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Scryer Job Discussion (New Format on Front Page!)

Started by LastingDawn, November 16, 2008, 02:24:41 pm

The Damned

November 17, 2008, 03:37:43 pm #20 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Now, as you two have had a bit more experience with such is there anyway for Items to have a % to hit?

I know I'm not one of the two people you talking to, but besides what Lydyn said, I did come across something when I was messing around with Blood Suck and Inflict Status Code. You may know this already, though.

As it turns out, Separate [Single Status] isn't a repetition of All [Single Status]. The difference can be seen easily if you attempt to use former with formula 38, which is the 100% hit one that Fear spells use. Using that formula, I discovered that Separate [Single Status] has a maximum ceiling of 25% when it comes to infliction and cancellation.

25% may be understandably too low for you, but as Lydyn said, that's currently your only other option.

(For the record, Random [Single Status] with formula 38 has a 0% chance always IIRC.)

Quote from: "Havermayer"- Limited amount of items.  Either have a max of ten items each in-battle.  You can stock 99 or more of them outside of battle (so you don't have to keep buying more).

The limitation of in-battle amount of items regardless of how many items you already currently isn't possible, especially for the computer which will always have an infinite amount of items/katanas/weapons to throw at you. (Fucking infinite Elixirs.)

Lydyn's Shuushin had something along the right idea: limit the buying of items/finding of items (though maybe that would make Move-Find Item more viable in areas that aren't Nelveska or Deep Dungeon or Germinas Peak) and have some or most or all of them have to be gotten from poaching monsters.

Quote- Less useful.  Phoenix Down doesn't work 100% of the time.  Potions are half as effective.

Currently we can't do the Phoenix Down thing outside of doing Separate Dead like I said above, and 25% Cancel Dead might be too low for some people's taste.

Potions can be halved, though. I think Lydyn did that for Shuushin as well.

Quote-Chemists are the only ones who can use items as effectively as they are in regular FFT.  Learning item abilities (eg. Phoenix Down) allows you to use them normally.

Your phrasing here is a bit...confusing.

If I get you correctly, then you're basically just suggesting that Chemists be the only one with access to Throw Item by making it only be an Innate and then having Throw Item no longer learnable, then I agree with that also being a step in the right direction.

If you're instead saying, however, that we should somehow make it so that only Chemists could use Items, then they would have to be a special class for special character(s) and that obviates this entire discussion thus far.

Quote- Chemists can have more than 10 items in battle.  How much, I'm not sure.

Um...what?

Quote- Chemists can have a main skill like "Drink" or "mix" (like in FF5).

Good Zord, no.

As much as I like Final Fantasy 5 (I think it's favorite one after FFT even though I've still yet to finish it), FF5 Chemists are as to FFT Calculators as Hyperstorm is to Franklin Richards.

Basically, if FFT Calculators were freaking broken just for their Skill Set (since they literally had nothing else good with their shitty speed and weapon choice and stats), then FF5 Chemists are basically beyond broken since you can the actual class itself has decent stat growth and equipment (not that it matters) on top of Drink/Mix raping everything in its omnidirectional path without mercy.

If you're just suggesting that Items should only be auto-targeting, then I apologize for the mini-rant and will say that I find it interesting despite the fact that might be too much of a limitation if LD is going to both keeping Chemists around in the first place.

QuoteHere's an overview of Chemists in various FF games to give you some ideas:
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/chemist.shtml

Nice. Is there a way to them that fit instead of a fullscreen without having to move back and forth?



Anyway, I wholly support Chemists getting weakened since I myself will getting rid of them entirely.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

LastingDawn

November 17, 2008, 04:28:19 pm #21 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
25% hmm...?  That seems a bit low, I think I'll do a few experiments with these to see what can done with them.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

LastingDawn

November 19, 2008, 04:03:05 pm #22 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Well as posted in the other topic, Chemists have now been replaced with... a name... that deals something with using Summoned Monster Essences... which I need a name for, though this is the spiritual successor to Summoner, it will be replacing Chemist, that means I will need another class to replace Summoner, altogether, but lets get this idea straightened out...  We have 14 free ideas, and they can be for anything! Just link a monster to it and I will try to make it a monster skill and have this item use said skill!
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Archael

November 19, 2008, 04:22:23 pm #23 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
I'll come up with something good to kill summoner off

does it need to be magical?

or any

LastingDawn

November 20, 2008, 05:38:50 pm #24 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
It can be anything, really. Though do you think your "Assassin" idea should replace it?
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

dwib

November 20, 2008, 06:18:46 pm #25 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
Steel Giant Soul would be sick no lie

LastingDawn

November 20, 2008, 06:47:51 pm #26 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Hmm, yes it would be quite interesting, as I said, feel free to come up with the skills you'd like each essence to use {14 in all}.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

boomkick

November 21, 2008, 06:01:29 pm #27 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
Umm... ok

Ghoul's Essence- Uses Death Cold (slow)
Cyclops's (Flotiball) Eye- Casts Circle
Grenade- Casts Small Bomb
Volatile Feather- Casts Feather Bomb
Demonic Evil- Casts Dark Holy (very rare essence poached from monsters)
Damned Soul- Casts Death Sentence
Hammer Charm- Casts Shake Off
Enchanted Stone- Casts Mimic Titan
Blessed Leaf- Casts CLAM spirit :]
Vampire's Tooth- Casts Blood Suck (o.O)
Bloodfiend's Revenge- Casts Lifebreak
Behemoth's Horn- Casts Giga Flare
Behemoth's Pride- Casts Ulmagust
Goblin's Wristband- Casts Turn Punch
Dragon's Soul- Casts Fire Breath

Thats all i got for now.

The Damned

November 21, 2008, 06:05:04 pm #28 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Okay, now I'm confused LastingDawn.

Don't you already have a Blue Mage class?
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Archael

November 21, 2008, 06:08:46 pm #29 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Quote from: "The Damned"Okay, now I'm confused LastingDawn.

Don't you already have a Blue Mage class?


no

the Reliquian is going to be using his skills from Relics

Relics can be bought (the basic ones), stolen, found, mission rewards, etc, but never poached

The Damned

November 21, 2008, 07:20:10 pm #30 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Quote from: "Voldemort7"no

If you meant that literally, then....

Reason I brought the Blue Mage thing up is because it seems like whatever this Monster Essence thing is Blue Mage at this point. So...are Monster Essences used by Blue Mages or another class? I'm confused because this thread started out as just a replacement for Chemist....
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Archael

November 21, 2008, 07:25:02 pm #31 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
WTF is blue mage doing on that job tree

???

I agree with The Damned then

Monster Essence Man cannot co-exist with Blue Mage

too similar

dwib

November 21, 2008, 08:58:23 pm #32 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
i prefer keep blue mage. the only way to save essencedude is to have the souls use abilities that are not neccessarily monster skills, but idk how exciting that even sounds

The Damned

November 21, 2008, 11:57:49 pm #33 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
While I was testing out a few of my own new weapons, I came across two problems that may apply to your patch as well, LastingDawn:

  • I think the reason that I initially thought you couldn't change Shuriken and Bombs into other weapons was because I've still found no way of making the (changed) product show up in the normal Weapon list. So, right now, those six slots are still useless.
  • Similary, you were thinking about using the 14 Items slots for Monster Essence spaces, weren't you? Well I was thinking earlier that due to my own problems with Chemists being worthless assholes that I had overlooked something. So I go to check what formulas are actually available to Items and, unfortunately, it is as I remembered that there are only five "formulas" available to Items, all of them healing ones.(Unless you're Undead, then it harms--I've just now realized "Undead Reversal" only affects AI Behavior, not formula behavior, doesn't it?) So unless all of these moves are supposed to be healing ones, I'm sort of curious if you've found a way to get around this block.


Seriously, is there any information on what the Second Table does? I'm asking (again) because I tried changing it for Fire Ball and seeing if that would make it appear in the Weapons List and changing it for Cashmere and see if that would appear in the Item List and nothing happened....
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Lydyn

November 22, 2008, 12:12:50 am #34 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Lydyn
I think the relative the second table has is mostly for Materia Blade ... I'm not sure though. As in you can change something -to- 20 and have it be the item the skills have to have to use. I could be wrong though.

Edit:
Using glitched classes successfully (Credits: Lasting_Dawn (for testing) )

There is a known problem is changing Item, Throw, Draw Out, Jump, & Geomancy can results in glitches. Changing the skills results in weapon ranged 00% hitting abilities, and changing the skillset results in the learned abilities being based off of the base (squire) learned skills.

However it's been tested by Lasting_Dawn (and I hear SentialBlade as well) that unique characters that are tied to unique base classes (such as Holy Knight, Hell Knight, etc.) are free from this glitch. This is mostly news for any patches that may exclude generics in the future (when one is able to remove the Solider Office), since then they have free reign  to change their classes as they see fit.

LastingDawn

November 22, 2008, 02:21:41 am #35 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Quote from: "The Damned"While I was testing out a few of my own new weapons, I came across two problems that may apply to your patch as well, LastingDawn:

  • I think the reason that I initially thought you couldn't change Shuriken and Bombs into other weapons was because I've still found no way of making the (changed) product show up in the normal Weapon list. So, right now, those six slots are still useless.
  • Similary, you were thinking about using the 14 Items slots for Monster Essence spaces, weren't you? Well I was thinking earlier that due to my own problems with Chemists being worthless assholes that I had overlooked something. So I go to check what formulas are actually available to Items and, unfortunately, it is as I remembered that there are only five "formulas" available to Items, all of them healing ones.(Unless you're Undead, then it harms--I've just now realized "Undead Reversal" only affects AI Behavior, not formula behavior, doesn't it?) So unless all of these moves are supposed to be healing ones, I'm sort of curious if you've found a way to get around this block.


Seriously, is there any information on what the Second Table does? I'm asking (again) because I tried changing it for Fire Ball and seeing if that would make it appear in the Weapons List and changing it for Cashmere and see if that would appear in the Item List and nothing happened....


That is not actually 100% true, the "5 formulas" are actually just an oversight, any formula works, try it for yourself, you can put the 25% weapon strike skills in them (I guess in this case... item... use?) therefore with a 50% chance to use it's skill, or attack with WP they each have their use.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Skip Sandwich

November 22, 2008, 09:13:51 am #36 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
the main problem with asigning items other formulas, is that as items, they can't be assigned Y or X vaules, and if the formula references WP, it'll take the WP from the character's equiped weapon, and not the item, otherwise they work fine.
:EDIT: also, IIRC, you can't change item's range/area, as its tied to the skillset and not the skill.
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"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
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The Damned

November 22, 2008, 10:15:13 pm #37 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
You also can't change the animation for it at the moment as far as I can tell, but that's probably the least of your problems at this point.

*is still using the Truth set to test Gambler without having changed in any animation*
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

LastingDawn

November 23, 2008, 12:53:24 am #38 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
I think Vanya said he found where they were located and just overlooked by Melonhead... along with the Fire, Ice, and Thunder balls.
 I could be wrong though.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

LastingDawn

December 02, 2008, 11:46:26 pm #39 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
In any case... this thread will be getting an overhaul! The Monster Essence User thing, is now something of the past! The new plan is a Rune Mage (name pending anyone have a better name for a Magician that uses Runes, please feel free to come up) they use what was the Item spots, as their primary source of power, they will differ from item by using things that can only be done by them, and healing is Not on  that list.  So if I may have a few ideas for such? Anything with X's will work, if memory serves right, and as you can guess they will each use a new icon for each of the current Item Icons.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!