Main Site

Forum Index

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Don't be hasty to start your own mod; all our FFT modding projects are greatly understaffed. Find out how you can help in the Recruitment section.

Poll

Phaseshifter(?) or Monstars!?

Merge bard/dancer, introduce new class? - 8 (88.9%)
Give more stuff to performers (and leftovers to monsters) - 1 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2011, 11:09:27 PM


Pages: [1] 2 3
Likes to move it move it.
philsov [Posts: 4598]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [January 05, 2011, 11:09:27 PM]
Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
« on: January 05, 2011, 11:09:27 PM »
Simply put, there are still about 14 or so spare ability slots.  I want to keep a very small amount around (4-6) as blanks for future development, but this frees up 8-10 slots that I still have no clue what to do with.

My initial instinct was to pump up the number of monster abilities to help diversify the tiers and give elements/range/proc/etc to their to-be unique-but-currently-normal "attack" commands.  

But then I looked at the dancer and the bard and with Slow Dance / Speed Song removed from the game, each of these classes boasts a whopping 6 skills.  On top of that, in keeping with one of the ideas of ASM'd, Song/Dance are losing their map-wide effects in exchange for a large self AoE.  A simple solution to the song/dance problem would be to just combine these into a single skillset.  With 12 skills and both offensive and defensive options, Performers as a whole would see more use imo.  This of course leaves a gaping hole on the job wheel.  It's an easy solution but it creates a new problem. (Well, not a problem per se, just something undesireable)

So... in keeping with another idea of ASM'd (show off what we can do), with the use of the Ability Requirement Hack I can create the Phaseshifter(?) class, who is able to both activate and cancel the "cursed looking" status, which is either required or prevents his abilities.  Cursed version is of course darker, focusing on self-harm, large single-target damage, and negative status.  Light side is more defensive dealing with HP curing, light AoE, and positive status.

Meanwhile, I can also throw in two additional abilities into bard/dancer and then pump the rest into monsters as above.  But I'm at a loss on what exactly to give dancers.

Bard:
Requiem - High % chance to sleep/damage/something undead
War Song - Grants 5 Br to everyone in the area

Dancer:
Sword Dance - Self AoE 1 dealing normal melee damage to everything in sight (its like wave around, only it's not)
????

~

Note: I think most other classic FF classes are redundant with the current scheme with the notable exception of Scholar but I just can't think of enough worthwhile and unique abilities to justify giving him a spin.

But, enough blather!  Vote!  It closes in two weeks and the majority will rule.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 11:14:50 PM by philsov »
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
May I kill him?
Pride [Posts: 839]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [January 05, 2011, 11:13:30 PM]
Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 11:13:30 PM »
The only reason why I don't like the idea of the "phaseshifter" is that the ai would be completely unable to use the job. And because of this, I'd rather see the performers gain new abilities along with monsters. 

    • Modding version: PSX
    • Check out my ASM thread. Who doesn't like hax?
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 05, 2011, 11:17:05 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 11:17:05 PM »
    A bandaid for this would be to introduce a new accessory that is initial:cursed looking and forcing that on several of them as they're encountered.  But, yes, it's something to be considered. 

    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    ALL THE THINGS Official Caretaker.
    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 06, 2011, 02:55:47 AM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 02:55:47 AM »
    Quote
    This of course leaves a gaping hole on the job wheel.  It's an easy solution but it creates a new problem. (Well, not a problem per se, just something undesireable)

    How doe this leave a gaping hole in the Job Wheel, precisely?

    Merge Bard and Dancer, make both skillsets contain all the various "Performer" skills, tweak their prerequisites to be the same, call it a day.  Just because they're technically two different classes on the Job Wheel doesn't mean they can't be made to seem like the same one.  Plus, gimmicky classes like Phaseshifters have no business being on the generic Job Wheel when every other class isn't a giant walking gimmick, and the AI issues mean that they'll always only be able to use half the skillset, meaning even a band-aid fix means any introduced is only working at 50% capacity.

    Thus, my vote is quite literally fuck both Poll options, Merge Bard/Dancer, give more Monster abilities.  You have a few breeds of monsters that would greatly benefit from the added skills, after all.  Then again you're talking to the insane bastard who dedicates 8 skills to each Monster, but even 6 each works plenty.

    • Modding version: PSX
    		•
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 06, 2011, 03:35:28 AM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 03:35:28 AM »
    [Out of curiosity, I must ask two questions:

    • If you went with the monster option, does this mean that monsters would have more than 4 attacks, including the Monster Skill one, per monster? Or would you "only" be diversifying their Attacks as you said?
    • Personally, what "niche" do you feel like the Phaseshifter is adding to the game that is a suitable "replacement" for either Bard or Dancer (assuming that the class you're adding in is going to be one that only a single sex can access)? What other classes have you considered?


    As it stands, I sort of agree with Raven, but I need more input before I can actually "vote" on anything.
    « Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 07:44:50 PM by The Damned »
    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM »
    Quote
    If you went with the monster option, does this mean that monsters would have more than 4 attacks, including the Monster Skill one, per monster? Or would you "only" be diversifying their Attacks as you said?

    Both.  Monster skill is something I'd like to keep at one per family.  I would be modifying their "attack" command and/or giving them an additional ability to be used within their skillset.  As of right now most monsters are following this scheme:

    attack / skill 1 / skill 2 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 3 / MS
    attack / skill 2 / skill 3 / MS  
     
    With 10-ish free slots this enables either a 5th ability to be throw into the mix with for single-tier-unique ability, or a custom attack command (Necrotic Touch, Throw Spirit, etc.).  However I'm a whore for symmetry, so if 5th abilities were introduced they'd be similar to the tree scheme of:

    attack / skill 1 / skill 2 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 3 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 4 / MS

    And I don't know how much more effective that'd be.  

    Quote
    Personally, what "niche" do you feel like the Phaseshifter is adding to the game that is a suitable "replacement" for either Bard or Dancer (assuming that the class you're adding in is going to be one that only a single sex can access)? What other classes have you considered?

    No niche, just supplemental to well... everything without being able to do everything at the exact same time.  

    As for other classes, I'm not about to list them all but I don't want something hybrid-y (Mystic Knight, Red Mage), all the direct casters are taken care of, and finding a niche within the physicals is difficult.  

    Actually, on thinking to FFTA Templar might be a good choice?

    Or I can just Mu it all.
    « Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 03:59:16 PM by philsov »
    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 06, 2011, 08:42:36 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 08:42:36 PM »
    Sorry. I would have responded sooner, but I only woke up a couple of hours ago and this damn song has been distracting me.

    Quote from: philsov on January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    Both.  Monster skill is something I'd like to keep at one per family.  I would be modifying their "attack" command and/or giving them an additional ability to be used within their skillset.  As of right now most monsters are following this scheme:

    attack / skill 1 / skill 2 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 3 / MS
    attack / skill 2 / skill 3 / MS  
     
    With 10-ish free slots this enables either a 5th ability to be throw into the mix with for single-tier-unique ability, or a custom attack command (Necrotic Touch, Throw Spirit, etc.).  However I'm a whore for symmetry, so if 5th abilities were introduced they'd be similar to the tree scheme of:

    attack / skill 1 / skill 2 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 3 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 4 / MS

    And I don't know how much more effective that'd be.

    Ah, I see. I had suspected that was your meaning as well.

    Also, nice to see that someone else is symmetry's bitch too. I probably get far more annoyed than you about asymmetry things--I'll try not to go off into a tangent while typing this--and such, so it's nothing too atypical even if it could be a bit dull in this instance. Still, considering your overhauling things, it'd probably be easier to ultimately test them.

    Anyway, if that's the case, wouldn't you need 11 skills given that only four monsters (Ghouls, Woodfolk, Hydras and...something else I can't remember) have atypical "attack" commands. Or would you be screwing over one of the (lesser) monster classes by just not giving them a fifth skill?

    Hmm...this makes me realize that know I know what skills you're at least generally giving to monsters, meaning that I can start posting (almost singularly) in that battle suggestion thread again. Hurray.

    Quote from: philsov on January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    No niche, just supplemental to well... everything without being able to do everything at the exact same time.

    So, basically, like Red Mage, only with Curse/Dark/Evil-Looking status focus and not as blatantly thieving? How does the AI react to the Curse/Dark/Evil-Looking status as it is? And, again, what would it be replacing?

    Quote from: philsov on January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    As for other classes, I'm not about to list them all but I don't want something hybrid-y (Mystic Knight, Red Mage), all the direct casters are taken care of, and finding a niche within the physicals is difficult.

    I guess I should have been a lot more direct and just asked "Did you look at FFCompendium's Jobs List and just not see anything remotely interesting?"

    Quote from: philsov on January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    Actually, on thinking to FFTA Templar might be a good choice?

    I'm giving FFTA Templar a try, but that was more a necessity due to getting rid of 6 jobs (well, technically only 4) and changing up 3 others. I've yet to test them, of course, and they were having work with Silence as Addle (though it may change back). Actually, let me look at my notes to see what I gave them if I can find it.

    Please hold.

    *waiting music plays*

    ....

    Okay. Found it. *coughs* Damn dust.

    I had forgotten that I actually got around to successfully making a Word document for it and all other generics before I stopped. Anyway, I kind of had problems thinking of what given them considering the amount of other skills I wanted to give other classes, even with all the classes I tore apart/destroyed/got rid of. They ended up having only 8 skills, pretty much all of them being anti-magic and only one being physical. This is despite the fact that they're supposed to be a physical, heavy-armored, spear-wielding class (with all Spears having been buffed, but still needing to be tested)--keep in mind that Oracle was one of the classes I killed:

    1. Osmose (Spell Absorb)
    2. Apostatize (Doubt Faith)
    3. Berserk (Blind Rage)
    4. Magic Ruin [Note: My Knights don't have the Ruin skills; otherwise should act like 1.3 Magic Ruin]
    5. Confuse (Confusion Song) [EDIT: Actually, this should be Addle/Silence, not Confuse, b/c we know how AI is w/ Confuse & Death Sentence]
    6. Zombie [Note: Was considering making this add both Undead and Curse/Dark/Evil-Looking]
    7. Astra (Foxbird) [Note: According to my Notepad doc from Apr., this adds ST Reflect & Regen]
    8. Debarrier (blank spot between Meteor[ain] and above Blind) [Note: Wpn-based ST-Cancel: Protect, Shell & Reflect; currently meant to require Sword or Spear]


    Meh. I'm sure you can think of something superior (if you even think the class could fit) given your body of work and the lack of overlap on your classes thus far.

    Quote from: philsov on January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    Or I can just Mu it all.

    All ends and begins with Mu.

    ...Wait. Wrong game and wrong consonant.
    « Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 09:00:22 PM by The Damned »
    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    GeneralStrife [Posts: 1442]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 06, 2011, 08:52:24 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 08:52:24 PM »
    Voted new class, not many votes yet though
    ALL THE THINGS Official Caretaker.
    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 06, 2011, 10:19:13 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 10:19:13 PM »
    Quote from: philsov on January 06, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    attack / skill 1 / skill 2 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 3 / MS
    attack / skill 1 / skill 4 / MS

    And I don't know how much more effective that'd be.

    Do that.  Done well it works rather nicely.  It's what I was doing until I realized I had enough room to do 1 / 2 / 7 / MS - 3 / 4 / 7 / MS - 5 / 6 / 7 / MS.

    • Modding version: PSX
    		•
    pokeytax [Posts: 515]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 07, 2011, 10:15:22 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 10:15:22 PM »
    No contest for me, new generic class trumps all, Performer even has precedent in FFX-2.

    My dream class is a Chocobo Knight. As with Blue Mage and learn-on-hit, much of the functionality is there, if all-but-unused (seriously, it's not even mentioned in the BMG!). I would be happy to hack a few things if you can decide how to make the class viable (I know, it's not easy to balance a one-for-two). I'm pretty sure the ARH could be tweaked to detect mounted flag and mount job.

    I'm not as down on the shifter as everyone else (Lune Knight? Cecilish Paladin/Dark Knight?). But I don't think you should worry so much about filling a niche - if they're all filled, all the more reason to go fresh and fun.
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 08, 2011, 06:23:00 AM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 06:23:00 AM »
    Ha, I was totally going to say that I remember the BMG did have a section on Learn On Hit, but I looked at it again and all it has a brief section (6.4) of what can be learned on hit. It doesn't even talk about what gets in the way of Learn on Hit. Boy, I remember that being "fun" to test out for Blue Mage....

    Anyway, out of curiosity (and since we're throwing around ideas here anyway), what exactly would a "Chocobo Knight" entail, pokeytax?

    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    pokeytax [Posts: 515]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 08, 2011, 02:14:44 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 02:14:44 PM »
    A reason to ride a chocobo. Right now all the functionality is there, but it's broken by the numbers - it's never worth sacrificing a unit in order to get Move +2 and some status immunity. At least Learn-on-Hit gets a subsection in the BMG, riding doesn't even get a mention! I don't know if I can give the Chocobo a turn without breaking things, but something like increased CT/HP would be a start.

    The FFTA2 Chocobo Knight class gets different abilities based on the color Chocobo being ridden, so I was gonna start there.

    Of course, you could always make Chocobos worthwhile to ride in general and skip the gimmick class. I just love gimmick classes, is my problem.
    Gotwald [Posts: 224]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 08, 2011, 02:54:15 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 02:54:15 PM »
    Quote from: pokeytax on January 08, 2011, 02:14:44 PM
    The FFTA2 Chocobo Knight class gets different abilities based on the color Chocobo being ridden, so I was gonna start there.

    They also were still riding the chocobo in the formation screen after a battle; unless you can rig that I don't know what else can be done for a chocobo knight.

    -- Attention Citizens, this is the Computer. 2 + 2 now equals 3.9999238849009985. Please recalibrate your equipment.

     My youtube Channel
    My 1.3 Playthough (Complete)
    My Final fantasy I Blind playthrough
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 08, 2011, 03:38:37 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 03:38:37 PM »
    OK, did some thinking:

    1) Bard and Dancer ARE getting merged.
    2) Phaseshifter sucks

    So... the choice is 19 generic classes with expanded monsters or 20 generic classes and standard monsters.  And, if new class, what class?  Note: new class will be either male or female-only.  

    Quote
    "Did you look at FFCompendium's Jobs List and just not see anything remotely interesting?"

    Not particularly, no >_>.

    Regarding a chocoknight, making the mount worthwhile would be... a large undertaking for the reasons you spoke of (2 for 1), but if you have the capability to tweak the ARH to check for mounted that'd be a great place to start.  I'm less concerned about different abilities on different chocobos than just "abilities while on chocobos" in general.

    And while mounting isn't really mentioned in the BMG, Notti gave it a nod in his Deep Dungeon guide (it's horribly misnamed, but whatever) in a lovely section entitled "Hi-ho Boco! Away!"

    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    ALL THE THINGS Official Caretaker.
    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 08, 2011, 04:14:58 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 04:14:58 PM »
    19 Classes, Better Monsters seems far superior with the rate things are going.

    • Modding version: PSX
    		•
    pokeytax [Posts: 515]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 08, 2011, 04:44:26 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 04:44:26 PM »
    Quote from: philsov on January 08, 2011, 03:38:37 PM
    Note: new class will be either male or female-only.

    Forgot about that. That's a pain. If you already have an idea of where to go with the monsters, maybe you should just go with that, since nobody seems to really know what to do with an extra generic (Chocoknight is a big undertaking).
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 09, 2011, 03:40:12 AM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 03:40:12 AM »
    Now, now, pokeytax. Don't be hasty.

    I've at least some ideas besides Templar.

    Quote from: philsov on January 08, 2011, 03:38:37 PM
    OK, did some thinking:

    1) Bard and Dancer ARE getting merged.
    2) Phaseshifter sucks

    Well, I wouldn't say that Phaseshifter flat out sucks (especially considering some of the ideas that have flown around FFH, including "lol Swordskill Ramza"). It's merely that its niche or gimmick, whichever one you prefer to call it, is one that can't be exploited by the AI. (Or can it? I don't think the AI can use or even really recognizes the Dark/Evil-Looking/Curse status, but I can't exactly remember.)

    That said, do you plan on making the amalgam class of Bard and Dancer--I guess we're calling it Performer--just a straight amalgam of abilities? Or are you going to overhaul Song and Dance abilities a bit too?

    Also, at present, are you planning to make Performer female-only or male-only?

    Quote
    So... the choice is 19 generic classes with expanded monsters or 20 generic classes and standard monsters.  And, if new class, what class?  Note: new class will be either male or female-only.

    At present, I'm going with 20 generic classes and standard monsters, if only because you've yet to even fully flesh out (and I'm guessing test out) standard monsters. Kind of difficult for me to fully get behind an expanded monster idea when the regular monsters have yet to be fleshed out entirely. I'm not saying that to belittle you or anything given that I know that modding monsters (or, hell, any type of significant amount of modding) is a difficult process even with Patcher and orgASM.

    That explained, going back to what you intend for Performer, would it be still be filling the niche of "trying to get male classes to use spell-casting jobs" or "trying to get female classes to use PA-based jobs"?

    I have to know which (if either) before I bother saying anything else.

    Quote
    Not particularly, no >_>.

    Blatant lies!
    « Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 03:47:13 AM by The Damned »
    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    Likes to move it move it.
    philsov [Posts: 4598]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 09, 2011, 04:04:21 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #17 on: January 09, 2011, 04:04:21 PM »
    Quote
    just a straight amalgam of abilities? Or are you going to overhaul Song and Dance abilities a bit too?

    Pretty much straight amalgam.  Nameless Song is now separate effects with a lower raise but lost the potential for reraise.  Nameless Dance got a similar treatment and lost some of the heavier statii (frog, petrify... I think that's it).  Last Dance got removed for Sword Dance because CT00 abilities are vile against single bosses... and that's about it.  They've still got the skeleton of HP/MP/PA/MA/status/something.  They may gain the two bardish abilities mentioned in the OP if there is space as well. 

    At the present what gender the performer is will be and its job requirements will be more determined on what the new class is than anything else.

    Quote
    you've yet to even fully flesh out (and I'm guessing test out) standard monsters.

    The animations/effects still need some tweaking but the mechanical stuff is input and it plays out wonderfully (but I'm biased).  I don't want to do a full flesh out until I'm finalizing, and if I include these monster changes then I'm still at the input stages, no?

    Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
    Unreliable as a Mime.
    The Damned [Posts: 2168]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 09, 2011, 10:35:02 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #18 on: January 09, 2011, 10:35:02 PM »
    Eh. We all know the input stage is pretty large and considering we can't see what you can (obviously), all we have to off of is the Monsters thread, where at least a few monsters are still incomplete and more still are uncertain. So I'm merely saying that if you're having a difficult time thinking of appropriate and different abilities for all monsters as is, which is legitimately difficult, then (personally) it's a bit difficult for me to get completely behind a "give monsters even more abilities", even it would just be one more; that's essentially just going to be a different regular "Attack" is interesting/flavorful, but doesn't exactly drive me wild either.

    That said, it's good to hear that monsters are testing well regardless.

    With regards to Performer, if you're killing Last Dance (which is pretty necessary), I'm assuming that you're killing both Cheer Song and Slow Dance as well. Would that be correct? As such, I'm assuming that Performer looks like this at present:

    • Angel Song - Range nerfed like everything else. No other changes.
    • Life Song - See above.
    • Battle Song - See above.
    • Magic Song - See above.
    • War Song - Replaces Cheer Song. Currently seems asymmetrical without a Faith-raising song.
    • Nameless Song - Got nerfed a bit by losing Reraise and range, though the AI will probably still favor it over Life Song due to Regen.
    • Last Song - Range got nerfed. No other changes.
    • Witch Hunt - See above (though it probably needs a buff).
    • With Knives/Wiznaibus - See above (though it definitely needs a buff, especially with Swords Dance around now).
    • Polka Polka - See above.
    • Disillusion - See above.
    • Sword Dance - Replaces Slow Dance.
    • Nameless Dance - Got nerfed by losing Frog and Petrify as well as range.
    • Requiem - Replaces Last Dance.


    Anyway, despite your (warranted) ambivalence towards the gender issue, I'm going to assume that Performers will end up being male if they end up being either gender. I assume this only because I also did much the same thing (through I ultimately ended up trying to combine Dancer with something else) and Bards failed (slightly) less than Dancers when it came to justifying males using magic classes since Bards are like Priests who ignore Faith. (This compared to Dancers, who felt like no physical class and instead played like Oracles with Ninja-esque evasion.)

    So, that raises two more questions:

    • What should the PA-based female-only class be?
    • Will the male-only and female-only classes still have the exact same reactions, supports and movements? Should they?


    While waiting for you to confirm what I've said, I'll be brainstorming the former--I sort of an idea already beyond what I ended up doing, which I can't suggest since I switched up pretty much every single class rather than just slight shifts of things.

    "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

    "Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
    ALL THE THINGS Official Caretaker.
    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
    • View Profile
    • share
    • [January 09, 2011, 10:43:31 PM]
    Re: Leftover ability slots - new generic class or perk performers/monsters?
    « Reply #19 on: January 09, 2011, 10:43:31 PM »
    Quote from: The Damned on January 09, 2011, 10:35:02 PM
    So I'm merely saying that if you're having a difficult time thinking of appropriate and different abilities for all monsters as is, which is legitimately difficult, then (personally) it's a bit difficult for me to get completely behind a "give monsters even more abilities", even it would just be one more; that's essentially just going to be a different regular "Attack" is interesting/flavorful, but doesn't exactly drive me wild either.

    To be honest, more slots to work with makes things easier - you don't have to deal with that stupid and stilted ability spread that results in things like a Skeleton with two X-Soul skills.  When you can go "okay, everyone will have this skill and this skill, and this skill makes each tier unique", the job is honestly a lot easier than "okay... this guy gets these skills... this guy gets this and that... the third guy gets that and a new skill too, though not everything's meshing quite right..."

    That's from my experience anyway.  The main reason I at least personally prefer giving monsters more skills to work with is because it makes actually balancing how they spread far easier.
    « Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 10:44:05 PM by RavenOfRazgriz »
    • Modding version: PSX
    		•
    Pages: [1] 2 3