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What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?

Ifrit - 2 (13.3%)
Carbuncle - 8 (53.3%)
Other (Specify) - 5 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Eternal [Posts: 3067]
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  • [February 24, 2012, 07:58:58 PM]
What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
« on: February 24, 2012, 07:58:58 PM »
See topic title.

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    Victor FrankeinSprite
    CONMAN [Posts: 307]
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    • [February 24, 2012, 09:37:17 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 09:37:17 PM »
    Do you have an image for this phoenix?  My curiousity is piqued....
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    • [February 24, 2012, 09:46:54 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 09:46:54 PM »
    Is the ability being replaced, or just the animation?
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    • [February 24, 2012, 09:49:19 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 09:49:19 PM »
    The ability. I don't have a screenshot on hand, but I can get one later.

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    • [February 24, 2012, 10:17:16 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 10:17:16 PM »
    What does the original do?  What do the replacements do?  What, all in all, does the summoner do?
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    Eternal [Posts: 3067]
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    • [February 24, 2012, 10:25:12 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 10:25:12 PM »
    Avatars replace Samurai. Basically, Avatars summon Eidolons by using Magicite. The current Eidolons are as follows:

    -Moogle
    -Ifrit
    -Shiva
    -Ramuh
    -Fat Chocobo
    -Sylph
    -Carbuncle
    -Diabolos
    -Odin
    -Zodiark

    Bahamut can be summoned freely by Reis as a human.

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    • [February 24, 2012, 10:56:58 PM]
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    • [February 24, 2012, 11:00:43 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 11:00:43 PM »
    Moogle restores every ally's HP, Ifrit does Fire damage in a wide AoE, Shiva deals Ice damage and may inflict Slow, Ramuh deals linear Thunder damage and Silence, Fat Chocobo deals heavy linear Earth damage, Sylph deals Wind damage to all enemies, Carbuncle inflicts a random buff on a wide area of allies, Diabolos deals Dark damage and Blind in a wide area, Odin may inflict Death in a line, and Zodiark deals heavy Dark damage in a wide AoE.

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    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
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    • [February 24, 2012, 11:26:33 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 11:26:33 PM »
    If phoenix is to revive, then carbunkle.  If phoenix will do some leet ass fire nuking, I'd replace Ifrit.  I'd keep the current breakdown of positive/negative already present for the summons. 

    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
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    • [February 24, 2012, 11:29:03 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 11:29:03 PM »
    Yeah, Phoenix will be the only means of full HP revival on a fallen unit (since it'll consume that Magicite, it should be worth it, IMO).

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    • [February 25, 2012, 07:31:25 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 07:31:25 PM »
    Is Phoenix AOE Arise?  Does it always consume Magicite?
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    • [February 25, 2012, 07:36:45 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 07:36:45 PM »
    Single target, will always consume.

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    • [February 25, 2012, 07:51:37 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 07:51:37 PM »
    I say replace Diabolos.  There's another dark damager, but there isn't really a way to buff allies, or really do anything with allies, (which is why you should keep Carbunkle) so your summoner could be standing around quite a bit.

    You need Ifrit as well, because you need a fire elemental spell.
    Panda_Tar [Posts: 97]
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    • [March 07, 2012, 04:17:02 AM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 04:17:02 AM »
    My vote would go to Another, instead of Salamander.

    (15) Old Summoning was:

    • Moogle
    • Shiva
    • Ifrit
    • Ramuh
    • Titan
    • Silph
    • Fairy
    • Lich
    • Odin
    • Carbunkle
    • Leviathan
    • Salamander
    • Bahamut
    • Cyclops
    • Zodiark

    (11) Now you propose:

    -Moogle
    -Ifrit
    -Shiva
    -Ramuh
    -Fat Chocobo (*slow motion* nooooo) ;)
    -Sylph
    -Carbuncle
    -Diabolos
    -Odin
    -Zodiark
    -Bahamut (through Reis)

    15 and now 11, will you fill in the gaps or the other 4? Seeing that Phoenix might come in the place of Salamander, which I pretty much agree seeing that Salamander spams fire element, you would have 12.

    1. Accordingly to your description, Odin may kill opponents. Does it also inflict damage? Physical or magical would that be?
    2. Suggestion: I assume you can make Zodiark not related to element description, and perhaps lowering a certain stat of targets, like breaking PA or MA. This is to avoid having 2 dark damage related beasts, like previously said. For Bahamut, due its visual appeal, it can have a small, perhaps 5%-10%, chance to banish targets from battle, sweep them away with the blast. So, it can keep being non elemental, like Zodiark, but each one with their particularities. But these debuffs shall not be too high.
    3. Suggestion: Have a Holy damaging summon. Alexander would be interesting if you consider linking it to GOUG machinery sidestory.
    4. Is it possible considering and making Carbunkle effect similar to what we see with him in FF IX and also with Fenrir? Depending on what your character had equipped, Carbunkle would inflict Reflect, or Haste, or Regen (don't remember exactly). Fenrir would inflict earth damage or wind damage, also depending on equipment.
    5. Suggestion: You might consider keeping 1 summoning for unique boss spell casting, at the final battles.
    6. Golem was very unbalacing, I always thought.
    7. Fairy was spamming cure powers. Better not having easy way to help party with 2 healing summoning with different powers.
    8. Lich was quite nice, visually speaking, but Diablos is better. ^^ Anyway, now you can use Lich sprites to rework some another, sinister spell.
    9. Salamander gives place to Phoenix.
    10. Cyclops gives place to Alexander.
    11. Leviathan wasn't mentioned, so I'd say it can be still around or not. It would complete the set of elemental effect though.

    So, the Summoning list would be like this:
    -Moogle
    -Ifrit
    -Shiva
    -Ramuh
    -Fat Chocobo
    -Sylph
    -Carbuncle (item flexible): haste, regen, reflect (default), transparent (if still in the game).
    -Phoenix
    -Diabolos
    -Odin
    -Alexander (though Madeen is more of my personal taste): holy damage on a wide AoE can cleanse affected enemies, dispelling bad ailments cast on them - yes, it helps them somehow, after kicking their asses with major holy damage
    -Zodiark
    -Bahamut (through Reis)
    -Knights of the Round (through Cloud): bringing forth this power would weaken Cloud massively, like spending 200 HP and 100 MP, so you'd have a multi-hit summon spell, hitting all units on battlefield including Cloud (so it's risky), friends and foe alike (5-7 hits), for physical/non element damage, with a rather elevated chance to miss, because knights just pass by on the battlefield, not really intending and focusing on each and every target OR Leviathan.

    -Venat (last bosses summoning example, not learnable) or Anima (other wordly thing that I most loved in FFX :) ) OR Leviathan.


    15 in total.

    Oh, for those who are not familiar with Venat and Anima, they're like this:


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    • [March 07, 2012, 04:23:48 AM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 04:23:48 AM »
    Interesting suggestions. I'm actually undecided on what I want -Diabolos- to do currently. Normally he does Gravity related stuff, currently he deals damage and inflicts Blind. If I made him do percentage damage, I'd have to make him Dark elemental. Therefore, I think your idea for MA/PA reduction would best be left to Diabolos. Still fits with his theme of debilitation, just in a different way. Honestly? I'd keep all the summons if I could. Sadly, I'm limited to 11 slots because I've replaced Draw Out with Summon (which is how they require Magicite). Bahamut is the only summon currently not to require Magicite, though I'm considering reintroducing Midgardsormr somehow.

    God, I'd love to see Anima in FFT. No idea if there'd be a decent image that would work for it though. Alexander too.

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    Panda_Tar [Posts: 97]
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    • [March 07, 2012, 04:36:54 AM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 04:36:54 AM »
    Ah, I see, now I understand the mechanics you used there. Well, Diabolos can then decrease target's PA or MA, or even inflicting MP damage? This way you don't worry with elemental based stuff. Other Summonings can be inserted on another characters or relate them to item effects, if possible, but let's see what we currently have then on your design of spending magicite. :) I really like this idea, mind you. Micromanagement of mechanics rather than only MP cost or CT is always welcome, ihmo.


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    • [March 07, 2012, 04:38:25 AM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #16 on: March 07, 2012, 04:38:25 AM »
    MP damage would actually be a very good idea. Maybe percentage-based MP damage? I think there's a formula for that. That way we get the best of both worlds.

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    Panda_Tar [Posts: 97]
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    • [March 07, 2012, 04:44:57 AM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #17 on: March 07, 2012, 04:44:57 AM »
    You can also consider that Diabolos being gravity like being, he can damage and suck in units together, causing a PUSH effect 1 square towards the central point of the spell casting on all affected targets. This way you can plan strategies over AoE spellcasting, and due the pushing effect, it might also cancel abilities that are being charged... *dreaming happily*

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    Valkirst [Posts: 161]
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    • [October 20, 2015, 11:59:52 PM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #18 on: October 20, 2015, 11:59:52 PM »
    I have a Diabolos summon replacement for Lich, here http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10468.msg199181#msg199181

    As for Phoenix I found this which I could work on once I get access to a computer within a month.

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    • [October 22, 2015, 02:27:11 AM]
    Re: What summon should be replaced for Phoenix?
    « Reply #19 on: October 22, 2015, 02:27:11 AM »
    Hmm, that's actually a pretty interesting Phoenix. I wonder how it'd look in-game.

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