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philsov [Posts: 4599] Logged
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  • [April 11, 2010, 10:09:07 PM]
Random and DD battle suggestions - 32% Complete!
« on: April 11, 2010, 10:09:07 PM »
The deep dungeon will be an end-game Arena with very difficult enemies.  However, the party size will be limited.  There are two floors for a single unit, two floors for a pair, two floors for 3x, two floors for 4x, and then finally 5x for remainder.  For floors with 1 or 2 (maybe 3?) units, controllable Explorer Guests will be provided for one fight.  They have innate Death Sentence, 1 movement, high speed, no gear, and no skills.  They are however very well placed :).

Random fights... are just that.  The only intentionally difficult ones will be the rares (1 per map) and Dolbodar Swamp.  Dolbodar because that will be the Bountiful Land of Previously Poachable Goodies, and the rares because, dammit, they're rare.

There is a limit of 4 sprites for all enemies, though palettes can go wild. Please keep this in mind.

Please post if you've got any ideas!  

Total randoms: 59/202

Total DD: 18/41




















~






Already slated:
Hi-Ho boco! -- featuring 5x guest chocobos (with intentions to be ridden) against 5x mounted enemies on chocobos

etc etc etc!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 12:04:21 AM by philsov »
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2848] Logged
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  • [April 12, 2010, 12:28:55 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 12:28:55 AM »
1 Princess, 1 beefed Minotaur, and a legion of Marlboro class monsters for the Beauty and the Beast fight imo.  That way the Beauty, the Beast, and the tentacle fetish are all adequately covered.

For the 5v5v5, are they all undead?  That'd be kinda epic, especially at Poeskas Lake North.  Only problem is the nasty 9 Sprite cap, but Miluda + Algus + female Time Mages + male Knights on each side or something should do the fight fine.

Chess - 2 male Knight, 2 female Oracle (Bishop), 2 Monk (Rooks [Earth Slash attacks in a line!]), 5 Squire (Pawns).  Monks could alternatively be Samurais or Archers though pending on how "Rook" is interpreted, though.

I see a problem with Hi-Ho Boco!, though... the Chocobos will often go before the players and end up out of mount range.

Other ideas:

Custer's Last Stand - a bunch of (4-5) male Engineers with various skillsets / equips mounted on various classes of Behemoths (if you didn't do that monster switch thing, sub Red Chocobos).  If possible, start the party in two teams in a way so they surround the enemy.

Drakengard! - A ??? Squire (using the blue palette like you see on the lead Squire in the 1.3 Mandalia Plains battle) with Guest Gafgarion's Dark Sword as secondary and Dragon Spirit reaction mounted on a ??? Red Dragon.  (Only possible if you do that mountable monster manipulation thing.)

Heretic Hunt - 2 Holy Knights with the Knight sprite, 1 Holy Priest with the Priest sprite, 2 Knight Blades with the Lancer sprite.

Child's Trading Card Thieves! - 5 Thieves.  1 is the male Thief "Zaloog", with a forced pair of (Mythril/Stone?) Guns, Move +2, Speed Gear, Talk Skill secondary.  2 is another male Thief "Gorg", with a forced Scorpion Tail, Two Hands, Basic Skill / Punch Art, high HP / tanking gear, Move-HP UP, MP Switch.  3 is the male Thief "Cliff", with a forced Zorlin Shape + Crystal Shield, Move +2, Move Gear (Speed when Move isn't optimizable with that equip slot), Throw secondary, Defense UP, Hamedo.  4 is the final male thief, "Chick", with a forced Axe, Abandon, Move +3, and Item / Throw Item, possibly a Mantle.  5 is "Meanae", a female Thief with two forced Spears, Izlude's Jump secondary, high Speed setup, Fly, Dragon Spirit.

All I've got for now, as far as decent-or-better ideas go.
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Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 3339] Logged
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  • [April 12, 2010, 12:33:06 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 12:33:06 AM »
Quote from: "philsov"
Hi-Ho boco! -- featuring 5x guest chocobos (with intentions to be ridden) against 5x mounted enemies on chocobos
But that makes 20! Max 16

<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 12, 2010, 01:15:10 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 01:15:10 AM »
I'm admittedly a bit...paranoid about giving ideas on this front. That said, I WOULD like to help in some capacity.

However, before I do anything, I must ask if it's necessary to try to aim for Chapters or locations for these battles?

(Deep Dungeon and a lot of other Chapter 3 [well, I guess the only Chapter 3 random location is, what, Yuguo?] or Chapter 4 only locations aside.)

Beautiful EDIT: For Beauty and the Beast, if we're adding side characters, then there totally needs to be a buffed Bomb for Lumiere. Not sure what you could make Cogsworth. A Time Mage with a Worker sprite?

Also, while seconding RavenofRazgriz's Chess ideas, I would say that depending on the chapter you wanted to use it in (or just plan using that Randomly Appears thing), you could easily make the Rooks Samurai with only Kikuichimoji instead of Monks with only Earth Slash. Both Knights obviously need to be forced to have Jump secondary.
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philsov [Posts: 4599] Logged
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  • [April 12, 2010, 02:40:17 PM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 02:40:17 PM »
Quote
I must ask if it's necessary to try to aim for Chapters or locations for these battles?

Completely unnecessary, but if your idea is more relevant to a certain time or location odds are it'll be there.  Like the chapter 1 revenge fight will be in an undead-friendly place.  Larger-epicer battles will be located for chapter 4 while more simple/fundament fights will be found sooner.

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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 12, 2010, 06:49:37 PM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 06:49:37 PM »
I just realized that I also had no idea what your job tree really looks like, though thankfully I also realized that it was in the original thread. With that said, I am still unsure of when you intend for specific Blue Magics to be available (or if you changed around some of the things that could teach them). For right now I'm just going to concern myself with Chapter 1 fights. (EDIT: How the hell did I leave out half of that sentence?)

Let's see:

  • Until You're Blue in the Face! OR Shaddup! - An early Lenalia Plateau with enemy Mediators (probably all have to be the same sex), perhaps an enemy monster or two (preferably not mountable) and then a Guest Blue Mage w/ Talk Skill secondary, Finger Guard (despite how useless it ends up being against Mediators outside of Mimic Daravon I guess) and maybe Train or Monster Talk.
  • Chance of Sandstorms? OR The Goggles Do Nothing! - An early Zeklaus Desert fight with Geomancers with Sandstorm and Oracles with Blind and generally evasive equips (if you could make it so that they could have evasive equipment without it getting outdated).
  • More Trouble from Gariland? OR We're Off to Kill the Wizards! - Probably the one of the earliest fights that should be available in the game, coming into Mandalia from the West. I should feature the same lead Squire from Gariland (I'm not sure if you can use the same surly special Portrait he had that I only just noticed that guy has last night) but with his team flipped to the magical side--which basically means a bunch of Wizards of varying sex (I guess two males and two females) and then a single female Priest. Hell, you could make the lead Squire Undead if you want, but that might be just a tad too early to be throwing it at people. *shrug*
  • The Wicked Witch of the Woods! OR Elphaba? - Thinking on it, you could perhaps have a single fight that tries to prepare newer players for ??? stat enemies as early as Chapter 1. Even in 1.3, I think the earliest a ??? enemy appears in a random is at Barius Hill with that damn Warlock that has (WAY) too much life. Since (female) Wizards are kind of squishy and the levels are kind of low, I can't imagine her HP would be too terrible, especially if you went out of your way to make it so. It would be funny if you gave her an aversion to Water in some capacity, even if it's just the Movement Float. Not really necessary, though. If you're not comfortable with ??? stats, then you could just make her a normal female Wizard with Yin-Yang Magic or Geomancy Secondary and then Ahriman attendants--I can't remember if her flying monkeys had names.

That's pretty much all I can think of and that's on the fly. I honestly haven't been thinking much about Chapter 1 that much since in my own patch that only thing I've touched with the ENTD at the moment are a bunch of Chapter 2 fights.

That and your monsters are way different from mine since yours are still rather close to their 1.3 incarnation AFAIK.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 01:04:00 AM by The Damned »
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2848] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 12:58:20 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 12:58:20 AM »
Another random idea:

"Protect the Neko!" - Allies are a Princess with Non-Charge using the Priest with Cat Ears sprite mounted on a ??? Red Panther who starts behind your team.  Enemies are a 9 unit mixed-Special class party, with a number of Dark Knights being their primary fighters.  Obviously this would require there to be room left for a sprite and the adjusted mounting thing to be done, but if it's possible this could be a cool fight.

That's it for now really, I figured I'd post it while it's in my head in case there's room left to implement it because of how lulzy it is.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1185] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 01:11:49 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 01:11:49 AM »
The Falconer Family (Zeklaus from Volcano):

Male Mediator x2
Female Knight
Female Archer
Juravis x2 (immortal)
Steel Hawk x2 (immortal)
Cockatrice x3 (immortal)

The humans are placed strategically and have monster skill.  One male mediator has equip armor.  The hawks start next to their human handlers.


Blue Magic Duel (Zirekile from Bethla):

Male Blue Mage
Chocobo x2 (immortal)
Black Chocobo x1 (immortal)
Red Chocobo x1 (immortal)
Female Blue Mage
Pisco Demon x1 (immortal)
Squidlarken x2 (immortal)
Mindflare x1 (immortal)

Obviously, the BMs and monsters are on different sides.  The Blue Mages should have monster skill.


Jousting Tourney (Mandalia from Igros Chapter 4):

Male Lancer 1
Red Chocobo 1
Male Lancer 2
Red Chocobo 2
Knights x7

Obviously, the lancers and chocobos are on different teams.  Lancers are triggered to only attack each other.  The knights are "security" guards on a third team with AI behaviors to only target your squad (I'm not sure if this can be done).


Against All Odds (Zeklaus Rare Battle):

1 Knight/Knight Blade/Arc Knight Type Zalbag
1 Behemoth
Sacred x9 with at least the leader having ??? stats

The knight rides the behemoth and is on your squad.  4 sacreds at levels above your squad and the knight surround the knight.  The other 5 sacreds start near the player.  For challenge's sake, you can have more ??? sacreds or immortal flagged sacreds.


Gladiator (A flat DD map, or the unused arena map)

Monk or Knight 1
Monk or Knight 2
Holy Swordsman x1
Lancer x8

The knights or monks should have forced equips (so they can be using non-class weapons without Equip X and whatnot).  There should exist some variety in what they can use.  Obviously, they fight as enemies.  Like the jousting toruney, they will only target each other while the HS and Lancers target your party (HS will have Barinten's sprite).


Defenders of the Pass (Germinas Peak)

Male Archer x4
Female Engineer x4
Female Assassin x3 OR Male Lancer x3

Idea is that the ranged units occupy the top of the hill and fire down.  Engineers can have guns or bows, though bows may be more useful here.  The Assassins are just meant to be fast units to clog choke points and attack or heal at range with throw (elemental absorption).  You could give them summon as well.  The lancers, of course, are meant to be choke point clog tanks (you can even set the AI to not move, though they'll act like idiots).

Just one more idea, though this one will require permission:
AI Tourney Squad (you take a winning squad from an AI tourney, assuming the items didn't change too much, and you fight it in ASM'd on a map that favors it the most)

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Dokurider [Posts: 2553] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 04:03:36 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 04:03:36 AM »
Returning from the depths of DD 13026 (or whatever version it was)...

The Reflect Bridgade

1x Wizard
1x Time Mage
1x Oracle
1x Summoner
1x Lancer*
1x Knight*
1x Squire*

*The reflectors, so they should be out in front.

All should have Always: Reflect. The AI as always been good with Reflect, so this battle lets it shine. Feel free to make it harder if need be.
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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 06:24:12 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 06:24:12 AM »
Uh...Dokurider. You realize that battles can only have 9 sprites max, right? So that usually means only four different types of opposing enemies (not counting pallettes swaps, which are usually monsters). Usually.

I mean, I guess it could work if you made some of the sprites the same just for this fight, but that might be a tad confusing since they're just generic classes instead of Whatever Knight.

(Although I do have to question why a Summoner or a Squire would be on that team. Well, I suppose a Summoner to heal through Reflect, but a Squire? As much as I think Squires need some appreciation, this doesn't seem to be the way to get it.)
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Dokurider [Posts: 2553] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 07:26:42 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 07:26:42 AM »
The Squire wass there for fast positioning, although maybe I'm giving the AI too much credit. Alright, let's revise a bit.

Reflect Brigade

6x Wizards with Time Magic, Ying Yang Magic or Summon Magic secondary

4x Knights

All units should have Always: Reflect, either innately or with an item.

There. How's that?
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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 07:38:31 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 07:38:31 AM »
Not that I'm philsov, but that seems completely fine.

It seems like the "bouncing" class should be have access to Reflect Mail innately so as to not have to waste space on Equip Armor on or a Reflect Ring necessarily.
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Dokurider [Posts: 2553] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 08:00:04 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 08:00:04 AM »
Well, I'm not trying to make the next Elmdor battle. After all, this setup has one big gaping weakness. If you equip reflect on all, this whole strategy falls apart.
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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 08:15:46 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 08:15:46 AM »
...How so?
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2848] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 08:43:32 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 08:43:32 AM »
If it's going to be generic classes, the "Reflect Brigade" should probably be something more like 4-5 Lancers with Reflect Mail and various Reflect-proof secondaries like Punch Art and Item, and 4-6 mages mixed between Wizard / Time Mage / Oracle in the back with Reflect Rings.

Using Lancers as the forward unit ensures that the primary Reflecting units are pretty durable, but also can stay varying ranges away from the player party due to the extra range allowed by both Spears and the Jump command.  This gives the AI the most freedom in placing the units to bounce spells off, which should maximize the effectiveness of the team.  The only flaw here may be when the Lancers are in the air off Jump, so an option could be to mix Lancers and Knights with Wizards and either Time Mages or Oracles.

Lancers just seem like they'd be more useful as the Reflector in this case since they can operate up to five panels away from the target while still outputting relevant damage and having a lot of HP.  Reflect team is cool and should be implemented in some way though, definitely.
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Dokurider [Posts: 2553] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 09:54:07 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 09:54:07 AM »
I was considering Lancers initially, but having Jump would be too much of a detraction. Rather, how about Knights with Faith Guns and/or Bows.
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2848] Logged
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  • [April 13, 2010, 10:08:47 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2010, 10:08:47 AM »
Quote from: "Dokurider"
I was considering Lancers initially, but having Jump would be too much of a detraction. Rather, how about Knights with Faith Guns and/or Bows.

That could work quite well, honestly.

Knights with set Faith and Faith Guns of various Elements + Mages seems like it'd be a cool fight.
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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 18, 2010, 07:58:34 AM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 07:58:34 AM »
Oh, philsov~

I finally just tried to download the color maps from GameFAQS that you recommended...and they don't work apparently.

Bloody WinRAR.

It'd be easier to try to think up fights if I could get the coordinates for things.
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philsov [Posts: 4599] Logged
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  • [April 18, 2010, 03:26:59 PM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 03:26:59 PM »
Buh?  Work fine for me.

Here, stick to zodiac's:

http://www.ffhacktics.com/maps.php

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The Damned [Posts: 1911] Logged
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  • [April 18, 2010, 09:57:36 PM]
Re: Random and DD battle suggestions
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 09:57:36 PM »
Perhaps my WinRAR is faulty. It could be one of the few instances where "You get what you pay for actually applies".

And, my, I'm a bloody imbecile for not realizing the maps were on the website's front page this entire. I really have go to the front page more.

Hmm...let's see. I'll have to look over those carefully (especially Finath, hehe).

Speaking of Finath, I forget if this was asked, but were you planning to try to use monsters more [outside of randoms]? Or was that someone else?

Regardless, there was one idea I just had because of the new abilities added:

  • The Doomsayers! OR Why Do We Keep Going Through Yuguo? - Basically, a fight where Death Sentence is the main threat for once (provided that the computer can actually use it well; if not, then this fight is a dumb idea) with there being 3 Undead Oracles, 2 Undead Time Mages and an Undead Mediator or two if need be. We already have Undead Oracles and I'm pretty certain Undead Time Mages already exist too. However, I don't think there's an Undead Mediator, so.... (The Mediators would mostly be there for Sleep via Mimic Daravon, but since your Oracles still have Sleep, perhaps that's unnecessary and you can just add an extra Oracle and/or Time Mage if you want.) For an alternate form of Sleep that isn't Faith-based, there's always Sleep Touch on whatever Ghost has it. [I would avoid using whichever Ghost has Zombie Touch.]

Shrug.

I'll try to start thinking of DD fights for you since I think I've got a lot of my mine down already.

Would you prefer generic teams for DD? Or (usually) singular Boss fights? I figure either or since I know you (also) don't like the current 1.3030 DD with teams of full of special characters and/or ??? stats.
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