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Use of ePSXe before 2.0 is highly discouraged. Mednafen/RetroArch is recommended for playing/testing, pSX is recommended for debugging.

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Smash
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  • [July 08, 2010, 10:20:11 PM]
Re: The Esper thread
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 10:20:11 PM »
Quote from: "Voldemort"
perhaps shade that a little bit so it looks like cloth?
Perhaps.


V4

Worked on pallete, cape and crossbow arms.
Smash
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  • [July 08, 2010, 10:50:47 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2010, 10:50:47 PM »
Hey Twinees. Guess why I was busy to reply.

Quote from: "R999"
This isn't based on anything, but Twinees got me started on working on his eyes... since I felt he didn't look menacing enough,

Famfrit R1



By the way, superb job on this Famfrit Twinees. This is a nice start indeed.

I'd recommend an entirely new aproach. FFTA all the way.



...Btw, didn't we agree I was to make Famfrit...?
Archael
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  • [July 09, 2010, 01:46:53 AM]
Re: The Esper thread
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2010, 01:46:53 AM »
Quote from: "Smash"
Quote from: "Voldemort"
perhaps shade that a little bit so it looks like cloth?
Perhaps.


V4

Worked on pallete, cape and crossbow arms.


this looks very good.. I can definitely distinguish the character now

good job

detail is not overpowering either
Twinees (Legendary Dragoon) [Posts: 816]
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  • [July 09, 2010, 01:51:13 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 01:51:13 AM »
Smash, you can do the famfrit, it was only something i did when i was bored, just thought id make a start on something.
Just thought id make things easier for you, because you seem like you've tons of things on your plate atm.
R999
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  • [July 09, 2010, 02:15:15 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 02:15:15 AM »
Smash:: Very nice play on Shemhazai colors. She seems shorter than before, as well, is that a sheet limitation? Also, the way the cape extends out is quite different than FF12's (but that's really fine the way it is, but incase you wanted to follow the other design).

Indeed you said you were going to tackle Famfrit, but it has been... 5 days since? You mentioned that you were going to be away for a while, I thought you meant you were going to be inactive — thus when Twinees asked me if he could do Famfrit, I told him yes, but making sure that he is fully aware that you are also working on him.

I told Twinees about having the water holder attached on his back (like a sort of backpack) and chained up. Remember that these Lucavi need to have very natural standing poses, and in FFT's case they usually do not wield any kind of weapon until you see their attacking animations (such as that of ULtima1's sprite). However, please do go for whichever design that fits your boat. You've got his body, arms and legs shaped just right for him in that base sketch.


Voldemort: Yes indeed Famfrit looks quite different. I did that design out of creativity juice before I slept last night. We don't have to strictly follow their FFTA / FF12 designs, none of the FFT Lucavi's really did. Though I do want to see if people liked it or not.
The Kindly Shopkeeper
Lijj [Posts: 2039]
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  • [July 09, 2010, 02:47:46 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 02:47:46 AM »
16-Color BMP Edit please I'm having a lot of trouble simplifying it
Smash
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  • [July 09, 2010, 03:42:05 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 03:42:05 AM »
Quote
Smash:: Very nice play on Shemhazai colors. She seems shorter than before, as well, is that a sheet limitation? Also, the way the cape extends out is quite different than FF12's (but that's really fine the way it is, but incase you wanted to follow the other design).
Sheet limitations. Yup.

Quote
Indeed you said you were going to tackle Famfrit, but it has been... 5 days since? You mentioned that you were going to be away for a while, I thought you meant you were going to be inactive — thus when Twinees asked me if he could do Famfrit, I told him yes, but making sure that he is fully aware that you are also working on him.
Summer + Life = Low activity. Im helping out cause I'd like to see this proyect done.
Yeah, I don't mind. Collabs are great in that, the more help the better.

Quote
I told Twinees about having the water holder attached on his back (like a sort of backpack) and chained up. Remember that these Lucavi need to have very natural standing poses, and in FFT's case they usually do not wield any kind of weapon until you see their attacking animations (such as that of ULtima1's sprite). However, please do go for whichever design that fits your boat. You've got his body, arms and legs shaped just right for him in that base sketch.

Chained up seems nice.. Btw, I forgot to mention this before, (To everyone) for espers like these, it's better to post basic sketches first (like the famfrit one I posted), for critique to sharpen them up from the start. Posting completely done sprites (shading, palletes) has the risk of wasting effort once a big crit comes. In pixel art, this has happened to me many times already.

About the size restrictions:



Yeah Lijj, this is what I meant with the tail. Some shrinking might be nessesary; I'll try to get some edits in soon, without losing the shape.
R999
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  • [July 09, 2010, 04:35:49 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2010, 04:35:49 AM »
^ That is a very good point and you are absolutely right especially when it comes to Lucavi designs and the Ultima1 sheet. Although I am sure both Lijj and Twinees work in a different approach when it comes to prototyping. I highly recommend you guys to do like what Smash suggested (do the simple shapes outline first before going further, next time).
The Kindly Shopkeeper
Lijj [Posts: 2039]
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  • [July 09, 2010, 08:12:35 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 08:12:35 AM »

So to fit the tail in I had to change it everything else was close. I lost some of the big arm but that could be easily fixed.
Smash
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  • [July 09, 2010, 08:53:33 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2010, 08:53:33 PM »
Nice use of the small 8x8 extension there. I didn't even mention it thinkig it wouldn't be nessesary, but seems like a good touch for Mateus.

Im trying to simplify the shading and pallete as of now btw.

EDIT: A monumental task.. So I'll tackle it by parts, explaining along the way. Will be using other Lucavi as references.
R999
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  • [July 09, 2010, 08:58:53 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2010, 08:58:53 PM »
I didn't look at the lucavi sprites carefully last night...  Shemhazai is looking perfect, from colors to shading. I think it would be a good idea to start drawing basic shapes or outlines for her casting frames just so you won't run into problems with those arms and cape. I think we should try to do these before actually finalizing the full design just incase some parts might not fit.

Very clever use of that 8x8 extension Lijj!
The Kindly Shopkeeper
Lijj [Posts: 2039]
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  • [July 09, 2010, 09:00:39 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2010, 09:00:39 PM »
Good! once it's ready i'd like to go for the top five frames.
Smash
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  • [July 09, 2010, 11:04:35 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2010, 11:04:35 PM »
Everyone read this critique. Im still not finished with this post, cause I have to eat. Still, it covers the more important info on how to shade lucavi sprites.



[A] The original sprite. Tones everywhere of equal value, over-detailed, deficient pallete, not FFT style overall.
First off, everything's shaded with the same values, the arms, horns, plates.. You can't really distinguish one from another when piled up all together, and even less recognize any overlaping, at all. Too many details really make it look like an un-identifiable mess, and add to the general absense of depth. Only the arms are decent, yet the shading dumbs it down because it's over-contrasted, unlike the grey areas on the rest of the sprite. The pallete is not FFT like either.

[B ] First step to fix the body by parts. To simplify, I'll first clean up, define some basic shapes with different shades, and divide these parts in color groups.

[C] With the help of Belias's pallete, made some recognizable shapes to the piece. I also toned down the arms, and played with the anatomy a bit, to get it on proportion. At beginning stages, defining stuff should be the only goal, without going into details. Altima there for extra ref.

[D] Taking other pieces, and shading them with another color group, this time grey to tell them apart from the blue body.

[E] Joined the pieces up, and refined the shapes a bit using a ref. Also, defined some prominent shapes there too in the torso.

[F] Defining more. Notice how the pieces closer to the viewer, like the arms, were lit up shading wise. This to effectively tell them apart from the pieces they'll overlap soon. Altima and Zalera exhibit the best examples of this.

[G] Last piece cleaned up.

[H] Now everything joined in. Front pieces have more light, back pieces the opposite, and there's a rough but solid shading sketch there. These values should survive through the shading step in order for the sprite to look good quality wise.


Still need to shade and pallete this.
R999
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  • [July 10, 2010, 12:08:12 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2010, 12:08:12 AM »
^ That was excellent Smash!  The large canvas of the Ultima Sheet does allow room for good detail and shading. Using a good palette is often overlooked (always try to prepare a good — 4 or sometimes 3 tones per color usually, well distributed — palette before you do much work). You are spot on on a lot of these points.

You also covered another very important aspect that's often overlooked; showing overlaps. This is often more difficult to achieve than said. Altima1 is indeed a very good example of this.

I am not sure if I'd recommend breaking apart the shapes though however... often the joining up process can be very time consuming (at least it is so for me).
Smash
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  • [July 10, 2010, 01:22:17 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2010, 01:22:17 AM »
Quote from: "R999"
I am not sure if I'd recommend breaking apart the shapes though however... often the joining up process can be very time consuming (at least it is so for me).
This applies to my case only though. A pre-made sprite.
One does everything automatically when making it from scratch.


Im having a hard time here figuring out how to shade those armor plates on Mateus btw, which turned out harder than I thought.  :x i think I understand Lijj now.  

This could take some time.
Smash
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  • [July 10, 2010, 03:49:12 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2010, 03:49:12 AM »
Well, I did some more on it

[attachment=0:2uirvqxh]Upload.png[/attachment:2uirvqxh]


Lijj: Although incomplete, this should serve a good starting point. Head and main body is already done, but before you continue, make sure to limit yourself to the 12 color pallete there. Remember to only apply the most prominent of details, instead of every line on the ref.

Also, Belias is your friend. Try to make the shading look as much as him as possible.
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [July 10, 2010, 02:32:12 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2010, 02:32:12 PM »
Looks great, is it possible though to put either of her hands into one of the gauntlets, or would that be very difficult to pull off?

"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Archael
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  • [July 10, 2010, 03:18:08 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2010, 03:18:08 PM »
The Kindly Shopkeeper
Lijj [Posts: 2039]
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  • [July 10, 2010, 07:05:04 PM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2010, 07:05:04 PM »
Not only is Mateus going to be an intimidating boss; she also intimidates us developers...
Twinees (Legendary Dragoon) [Posts: 816]
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  • [July 11, 2010, 02:15:11 AM]
Re: The Esper/Lucavi Thread, Shemhazai, Mateus, Famfrit.
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2010, 02:15:11 AM »
UPDATE:


Bazooka/Ewer still needs to be done.
Fix up lower section of body.
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