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Mediator
Eternal [Posts: 2999]
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  • [March 29, 2012, 04:13:12 PM]
Based on an idea Asmo presented a while back, I present to you all FFT: Kind Of! Not a fancy name or anything because it's not a fancy patch! It's a rebalancing patch that stays very true to Vanilla, unlike some other patches that have been released. It doesn't try to be a Hardtype or anything, but enemies will now properly use their skills and actually have JP to spend on them. Certain battles have new units, and you won't see as many Knights/Archers as there were before.

If you want to see the entire changelog, I've included it both with the patch and below. Comments/feedback are always welcome.

Like I said, don't expect new sprites or anything. This patch is for those wanting a rebalanced Vanilla experience with minimal changes.

*NOTE: IF YOU DON'T WANT THE NEW MONSTER ABILITIES, DD, OR RANDOM BATTLES PLEASE STICK WITH VERSION 1.21.











« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 03:28:11 PM by Eternal »
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [March 29, 2012, 04:17:31 PM]
Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 04:17:31 PM »
Awesome!

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
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  • [March 29, 2012, 06:15:53 PM]
Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 06:15:53 PM »
I forgot to remove Blade Grasp. Whoops. Oh well, shouldn't affect much, use it to your heart's content until when I decide to update.

"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
KainDemitri [Posts: 1]
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  • [March 29, 2012, 10:56:23 PM]
Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 10:56:23 PM »
Under the Time Mage I assume that you mean that Slow 2 will not hit allies correct?

It all looks awsome BTW.
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  • [March 30, 2012, 06:05:11 AM]
Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 06:05:11 AM »
Haha, yes. You're right.

"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
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  • [March 30, 2012, 03:28:52 PM]
Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 03:28:52 PM »
Overview seems ok and that sounds like a very nice job. :D

I have some suggestions and some topics I'd like to point out, as my only intention is for a contructive criticism, if I may.


Brave/Faith modifications

One might consider that's only logical that, during a campaign, your war companions ought to become bolder or have more faith while you walk your path.

So, to make things fair and perhaps balanced, of course, if the idea is even possible to do with current mechanics, every PHYSICAL job mastered (star on the head or LV 8, your call) could increase 1 Brave, whilst MAGICAL would boost 1 Faith.

Dying in combat could also give a small penalty to brave for the dead character, say, like - 5 for the duration of the combat, given that dying is not something to be proud of these days.


Chaos Blade

That's supposed to be the most fearsome sword. Giving it Initial: Regen goes against the very concept of it. Chaos, where are you? There's no need to make it kill instantly, petrify instantly or else, but make it strong and fearsome somehow, specially that now you cannot equip it with TWO SWORDS, tagged with another sword like Excalibur. So, this is a balance itself you guys already successfully imposed. You could add a spell effect to it, perhaps dispel effect plus random 'Split Punch'. But the idea is that the sword 'makes a mess', and dispel is a very interesting option, imho, rather than regen.


Thief

I don't know if I got that right but now you simply can steal 100% of success one's equipment? If so, I'd rather say that you could increase the odds, but not make them 100%. True that we could have a bad time against thiefs, and perhaps equipping things like SAFEGUARD and REEQUIP would come in handy, but again, 100 is only too good as well. :)


Time Mage

I rather don't concur with Meteor new CT (or any large CTing spell). It's just that now there's not much meaning in learning Short Charge if you don't have long CTing spells available out there, so you give less meaning in their spellcasting as well, specially if you lower their power somehow as not to be spammable. Having a good range of CT amongst your spellcasters (and foes) is pretty much more challenging when the window is broader and you may actually fit in more elements. If you have a little window for actions, things become pretty much too straighforward, or so that's how I see.


Geomancer

Hum...sorry, but now I wouldn't EVER play with a Geomancer. Given that they were already boring to death, one of their triumphs were indeed having an unavoidable spell (and the little chance to add status) up their sleeve (and the wide range helped a lot too), before you could get at closer range to take enemies down. Now, I put the problem like this: Geomancer is too dependable on terrain. There are terrains that the effect for Geomancy is not that good (in addition to many difficulties you'll be given depending on the stage), mainly because the odds of inflicting ailments are also very low. And now you made it possible to evade PLUS less range. The only decent thing would be left for Counter Flood, but even that can be evadeable...My suggestions not to kill this job would be:

  • Keep it unevadeable OR evade it but odds for status much higher;
  • Geomancy doesn't hit allies if evadeable OR hit allies if unevadeable;
  • Increases base movement by 1 OR jump + 1;
  • Base resistance to all element-based spells and techninchs up to 20%;

There's another idea that I'd like to suggest, but that might be classified as something that would change too much, but I'll say all the same:

  • Geomancy is directly related to weapon: meaning that Geomancy will occur on weapon range. Chances to hit would be the same as for the weapon at hand. Geomancer would then be able to wield bows(?) as well, along with swords, axes and poles. The odds for a status would be much higher, giving you the option either try a physical attack, or inflict a elemental attack with chances to inflict status. The geomancy damage would be bases on WP and MA, whilst physical attack on WP and PA. You would choose physical over magical whenever your MA was too low for a strong effect, or when the terrain would inflict such element power that your target would guard or absorb, and other situations you can imagine.


Mediator

:D It's an example of how a job could get even better than it already was. I think the job was well done there, in contrast with Geomancer. Although we can say that Geomancer problem is the conception as a whole.


Summoner

Perhaps Golem can cast Protect on the party, in the case you are one that doesn't play with Priests all the time. And yes, rather better having Fairy as a different effect. :) As for Zodiac, please keep the high AoE, because it's simply the strongest summoning and it does look like it hits everywhere, besides, it's missable, unique.


Samurai

Hum, Masamune is another rarity. Perhaps keeping it as a powerful buff as it were (haste and regen), specially because it can break and you can actually buff your foes as well. And if it does break, God won't place some for you at the store. Let's not consider save state for once. ;) Or you can make Uribo-family have it as a poach, so you can make sure you won't have these before entering the dungeons, perhaps.

I gather Blade Grasp will be taken out the next release?


Ninja

You removed those throwing abilities that have unique items? Sounds safer.


Calculator

I don't play with Calculators that much, but now they seem mildly interesting, less than before. And not because of the removal of spells. That might be the job less imba in some stances, but due the removal of '3' multiplier, because at late game, 99 is often found and might be the key to improve strategies at tough maps. As there are not fatal spells in list anymore, I see no reasons to remove that multiplier either.

And if you compare good/evil effects, you see that there's a small list of good effects on your behalf. I'd consider adding some other buffs to balance it a bit more or one with a bit more 'drastic' effect, such as HASTE or QUICK. Because if not, Calculator will keep being a mildly thing, if you think that you must go through a lot of jobs just to get it.


Soldier

What happens when Cherry Blossom hits a Bomb, for example? Will it consider FIRE and heal it, or will it consider then ICE and THUNDER and damage it?


Well, that's all I have to point out as for now. ^^ Sorry about the long post and keep up the good work. The changes are overall nice and well-thought. :D

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    • [April 01, 2012, 12:53:43 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 12:53:43 AM »
    Help on Poison Crossbow is fucked.

    Squires should have shields.

    Use the "Axes & Flail damage becomes (Rdm{0..PA-1}+PA)*WP" ASM

    I stand by Elemental being evadable, but it should have it's damage upped if it's using vanilla formula

    All Monster attacks (Choco Attack, Tentacle, all that shit) should be consolidated into just "Attack".

    Y.Chocobo needs Choco Esuna or Choco Ball

    Finally, I'm a firm believer in Innate Weapon Guard for all.
    Mediator
    Eternal [Posts: 2999]
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    • [April 01, 2012, 10:26:35 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 10:26:35 AM »
    Overview seems ok and that sounds like a very nice job. :D

    I have some suggestions and some topics I'd like to point out, as my only intention is for a contructive criticism, if I may.


    Brave/Faith modifications

    One might consider that's only logical that, during a campaign, your war companions ought to become bolder or have more faith while you walk your path.

    So, to make things fair and perhaps balanced, of course, if the idea is even possible to do with current mechanics, every PHYSICAL job mastered (star on the head or LV 8, your call) could increase 1 Brave, whilst MAGICAL would boost 1 Faith.

    Dying in combat could also give a small penalty to brave for the dead character, say, like - 5 for the duration of the combat, given that dying is not something to be proud of these days.


    Chaos Blade

    That's supposed to be the most fearsome sword. Giving it Initial: Regen goes against the very concept of it. Chaos, where are you? There's no need to make it kill instantly, petrify instantly or else, but make it strong and fearsome somehow, specially that now you cannot equip it with TWO SWORDS, tagged with another sword like Excalibur. So, this is a balance itself you guys already successfully imposed. You could add a spell effect to it, perhaps dispel effect plus random 'Split Punch'. But the idea is that the sword 'makes a mess', and dispel is a very interesting option, imho, rather than regen.


    Thief

    I don't know if I got that right but now you simply can steal 100% of success one's equipment? If so, I'd rather say that you could increase the odds, but not make them 100%. True that we could have a bad time against thiefs, and perhaps equipping things like SAFEGUARD and REEQUIP would come in handy, but again, 100 is only too good as well. :)


    Time Mage

    I rather don't concur with Meteor new CT (or any large CTing spell). It's just that now there's not much meaning in learning Short Charge if you don't have long CTing spells available out there, so you give less meaning in their spellcasting as well, specially if you lower their power somehow as not to be spammable. Having a good range of CT amongst your spellcasters (and foes) is pretty much more challenging when the window is broader and you may actually fit in more elements. If you have a little window for actions, things become pretty much too straighforward, or so that's how I see.


    Geomancer

    Hum...sorry, but now I wouldn't EVER play with a Geomancer. Given that they were already boring to death, one of their triumphs were indeed having an unavoidable spell (and the little chance to add status) up their sleeve (and the wide range helped a lot too), before you could get at closer range to take enemies down. Now, I put the problem like this: Geomancer is too dependable on terrain. There are terrains that the effect for Geomancy is not that good (in addition to many difficulties you'll be given depending on the stage), mainly because the odds of inflicting ailments are also very low. And now you made it possible to evade PLUS less range. The only decent thing would be left for Counter Flood, but even that can be evadeable...My suggestions not to kill this job would be:

    • Keep it unevadeable OR evade it but odds for status much higher;
    • Geomancy doesn't hit allies if evadeable OR hit allies if unevadeable;
    • Increases base movement by 1 OR jump + 1;
    • Base resistance to all element-based spells and techninchs up to 20%;

    There's another idea that I'd like to suggest, but that might be classified as something that would change too much, but I'll say all the same:

    • Geomancy is directly related to weapon: meaning that Geomancy will occur on weapon range. Chances to hit would be the same as for the weapon at hand. Geomancer would then be able to wield bows(?) as well, along with swords, axes and poles. The odds for a status would be much higher, giving you the option either try a physical attack, or inflict a elemental attack with chances to inflict status. The geomancy damage would be bases on WP and MA, whilst physical attack on WP and PA. You would choose physical over magical whenever your MA was too low for a strong effect, or when the terrain would inflict such element power that your target would guard or absorb, and other situations you can imagine.


    Mediator

    :D It's an example of how a job could get even better than it already was. I think the job was well done there, in contrast with Geomancer. Although we can say that Geomancer problem is the conception as a whole.


    Summoner

    Perhaps Golem can cast Protect on the party, in the case you are one that doesn't play with Priests all the time. And yes, rather better having Fairy as a different effect. :) As for Zodiac, please keep the high AoE, because it's simply the strongest summoning and it does look like it hits everywhere, besides, it's missable, unique.


    Samurai

    Hum, Masamune is another rarity. Perhaps keeping it as a powerful buff as it were (haste and regen), specially because it can break and you can actually buff your foes as well. And if it does break, God won't place some for you at the store. Let's not consider save state for once. ;) Or you can make Uribo-family have it as a poach, so you can make sure you won't have these before entering the dungeons, perhaps.

    I gather Blade Grasp will be taken out the next release?


    Ninja

    You removed those throwing abilities that have unique items? Sounds safer.


    Calculator

    I don't play with Calculators that much, but now they seem mildly interesting, less than before. And not because of the removal of spells. That might be the job less imba in some stances, but due the removal of '3' multiplier, because at late game, 99 is often found and might be the key to improve strategies at tough maps. As there are not fatal spells in list anymore, I see no reasons to remove that multiplier either.

    And if you compare good/evil effects, you see that there's a small list of good effects on your behalf. I'd consider adding some other buffs to balance it a bit more or one with a bit more 'drastic' effect, such as HASTE or QUICK. Because if not, Calculator will keep being a mildly thing, if you think that you must go through a lot of jobs just to get it.


    Soldier

    What happens when Cherry Blossom hits a Bomb, for example? Will it consider FIRE and heal it, or will it consider then ICE and THUNDER and damage it?


    Well, that's all I have to point out as for now. ^^ Sorry about the long post and keep up the good work. The changes are overall nice and well-thought. :D

    Whee for late responses!

    Brave/Faith Upon Death: Good idea, but it'd need an ASM.

    Chaos Blade always had Regen, it's just Initial now. Dispel wouldn't be too useful, IMO, because the AI hates using buffs.

    Thief steals aren't 100%. :P

    Short Charge is still incredibly good. It's more apparent in Summoners than the other mages now, but it's still very useful.

    I'd consider making Geomancy not hit allies. This would make Counter Flood slightly less of a double-edged sword as well. I'd need others' feedback as well though.

    I agree with your thoughts. Masamune is back to Haste/Regen. I've also tweaked Draw Out learn rates so the AI will actually use them now. >_>

    As for Calculators, there's plenty of other ways to target level 99 units, such as using their CT or EXP to target them. Just have to experiment! :P

    If a unit is hit with an attack that is multiple elements, and it absorbs one of those elements, it'll absorb the entire attack.

    Poison Crossbow is fixed.

    I'm not changing skills around if I don't have to, so no Attack for monsters right now.

    Every monster will have a rounded out skillset. This is what I gave them:

    Chocobo:   Chocobo Esuna
    Goblin:      Armor Break
    Black Goblin:   Weapon Break
    Bomb:      Flame Attack
    Red Panther:   Chakra
    Pisco Demon:   Aqua Soul
    Pisco Demon 2:   Confuse Song
    Skeleton:   Zombie
    Bone Snatch:   Death Sentence
    Living Bone:   Death
    Ghoul:      Poison
    Ghost:      Slow
    Revenant:   Stop
    Flotiball:   Dispel Magic
    Flotiball 2:   Lifebreak
    Juravis:   Float
    Juravis 2:   Eye Gouge
    Steel Hawk:   Haste
    Uribo:      Please Eat
    Uribo 2:   Deathspell 2
    Porky:      Dispel 2   
    Wildbow:   Return 2
    Woodman:   Silence Song
    Woodman 2:   Magic Spirit
    Trent:      Raise
    Bull Demon:   Blind Rage
    Bull Demon 2:   Wave Fist
    Minotaur:   Scream
    Malboro:   Malboro Virus
    Ochu:      Frog
    Great Malboro:   Poison Bio
    Behemoth:   Gather Power
    King Behemoth:   Magic Ruin
    Dark Behemoth:   Power Ruin
    Dragon:      Threaten
    Dragon 2:   Fire Breath
    Blue Dragon:   Dragon Care      
    Red Dragon:   Dragon Power Up      
    Hyudra:      Triple Thunder   
    Hyudra 2:   Dark Whisper
    Hydra:      Triple Breath


    "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Panda_Tar [Posts: 97]
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    • [April 01, 2012, 11:52:53 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 11:52:53 AM »
    Oh, regarding the Chaos blade, I was mainly referring the Stone strike it had. I completely forgot that it had regen to start with. lol Silly me. Does it still petrify target or was nerfed?

    Woohoo, enemies using Masamune would be just outright alarming. :D

    Ah, got it. So, if it's a three elemental attack, it'll always consider the WEAK/ABSORB relation in priority to the VULNERABLE stance. And what happens when you use that on a unit that absorbs ICE but it's weak to FIRE? Will it absorb as well? oO

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    Eternal [Posts: 2999]
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    • [April 01, 2012, 11:56:10 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 11:56:10 AM »
    Chaos Blade still inflicts Petrify. :D

    If an enemy absorbs Ice, but is weak to Fire, the enemy will Absorb 2x the damage from the attack.

    "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
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    • [April 01, 2012, 12:00:09 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 12:00:09 PM »
    Chaos Blade still inflicts Petrify. :D
    *floating in heavens*

    If an enemy absorbs Ice, but is weak to Fire, the enemy will Absorb 2x the damage from the attack.


    Naughty.

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    • [April 01, 2012, 07:35:54 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 07:35:54 PM »
    Quote
    I'm not changing skills around if I don't have to, so no Attack for monsters right now.

    I thought this was supposed to be a base patch? It would be nice if that work was all done with already, so that future patchers won't have to do that.
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    Zaen [Posts: 403]
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    • [April 04, 2012, 07:37:58 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 07:37:58 PM »
    You might as well make Calc get Fire/Ice/Bolt/Cure 1 as well... It doesn't make much sense to take that away from the list.

    And... Geomancer might as well get a little boost in attack damage.

    Also: Leaving the individual abilities in would be nice. That would allow one to, say, give the individual monsters more pizazz. Panthers: Scratch gets 2 range like a leap (the animation would allow it ala 1.3 poison nail). Maybe the tentacle attacks get 2 or 3 range, but only linear... stuff like that. Give people the freedom to customise monsters' basic attacks instead of being cookie cutter. I understand it would free up space, but...

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    Eternal [Posts: 2999]
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    • [April 04, 2012, 08:40:37 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #13 on: April 04, 2012, 08:40:37 PM »
    Space isn't an issue at all. I have a ton of space and can make more very easily. I'm releasing an update tonight that fills out each monster's slots and fixes a few minor things.

    "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
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    • [April 04, 2012, 10:58:30 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #14 on: April 04, 2012, 10:58:30 PM »
    Also: Leaving the individual abilities in would be nice. That would allow one to, say, give the individual monsters more pizazz. Panthers: Scratch gets 2 range like a leap (the animation would allow it ala 1.3 poison nail). Maybe the tentacle attacks get 2 or 3 range, but only linear... stuff like that. Give people the freedom to customise monsters' basic attacks instead of being cookie cutter. I understand it would free up space, but...
    Well, if someone wanted to do that, they can just re-add them. But I guess this isn't a base patch then.
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    Eternal [Posts: 2999]
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    • [April 05, 2012, 12:36:41 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 12:36:41 AM »
    Updated to 1.1. Yay for no known glitches! I didn't go through this update like I did 1.0, so if you feel there are balance issues or bugs, lemme know!

    "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
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    Eternal [Posts: 2999]
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    • [April 05, 2012, 11:59:57 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 11:59:57 PM »
    PSP users rejoice- a PSP version of KO is halfway done. :)

    "You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
    Thief of Fate
    Argy [Posts: 239]
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    • [April 06, 2012, 05:04:30 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 05:04:30 AM »
    Excellent News Et, can't wait to try it out. Now if only the Patcher would recognise all of the WoTL exclusive items, that would be brilliant.

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    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 2999]
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    • [April 06, 2012, 07:05:18 AM]
    Physics student
    Rfh [Posts: 273]
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    • [April 06, 2012, 07:32:19 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Kind Of
    « Reply #19 on: April 06, 2012, 07:32:19 PM »
    Well, If you really want convert the vanilla FFT in the same, but a bit more rebalaced, I propose more ideas:

    Swordskills: I guess that Square wanted to do this skillset very powerful, but not Gods skills, basically is a more powerfull than normal attack with range, AoE and 25% infict staus. (LOL) And I would put Y value between 0 and 2, at least. And maybe 3 maximum range. Divine Swordskill needs Choto ASM hack if they do not want to be Gods skills.

    And about Geomancy I would put 5 in Y value and 5 range. Square wanted it to be a crappy skillset.

    Zodiac Summon I would put AoE 3, but with more weak.

    I would remove move+3, teleport 33% fail by extra square.
    Damage Split returns 33% of damage, blade grasph only block melee weapons, (This ability of reaction was a complaint by all fans of FFT) attack up, defense up, m. attack up and m. defense up need down to 25% or minus because they make be the unique support skills useful in the game.

    I don't like vanilla because it is VERY UNBALANCED. I prefer another games like Tactics Ogre o tactics A2 (although this also terrible things like Phoenix or Halve PM). ... But I love editing FFT.
    « Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 08:08:28 PM by Rfh »
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