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White Knight Wiegraf [Posts: 271]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1720 on: June 29, 2015, 08:53:54 PM »
I'll go ahead and paste something from the BMG here.

[MOD 6] ~ magical attacks : success rate variable
-------------------------------------------------
Let MA0 be the caster's MA as listed on the status screen, and Y be the constant component of the spell's success rate formula. For instance, for Death, Y = 100.

1. If caster has 'Strengthen: [element of spell]', then (MA1 = [MA0 * 5/4]) else MA1 = MA0
2. If caster has Magic AttackUP, then (MA2 = [MA1 * 4/3]), else MA2 = MA1
3. If target has Magic DefendUP, then (MA3 = [MA2 * 2/3]), else MA3 = MA2
4. If target has Shell, then (MA4 = [MA3 * 2/3]), else MA4 = MA3

If compatibility is 'Good', then Z = [MA4 / 8] + [Y / 8]
ElseIf compatibility is 'Bad', then Z = -[MA4 / 8] - [Y / 8]
ElseIf compatibility is 'Best', then Z = [MA4 / 4] + [Y / 4]
ElseIf compatibility is 'Worst', then Z = -[MA4 / 4] - [Y / 4]
Else, Z = 0
6. Apply the spell's success% formula as follows:
success% = [(CFa+35) * (TFa+35) * (MA4 + Y + Z)) / 10000]
If caster or target has Faith status, then CFa = 100 or TFa = 100,
respectively.  If caster or target has Innocent status, then CFa = 0
or TFa = 0, respectively.

Edited: Added Arena calculations for Zodiac/Faith.

This reminds me, I'd like a staff actually designed for the Time Mages, since they can't use any other weapon types. A Dark equivalent of the Mace of Zeus, for example. All you see on them are Healing Staves for the Speed boost.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 11:51:12 PM by White Knight Wiegraf »
• Modding version: PSX
• Gaignun [Posts: 532]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1721 on: July 01, 2015, 12:11:03 PM »
A few more thoughts:

Reduce Carbuncle's MP cost from 5 to 0: From my observations, the AI prioritizes most other actions over Carbuncle, even if those actions reduce its MP below 5.  In this event, Carbuncle cannot perform the task it was assigned to do.  To accommodate this stupidity, I recommend that Carbuncle's MP cost be removed.  This will have the added benefit of becoming the only way mages can self-recover from being nuked by Bizen Boat, which will make Summon Magic more attractive.

Redesign headbands? Echoing The Damned's sentiments, what I currently see is a super-awesome headband (Chakra) and two normal ones (Focus and Choice).
Currently:
• Chakra Band provides the status resistance of a full suit of armor, turning monks into anti-Mediator and anti-Oracle wrecking machines, and is a natural choice on monk builds of all kinds.
• Choice Band could work on specialized teams that emphasize winning battles quickly with a first strike, but in most cases, Haste is supplied and sustained in other ways.
• Focus Band gives +80 MP, so it allows Monks to be used as mages.  However, to be used so, the monk requires high Faith and becomes vulnerable to status magic, which makes Chakra Band more attractive.
Regardless of how far these headbands are redesigned, could we at least add few status immunities -- particularly ones benefit mages, such as Silence and Berserk -- to Focus Band and remove these immunities from Chakra Band where appropriate?  We can reduce Focus Band's HP to compensate.

Buff Fairy in some way:  In most cases, the +33% HP revival of Fairy is not enough to keep the resurrected units from dying again to a single blow.  Furthermore, in teams that rely on Fairy for resurrection , and especially on large maps where units are spread out, Fairy will often be cast on a single fallen unit, so the skill's 1 AoE is seldom utilized.  In such cases, Fairy is about as useful as a very expensive Phoenix Down.  It heals for less than Raise, but costs +100 JP and +10 MP and has -25% accuracy.

I think increasing the heal to 50% would be more than enough to make Fairy, as well as Summon Magic as a whole, an effective method for damage control.  I do not expect this buff to overshadow Raise and White Magic, especially if Protect, Shell, or Regen are buffed as well.

Also, some bug checks:

Sinkhole: This skill seems to heal the undead.  Does it share a property with Blood Sword?
Break skills and Two Swords: When Shield Break succeeds on the first hit, the second hit becomes a physical attack.  Conversely, when the other break skills succeed on the first hit, the second hit displays "Break" once more.  Which function is intended?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 01:50:14 PM by Gaignun »
Barren [Posts: 2582]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1722 on: July 01, 2015, 01:49:58 PM »
I was thinking for the choice band should have HP Increased to 80 and gain innocent, faith, don't move, silence, poison, oil, and petrify protection. Maybe have initial haste removed so that way it can be a bit balanced.

You can choose between which status are you more concerned about. I think the choice band might be useful for elemental absorb + anti-oil tactics considering that monks with earth clothes and bracers while having oil protection can be strong.

I agree with Fairy getting a resurrection buff, its not good enough as it is right now.

I think summoners in general need a MA buff or their summons to hit a little harder while keeping the MA the way it is. Time mages should get at least a speed buff so again they become fast and reliable mages

@Gaignun: I think the intended function was to break then damage if break hits first. Weapon Break has it right but not the other breaks.

Shieldrender was the go to weapon for shield break/double shot but no one uses it anymore since its WP gone down. Its nerf turned out to be too harsh of a treatment for the poor sword. It made an impression a couple of years ago
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 02:11:00 PM by Barren »
• Modding version: Other/Unknown
• You dare cross blades with me?
Gaignun [Posts: 532]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1723 on: July 01, 2015, 04:48:17 PM »
I was thinking for the choice band should have HP Increased to 80 and gain innocent, faith, don't move, silence, poison, oil, and petrify protection. Maybe have initial haste removed so that way it can be a bit balanced.

Weren't headbands that way in 1.38?  If I recall correctly, both Chakra and Choice gave status immunity, but players ended up choosing one over the other to block the ailments that were most common in the metagame.

We could also follow Shintroy's proposal and make one headband grant stats.  His proposal is as follows:

Quote from: Shintroy
Super Ribbon - SP+1, PA+1, MA+1 +0-50 HP (See FFV/FFXI)

Although I am hesitant about the +1 PA.  If the headband gives +1 PA, then monks can reach 18 PA without an accessory.  18 PA monks with Martial Arts hit like a truck.

I think summoners in general need a MA buff or their summons to hit a little harder while keeping the MA the way it is. Time mages should get at least a speed buff so again they become fast and reliable mages

I am fine with these changes. Giving summoners +1 MA would make them Wizards with -10 HP and +31 MP. If this difference is too great, we can adjust it by dropping summoners' HP or increasing wizards' MP.

As for Time Mages, giving them +1 SP will enable them to cast Haste on 8 SP units before those units get their first turn.  I would recommend dropping their HP or MP by 10 or so to compensate, though, or else they will far outclass the other mages at equal SP and MA.

@Gaignun: I think the intended function was to break then damage if break hits first. Weapon Break has it right but not the other breaks.

Ah, is that so?  Shield Break deals damage on the second hit, too.  That must mean that only Armor and Head Break are bugged.
silentkaster [Posts: 543]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1724 on: July 01, 2015, 06:58:01 PM »

Although I am hesitant about the +1 PA.  If the headband gives +1 PA, then monks can reach 18 PA without an accessory.  18 PA monks with Martial Arts hit like a truck.

I am fine with these changes. Giving summoners +1 MA would make them Wizards with -10 HP and +31 MP. If this difference is too great, we can adjust it by dropping summoners' HP or increasing wizards' MP.

As for Time Mages, giving them +1 SP will enable them to cast Haste on 8 SP units before those units get their first turn.  I would recommend dropping their HP or MP by 10 or so to compensate, though, or else they will far outclass the other mages at equal SP and MA.

Yes, but a 18 PA monk (without an accessory) would now only be able to have an HP of 265. This would make them very squishy and likely to be targeted first. So, I'd be okay with that (if The HP given for wearing this is 0. If it is 50 or close to it, I would say drop the +1 speed at least.)

I've always thought at the very least the summoner needs to have at least as much HP as the lowest Mage class (like TM or Scholar). I don't know that boosting their MA is an idea that I agree with, since their skill set uses smart targeting, but they need an HP bump at the very least.

With the TM, the speed is really the only thing they currently have going for them. Their HP is low, their MA is not great (compared to other mages) and even the speed could become an issue on some of their skills (many TM skills are most advantageous going after the enemy or ally moves, not before.) so I think it is okay to boost them a bit.

You've stepped in puddles less shallow than me.
Gaignun [Posts: 532]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1725 on: July 01, 2015, 07:07:35 PM »
Yes, but a 18 PA monk (without an accessory) would now only be able to have an HP of 265. This would make them very squishy and likely to be targeted first. So, I'd be okay with that (if The HP given for wearing this is 0. If it is 50 or close to it, I would say drop the +1 speed at least.)

I suppose if it grants no HP, then the PA is OK.  If it grants 50 HP, though, I would rather drop the PA than the SP.
Lol Whut?
dw6561 [Posts: 254]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1726 on: July 01, 2015, 09:42:57 PM »
I would agree that time mage is very lacking in stats, but I don't know about giving them +1 speed. There are no other mage classes with 9 speed at the moment. There would be a huge gap in speed, especially if we don't drop the speed boost on healing staff. I also feel like it's too easy to get 12 speed there without any significant drawbacks.

• Modding version: PSX
• This is FF Tactics. All the Tactics you can ever have, all in one byte.
reinoe [Posts: 450]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1727 on: July 02, 2015, 12:14:58 AM »
It's always a joy to hear gaignun's theories!  Also welcome back.  I'd be in favor of Time Mage getting bumped up to 10 speed of the Time Mage Skills hadn't also gotten a buff.  I think at this point we will just have to either give Time Mage worse stats and give them 10 speed or keep them at 9 speed but improve the time mage stats directly.  Don't forget when you improve skills you're also indirectly improving the skills when other classes choose Time Magic as a secondary skill.  If we we improve the TM stats I'd like to increase HP by approximately 20 and increase MP by 10.

RE: Summoner I wouldn't mind seeing them get a huge buff to MP; a 40 mp boost doesn't sound all that crazy to me especially considering how expensive summon magic is.  This has the added benefit of Summoners not really needing to invest in boosting their MP with clothes if they don't want too.

My dreams can come true!
Gaignun [Posts: 532]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1728 on: July 02, 2015, 08:00:30 AM »
I'm honoured that you remember me, reinoe.  It's nice to see that you are still around.

RE: Summoner I wouldn't mind seeing them get a huge buff to MP; a 40 mp boost doesn't sound all that crazy to me especially considering how expensive summon magic is.  This has the added benefit of Summoners not really needing to invest in boosting their MP with clothes if they don't want too.

This is another option, indeed.  At their current MP of 118, I think they can already manage to cast low-tier summons with full HP gear. 1.39's Black Hood buff is just too good; even when you aim for high HP, you get a decent MP boost on the side.  An MP boost to summoners would mostly be felt with the high-tier summons.
"..." - Gogo
Shintroy [Posts: 475]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1729 on: July 02, 2015, 09:37:34 AM »
What if Arena got the MP Switch from Jot5? It works like Vanilla MP switch, but converts excess MP damage into HP instead of only dealing MP damage. This makes balanced since you can't abuse the reaction with Move-MP Up. With this we might see more versatile casters being made using underused/unused melee weapons like Ultima Weapon, Poles, Books, and other MA based/proccing weapons. I'd give it

 With or Without MP Switch, Summoner definitly needs a buff in stats. Maybe 10 Class Evasion and +20 MP.Carbuncle needs to have an MP requirement to be balanced. With so many ways to replenish MP I hardly see a reason to have Carbunkle at zero MP cost.Fairy's fine as is. 33% HP recovery and has an AoE of 1? Pretty good if you ask me. Besides, changing an ability just because it's not effective against a certain strategy isn't balancing. We'd have to buff every revival ability including Raise 2, because there's many unit that can KO units at 100% HP. There aren't enough people using the skillset to make any huge change. Lich just started getting used. Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh being unevadable, 3 CT, and MA*8 aren't used. What ever happened to Zodiac spamming mime teams?

Some changes

Genji Shield - Remove Dead/DS immunity for Immune Darkness.
I like the idea of having a shield for casters and one for melee units.

Mage Masher - 33% Bizen Boat up from 25%.
I believe it was at 33% in 138 too. Didn't really see the need to nerf.

Light Robe, P Bag - Immune Poison.
With this there's no reason to have multiple poison immune accessories.

Some day my people will be free.
METEORologist-in-training
Reks [Posts: 684]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1730 on: July 02, 2015, 11:46:50 AM »
What if Arena got the MP Switch from Jot5? It works like Vanilla MP switch, but converts excess MP damage into HP instead of only dealing MP damage. This makes balanced since you can't abuse the reaction with Move-MP Up. With this we might see more versatile casters being made using underused/unused melee weapons like Ultima Weapon, Poles, Books, and other MA based/proccing weapons. I'd give it

 With or Without MP Switch, Summoner definitly needs a buff in stats. Maybe 10 Class Evasion and +20 MP.Carbuncle needs to have an MP requirement to be balanced. With so many ways to replenish MP I hardly see a reason to have Carbunkle at zero MP cost.Fairy's fine as is. 33% HP recovery and has an AoE of 1? Pretty good if you ask me. Besides, changing an ability just because it's not effective against a certain strategy isn't balancing. We'd have to buff every revival ability including Raise 2, because there's many unit that can KO units at 100% HP. There aren't enough people using the skillset to make any huge change. Lich just started getting used. Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh being unevadable, 3 CT, and MA*8 aren't used. What ever happened to Zodiac spamming mime teams?

Some changes

Genji Shield - Remove Dead/DS immunity for Immune Darkness.
I like the idea of having a shield for casters and one for melee units.

Mage Masher - 33% Bizen Boat up from 25%.
I believe it was at 33% in 138 too. Didn't really see the need to nerf.

Light Robe, P Bag - Immune Poison.
With this there's no reason to have multiple poison immune accessories.

"Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh being unevadable, 3 CT, and MA*8 aren't used"

My tournament team's Wizard has them specifically because they're unevadable.

And I wouldn't rule out the other offered options.

 Though Summoner gaining Class Evasion is kinda pointless because casting. Even if Gaignun's evasion-allowing reaction becomes a thing, that's nowhere near enough to make me want to use a Summoner.As for Fairy and Carbunkle? Well, while yes there are ways to restore MP easily (say, Move-MP UP)... (and do try counting on your hands the number of times you've seen Fairy revive more than one unit and not have one of said units immediately dropped. If buffing it to Raise levels is still a no in your book, have it resurrect at a guaranteed HP total: say, 150.)Move MP UP is very expensive. I don't always want to use it because of this. The thing about MP Restoration is that while it's a huge priority to cover with any mage, it also shouldn't be forced that you HAVE to use the best, or the same skills over and over just to keep the unit effective.And I do want to point out somewhat sarcastically that while the thread and such is called the "Balance Discussion Thread", it's also the place to discuss changes to the patch to keep things fresh and allow for more creative ways to make teams, not sit on the metagame that exists.Dunno about you guys, but I find the current one (speed and status) kinda boring.
Barren [Posts: 2582]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1731 on: July 02, 2015, 12:02:12 PM »
Summoners having more innate MP is actually not a bad idea as well because they have abysmal HP so giving them the options of high HP clothes or even equip armor for status protection is encouraged more so.

Time Mages losing HP and MP might be a bit much because then unless you giving them some means of defense up/auto protect then they can get one shotted more easily. Then again that would compensate for the 10 speed time mages. The reason I would suggest then the 10 speed because if you're going for spells that short charge would be too much to get JP wise then Defense Up + Move-MP up can help them out better.

Short Charge if anything should move back to the Time Mage support ability. Summoners have Short Charge and Half of MP. I think moving at least one of them to the Time Mage support ability slot would make it more fair between the two.

Plus a lot fo people like to use white + time magic with short charge and shouldn't have to feel to restricted to have an extra time magic spell because of the extra 250 JP they spend unlocking the summoner class.

On another subject, I think lances should get reworked because the breathe procs while can chip away I don't see them being useful at all (unless on a equip polearm samurai which we haven't really seen yet). They should at least get elemental weapon properties like the long bows have or give them innate effects like initial protect or something. Makes lancers a little more tankier

• Modding version: Other/Unknown
• You dare cross blades with me?
Gaignun [Posts: 532]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1732 on: July 02, 2015, 05:19:25 PM »
Carbuncle needs to have an MP requirement to be balanced. With so many ways to replenish MP I hardly see a reason to have Carbunkle at zero MP cost.

I understand that there are other ways to replenish MP, but all the 5 MP cost accomplishes on paper is having a naked summoner replenish 61 MP instead of 66.  There is a second, much bigger cost, and that involves the AI not knowing how to proactively replenish MP before dropping below 5 MP.  We players would never make the mistake of depleting our summoner's MP below Carbunkle's MP cost, but the AI does so time and time again.

"Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh being unevadable, 3 CT, and MA*8 aren't used"

My tournament team's Wizard has them specifically because they're unevadable.

Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh are really good, huh?  I think they are being slept on, myself.  They and Flare are currently the only faith-based spells that ignore M-EV, so they're great counters to high faith, high M-EV teams.  The other summons acted as counters, too, before they became affected by M-EV.  In fact, precisely because of these three summons, I think that giving summoners +1 MA would be overcompensating.

I encourage people to try out 12 MA summoners with Magic Attack UP and elemental strengthening.  These units deal 126~176 AoE damage at 100% accuracy.  It's like an AoE Romanda Gun.

@Barren: I agree with Time Mages needing a support ability.  Summoners should share one of theirs.  My vote is for Half of MP.  This will make it easier for low-MP classes like Thieves to use Time Magick sustainably.  Summoners themselves have little use for this support ability with their giant MP pools.

Also, I recall reading elsewhere that FFMaster was considering redesigning Lances.  I'm not sure where that discussion ended up.
METEORologist-in-training
Reks [Posts: 684]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1733 on: July 02, 2015, 07:23:36 PM »
I understand that there are other ways to replenish MP, but all the 5 MP cost accomplishes on paper is having a naked summoner replenish 61 MP instead of 66.  There is a second, much bigger cost, and that involves the AI not knowing how to proactively replenish MP before dropping below 5 MP.  We players would never make the mistake of depleting our summoner's MP below Carbunkle's MP cost, but the AI does so time and time again.

Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh are really good, huh?  I think they are being slept on, myself.  They and Flare are currently the only faith-based spells that ignore M-EV, so they're great counters to high faith, high M-EV teams.  The other summons acted as counters, too, before they became affected by M-EV.  In fact, precisely because of these three summons, I think that giving summoners +1 MA would be overcompensating.

I encourage people to try out 12 MA summoners with Magic Attack UP and elemental strengthening.  These units deal 126~176 AoE damage at 100% accuracy.  It's like an AoE Romanda Gun.

@Barren: I agree with Time Mages needing a support ability.  Summoners should share one of theirs.  My vote is for Half of MP.  This will make it easier for low-MP classes like Thieves to use Time Magick sustainably.  Summoners themselves have little use for this support ability with their giant MP pools.

Also, I recall reading elsewhere that FFMaster was considering redesigning Lances.  I'm not sure where that discussion ended up.

I wouldn't argue that they're "really" good.

My Wizard has 14 MA and a Black Robe, and she does within that same damage range that you're referring to.

I did have a choice between the higher damage summons, or the low damage-but-unevadable ones that could easily be boosted slightly by a Black Robe.

At the moment, I think that giving the Summoner's a boost to MP and, say, 1 MA (or access to something like Books)

Would make them more desirable without making them TOO much stronger.

After all, it IS easy to create a nuke regardless of the single-stat difference
Gaignun [Posts: 532]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1734 on: July 03, 2015, 07:25:00 PM »
Some blue-sky brainstorming here.

Summoner
Stats
M: 103 HP, 141 MP※, 8 SP, 3 PA, 9 MA, 3 Move, 3 Jump, 5 C-EV
F: 096 HP, 148 MP※, 8 SP, 2 PA, 11 MA, 3 Move, 3 Jump, 5 C-EV

※ Actual MP values will vary depending on MPM.

Summon Magic
Moogle: 4 Range, 3 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT, 12 MP, Heal_F(MA*9), 50 JP
Shiva: Unchanged
Ramuh: Unchanged
Ifrit: Unchanged
Leviathan: 4 Range, 3 AoE, 3 Vert, 4 CT, 25 MP, Water element, Dmg_F(MA*8), 150 JP, Ignores M-EV, 20% Cancel: All positive statii removed
Salamander: 4 Range, 3 AoE, 3 Vert, 4 CT, 25 MP, Fire element, Dmg_F(MA*8), 150 JP, Ignores M-EV, 50% Add: Oil removed
Titan: 4 Range, 2 AoE, 3 Vert, 5 CT, 35 MP, Earth element, Dmg_F(MA*10), 200 JP, Ignores M-EV
Fairy: 4 Range, 1 AoE, 2 Vert, 4 CT, 25 MP, Heal_(50%) Hit_F(MA+75)%, Cancel: Dead, 200 JP
Carbunkle: 4 Range, 3 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT, 0 MP, HealMP_(60%), 250 JP
Silf: Unchanged
Odin: 4 Range, 2 AoE, 2 Vert, 6 CT, 45 MP, Dark element, Dmg_F(MA*9), 20% Add: Dead, Ignores M-EV, 200 JP
Bahamut: 4 Range, 2 AoE, 3 Vert, 7 CT, 45 MP, Dmg_F(MA*12), Ignores M-EV, Remove smart targeting to impede mime teams? Bahamut is a dragon breathing fire all the way from space; he can't be bothered to distinguish friend from foe, 300 JP
Lich: Unchanged
Cyclops: 4 Range, 2 AoE, 3 Vert, 5 CT, 30 MP, Holy element, Dmg_F(MA*9), Ignores M-EV, 20% Add: Blind removed, 200 JP
Zodiac: 4 Range, 3 AoE, 99 Vert, 6 CT, 45 MP, Dmg_F(MA*9), Ignores M-EV, 300 JP
MP Restore: Unchanged
Half of MP: Moved to Time Magic
Short Charge: Unchanged

Arguments:
• Summon magic now thoroughly fulfills the unique role of evasion-piercing faith-based damage magic.  Look out Leather Mantles and Aegis Shields!
• Most status ailments are removed to avoid redundancy with Black Magic. (Odin's death proc is left as a homage. Silf's DA/DM proc is up for debate.)
• In compensation, summons now cost 20%~30% more MP, making summon magic the most MP-intensive skillset in the game.  Summoners are given a bonus 30 MP, allowing them to continue using their skillset without MP gear.  In place of MP gear, summoners can equip HP and MA gear to compensate for their lousy base stats. Or they can go full retard and equip MP gear for funzies.
• Conversely, other mages with superior base stats will need MP gear for sustainable use of summon magic.  Hopefully this will balance out the skillset's use as a secondary skillset.
• The change to Carbunkle encourages teams to have high MP pools. This will make summoners more attractive as a primary class. The change also keeps other forms of MP healing relevant on teams with low MP pools.
• The only elemental summon with damage as high as Dmg_F(MA*10) is Titan because it is the only spell that can be blocked by a movement ability.  Cyclops' damage was dropped to Dmg_F(MA*9), but was made easier to use.
• Community testing will be necessary to settle on balanced damage formulae.

At the moment, I think that giving the Summoner's a boost to MP and, say, 1 MA (or access to something like Books)

« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 08:44:12 PM by Gaignun »
Barren [Posts: 2582]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1735 on: July 03, 2015, 11:22:43 PM »
I like alot of the ideas here. But What about time magic? Haste/Slow 1 are garbage compared to haste/slow 2 because of accuracy issues. you really need to do an all mage team with best compat and high faith to even attempt to do it. And that can be impossible sometimes. I'd say swap the accuracy around between haste/slow 1 & 2 s that way while haste/slow 2 can still keep its CT and AoE its accuracy would be reduced a little bit as a trade off. That's what I think anyways.

• Modding version: Other/Unknown
• You dare cross blades with me?
☯☯☯☯
FFMaster [Posts: 2499]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1736 on: July 04, 2015, 04:23:30 AM »
OK, I'm back with a nice long break. I haven't been able to keep up with the balance changes at all for the year, and have only skimmed the past few pages, but it looks like I might finally have to make a decision on where to take Scholar. Here are a few random thoughts:

- Wizard has no more space for spells, so cannot be given the Bio spells unless we lose something like say... Water or things like Frog/Death/Flare/Poison.

- Priest has always had problems with Protect/Shell. I've tried multiple things before. The current easiest way is to use the Raise formula, which will heal a % amount and add status. Rewriting the Cure spells to accept status may be possible, depending on how friendly the game is.

- I'm sure most people saw Time Mages bonus speed as more of a liability than a help, since 9 base speed means you will be more likely to act first, rather than last, like you want a mage to. I have no ideas on how to keep the class unique while fitting the theme of a time mage. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

- I like the change to Jump. Along with that, there were some Spear changes in the background, as everyone knows.
Gungnir - Spear that ignores evasion
Ethereal Spear - Spear that deals only MP damage

- I really dislike Daggers adding speed. This stat was a major problem in early versions of Arena, among other things. The weapon just became used because it added 1 speed, and other skills were cast instead, making all daggers look the same except the ones with other benefits (evasion, PA, MA)

- The new reaction to give P-EV/M-EV to casting/performing characters sounds good. I can definitely make it, or attach it to another reacion (most likely Awareness) as well.

- As far as Defend support goes, for 139 I spent about a week trying to make it not use up an action. Needless to say, I failed miserably. Which is why it's there, pretty much acting as a noob trap.

- I can definitely add new weapons and stuff, like a staff made solely for Time Mages, or whatever archetype is needed.

☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢
METEORologist-in-training
Reks [Posts: 684]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1737 on: July 04, 2015, 07:19:41 AM »
OK, I'm back with a nice long break. I haven't been able to keep up with the balance changes at all for the year, and have only skimmed the past few pages, but it looks like I might finally have to make a decision on where to take Scholar. Here are a few random thoughts:

- Wizard has no more space for spells, so cannot be given the Bio spells unless we lose something like say... Water or things like Frog/Death/Flare/Poison.

- Priest has always had problems with Protect/Shell. I've tried multiple things before. The current easiest way is to use the Raise formula, which will heal a % amount and add status. Rewriting the Cure spells to accept status may be possible, depending on how friendly the game is.

- I'm sure most people saw Time Mages bonus speed as more of a liability than a help, since 9 base speed means you will be more likely to act first, rather than last, like you want a mage to. I have no ideas on how to keep the class unique while fitting the theme of a time mage. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

- I like the change to Jump. Along with that, there were some Spear changes in the background, as everyone knows.
Gungnir - Spear that ignores evasion
Ethereal Spear - Spear that deals only MP damage

- I really dislike Daggers adding speed. This stat was a major problem in early versions of Arena, among other things. The weapon just became used because it added 1 speed, and other skills were cast instead, making all daggers look the same except the ones with other benefits (evasion, PA, MA)

- The new reaction to give P-EV/M-EV to casting/performing characters sounds good. I can definitely make it, or attach it to another reacion (most likely Awareness) as well.

- As far as Defend support goes, for 139 I spent about a week trying to make it not use up an action. Needless to say, I failed miserably. Which is why it's there, pretty much acting as a noob trap.

- I can definitely add new weapons and stuff, like a staff made solely for Time Mages, or whatever archetype is needed.

Would be good for a whole overview of the proposed changes made in one post. I guess I can try at it after finishing up the last bit of hiring at my new job later today, but it'll be the 4th of July and I work early early tomorrow, so I'll have to see.
Zotis [Posts: 231]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1738 on: July 04, 2015, 07:41:27 AM »
If you're going to drop anything from Wizard for Bio, maybe Poison?  It seems like a spell that no one ever uses.  Please don't consider dropping Flare/Frog/Death though, I love them on Wizards.  Maybe consider dropping Water.
Barren [Posts: 2582]
##### Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« Reply #1739 on: July 04, 2015, 10:24:38 AM »
Or move the water spells to the scholar class if you're looking to make room.

@FFMaster: We were discussing the Time Mage class and we we're thinking that maybe give time mages 10 speed while losing 10 HP/MP to compensate. You can make Time Mages with Half of MP without the need of short charge if you're at a base 10 speed and you can give them full hp/mp clothes without having to resort to giving them low HP gear for the sake of speed
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 10:53:29 AM by Barren »
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