lancer-Level 4 Thief
Samurai-Level 4 Knight, Level 5 Monk, Level 2 Lancer
Ninja-Level 4 Archer, Level 5 Thief, Level 2 Geomancer

Chemist-none
Priest-Level 3 Chemist
Wizard-Level 3 Chemist
Oracle-Level 3 Priest
Time Mage-Level 3 Wizard
Blue Mage-Level 4 Oracle
Summoner-Level 4 Time Mage
Red Mage-Level 3 Priest, Level 3 Wizard, Level 2 Knight

Dancer*-Level 4 Lancer, Level 4 Geomancer
Bard*-Level 4 Summoner, Level 4 Blue Mage
Mime-Level 4 Geomancer, Level 4 Lancer, level 4 Blue Mage, level 4 Summoner

*Dancer is still female only, Bard still male only

Once we agree on who is in the job tree, we can decide on stats/innates.
[Edit: Red Mage changed from 4BM/WM to 3BM/WM]

I say Mediator should hit the deck if all br/fa mod skills are disappearing. We changed Persuade in FFT Sigma to avoid problems with fighting Zodiac monsters, and Insult and Mimic Daravon both add effects that Oracle can add.  Yes, Yin-Yang will have higher accuracy; most of the skills are already quick enough.

i'm quite agreeing with this, but i think that blue mage should be available almost immediatly, so that people can start learning from monsters earlier.... red mage is perfect i think.


by the way, i was thinking yesterday, that chemist's skillset is utterly boring... i think nobody bothers learning ALL the useless skills like eye drop, maiden kiss and suc, but just head to the remedy/phoenix down/potions... so shall we insert offensive item like chemists had in FFV?

that would make AI controlled chemists far more dangerous... maybe an item that cast a spell,


and also, i think we need a dedicated forum so that we can split the discussions in

job tree/ job innates
skillsets
monster/battle balancements
karsten - vincent - zodiac's chars skillset and discussion
and so on.

this way we risk losing some good posts in the mess

Well, I figured in chapter 1 you aren't missing much storybattle-wise against monsters. However, we could flip-flop Oracle and Blue Mage? Blue Mage just came off to me as a higher tier. I would also say this flip-flop would be grounds for making Oracle a bit better too. I would be against having Blue Mage available at the same time as Knight/Archer though.

Should Chemist have access to an item similar to the balls that Ninja throw? I agree that several items are not used very often; however, Chemist is a healing class and pretty good when used right. Perhaps we should upgrade Chemist to Alchemist?

And I think we have enough activity to deserve a splitting of relevant topics. If nothing else, we can just start threads in FFT Sigma.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Should Chemist have access to an item similar to the balls that Ninja throw? I agree that several items are not used very often; however, Chemist is a healing class and pretty good when used right. Perhaps we should upgrade Chemist to Alchemist?

The fact that Chemists can equip guns already gives them enough of an edge in battles. Besides, does anyone not use Mustadio as a Chemist? Snipe is a good enough secondary skillset to make him excessively useful.

Speaking of chemist, can we make remedy and white magic esuna a cureall for everything?  Let it cure stop, don't move don't act...any stautus effect.  Chocobos can choco esuna  their way out of any status effect, how about give us a chance.  It sucks to watch a unit get stopped and can't do anything about it.

Chemists work well as they are imo, and esuna and remedies curing everything (except death) sounds good. You might want to make them both a tad more expensive (gil and mp wise) if you decide to do this though.

I have my own idea about it. We could make it cure all statuses. HOWEVER, it would be only 70% chance per status or something.

So if you want to cure poison, you better had learned antidote and have some in your inventory because the remedy might not work.

Actually I don't like how everything has 100% to cure, except esuna which is still pretty high. That makes statuses a joke except for the ones you can't cure easily (like blood suck & death sentence)

So I assume it's possible to make items fail. It only makes sense. If a unit can fail in inflicting a status, the opposite should be true as well. Else we'd better make sets like Yin-Yang 100% accurate.

Chemists are good for their infallibility and fixed effects.
I assume a single status removal skill shouldn't fail... Most status, when inflicted, restrict or make a given unit waste 'at least' a single turn, if the skill used to cure it fails as well, that is a lot of wasted time.

As for remedy, another option would it remove status other items don't remove, which would be:
'Oil' (as if it made any difference)
Slow, Don't Move, Don't Act and Stop (which would need better chance to work as well)
Faith, Innocent and Sleep (a possible nerf to oracle, not really needed)
Charm and Invite (not really needed)
Well if it remove time magic effects, it might as well become like FFTA 'bandage' or need another name.

As for Esuna, the chance of failure seems fitting.
An idea that jut popped...
'What if cure could fail too?' "Would strengthen holy elemental make it hit more often?'

I like the idea of remedy being 100% and Esuna having a high but not perfect probability of working.  Neither should "cure" faith or innocent.   Is their a "dispel" spell?  That in FF games has traditionally taken away status effects.

Odd Soundwave

Odd soundwave??? Really.  Man I need to brush up on the FFT bible.  Is it possible to make items more effective if a chemist uses them ala potion =30 but a potion from a chemist = 45.

Deathspell 2 does it, too.

"Deathspell2" and Sound Wave... but... if I recall don't the Oracle's have a basic Dispel move? (Which I am guessing they somehow mistranslated "Dis" for "Death"...) Of course I can't quite recall what it is... I recall using it as a calculator...

Quote from: "LastingDawn""Deathspell2" and Sound Wave... but... if I recall don't the Oracle's have a basic Dispel move? (Which I am guessing they somehow mistranslated "Dis" for "Death"...) Of course I can't quite recall what it is... I recall using it as a calculator...

They do, but I was under the impression that we were talking about things besides Dispel Magic.

uh...what the hell is FFT Sigma? Is it Philsov's patch? Or did I miss something?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it...I'm stupid

yea oracle has dispel also, as asked earlier, monk's revive does revive undead. So is this patch a replacement for sigma 1.2, or should i still bother testing it.

Quote from: "Prinygod"yea oracle has dispel also, as asked earlier, monk's revive does revive undead. So is this patch a replacement for sigma 1.2, or should i still bother testing it.

It's a replacement-in-progress.

I will repair problems with FFT Sigma upon request; however, I do not plan on doing any more patchwork by myself.

I had a cute idea for Jump: Maybe it should also add 'Faith' to the user. You know? You jump high enough to see the face of god?...

...

...


Adding Faith would probably be a net drawback for Lancers (but Jump is plenty powerful in their hands anyway), but now a mage might use it too! I'd totally use a Black Mage with Jump if it did that. Hell, a Lancer with White Magic might be viable too. You'd get some nifty combos out of it, that's for sure.

...
:/

Are you drunk?

For the last time, YES. You have to admit it would be slightly funny. "Just gonna see God 'bout my faith refill. Check you later."