FFT: ASM'D main info/discussion

[Archael]

Auto - Potion ---> Auto Cure

just a level 1 cure spell

[iopyud]

My initial suggestion was Auto Potion -> Auto Cure 2.

Philsov didn't like it but I still think it's a good idea. At least your MP gets screwed and you have to do some tweaking when it comes to armored units who normally have low MP.

Really, why not give this a second thought? Even Arch suggested it.

I stand corrected/informed about the Equip Bow issue.

And I'm fine with Epic Hats as long as they're not custom items.
I prefer a hack that sticks with vanilla.

[philsov]

Maybe if either of you, preferably both, read my last post, you'd understand what I'm saying.

And I'm fine with Epic Hats as long as they're not custom items.
I prefer a hack that sticks with vanilla.

Uh... can you expand on that?

[Archael]

I read entire thread

haven't seen a single valid argument against Auto Cure

(Cure 1 btw, not 2)

it doesn't heal much, it heals only self, and would only be good on units with decent faith / MA

meaning no 40 faith melee tanks will be getting much use from it

[iopyud]

Nevermind, Phil. Disregard that. I thought you were planning on adding new hats instead of overhauling some of the existing ones.

Moving on, Auto Cure will then be moar suited to casters that way.

Really, all of my units in 1.3 have Auto Pot. It's like... the Blade Grasp of 1.3 or something... at least early-mid game.

Anyway, were you talking about this?

01 = 1 * WP damage!
02 = WP*WP damage with 25% chance to cast ability/spell (rigging up potion to cast holy is pretty funny when combined with auto-potion!)
03 = WP*WP damage
04 = weak faith-based ice damage
05 = WP*WP damage, 25% chance to inflict status off status table
06 = drain WP*WP damage
07 = Heal WP*WP
09+ = MA% chance to inflict status/quick/ct00/all health but 1/all MP damage (ew)
14 = Golem (with some pretty funky success #'s)
1E/1F = single-target single-hit with truth or untruth formula (quadratic MA!) damage (440 damage from a mage at level 99)
20 = 0 damage, 25% status proc
24 = elemental formula, [PA / 2] * MA damage + status proc
25 = weapon strike
2D = PA * WP, 100% status
31 = [PA/2] * PA damage
32 = PA*3 damage
33 = PA% chance to inflict (ew)
38 = 100% status infliction
3C = Wish (heal 40%, receive 20% damage)
3E = 100% hp-1 damage (OP!)
43 = Shock (max hp - cur hp damage)
44 = damage HP = current MP (kinda cool, imo, but OP for the player at zodiacs)
45 = Climhazard (targets max - current) damage
52 = self descruct (complete with 100% status) -- imagine auto-potion THEN.
60 = truth formula + 6.25% status
63 = SP*WP damage (throw)

And of these, most of these cause damage or have a crap % chance to work.  Only things worthwhile for auto-potion are 100% status (auto-haste/protect/shell, e.g.), self-wish (really it's a 20% self heal), and the traditional potions, which are going to be 30% anyways.  

I thought it(Auto Cure) was possible since you can make something like Auto Spin Fist.

I'm sleepy and I feel sick. I'm off.

[philsov]

haven't seen a single valid argument against Auto Cure

Mechanically impossible at this time.

Anyway, were you talking about this?

More or less, yeah.  That's the list of things Potion can turn in to, and most of them would actually harm the user of auto-potion.

[Archael]

how is it mechanically impossible?

you just ASM it

[philsov]

Right.  Silly me.  I'll get right on that.

Any additional ASM hacks will be coming in once I'm done with all the event editing and preliminary patcher changes.  For now, AP is staying as planned.

[SolidSnakeDog]

if you ever found a way to change Auto-potion to something esle call me out.
In my projet, Auto-Potion is bugged big time for me and needs to be changed...

[philsov]

ok, I've starting inputting and toying with some of these changes...

Counter Spin Fist will need to shift somehow.  In order to actually activate, the Spin Fist ability needs to have at least 1 range, which means the radius will also need to be decreased.  The final effect will be something akin to a plus formation, with the targetted enemy in the center, and then all 4 panels around it affected as well, with the caster obviously immune to it.  We can call it Exploding Fist or something.  

Any alternate suggestions?

[Skip Sandwich]

Counter Smile - attempts to charm opposite gender attackers (basically via deliberate wardrobe 'malfunction')

Yoink! - when attacked in melee, respond by attempting to steal the opponent's weapon

Counter Wave - when under tension (attack), respond with an enhanced Wave Fist (range 4, area 1v1)

[Asmo X]

Have you guys tried editing reactions this way yet? I seem to remember trying something like it ages ago and finding that editing Dash created a buggy Counter Tackle and editing Regen did nothing to Regenerator.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

ok, I've starting inputting and toying with some of these changes...

Counter Spin Fist will need to shift somehow.  In order to actually activate, the Spin Fist ability needs to have at least 1 range, which means the radius will also need to be decreased.  The final effect will be something akin to a plus formation, with the targetted enemy in the center, and then all 4 panels around it affected as well, with the caster obviously immune to it.  We can call it Exploding Fist or something.  

Any alternate suggestions?

Counter Wave Fist, put simply.

Make it able to Counter a variety of attacks that could hit it within its 3 panel range (I'm pretty sure it can't Counter outside the range anyway, iirc?), so that its a ranged, weaker version of Counter that can be chosen for versatility instead of power.

With less mobility, the fact it'll mostly be weaker than Counter won't stop it from being unused since it allows you to run and heal while still doing some kind of Counter-based damage.  At worst, it'd be a poor man's Damage Split (in terms of ranged buffer damage on an enemy, not healing) for physical units while giving Monks / Martial Arts users a special Reaction to give them a bit of a leg up against Two Swords / Two Hands users, as they'd be the only ones truly outputting higher level damage with it.

[iopyud]

Counter Secret Fist for me.

[philsov]

Have you guys tried editing reactions this way yet? I seem to remember trying something like it ages ago and finding that editing Dash created a buggy Counter Tackle and editing Regen did nothing to Regenerator.

Dicked around with Dash + Counter Tackle last night.  The buggiest aspect regarding counter spin fist was the animation, which basically was Ramza flying all over the place in a leaping dash onto all the people (think Poison Nail + Dash, on multiple targets), and then with a few other animations it'd only display damage output onto one enemy despite actually damaging several.  But in terms of actual effect, no bugs encountered.

Regarding hopeful hacks to Br/Fa up, regenerator, and such, no, I haven't even trying to hard hack those yet.  At my current skill level it's literally needle in a haystack guesswork until I can locate where the reactions are in Battle.bin (probably the large chunk separated by 00's prior to the support section, thanks Nate <3), and then from there what is what in the first place.  I'm sure there should be a utility or two that'll help me out in the endeavor, but the current plan when I actually get to that step is to change all 03's to different values until said number pops up with Br/Fa up.  But again hopefully by that point I'll have lurked around enough to have a better method.

@suggestions:

Counter Smile - pretty cool, but Br% chance to work, gender check, AND % to actually charm?  too rng for tastes.

Yoink! - that sounds pretty cool, actually.  Less random without the gender check, and more fitting, battle wise.  Maybe Disarm?  Caution can be shifted over to Monk anyways.

Counter Wave - too similar to counter flood, methinks.  If AoE I'd prefer it to be melee-range only.

Counter Wave fist - Variable-range counter, which then gets extended to... book/harp/spear/stick/carpet melee + swordskills.  

Counter Secret Fist - another good idea.  While both this and Steal Weapon are hardly worth using as action abilities, having them as counters really turns the table.  

Grah, torn.  I'll think on it some more.  Still open to more suggestions.

Edit:  Katana Breaking sucks, doesn't it?  I can hax them up to have a 0% (maybe) or 1% (surely) break rate, except the rares which I can ramp up to like 50/100% if so desired -- don't forget the player is outright handed 5 or 6 in the deep dungeon.  Sound good?  What's a good rate for the rare ones?

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Yoink! - that sounds pretty cool, actually.  Less random without the gender check, and more fitting, battle wise.  Maybe Disarm?  Caution can be shifted over to Monk anyways.

Blade Snatch, for the lolpun?  I do like the idea of this one as well.

Counter Wave fist - Variable-range counter, which then gets extended to... book/harp/spear/stick/carpet melee + swordskills.

Pretty much, kind of like a single-target Counter Flood for PA-oriented units.  That's kinda the intent at least, as (iirc) even a Martial Arts boosted Wave Fist does slightly less than a straight Counter from the same unit... and it's a Counter-type move that isn't boosted by Two Swords / Two Hands, giving it far less max damage potential than standard Counter for the range it gains.

Counter Secret Fist - another good idea.  While both this and Steal Weapon are hardly worth using as action abilities, having them as counters really turns the table.

Agreed, this could be cool as well.

Edit:  Katana Breaking sucks, doesn't it?  I can hax them up to have a 0% (maybe) or 1% (surely) break rate, except the rares which I can ramp up to like 50/100% if so desired -- don't forget the player is outright handed 5 or 6 in the deep dungeon.  Sound good?  What's a good rate for the rare ones?

Lowering the break rate on the more common one sounds good.  Battles are supposed to not end in 1-2 turns in this version of the game, so farming up the cash to get large amounts of every Katana and stay fitted out seems like it'd be a really tedious bit of meta-difficulty for anyone using Draw Out.  As for the rarer Katanas, I think the 50/100 is a bit too high, as it makes it a requirement to go into Deep Dungeon and Move-Find Item like hell in a game where even the best Move-Finder can't break 4-ish Move to even try using the abilities, and Chirijiraden was further debuffed in Easytype anyway.  You still need to Move-Find Item a single Chirijiraden to use it regardless, I suppose, but it still seems kinda silly.

Idk, 50%+ just seems a bit too high for my tastes.

[Sephirot24]

I say 1% (lol) for the normal ones, and 20% for the rare ones, that is if you can't hack the Fur Shop so we can buy them back. If you can re-buy them from the Fur shop, then 100% is fine for Chiri and Masa, 1 shot every match (if you only had 1).

Counter Steal Weapon (Disarm) sounds too awesome with 70% chance. If it's 70% chance of triggering AND then normal chance of stealing then it's fine though. Counter wave and Counter wave fist sound meh IMO.

[iopyud]

Dicked around with Dash + Counter Tackle last night.  The buggiest aspect regarding counter spin fist was the animation, which basically was Ramza flying all over the place in a leaping dash onto all the people (think Poison Nail + Dash, on multiple targets), and then with a few other animations it'd only display damage output onto one enemy despite actually damaging several.  But in terms of actual effect, no bugs encountered.

That's awesome. Change it to "Counter Ninjaaaaah"

Jokes aside.

1.) For Caution I can't remember if I said it before but would it be possible to add Protect/Shell status along with Defend?
Nobody uses this skill. It should be at least, on par with Auto Cure or something.

2.) Regenerator should also come with Esuna when it procs or at least Defend status...

3.) I suggested Dash to have a 100% Cancellation effect. Would it be possible to add -1 PA or -1 MA along with it? That way, you'd think twice when attacking someone with Counter Tackle.

4.) Meatbone Slash is a severely restricted skill. How about making it activate once HP is below 50%?

5.) Nobody uses Steal Gil. This needs a buff. I propose a Confusion effect that triggers around 25 to 50%. Or drop the Gil part and call it Steal Sanity.

6.) Steal EXP - I'm pretty sure nobody uses this. Is it possible to turn this into Steal CT? Either you steal 20 CT from the enemy or you CT00 him while CT100ing yourself.
Another suggestion is Steal Speed - Him Slow, you Haste.

7.) Gilgame Heart's retarded. Unless you put it on your Lv. 1 training dummy. Is it possible to make this work like... it turns half of the damage you receive into Gil?
Think Damage Split, you heal 50% of the damage, but the other 50% turns into Gil instead. Maybe dick around with Gilgame and Damage Split. Heck, the Gil part doesn't even have to be 50% damage.

[philsov]

20% for the rare ones, that is if you can't hack the Fur Shop so we can buy them back.

Can't be bought back =\.

Counter Steal Weapon (Disarm) sounds too awesome with 70% chance. If it's 70% chance of triggering AND then normal chance of stealing then it's fine though.

Yeah, it'd trigger the Steal Weapon ability.

1.) For Caution I can't remember if I said it before but would it be possible to add Protect/Shell status along with Defend?

Not with my current (complete lack of) skill level.  From my understanding, the easiest level of hacks are single-byte swapping, which limits stuff like regenerator + caution to also inflict status that's around them, program wise.

Which means, I can "easily" pair up Caution's defending with...... crystal, dead, undead, charging, Jump, and performing.  Now, of these Jump is the only one that sounds remotely cool, but the kicker is YOU NEVER COME DOWN.    Technically you never take off either, the inflicted unit just sits there, graphically, for the rest of the fight.  Lame.  Anyways, I think caution might be worth more in this patch due to the innate weapon guard and class evasion (both of which get doubled, even if you're without shield/mantle) and reduced damage, but at this time I'm going to declare it lost and gone.

Regenerator at least has some hope.  Regen's grouped up with Poison (lol), Protect, Shell, Haste, Slow, Stop, and Wall.  So whenever I get that horrible step, I can rig up Protect + Regen, possibly.  

3.) I suggested Dash to have a 100% Cancellation effect. Would it be possible to add -1 PA or -1 MA along with it? That way, you'd think twice when attacking someone with Counter Tackle.

tbh I don't know if I want it with 100% cancellation, but I don't think there's a formula to support that.  And then for the cherry counter tackle is going away anyways :p.

4.) Meatbone Slash is a severely restricted skill. How about making it activate once HP is below 50%?

That only possible if I increase the "critical" range of units to 50%.  Great for HP restore and such, absolutely horrible for AI playability.  Everything running away at 50% health?  Nah.

5.) Nobody uses Steal Gil. This needs a buff. I propose a Confusion effect that triggers around 25 to 50%. Or drop the Gil part and call it Steal Sanity.

the gil part would have to be dropped, but I don't think anyone will miss it.    It'd be a pretty cool buddy for Steal Heart -- something to use on people of your own gender.  

6.) Steal EXP - I'm pretty sure nobody uses this. Is it possible to turn this into Steal CT? Either you steal 20 CT from the enemy or you CT00 him while CT100ing yourself.
Another suggestion is Steal Speed - Him Slow, you Haste.

Again, restricted to current formula, which don't allow that.  Steal Speed has some potential, but that's variable target which is rather impossible.

7.) Gilgame Heart's retarded. Unless you put it on your Lv. 1 training dummy. Is it possible to make this work like... it turns half of the damage you receive into Gil?

Probably not, but when I start messing with that stuff I'll keep an eye out for it.

Great ideas, I just wish some of them could be implemented =\

[Zaen]

If Steal Exp is useless.. turn it into an ability for another class. That, or give the thief an attack skill or something.