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R999
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  • [July 13, 2010, 02:22:28 AM]
[Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« on: July 13, 2010, 02:22:28 AM »
Black Knight from Final Fantasy Chronicles,



Grims R11



^ The goatee will be removed due to the confusion with his shirt color. Taking suggestion for the 2 red colors you see here.


Grims R9, R7



^Dark Knight variations.


Grims R5, R4, R3






Baron Grims R2



Facial hair.


Baron Grims R1



^ Please note this character was created in absence of Delita (for Delita fans you could say).


You should be glad that this isn't used instead... *cough*






More Concepts

Archael
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  • [July 13, 2010, 02:43:03 AM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Sheep Knight
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 02:43:03 AM »
use the white hair, bastard
Smash
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  • [July 13, 2010, 03:32:24 AM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Sheep Knight
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 03:32:24 AM »
Eh. I kinda imagined Baron Grims a mix between FE character's Hector and Hawkeye. Big old guy with an axe, Vagrant story'ish armor and look.


Not this. Looks unfitting and generic, according to LD's texts.
R999
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  • [July 13, 2010, 07:18:23 AM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Sheep Knight (R11)
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 07:18:23 AM »
Updated with new prototype R3 to R9 (main thread).

More prototypes will come.

Edit: Updated with R11.
Archael
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  • [July 13, 2010, 05:55:30 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 05:55:30 PM »
Give R11 grey hair and you will have a winrarrior

ps: R11's armor looks MUCH improved
Smash
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  • [July 13, 2010, 08:27:27 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 08:27:27 PM »
Too much going on in the armor, and dark colors make it worse. I can only tell two giant buttons and a shoulderpad.


Needs pallete tweaking and some cleaning up, and some depth.
R999
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  • [July 13, 2010, 08:51:40 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 08:51:40 PM »
Shapes and Depth
That's pretty much how he is though. Shoulder pad and 2 big buttons, the rest is mostly in black. Kind of like how Squires are like. The legs area needs to be reworked and... I seemed to have diluted some black colors, will be fixing that soon. When the Goatee is removed will be changing the chest plate slightly.

Palette
I had a blue armor on him before that didn't really work out.  He is a Black Knight (as in the sense that it would be similar to Dark/Fell Knights) and is currently the only hero wearing black armor. Please feel free to tweak the palette (and we do have extra colors if we rid of the reds).


@Voldemort: Oops forgot to post about this. We discussed this several times in chat and decided to keep White Hair unique to Desburiga / Lich.
Archael
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  • [July 13, 2010, 10:14:37 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 10:14:37 PM »
the hair isnt working with the armor

he looks too much like delita imho
R999
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  • [July 13, 2010, 10:33:39 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 10:33:39 PM »
^ He's suppose to look like Delita. Part of the design. He wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a Delita replacement. Well.. I'll give the hair another go after I am done with Balk. But I think you might be exaggerating it here... I mean, the hair is distinctively longer and shaped differently than Delita's. If you mean by dark skin and reddish brown hair, those characteristics won't be changed.
Archael
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  • [July 13, 2010, 11:38:22 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2010, 11:38:22 PM »
I understand looking LIKE delita... but he's delita's SAME HEAD

the copy / paste is too obvious...  /dislike
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Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4468]
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  • [July 13, 2010, 11:42:57 PM]
Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2010, 11:42:57 PM »
^

Also Arch, aren't you a bit early for xmas?

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    Smash
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    • [July 13, 2010, 11:59:50 PM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2010, 11:59:50 PM »
    Quote from: "Voldemort"
    I understand looking LIKE delita... but he's delita's SAME HEAD

    the copy / paste is too obvious...  /dislike
    ^
    R999
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    • [July 14, 2010, 12:18:26 AM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 12:18:26 AM »
    In actual pixel terms, Grims' face and hair difference can be described as significantly different. I am not trying to defend my hair derivations but I do want to point out the obvious differences.


    1) Forehead is higher up and smaller than Delita's (1 px). 99% of sprites actually share the same face (even among men and women) so this is a striking difference already.

    2) Bigger eyes than Delita's (1 px of extra eye white).

    3) Grims has a higher "nose" as can be seen from the 1 darkned pixel from Delita's nose area.

    4) Grims has a slimmer face (as can be seen from teh darker shading towards the corners of his face.

    5) Grims has partial facial hair. (part of the Goatee will remain (at least 3-5 pixels difference)

    6) Hair was completely done in scratch, definitely not copy and paste. And the pixel differences are striking.

    7) Hair color and face color tones are both dark, but Grims' colors are more Brown rather than red, and much less yellow.



    If it is the hair color, that likely won't be changed.  It is the only thing left that actually resembles Delita (along with the darkened skin color, even though the actual colors are very different).
    Archael
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    • [July 14, 2010, 12:55:48 AM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 12:55:48 AM »
    ask anyone who doesn't know about IA, or FFT for that matter

    they will say it's the same character but re-colored

    make him his own character

    not a Delita clone

    I am being 100% serious. He looks like a Delita clone right now

    Quote
    1) Forehead is higher up and smaller than Delita's (1 px). 99% of sprites actually share the same face (even among men and women) so this is a striking difference already.

    2) Bigger eyes than Delita's (1 px of extra eye white).

    3) Grims has a higher "nose" as can be seen from the 1 darkned pixel from Delita's nose area.

    4) Grims has a slimmer face (as can be seen from teh darker shading towards the corners of his face.

    5) Grims has partial facial hair. (part of the Goatee will remain (at least 3-5 pixels difference)

    6) Hair was completely done in scratch, definitely not copy and paste. And the pixel differences are striking.

    7) Hair color and face color tones are both dark, but Grims' colors are more Brown rather than red, and much less yellow.

    All these differences aren't enough, especially for someone who isn't working on the sprite (like me)

    If in FFT's story Delita had a REASON for looking like Grims (such as being related) I would say go ahead, but this seems so random

    Why does Grims look like Delita? Just cuz FFTIA has no Delita? Because they worked together in FFT? It just makes zero sense to me why they look so much alike.
    R999
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    • [July 14, 2010, 03:19:35 AM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 03:19:35 AM »
    You have a point indeed,



    even though I still don't think they are exactly alike. It is almost saying as if anyone with dark skin and red hair = automatically Delita's clone. What you are basically saying is, Larg is a recolored Orlandu (exact same face) and Ovelia is a recolored Agrias, Rofel is Vormav with a hood (again, exact same face) while the rest of the Shrine Knights are sprites made in 5 minutes each with variations of flat hair. Zalmo is a recolored Goltana, Beowulf is Aliste (exact same hair face and clothes), the rest of the FFT (including all generics) are just recolored versions of the generic face.  


    However given the options, what would you rather have? another blonde hair white face knight? As if we don't have enough of those? It would make sense for Grims to see Delita as a young brother figure who he had lost in the war — I know this is stretching it already. They aren't suppose to look the same, but Grims should have a resemblance to Delita Hiyral. Characters resembling one another is a common marketing tool. Does Elmdore and Sephiroth ring bells?

    I'll work on him some more later.. by the way, his hair in its current form is significantly longer than Delita's, of which you won't be able to see in the front view.
    Archael
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    • [July 14, 2010, 08:22:43 PM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 08:22:43 PM »
    I can see the differences, I'm not denying them.

    I just dislike the similarity that remains... he still looks a lot like Delita, for no good reason.

    I'll tell you what. Change his eye brows (slant) and you'll see that he'll stop looking like Delita in no time.


    Quote
    It would make sense for Grims to see Delita as a young brother figure who he had lost in the war — I know this is stretching it already

    That's fine. That can be a character trait. But it should have absolutely no bearing on HOW HIS FACE LOOKS.


    Quote
    Grims should have a resemblance to Delita Hiyral

    WHY!?

    They are not related. And EVEN ASSUMING Grims DID see Delita as a younger brother, that STILL wouldn't make them look similar.

    I'm sorry but you have give absolutely zero reasons as to why they need to look similar.


    Quote
    Characters resembling one another is a common marketing tool. Does Elmdore and Sephiroth ring bells

     Your Elmdor / Sephiroth marketing excuse is a fail.
    Sephiroth has Elmdor's style, YES. But he DOES NOT LOOK (face wise) like Sephiroth. They don't have the same facial shape and they don't have the same eye color.

    Your Grims looks alot more like Delita than Elmdor looks like Sephiroth.



    Quote
    However given the options, what would you rather have? another blonde hair white face knight? As if we don't have enough of those?

    He doesn't need to have white hair, that was just an idea.

    Please, just make Grims look like his own damn character. There's absolutely no reason why he needs to look like a Delita clone. Don't take my word for it, ask everyone in chat if he looks like a Delita clone. I'm sure they will agree. Maybe that's what you want when people play IA? "Hey look Delitas sprite with new armor and colors... hmm is he Delita's father? Son?". If so, then leave it as is.
    Zozma [Posts: 4604]
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    • [July 16, 2010, 10:29:51 PM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #16 on: July 16, 2010, 10:29:51 PM »
    honestly, such small sprites? they ALL resemble eachother a little bit, the portrait connecting the two would make the bigger difference then a petty few more pixel changes...

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    Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4468]
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    • [July 16, 2010, 10:44:01 PM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 10:44:01 PM »
    Quote from: "Voldemort"
    Quote tree
    qft

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    Kagebunji [Posts: 4322]
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    • [July 18, 2010, 01:27:26 PM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #18 on: July 18, 2010, 01:27:26 PM »
    I see why Voldemort see them similiar, I do to actually, hair is good and all, but face is the thing that makes it look similiar, change some pixels here and there, shade his forehead more etc, do anything you can to make him look less like Delita.
    Archael
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    • [July 18, 2010, 03:28:09 PM]
    Re: [Sprite] Baron Grims, The Black Knight (R11)
    « Reply #19 on: July 18, 2010, 03:28:09 PM »
    Quote from: "Kagebunji"
    I see why Voldemort see them similiar, I do to actually, hair is good and all, but face is the thing that makes it look similiar, change some pixels here and there, shade his forehead more etc, do anything you can to make him look less like Delita.


    qft
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