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FFMaster [Posts: 2483] Logged
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  • [April 29, 2012, 05:26:28 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #420 on: April 29, 2012, 05:26:28 AM »
All that I see will happen is that people will move from using Silence to using Don't Act if they haven't already. Silence with a CT is a poor man's Don't Act. Unless we nerf both somehow? I've never really messed with status CT before. I just know that Silence doesn't take CT in Patcher.

☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢
Gaignun [Posts: 325] Logged
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  • [April 29, 2012, 05:39:52 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #421 on: April 29, 2012, 05:39:52 AM »
That's true.  I suppose we could compromise.  Don't act has a CT of 20, so silence could have a CT of around 30.  Silence could also be made to prevent the use of all skills and give that poor man at least enough money to feed himself.  The fact that it doesn't take CT is a problem, though, forcing me to suggest we strip silence from nameless dance, which I think has already been stripped enough.  This would also apply with blind.  Considering the grief we've been having with nameless dance, perhaps it's time to redesign it into something that doesn't tend to break the AI - something like 50% chance of dispell.  Then again, if this change scares the AI into refusing to buff itself, then we're no better off.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1316] Logged
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  • [April 29, 2012, 06:17:27 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #422 on: April 29, 2012, 06:17:27 AM »
Nobody here complains that petrify or frog are perpetual and they are far worse than silence.  Why is there a sudden complaint against silence?

Also, nameless dance is a gamble but it can be used because you mess up your dancer's AI and the AI of the entire enemy team.  That's a fair bargain for being forced to run a unit who'll choose dancing over healing (much of the time) and a mime to ensure enough of the statues actually hit the target.  Thus, I don't think it needs to be changed to something radically different anymore.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
Gaignun [Posts: 325] Logged
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  • [April 29, 2012, 06:34:11 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #423 on: April 29, 2012, 06:34:11 AM »
I'm not complaining about petrify because nameless dance doesn't proc it.  Frog I have complained about, but I haven't yet been able to generate much dialogue about it.

If nameless dance messes up the dancer's AI as well as the opponent's, then perhaps it needs to be redesigned indeed.
Gaignun [Posts: 325] Logged
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  • [May 06, 2012, 06:44:35 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #424 on: May 06, 2012, 06:44:35 AM »
Most changes sound reasonable to me.

Quote
Summoner
Change: All spells CT > 4 take M-EV.

Summons on the whole are going to need a little shuffling around to keep the skill set balanced in this case.  Here are a few suggestions:

Leviathan: Dmg_F(MA*8), water elemental, 10% +Frog, 20 MP, 5 CT
Salamander: Dmg_F(MA*8), fire elemental, 30% +Poison, 20 MP, 5 CT
Titan: Dmg_F(MA*9), earth elemental, 20% +Don't Move, 20 MP, 5 CT
Silf: Dmg_F(MA*8), wind elemental, 20% +Don't Act, 25 MP, 3 CT

Quote
Add: Warpath (+3 Fury at end of the turn if moved, 300 JP)
Add: Holy March (+3 Faith at end of the turn if moved, 300 JP)

You sure about these?  I can't refuse new movement ideas, given how there are so few, but +3 seems a little high.  Faith UP and Brave UP will look terribly expensive by comparison.

Also, how does a movement skill that adds +5 CT for, say, 500 JP sound?

Quote
Dead:
Cancel Oil

I propose we add "Cancel: Frog" to this list.

Finally, what do people think about giving male mage classes a significant HP boost?  They are currently eclipsed by their female counterparts in terms of MA, and their extra PA is of little practical use.  They also have extra HP, but not enough to tempt people away from the females.  A boost of 10~20 HP might do the trick.  Pushing their HP past that of melee classes is not a problem, as they still won't have armour, shields, nor destructive power of these melee classes.  This would help differentiate the males from the females.  The males can be used as tanky support/status units, and the females can remain as glass cannons.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 06:56:40 AM by Gaignun »
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1316] Logged
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  • [May 06, 2012, 07:09:21 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #425 on: May 06, 2012, 07:09:21 AM »
Quote
I propose we add "Cancel: Frog" to this list.
I disagree for the reason that there should exist means to punish someone who just spams raise without actually bothering to heal status effects.  The part with dead canceling oil was only to resolve a bug where a boosted attack that becomes a 1HKO would not remove oil because dead status from the 1HKO was applied first.

Quote
given how there are so few, but +3 seems a little high.  Faith UP and Brave UP will look terribly expensive by comparison.
If we want, we can definitely reduce the bonus to +2.  However, given the JP costs are comparable to Brave/Faith Up, it shouldn't be that much of a difference.  The only difference is that Brave/Faith Up requires a bard to reliably use and this doesn't.

Quote
Finally, what do people think about giving male mage classes a significant HP boost?  They are currently eclipsed by their female counterparts in terms of MA, and their extra PA is of little practical use.  They also have extra HP, but not enough to tempt people away from the females.  A boost of 10~20 HP might do the trick.  Pushing their HP past that of melee classes is not a problem, as they still won't have armour, shields, nor destructive power of these melee classes.  This would help differentiate the males from the females.  The males can be used as tanky support/status units, and the females can remain as glass cannons.
I agree with you here, but we can't really do this without increasing the HP on all mage classes or on all males unless we fix how FFT calculates its HP growths.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
Barren [Posts: 1752] Logged
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  • [May 06, 2012, 10:13:57 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #426 on: May 06, 2012, 10:13:57 AM »
should we remove diamond sword and replace it with flame tongue?

Keep calm and stay classy, kupo!
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1316] Logged
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  • [May 06, 2012, 12:54:30 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #427 on: May 06, 2012, 12:54:30 PM »
should we remove diamond sword and replace it with flame tongue?
Considering how well my team synchronized it to platina dagger (or alternatively, 2S/2H), I'd argue otherwise, but I'm indifferent either way.  However, lightning elemental could use a decent melee weapon.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
Gaignun [Posts: 325] Logged
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  • [May 06, 2012, 01:19:36 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #428 on: May 06, 2012, 01:19:36 PM »
I disagree for the reason that there should exist means to punish someone who just spams raise without actually bothering to heal status effects.

Frogs will die even if teams come prepared to cure it.  At 150% incurred damage, they draw the entire enemy team's fire.  Also, support units restore the frog's HP over curing the status.  The only way to cure frog is to have a significant turn lead.  If you want statii to stick around after death, I suggest statii that don't break the AI.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1316] Logged
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  • [May 07, 2012, 04:59:28 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #429 on: May 07, 2012, 04:59:28 AM »
Quote
Also, support units restore the frog's HP over curing the status

That's standard AI behavior for every status effect that doesn't specifically change the AI behavior or isn't flagged KO or ignore.  The problem, of course, is that frog is not your average status.  An IRC poll shows most people support your change, so I guess I'll add it.

To replace it, I think poison and regen should persist after death.  Both are currently undervalued status effects that could use a boost.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
Shintroy [Posts: 62] Logged
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  • [May 07, 2012, 03:05:10 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #430 on: May 07, 2012, 03:05:10 PM »
Masamune should cost 400-500 JP, or at LEAST Haste 2 + Regen's JP cost combined.

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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1316] Logged
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  • [May 07, 2012, 03:10:27 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #431 on: May 07, 2012, 03:10:27 PM »
Masamune should cost 400-500 JP, or at LEAST Haste 2 + Regen's JP cost combined.

Don't worry.  It's getting nerfed to only affect two units at a time, one of which must be the caster.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
:D
CT5Holy [Posts: 920] Logged
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  • [May 08, 2012, 07:56:53 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #432 on: May 08, 2012, 07:56:53 PM »
A very little thing, but you know how some people will specify a unit order? Why not just arrange the units in the order that you want them? That little bit feels unnecessary.

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Barren [Posts: 1752] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 02:10:43 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #433 on: May 10, 2012, 02:10:43 AM »
I just looked at Bizen Boat as a weapon. It could use 1 more WP so it'd be on the same par as Masamune

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Shintroy [Posts: 62] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 03:06:38 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #434 on: May 10, 2012, 03:06:38 AM »
I just looked at Bizen Boat as a weapon. It could use 1 more WP so it'd be on the same par as Masamune

Make a weapon (Knife) that only damages MP.

Knife, Rod and Bow maybe.
:D
CT5Holy [Posts: 920] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 04:05:39 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #435 on: May 10, 2012, 04:05:39 AM »
Demi 2 should get buffed in some way. I was thinking of one of these:

1. Shorter charge time
2. Higher hit rate
3. AoE up to 2

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Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 3633] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 04:35:15 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #436 on: May 10, 2012, 04:35:15 AM »
A very little thing, but you know how some people will specify a unit order? Why not just arrange the units in the order that you want them? That little bit feels unnecessary.
That feature will be removed in the new memory card generator, it is indeed rather useless

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Shintroy [Posts: 62] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 05:10:28 AM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #437 on: May 10, 2012, 05:10:28 AM »
Seriously make some weapons that damage only MP.
There's enough hard counters for melee units.

I want to use Salty Rage
Barren [Posts: 1752] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 05:46:15 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #438 on: May 10, 2012, 05:46:15 PM »
I think we should also remove immune chicken on the gold helmet since we don't have to worry about brave being lowered anymore. maybe replace it with something else or just simply remove immune chicken

Keep calm and stay classy, kupo!
Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1316] Logged
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  • [May 10, 2012, 08:06:18 PM]
Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
« Reply #439 on: May 10, 2012, 08:06:18 PM »
Good point.  Also, switching back to Vanilla Procs means Local Quake would add Confuse again.  Any idea what it should add instead?

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
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