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Making AI Better - Indirectly  (Read 2458 times)
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Argg0 Logged
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  • [December 02, 2007, 06:47:02 PM]
Making AI Better - Indirectly
« on: December 02, 2007, 06:47:02 PM »
So, as we all know, AI doesn't usually buy Phoenix Down.

They usually get Potion and Antidote/Eye Drop. Why?

Most enemies have level 1 Chemist (unless they are mages, thus, having lvl 2). So they only have 100-199 Jp. They ALWAYS buy potion, so that leaves us with 70-179 Jp.

With that Jp, sometimes they won't even have Jp to buy PD... and will always be able to buy Antidote.

This is just one example of my stuffs that AI does.

So, for a start:
Decrese PD Jp cost to 50 (yes 50) and increase Antidote/Eye Drop to 120. This will make enemies, most likely, have it a lot more (untested)... and 40 Jp difference won't effect us at all.

There might have others skills like that, so we could take a look...

So, what you guys think?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Argg0 »
huthutchuck Logged
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  • [December 02, 2007, 07:30:23 PM]
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 07:30:23 PM »
Fine by me, who uses eyedrop?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by huthutchuck »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 02, 2007, 07:49:21 PM]
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 07:49:21 PM »
Quote from: "huthutchuck"
Fine by me, who uses eyedrop?

Delita used one on me when I got struck by Blind Knife...

But yeah, I've sorta corrected for this already by making Phoenix Down 70JP. I think I may have also decreased some of the other skills too, but now if a unit has the bare minimum, he can still get both PD and Potion. An alternative would be to make Eyedrop and Antidote 0JP, considering they are next to useless.

Argg0: Mages need lv3 chemist in this version. I hope that's not a problem for you...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Argg0 Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 12:06:55 AM]
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 12:06:55 AM »
Yeah, dropping they to 0 would work too.

And why would lvl 3 chemist be a problem for me?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Argg0 »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 12:37:06 AM]
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 12:37:06 AM »
It shouldn't, I just established the +1JLv a while ago and wanted to remind you in an inoffensive way.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Christopher Robin Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 04:23:04 AM]
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 04:23:04 AM »
Couldn't you just change the learn percentage?  It seems like that would be easier.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Christopher Robin »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 09:53:28 AM]
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 09:53:28 AM »
Eh? Chance to learn skills by picking up crystal applies to chance to for enemies to buy skills?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Christopher Robin Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 11:05:58 AM]
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 11:05:58 AM »
I'm pretty sure.  And it's also the blue magic percent, because Ultima is set to 100%.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Christopher Robin »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 11:19:21 AM]
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 11:19:21 AM »
Your logic does make sense, which is always a good sign. I'll test it next time I'm working on it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Prinygod [Posts: 69] Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 12:38:24 PM]
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 12:38:24 PM »
I don't think it is, other wise bm in chap 1 could have level 4 spells and such. Also wouldn't story characters would some times come with there abilities unlearned.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 03:30:28 PM by Prinygod »
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VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 01:21:10 PM]
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 01:21:10 PM »
Have you checked the percentages? Skills like Night Sword are 100%, so they would always have that skill learned. Skills like Potion are 100%, so units always learn that. Skills like Fire4 are 25%, cost a lot of JP, and are rarely learned.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Prinygod [Posts: 69] Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 03:30:42 PM]
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 03:30:42 PM »
As many times a i played the game i would think that would have seen fire4 in chap 1 at 25%. I wasn't referring to the skills that had 100%. What about Izlude's jump? He always has learned level8 and vert 8. I dont see how jp cost has anything to do with this particular theory but these 2 skills are also expensive
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Prinygod »
Check out www.mamehub.info an online emulator that combines MAME and MESS

My youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Prinygod?feature=mhee
ronan Logged
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  • [December 03, 2007, 05:33:59 PM]
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 05:33:59 PM »
If I guess correctly , this is because :
- generics need enough JP in order to be able to learn a skill
- Izlude is not a generic, his skills are fixed
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by ronan »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 04, 2007, 04:40:09 AM]
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 04:40:09 AM »
Yeah, certain skills, like Wish, are learned without costing JP. Replacing Wish with Invitation causes Ramza to learn Invitation without losing his 100JP. A similar event probably causes Izlude to learn the skills in the Level Jump 8 and Vertical Jump 8 slots.

And btw, if the generic character doesn't have enough JP to learn the skill, even if it chooses to by random chance, there isn't enough JP for it to happen anyway. None of the Wizards in Chapter1 use Fire4 because none of them have a high enough Job Level (JP to use). I am saying that the amount of JP a character has is allocated by this theory, I already know for a fact that generic enemies need the JP to learn the skills. Higher JLv = more skills.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Christopher Robin Logged
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  • [December 04, 2007, 09:50:08 AM]
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 09:50:08 AM »
Izlude always has Level 8 Jump because his is NOT using the Lancer skillset.  He's using a special Jump skillset containing ONLY the two level 8 skills.  Also, Jump skills are set to 50%, and with no other skills to learn... anyways, I've noticed that secondary skillsets don't work the same.  Secondary skills, such as Izlude's Jump are set in the Battle Events, so they might automatically have all those skills.  Wiegraf has a Punch Art skill, and it isn't the full Monk skillset, either, so I think this is true.

I've heard that when learning skills, the AI starts from the top.  So for say, Wizard the skill list goes:

Fire
Fire 2
Fire 3
Fire 4

It will try to learn Fire first at 90%, Fire 2 at 65%, Fire 3 at 40% and Fire 4 at 30%.

In other words, while it COULD learn Fire 4 in chapter one, it's really unlikely.  First it would have to have enough JP, which is 850... which is Job Level 5.  Second, it would have to not spend that JP on another skill, which means it would have to fail the 90% chance to learn Fire, and fail to learn Fire 2 and 3 first.  I've seen a Wizard with say, Fire 2 but not Fire before, but going down the list it because increasingly unlikely this sort of thing will happen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Christopher Robin »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 04, 2007, 10:34:16 AM]
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2007, 10:34:16 AM »
Chris, you are right: I set Night Sword to 0% and Gafgarion did not learn Night Sword.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
Kourama [Posts: 382] Logged
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  • [December 04, 2007, 07:26:55 PM]
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2007, 07:26:55 PM »
To make the AI somewhat better you can always put take off "rare" off of some of the equipment. Sure then you'll have a chance to steal rarer items but then enemies are more likely to have that item equipped.

In my "version" of FFT I changed Cherce a little bit and in the first chapter when fighting Miluda both White Mages have Cherce equipped.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Kourama »
VincentCraven [Posts: 1094] Logged
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  • [December 05, 2007, 12:15:15 AM]
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2007, 12:15:15 AM »
o_O Wait, you did give them Maintenance, right? Or are you allowing yourself to obtain Cherche in Chapter 1? I guess if it's really difficult to steal off them and stay alive, there is no problem, but....

Wait a minute, how did you change Cherche? Auto-Float and Auto-Reflect is quite useful to have access to before even reaching Chapter2 (especially if you haven't scaled the mages so that they aren't so powerful in the early game).

As for rare items, I let (am letting?) a few slide into the hands of high level enemies as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by VincentCraven »
I changed jobs and that has made all the difference.
The Sometimes Here, Mostly Gone Spriter
Kuraudo Sutoraifu [Posts: 900] Logged
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  • [December 05, 2007, 01:59:17 AM]
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2007, 01:59:17 AM »
I gonna hop down this rabbity trail.  I like the idea of giving people like Miluda, who have no unique skillset, something to make them special.  Giving them a special item and maintenance would be kewls.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Kuraudo Sutoraifu »
Kourama [Posts: 382] Logged
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  • [December 05, 2007, 03:50:51 AM]
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« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2007, 03:50:51 AM »
I didn't give them Maintenance and wasn't really thinking about obtaining Cherche in Chapter 1. Its just recently that I've been trying out modifying FFT so Cherche was a suprise to me. And yes even if I tried to learn thief moves I boosted weapons so enemies and allies are much stronger. Miluda can 1 hit KO some of my members.

Anyway the Cherche thing pretty much taught me making an item "unrare" makes it appear in random battles and the enemy level refers to when they can randomly have it and what level Ninjas can throw it.

As for changing Cherche I have to check exactly what changes I made but it certainly wasn't enough to make it a rare item.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Kourama »
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