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Items in ASMd  (Read 7180 times)
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [April 11, 2010, 09:46:05 PM]
Items in ASMd
« on: April 11, 2010, 09:46:05 PM »
The list is here!  Please review if you are interested.  If not, whatever, gtfo.  Or offer a random suggestion all the same :twisted:
Only item with initial or auto haste, Salty Rage, is also perma berserk
Perfumes redone slightly to not outshine everything
Shield/Mantle evasion significantly lowered to minimize evasion hax
+Sp / Move items kept to a minimum
Longbow/Ninja knives/daggers get a mild WP boost to compensate for loss of speed stat
Much of the armor is strikingly similar to the popular patch that shall not be named.

Also formatting is a complete bitch.  Text uploaded as attachment instead of reformatting the damned thing.

Edit:  To clarify on the flail, "Flailing flail" is a self-referencing 25% weapon strike proc (ie, triple/quadruple/etc procs are possible but extremely rare) that is also a new Basic Skill ability that requires a flail to be equipped to use.  Thus, using the ability with this weapon equipped is RNG funsies for the whole family.

Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [April 13, 2010, 06:09:53 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 06:09:53 AM »
Initial: Haste - is it too good in the scope of ASM'd and similar hacks for Excalibur and Setiemson?

I guess it depends on the duration of Haste, but for a few turns it may as well be Speed +4-5, resulting in a nice CT advantage.  

Thoughts?

(Most everything else was already covered in the original thread, so I can't think of much else to discuss that wasn't discussed already in detail besides maybe Perfumes.)
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [April 13, 2010, 06:28:01 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 06:28:01 AM »
If anything, having thought about it more, Initial: Haste might be "too weak" since the speed have been lowered across the board. It would still be useful, but I was actually under the impression that you had thought it not good enough for Excalibur, which is why you had wanted to get rid of it.

Initial: Haste shouldn't be OP or anywhere close to it in ASM'd.

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [April 13, 2010, 09:02:47 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 09:02:47 AM »
Quote from: "The Damned"
If anything, having thought about it more, Initial: Haste might be "too weak" since the speed have been lowered across the board. It would still be useful, but I was actually under the impression that you had thought it not good enough for Excalibur, which is why you had wanted to get rid of it.

Initial: Haste shouldn't be OP or anywhere close to it in ASM'd.

I suppose, but it's ultimately down to Haste's duration.  I don't remember it and philsov for some reason removed the exact listing of it from the main info thread.

If the duration is only results in about an extra turn or two before wearing off, it's fine I suppose, but too many more than that and there's a problem I think.

Speed reduction is only half the equation with Haste, since lower Speeds mean less the longer the duration is in clock ticks.

Either way, I'm more worried about the hard +1 Speed from H Bag probably needing to be changed and the need to probably redo Perfumes in general to an extent right now, since Initial: Haste seems like it's a borderline thing at worst.
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formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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  • [April 13, 2010, 09:21:35 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 09:21:35 AM »
Depends really on how he balanced spells.  If he balanced spells around max speed x 1.5, initial haste should be fine (remove with dispel magic if you really don't like it).  The +1 speed thing becomes more significant of a problem only because of how low maximum speeds have become, but it's female only with random damage and not usable with two swords or two hands, so it probably won't be that bad.

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The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [April 13, 2010, 09:40:03 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 09:40:03 AM »
Quote from: "formerdeathcorps"
Depends really on how he balanced spells.  If he balanced spells around max speed x 1.5, initial haste should be fine (remove with dispel magic if you really don't like it).  The +1 speed thing becomes more significant of a problem only because of how low maximum speeds have become, but it's female only with random damage and not usable with two swords or two hands, so it probably won't be that bad.

Bags, Perfumes, and Hair Adornments are Unisex in ASM'd, though I don't think that factors much into it.

The random damage and lack of Two Swords / Two Hands are the only things that make me think it *might* be okay to keep it, but like you said, low Speeds abound, so being able to stack more than a couple Speed points can be lethal.
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [April 14, 2010, 03:26:18 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 03:26:18 AM »
Initial: Haste seems like it'll be fine based on my experience with the AI using Yell so far.  Haste status doesn't last long enough to be ridiculously gamebreaking like it does in vanilla or 1.3.

That's not what I'm posting for, though.  I was going to post this in the beta download/report thread, but it seems more relevant here despite the fact it's centered around what I've drawn from the Chapter 1 beta so far.

I think Battle Boots should cost less, even if you end up making all Items/Equipment costing more in the end.  Even if everything else is made to cost more, the price on Battle Boots is just outrageous to the point of them being almost impossible to justify buying without doing a bunch of randoms even at current prices.  As much as I'm for raising prices to promote people inspecting random battles, there are very few available in Chapter 1, so I think at least that part of the game should be able to be done with only a few random battles as to not keep it feeling tedious from repeating the same fight over again.  I kind of want to say to slightly buff the prices on everything that's not Clothes / Leather Hat / Dagger / Broadsword, buff the prices on Items so they can't be spammed, and slash Battle Boots epically to about... 500 Gil?  I mean, hell, Small Mantle's only 300 Gil right now and it's arguably better than Battle Boots for the remainder of Chapter 1 once its available, and even if price bumped probably wouldn't be higher than 500-600 Gil.

That seems like it'd curve much better price-wise, personally.
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [April 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2010, 06:11:11 PM »
Haste lasts for 26 ticks in this patch, which is infact halfway between the vanilla value and 1.3, but that's a cool coincedence since 26 was derived from some math.

However since the top speed, if stacked, is probably going to be 12 (9 for most classes, at 99), the problem isn't nearly as severe, either.  The only way to gain speed points will be the head and accessory slots (woo sprint shoes), so anything in the weapon classes that boosted Sp will be modified to fit the paradigm.

Most of the spells are balanced around this figure, though in all honesty getting to level 99 by endgame will only occur if the player wills it.

But, yes, battle boots do need to be cheaper.

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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [April 16, 2010, 06:40:55 PM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 06:40:55 PM »
Good.

Quote from: "philsov"
However since the top speed, if stacked, is probably going to be 12 (9 for most classes, at 99), the problem isn't nearly as severe, either.  The only way to gain speed points will be the head and accessory slots (woo sprint shoes), so anything in the weapon classes that boosted Sp will be modified to fit the paradigm.

I think the only weapons that still boost Speed that weren't given at least one proposed solution are the H Bag and 1.3 version Nagrarok.

Handling Nagrarok shouldn't be too bad, but I've got nothin' for H Bag right now.
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [April 16, 2010, 07:16:43 PM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 07:16:43 PM »
Couldn't you just get rid of Battle Boots (and Power Wrist) completely?

That's what I'm doing for things that are either something too good early on (i.e. Battle Boots) and changing them would make them completely superfluous something later on (in this case, Spike Boots) or things that are already just superfluous without any reasonable way to change them (since turning Power Wrist into Guard Gauntlets won't work).

Just something to consider, especially since Ramza doesn't have to have Battle Boots.

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
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RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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  • [April 18, 2010, 05:35:53 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2010, 05:35:53 AM »
Quote from: "The Damned"
Couldn't you just get rid of Battle Boots (and Power Wrist) completely?

Well, replacing them with something would be nice.  It seems kind of odd to reduce the number of accessories in a patch trying to proliferate the number of viable equips over the course of the game.

Then again, the only thing I have for Battle Boots right now is PA +1, Jump +1, so eh.
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [April 18, 2010, 05:58:46 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2010, 05:58:46 AM »
Of course replace them with something.

I just meant that the something didn't have to be a different iteration of Battle Boots (or Power Wrist).

Hell, even when I planned to get rid of Perfumes entirely (and then decided against that), I was always planning on replacing them with other accessories. (If anything, we could use less weapon space and more accessory space, but that's a different matter.)

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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  • [April 18, 2010, 06:01:04 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2010, 06:01:04 AM »
In mine, I just made the power wrist add 15 P-EV and battle/spike boots only as an early item.

The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [April 18, 2010, 06:10:59 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2010, 06:10:59 AM »
I'm just replacing Power Wrist with a certain ring from a previous FF since I've pretty much been looking to FF history for a lot of my patch.

I hope this ring will actually see some use in my game, though I'm pretty sure there's already four battles where it could see some use, as opposed to the grand total of two that it got used in the other games, both of them being optional.

I'll shut up now.

But, yeah, like always I'm going to suggest FFCompendium as a resource. Accessories that have appeared throughout multiple games are under Armor.

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
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Dokurider [Posts: 2807]
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  • [June 09, 2010, 02:41:26 PM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2010, 02:41:26 PM »
viewtopic.php?p=113435#p113435

So...Ability Hack Requirement. You planning on incorporating this into ASM'D?
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [June 09, 2010, 10:36:41 PM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2010, 10:36:41 PM »
Quote from: "Dokurider"
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=113435#p113435

So...Ability Hack Requirement. You planning on incorporating this into ASM'D?

OMG, certainly.  Thank you for letting me know about this.

This will certainly enable full ability slot usage.  Further discussion to occur in the ability thread :)

Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [June 19, 2010, 01:08:41 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2010, 01:08:41 AM »
so... I finally got lazy and stuck some numbers down onto everything.  Updated title post to reflect this.  Feel free to view at your leisure.  Much is still open to discussion if you're inclined.

Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
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Dokurider [Posts: 2807]
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  • [June 19, 2010, 03:09:27 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2010, 03:09:27 AM »
I'll be honest, I don't get giving initial: Crystal to Jade Armlet. I think that it would-

Enemy Level - 26

You crafty bastard.
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [June 19, 2010, 03:19:43 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2010, 03:19:43 AM »
Enemy levels (and prices, for that matter) still need to be tweaked, the document is c/p from the BMG with all the other changes.  No way will enemies sport that :p

It's for ease of character transfer -- rather than bring a unit into a random, kill them, wait three rounds, and then have them MAYBE turn into a crystal for (another unit to absorb) is just a pain.

Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
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The Damned [Posts: 2168]
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  • [June 19, 2010, 04:03:26 AM]
Re: Items in ASMd
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2010, 04:03:26 AM »
Nice formatting. Perhaps I should do my test list that way since I finished it a month ago.

Regardless, I'll comment section by section since it's easier that way (in theory):

  • Daggers - Seem to be fine, though Dagger is missing its price and E. Lv., though the latter is obviously 1. Not sure how I feel about Platina Dagger causing Confusion, but I doubt it's overpowered.
  • Ninja Swords - Is the potential to Double Strike really necessary on something with the potential to have Two Swords? Other than that, seems fine. Nice to see you nerfed the Ninja Sword that causes Don't Act by taking away its evade and weakening its WP a bit. I think it would be fine if you weakened it even further by making lowering it down to Ninja Knife's level and making Ninja Edge that one that inflicts Don't Move.
  • Swords - Seems like nice attempts to balance Iron Sword and the elemental swords. From the way that Materia Blade is worded, is it not a one-of anymore? Or does "rare" just translate to one of a kind?
  • Knight Sword - Nothing much to say outside of Initial: Defend being appropriate for Defender, despite it being a tad weak....
  • Katana - Much, much better than original and 1.3 versions. Great idea to use the Ruin abilities for some of them.
  • Axes - Seems kind of backward to have Lava Ball be the proc on the highest Axe and Hell Ivy on the lowest, especially since you felt that Lava Ball was good enough to put it on the lowest level of Katana. Similarly, it seems kind of odd that evasion would increase with power when you're trying to make things more even and have done the reverse on other types of items thus far. Otherwise, yeah, axes are a pain in the ass.
  • Rods - Also much improved, though I'm not sure how I feel about the tier 2 spells being procs on rods even if Rods have pathetic physical power. I think I might have done the same thing, though....
  • Staves - Well, I'll be straight say that White Staff stills suck, even with the evasion increase. That weapon, though, is a pain in the ass to balance since you get it so soon after Staff becomes available anyway. Could you, I don't know, reduce the price to 400? There's no way it deserves to cost 800 Gil as it is, which is largely part of the reason it's always sucked. What did you cannibalize to make Holy Staff? I approve; I just wish to know. Otherwise, can we change the name of Mace of Zeus? It just bugs the hell out of me that something that's called a mace isn't a flail. I suggest Jupiter Staff or Zeus's Staff; the latter perhaps wins out because it sounds more like a euphemism and you know Zeus.
  • Hammers - So, the Flail can automatically do Flailing Flail by itself but Flailing Flail is also a separate Squire's technique that requires any Flail/Hammer?
  • Guns (both physical and magical) - Are guns. Are Romanda and Mythril Guns no longer available in Goug?
  • Crossbows - Is similarly Gastrafitis no longer available in stores? Because its E. Lv. is in parentheses and beats it crap out of all other crossbows yet again.
  • Longbows - I approve of these changes, though I'm surprised that the Ice Bow and the Windslash Bow don't have additional procs.
  • Instruments - Haven't changed at all, have they?
  • Books - Again, the Ruins as procs are an interesting choice. Not sure how I feel about them with regards to the books, but it's at least an inventive start without making them into the nukes they are in 1.3.
  • Spears - Hunh, seems kind of weird that +1 PA was the universal quality you choose for spears when you could just up their WP by 1 and have it be the same for the most part. May I ask why you did this? I also went with a universal property, but I figured the PA +1 was a bit too much with the other changes; here, perhaps ironically, it feels just a bit redundant.
  • Sticks - Haha, I see you just made Octagon Rod plain. That's better than it sucking. Otherwise not much more say other than we had similar ideas about what Whale Whisker's proc should be, though I believe I ultimately decided against Leviathan as it is since it was already strong enough.
  • Bags - Still really hate female-only equipment and Auto-Regen on 1H weapon is even worse IMO, but that might just be me.
  • Cloths - Hunh. Don't know why I didn't think of statuses for cloth prcs. Interesting....
  • Thrown Items - Did all three Shuriken get stronger?
  • Shields - I like the symmetry to on the elemental shields. Ice Shield is no longer markedly inferior to Flame Shield and it solves the Diamond Shield, Platina Shield and Crystal Shield.
  • Helmets - Cross Helm(et) having those procs is kind of...random. Otherwise, there's not much else to say.
  • Hats - Nice to see that Thief hat got nerfed. Other than that, I'm guessing you get the two new hats from Deep Dungeon.
  • Armor - Carabini Mail with Initial: Shell also seems odd, but it's better than Sp +1 and it's still markedly inferior to Auto-Reflect in most cases.
  • Clothes - Earth Clothes still seem a might powerful, but I believe you said earlier that you had no real interest in adding elemental attacks and there aren't really many Earth elemental attacks to begin with, so as long as Monks are getting rightly weakened.... Besides that, it's nice to see Black Costume is back to its non-fire absorbent self. I see you weakened Rubber Costume as necessary.
  • Robes - I kind of hate 1.3 Light Robe, but there's not much else to say.
  • Shoes - I approve of the changes. No real comments outside of saying that Rubber Shoes might still be on the weak side, but eh, Coral Sword and Lightning Bow got strengthened, so there's always that.
  • Gauntlets - Power Wrist blocking Silence seems kind of odd and pointless on something that gives physical attack. Blocking Poison and Oil might be good enough, but it's not like Silence-protection makes it "broken" or anything; it just seems out of place unless you're taking steps to make physical classes that aren't Geomancer not pathetic with magic.
  • Rings - I actually like what you've done with Cursed Ring. Heh. Interesting to see Angel Ring it's Blindness Protection back. (Or am I just imagining that it lost it?)
  • Armlets - The only things changed is Jade(d) Armlet, which I honestly don't see the point of. Please enlighten me/us. (EDIT: This was obviously typed before the above, though I'd be lying if I said that wasn't still confused. Is it supposed to be used on enemies or sacrificial allies?)
  • Mantles - So you decided to keep Small Mantle around and give it status protection? Not really sure how I feel about that, especially since it kind of obviates N-Kai Armlet. Same with Feather Mantle and Feather Boots (unless you made Float have a finite duration). Giving Elf Mantle initial Reflect also kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I can at least understand that.
  • Perfumes - Interesting attempts at balance. Isn't always Berserk kind of glitchy?

Nice to see things are coming along.

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
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