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Lijj's Sprites  (Read 54044 times)
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The Lazy Spriter
Kagebunji (Global Moderator) [Posts: 4093] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 11:57:30 AM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #500 on: June 09, 2011, 11:57:30 AM »
Sad to hear you are retiring from doing FFT sprites. But please do keep around, if not for doing the FFT sprites, then for pure symphaty I have toward you, Lijj.

Thou art I, and I art thou...
Wolfran [Posts: 307] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 04:36:28 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #501 on: June 09, 2011, 04:36:28 PM »
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Lijj, please don't leave. You are not wasting your time here, your work is really amazing and many ppl enjoy it. I really like your sprites and your style to do portraits, it'll be a shame if you leave and I know a lot of ppl, including me, will miss that unique style that makes your sprites epic.

Welcome to FFH were you can do things like...
-Event editor- Creator of CoP
Kokojo [Posts: 1752] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 05:08:55 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #502 on: June 09, 2011, 05:08:55 PM »
I am sorry that I can't properly comment on your sprites since I am a very bad spriter myself with no pixel art talent. Your work here has been amazing and I am already using many of your sprites and awaiting for one more. (And I am planning on using the

However I can understand your desire to leave, but I want to forbid you to do that. At least stay and watch the community. You're quite the laugh and quite the hapiness, so please stay.

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Mando [Posts: 367] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 05:29:15 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #503 on: June 09, 2011, 05:29:15 PM »
I've been busy... summer courses. Research, patch and s5 watching during off time. So I hadn't been paying too much attention to the forums and been super afk via irc.

I have always found lijj's portraits to look good and infact I prefer them to the FFT originals because they have a better look about them, in my opinion.
Of course I do side with lijj on the critiques part and I personally do not feel that "it doesn't feel/look like FFT" is NOT a valid critique anymore... if that was the case there should be 0 new sprites, 0 new ASM, and everyone should just go play fucking vanilla and bask in the fucking plain ass normal glory they all seem to want.

Also, this isn't art school. When you critique someone always mention positives and possible ways to fix things if there is an "error" like hey it is dark at spot Y and your light source is right in front of that. I mean obvious things like that.

If Lijj doesn't feel like making sprites anymore I can completely understand and I won't ask him to stay around, since I keep in contact with him regardless of FFH. I am going to use a majority if not all of his sprites somewhere in my patch, and I do push forward with it even though sometimes it bores me. He has put a lot of work into sprites and it would be a shame not to use them. The same goes for all other sprites that have been shown no <3

I will also probably not be involved with spriting section after this though. I only hung around usually to see his work no other reason for me now.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 05:31:59 PM by Mando »

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GeneralStrife [Posts: 1435] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 05:34:49 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #504 on: June 09, 2011, 05:34:49 PM »
Lijj I think your portraits look fine. There's no reason to always have to conform to the style. But if you really are burnt out on fft, then there's nothing stopping you, I'm sure everyone understands.
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2939] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 07:14:29 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #505 on: June 09, 2011, 07:14:29 PM »
Chillax, Lijjiboy.  If people didn't appreciate you, this wouldn't be a huge 26-page thread, and you wouldn't have made people rather happy with sprites many times over.  Remember, I'm the overly-perfectionist, overly-demanding old bastard with obscene standards of qualities for everything.  There's a reason most of my own work is done slowly and methodically.

I have accepted it; I don't really fathom the hair in FFT ports, I'm mostly just getting bored.. I think I've made 22 sprites already.
I don't accept the pillowshading crit but what Raven said is actually true. Maybe when I feel a passion for it in time I'll be at it again.

You sound like you just need a break, honestly.  You crank out sprites far faster than most other people from what I can see and as much of a dick I am about your portrait hairs I know you're trying.  If I didn't think you were trying, I wouldn't even bother pointing it out.  I don't waste my time critiquing useless shit from people who don't seem like they actually want to improve.  if you were some awful spriter working for ungrateful children, I'd spit on you and ignore you entirely - I'll be upfront about that.  Even if I'm giving you a harsh as fuck crit, I'm doing it because I appreciate your work and want it to be improve.  If it were really bad or I really didn't appreciate it, I wouldn't bother to check through your thread at least once in a while and critique stuff.

Take a break, come back to it later.  You may just be in a rut where you've become so used to doing things a certain why that you're hitting a wall for that reason alone.  Air out, work on other things, come back when you've had time for your particular habits in regards to FFT portraits to die down a bit.

Alternative, have you considered seeing if you could find someone willing to work on the final touchups to your portraits, like handling hairs and other random bits?  There's nothing wrong with a bit of teamwork, especially when you're only relying on that person for the final stretch.  I know there's also artistic pride, so I understand if you want to go "grawrawrawr fuck other people I work alone I'm the goddamn batman!", but it is a thought.

(How do we have a Link sprite and not a Batman sprite, exactly?)

Now excuse me, while I take care with a bit of "business" that was indirectly directed my way.

I personally do not feel that "it doesn't feel/look like FFT" is NOT a valid critique anymore... if that was the case there should be 0 new sprites, 0 new ASM, and everyone should just go play fucking vanilla and bask in the fucking plain ass normal glory they all seem to want.

...And you, sir, are a fucking retard with no sense of aesthetics if this is the kind of shit you're going to spew.  I could spend an hour completely eviscerating this and making you look like the stupidest man ever, but it's not worth my time.

Also, this isn't art school. When you critique someone always mention positives and possible ways to fix things if there is an "error" like hey it is dark at spot Y and your light source is right in front of that. I mean obvious things like that.

"Always fellate our artists every time you go to point out a way in which they could improve their work otherwise they might rage quit."

...Seriously?  If you can't handle accepting negative critiques without turning into a touchy-feely little mess then you should seriously never go into any field ever where you may accept critiques.  Not everyone is coated with sugarplums and butterflies.

People do get frustrated once in a while if they hit a wall, but that's different from this.



(@ People saying "I like your portraits anyway", I'm not addressing you with that.  You're free to like the things you like, art is a subjective thing after a point, and most people are less picky than I.  I'm specifically speaking to the retarded mindset Mando has presented here.)
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Mando [Posts: 367] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 08:05:48 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #506 on: June 09, 2011, 08:05:48 PM »
There  is a difference between critiquing someone over an error and there is a difference between critique over preference. Your comment on the hair style is clearly preference over error.

The portrait looks how it does due to a tweak to the FFT style. Also when you critique someone the goal is for them TO LEARN. In order to facilitate learning you need to make the person realize that they are doing things correctly as well, you learn this in educational psychology.

I will not get into a argument with someone who is simply going to go on all out attack directly at me; that would just be showing my ass and people do that enough on FFH as is.

Also ever want to know why there aren't more spriters at ffh anymore? Look back at some old posts. I can understand when someone is completely green at spriting and needs to be shown "correct" ways to do things; otherwise I mean as long as people are putting forth effort in creating something bring something useful that is fairly close if not better than what original FFT has, it should be fine.

Perhaps I am just nicer to people when they have put effort in their work and respect it.

Also "...And you, sir, are a fucking retard with no sense of aesthetics if this is the kind of shit you're going to spew.  I could spend an hour completely eviscerating this and making you look like the stupidest man ever, but it's not worth my time."

That is pretty uncalled for, I don't go around attacking attacking you personally. I was just stating that when people say things aren't fitting in with FFT... its not really valid because it is a modding community. So modifications to animation/sprites that derive from the original should have the right to appear somewhat different.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 08:08:29 PM by Mando »

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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2939] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 08:51:05 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #507 on: June 09, 2011, 08:51:05 PM »
There  is a difference between critiquing someone over an error and there is a difference between critique over preference. Your comment on the hair style is clearly preference over error.

If you want to call having a game with proper and consistent design aesthetics and an expected and consistent standard of quality a "preference" and not an expectation, sure.  Most competent designers would call these things givens and not preferences, though.

The portrait looks how it does due to a tweak to the FFT style. Also when you critique someone the goal is for them TO LEARN. In order to facilitate learning you need to make the person realize that they are doing things correctly as well, you learn this in educational psychology.

Funny, considering...

Also, this isn't art school.

Art school doesn't teach people art then, according to you.  Good to know, avoiding that shit like the plague.

You learn by finding and correcting errors, then using this knowledge to not repeat those errors.  Positive reinforcement helps but is not always required.  If you really want to go there, most of my critiques to Lijj do involve both some kind of positive, and at least a vague nod to how to fix it.  Do I do it every time?  No.  Lijj is a big boy who is very used to my critiques and should know that there's plenty I think he does right.  Again, positives are nice, but not everyone is going to give one.  Some people (myself and Asmo most commonly) are generally going to say "this is wrong, fix it" and save the "this looks awesome" for when it actually does look awesome.  You know what?  We're not the only people like that.  Again, the world isn't sugarplums and butterflies.  Many people are harsh.  You know one of the times many people remember as being a golden time of FFH?  When many of our critiquers were harsh and demanding as hell instead of this touchy-feely "I like it even though I have no standard of quality because you worked on it even if it's awful" type bullshit we have running around these days.

Grow some fucking skin and this site might be awesome again.  We're getting back on track, but we're not there.

I will not get into a argument with someone who is simply going to go on all out attack directly at me; that would just be showing my ass and people do that enough on FFH as is.

If you're going to present an opinion, have the balls to defend it.  Don't act like some know-it-all arbiter of everything then try to back down under some guise of "being the bigger man" when someone comes out and challenges you.  If you're right, come and fucking prove it.  If you're wrong or you can't, grab a chair, sit down, shut up, and let the people who can do that handle things.

You're not being the bigger man.

Also ever want to know why there aren't more spriters at ffh anymore? Look back at some old posts. I can understand when someone is completely green at spriting and needs to be shown "correct" ways to do things; otherwise I mean as long as people are putting forth effort in creating something bring something useful that is fairly close if not better than what original FFT has, it should be fine.

Perhaps I am just nicer to people when they have put effort in their work and respect it.

You mean to tell me the fact people have an expectation of consistent quality and are willing to give opinions bluntly without groveling has weeded out less dedicated spriters from FFH?

People put forth effort, effort should be cultivated into something usable.  There's a difference between respecting people's work and lying to their faces.  If I gave Lijj a big pat on the back and said "every sprite you made is perfect man, keep it up", I'd be lying out my ass to him and knowingly allowing him to release works I feel can be further improved.  You know what that would make me?  A useless critic, and an asshole not helping anybody.  I already am an asshole, but I'm happy being only 1 out of 3.  You're basically telling me to be all of those.

I refuse.  If people don't like that their work is being held to an expected standard of quality for community use by people who themselves should have an expected standard of quality if they intend to be anything beyond jokes as designers, they don't belong here.  People are expected to improve and eventually meet the standard of quality set by everyone else here.  Honestly - me doing that would be a lack of respect for their work, because I'm setting them up to fail.

is pretty uncalled for, I don't go around attacking attacking you personally. I was just stating that when people say things aren't fitting in with FFT... its not really valid because it is a modding community. So modifications to animation/sprites that derive from the original should have the right to appear somewhat different.

I am a very uncalled for person, but your ignorant statements called me here.

"We mod things, so it not fitting in is allowed."

That's the most retarded sack of shit anyone has ever said ever.  You know why?  Many edits to animations and sprites do seemlessly fit in with the rest of the game.  Others do not.  I call for the ones that do not to meet the standard of quality set both by the ones that do and by our source material.  You've basically just said "we're modding, we don't need to adhere to any standard of quality."  Do you know why people laugh at lolswordskill patches all the time?  Because they do not meet with the standard of quality set by this community.  I guess we should throw all our standards of quality to the shitter and start humping each other because "we're modders!"  Standards of quality are how communities run.  Standards of quality are how work gets done in a timely manner and on an acceptable level.  Without standards, this entire site is worthless.  Period.  People not willing to accept this need to get lost, and everyone else needs to work on getting us back to our gold standard.  Really, it'd be like me adding Rob Zombie to FFT and literally using a screenshot of him as the portrait.  Would you not go "what the fuck did this stupid noob do?"  Really?
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Mando [Posts: 367] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 09:20:46 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #508 on: June 09, 2011, 09:20:46 PM »
Is it your agenda to point out that your absolutely right? You have drawn the wrong conclusion when I said this isn't art school. In art school you get critiuqed to hell and back and get very little positive feedback. Which happens here a lot. Also When it cones to modding I said that things can be somewhat different. Aesthetic wise I do see the point your trying to make and I respect your opinion. I am simply stating that I do not think it always needs to be pointed out. Lijj like you said has made a ton of sprites INCLUDING the power ranger sprites. Which brings me to ask where power rangers fit into the whole aesthetics of looking like they belong in FFT. Sure it's a special patch, for fun. However this is what many people do with their patches which is why i have the opinion that small differences shouldn't be that big of a deal.

If something doesn't fit right with someone they can always change it to suit their needs. Which is what I do. Also I apologize to lijj for posting this here in his topic; I  did not realize this would turn out harshly.

Last this isn't about growing some skin or becoming tougher. It's about respect to fellow community members. Not groveling or anything. In fact there are many kind people on here. Yes critiques will have their place but being a bit positive when critiquing isn't a bad thing and people will often react better.

These posts between us is a good example of positive and negative wording; I didn't make my initial post with the intent of offending or drawing a comment from you and yet I must have. I do apologize for any offense on that part. However I do not like, like many people, when I am talked down to like a dumbass just for not agreeing with you.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 09:48:46 PM by Mando »

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Lijj [Posts: 1838] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 10:34:20 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #509 on: June 09, 2011, 10:34:20 PM »
  Standards of quality are how work gets done in a timely manner and on an acceptable level.  Without standards, this entire site is worthless.  Period.  People not willing to accept this need to get lost, and everyone else needs to work on getting us back to our gold standard.  Really, it'd be like me adding Rob Zombie to FFT and literally using a screenshot of him as the portrait.  Would you not go "what the fuck did this stupid noob do?"  Really?
ROFL... but I fully agree
When I see mods with ripped graphics from multiple games or screenshots it triggers pure pain.
I almost ragequitted because the whole spriting section died, no one told me the hair looked chunky for a week, and Twinees hasn't been around (but he's not gone- I have a surprise at the end of this post for you all : ) ). Too bad Smash isn't around at all anymore as well. I think I'm just in need of a vacation really. I'm going to the state fair tonight then I'm going to work on some other hobby for a bit.. This site may as well be my homepage so I guess I can't ragequit.. I just slept 12 hours and was a lil ill. I blame grouchiness.
I wasn't even mad about the critique; it was just triggered by it I guess; and the time I waited for it. I only have disdain for know it alls that don't have anything to show. Like the pillowshading thing.. that didn't set me in the right direction; all it did was degrade me. It was really wrong looking yes, but it was a matter of contrast and chunkiness; the lightsource was still in the right place so it can't just be called pillowshaded. Raven actually gave me a clue of what was going wrong so I actually appreciate it... We just need more spriters here cause sometimes it's hard for me to accept peoples' credibility.
Keep the standard up but know us spriters toil... I'm guessing we've all put in many many hours of work on our own dime.

About those Power Rangers. As anachronistic as they are, we really molded them into fft style almost seamlessly and that's pretty strange. I still don't get how that works but they actually fit due to the input I got from you guys.
Yesterday was one of those days some artists/ppl have when there is nothing good in life and all the hundreds of hours you've spent at a table or on a computer are a waste.. and sorry for calling you all ungrateful children.. I can't believe I said that lol
 Next time I'll ask earlier instead of wait a week then blowup.. and the surprise:


Year of the horse; charge into success.
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2939] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 10:45:34 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #510 on: June 09, 2011, 10:45:34 PM »
Haha.  Yeah, I agree on the Power Rangers.  They should NOT fit, but they DO.  Honestly, I agree, that's in large part because of good feedback from multiple people.  I figured that was just a bad mood happening, myself.  It happens to everyone.  If I knew ye silly spriter terms I could probably help a lot more with giving you critiques about the hair, but that one thing I pointed out is the one thing I notice you have consistent trouble with even though I can never figure out how to put it into words properly.

Also, le holy sheets, Twinees did very well fixing up that portrait.  It's looking really well now.  You should consider trying to see if you can make Twinees into your portrait-bitch... err.... partner in crime.  I'd be a great partnership I think, at least till you've got a better grasp on doing hair better, and it'd probably make things a bit less stressful for you.

(And yes, this ungrateful child knows that he's a know-it-all with nothing to show, but he's still awesome.)
Lijj [Posts: 1838] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 10:54:02 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #511 on: June 09, 2011, 10:54:02 PM »
Yeah for sure til I stop doing my own ideas of hair.. we should be working together (Twin and I).
And you have two patches coming out so once you have a finished product you'll be the shit and I wont second guess your critiques anymore.

edit- I'm looking forward to more patches than I mentioned too btw- I was exhausted last night. there's so many things beyond vanilla coming out soon hopefully
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 10:56:48 PM by Lijj »

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GeneralStrife [Posts: 1435] Logged
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  • [June 09, 2011, 11:58:38 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #512 on: June 09, 2011, 11:58:38 PM »
Honestly Lijj, I love your portraits. 'Pillow Shading' is retarded, and really an opinion. What I like about your ports is it looks like they are much more lit than the vanilla ones. Which makes sense because most settings in good old FFT are quite lit. These areas I've circled that people would probably call 'Pillow Shading' I think are just find highlights of the imaginary lightsource hitting the character.
Slowly resuming pixel art ~
jimmyjw88 [Posts: 2893] Logged
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  • [June 10, 2011, 03:28:10 AM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #513 on: June 10, 2011, 03:28:10 AM »
I could explain what pillowshading really is in my defense but why should I bother..
Actually, regardless of your defense, pillowshade is just not the right way in pixel art. Basically, it's not about "oh, that's not FFT style.." etc, it's more about the natural feel and look of it. Forget FFT, even if you're doing bigger piece of art, pillowshade still isn't right because it'll turn them into blobs of art. You can go google around some pixel arts and compare them with yours. You could also google "pillow shading" and there are tons of tutorial and examples lying around with comparison between pillow shading and the right way of shading in pixel art and you'll see why. You really need to learn from Twinees. I know that you have your style but just fix up the pillowshades and you'll be set.
To be honest, I like your sprites but not your portraits. They are unique but just not right for me because I've actually pillowshade and band myself previously but after going through several tutorials and examples that Smash recommended and linked, I now understand why, although I still suck at it currently. Anyway, all the best, Lijj.

Cheers ~
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 04:34:50 AM by jimmyjw88 »
Kindly upload the images to other image hosting sites. I can't view imageshack. Thanks.
The Lazy Spriter
Kagebunji (Global Moderator) [Posts: 4093] Logged
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  • [June 10, 2011, 10:59:32 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #514 on: June 10, 2011, 10:59:32 PM »
I must say it is my fault the section died as well. Lately I am kinda lazy to do long and helpful crits. After Izirudo left, I got my hopes down, but Red got them back up(keep at it, you!). So from now on I will move my lazy ass and give some input actually. Btw, when will we see Parivirs submitted? :)

Thou art I, and I art thou...
Lijj [Posts: 1838] Logged
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  • [June 10, 2011, 11:18:56 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #515 on: June 10, 2011, 11:18:56 PM »
Very soon; I will submit those likely this weekend.
Yes we still have the new spriter with potential Redworld. And Wolfran is active enough- (I'd like to see more though you!).

 Jimmyjw good to see you and I will be working on it..
 I really WANT to get good so I've been practicing some different pixel techniques (Dithering and Anti-Aliasing mostly) for the last two days. I'll post the scene I'm doing here soon as well, since I'm about done.. a lil 2 1/2 days work pixeling project of a tree and a sunrise. I'll be sure to go over more avoiding shading errors tutorials and maybe hair pixeling tutorials if I find some. I will also be studying twinees' portraits.

Update: I finished the experimental dithering practice.. the original goal was to use 16 colors but the attempt of making the sky pleasant in those limitations was too much of a challenge so it ended up being 19 colors:
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 04:38:07 PM by Lijj »

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TheChad [Posts: 17] Logged
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  • [June 11, 2011, 02:11:46 AM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #516 on: June 11, 2011, 02:11:46 AM »
Lijj,

I don't know what dithering is, but that tree looks awesome!  I don't really know anything about spriting but I really like that last portrait you did - please stick with it!

Chad
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jimmyjw88 [Posts: 2893] Logged
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  • [June 11, 2011, 04:13:12 AM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #517 on: June 11, 2011, 04:13:12 AM »
Dithering is a technique that use individual pixels in either an organized pattern or random scattering, in order to create a texture and the appearance of a much higher color count than may actually be present in the piece of PixelArt.

Example:
Notice how the one on left looks more chunkier than the right? Instead of just shading, the technique uses checkerboard pattern with two colours side by side making it appears to be more blending.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 04:33:21 AM by jimmyjw88 »
Kindly upload the images to other image hosting sites. I can't view imageshack. Thanks.
Tea [Posts: 175] Logged
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  • [June 11, 2011, 09:50:51 AM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #518 on: June 11, 2011, 09:50:51 AM »
That sunrise does look very nice. The lens flare is very well executed, the texture of the tree is very well done, the grass and the field look lovely. The only thing that irks me, are the roots. They are relatively well-lit, but the lightsource, the sun, can't really reach them; it looks like the highlights are not consistent, and the tree-texture is gone. On the lower-right, there look to be two roots that are almost mirrored. That would be the best example for the lightsourcey thing I mean.
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  • [June 11, 2011, 01:39:42 PM]
Re: Lijj's Sprites
« Reply #519 on: June 11, 2011, 01:39:42 PM »
That tree is the kind of thing that had I seen it in a video game when I was little I would have had nightmares for a week. Good show! :P
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