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Poll

Would you give up damage on Enchanter skills for a much higher chance to hit?

No, never. They need to deal damage. - 0 (0%)
I'll take a basic PA*WP on all the skills if I can get 100% proc on the weaker status effects and 25% on the powerful ones. - 3 (42.9%)
I'd give up all damage but only for a 100% chance on the status effect. - 1 (14.3%)
Yes, I'd give up the damage for anything more reliable. - 2 (28.6%)
Other - Explain below please. - 1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7


CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll  (Read 4978 times)
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Queen of Palemoon
Celdia [Posts: 1642]
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  • [February 23, 2011, 10:34:33 PM]
CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« on: February 23, 2011, 10:34:33 PM »
So I'm getting feedback that people don't like the Enchanter so much anymore. Let's fix it. My current idea is leading me to change their skills back up again and I want to know if removing damage from their skills would be a good trade for getting a high chance to make those status effects stick. You can see the poll at the top. Vote accordingly. If you have other ideas, let's hear them.
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [February 23, 2011, 10:47:22 PM]
dinosaur [Posts: 453]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 12:08:25 AM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 12:08:25 AM »
Enchanter = Oracle?   ... maybe
Queen of Palemoon
Celdia [Posts: 1642]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 04:46:22 AM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 04:46:22 AM »
Formula 2D is exactly what they were before I switched them to weapon damage. I do personally feel that the 100% proc on 2D is a little over the top, especially on things like the Petrify skill.
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 04:44:58 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 04:44:58 PM »
You can still have skills be 25% Proc with 2D for more powerful Status like Petrify.  Flag the Status as Separate instead of Random or All or Nothing.  That's how Swordskills in Vanilla work, after all.
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 04:49:25 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 04:49:25 PM »
We talked about this last night and Celdia was more concerned about the damage obviating--I keep using that word lately--the need to normally attack rather than 100% thing. Although is still rather annoying to still only be able to do 100%, 25% or 6.25% when it comes to applying status if you want any applied at all.

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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 04:51:23 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 04:51:23 PM »
MP costs.  Unless MP is a stat that's mostly there for novelty in CCP the way it is in Vanilla, solid MP costing fixes the Attack Command issue.

(Note to self - play more CCP sometime, I don't get enough time to play things lately.)
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 04:54:05 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 04:54:05 PM »
Oh, I suggested the same thing. I can understand the weariness even with MP costs, though.

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
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Celdia [Posts: 1642]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 05:38:06 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 05:38:06 PM »
Hm. Maybe I should just go back to using Formula 2D. I know originally it bothered me because it wasn't MA-based but these are weapon attacks. That they're enhanced by a magic skill doesn't necessarily mean that they need to be MA-based on damage. I mean...just how powerful can PA*WP get, right? -_- Paired with only giving 25% on the more dangerous status effects and going back to my original MP costs (or even higher for some) might not be a bad idea.

*edits poll*
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 05:39:52 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 05:39:52 PM »
Yeah, it shouldn't be too bad. Also, given what you showed me about the ARH last night (thanks again for that), it might be slightly problematic with regards to Brawler since you can't forbid barefists from being Enchanted.

Not sure how to fix that. (And once again, Monks screw up everything. How surprising.)

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 05:41:58 PM]
Queen of Palemoon
Celdia [Posts: 1642]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 05:43:22 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 05:43:22 PM »
Yeah, Monks shouldn't be a problem with their lack of WP to multiply against. Hell, I'll have to check to see if they do any damage at all under that formula.

I reset the poll and added a new option based on all this. Feel free to vote again (if it lets you. I assume it does.)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:44:36 PM by Celdia »
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [February 24, 2011, 05:43:33 PM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 05:43:33 PM »
Oh right. Nevermind then. Just someone blinded by seething hatred.

Nothing to see here. (Oh, this reminds me I still need to look up something....)

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
Scearcely [Posts: 51]
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  • [February 25, 2011, 01:02:04 AM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 01:02:04 AM »
Quote
just how powerful can PA*WP get, right?
you haven't changed very many weapons, PA*WP maxes out at 99*40 or about 3960 damage

ok ok, 99 PA isn't happening,  a more realistic high-end PA for a level 99 is ~20 for 800 damage and getting even that high would be leveling in knight or mime exclusively.  you need to have 25 PA to 999 everything with a PA*WP formula, doable but god it'd be a pain to setup.

personally balancing for anything above level 50 or so is pointless unless you have enemies with fixed levels that high.  12*40 is 480, again that takes a chaos blade, and second place is javelin+(30) at 360 followed by excalibur(24) at 288.

not sure if chaos would be a one-shot at 50(doubtful) but excalibur won't be.
and none of this is attainable if you actually level as an enchater or its pre-req classes or even play as enchanter

There is one big worry, with a longbow/dagger, PA*WP is STRONGER than a regular attack once your PA passes your SP(6 or so)

all this says to me, mp costs for imbues will need to go up pretty significantly
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Celdia [Posts: 1642]
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  • [February 25, 2011, 02:01:08 AM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 02:01:08 AM »
I did have a big rant here about Enchanters with the Two Guns support and using the Magic Guns (256 damage with one as a normal attack on a neutral compat, so 512 damage with a pair of them) but then I realized that going from WP^2 to PA*WP with those may just be a drawback using these skills. Especially if I drop the PAM on Enchanter to something like 50. Same with Gunslinger, as it would help make abusing Two Guns with Imbue just for damage a lot harder...and I think that's what I'll do with the next update. Unless there is a grand cry for "No Damage + Higher Proc %" or something.
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Celdia [Posts: 1642]
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  • [February 26, 2011, 11:44:59 AM]
Re: CCP v1.7x - Enchanter Skills Poll
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2011, 11:44:59 AM »
Okay, between discussion here, on chat and the results of the poll along with some help from FDC that finally got me what I really wanted to implement in some capacity, I've decided I'm definitely going back to Formula 2D for the Enchanter skills and try the 100% proc on some and leave it 25% for Petrify since that's the nastiest of the bunch. Regardless, there will be a change coming for Enchanter and hopefully it will be a positive one.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 11:46:11 AM by Celdia »
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