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Stretch [Posts: 214]
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  • [June 27, 2012, 07:20:55 PM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2012, 07:20:55 PM »
How about instead of 100% damage split, they have their own 100% reaction abilities but twice the HP? Give them the HP to provide the same battle longevity that damage split has. They'd still punish you for attacking, but it mixes things up.

Yeah, right
Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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  • [June 27, 2012, 07:56:53 PM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2012, 07:56:53 PM »
Taking advantage of the fact that I'm going to re-make FFT + from scratch, I'm probably going to change a lot of stuff.

All right.  Where to begin....















-All abilities will become a bit weaker-
(They shouldn't strike as hard as a standard hit anyway.)
(Wait, will Brave actually affect the power of direct weapon strikes, including unarmed, with the return of Morale Abilities for the Mediator?)

You'll have to steal all the "Rare items" instead of finding them into the DD
(Will you also be able to find some with the Move-Find Item Innate of the Thief (and related ability)?  Having to Steal everything seems like less of a chore than hunting for the right panel.  A combination of the two is advised, as well as War Trophies that drop more than just Elixirs.

"All rare items nerfed. Still strong, but not so broken anymore."

As they should.  I considered my own hack (or derived game) would incorporate checks and balances to ensure the value of rare items without outshining even mundane, overlooked gems.

"No Weapon will get a WP higher than 16."

Did you do some basic math to determine how powerful a strike you get out of 16?  At 99, Power for your best soldier equals 17, roundabouts.  That's 272 Damage, barring changes.  Double-Grip brings 544, and soldiers with the best Chapter Four gear have at least 600 Health.  That's good.  Now, if Brave is involved with the weapon swing, the mean of 55 means we're about over 272.

Weapons and equipment should get other unusual bonuses or deficits so to make them attractive.  The Thief Hat is a good example.  The Green Beret sucks.  Isn't there a way to give it Direct Aft Evasion, like in FFVI?

"No Shield evade % will be higher than 40."
The Aegis should have nothing but 40% Magic evasion.

"Jump +2/3 removed (Useless)."

Axes will return into the game, being usable only by squires or with the "Equip axe" support
Why not Geomancers?

All Zodiacs will have 100 Br, Damage Split & Magic Defend UP/Defend UP

"All Zodiacs skillset will be changed into something similar from what you can see in this topic."
Okay, but is it possible to port over the others into the game?  Did someone fashion those sprites, or are they palette swaps of existing creatures?  Either way, I'm looking forward to killing these imbeciles.

"You'll be able to return to the world map after killing Altima; DD will be unlocked ONLY after you killed Altima."
New Game Plus with a twist.  Excellent.  It also pushes the expectation that our protagonist survived that explosion, when his fate should remain enigmatic instead.  I still say that ending was one big Deus Ex Machina overload, a heavy-handed way of driving the author's message home.  Talk about pitch-black.  Probably why we like it so much.  Hence, the change below had better be a really cool secret.  Wicked cool.  Just don't pull any foolish cross-over scheme over our faces.  It would cheapen the experience.

"Finishing the DD will unlock a secret. But I'll keep it secret for now."
Better be worth the update.

Then again, Tactics Plus has inspired me to enter game design in some capacity.  Being a Beta is one, a design document author another.  The current version's balance is far above what others at this site have accomplished, and that includes Rebirth, which says a lot.  The fights are logic puzzles and the options are still strong, even though you still veer towards late-game gear (leveling up is responsible for that.  Suppose armor and helms could increase Health and Magics via percentages instead?), and the secrets you can find further illustrate where the original game shines.  We still need to clear away a few bugs here and there, such as monster melee attacks not provoking Hamedo or Shirahadori grasping every attack in existence, but for now, Tactics Plus is coming along strong.
Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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  • [June 27, 2012, 08:20:54 PM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 08:20:54 PM »
A Red Mage that looks like a Red Mage would definitely be the way to go.  Also, that link to the male Red Mage is slick.  The portrait needs changing, so we can request that.  The current Rad is okay but not stunning.  It could be Rad if his Special Class was changed to something else other than Red Mage, like a Brigand Class or lesser Fell Knight.

I partially rescind my doubts.  The sprite that should change is the Onion Knight one.  It's just gross-looking, hate to say.  I know the Class is one of the coolest in the game, once you figure out what you need for it, but oh my God does it suck to look at her.  Alicia and Lavian deserve better.  If this game was rigged to sell, this would not be a selling point until the sprites for Onion Knight change.  Maybe the new Female Knight with the circlet could serve to stand in.  She looks like someone under Agrias' command.  The other one looks like she just saw a Black Mage.

How you go about the changes made with Plus is up to you.  However, remember that the cosmetics of the game serves to pull them in, but it may begin to wear thin or backfire over time.
Rising from a long sleep...
Joseph Strife [Posts: 580]
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  • [June 27, 2012, 09:46:31 PM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 09:46:31 PM »
I liked almost everything, except for 2 things.

1- Damage split as reaction for ALL the Zodiacs does not seem cool, i mean, some react in different ways, i liked very much the critical quick on Quekclain or whatever the name is (i'm too lazy to check now) and so on. We could think of better reactions based on their skillsets.

2- if by Swimin the samurai you mean he can take normal actions in water lvl 2 it doesn't make sense. I mean, he is a heavy warrior that wears armor and helmet. The natural thing to think is that when he enters deepper water he sink coz of his heavy weight.

Except thoso 2 i liked everything.

Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...

Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [June 27, 2012, 10:44:23 PM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2012, 10:44:23 PM »
This post is going to be LONG
I don't like the idea of them having Damage Split unless they have their Vanilla HP values. It'd just make battles longer, IMO.
My idea is to force the player to think and alternate between attacking/healing instead of bringing your most damaging build and zerg rush the boss like there is no tomorrow
I still havent decided on the HP values, that can be tweaked to accomodate our desires

How about instead of 100% damage split, they have their own 100% reaction abilities but twice the HP? Give them the HP to provide the same battle longevity that damage split has. They'd still punish you for attacking, but it mixes things up.
The battle would still last less and require less thinking
Let's suppose the boss has 100% counter magic
At first you think: "Cool, the boss cockblocks magic user!" but, in the end, it would just mean you equip your best weapon and smack his face with it
Now, If EVERY attack you make inflicts damage on you as well, you actually have to stop and heal, or reduce their brave in some way

@Neophyte Ronin

- Brave affects only the % of triggering a reaction, not the power of attacks. That would lead to broken numbers
- Each location features 3 good items (On par with what you can buy in stores) and an Elixir as move finds. So bringing a thief along it's always a good thing.
- Some piece of equipment is supposed to be outshined later in the game :-)
- Jump +2/+3 are going to be removed because they suck and they will be hacked into Solidify & Ground aware (Hacking reasons)
- Axes will be Squires only because squires need something unique that makes them usable even in late game (If you don't have monsters in the party, they are useless)

Looks like no one likes the idea of 100% damage split on the zodiacs so far...

Quote from: Joseph Strife
2- if by Swimin the samurai you mean he can take normal actions in water lvl 2 it doesn't make sense. I mean, he is a heavy warrior that wears armor and helmet. The natural thing to think is that when he enters deepper water he sink coz of his heavy weight.
That's just a flavour change: Won't make them unbalanced, but I like the idea of samurais being able to overcome rivers to get their enemies thanks to their hard training

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
Rising from a long sleep...
Joseph Strife [Posts: 580]
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  • [June 27, 2012, 11:50:36 PM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 11:50:36 PM »
That's just a flavour change: Won't make them unbalanced, but I like the idea of samurais being able to overcome rivers to get their enemies thanks to their hard training
Well, it just sounded weird to me, but that's acceptable. :D

Gaffgarion: It's in the contract!
Ramza: Does your contract says: "When you find a former squire, that now is a Holy knight that has kidnapped a princess, in a bridge by a waterfall fighting a brigade you are supposed to kill everybody that helps him!"
Gaffgarion: ... Sure!
Ramza: ... Let me see your contract...
Gaffgarion: ... No...

Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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  • [June 28, 2012, 04:33:10 AM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 04:33:10 AM »



About Wizard's Flare: In Final Fantasy history, Flare is considered barrier-piercing (i.e. penetrating magical defenses and striking at full force against any target).  Bahamut also dealt Megaflare to all targets and also penetrated defenses, hence his power was often less than usual, even if it seemed superior to other summons of his tier.

Since Magic Evasion should remain on Flare, try a hack that removes Protect, Shell, Defend, Cast, and Perform in addition to regular non-elemental damage.  That would necessitate a lesser-power instant-cast version, or a casting delay at "ra-grade" power.
Mediator
Eternal [Posts: 3069]
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  • [June 28, 2012, 04:39:57 AM]
Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 04:39:57 AM »
I don't like Summons being evadeable. At all. I've said that for Arena and I say it here. There should be some form of magic that's reliable, and it should be Summons.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
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  • "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [June 28, 2012, 10:40:59 AM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 10:40:59 AM »
    @Neophyte Ronin
    - Speed in FFT:+ can't go so high that more powerful spells are useless...but still, short charge is pretty strong
    A short charged death while wielding a Faith rod can quickly kill any non-immortal unit, which is good
    - Checked the FFTPatcher right now (Just to be sure): Skeleton's demi hits for 30% of Hp.
    Which is intentional: I designed Undeads to be very strong: bulky (Damage Split & Constant healing) or very hard to hit (Ghosts)
    Still, there are easy ways to kill them: Item and White magic are very common skillsets, and can easily dispose of them (Or even Mustadio, Once you acquire him)
    - Dunno if that Flare hack you proposed is possible, at the moment
    - So, you propose the wizard's skillset gets 2 flares? 1 instant-low powered one and the strong (vanilla) version?

    @Eternal248
    I don't remember how summons works in arena, but here they target the whole field, hitting only enemies...I fear they might be too strong once someone finally starts to use them to prevent resurrection & easily damaging all the enemies on the field at once

    "Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
    Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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    • [July 01, 2012, 12:22:00 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #29 on: July 01, 2012, 12:22:00 PM »
    @Dome:

    - 30% Health is close enough to one-third (33-34%).  But now that Skeletons have Damage Split, I'm more at ease.  That means I have to take care with my attacks when trying to dispose of them.  Hitting them with Paralyse and following up with non-stop aggression is one method.  I recall that they had Health Restore as a Reaction Ability, not Damage Split (did the Dryad and Skeleton swap due to balancing or that stupid loss-of-foliage visual glitch?).  The new type is more palatable because there isn't a risk of losing one's progress while fighting them.  If they are Critical, they won't cast Health Restore and force me to start all over again.  That was a bitch when trying to kill one, although not necessarily while trying to recruit them.

    In short, I'm better off with the Skeletons now than before.  If they get Damage Split instead of Health Restore, that is.

    - I hope there is some sort of barrier-piercing blow of some kind.  If you cannot just disregard (multiply by 0) someone's resisting stat (like Magic Defense) while casting Flare, then it should at least get rid of whatever else might be protecting the target.  I don't intend for two Flare Spells back-to-back, although one that's charged and the other instant might be interesting.

    What I meant specifically was to incorporate an aggressive big daddy to the current Flare Spell that runs a risk when cast.  The Sage's old Flarega could be reconstructed into a classic Black Mage ala 8-Bit Theater-inspired Point-Blank-Annihilation tactic: all characters on the battlefield, save for the caster, gets hit with unavoidable non-elemental damage that also dispels barriers.  It's like a Meltdown Spell!  They are meant to be risky because it's unavoidable and will kill allies in the process, leaving perhaps only the Black Mage standing among the party.  It's meant to be a spell that you want to prevent if cast by the enemy, or insane if it's a last-ditch effort on part of the heroes.  The caveat is that it takes some time to cast, like a Meteor Spell but a little slower.

    @Eternal248
    I agree.  However, what Dome says is right: characters who can Summon run the risk of spamming a spell each time you want to resurrect your buddy.  The solution would be to offer reliable methods of resurrection, like improving Phoenix Downs to add a percentage of Max Health so as not to be wasted when an enemy Summoner is around.  The Revive technique is lower in Health output than before, so the instant-cast resurrection devices struggle against summon magic.

    I propose an alternative: have Summons deal a percentage of Health damage, dealt a percentage of the time.  If the element is compatible, then the amount can be halved, negated, or absorbed.  In other words, find out how to fix Lich to respond to Half, Negate, and Absorb correctly so the others may follow suit.  Next, have Phoenix Downs heal a percentage of damage that is above the amount of damage cast by a Summon.  Bingo.  Problem solved (except when against two summoners).
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [July 01, 2012, 07:08:31 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #30 on: July 01, 2012, 07:08:31 PM »
    Visual glitches MUST DIE. I started to hate them. They make the hack look non-professional. Anyone, please report them if you see one.
    Anyway...I can set Flare to ignore Faith & Shell if we need, but still, we need an instant/high mp/weak spell for the wizard. Any suggestion?
    (And no more whole-field spells, leave them to the summoner)
    P.s: Don't know if what you proposed with the summoner's spell is possible, and I'd like to avoid using more hacks...let's try to use what we have instead of putting more stuff in
    P.p.s: What about a manaburn ability for the arcanist (Previous sage)? Could be their instant spell

    "Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [July 02, 2012, 06:25:05 AM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #31 on: July 02, 2012, 06:25:05 AM »
    PGF sent me some suggestion on FB
    - Remove Remedy & Make every status-removal item remove several statuses

    What do you think about it?

    "Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
    Sain [Posts: 19]
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    • [July 02, 2012, 10:32:36 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #32 on: July 02, 2012, 10:32:36 PM »
    If its not already in use, Dark Holy.  I always felt it would make sense for the Black Wizard to use Dark Holy alongside a White Mage using Holy.

    EDIT: And THEN I read the changelog.  Heh, sorry, I've not delved to far into FFT+ and hadn't unlocked the Sage (or obviously read/remembered the changelog regarding the Sage).
    « Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 10:46:49 PM by Sain »
    Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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    • [July 03, 2012, 06:43:41 AM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #33 on: July 03, 2012, 06:43:41 AM »
    Multifaceted cures make holding multiple items in inventory a handy venture.  Also, I noticed that, should you deal status effects, the Item Command has one solution for any mishap: Giant Frog.  Remedies are the Giant Frog of the Item Command: the biggest solution to any problem.  It's an absurd notion, as it burns through everything you've done.  I petrified a frog once for overkill purposes but someone still had an Item command, spamming my sculptures.

    So I propose that Items do cure a few different ones each time.  The question is what?  Also, will there be other status effects like Immune or Curse like in other hacks?

    As for Manaburn, I recall certain fights in FFVI where Manaburning was the trick to beating some peculiar bosses who rode upon Magic like Health.  Manaburn sounds wicked cool for debilitating enemies, but that also suggests that certain characters or monsters can be retooled to die when their MP reaches zero.  Hmm....

    Nah, it's too tricky, and requires some other hack!  (Did someone publish a hack that does, I wonder.)

    Anyway, the making of Remedies as cure-alls-no-more sounds okay, although a Remedy should still be around for some things.
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [July 03, 2012, 01:21:10 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #34 on: July 03, 2012, 01:21:10 PM »
    Let's see:

    Antidote - Poison, Don't move, Don't act
    Eye Drop - Blind, Oil, Confusion
    Echo Greens - Silence, Sleep
    Maiden's Kiss - Frog, Berserk
    Soft - Stone, Stop
    Holy Water - Vampire, Undead

    Nothing should "cure" death sentence: once you get it, only death or ending the battle can "save" the unit
    No more Remedy. Removed from the game

    Looks good?

    P.s: If we implement this hack, we can give back to the player Move MP-UP + MP Switch

    "Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
    Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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    • [July 05, 2012, 04:23:23 AM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 04:23:23 AM »
    While that would give female mages a break, it would also mean that MP becomes just another form of HP completely.  If you wish to include that, then you might as well stipulate the effect to correspond to practically every ability that deals MP damage, such as Magic Break.  It may also mean that you may seriously consider spells being cast with HP if no MP exists, which in itself is imbalanced because Health tends to be higher anyway.  It would only be a small dent, unless the prices are readjusted.

    Speaking of which, weren't you leery of incorporating new Hacks into the project?
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [July 05, 2012, 06:08:22 AM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 06:08:22 AM »
    While that would give female mages a break, it would also mean that MP becomes just another form of HP completely.  If you wish to include that, then you might as well stipulate the effect to correspond to practically every ability that deals MP damage, such as Magic Break.  It may also mean that you may seriously consider spells being cast with HP if no MP exists, which in itself is imbalanced because Health tends to be higher anyway.  It would only be a small dent, unless the prices are readjusted.

    Speaking of which, weren't you leery of incorporating new Hacks into the project?
    Spells casted with Hp? No way >_>
    Anyway...yes, I am (Because I fear they might conflict with each other and create bugs) but that hack is awesome, and males/females should both have MP Switch/Move MP-up
    Also, I'd like to change female-only equipment so everyone can equip it (And nerf it. No more LOLRIBBONIMIMMUNETOALL)

    "Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
    Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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    • [July 05, 2012, 04:45:35 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 04:45:35 PM »
    Might want to run a couple of polls before doing that.

    Didn't anybody think of devising male-only equipment?  I figure there has to be a method of flagging equipment to decide who equips what.  I sincerely doubt that there are gear in the game that women would want to equip, too.  Why a double standard, Square?
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [July 05, 2012, 05:00:45 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 05:00:45 PM »
    Might want to run a couple of polls before doing that.

    Didn't anybody think of devising male-only equipment?  I figure there has to be a method of flagging equipment to decide who equips what.  I sincerely doubt that there are gear in the game that women would want to equip, too.  Why a double standard, Square?
    Yeah, I'll surely open some pool about it
    I tought about it (Aftershave? XD) but I feel the best way to balance it is to allow everyone to equip ribbons and bags (Even if a male Knight with a bag is not manly, at all :-(

    "Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
    Timbo [Posts: 537]
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    • [July 05, 2012, 08:03:49 PM]
    Re: [Discussing: Level Cap] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes
    « Reply #39 on: July 05, 2012, 08:03:49 PM »
    Quote
    Yeah, I'll surely open some pool about it
    I tought about it (Aftershave? XD) but I feel the best way to balance it is to allow everyone to equip ribbons and bags (Even if a male Knight with a bag is not manly, at all
    It's called a satchel and Indiana Jones wears one!
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