I need some opinions on Draw Out

[BlackMageShin]

I'm working on my own patch and I want to modify Draw Out to prevent it  being useful only for mage classes. It may not be totally useless on physical classes but it's pointless to use it that way. I believe this change would also make Samurai a viable carrier class.

My solution is to change the formula of the hp damage DO's to Elemental's formula. What do you guys think?

[VincentCraven]

That alternative has been suggested before. Using the Elemental formula makes Draw Out a little worse on Black Mage, but it's still very good on him. Actually, IIRC the best Draw Out abilities will still be better on Black Mage because the formula will turn out to be  [(PA+20)/2]*MA  or something like that. Since PA isn't nearly as important as MA, Samurai's MAM still needs to be boosted so that he is better at using Draw Out as say, Geomancer. Samurai is then effective at casting magic, but his low MPM hinders his magic casting ability.

[karsten]

i'm working on my personal patch and i find extremely easy to limit draw out by putting crazy high prices on them.

[Xifanie]

I'd put a charge time...

[VincentCraven]

karsten: crazy prices on the katana, right? Just making sure you didn't make Draw Out itself cost money.

I just think Draw Out should be toned down. High price katana is a nice idea too.

[Kourama]

A good idea would be to just give Draw Out the Geomancy formula lower the K value and give Samurai higher MA multipliers and extremely low MP growth/multipliers. That would make Samurai best at using the Draw Out abilities then you could boost the prices of katanas (which was already suggested) and you have a more balanced skill set I think.

[karsten]

karsten: crazy prices on the katana, right? Just making sure you didn't make Draw Out itself cost money.

I just think Draw Out should be toned down. High price katana is a nice idea too.

already tried and works.... when you PRECIOUS 50.000 gil katana is at a stake, you avoid using it for trifle battles or when there's no need, right?

[Asmo X]

You could balance it much more tightly by only being able to hold a certain number of Katanas or something like that. Money is an infinite resource after all.

The ideal number for me would be 2 spare of each katana at the current breakage rate.

[BlackMageShin]

So, in the end I decided to use the holy sword formula for hp damage Draw Out.

Turns out that IT WORKS LIKE A CHARM.

Why using that formula is great:

-First off, you have to set Y=0 to avoid broken damage.

-Second, a very interesting thing happens...the WP used by the formula is not the WP of the equipped weapon, but the WP of the correspondent katana in the stock.

-third, for some reason I don't know, using that formula makes katanas break much more often. There's no need to raise katana price because you're gonna rebuy them a lot, trust me.

-another side effect of this formula...the DOs that add a status now will do it everytime, at least I never saw it fail. It can't be just my luck. 100% status effect is tolerable IMO, better than broken damage.

-samurais are not useless anymore. For the first time ever I was using a samurai over a ninja in my playthrough. I must confess that ninja's PA multiplier is nerfed in my patch, but whatever. lol.

There you have it, a balanced PA based Draw Out. MA based Draw Out never made sense to me, samurai is a physical class. I mean, Imagine PA based summon magic, that wouldn't make any sense, would it?

[Xifanie]

:O That's right, it does the same with weapons: 100% Add status.

Actually that sounds really great...

You know why? Because with the samurai having innate Two hands, that means DO will cause half the damage of a normal physical attack. So, in the end, it won't be really broken! Except that katanas are normally Brave based.
So a 50 Brave samurai with innate two hands will cause the same damage as using Chirijiraden for area effect except that's its very liekly to break.

Great find BMS.

[Austin]

We finally found a solution. Yay!! This calls for the super happy face emoticon  

[VincentCraven]

BS, you're my hero.

[Asmo X]

Yeah this is a great fix. Nice job.

The only potential issue I can see is Muramasa. With 100% chance of status infliction this skill could be extremely over-powered. Drop WP to compensate perhaps? Or maybe change the range to 2v3?

[VincentCraven]

No kidding.　Perhaps just Death Sentence?

[Asmo X]

That would be the most sensible fix, yes. It's just a shame that we can't have both. It was an interesting combo.

Also, should Asura and Koutetsu have their WP increased? They're low damage AND have no interesting effects. I feel sorry for them

[VincentCraven]

Wait a minute, this means that DO is PA based and not MA based! So much for Genji Gauntlet being useful for Samurai

And we probably need something like increased range for Kotetsu or better yet just another status.

[NeedsMoreNoise]

Wait a minute, this means that DO is PA based and not MA based! So much for Genji Gauntlet being useful for Samurai

And we probably need something like increased range for Kotetsu or better yet just another status.

Increased range sounds better, to me.

[BlackMageShin]

Wait a minute, this means that DO is PA based and not MA based! So much for Genji Gauntlet being useful for Samurai

And we probably need something like increased range for Kotetsu or better yet just another status.

Genji Gauntlet is PA +2/MA +2, so it's useful.

Oh and another thing...Limberry's dificulty is borderline insane now, thanks to Elmdor's uber PA and 100% status from Muramasa. N-Kai armlets will help against confusion, but then Celia and Lede will screw you.  

[huthutchuck]

I never went after him anyway, that damned hamedo.  I always attacked the assassins.  With the new formula, will that also mean that draw out will have the same amount of damage regardless of class?

Another suggestion.  Do ALL the swords have to have the same formula.   Let some be MA based, some PA based and/or some PA/MA based.  That way no other class will be a superior carrier. Some classes may have the PA or the MA But none will have both like the Samurai except maybe geomancer.

[Raijinili]

Since Craven is linking to this topic, it should be pointed out that a Monk with Draw Out and Attack Up will do nearly twice as much damage as a Samurai, due to it being bare-handed.