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mav [Posts: 2610]
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  • [August 06, 2009, 08:13:53 PM]
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2009, 08:13:53 PM »
Gorgeous sprite man. The portrait needs to look more unique though: give him the Stephen Colbert eyebrow (or some other shifty equivalent) and flip his smile. Maybe you could mess his hair up too. I dunno, he does look like a Gambler, but more like a 20 year old male playing the part of a Gambler.

EDIT: I've attached a somewhat crude example of what I mean.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by mav »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [August 06, 2009, 09:00:35 PM]
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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2009, 09:00:35 PM »
Hmm, that smile looks far too honest, the eyebrows are on the right track though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
mav [Posts: 2610]
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  • [August 06, 2009, 10:56:15 PM]
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« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2009, 10:56:15 PM »
Yeah, I dunno how to make him look a bit sneakier, but I've attached another copy with a slightly updated look.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by mav »
Archael
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  • [August 06, 2009, 10:59:40 PM]
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2009, 10:59:40 PM »
AWESOME male gambler sprite, I love progress so far

Gambler's skills are nice to use, but I suggest increasing the possible benefit of RNG based skills

Dart is very balanced and useful

Roulette could also use some tweaking

good class
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
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MiKeMiTchi [Posts: 1947]
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  • [August 07, 2009, 12:35:27 AM]
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2009, 12:35:27 AM »
Thanks for editing the portrait mav!
It looks better. :)

Quote
Gambler's skills are nice to use, but I suggest increasing the possible benefit of RNG based skills


Do the weapons (decks?) equipped by the gambler,.. range types?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by MiKeMiTchi »
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi
mav [Posts: 2610]
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  • [August 07, 2009, 04:29:24 AM]
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2009, 04:29:24 AM »
Quote from: "MiKeMiTchi"
Thanks for editing the portrait mav!
It looks better. :?) colors...

The sprite looks fantastic though. Great job!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by mav »
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MiKeMiTchi [Posts: 1947]
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  • [August 07, 2009, 05:17:01 AM]
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2009, 05:17:01 AM »
Quote
I think he's asking if the decks are ranged weapons, which they are not, they are 2-panel melee weapons, like spears, since they're based on the old dancer's silks


Yes, this answers my question. Thanks.

I'll continue working on the sprite. :)
--



Should we make 'Dice Blow' to a RNG-area skill?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by MiKeMiTchi »
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Keith Kuruzu
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  • [November 20, 2009, 06:26:57 AM]
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2009, 06:26:57 AM »
Not to nitpick but after looking at the different sprite palletes for the Male Gambler, I was thinking maybe coloring one of them so that his outfit colors match that of Setzer Gabbiani from FF6.  You know, for that kind of subtle throwback to the past FFs.

Just a suggestion.  If it's not possible, that's OK but if it is, I don't see why it shouldn't be done.

Also, I don't think it's been addressed yet but how many different decks of cards will the Gambler have at his/her disposal?  It looks like you're using the Dancer's Cloth weapons as the base for the Gambler's cards but depending on how early the Gambler can be unlocked, I'd say three different decks of cards won't be enough.

You've already got Loaded Deck (since I played the Monster Battle Test Demo, hee hee) and I'd assume that good ol' regular Deck of Cards would be the first available deck of cards for the Gambler.  How about 3 more decks to give the Gambler a bit of versatility?

Deck of Cards
- ATK: 8
- Weapon Evade %: 0
- Inflict:  Darkness, Addle, Poison, Confuse

Loaded Deck
- ATK: 10
- Weapon Evade %: 0
- Inflict:  Darkness, Addle, Poison, Confuse, Berserk, Don't Move, Don't Act

Yeah, this was what Ramza had in the recently released Monster Battle Demo savestate and I like!  I'm just putting it up for completion sake and to know if it's capable of inflicting more statuses than those that I've seen so far?  Right now, I'm going to assume that all of the different decks of cards, unless otherwise noted, can inflict differing status and each subsequent will just build upon those statuses.  :|

Storm of Sevens
- ATK: 7
- Weapon Evade %: 7
- Inflict:  None
- Should be a Rare Weapon

The Storm of Sevens will be just what it's named after.  It will either inflict 7 HP damage, 77 HP damage, or 777 HP damage!  I'm not sure if it's possible to do this but if it is, it'll be totally awesome!!  Oh and yeah, might as well give it some kind of Weapon Evade too so it also gets a 7 in that department.


What do you all think?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Keith Kuruzu »
Wasabi [Posts: 187]
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  • [November 20, 2009, 09:41:19 AM]
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2009, 09:41:19 AM »
"Tetra Master" and "Storm of Sevens" are impossible to pull off. There are no existing formulas that will randomly trigger any one of the 8 elements, nor one that deals an exact, set amount of HP such as 7, 77, or 777.

"Triple Triad" is doable, but it must be said that the crossbow formula detailed in 1.3 can actually trigger 2+ times without an effect displayed after the first proc. So, it'll be a highly abusable item with that type of formula (even if the possibilities of triggering 4-6 shots are unlikely, it doesn't mean it's impossible.). I would suggest the item only procs once, and call it "Twin Stars" but that name might come off as a bit cheesy for a deck of cards. :P

And should "Deck of Cards" inflict [random] status? I just find it odd that the basic tier of a weapon type would have an overpowering quality to it. I'm sure it's been balanced, but I'd like to make it clear that the Addle, Confuse and possibly Poison statuses are very abusable. I'm not sure about "Loaded Deck" but I feel that its use is overpowering as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Wasabi »
Keith Kuruzu
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  • [November 20, 2009, 06:25:30 PM]
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« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2009, 06:25:30 PM »
Well, I guess you're right about the Deck of Cards being too basic of a weapon to warrant the need to inflict status effects, especially since the tinkering around of how the various status effects will work aren't completely set in stone.

However, the Loaded Deck idea is, for now at least, fact.  It's been showcased in the monster battle demo savestate and those are a majority of the status effects it can inflict (though I don't think it can cause Don't Act, Confuse, and Poison; I just added those in).  We'd need further clarification from LD on what the final verdict for it will be.

Since Triple Triad can, in essence, be a really broken weapon, and since Tetra Master's effect can't be done at all, how much broken can those items be if they can only inflicted multiple element damage instead (in the case of Triple Triad, it'll only hit once but for 3 elements and for Tetra Master, once for four elements)?  I know it can done but you could just make Triple Triad and Tetra Master one-time only Rare Weapons to limit its power (like, say, making them Artifact weapons or something?).

I got nothing else for Storm of Sevens.  I only wanted to use that name somewhere since it sounded so cool but you could have obtained it from an existing FFT proposition involving Setzer (I believe the second Wandering Gambler job). :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Keith Kuruzu »
Wasabi [Posts: 187]
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  • [November 21, 2009, 01:21:14 AM]
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2009, 01:21:14 AM »
Well, in regards to elemental properties set on a weapon, it's possible to have the weapon have an innate elemental property and not have it overpowered, since elemental "boosts" can only stack once (ie. A sword with properties of fire/wind/ice equipped with Kaiser Shield from vanilla will only have a single damage boost instead of 3x). "Tetra Master" can easily work with this in mind.

And something I failed to mention: it is possible to have a weapon proc with a variety of spells, but it can only be limited to three. Such as the elemental guns straight from vanilla. It's just that the appropriate 3-tier spells of either fire, ice or lightning needs to be changed to suit the appropriate skills/spells to make it happen. However, making 8 elemental spells/skills proc for __% within a weapon is impossible. I apologize if I didn't clarify about this.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Wasabi »
Keith Kuruzu
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  • [November 21, 2009, 06:55:20 AM]
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« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2009, 06:55:20 AM »
Oh, I get it.  I already understood about the one-time boost for the multi-elemental aspect of weapons.  I mean, if a weapon with 3 elements can get a 3x boost from a Kaiser Shield, that would be REALLY broken.  However, thank you very much for clarifying the Elemental Gun formula.  Since you mentioned it, Triple Triad and Tetra Master can be changed to this instead...


Triple Triad
- ATK: 9
- Weapon Evade %: 0
- Cast:  Melt, Tornado, or Quake upon use
- Should be a Rare Weapon, maybe a One-Time Only Artefact?

I'm guessing that that first spell in line would have a higher trigger rate than the last one on the list.  I forget which is the stronger spell out of all three but it should go in ascending order of strength.  Making it a one-time only Artefact weapon can limit its power if necessary but I don't believe this is an especially broken weapon, considering Gamblers will be more PA than MA-based, even amongst female Gamblers.  Also, Melt/Tornado/Quake should only affect the targeted unit and no one else.  This way, shooting off Melt/Tornado/Quake every time you attack with Triple Triad doesn't mean a free multi-target spell whenever you wish.

...Of course, because Melt/Tornado/Quake effects a wide radius, that power in and off itself could be used to limit the weapon's effectiveness, especially since it doesn't discriminate between friend or foe and since the Card type of weapon only has a target radius of 2 in any cardinal direction.  Heck, you can even make it so the user of the weapon STILL takes damage from Melt/Tornado/Quake to make the weapon fit even more with the reckless dogma of a Gambler.  With a lowered ATK value, the damage won't ever really be more than a widespread nuisance but too many activations and the damage can start piling on.


Tetra Master
- ATK: 10
- Weapon Evade %: 0
- Element:  Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Wind, Water, Dark, Holy
- Should be a Rare Weapon

Originally, it was going to inflict random elemental damage per hit but since that's impossible to do, let's just go with the darn thing being able to inflict all elemental damage per throw.  I don't believe it should be limited to being a once-per-game only weapon since enemies need only be protected from one element for the weapon to lose its effectiveness, right?  Or am I thinking of the wrong FF here?  Normally, for a weapon that can inflict all element damage per swing, if any one element is protected against, the whole shebang is compromised, right?  Or does that not apply to Tactics?  I'm not sure since the original Vanilla version never had anything like that in it.

Am I getting everything right or am I still not getting it all?  :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Keith Kuruzu »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [November 21, 2009, 09:00:38 PM]
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« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2009, 09:00:38 PM »
Quote from: "Keith Kuruzu"
Oh, I get it.  I already understood about the one-time boost for the multi-elemental aspect of weapons.  I mean, if a weapon with 3 elements can get a 3x boost from a Kaiser Shield, that would be REALLY broken.  However, thank you very much for clarifying the Elemental Gun formula.  Since you mentioned it, Triple Triad and Tetra Master can be changed to this instead...


Triple Triad
- ATK: 9
- Weapon Evade %: 0
- Cast:  Melt, Tornado, or Quake upon use
- Should be a Rare Weapon, maybe a One-Time Only Artefact?

I'm guessing that that first spell in line would have a higher trigger rate than the last one on the list.  I forget which is the stronger spell out of all three but it should go in ascending order of strength.  Making it a one-time only Artefact weapon can limit its power if necessary but I don't believe this is an especially broken weapon, considering Gamblers will be more PA than MA-based, even amongst female Gamblers.  Also, Melt/Tornado/Quake should only affect the targeted unit and no one else.  This way, shooting off Melt/Tornado/Quake every time you attack with Triple Triad doesn't mean a free multi-target spell whenever you wish.

...Of course, because Melt/Tornado/Quake effects a wide radius, that power in and off itself could be used to limit the weapon's effectiveness, especially since it doesn't discriminate between friend or foe and since the Card type of weapon only has a target radius of 2 in any cardinal direction.  Heck, you can even make it so the user of the weapon STILL takes damage from Melt/Tornado/Quake to make the weapon fit even more with the reckless dogma of a Gambler.  With a lowered ATK value, the damage won't ever really be more than a widespread nuisance but too many activations and the damage can start piling on.

Unfortunately with Formula 2, it's not possible to have more then one spell as the add-on to the weapon, as well Formula 2 will Only strike the single panel the weapon struck, regardless of the range and effect area of the actual effect.



Quote
Tetra Master
- ATK: 10
- Weapon Evade %: 0
- Element:  Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Wind, Water, Dark, Holy
- Should be a Rare Weapon

Originally, it was going to inflict random elemental damage per hit but since that's impossible to do, let's just go with the darn thing being able to inflict all elemental damage per throw.  I don't believe it should be limited to being a once-per-game only weapon since enemies need only be protected from one element for the weapon to lose its effectiveness, right?  Or am I thinking of the wrong FF here?  Normally, for a weapon that can inflict all element damage per swing, if any one element is protected against, the whole shebang is compromised, right?  Or does that not apply to Tactics?  I'm not sure since the original Vanilla version never had anything like that in it.

Am I getting everything right or am I still not getting it all?  :?


The Wind element, no longer exists, it's now the Cure Element. Also there are a few weapons that already have this niche (for instance the Feng Shui scrolls), cards have opposing elements for the most part...

The current cards are...

Loaded Deck
Talisman Pile
Joker's Play
Addiction
Equality
Tarot of Ben

In the original scripting, they were meant to be used by Oracles and Gamblers, half of them have magical effects, half of them have physical effects.

In the final game though, they're only used by Gamblers. Talisman Pile and Equality are two parts of the Oracle's Story, which I am won't to part with. Regardless good ideas, unfortunately they don't quite work with FFT's system.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Wasabi [Posts: 187]
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  • [November 22, 2009, 01:38:52 AM]
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2009, 01:38:52 AM »
LD, off-topic, but have you utilized the elemental gun formula on any weapons in Mercs? That's what I was explaining in my previous post.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Wasabi »
Keith Kuruzu
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  • [November 22, 2009, 04:42:18 AM]
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2009, 04:42:18 AM »
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
The current cards are...

Loaded Deck
Talisman Pile
Joker's Play
Addiction
Equality
Tarot of Ben

In the original scripting, they were meant to be used by Oracles and Gamblers, half of them have magical effects, half of them have physical effects.

In the final game though, they're only used by Gamblers. Talisman Pile and Equality are two parts of the Oracle's Story, which I am won't to part with. Regardless good ideas, unfortunately they don't quite work with FFT's system.


That's perfectly fine.  I just didn't see anything in the thread regarding weapons so I figured I'd share my opinion on it, just in case things still needed to be figured out.   :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Keith Kuruzu »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [July 30, 2010, 05:38:42 PM]
Re: Gambler Job Discussion Thread (Update on First Post!)
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2010, 05:38:42 PM »
Resurrection!

Alright, Gambler is a special case. It will run similar to how the EsperBlade will, that the Card they have equipped will be what abilities can be used, in this way Rad and Ramza can share a skillset. Though I would like At Least four more skills for this class. Just keep the themes of chance in mind, when you present the skills.

"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Winner of the 2nd 1.3 AI Tournament
PX_Timefordeath [Posts: 1781]
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  • [August 02, 2010, 02:32:34 AM]
Re: Gambler Job Discussion Thread (Update on First Post!)
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2010, 02:32:34 AM »
Royal Flush: Being the highest hand possible, the odds of landing one is abysmal but devastates all that oppose it. Range 4, Area 3, Randomly hits twice in the area, big damage

Double Down: One of the riskiest moves, it can double the life of the Gambler, or handicap him to the table. 50% Reraise or Don't Move
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [August 02, 2010, 03:13:31 AM]
Re: Gambler Job Discussion Thread (Update on First Post!)
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2010, 03:13:31 AM »
Oh, these are good themes! I definitely will be using them! Anyone you had in mind to give to either (or both) Rad and Ramza?

"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Winner of the 2nd 1.3 AI Tournament
PX_Timefordeath [Posts: 1781]
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  • [August 02, 2010, 06:46:37 AM]
Re: Gambler Job Discussion Thread (Update on First Post!)
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2010, 06:46:37 AM »
Rad:

Drinking Game: Rad challenges everyone around him to outdrink him. Chance of causing sleep/berserk. Target self, Area 1
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [August 02, 2010, 03:47:18 PM]
Re: Gambler Job Discussion Thread (Update on First Post!)
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2010, 03:47:18 PM »
Haha! Oh that is grand! Now That's characteristic! I really like that one.

"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
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