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need help at riovanes castle  (Read 849 times)
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Fighting Spirit
Barren [Posts: 1576] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 04:13:00 PM]
need help at riovanes castle
« on: April 04, 2010, 04:13:00 PM »
hi, I've made great progress in 1.3 but now I'm in a very difficult fight. I'm facing at least 6 hell knights and all of them are so freaking fast i can barely get turns in. I have the right equips to negate some of their untruth skills but a lot of my party is too slow to really put the hurt on them. if anyone can give me advice on how to beat them , that will help alot. Thanks  :)

He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat
Archael Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 05:01:43 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 05:01:43 PM »
hamedo

defense up

charm

high hp units

evasion

don't try to out-ninja them, cuz you will fail
Augestein [Posts: 57] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 05:08:42 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 05:08:42 PM »
Just some general ideas...

- The easiest way is to bring a mixed gender party in and charm one or two of them, and let all Hell (no pun intended) break lose.

- Counter Magic or Damage Split will go a long way in this battle, as if the HK doesn't kill you want your low faith/high brave character Counter Magics and hits them 1 or 2 times, they are dead. Either that, or you could bring some high faith people with Hamedo in. With high faith, they are less likely to attempt to hit you with their magic and melee you which will only lead them to their own demise.

- If that doesn't work, status effects that execute immediately are useful. This comes from people like Short Charged oracles and Mediators can help with this. Most noticeably sleep, as the enemies cannot wake them up without one-rounding them (unless one of them knows Elemental as a secondary).

- If you can, target item users first as they are annoying (as always). As a matter of fact, putting them in a status effect that stops them from fighting is highly useful.

- Abandon actually works to help dodge Untruth because it's considered "magic" IIRC. I know you can definitely guard them. Better than praying you don't get hit I suppose.

- Also, do you have any thief hats? Those might be useful in that battle. After all, extra hp really doesn't matter if you are dying before you get to do anything... Carbani armor also raises speed by one, so if you have some equip armor floating around with that, THAT could help as well. You may not beat them in speed, but you won't get doubled if you are.

- Finally, bring and extra revival guy. If you normally use 2, take 3 this time. If all 5 of them are using it, then this is a problem too, as you need something that can cripple them more than prevent yourself from dying.

Oh yeah, and letting Rafa die seems to be a good idea, as it at least gets rid of Malak, and considering how unreliable Rafa is in the battle, losing Malak on the field is more of a godsend than having Rafa there.
Squidgy [Posts: 213] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 05:58:32 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2010, 05:58:32 PM »
Nameless Dance (assuming you can pull one or two off before she dies) will do it. Some Talk Skill to stall until those go off, and Golem is always worthwhile.

I'd also recommend targeting item users last, since they seem more apt to Elixir themselves than others. If they can Phoenix Down another unit... who'll spend a turn running away... it's lots of turns wasted on their side.

I forget what reaction I was using at this battle. Personally, I avoid Hamedo 'cause it's just a lame way to win. Probably Abandons/HP Restores, definitely MP Switch on one.
The old (un)wise bastard
Dome [Posts: 4741] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 06:35:39 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 06:35:39 PM »
Auto-potion + elf mantle + aegis shield
Charm
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 06:42:51 PM by Dome »
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2939] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 06:37:58 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 06:37:58 PM »
I find the best way to win this fight is to not overthink it.

None of the enemies are immortal flagged or anything of the like, so status works.  Evasion technically works, but Hell Knights can perform so many attacks they ARE going to hit you unless you reset like a whore until perfection occurs.  They dish out lots of speed and damage, but unless your level is really high their HP should still be reasonable enough to kill them in one or two high-power hits.

I found the best way to win this fight was to be very aggressive.  You can't outspeed them in most cases, so focus on raw power.  If you use a Ninja, use a Martial Arts variant with max PA, etc.  I just hit one or two of them with a Mimic Daravon on the first turn (and missed almost every Talk Skill after that until I was down to one enemy and stealing all his items) and aggro'd out the rest with Martial Arts Ninja, Two Hands Lancer, high power Draw Outs, etc.  I actually got the fight on my first try with that setup (only having attempted it once before that), and the luck was really middling between teams if I remember right, so you don't really need to get "lucky" with an aggressive strategy, unlike some others.  Your enemy can still be hit hard enough to make die because they don't have boss innates.  Your enemy can still be status'd.  Your enemy can still be made into Crystals and Chests if the counter runs out.  Etc.

Yes, they have a lot of speed.  Yes, they can hit you really fucking hard.  Yes, they will probably rape you your first time through the fight, and possibly times after that.  That doesn't mean uber setup is needed though.  Just focus on the things your setup can do equal to or better than them (raw damage, status, higher HP, evasion if things REALLY aren't panning out well for you) and keep a clear head.  Outside the ones near Ramza, their first turn can only be Untruth Skills, and a good PBF can really minimize what damage those do even if they get lucky, meaning their first turn on that half of the map can easily be chalked up to "coming into your kill range".

Maybe it's just me, but I find this fight to be rather overrated unless you're doing a Level 1 run (which is its own can of worms) or are some really high level where Hell Knight growths really begin to rape you.   It's a really dangerous enemy team, sure, but none of my experiences with it really make me want to chalk it up to "specialize or die".  Good planning and playing to what strengths your team can have over them on a basic level has always been enough for me with this fight.  Let them go first, be ready for it, then hit them with debilitating statuses like Charm/Sleep/etc and hit them like a truck.  They WILL die.
Archael Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 06:40:18 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 06:40:18 PM »
their HP is very very low too
The old (un)wise bastard
Dome [Posts: 4741] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 06:41:10 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 06:41:10 PM »

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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2939] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 07:10:11 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 07:10:11 PM »
Quote from: "Archael"
their HP is very very low too

That too.

Dome, I see your videos and raise you my own fumbling through it with raw power and a single successful Mimic Daravon (sans once I've begun stealing proper).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7AJHCuTw4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVeWGmXJoPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbMHb1xJOY


Part 3 is literally just me stealing shit, though.  I'd already "won" the fight somewhere in part 2.
The old (un)wise bastard
Dome [Posts: 4741] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 07:18:03 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 07:18:03 PM »
Quote from: "RavenOfRazgriz"
Quote from: "Archael"
their HP is very very low too

That too.
...
Dome, I see your videos and raise you my own fumbling through it with raw power and a single successful Mimic Daravon (sans once I've begun stealing proper)
You know, I prefer to use defensive strategy, but they are not the only way to win
For example, in the Deep Dungeon, I had to use a very aggressive strategy against the 2 impure dragons in order to win
But, even when I use offensive strategy and set-up, I select "Items" on everyone as secondary
I HATE when someone can't resurrect the others

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Some are big, some are small
Some are real, some are fake
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RavenOfRazgriz (Global Moderator) [Posts: 2939] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 09:31:29 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 09:31:29 PM »
Quote from: "Dome"
Quote from: "RavenOfRazgriz"
Quote from: "Archael"
their HP is very very low too

That too.
...
Dome, I see your videos and raise you my own fumbling through it with raw power and a single successful Mimic Daravon (sans once I've begun stealing proper)
You know, I prefer to use defensive strategy, but they are not the only way to win
For example, in the Deep Dungeon, I had to use a very aggressive strategy against the 2 impure dragons in order to win
But, even when I use offensive strategy and set-up, I select "Items" on everyone as secondary
I HATE when someone can't resurrect the others

I could've made Ramza a Samurai with Item, and probably stuck with a Two Swords Thief with Item and Ninja Swords looking back, but eh.  I just kinda analyzed my first run of that fight and tossed crap onto people that seemed like a good idea and just played it out.  Then again, that's how I played most of 1.3, vaguely modified versions of the same basic setup to handle tough situations and just playing my way out of bullshit because I felt the amount of battles people thought required uber-specialized setups to beat were vastly overhyped.  

I used Item or White Magic a lot too, but even with those I found being aggressive was better, usually reviving something for the sake of getting an immediate donkeypunch on something for the KO and then spending my free turns dropping Holy / using the other skillset for damage.  For all the defensive setups I've seen people like for 1.3, I just find an aggressive setup to usually be outright better if you're doing it right since you don't need to worry about evasion percentages, etc.

Colliery, end game random battles, etc. way later do lend themselves to some more defensive setups though, but that's mostly because they can oneshot your aggressive guys, you can't oneshot back due to boss innates or similar, and you're taking out more than a single target.
Fighting Spirit
Barren [Posts: 1576] Logged
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  • [April 04, 2010, 09:41:15 PM]
Re: need help at riovanes castle
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 09:41:15 PM »
Quote from: "Archael"
hamedo

defense up

charm

high hp units

evasion

don't try to out-ninja them, cuz you will fail
thankfully i didn't really have to out-ninja them. I basically had two thieves one male one female with charm along with equip shield and mantle then mediator and knight with P bags for regen and status. worked like a charm. thanks Arch

He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat
Winner of the 2nd 1.3 AI Tournament
PX_Timefordeath [Posts: 1781] Logged
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  • [April 05, 2010, 03:01:44 PM]
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