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LastingDawn [Posts: 3404] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 09:40:30 PM]
Cantor Job Discussion Thread (Rad/Ramza Skillset Update!)
« on: December 06, 2008, 09:40:30 PM »
August 22nd, 2010

This has been Long in the coming and I do apologize for how long it took for this.

Cantor, those who command the Voice of Heaven

Cantor's are basically singers who use Hymns to bring benefit to their party. Their skills are varied from their White Mage Predecessor's and their abilities hold unique points away from the other job classes.

This set up is All thanks to Philsov with a bit of help from Mav! Each skillset is meant to work well with one another as well as compensating for what is missing in another. I think Philsov and Mav have done a great job splitting these! But let me know your thoughts on this arrangement as well.





Quote
Cantor - Voice of Heaven.  Ramza and Rad given a good split on abilities, then gain a Cure-like spell each (Ramza with healing voice got an AoE, Rad got the opposite).  And I know you're going more for the vocal angle here, and I went more with the priesty angle, so feel free to change the names.  I like the abilities themselves though, nevermind the awesome bias.

Iconics:
Hymn of Life = Range self, AoE 1.  Revives!
Throe of Rebirth = single target, light CT, light MP.  Inflicts Reraise but harms unit for 25%.  Ally/self only.
(Mighty Prayer)

Ramza:
Healing Voice - 40% healing to a nearby target, triggering prayer status.  Instant.
Tumultuous Bellow - Range 0, AoE 1.  Success = 50% + MA;  Inflicts Berserk around the caster
Lethargic Psalm - Heals 65%, inflicts sleep and slow.  Very high success rate, ally only.
Anoint - Heals CFa * TFA * MA * 20;  range 4, AoE 1, moderate CT and MP.
Repent - Strips target of Innocent or Shell status, dealing 20% HP damage in the process.  
Sonnet to Faram - self-only, moderate CT, MP.  Success = ((CFa/100)^2) * (160+MA)) -- protect/shell/regen/faith

Rad:
Healing Breath - 20% healing for a large area, triggering prayer status.  Instant.
Insane Chant - Range 2, AoE 0.  Success = 40% + MA.  Light PA-based damage plus confusion infliction
Aria of Peace - Dispels Berserk and heals target for 25%.  Success = PA+125%.  
Bless - Heals CFa * TFa * MA * 25; range 4, AoE 0.  moderate CT and MP.
Penance - Inflicts Addle.  Success = MA + 60%, Range 2, AoE 0, instant, no MP.
Coronach to Lucavi - Formula (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 6) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm 6; Single Enemy - Berserk/Blind/Poison/Innocent (All)
---------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 11:33:27 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Archael Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 09:50:45 PM]
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2008, 09:50:45 PM »
So basically a Priest, but more useful?

good
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
Dormin Jake [Posts: 409] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:11:11 PM]
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2008, 10:11:11 PM »
It's a priest that can melt faces.  I like!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dormin Jake »
We are Dormin. Thou art to bring us a tasty beverage.
Archael Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:23:54 PM]
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2008, 10:23:54 PM »
Quote from: "Dormin Jake"
It's a priest that can melt faces.  I like!


I like the whole WOW idea of a priest that can also control dark powers

I hate WOW

but the idea would work in this case IMO TBH AFAIK IIRC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
Archael Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:25:48 PM]
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2008, 10:25:48 PM »
Hymn of Life should have a new art besides Raise

Raise art is old and tired

1.3 has Spirit of Life on trees for rezzing

looks damn good

check it out

Art makes a big part of the appeal of the skill

YES
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
DarthPaul [Posts: 5381] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:27:55 PM]
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2008, 10:27:55 PM »
Hmmm similar to a mediator/bard but much cooler and more balanced.....me like.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by darthpaul »
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die
boomkick Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:29:37 PM]
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2008, 10:29:37 PM »
Yea! my ideas were used :), or most of them.

Thanks LD!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
DarthPaul [Posts: 5381] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:31:12 PM]
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2008, 10:31:12 PM »
I think you should put in a Hymn of Resurrection that bring the unit back at 100% but has undead/vampire.


EDIT: to fit the zombire thing call it the Dirge of Resurrection.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by darthpaul »
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die
Archael Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:33:24 PM]
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2008, 10:33:24 PM »
Quote from: "darthpaul"
I think you should put in a Hymn of Resurrection that bring the unit back at 100% but has undead/vampire.


EDIT: to fit the zombire thing call it the Dirge of Resurrection.


HOLY SHIT

best idea ever? I think so
wow
dude

amazing idea

a strong spell with a trade off
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
DarthPaul [Posts: 5381] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:34:44 PM]
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2008, 10:34:44 PM »
I try.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by darthpaul »
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die
Skip Sandwich [Posts: 994] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:39:42 PM]
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2008, 10:39:42 PM »
isn't it not possible to both cancel and inflict a status at the same time though?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:43:08 PM by Skip Sandwich »
“Dave?  Are you there?”
“Yeah.  I can’t get you through the cell now.”
“You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I’m sorry. I didn’t know it would do that.”
http://www.johndiesattheend.com
Archael Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:41:47 PM]
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2008, 10:41:47 PM »
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
isn't it not possible to both cancel and inflict a status at the same time though?


yep

this is the unfortunate truth
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
Archael Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 10:42:09 PM]
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2008, 10:42:09 PM »
unless you ASM edit formula 02

but LD needs it for other stuff

so no go on this
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
boomkick Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 11:04:08 PM]
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 11:04:08 PM »
I know you guys got some ideas for cantor, bring them up!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
DarthPaul [Posts: 5381] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 11:13:10 PM]
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2008, 11:13:10 PM »
Dirge of Desecration - Hits all units on the map except caster for low level dark damage and random status effect. Medium Low CT and of course singing animation.


Updated!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 11:32:55 PM by darthpaul »
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die
Skip Sandwich [Posts: 994] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 11:18:17 PM]
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2008, 11:18:17 PM »
Is Martyr not on that list becuase its a 'secret' skill or because the final details haven't been decided on yet? In any case, I came up with an idea for a secret skill that I thought i'd share anyway, if only because it has a cool name.

Babel Voice (Ancient Hymn, Babel Hymn, Hymn of Babel, Hymn of Ruin)- Secret hymn written in an ancient magical lauguage that blasts friend and foe alike with almighty power. Attempts to reduce everyone on the battlefield to 1hp.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Skip Sandwich »
“Dave?  Are you there?”
“Yeah.  I can’t get you through the cell now.”
“You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I’m sorry. I didn’t know it would do that.”
http://www.johndiesattheend.com
Unreliable as a Mime.
The Damned [Posts: 2006] Logged
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  • [December 06, 2008, 11:43:28 PM]
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2008, 11:43:28 PM »
^ Bro~ken. [/singsong.]


As for the initial list, I have to admit that I'm only liking half of the ideas. I'll explain why--I'll try to be concise for once:


  • Hymn of Encouragement: Heavily intrudes upon Time Mage's territory when Time Mage needs all the help it can get and Priest is already useful.* I say thee nay.
  • Hymn of Death: Just seems out of place, really. I could maybe see Death Sentence if this were a higher type of Priest, but even then that wouldn't really be a generic class.
  • Repetitive Hymn: Just seems really out of place, even moreso than the above. From the name (yes, I know names are tentative, still) to the status that it attempts to inflict, it's just...not meshing for me. That said, I could see Berserk saying as something of a Cantor thing, but that's only because Berserk is a relatively "neutral" status.
  • Hymn of Faram: I'll put this bluntly: Hell no. We really don't need the problem of Holy** popping up once again when we can just get rid of it. I may be overreacting because of the "very high" damage description.
  • Hymn of Lucavi: Similarly, I also reject this because I think that Cantor should simply have no business having damage options, much less broad damage options. One or two selective detrimental attacks, sure, but I don't want them doing moderate damage to anything that isn't already Undead personally.


Speaking of which, I will present an idea that I'm going to be using for Bard--am I the only person that's keeping that class in a make-over patch? it sure seems like it--my patch currently. (Oh noes! Spoilers! Snape kills Dumboldore!)

I'm going to tweak this idea a bit because I'm not sure what changes you've made to status in your patch, if any, whereas I've already changed a lot of things, so I'm pretty sure one of the things I wanted won't work in your patch at the moment:


Requiem OR Hymn for/of the Dead: A song that only affects the Undead, it attempts to put them to rest for good and allow them to finally move on. (Only affects Undead, meaning it has to use formula 40 and can't do damage like how Requiem in FFV did damage--it still annoys me that this is the only Undead-affecting formula, but I digress. Attempts to Randomly Add Sleep, Don't Act, Don't Move, Stop to Undead. Perhaps it can even add Dead, though only if it becomes Single Target at that point.)


Other than that, the only other thing I can suggest--I'm currently distracted by getting rready for work, so forgive me--is that Esuna seems to be missing for some reason:


Hymn of Forgiveness (I can't spell Contritrion right now): A single-target, highly-accurate Esuna-song. Easy.


P.S. Are you going to be using the song-animation for some of these, LastingDawn? I'm assuming you're going to be giving all the Hymn's Persevere at least, no?

*Lol, I know this isn't the place to talk about it, but I think you mispelled "Bard" in your first post Archael7. Priests have ALWAYS been useful. In fact, they've been a litte bit too useful, only outpaced by Chemist, Monks and Ninja in my eyes.

**The problem with Holy (IMO, though I shouldn't need to say that) is that not only does it outpace Flare for some reason, I guess because it's "elemental", but it also inflicts damage, that can be easily strengthen, versus an elemental that wasn't really defended against by anything (the AI would use) in vanilla. Between Holy and curative spells, Short Charge also made Holy a lot better than what Black Magic had to offer, especially since Black Mage was already outpaced by Summon Magic.
LastingDawn [Posts: 3404] Logged
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  • [December 07, 2008, 12:43:49 AM]
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2008, 12:43:49 AM »
Those are pretty good reasons of why they should be abolished, but I liked the thought of using Faram and Lucavi, (since the parts they play in Mercenaries is Far from substantial) Though the problem with those two ideas... I don't want this fellow to hit across the field, makes too much trouble, for the AI to use right, as well it is a flawed concept, to allow such, even if it be lower power. The other idea... is just Too good, while a very interesting concept, I don't think there's a way to stop it from killing even bosses in two blows with that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Unreliable as a Mime.
The Damned [Posts: 2006] Logged
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  • [December 07, 2008, 06:44:28 AM]
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2008, 06:44:28 AM »
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
The other idea... is just Too good, while a very interesting concept, I don't think there's a way to stop it from killing even bosses in two blows with that.


Well, you could just make all (the important) bosses immune to Holy (or whatever elemental), but yeah, I agree obviously.

Anyway, I'm back from work and I have one last suggestion. This is also taken from my own patch since we're both getting rid of Items (or at least trying to, stupid stubborn Chemist):


Hymn of Salvation: A song is sung to save the soul of an otherwise accursed being. (Not an in-game description please.) (Attempts to Cancel Death Sentence, Undead, Blood Suck, Confusion and Berserk on a single target. Basically another Esuna, but for a lot of the more esoteric stuff that Esuna doesn't heal.)


P.S. Are we just suggesting Active Abilities? I ask because thus far, I can't remember knowing any of the R/S/M abilities for any class.
LastingDawn [Posts: 3404] Logged
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  • [December 07, 2008, 05:20:37 PM]
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2008, 05:20:37 PM »
Here's my thoughts on their skills, what if we make Cantor's more intune with Minwu from FF2? He could equip Shields, Swords, and Staves if I recall... also, what I was thinking for his healing spells, though they are songs, they could be % Based, now the only formula that does that is Heal_Y% PA + X%. This will allow some leverage and leeway for healing as well as entertaining a physical side to the Cantor.

But as for only Active Abilities, indeed. Since we really can't do a lot with Reaction abilities, other then change the order in which they are presented.

EDIT: Hmm... I didn't think of that, but it Could work... since they are songs sung, it would make proper sense for such, at least for a few of them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
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