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FFT - No Love for Generics  (Read 7164 times)
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Darkholme [Posts: 142]
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  • [March 31, 2011, 08:15:47 AM]
Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 08:15:47 AM »
That's an awesome idea; but what would you give it without ripping the abilities out of the other mages?
Durbs [Posts: 617]
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  • [March 31, 2011, 02:44:31 PM]
Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2011, 02:44:31 PM »
what would you give it without ripping the abilities out of the other mages?

You really can't, but the solution is simple. The base spells (cure, fire, ice, protect, etc) go to the first mage class (which I think should be a red mage), and the more specialized spells (eg Fire2/Fira, Protect2/Protectga) go to their corresponding next class up.

"Evanescence... what a sad word..." -Agrias Oaks

MysticKnightFF5
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  • [March 31, 2011, 08:17:48 PM]
Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2011, 08:17:48 PM »
I was thinking giving the Apprentice non-elemental magic, like magic missile and mana bolt.
Darkholme [Posts: 142]
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  • [March 31, 2011, 09:36:43 PM]
Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2011, 09:36:43 PM »
I wouldn't want to rip fire 1 out of bmage or cure 1 out of white mage; and I wouldn't want to have the abilities listed twice.

I like the idea of the non-elemental spells. So you're basically suggesting low level D&D wizard inspiration? Here are my possible suggestions for that route. It could really work.
 - Magic Missile (Low Damage, Never Misses)
 - Arcane Bolt (Higher Damage, has a miss chance)
 - Daze: 1-turn Don't Act. (Can we do that? Or does Don't Act always have the same duration regardless of which ability triggers it?)
 - Flare: 1-turn Don't Move. (Or 1 turn Blind, but blind does virtually nothing in FFT).\
 - Grease: Inflicts Oil (Short Term?).
 - Color Spray: Blind, Don't Move, Don't Act (random choice).

The question is do we want it balanced against the base squire? Or balanced like in 1.3 where all classes are more balanced with eachother? (I'm all for the 2nd option, but its definitely something that needs to be decided.)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 09:37:40 PM by Darkholme »
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  • MysticKnightFF5
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    • [April 01, 2011, 01:34:59 AM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #24 on: April 01, 2011, 01:34:59 AM »
    Balanced against squire. Let's face it, who the f*ck uses squire abilities beyond monster skill or ramza's set?
    I'ma Firin Mah Lazorz!
    RandMuadDib [Posts: 381]
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    • [April 01, 2011, 03:10:04 AM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #25 on: April 01, 2011, 03:10:04 AM »
    shit i rarely use ramza's set. i gave him lightning stab to make him interesting.

    I will show you the power of SARDIIIIINES!!!!
    Darkholme [Posts: 142]
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    • [April 01, 2011, 03:47:08 AM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #26 on: April 01, 2011, 03:47:08 AM »
    Arent squires de-crappified in 1.3? (I havent played it much beyond the first fight).

    Is there much point in even adding an Apprentice class if we're intentionally designing it to be something nobody will use? People used to use chemists. Squire gets replaced by special characters; but this class won't

    And if I'm/we're doing a "No love for Generics" mod (portrait # 2 of 14 done now btw. ;)) Then every character will have more stuff than base squire moves. Though I'm contemplating giving all of them Accumulate, Maybe Heal, too.

    « Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 03:49:52 AM by Darkholme »
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    • [April 01, 2011, 02:42:27 PM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #27 on: April 01, 2011, 02:42:27 PM »
    A) Yeah, but that means you need to buff squire, archer, and debuff calculator, and now you're just doing a rebalancing mod like everybody else.
    B) Don't give them either, that'd be just messed up rigged :\
    Darkholme [Posts: 142]
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    • [April 02, 2011, 05:21:29 AM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #28 on: April 02, 2011, 05:21:29 AM »
    A) Well; not quite. I'm not just talking about a rebalancing mod. I was saying it depends what you're taking as your base:

    i) If you're taking the rebalance mod as a starting point (1.3 Easytype, FFT Rebirth, Etc), then You want one that doesn't suck.

    ii) If you're taking vanilla as the starting point, then I'd argue if you think it should be as crappy as squire it's not worth attempting - I'd say being as good as chemists with item were should be the balance point if it's to be attempted at all in that case.

    If you want to be able to handle both scenarios, Give them a good selection of abilities for vanilla, and just give them crappy-ish damage or to-hit rates. then if you are to add them to a rebalance mod, buff the numbers. It's no secret that a few of the jobs have either shit skillsets or shit growths.

    B)
    i) Ramza gets them, and he's not that great.
    ii) You wouldnt be balancing them against generic squires; because you'd never get generic squires.
    iii) It would make Mustadio's skillset suck less if he had those two things; Though maybe the stronger named characters don't need the boost.

    Alot of the named characters are basically the same class with one or two unique abilities. Delita 2 (cant remember what 3 gets), Gafgarian, Agrias, Orlandeau, and a few others.
    « Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 05:31:29 AM by Darkholme »
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    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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    • [April 02, 2011, 10:01:22 PM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #29 on: April 02, 2011, 10:01:22 PM »
    Yes, Mustadio could definitely use a buff.

    Also, I agree that it wouldn't be wise to try to balance it against Squire (at least the other Squires that people have done) even if Squire were still in just because physical classes have different needs than magical classes.

    I like the idea of the non-elemental spells. So you're basically suggesting low level D&D wizard inspiration? Here are my possible suggestions for that route. It could really work.
     - Magic Missile (Low Damage, Never Misses)
     - Arcane Bolt (Higher Damage, has a miss chance)
     - Daze: 1-turn Don't Act. (Can we do that? Or does Don't Act always have the same duration regardless of which ability triggers it?)
     - Flare: 1-turn Don't Move. (Or 1 turn Blind, but blind does virtually nothing in FFT).\
     - Grease: Inflicts Oil (Short Term?).
     - Color Spray: Blind, Don't Move, Don't Act (random choice).

    Despite not having ever played it, D&D seems like a decent enough inspiration. To answer your questions with regards to abilities, Don't Act would always have the same duration, there's a Blind hack by FFMaster to make Blind a static accuracy drop rather than dependent on evasion and Oil currently can't take a duration.

    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    MysticKnightFF5
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    • [April 02, 2011, 11:28:31 PM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #30 on: April 02, 2011, 11:28:31 PM »
    Just give mustadio headshot for instant kill and he'll be buffed plenty XD
    Darkholme [Posts: 142]
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    • [April 03, 2011, 04:29:50 AM]
    Re: FFT - No Love for Generics
    « Reply #31 on: April 03, 2011, 04:29:50 AM »
    Just give mustadio headshot for instant kill and he'll be buffed plenty XD
    oic what you did there. lol.
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