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Avalanche [Posts: 161] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 09:49:41 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #440 on: May 10, 2012, 09:49:41 PM »
whats so bad about confuse?
Barren [Posts: 1753] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 10:32:24 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #441 on: May 10, 2012, 10:32:24 PM »
Well we really don't use confuse anymore considering that beguile now inflicts charm

Keep calm and stay classy, kupo!
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2958] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 11:28:09 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #442 on: May 10, 2012, 11:28:09 PM »
whats so bad about confuse?

It can lead to the AI refusing to kill the Confused units and having a battle that never ends.

See: the infamous "Loss" strategy used against Adramelk and other Confuse-using bosses in many FFT challenge runs.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1317] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 12:26:43 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #443 on: May 11, 2012, 12:26:43 AM »
Collected Changes (updated with the problems Barren pointed out):

Equips:
Throwing Knife (Gain +33% Death Sentence)
Dual Cutters (Gain +1 WP)
Blind Knife => Pain Knife (9 WP, 2S, no2H, +1 Move, 15% W-EV, +5% Crystal)
Mage Masher (Change proc to 50% Bizen Boat)
Assassin Dagger => Katar (12 WP, no2S, no2H, +1 Move, 15% W-EV, +1 PA)
Spell Edge (Change +1 MA to 50% Spell Absorb)
All Knight Swords (+1 WP)
Koutetsu (Add: +1 PA)
Heaven's Cloud (Change +1 PA to Proc: 50% Slow)
Healing Staff (+1 WP)
Rainbow Staff (-1 WP, Remove: All Elements)
Bow Gun (Change proc to 50% Armorbreak)
Blaze Gun (12-13 WP, Change proc to 100% Fire3)
Glacier Gun (11-12 WP, Change proc to 100% Ice3)
Blast Gun (10-11 WP, Change proc to 100% Bolt3)
Cross Bow => Silencer (10 WP, +50% Silence, 4 Range, 0% W-EV)
Poison Bow (+2 WP)
Longbow (+2 Range)
Silver Bow (Proc: 19% Holy)
Ice Bow (Change all effects to Proc: 25% Stop)
Lightning Bow (Change all effects to Proc: 25% Don't Act)
Windslash Bow (Proc: 19% Hurricane)
Ultimus Bow (+1 PA)
Monster Dictionary (Change proc to Magic Ruin)
Mythril Shield (Change to 15 / 15)
Gold Shield (Change to 25 / 5)
Ice Shield (Change to 20 / 10)
Flame Shield (Change to 20 / 10)
Diamond Shield (Change to 15 / 15)
Platina Shield (Change to 15 / 15)
Crystal Shield (Change to 20 / 20, halve/weak: all elements)
Genji Shield (Change to 10 / 5)
Venetian Plate => Glitter Shield (+1 SPD, 5 / 5)
Gold Helmet (Change Null: Chicken to Null: Don't Move)
Genji Helmet (Chance Null: Don't Move to Initial: Berserk)
N-Kai Armlet (Change Null: Confuse to Undead)
Jade Armlet (Change Null: Chicken to Ice)
Reflect Ring (Change Null: Silence to Berserk)
Defense Armlet (+Absorb: Fire)
Defense Ring (+8/8)
Small Mantle (10 / 20, Null: Holy/EArth)
Wizard Mantle (15 / 25, Null: Don't Act)
Leather Mantle (20 / 30)
Elf Mantle (25 / 25)
Feather Mantle (30 / 20)
Dracula Mantle (25 / 15, Null: Berserk)
Vanish Mantle (20 / 10, Null: Wind/Water)


Jobs:

Squire
Remove: Cheer Up
Change: Bullrush (Change to Null: Haste)
Add: Alacrity (10 MP, +1 MA, Self, 200 JP)
Add: Wild Blow (Weapon Elemental/Range, RN{XA / 2...XA * 3 / 2} * WP, unevadable, 5 MP, 100 JP)
Add: Concentrate (400 JP)

Paladin
Remove: Dia
Remove: Iron Will
Remove: Magic Ward
Change: Nurse (Add: Defend/Regen)
Change: Transfusion (Remove MP Cost)
Add: Prepare (Add: Protect/Shell, 6 MP, Self, 200 JP)
Add: Reraise (Add: Reraise, 3 Range, 3 Vert, 16 MP, 200 JP)
Add: Wretched Blade (Weapon Element, PA * WP, 6 MP, +Poison, 1 AoE, Vert 1, NoSelf, 250 JP)

Archer
Remove: Greased Bolt
Change: Hawkseye (+Proc: Poison/Oil)
Change: Execute (Change damage to 40% of maxHP)
Change: Cover Fire (Change damage to (PA * 2 + 60) * RNG{1..3})

Monk
Change: Secret Fist (Change Y to 65)
Add: Warpath (+3 Fury at end of the turn if moved, 300 JP)

Priest
Remove: Reraise
Add: Dia (See old Paladin)
Add: Holy March (+3 Faith at end of the turn if moved, 300 JP)

Wizard
(+15 MAM)
Remove: Fire1
Remove: Ice1
Remove: Bolt1
Add: Fire 2 Back (Same as old Fire2 except replace (Fa + 35)% with (145 - Fury)%)
Add: Ice 2 Back (Same as old Ice2 except replace (Fa + 35)% with (145 - Fury)%)
Add: Bolt 2 Back (Same as old Bolt2 except replace (Fa + 35)% with (145 - Fury)%)
Change: Fire 2 (+19% Oil)
Change: Ice 2 (+19% Slow)
Change: Bolt 2 (+19% Don't Move)
Change: Poison (AoE +1, Vert +1)

Time Mage
Change: Don't Move (AoE +1, Vert +2)

Summoner
Change: All spells CT > 4 take M-EV.
Change: Odin (Dmg_F * MA * 9, Darkness elemental, 30% +Dead, 35 MP, 6 CT)
Change: Lich (Change Y = 65)

Thief
Change: Spellbreaker (+5 MP, MA * WP, 50% RemoveAll: Re-Raise, Haste, Regen, Protect, Shell)

Geomancer
(+20 MPM, +10 PAM, +10 MAM)
Change Hell Ivy to +Stop
Change Carve Model to +Don't Move
Change Local Quake to +Petrify
Change Quicksand to +Zombie
Change Pitfall to +Slow
Change Gusty Wind to +Sleep
Change Kamaitachi to +Don't Act
Change Demon Fire to +Oil
Change Blizzard to +Silence/Blind
Change Sandstorm to +Berserk

Samurai
Change: Koutetsu (+1 Range, -1 AoE, NoSelf)
Change: Masamune (+1 Range Linear, Self)

Ninja
Remove: Doku no Kyoukai
Change: -ton (Now subject to M-EV)
Change: Tsumazuku (+5 MP, SP * WP, -25 CT, No other effects)
Change: Kagesougi (Change 100% blind to Random Add: Blind, Silence, Poison, Don't Move, Don't Act)

Bard
Change: Life Song (+25% Regen)
Change: Nameless Song (Change hit rate 40%, CT = 4, RandomAdd: Reraise, Protect, Shell)

Dancer
Change: Wiznaibus (+25% Poison)
Change: Nameless Dance (Change to RandomAdd: Darkness, Silence, Slow, Oil)


Status:

Oil:
Dispel by all elements except holy/dark.
Weak to all elements except holy/dark.

Dead:
Cancel: Oil, Frog
De-Cancel: Regen, Poison

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
Fantactic1316 [Posts: 75] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 12:32:51 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #444 on: May 11, 2012, 12:32:51 AM »
Suggestion: Magic Guns +1 MA

Also, as I'm here, not a fan of them becoming only Tier 3 spells. And if they do, they should definitely become subject to M-Ev and Reflect.

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-The Doctor-
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1317] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 12:41:53 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #445 on: May 11, 2012, 12:41:53 AM »
Suggestion: Magic Guns +1 MA

Also, as I'm here, not a fan of them becoming only Tier 3 spells. And if they do, they should definitely become subject to M-Ev and Reflect.

The formula for spell guns is WP * Y * Faith.  This means that +1 MA will do nothing to boost the power of those guns.  Furthermore, if WP comes down to accommodate for using the higher Y values of the Tier 3 spells, the overall spell damage will not change.  The only change is that you won't have Kagesougi or Grand Cross being so broken.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
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  • [May 11, 2012, 03:20:54 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #446 on: May 11, 2012, 03:20:54 AM »
Oh, Magic Guns don't use MA...well, that sorts me out on that one.

Although it makes me like the lower WP idea even less. It might fix Grand Cross, but the Magic Guns would start to look kind of puny to anyone who uses them as an actual weapon. 100% Tier 3 does a bit for that, I suppose.

How about if all three magic guns became 13 WP (which is what the Ice Brand has, and it's kind of the obvious choice for Grand Cross on a Paladin) and the Y values are raised to make up the difference for anyone who uses the melee ability of the guns? (+1 to Blast, +2 to Glacier, +4 to Blaze) Not sure how difficult it might be to change the Y's, and especially to assign 3 different Y's where they used to all be the same, but it sounds good in theory, right? Alternatively the guns could be made to all deal the same damage if different Y values cause trouble. Just raise all of the Y's by 2 to meet in the middle. (Blast gets slightly stronger, Blaze gets slightly weaker, Glacier stays the same.)

In either of those cases, Grand Cross becomes equivalent to the best a Paladin can make of it (assuming they want to absorb it, and...why wouldn't they?) while the guns retain their effectiveness as a melee weapon without having to make any changes to the random spells.

Third alternative, give the guns the regular spell formulas...but then they might be too strong??

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-The Doctor-
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CT5Holy [Posts: 921] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 03:27:04 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #447 on: May 11, 2012, 03:27:04 AM »
Guns use the regular spell formulas, with WP as MA. Their regular attack damage is fine.

I'm pretty sure we can't do it your way, and reducing the WP means we aren't making any changes to "random spells." Also, they need their WP lowered because they simply do too much damage with Kagesougi/Grand Cross.

Winner of the 1st FFT 1.3 AI Tourney
Shintroy [Posts: 62] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 04:31:22 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #448 on: May 11, 2012, 04:31:22 AM »
So how about that weapon that only deals MP damage
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  • [May 11, 2012, 05:10:58 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #449 on: May 11, 2012, 05:10:58 AM »
Guns use the regular spell formulas, with WP as MA.

I meant using MA as MA, and the Y values from the Black Magic skillset. You would literally use, for example, Fire 1 with the Blaze Gun (60% of the time) with the formula [Dmg_F(MA*6)] as opposed to the current (according to the Master Guide) [CFa/100 * TFa/100 * Q * WP]; Q = 16 : 60% of the time...

The damage output is similar, but those two look like different formulas to me. Am I missing something?

Their regular attack damage is fine.

Their attack damge is fine...as it is now. If the WP is lowered, so is the damage. Raising the Y values in the current magic gun formula could offset that, while still not giving any additional power to Grand Cross/Kagesougi. If WP drops, but Y goes up by the same amount, then the melee attacks would remain close to their current damage.

And putting them on the actual spell formulas would take WP out of the equation altogether. If that were the case, I'd suggest +1 MA so that units like Archers could still use magic guns effectively if they so desired.

I'm pretty sure we can't do it your way,

Fair enough if you can't. Though I still think it takes the fun out of magic guns.

and reducing the WP means we aren't making any changes to "random spells."

I was just going off of what FDC said.

Blaze Gun (12-13 WP, Change proc to 100% Fire3)
Glacier Gun (11-12 WP, Change proc to 100% Ice3)
Blast Gun (10-11 WP, Change proc to 100% Bolt3)

And changing topics:

So how about that weapon that only deals MP damage

I think Bizen Boat and/or Mage Masher would fit that bill quite nicely (in conjunction with the removal of their Silence procs).

"D'you know in 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasn't important before."
-The Doctor-
dacheat [Posts: 98] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 05:24:42 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #450 on: May 11, 2012, 05:24:42 AM »
I don't know how well the AI would use a weapon that did solely MP damage. Proccing Bizen Boat or something similar is probably a better solution.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1317] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 01:09:45 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #451 on: May 11, 2012, 01:09:45 PM »
So how about that weapon that only deals MP damage

I've already told you this at least a half dozen times in Chat.  This is made obsolete by a weapon that procs 50% Bizen Boat/Spell Absorb/Magic Ruin and will be considered worthless by the AI (and rightly so) because it doesn't do HP damage.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
Avalanche [Posts: 161] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 01:54:10 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #452 on: May 11, 2012, 01:54:10 PM »

I've already told you this at least a half dozen times in Chat.  This is made obsolete by a weapon that procs 50% Bizen Boat/Spell Absorb/Magic Ruin and will be considered worthless by the AI (and rightly so) because it doesn't do HP damage.

I believe the Ai wouldnt use it ( a mp-dmg weapon) unless they can prevent a spell from going off. But this doesnt makes it useless. Because the fact that the ai cant inflict hp-dmg with weapon attack might be the strenght of such a weapon if you dont want the Ai to waste turns. For instance i had a chemist with talk skill who kept atacking the enemy for crappy dmg instead going for talk skills.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1317] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 02:19:45 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #453 on: May 11, 2012, 02:19:45 PM »
Maybe I'm more of the offensive player, but I believe that a well-designed team is one where all the favored AI options advance your strategy.  A good AI team is not only well-designed (by the above definition) but also carries multiple strategies on each unit without messing up the AI.  Thus, I'd rather a chemist using talk skill and his weapon because although he can't use both simultaneously (and thus will use talk skill less than the chemist you just described), the ability to freely use one or the other can counter more opponents than a chemist bound to only one role.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 02:27:39 PM by formerdeathcorps »
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
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The Damned [Posts: 2072] Logged
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  • [May 11, 2012, 11:04:25 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #454 on: May 11, 2012, 11:04:25 PM »
(Man, I'd be pretty livid that this didn't post before I left after all the time I spent on it. Good thing I properly backed-up. Not sure if that's the fault of the forum or Firefox or myself. Probably all three.)

I am returned from my real life failures to address more virtual ones.

From what little testing I remember doing, the AI didn't exactly use MP-only damaging weapons well. Of course, it's been a year or two if I even did test....

Still, I think "we" should avoid that, as much as I would actually like to see that tested. Unless Shintroy (or who ever else supports it) can come up with multiple compelling reasons as to why "we" need yet more things to screw mages over when a lot of magic is still kinda dubious, then I too don't really see a point.

whats so bad about confuse?

To elaborate more on what RavenofRazgriz said, it tends to make the AI ignore the Confused unit unless the AI can do 50% or more in one hit, and even that's kinda...iffy sometimes. Given that Confusion also has infinite duration (and traps in ARENA are removed, not that every map had damaging traps to begin with), this would pretty much mean stalemates in quite a few instances, especially for more tanky or less damage-oriented teams.

Collected Changes (updated with the problems Barren pointed out):

Would you mind terribly telling us what exactly these "problems" were? I ask this especially since, as I've noticed, you removed your original post some time during my almost-week-long hiatus given the conspicuous gap Gaignun's posts of April 28th and May 5th.

Regardless, I'll break down my thoughts on this list as I going to do when I initially saw it before/as I left; I stayed my hand given I had stuff to (finally) do (horribly). I'll be breaking it into "Stuff I More or Less Agree With", "Stuff I Could Hesitantly Agree With Even Without Changes", and "Stuff I Outright Reject At Present Unless It Changes". Such concise titles will be the heading of appropriate spoilers. I'll be separating equipment and job (and status) stuff as well.


EQUIPMENT COMMENTS GO HERE







****

JOB (AND STATUS) COMMENTS GO HERE








With all that finally said, given how long I've been typing and the fact that I need to do other things besides proofread this, I'll quickly (read: very tediously) ramble off about 10 or so changes relating to equipment and jobs (& status), each, that I didn't see. These will kinda be in order since they're coming off the top of my head, but they're hardly bound to that, especially since it's not like I (ever) know what I'm talking about with regards to ARENA (and everything else). Outside of the obvious when it comes to suggestions of formerdeathcorps I've rejected, unless I explicitly say that I'm contradicting him, please assume that my suggested changes are being considered in tandem with his:



EQUIPMENT COMMENTS GO HERE

1. Hidden Knife needs to lose Always: Transparent, turn into Ninja version of Defender - I don't care whether it gets Initial: Transparent and a bunch other of crap to ensure that the Ninja can hit like immunity to Blind or Don't Act, but it needs to lose Always: Transparent. At present, Ninja (and far less often, Thief) gets away with being the only class to essentially have access to (innate) Concentrate. This in addition to having access to innate Two Hands and thus free reign both of whatever other weapon they want to smack someone with at 100% and of yet another Support to choose from. It may not be outright broken in and of itself, but I feel like it's been egregious for a while and that no one has mentioned simply because there's been so much other unavoidable BS that happens from a longer distance, much it also coming from Ninja's ARENA skill set.

Anyway, beyond the dubious and obnoxious nature of Always: Transparent, with Hidden Knife also having +1 Speed it both ensures the Ninja gets more unmerited hits and that it completely obviates Sasuke Knife. Seriously, there is literally no reason to ever use Sasuke Knife at present. None. Nada. Zip. That too needs to change. So please just kill two annoying birds with one huge boulder and strip Hidden Knife of its current properties and let it share Defender's immunity to Don't Act, which people can hardly complain is a completely horrible trade-off, given that Item Attribute is miserly mistress.

2. Muramasa needs to not add Faith just because it hits - Faith is a rather powerful status to be adding to people, especially on a weapon that's already rather powerful with more than double-digit WP. Considering you're building around it if you're using it, the risk of it back-firing is fairly minimal, especially with all the damage backing it. As such, it seems like the Faith status should happen, at most, 50% of the time. 33% may be since 25% is perhaps too low, but definitely not 100%.

(Gokuu Rod probably similarly needs to change, if only for parity considering I don't anyone has ever used it given how horrible it still is and counter-intuitive to all the classes that equip it initially. That's probably for the best, though, given how horribly unfair towards most magical classes Innocent still is, but I digress.)

But, yeah, there currently needs to be reason to use Katana besides Muramasa, Bizen Boat (fine), Asura (my comment about formerdeathcorp's Kotetsu), Chirijiraden and, maybe, Masamune. Doing this will slightly help, though admittedly the "problem" otherwise lies with the other Katana and I'm not sure how to fix any of those.

3. Either (most) Guns need be Forced Two Hands or Archers need to lose Shields innately - Given my choice between the two, I lean towards the former given the latter kinda screws with crossbows as well, though given that I agree with most of formerdeathcorps's changes for Crossbows, that might not be such a bit deal since they go a long way towards making those more usable. Still, these options aren't mutually exclusive.

4. Platina Dagger needs to trigger Climhazzard slighty less - My view of this maybe somewhat skewed due to Hidden Knife, but honestly, it seems like Climhazzard would be more fair triggering only 33% of the time despite the weapon's power given that a) the proc is unavoidable, b) the other weapon used is usually more powerful since almost no one ever uses this without Two Swords and c) the Climhazzard's damage depends more on the user's teammates than the meager WP holding its normal damage back, Ninja's speed causing Ninja to charge ahead aside. Not really a huge change, though don't think it needs one.

5. Main Gauche can probably stand to lose 1 WP and 5% W-EV - Self-explanatory given that 40% W-EV seems pretty damn ridiculous and that there's really no reason to use any of the other Knives/Daggers that can't be used with Two Swords at present. Formerdeathcorps' (and others') proposed change to combine Assassin Dagger & Throwing Dagger takes care of those two and this would go a decent way towards making the other two or three none-Two-Swords Daggers more usable.

6. Diversify the "Head-bands" more please - Decrease Ribbon's HP to 60 and decrease Barrete's HP to 70 while letting it block Sleep given that a) Ribbon doesn't and b) Confusion & Chicken don't exist anymore. I really can't remember the last time I ever saw anyone use Barette or Cachusha even before they became Monk-exclusive. Perhaps let Cachusha keep its 80 HP, lose a bit of its 80 MP and gain immunity to Undead, Charm, Innocent & Faith (basically sharing Item Attribute with Crystal Armor) since it honestly needs to block something if the other two block so much; meanwhile Ribbon loses both its immunities to Undead and Charm to stop the aforementioned monopoly of serious status.

7. Bow Gun becomes Burning Bow or Debilitator, a Crossbow that adds Oil - I'm not sure if Oil should be added 50% of the time. However, it seems like it should be at least 33% of the time, especially given that its dispersed on what hit and that I'm not asking for Bow Gun's WP to be increased. Not sure what you're going to do with Short Edge, but no one's ever really used that (well), especially once Hidden Knife became busted.

8. Do...something with Salty Rage - Add Initial: Reraise or Block: Poison & Blind or a ridiculous around of P-EV or...something in addition to its Initial: Berserk. I honestly don't care. All I know is that at present there is still no reason to use this and there hardly was in the first place, at least without Concentrate. Alternately, you could just kill it and do something else with its spot, which would probably a lot more worthwhile. I'd probably another Absorbing accessory, but I need more time to think about this....

9. If Reflect Ring is to Block Berserk, then Defense Ring should Block Silence instead of Berserk - Given formerdeathcorps suggested two more Berserk-blocking accessory and that Defense Ring still sucks, this seems for the best. It gives mages another Silence-blocking accessory that doesn't outright obviate Magic Ring yet it is still usable, especially since it gives them P-EV and M-EV as well, which they normally have to outright eschew to block Silence. Please do this.

10. Let 108 Gems Block Oil instead of Blood Suck - Given that I'm kinda rattling these off the top of my head, that Blood Suck doesn't exist anymore and that no accessory currently blocks Oil...yeah. It's the least you can do considering pretty much no one has used it ever since ARENA started.


JOB COMMENTS GO HERE

1. Please make at least Raise 2 Holy Element - That way Cursed Ring, Consecration and Seal Evil can actually be worth using. I would suggest doing the same with Raise as well and slightly lowering the success rate of both now that they can be boosted with things such as Healing Staff or the aforementioned 108 Gems (or Faith Rod or formerdeathcorps' proposed Holy March). As also mentioned earlier in this thread (for different reasons), yes, this kinda screws over the two pieces of Holy-blocking equipment, but those are honestly used so rarely as to not really matter.

2. Please make something else Water Element - It was a bit...jarring to come back after like three or so months and see that Water is still horribly underrepresented in terms of being able to use it as an attack as well to absorb it. While I'm yet trying to work out absorption of it, at the very least you could make strengthening of it worthwhile, especially when at least one of the Bios could easily become Water or Earth Dragon easily could become that "Big Wave" I was suggesting....

3. Give Poison to Oracle & Beguile to Wizard - You can potentially take formerdeathcorps' advice alongside this and also expand Poison's AoE. However, I would prefer they be mutually exclusive/competing ideas considering the amount of other changes going on/being suggested. Of course, given the amount of changes going on, perhaps it's best if Poison stays with Wizard for now just to see the new AoE works. If it doesn't (or "you" don't want to consider that change at all), then please consider this one. I honestly feel like they would better served in each other's jobs. Well, at least Poison would and it would kinda stupid for Poison and Beguile to be in the same set, so....

4. Make Bad Luck Persevering - This was suggested by formerdeathcorps a bit ago and I agreed with it, which is why I'm surprised he didn't bring it up in his list above, but whatever. Might want to up the CT to 5 if that's the case, though. Not sure.

5. Make Demi 2 less damaging in exchange for being more usable - Demi 2 should perhaps at most do 49% considering that I'm slightly merciful if people want to use Light Robes and P Bags and not suffer instant death (like Cursed Ring units against the much more frequent Raise 2 currently have to). Regardless, making it deal 50% or less in exchange for giving it CT of 4 or 5, MP of 32, and changing its X to at least 70% seems like it would get it much more use.

6. Combine Insult and Solution? - Something else that formerdeathcorps had brought up a bit ago and that I agreed with given the computer's lack of use of Innocent status as it is. However, that's perhaps not a bad thing given that there's only one item that blocks against Innocent at present and that's freaking armor, which is not something that Mages would be wearing in most instances. As such, I suggest a solution...to Solution. Change it into "Hush" and just have it add Silence. Give it Insult's current hit-rate while Insult gets Solution's current hit rate; I would readily accept Insult's X becoming 40 given Berserk's infinite duration and denial of Reactions and certain Movements, though in that case, I would ask that Blackmail (or Persuade) be made slightly more accurate in return.

(Preach can stay as is for now, if only because formerdeathcorps said he wanted to test something and I have no idea what the hell he's getting at. Same goes for Heretic.)

7. Slightly weaken Auto Potion - Although people tend to still be conflicted over what to do with Hi-Potion and X-Potion, I think that I've seen pretty much everyone agree that Auto Potion heals a bit too much. Can we just go back to it healing vanilla Hi-Potion levels of damage and thus only restoring 70 HP? Did "we" already try that? I honestly can't remember, but we should perhaps try again.

8. Slightly up Cyclops and Slyph's status procs - ...Cyclops is Holy now? Hunh. I...forgot? Or did I even know? That certainly makes me hold back on suggestion which might have spoiled somomething.... ...Regardless, it and Silf can probably stand to have their procs go up to about 33%, especially if you decide to use formerdeathcorps suggestion about Odin.

9. Slightly lower Bizen Boat and Murasame's X - They seem like regularly they deal a bit too much MP damage or heal a bit too much HP, especially since they do so instantly and, in the case of Bizen Boat (or Undead confronted with Murasame), aren't subject to M-EV. While I don't think Bizen Boat should become subject to M-EV, it could probably stand to become MA*8 rather easily; similarly, Murasame can probably stand to become MA*9. This is pretty low on the list, though.

10. Esuna and Stigma Magic should no longer cure Charm - As someone who likes status, it's really frustrating seeing a unit that is otherwise rightly suspectible to Charm often instantly break its own Charm status "accidentally" by using either of the aforementioned abilities on itself. That they are both multi-target, basically 100% accurate and, in the case of Stigma Magic, instant, just poor salt over those wounds. If you have to lessen Charm's duration slightly because of this, then I would understand. However, there's more than enough ways to block Charm already available without screwing it over further by making it trivialized by two really common techniques. If you feel like there should be an ability that gets rid of Charm (besides Refute) without damage, then I guess you could make it so Squire's Heal gets rid of it (though then I'd argue it shouldn't be self-targeting, which ultimately weakens it) or, better yet, just make a new ability to do. (Give it to, what, Paladin?)


Ugh. My hands. My use of hours. My relative lack of sleep. I'll try to make more formal suggestions when I'm slightly less useless than I am now.
Gaignun [Posts: 325] Logged
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  • [May 12, 2012, 04:08:53 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #455 on: May 12, 2012, 04:08:53 AM »
Quote from: The Damned
Please make at least Raise 2 Holy Element

Would this make Raise 2 fail to resurrect dead units that null Holy?   If so, holy-nulling equipment will be used much less frequently (which is a shame, as Small Mantle will get a lot better if it can help its wearer evade ninjutsu and summon magic).  How did 1.3 prevent Phoenix Downs from killing undead units?  Is there a passive modifier we can apply to reduce healing/resurrection damage here?

I like most of your suggestions, although I'm more inclined to remove Init: Berserk from all equipment and treat the status as a strictly negative, healable one.  Maybe that's too boring.
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2958] Logged
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  • [May 12, 2012, 04:13:42 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #456 on: May 12, 2012, 04:13:42 AM »
How about if all three magic guns became 13 WP (which is what the Ice Brand has, and it's kind of the obvious choice for Grand Cross on a Paladin) and the Y values are raised to make up the difference for anyone who uses the melee ability of the guns?

I think there's something else you're not realizing here - the reason their WP is offset as it is now and proposed to be 13/12/11 is because they don't cast the Level 3 Spell's Q value as set in the Battle Mechanics Guide by Aerostar (if you look there), but they cast the physical Level 3 spells from the Wizard's skillset.  In this case, they cast the Arena-versions of Fire, Ice, Bolt, meaning the Spell's Y values being changed aren't options.  You'd be upsetting the balance of the entire Wizard skillset unnecessarily.  13/12/11 at 100% Tier 3 Spell proc is the same output in terms of the Attack command as now roughly, maybe a bit better, but that's not a big deal because Magic Guns aren't the best for Attack damage anyway.  It is the best overall fix for maintaining the status quo and upsetting as little of the overall balance as possible while fixing the immediate problems.

So how about that weapon that only deals MP damage

There's already 3 weapons slated to being added that are strictly better than this in every way while still damaging MP

POST

@19%: The default hit rate for procs in FFT is 19%, not 25%.

@Mantles: Right now, the max evasion a Mantle can give is 24.  The Mantles FDC, myself, FFM, and some others worked out only cap at 30.  It is not very much "higher" at all, as you max evasion stack is only maybe 2-3% higher in the long run due to how evasion stacks work, it was just made more rounded and generally less awful considering every Accessory is a high-power item, and all the current Arena mantles... erm... suck, outside of the current Dracula Mantle, which is still terribly underpowered compared to other Accessories.

@Cheer Up: It's being removed because it's awful.

@Nurse: Yeah, it would still heal 33% HP.

@Blizzard: It means it adds both, if possible.

@Wild Blow: This skill makes any weapon into an Axe attack, basically.  Also, I hope you realize the problem solely resides with the "troublesome" Kagesougi is the 17 WP Blaze Gun that this set of changes addresses.  The skill is pretty awful otherwise.

@Concentrate: Concentrate sucks. Your average enemy unit has 15-20% Evasion at best, resulting in a net increase of 15-20% physical damage.  What adds even MORE Physical damage than that?  Attack UP.  Evasion in Arena is actually really shitty in the long term (something this update is looking to address with better Shields/Mantles, more M-EV affected skills, etc.), and all Concentrate does is give non-Ninjas/Thieves some options for cracking bulky Main Gauche users at the cost of their long-term DPS v everyone else who barely has any evasion to begin with.  The reality is, Concentrate is not that good when you're paying 650 JP after Squire overhead and your Support slot to use it.  It's also worth remembering that Blind in Arena overrides Concentrate (and Transparent) on top from being generally ridiculous and highly crippling to Attack-focused units and is something any evasion-dedicated team should be making use of anyway.

@Transfusion: You do realize Transfusion is generally worthless outside of fringe users and weaker than Murasame in almost every way even when in the hands of said fringe users, right?

@Execute: It still only works on Critical HP units.  This actually will take a lot of thought as to why this change was devised and I don't intend to spill the beans.  Once you figure out what it is, you will totally be like "FUCKING BRILLIANT."  But don't spoil it, let everyone else have the satisfaction of figuring it out for themselves too. :)

@Geomancy: The point of this set of updates is to make Geomancy overall better in the following update, but also remove the random bits where Geomancy can just score 4 OHKOs through Petrify on like half the maps in the game.  Current Geomancy sucks.  The buffs to general M-EV options, the addition to M-EV to Ninjitsu, and the buffing of its procs should hopefully resolve this.  As for your question to the stat buffs, it translates into Geomancer getting 1 more PA and MA in addition to a noticeable sum of MP.  It's also supposed to get 1 Jump, but FDC forgot.

@Bards/Dancers: Those songs still add their HP/MP, they just add those statuses on top of what they already did, and they're the two performing skills the AI loves to abuse anyway, so AI priority isn't affected.  The Regen/Poison are just small bonuses to make their long term use better, and in Wiznaibus' case allow it to be used without being 100% crippled by Auto Potion.  Fun fact: Another reason for these procs is to make Miming them better.  Oftentimes when we talk changes, we tend to (or at least I tend to try to push towards) changes that result in cool teams, such as Mime teams, or teams that can make use of the Execute change, etc.  Cool fringe teams keep the game fun, and it's very clear Arena has evolved long past the times of Mimes with Life Song or Dancers with Wiznaibus winning everything.

@Poison: Again, that was considered, and it's the point.  Poison's infinite duration allows it to suppress sandbagging from Phoenix Down and Wish, giving it an actual role in Arena as a powerful anti-sandbag status instead of something that's just there to annoy you sometimes.  You know, something you actually need to consider when making a team - if you rely on only Phoenix Down or Wish to revive your units, you better bring Burn Heal Antidote, or some way for those units to ensure Poison doesn't re-kill them right off.  It becomes a powerful tool for silencing rez loops and justifies the AI priority.  Regen mostly gets this privilege for parity reasons, and because it makes for more cool reasons to use Regen on those same Phoenix Down and Wish loving teams - their critical units can potentially get themselves out of Critical through a pre-death Regen and Move-HP UP, and Regen doubles as the best weapon against Poison.  In the end, both Statuses become leagues better and boring/lengthy rez-loop battles have a status that can silence them easily.

@Hidden Knife: See - Concentrate.  Consider it a class perk - Evasion is mostly negligible, and this allows Ninjas / Two Swords users to break bulky Main Gauche healers (sup DERP).  Sasuke Knife does kinda suck, but that's a matter for Sasuke Knife, not Hidden Knife.

@Muramasa: People don't even USE this goddamn thing anymore... :|

@Magic Guns: Again, you do realize the only problem is coming from Blaze Gun's 17 WP which is very clearly getting fixed, right?

@Bow Gun: I forgot this earlier.  It procs the Armor Break ability at 50%... which with a Bow Gun, has maybe a 30% chance of actually hitting.  .5*.3=.15%, less chance of breaking the target's armor than a weapon that casts Shellbust Stab at the default 19% proc rate, and it doesn't deal damage until subsequent hits, which in subsequent hits isn't a big deal since the base WP is still shit and can't be boosted by Two Hands or Two Swords.

@Salty Rage: Concentrate's coming back, sooo...

@Raise 2: The formula doesn't accept Elements, and making Cursed Ring immediately obviate every single primary weakness that comes with being Undead is a terrible idea.  If you pay more attention to the changes listed here, Undead teams got a TON of buffs.  They're just not the ones you'd expect.

@Water: Elements get unequal representation.  Lack of parity is what makes competitive games flow.  You also miss the advantage to Water not having too much representation - most enemies won't bother to do anything to block it.  Compare this to Fire or Dark, two of the most powerful Elements - but guess what, almost everyone wears friggin' Black Costumes to block them.

@Light Robe/P Bag: Really, the Weak: Dark shit on those could easily be dropped.  It's a completely pointless debuff as those items are generally meager in use.  Otherwise, as for the oneshot kill - "thems the breaks", risk v reward. If it's gonna be a risk, make it a real risk, don't weaken Demi 2 for the sake of giving them a meager infinitesimal chance of living with 1 HP.

Insult+Solution: Dear god no.  It's of note that (assuming Solution is flagged correctly, I don't have a patched Arena to look), the AI WILL use Solution, just not proactively.  It will use it as an idle-turn sometimes, but mainly to block an incoming spell.  It treats Faith the same way, and currently these two skills are the only ways to get Faith and Innocent without strings attached, so there's no reason to touch them if you know how the AI actually prioritizes their use.

@Auto-Potion: There's nothing really wrong with the 80 HP heal, though.  The only time it nulls damage out entirely is when your team has shit for offensive capabilities.  This actually brings me to the big issue I have with your grievance list and a big problem I had with Arena in general when I started bothering to give a shit about it - the approach to handling every problem is NERF NERF NERF, and the nerfing is almost always going way too far.  This is why a team like Y U SO DERP was able to (and in large is still able to) essentially terrorize Arena despite using a meager amount of otherwise garbage skills that are either so weak they CAN'T be nerfed or fine in the hands of literally everyone else.   Everything got nerfed way too far down, and constantly nerfing everything down just leads to making things even easier.  Since I've been pushing for Arena changes, you can probably notice the opposite trend if you thumb through the changelogs - while things that direly needed to get nerfed (Chirjiraden that one time, Blaze Gun this time, etc.) got nerfed - the main trend is to not weaken the strong, but to empower the weak.  You can see this general trend in this set of changes too, the weaker skills, items, and classes were for the most part buffed in order to solve balance issues, instead of directly addressing the issue with what would likely be an over-nerfing.  There is an art to realizing how to address problems from the side instead of the front, so to speak.





@FDC: Geomancer needs its +1 Jump noted.  There was something else I was going to mention, but I forgot in replying to The Damned's TL;DR, so I'll post it later.  EDIT: I remembered one of the things.  Holy should be subject to M-EV, that was also something we discussed before and would serve as a small nerf that would flow well with the rest of the changes upcoming. I still say we need to consider letting Echo Grass cure Berserk as well.  It needs some means of being cured, similar to the Undead status.  It's a powerful, debilitating status that only the Item skillset can cure and that can sometimes be used as a pseudo-buff or team building core otherwise, and with it becoming more prevalent as a negative status as well as a positive one, it should have one viable means of being healed outside of Refute.
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The Damned [Posts: 2072] Logged
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  • [May 12, 2012, 06:55:53 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #457 on: May 12, 2012, 06:55:53 AM »
(Sigh. I proofread all of that thrice and I notice at least one more typo. Ugh....)

Oh hey, Raven. Good to see you're still around. Why must you make me multi-quote at you first time I see you again, though?

Would this make Raise 2 fail to resurrect dead units that null Holy?   If so, holy-nulling equipment will be used much less frequently (which is a shame, as Small Mantle will get a lot better if it can help its wearer evade ninjutsu and summon magic).  How did 1.3 prevent Phoenix Downs from killing undead units?  Is there a passive modifier we can apply to reduce healing/resurrection damage here?

Yeah, it would unfortunately mean that Small Mantle (and Diamond Shield) would block Raise 2, though like I said, I've thought that Cancel: Earth & Holy was...underwhelming and I wouldn't mind it changing to something else. You make a good point about Small Mantle, though.

I like most of your suggestions, although I'm more inclined to remove Init: Berserk from all equipment and treat the status as a strictly negative, healable one.  Maybe that's too boring.

Oh, I'd be fine with Initial: Berserk being removed too. Salty Rage sucks. It just sucks slightly less with Concentrate around.

POSTERS TOAST POSTS.

1. 19%: Oh, right. I forgot about that discovery.

2. Mantles: Meh. If you guys are confident it wouldn't be a problem, then I can get behind since I agreed that mantles need a boost.

3. Cheer Up: Just because it's awful? Okay....

4. Nurse: Good to know.

5. Blizzard: Okay, cool.

6. Wild Blow: If you say so. I really don't see why it needs to unevadable, though.

7. Concentrate: Is it really "equal" to 15-20% more damage if you would utterly miss those times with Concentrate? Also, it's not like it's difficult to block Blind, especially when it comes universally available with Initial: Reraise. However, as you know I've admittedly never liked Concentrate and it's not nearly as bad as it would be as an innate (on anything other than Mime and even then it's iffy).

8. Transfusion: Considering how Murasame goes off MA, I don't see how it utterly outstrips Transfusion on units that don't need to worry about MA since its solely dependent upon max HP. I could perhaps understand halving the MP cost to 3, but getting rid of all together seems a bit much. Not that it will break anything. I'm just not sure it's necessary, though as you can see, I argue that Murasame can stand to be slightly weakened as it is.

9. Execute: Oh, so it's still restricted to Critical-only people? Then I have no problem with that change. As for why it does 40% HP now, I suppose I can guess, but considering it was almost never used before and I don't feel like doing math right now since I have a bunch of stuff I still need to type up, I suppose I'll just have to ponder it.

10. Geomancy: Oh, I understand all that, though it's nice to have knowledge of what the stats are, including the missing Jump +1. I just think "we" should probably get rid of Petrify in Geomancy in general and avoid Stop on the extremely common Hell Ivy, if only because of Counter Flood. It certainly helps that Local Quake is indeed less common than Carve Model--though it's still moderately common--and that it's actually Earth element, meaning it can be "Guarded" against by Float, but I don't see why it should stick around at all when there's other, less egregious negative status to use. I concur that Elemental has been weakened, but I don't think it's quite as weak as some of these changes make it seem to be, especially when you're boosting the stats of Geomancer itself (again).

11. Bard/Dancers: Oh, so Life Song and Wiznaibus still do their restoration and damage too? Things like that really need to be noted. If that's the case, then I suppose I'm fine with those. I still can't say I much agree the suggestions for Nameless Song due to Reraise or Nameless Dance due to Slow's priority to the AI.

12. Poison: Oh, I realized that when I said the infinite duration thing. It just rubbed me the wrong way. The way you explain it makes it seem a lot more palatable though, even if I don't really want Chemist to gain yet more power. Well, that and all of the equipment that blocks Poison, including the Always: Regen ones technically, are presently of dubious quality sans maybe Diamond Armor.

13. Hidden Knife: Meh. I suppose the "class perk" bugs me when Ninja already gets so much else between innate Two Swords and Ninjutsu currently being unavoidable. Perhaps with Ninjutsu becoming subject to M-EV and things with M-EV (that aren't Shields) becoming a worth a damn, my view of that will soften. I'll still probably consider it obnoxious given my loathing of Concentrate, though. But, yeah, Sasuke Knife's problems are largely its own. Still....

14. Muramasa: I'm aware of that. It still probably needs to change though.

15. Magic Guns: Uh, yes? What exactly is this in response to that you thought I didn't realize that? The shield comment? Or...?

16. Bow Gun: Oh, so it procs Shellbust Stab rather than just Armor Break from Archer like I thought it did? In a way that makes me dislike it even more. I'm obviously missing why Bow Gun would only have a 30% chance of hitting as well? Are we assuming Arrow Guard being ubiquitous despite your "most teams only have 15%-20% P-EV" comment to advocate Concentrate coming back? I ask that not because they're mutually exclusive; I just want to be sure.

17. Salty Rage: As I said above to Gaignun, I would still rather it die as is, at least with the AI's current treatment of Berserk (even if Stigma Magic and Esuna indeed no longer cure it despite what the Master Guide says).

18. Raise 2: Oh, right. I forgot that formula doesn't take elements. Damn. Oh well. As for Undead being buffed implicitly, I'm not seeing much at present besides their being immune to Execute (still) and to the new Throwing Knife's secondary effect. I'm not really sure what status interactions ARENA has kept if that's what you're getting at.

19. Water: I understand that. I'm not asking for parity in representation with any of the other elements. I am literally only asking Water to get one more absorbing-equipment so that you can finally build Water-Absorb teams since you've never been able since ARENA started and more attacking representation in one or two more abilities or weapons. That's it.

As it stands now, despite its scarcity supposedly allowing for it to be the theoretical lurking scourge of the elemental world, it has only one good weapon to its name in Whale Whisker since no one bothers with Coral Sword since Water is literally the only element that can't currently be used with Grand Cross because the only absorb is a piece of Clothing. Similarly, Aspergillum doesn't ever get to strengthen anything besides Suiton (if that ever gets used) since there basically is nothing else to strengthen: {Suiton, Leviathan, Water Ball, Quicksand}. (EDIT: I just realized that Aspergillum could perhaps make decent use of Grand cross, if only on Ninja and Geomancer.)

Water has only four whole skills to its name, two of which can't even be done on command and none of which can be AoE Absorbed like literally every other element because Leviathan only hits enemies and, again, Grand Cross isn't worth abusing with Water as it is right now since there's nothing to absorb it. Yet Water is in a three-way tie for second place when it comes to elements outright get nulled the most with Wind (which has 7 skills, all of which are actually usable even if three of them are also Geomancy) and Holy (which is obviously usable). It actually probably ends up more likely to blocked than Holy presently due to the current Vanish Mantle being a lot more usable than the current Small Mantle in addition Magic Ring seeing a lot less use. As it is, Water isn't the "secret killer" you're making out to be and that it should be. It sucks and generally isn't worth using except as part of a mere variation of an independent powerful set of skills (Ninjutsu), which doesn't prove anything in its favor considering how many people still only use Meiton.

20. Light Robe/P Bag: You're right. Fuck mercy. 50% HP damage Demi 2 it is.

21. Insult + Solution: I know I wrote a lot, but you, uh, seemed to have missed the part shortly thereafter where I concluded/realized that mixing the two was indeed a terrible idea. If the AI actually uses Solution, then fine. No need to change it. I have little problem with leaving it be at present if the AI actually will use it (even if it's still probably largely inferior to Thief's Heretic from what you're saying).

22. Auto Potion: So noted, even if I personally didn't think it was huge deal, at least compared to the people were thinking about the other, active potions. Just figured I would comment on it since I blabbing about everything else.

23. Nerfing: As for that, well, it's not like I don't realize that nerfing things just makes it so that something else essentially becomes "top tier" simply because something else always ends up on top. I just prefer to weaken things and build from there if necessary rather than overall strength a bunch of things at once and walk into a potentially greater clusterfuck--for lack of a better word since I loathe "quagmire"--that can be more difficult to pinpoint the worsened issue and would require some nerfing anyway. And it's not like I'm against strengthening things, otherwise I would have said that I outright rejected much of formerdeathcorps' lists for the things that weren't obviously problems like Blaze Gun. So I will concede that you have a point here, as usually do, but I don't much agree with it in this instance.


All that finally said, I've three (technically 4) equipment related suggestions:

1. Hidden Knife vs. Sasuke Knife: So, given what Raven said, I suppose I can begrudgingly let Hidden Knife keep its Always: Transparent since it's not like Hidden Knife itself does that much damage (though that was never the point). However, I would humbly request that it lose its Speed +1, especially since it can be used with Two Swords (as it "should" be). That let Sasuke Knife become the sole Ninja Blade(/Knife/Sword/Whatever) that had a speed boost. It would probably need more than that, but I'm not sure how many Item Attributes you have left and Sasuke Knife would still be sharing one with Sprint Shoes when it comes to even just Speed +1, so....

Not-So-Ninja EDIT: It just occurred to me (while properly proofreading this mess of a post) after I woke up that the "best" solution to this may just be to treat Sasuke Knife like the big Knife it is. As such, I would move for indeed taking away the Speed +1 from Hidden Knife and giving Sasuke Knife Speed +1 and Move +1. This would mean that Sprint Shoes also had Speed +1 and Move +1, but considering that almost no one is going to use those things as they are now, that's basically a bonus. Sasuke Knife could perhaps also use a bit more W-EV or even more point of WP as well.

2. Turn 108 Gems into Coral Ring: As I ranted at Raven above, there is seriously no excuse for Water to still be the only element that you can't make an absorption team out of...though you can make one that nullifies both it and Wind completely for some reason. (Earth and Holy too now that I think about and all four if you're feeling "adventurous".)

So, let it Absorb: Water and Block: Oil, Poison and Frog given that something also needs to block Oil and Absorbing Water isn't nearly as powerful as Strengthening every element, so this is actually weaker/less radical than the 108 Gems solution I was proposing, especially since it doesn't block Undead anymore.

3. Let Salty Rage Strengthen All Elements Alongside Other "Fun" Things: While I'd much rather get rid of damage boost that Salty Rage tries and fails to get with Initial: Berserk because it's ultimately too limiting in its options, adding Strengthen All Elements to it isn't necessarily mutually exclusive. However, I'd much rather Initial: Berserk die as a whole, especially since it doesn't interest anything interesting a strategy (unless you count handicaps interesting, in which there's this Stone Gun I'd like to sell you...).

As such, I'd say make somewhat a mix between Chantage and the current 108 Gems (that no one uses) and give it the properties of Initial: Regen, Block: Poison & Oil and Strengthen All Elements. I'm pretty sure we'll need more things to block Poison that aren't dubious if it's going to be an infinite duration status that doesn't go away even upon dying and is going to be added more things. We just need something else to block Oil so there's a choice since that will be more widespread than the Undead that 108 Gems lost (and N-Kai Armlet is proposed to have). Initial: Regen, even surviving past Dead and not being able to gotten rid of with Poison, shouldn't be too annoying while at the same time it should actually be useful. Same with Strengthen All elements.
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  • [May 13, 2012, 04:39:35 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #458 on: May 13, 2012, 04:39:35 AM »
Lemme know when there's a MP only damaging weapon thnx
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  • [May 13, 2012, 03:34:16 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #459 on: May 13, 2012, 03:34:16 PM »
16. Bow Gun: Oh, so it procs Shellbust Stab rather than just Armor Break from Archer like I thought it did? In a way that makes me dislike it even more. I'm obviously missing why Bow Gun would only have a 30% chance of hitting as well? Are we assuming Arrow Guard being ubiquitous despite your "most teams only have 15%-20% P-EV" comment to advocate Concentrate coming back? I ask that not because they're mutually exclusive; I just want to be sure.

I think he meant that chance to hit with armor break would be smaller then 19% percent. Considering that armor break is % based skill. Bow gun would be actually pretty badass to use afterwards.

About 19%, here's legit question, why not just change proc chance to 25%? I mean this would boost elements and a lot other skills.

Transfusion
Why does it need mp cost, it already costs hp?

Poison
Kinda cool status. Bad thing about it is that it will just help raise 2, a skill that I think should just die at this point.

Dia vs ninjutsu ton's(Meiton etc.)
Dia is a skill that has basically just different damage modifiers then ton's, so why does Dia have lower Y then ton's? I personally would have Dia and ton's with 9-8 Y so they would not make too little amount of damage, and not too high.

Upupupu...

Zetsubou
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