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Physics student
Rfh [Posts: 286]
##### Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« on: May 20, 2012, 09:41:35 AM »
I said time ago I will do a guide and here is the guide.

To start...

Well in this guide I will tell you how this works. Many people are unaware of the serious problem involves creating magic without different levels. The typical example is to replace Calculator by Sage and put spells with the same level.

Understanding the problem

- To begin we have to see how the weapon damage:
There are two variables, PA and WP These two values ​​increase when increase your level (gain PA) and history proresion (gain WP) Therefore, the damage is much greater each time.
- Magical Damage:
What's happen? For a simple spell there are only one variable: MA. The Y value doesn't change, therefore the damage is much less variable than the weapon damage. Here a calculations:

Physical damage using PA: 5 and WP: 4   Formula Dmg_(WP*PA) = 20 damage
Magical Damage with MA: 5 , Y: 10, 65 Faith the caster and the target Formula Dmg F_(MA*Y) = 21 Damage

This is balanced, but that occurs later in the game...

Physical damage using PA: 20 and WP: 15   Formula Dmg_(WP*PA) = 300 damage
Magical Damage with MA: 20 , Y: 10, 65 Faith the caster and the target Formula Dmg F_(MA*Y) = 84 Damage

Well you can see the big difference. (The Gear raise HP in progressive way at the same time that the weapons, but what happens with the magic?,  For fix this Square use different magics levels with progresive Y values. You see Black Magic, White Magic, Draw Out  and Summon.

But this system has 2 problems:

- If you save JP to learn an advanded level spell, you'll cause a very big damage early in game.
- ''I want to create for example, a Sage job with only 2  magic spells (Aero and Quake) or remplace the diffrents magic levels of Black Mage to different elemental magics.''

Fix the problem

See this formula: (MA+Y)/2*MA

In this exist 2 variables. For the for the previous example:

MA=6   6/2*6= 18 Damage
MA=24   24/2*24 288 Damage

Here is the solution!
(You can use  (PA+Y)/2*PA and (PA+Y)/2*MA too if you don't want Weapon damages)

But, there is a problem... you obtain your best gear in level 40-50.  So ''WP variable'' in Weapon Damage ends at this level   however the variable of this formula ends at level 100. How I can fix this?

- Create gear from level 1 to 99. For do this I have an idea. An ASM hack that makes this:
Shop Availabity is based on your your the maximium unit level in the party and the level for unlock each item is the value put in ''Enemy level'' in FFPatcher. The hack is at the end of the topic.
Here is a example about sword and armor gear:

 Weapons:Level 1: 3 WPLevel 8. 4 WPLevel 16. 5 WPLevel 26 6 WPLevel 37: 7 WPLevel 49: 8 WPLevel 65: 9 WPLevel 78: 10 WPLevel 95: 11 WPSpecial: 12 WPArmor and Helmets:Level 1: +2 +8 HP´Level 8: +3 (Helmet)Level 12: +10 (Armor)Level 16: +5 (Helmet)Level 20: +17(Armor)Level 26: +8, +34Level 36: +12, +53Level 49: +15, +70Level 65: +20, +90Level 70: +25 +110Level 78. +32 +140Level 86: +35 +150Level 91 +42 (Helmet)Level 94: +193 (Armor)Level 96: +48 (Helmet)Level 98: +215 (Armor)Special: +50, +230Media Growth and multiplier:HPG:10HPM: 140PAG: 45 (For Physical Clases)PAM: 130 (For Physical Classes)MAG: 45 (For Magical Classes)MAM: 135 (For Magical Classes)Using the formula (MA*1)/1*MA, this gear and stats and Pride Job defensive boost (Media reduced all damage by 33%) Always in all levels you need 5 hits to kill the unit.

ASM hacks

Here is the Gear hack, and my multiple Formula edit hacks, makes possible this:
Dmg_F(MA*Y/X*MA)
Heal_F(MA*Y/X*MA)
Heal_(MA*Y/X*MA)
Dmg_(MA*Y/X*MA)
Dmg_(PA*Y/X*MA)
Dmg_(PA*WP*Y/X)
Dmg_(PA*Y/X*PA)

Here are the hacks:
 Shop Availabity is based on your the maximium unit level in the party and the level for unlock each item is the value put in ''Enemy level'' in FFPatcherBA2E2290F2F8040C000000000580023C747F422416004290000000004C94040800000000     The X value is adjustable with FFTPacher in each ability, For example, formula 2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) 100% Status become Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y))/X . If the X value is 0, counts as /1. Incompatible with Pride Job Defensive Boost     EF76050800000000        1980043CF93884901980033CCE3863941980023CD03842940000000018006200121000001A0044001980033C902D638C80000234250062A0121000000800E003040062A400000000           The X value is adjustable with FFTPacher in each ability, For example, formula 2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) 100% Status become Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y))/X . If the X value is 0, counts as /1              1980033CCE3863941980023CD03842941680063C1980053CD638A5840680043CC028050021208500F6EB8590B377050800000000                   18006200121000001980073CF938E7901A00470012100000F176050800000000        Edits:08 Dmg_F(MA*Y) become Dmg_F(MA*Y*MA)0C Heal_F(MA*Y) become Heal_F(MA*Y*MA)23 Heal_(MA*Y) become Heal_(MA*Y*MA)1E,5E,5F and 60 Dmg_((MA+Y)*MA/2) become Dmg_(MA*Y*MA)24 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*MA) become Dmg_(PA*Y*MA)2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) become Dmg_(PA*WP*Y)31 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*PA) become Dmg_(PA*Y*PA)           18006200      12100000              18006200      12100000              D3770508      00000000              18006200      12100000      1980013C      A0170608      00000000              18006200      12100000              3017060C              3017060C              3017060C

Sorry for my English level... I'm Spanish!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 06:55:37 PM by Rfh »
• Modding version: PSX
• Physics student
Rfh [Posts: 286]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 06:54:30 PM »
I uptaded the first post with the all hacks that need the tutorial. Anyway, here are:

 Shop Availabity is based on your the maximium unit level in the party and the level for unlock each item is the value put in ''Enemy level'' in FFPatcherBA2E2290F2F8040C000000000580023C747F422416004290000000004C94040800000000     The X value is adjustable with FFTPacher in each ability, For example, formula 2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) 100% Status become Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y))/X . If the X value is 0, counts as /1. Incompatible with Pride Job Defensive Boost     EF76050800000000        1980043CF93884901980033CCE3863941980023CD03842940000000018006200121000001A0044001980033C902D638C80000234250062A0121000000800E003040062A400000000           The X value is adjustable with FFTPacher in each ability, For example, formula 2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) 100% Status become Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y))/X . If the X value is 0, counts as /1              1980033CCE3863941980023CD03842941680063C1980053CD638A5840680043CC028050021208500F6EB8590B377050800000000                   18006200121000001980073CF938E7901A00470012100000F176050800000000        Edits:08 Dmg_F(MA*Y) become Dmg_F(MA*Y*MA)0C Heal_F(MA*Y) become Heal_F(MA*Y*MA)23 Heal_(MA*Y) become Heal_(MA*Y*MA)1E,5E,5F and 60 Dmg_((MA+Y)*MA/2) become Dmg_(MA*Y*MA)24 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*MA) become Dmg_(PA*Y*MA)2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) become Dmg_(PA*WP*Y)31 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*PA) become Dmg_(PA*Y*PA)           18006200      12100000              18006200      12100000              D3770508      00000000              18006200      12100000      1980013C      A0170608      00000000              18006200      12100000              3017060C              3017060C              3017060C
Physics student
Rfh [Posts: 286]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 03:44:31 PM »
I don't undertand why ''All damage formulas become: Final Damage/X'' don't work in EBOOT, so I create this:

     Edits:08 Dmg_F(MA*Y) become Dmg_F(MA*Y/X*MA)0C Heal_F(MA*Y) become Heal_F(MA*Y/X*MA)23 Heal_(MA*Y) become Heal_(MA*Y/X*MA)1E,5E,5F and 60 Dmg_((MA+Y)*MA/2) become Dmg_(MA*Y/X*MA)24 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*MA) become Dmg_(PA*Y/X*MA)2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) become Dmg_(PA*WP*Y/X)31 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*PA) become Dmg_(PA*Y/X*PA)           8F780508      00000000              86780508      00000000              7C780508      00000000        18006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000001980013CA01706080000000018006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000004C1706080000000018006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000003C1706080000000018006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000005C17060800000000              98780508      00000000              3017060C              3017060C              3017060C

Note: If you put X=0 ( /0) in any cited formula, the game freeze.  (only in eboot)

And for the problem in multihit formulas (use X for determine the hits) I do this:

<Patch name="Multi-hit Formulas always hit (1+#)">
<Location file="BATTLE_BIN" offset="1165CC">
##001034
</Location>
</Patch>
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 08:15:36 PM »
Why hasn't anyone replied to this yet? This is some very impressive work RfH!

"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Timbo [Posts: 526]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 10:13:11 PM »
People probably aren't responding because it's a metric shitload of information.

Let me see if I have this right it replaces the Y value of the various magic formula's with a variable derived from the highest leveled member of your party to create spells that scale as the game progresses. To make use of this you have to set the Gear hack and scale the equipment availability to cover from levels 1 to 99, right?

ALL THE THINGS Official Caretaker.
RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 09:12:34 AM »
I figured the reason no one replied is that most people realized the flaws in the logic presented and just didn't feel it worth the effort to dissect and refute it.  That's the reason I never replied, anyway...
Emmy [Posts: 231]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 04:18:42 AM »
I don't undertand why ''All damage formulas become: Final Damage/X'' don't work in EBOOT, so I create this:

     Edits:08 Dmg_F(MA*Y) become Dmg_F(MA*Y/X*MA)0C Heal_F(MA*Y) become Heal_F(MA*Y/X*MA)23 Heal_(MA*Y) become Heal_(MA*Y/X*MA)1E,5E,5F and 60 Dmg_((MA+Y)*MA/2) become Dmg_(MA*Y/X*MA)24 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*MA) become Dmg_(PA*Y/X*MA)2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) become Dmg_(PA*WP*Y/X)31 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*PA) become Dmg_(PA*Y/X*PA)           8F780508      00000000              86780508      00000000              7C780508      00000000        18006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000001980013CA01706080000000018006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000004C1706080000000018006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000003C1706080000000018006200121000001980033CF9386390000000001A004300121000005C17060800000000              98780508      00000000              3017060C              3017060C              3017060C

Note: If you put X=0 ( /0) in any cited formula, the game freeze.  (only in eboot)

And for the problem in multihit formulas (use X for determine the hits) I do this:

<Patch name="Multi-hit Formulas always hit (1+#)">
<Location file="BATTLE_BIN" offset="1165CC">
##001034
</Location>
</Patch>

Anyone know how to separate the "multiple formulas edit" here to where it only affects formulas 24 and 31?  I was testing this hack out a bit, and the healing formulas portion of it doesn't work as stated.  Edits to 24 and 31 work, and I don't really need the other ones.
The Puppet ---Master---
Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 3928]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 04:33:05 AM »
>.< dat necrobump though...

• Modding version: PSX
• <@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.
 Journey of the Five Youtube Channel The Lion War Current Status Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: Other TLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other
Ashiel [Posts: 26]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2015, 07:16:58 PM »
I figured the reason no one replied is that most people realized the flaws in the logic presented and just didn't feel it worth the effort to dissect and refute it.  That's the reason I never replied, anyway...
This is a little late but, could you elaborate on some of the flaws?

The reason I ask is because I too also see the magic scaling to be a bit iffy and would like something that produces a smoother progression rather than just creating bigger versions of spells, and a formula that progresses both base and multiplicative damage by MA seems like it would be a great idea. However, using FFTPatcher, I can't find any formula for this that...

1. Includes Faith in calculations (the closest I can find is formula 1F, but it deals increased damage for having lower faith).
2. There doesn't seem to be a formula that works for healing in the same way.

I'd like to look into this more but if I'm missing something that would make it a bad idea or fruitless, it would be great to know beforehand. Since you've got way more experience with FFT-modding, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
C1REX [Posts: 46]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 02:37:46 PM »
Necrobump but related.

What if MA growth will be significantly increased for all playable jobs like by a factor of 3?
Starting stats wouldn't change but with endgame MA at 60 or 80 it would scale at similar rate as physical attacks, wouldn't it?
Otherwise PA growth could be reduced and damage could be more WP based. Can be a combination of all of this.

I'm not sure about this one but what if magical items would have MA+ bonuses as big as WP attack bonuses? Can you make a staff with MA+25?

EDIT:
Just tested all this out and:
You can add MA+ with any value to items attributes. This means you can create rods and staffs with magic boost similar to weapon attack boost.
The only challenge is limited number of slots and high number of items that would benefit from MA bonuses.

I went another route and cut PAM and MAM by half to 50 and then increased MAC from 50 to 10. It gave me very decent results so far. Looks good on paper but I need to test in game to be sure. I also increased MA bonuses on all items that give such bonus by a factor of 3.

My wizard on paper should have 37MA at lvl 99 while PA across the board is much lower at about 10 for males.
I may tweak the MAC further to keep Fire1/Bolt1 at damage level similar to standard attack powers of knights and monks.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 08:04:18 AM by C1REX »
• Modding version: Other/Unknown
• Guru [Posts: 195]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2018, 05:47:11 PM »
Honestly I haven't messed around with magic too much, so can't really comment too much here. Not sure having fire1 and etc be the same as a knights attack would work out too good though, since mages are capable of learning higher damage skills, and knights only have attack. I think you might be going by stats on paper a little too much here, and forgetting about the bigger picture of how skills, equipment and stats are all used together.

When talking about the MA+ items, not sure if you were considering the idea of having weapons with increasing MA+ as you progress through the game, but I do like this concept though.

PS. Probably better to link to this topic rather than necrobump it
C1REX [Posts: 46]
##### Re: Rebalance Magical an Physical Damage in level growth
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2018, 09:18:09 AM »
I decided to go with adding MA to weapons, robes, hoods and accessories. It's seems like a bug that magic weapons don't boost spells.
I also made high level spells making smaller damage comparing to bolt 1 for example but all spells are viable options end game - at least on paper.

I also played with range a bit so spell 1,2,3,4 aren't just stronger versions of each other.
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