Blue Mage, The Monster Gazer
Well this is a class which requires no introduction, this is the classic Blue Mage! As we all know the game has a "learn after hit" command in each skill, therefore the possibility of a Blue Mage is... well it's more then a possibility, now the hard part of this is choosing the 16 skills the Blue Mage should have, and what reactions, supports, etc. It should have. These are what is currently on the list, but if anyone happens to have any other ideas, even new skill ideas, I could implement for said monster, I would be all ears.
Eye Gouge (1.3) - Goblin
Choco Cure - Chocobo
Spark - Explosive
Cat Kick - Cuar
Mind Blast - Mind Flare
Wind Soul - Living Bone
Drain Touch - Gust
Circle - Plague
Calm Spirit - Trent
Triple Thunder - Hydra
Blaster - Vampire
Hurricane - King Behemoth
Ice Bracelet - Blue Dragon
Triple Attack - Hyudra, Hydra, Tiamat
Blow Fire - Minitaurus
Self - Destruct - Band of Abilities and Blue Mage Crystal
Aww i wanted the Blue Mage to do Dark Holy from the skeletons.
Instead of Cat Kick, maybe give him blaster.
Spirit of Life from the Trents
Mimic Titan from the Minotaurs
Giga Flare from Behemoths
Triple Thunder from Tiamat
Choco Meteor from Red Choco
Flame Attack from Grenade
Ultima???
Yeah i think im going over the limit here
hmmm
I'm seeing alot of damage skills
Did you remove Workers from the game LD?
If you didnt it would funny to see a character use dispose.
Ouch, you are correct, Voldemort, of course these moves can be altered, and the whole of the move set changed, also interesting ideas Boomkick, but Ultima... eh, Ultima only appears in the Minwu Orb, and that's a lvl. 2 one. I can't see why any normal monster, or human for that matter would use Ultima on you. Spirit of Life is anther revive skill, which... hmm, I'm not sure what I want to do with yet.
I'm not a fan of Goblin Punch. Even if it's close-range only, I'm really not a fan of Shock-esque moves.
That said, the list looks good. A lot different from my Blue Mage, but that's because I think my monsters are different too.
For being mostly damage techniques (which I can understand why), it's actually pretty "balanced" with little overlap. There is a bit of overlap between Leaf Dance, Triple Attack (which is superior) and Wave Around (which is superior to both of them).
Triple Attack could be subbed out for Triple Thunder and Leaf Dance for either Protect Spirit or Clam Spirit. Other than that, looks good.
Hmm, those all sound like good ideas, but wouldn't Triple Thunder and Blow Fire mesh then?
going to point out that Spirit of Life (1.3 version) is incredibly strong
it might make the skillset itself the ultimate thing to have on any job
That in itself would be a problem, I don't want people to Have to carry this around. Probably won't do that then.
^ Yeah. 1.3 Spirit of Life is kinda what makes (1.3) Woodman worth using.
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Hmm, those all sound like good ideas, but wouldn't Triple Thunder and Blow Fire mesh then?
I can't say I see how.
Triple Thunder is a Lightning Elemental thrice-attacking, random-targeting attack with a cross-shaped target and decent range. Blow Fire is a Fire-elemental attack that single targets and has a linear limitation that doesn't extend past two hexes.
If anything, Spark is (far) closer both of them than they are to each other and Spark isn't very close to either of them.
Right, right... not sure what I was thinking, ah, I confused Triple Thunder for Thunder Bracelet. Yes, you're right. But MA * 3 on a human isn't really anything to write home about... so yeah, that'll go. Calm Spirit it is then.
Wouldn't it be extremely easy to learn all skills by just inviting monsters, breeding for certain ones, and then just attacking your BM with desired skill?
Why not let him learn mind flare from the squilarkens.
I heard that all skills learned must by casted on by a enemy. That is what i learned from experience of Zodiac. (i think)
Alright Zephyr... there is no inviting in Mercenaries so there's no chance you'll have a controllable Ally that has Blue Magic.
And DarthPaul... they do have Mind Blast... it's in their skillset right there, hehe.
Also, no, they can be on your team, you just couldn't teach your units Zodiac because they were your allies, and you can't hit Allies with it. An interesting thought would be to run into a Summoner and cast Zodiac on them with... a Knight or something, that should teach them Zodiac, I'd believe.
Oops how did I overlook that.
Quote from: "Zephyr"Wouldn't it be extremely easy to learn all skills by just inviting monsters, breeding for certain ones, and then just attacking your BM with desired skill?
err I dont think you can invite in mercenaries
you only control 2 (+1?) people in entire patch
Ohh right right my mistake
If that where the case though the whole inviting and breeding plays into the tactical element.
I disagree
I think being limited to 2 setups forces you into more tactical thinking than breeding the most powerful things you can get your hands on pre-battle
I am glad invitation / breeding is not gonna be in Merc
the entire thing being basically a 2 man (3 man with gaff) challenge is the big appeal here
I hope LD keeps it very limited throughout the whole thing
and doesnt chicken out near the end and give us 3 guests per battle or something
I never said it was more tactical than the Mercs setup just that as a concept it is a strategical move to breed what you need to get the moves you need for the blue mage. Though Mercs is gonna make you work for the moves you learn which of course gives it the edge in awesomeness over a Blue Mage in vanilla or a standard patch.
I say give Calm Spirit or Clam Spirit or whatever it's called, in the vein of Big Guard and the like. Perhaps change it so it adds protect and shell and slap a steep mp cost/charge time on it.
EDIT: Oh wait, you're doing Calm spirit. Nvm.
Quote from: "Voldemort7"hmmm
I'm seeing alot of damage skills
Yeah, we need a lot more support skills.
Then what might you suggest Suih?
Do you have eye gouge in there LD?
If it's 1.3's Eye Gouge, I see no reason why not! Good idea, DarthPaul.
good skill
Yes its because it owned Agrias.
Malbaro breath! ( cant remember true name of it.)
Just thought it was a great support skill.
Quote from: "Shade"Yes its because it owned Agrias.
Malbaro breath! ( cant remember true name of it.)
Bad Bracelet/Bad Breath and I would say no to this, even though I have on my Blue Mage (but only because I've nerfed the living hell out of it and didn't really have any other non-superfluous options).
I don't really see people why people keep saying that we Blue Mages need Defensive/Support options oh so badly when they historically have had maybe 3 max even when they had more than 16 skill slots.
Outside of maybe having a bit more status (like Eye Gouge for Goblin Punch) and maybe taking Kinneas suggestion of a Big Guard/Mighty Guard approach with Woodwomen, I don't really see the need to have anything supportive besides Choco Cure and something from a Woodwoman.
Yes but having a ton of attack options really gets redundant especially when there are so many support options to choose from.
Not if all of the said attack options do different things, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.
(Besides, there's not that many monster support abilities from vanilla. There's probably not even a double digit number. There's Choco Cure [which we already have], Choco Esuna, the three crappy non-Leaf Dance spirits that Woodwomen have [and I guess Spirit of Life, which restored HP in vanilla...?], Gather Power [which is broken], and, what, Please freaking Eat?
That's not very many, especially when half of them are shitty.)
Lol then we'll have to make some new ones.
Looking at that list, I surprisingly forgot Oink, which is actually pretty damned good (and debatably broken), and Marlboro's Lick.
I seriously think that's it though.
Well..
Since in Mercenaries we cant invite monster, get Oink would be next to impossible.
Like said before, i dont believe that there are many healing abilities except for those of the trents.
Traditionally, Blue Magic just have 1 Healing Ability, White Wind (Choco Cure), and 1 Buffing Ability, Big Guard (I Dont Know, Maybe one of the Spirits).
And I agree, there are a lot of Damage Abilities there. I would take out Cat Kick, Wave Around, Triple Attack and Spark. They dont even seems like Magic.
I think Bad Breath, Goblin Punch, Death Sentence and Blaster would be better choices, since some of them are Blue Magic in other FFs and will make the Blue Mage versatile, as he is in other FFs.
I planned to make patch with blue mage and first thing that I thinked was elements. You want to have them all have them unique way of using each of them. +those skill that setzer said
Goblin Punch is an over used formula by this point, It's just a Shock-esque formula. Cat Kick is now just like it is in 1.3 which is a spell interrupter. Triple Attack is unique that it is a physical attack which can hit like a breath attack, therefore basically a two range physical attack with only a "Saber".
Death Sentence is a broken ability in FFT since the enemy ignores the afflicted from thereon out. I have one plan for it, but it will be unique to that class and thiatclass only.
I can't deny Blaster, good idea. I think I'll replace Wave Around with it.
Cat Kick.... very strong
Choco Esuna?
Good Idea but getting hit by Choco Esuna is quite a task unless you manage to pin a choco and poison it without getting killed.
I've looked through the history of FF's Blue Magic (all located at ffcompendium) and will post them here, there are actually quite a few interesting ones, which in some games, I wouldn't have guessed were Blue Magic!
Quote??? (5, 7 BL)
Effect: HP and max HP-related damage.
1000 Needles (7CC/8 in Cactuar summon; 9/X-2 BL; 10 non-usable; 12 AB; 12RW Cactoid)
AKA: Blow Fish (5/6 BL)
Effect: Exactly 1000 HP worth of damage regardless of enemy defenses. In FF8 it multiplies it by a certain amount. FF10 also has 10,000 and 100,000 Needle attacks, though characters can't learn them. In 12RW, it's just a regular attack.
Aero (2 MG; 3 WM; 5/6 BL; 8 MG; 9 non-usable; 12/MQ BM; 12RW Sylph; TA/TA2 Bishop/Sage)
Effect: Air-elemental attack. 12 also has Aeroga.
Aqua Breath (8/9/10 BL)
AKA: Aqua Rake (5/6 BL), Aqualung (7 BL)
Effect: Water-elemental attack on all enemies.
Black Shock
AKA: Flash (5 BL), Dischord (6 BL)
Effect: Lowers enemy's level by half.
Death Sentence (7 BL,Tactics-PSX)
AKA: Condemn (5/6 BL, Tactics Orator), Doom (8/9/10 BL; X-2 Dark Knight), Countdown (9 Amarant; 12 TM)
Effect: Counter appears above target's head; when counter is at 0, target dies.
Fire Breath (8/10/X-2 BL; TA Dragoon)
AKA: Emission (5 BL), Flame Thrower (7 BL)
Effect: Fire attack on one enemy.
Flametongue (X-2 Warrior)
AKA: Emission (5 BL), Flame Thrower (7 BL), Fire Sword (12RW Warmage), Fire Blade (7CC)
Effect: Sword attack with fire element
Frog Song (5, 7 BL)
AKA Toadsong (TA2 Animist)
Effect: Turns target into a sleeping Frog.
Magic Hammer (5/7/9/TA BL); Magick Hammer (TA2 BL)
AKA: Fear (12 enemy spell)
Effect: Spell lowers target MP (in 7 the caster gains MP as well)
Mighty Guard (8/9/10/X-2/TA/TA2 BL; 12RW Tiamat/Warmage)
AKA: Guardian (5 BL), Big Guard (6/7 BL), Perfect Guard (12 enemy spell), Might Guard (12RW Tiamat), Aegis (Tactics Princess)
Effect: Casts Protect, Shell, and sometimes Haste on the entire party. In Tactics it's just on one person.
Missile (5 BL)
AKA: Laser (7 BL)
Effect: Halves target HP.
Quake (1/3/4/6/7CC BM; 7/8 MG; MQ BM; Tactics non-usable; TA2 BL)
AKA: Earth Shake (9 BL), Earthquake (10 non-usable), Tremor (12 non-usable)
Effect: Strong earth-elemental attack on all enemies
Reraise (11/Tactics/TA/TA2 WM)
AKA: Life 3 (6 WM), Auto-Life (9 BL; 10 WM), Raise (7CC WM)
Effect: Character comes back to life when killed.
Roulette (5/6/7/9/TA BL; TA2 non-usable)
Effect: Randomly kills one fighter from either side
Sacrifice (9 Zidane)
AKA: Pep Up (5/6 BL), Revive (12 AB)
Effect: Completely removes caster from battle and completely heals one ally.
Tornado (4 BM; 7/8 MG)
AKA: WWind (3 WM; 6 BM), Weak (4a BM), Twister (9/TA BL)
Effect: Air-elemental attack which leaves targets with single-digit HPs
Vanish (6 DM; 9 BL; 12 AM; TA2 Sniper)
AKA: Hide (11 Thief), Conceal (TA Sniper)
Effect: Makes a character disappear. 12 also has Vanishga, which affects the whole party.
White Wind (5/7/8/9/10 BL; 12 enemy spell; X-2/TA/TA2 BL)
AKA: Pearl Wind (6 BL)
Effect: Heals entire party of HP based on caster's current or maximum HP. In 12 it stops status effects from affecting an enemy.
Some of these are really interesting and I am ready to revamp the monster's skills, if neccessary to accent some of these classic abilities in.
Quote from: "darthpaul"Good Idea but getting hit by Choco Esuna is quite a task unless you manage to pin a choco and poison it without getting killed.
Same thing with choco cure though. You'd need to pin the chocobo.
Or use poison on a blue mage and confuse a chocobo.
Meh I've gotten hit by choco cure pretty often though so maybe it's just how the person plays.
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Some of these are really interesting and I am ready to revamp the monster's skills, if neccessary to accent some of these classic abilities in.
Eh, the ones that I can see working are the elemental ones that aren't in the game already, like Aero 2 and Aqualung.
The other ones tend not to have formulas in that we can replicate at the moment, i.e. ???, White Wind, 1000 Needles, Black Shock, etc.
I've always liked the Quakes and Aquarakes and Aeros myself, which is why I included them in my Blue Magic. The way I have things laid out in my patch goes:
Goblin Punch - Goblin
Drain Touch - Bone Snatch, Ochu
Leaf Dance - all Dryads
Blaster - Vampire (has a chance to add Slow, since you can't learn spells when Stopped or Petrified)
Mind Blast - Mindflare (has a chance to add Critical, since you can't learn spells when Berserked or Confused)
Odd Soundwave - Squidlarkin
Life Spirit - Taiju (mine still just restores HP rather than revive)
Bad Bracelet - Great Morbol (adds Poison, Confuse, Darkness, and Silence)
Dark Whisper - Dark Behemoth (Draw Out AoE damage, chance to add Sleep or Dead)
Self Destruct - all Bombs
Water (Aqua Soul) - all Squids, Blue Dragon
Tremor (Mimic Titan) - Bull Demon, Sacred
Aero (Wind Soul) - Flotiball, all Hydras
Aqualung (Hurricane) - Squid monster skill
Quake - Bull monster skill
Tornado - Hydra monster skill
Squids grant too many Blue spells, and other monster classes don't offer any, but I'm entertained anyway. Aero/Tremor/Water all fall between Fire and Fire 2 in terms of power, Tornado/Quake/Aqualung fall between Fire 3 and Fire 4.
That's me though. One could argue that the inclusion of Aero/Water/Quake spells overlaps too much with Black Magic, but Black spells exploit a lot more elemental weakness, and still have more raw power and MP efficiency in comparison. This is just something cool and different.
Obviously, learning Life Spirit isn't really practical if it revives and you don't have access to invite (genius, by the way. I envy your patch), but I like shamelessly plugging my own work when I can, since I'm not working on a public release.
Tra la la.
It would be interesting to see a human fire off worker's laser.
Quote from: "boomkick"It would be interesting to see a human fire off worker's laser.
If I remember correctly, that animation causes a glitch with human characters where they boost like 40 height panels into the air, so that you can't actually see them on the battlefield, and they stay like that until their next action, unless their next action is another Dispose, which boosts them even higher in the sky.
The character's perfectly, normally targetable, it's just you can't see him/her until they perform some other action.
I think.
i would think a blue mage should have a med level cure spell and and a revive the elemental casts and maybe a few status skill it would more or less make them balanced casters and keep in line somewhat to their original concept without making them uber-powerful or useless lol
Quote from: "Lycansbane"....and a revive the elemental casts....
...What?
Ok so I actually took the time to think this skill set through. I took into consideration that some skills would be almost impossible to be hit with so they weren't gonna be suggested. I also tried to choose only one skill from each class except for behemoths, dragons and hydras cause their attacks are just overpowered IMO.
1.Choco Esuna -> one of the only support skills. self-explanatory
2.Turn Punch/Eye Gouge -> you can choose to either get a nice status or a nice radius'd attack. i can't choose
3.Flame Attack -> a nice, simple medium range attack
4.Cat Kick-> no point in blaster and this would actually be useful against charging enemies
5.Level Blast -> useful for slowing down enemies
6.Odd Soundwave -> a means of dispelling
7.Demi/Demi 2 -> best i could think of out of the set. maybe you can use one of the elemental souls
8.Sleep Touch/Grease Touch -> Either one would be awesome. just gotta choose between sleep or stop
9.Circle -> lower some MA
10.Beaking -> lower some PA
11.Mimic Titan -> some earth elemental radius'd damage.
12.Bad Bracelet? -> think its broken to learn it but theres not much good to choose from =/
13.Nose Bracelet -> once again, its pretty broken but not much else to choose from since you have to be hit
14.Magic Spirit -> something to heal with
15.Calm/Protect Spirit -> either or or merge them into a mighty guard sorta thing
16.Lifebreak? -> i couldn't really think of a last attack to put here and i'm not sure if you can get hit with it and live so i guess this can be a band of abilities slot?
There's 3 actual support abilities, and the rest are attack/status about 50/50. I just chose these attacks cause I always thought that blue mages were a class that did everything, from support to attack. Tell me what you think
ijust took another look at it and i think i shoulda chose more action abilities lol
too many statuses but maybe you can work off my list?
hope it was some help to you
Quote from: "Zephyr"5.Level Blast -> useful for slowing down enemies
7.Demi/Demi 2 -> best i could think of out of the set. maybe you can use one of the elemental souls
8.Sleep Touch/Grease Touch -> Either one would be awesome. just gotta choose between sleep or stop
You're going by 1.3.
There's no guarantee that Lasting Dawn's monsters will have the same things, even though Voldemort7 is working with him.
i'm sorry The Damned i meant a revive skill and some elemental magic skills
and Zephyr i would never play those guys unless they had some power those skills wouldn't be useful to my style of playing since i bait guys in and pick them off quickly but i think the sleep/drain/oil touches would be useful
I guess I haven't read into this to much, but the game is just revolving around Ramza, Rad, and Gaffgarion. So there are no generic characters ? Just those three and perhaps a few guests ? Interesting for sure. And Voldemort I would totally have to agree, having invitation and breeding would only mean people would do that to massively start grinding their characters to insane pumped battle machines.
Indeed, you read right. The game's stars are Rad, Ramza, and Gafgarion, co starring, Lavian, Alicia, and Agrias. Not to mention everyone's favorite manipulator, Delita.
Yeah. I'll try my best to remove it. :)
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For me,
Skills:
PA based:
triple attack
?cat kick - (random HP damage based on PA)
DMG MA
drain touch (MA + 60) - (trad. skill, gain HP, no element)
mimic titan (AoE 3, MA*3)(earth elemental)(trad.ly, BM likes the earth element)
aqua soul (MA*3 R3) - (several monsters are half to wind, so change it to water element)
Blow fire (MA*4 R3, AoE 3) - (powerful fire skill! IMBA.)
Ice bracelet (MA*5) - (2 panel)(short-ranged,)
Triple Thunder (MA*MA/2) - (random strike)
MA FX FIXED
selfdestruct - (trad. skill, sacrifice HP)
?bad bracelet - (like bad breath, status inflict)
hurricane - (like twister, reduce HP)(R4, AoE)(still, ?wind elemental)
odd Soundwave - (status dispel, defensive skill)
blaster - (add petrify, stop, R3)
MA SUPPORT
choco cure - (AoE, Ma*3)(healing skill)
calm spirit - (shell)
?protect spirit - (protect)
--
Do we still need unique names for the BM's skillset?
Do the skills have MP?
Can we also learn from Zodiacs to add diffuculty?
--
I found 'spark' weak, it can be changed to 'mimic titan'.
I think we should remove blaster, if bad bracelet would be added.
and add Odd Soundwave!
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Comments?
Resurrection! (Maybe)
Should the Rad/Ramza separate skillsets apply here? Keep in mind that the player can still Learn the other character's abilities, they just would never be able to use them.
But if you have a way you think you can set up a theme. (and as before new monster skills if you'd like)