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C1REX [Posts: 46]
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  • [February 22, 2018, 10:53:02 PM]
It's not tested yet but I have an idea how to very simply rebalance the game: by cutting PA and MA multiplayer in half for playable jobs.

Why?
- to make battles less luck oriented and to last longer
- making poison, regen and all status skills way more powerful.
- Swords skills would be much weaker relatively to just attack
- Destroy equipment skills would be way more useful (I also plane to give equipments 50% more hp bonus)
- Defending and healing would be much more useful.
- Orator and Oracle would be way more useful.
- Monsters would be usable without changing them.
- Ninja throw skill would be way more powerful.
- Drain and gravi would be  much more useful.



In addition I plan to double lvl for all enemies in the game where possible and flatline stat growth.


What do you think? What problems I may encounter by doing this?
Twerp
Myrmidon [Posts: 70]
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  • [February 22, 2018, 11:42:33 PM]
Re: Very simple idea of rebalancing the game. Cutting attack power in half.
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 11:42:33 PM »
there's ASM floating around that turns PA*Y into (PA+Y)*PA, and an MA variant that is also affected by Faith.  By scaling and calculating potential min/max damage outputs, you should be able to rebalance it that way.
C1REX [Posts: 46]
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  • [February 23, 2018, 01:19:41 AM]
Re: Very simple idea of rebalancing the game. Cutting attack power in half.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 01:19:41 AM »
I've tested so far by cutting multiplayers job by job. After few random battles I'm very impressed by the results.

Few things that I've noticed:


Geomencer is way more powerful now as status from elementals seems to be way more useful. Also axes seems to be more useful but it can be my imagination. Also 100% hit rate is now more important as other caster miss more often.
Knights seems to be much stronger without changing anything else. Boosting HP further makes them very powerful.
Destroying weapon makes a huge difference. Destroying armour takes a lot of HP comparing to attacks. Reducing PA or MA makes about twice as much as before. I really like how it changes Knights.

Archer charging is more powerful and should remain strong for longer as base PA won't be increasing as much. Seems like a better class now.
Wizard seems much weaker early on but also should not lose much power due to more stable base MA growth.
Chemist is way more useful now. Potions and status heal is very strong.
Square is also way more useful. Accumulate is amazing. Also Wish is stronger comparing to chakra or white magic.
They also can use powerful weapons like swords and axes what gives them big boost in damage comparing to other classes. Very nice rebalancing.

Priest healing is not so strong and may need adjustment (or not).
Weapons makes a bigger difference now. Monk attacks and healing aren't as strong what I like - I was overusing this class way too much.

Monsters are way more dangerous/useful without changing anything about them.

I really like how an enemy can take 5 hits now. Knights may need a whole team to attach and he may survive.
I almost feel like the game was intended to have base MA and PA so low. I'm very happy with the results and I recommend to test it out.
Nyzer [Posts: 778]
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  • [February 23, 2018, 03:22:45 AM]
Re: Very simple idea of rebalancing the game. Cutting attack power in half.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 03:22:45 AM »
1) The words "multiplier" and "multiplayer" have different meanings.

2) This isn't a new concept - a lot of modders will agree that damage output/scaling in FFT is too high, compared to HP. It's a bit more complex than simply halving PA/MA (for example, the physical vs. magical scaling over the length of the game is imbalanced), but I'm glad you found a good starting point to play with and experience the increased usefulness of non-damaging skills.

3) I'd recommend trying Ch. 1 of Jot5 if you want to experience a mod featuring reduced output and rebalanced skills with an emphasis on utilizing status effects, etc. It showcases some useful ASMs, too.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • C1REX [Posts: 46]
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    • [February 23, 2018, 08:39:06 AM]
    Re: Very simple idea of rebalancing the game. Cutting attack power in half.
    « Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 08:39:06 AM »
    My apologies for language mistakes - I'm not a native speaker. Multiplier then :) Thanks for correcting.

    I understand it may not be a new concept but I'm impressed so far. I didn't expect such good results by doing just that. I may need to tweak spell damage calculation but so far so good.

    1.3 was too frustrating for me and I started to abuse a tactic with magic casters (priests mostly) around a monk who were spamming chakra.
    Excellent mod but I wanted something more fun too play (for me) with less rng.


    I'm planning to slowly build the patch further with much more tweaks.

    My ideas for the patch. I understand most or all of them were implemented before in various patches.

    - To keep vanilla feel but rebalanced so less popular skills and classes would be much more useful or even more powerful than Monk, priest, ninja and holy knights. My emphasis is on Knight, Archer, Orator, Oracle, Geomancer, Samurai) as a class and not just skills), mime, bard/dancer. Also hell and heaven knight will be much stronger. Mustadio will get missile and head shot to be much more useful and fun now.

    - PA/MA reduced by 50% as a starting point.
    - Enemy lvl multiplied by 2 when possible.
    - less rng - more 100% hit rate skills with adjusted mp, CT or range to balance it.
    - Heavy gear HP bonus improved by 50%.
    - Shields effectiveness improved by 1.5-2x
    - stat growth flatlined and multipliers adjusted. This is a big one for me as I won't be stuck in knight/monk for males and wizard/summoner for females to get best stats at the end. It also keep the difference in stats more consistent from low lvl to 99lvl.
    - enemies will have better skillsets. This includes a lot more healing and strong reaction and support skills including some of the most powerful combinations with 97 brave and 3 faith. That should give a feel of how most powerful setups work on enemies.
    - A lot more initiate skills to make classes more unique from each other.
     


    I wonder what problems I will encounter with that. Also how people balance magic to be useful end game as well? Adjusting MA growth?
    Guru [Posts: 195]
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    • [February 24, 2018, 05:34:54 PM]
    Re: Very simple idea of rebalancing the game. Cutting attack power in half.
    « Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 05:34:54 PM »
    I'm not sure how well the enemy level multiplied by 2 will work out, especially monster enemies, I think they will end up being a bit too OP later on. Either way, that is sort of artificial difficulty, I think improving the enemy teams with a wider range of job classes and skills would be the better option.

    I'm not sure how much work you are going to put into this, but really if you are just cutting PA/MA, there will still be the same balance issues between the classes too. Speed is also a broken stat imo. Also, with the way you are adjusting the equipment, the sword skills that break equipment would be the most OP skillset in the game. You might even want to consider checking out the fury hack later on, which makes brave have the same affects on attack/defense that faith has. I've always thought this was an awesome asm, something I would definitely be interested in if I ever get a project officially going.

    Otherwise, yeah this..
    Quote
    damage output/scaling in FFT is too high, compared to HP. It's a bit more complex than simply halving PA/MA (for example, the physical vs. magical scaling over the length of the game is imbalanced), but I'm glad you found a good starting point to play with and experience the increased usefulness of non-damaging skills

    I think it'll need a lot of messing around and adjusting, but it will be interesting to see what you come up with.
    C1REX [Posts: 46]
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    • [February 24, 2018, 10:20:54 PM]
    Re: Very simple idea of rebalancing the game. Cutting attack power in half.
    « Reply #6 on: February 24, 2018, 10:20:54 PM »
    It's impossible to do a perfect balance. I cut damage first as a base to make battles last longer and to avoid 1HKO. No matter what I do it will be fake difficulty increase.

    - I want monsters to be stronger so I'm fine they will do lot of damage. They are also limited in skills, gear and status immunity so it should be fine.

    - I'm working on Magic damage scaling and I'm close to make it work. 1 option is to simply make MAG very high so you end up with MA at about 40-60 at lvl 99. The damage scales very nicely but the difference between males and females becomes huge - way too big for my liking.
    The second option is to add MA to items so scaling will be strongly attached to items. It's much less smooth but males and females are almost the same at the end. The challenge is to have limited number of items attribute slots. I don't understand why magical weapons don't boost magic powers. I feel like I'm fixing the game here.


    - I flatline speed growth to 100 and slightly adjust speed multiplier by very little to give small speed bonus to some jobs. Speed is broken.

    - I plan to use the best combinations of classes I'm aware of for more fun gameplay.

    - cutting MA and especially PA really works great so far. It fixes some really weird problems like Ninja with martial arts doing more damage than with swords. In vanilla even knights at the beginning of the game do more damage without swords than with weapons. PA is simply higher than WP so PA*PA > PA*WP - that shouldn't happen.

    - I keep working on it for many, many hours already even for such simple vanilla mod as I also want to make less popular classes to shine this time.
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