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FFT: Return to Ivalice patch  (Read 693 times)
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arbi [Posts: 6]
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  • [January 13, 2018, 10:26:52 PM]
FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
« on: January 13, 2018, 10:26:52 PM »
I decided to start my own patch after playing a couple others and not find a happy medium between too much being different (or infuriatingly difficult) and/or too little change.

My design philosophy for this patch focuses around 3 aspects:
Buff what was weak
Reduce Redundancy
Explore and/or expand upon existing game mechanics

With this patch I'm attempting to preserve the themes of the content provided from the original FFT while updating it with a few new skills and updated animations where necessary for freshness. This is also intended as an effort to increase difficulty (marginally) and strategic elements by changing the toolboxes rather than numbers of tools or over-tweaking numbers.

I wanted to post my current changelog to hear suggestions and feedback as well as provide a guideline for how things will develop. This is my first patch and I haven't done much ASM editing myself (working primarily through spreadsheets and improvising), so be gentle.

General Changes

Skill-based ASM hacks

Job changes

The job tree has been modified. The concept behind this change was to smooth out build paths so that characters can be specialized or built linearly and still be viable. It will require testing, but the intention is to have stronger NPCS without having to individually edit every scene.

The magic tree in particular has been significantly reworked to reduce redundancy and strengthen the themes of each individual class.
JP and EXP increasing abilities have been removed from all classes.

Job Tree changes

Individual Job changes

Squire

Chemists

Knights

Thief

Archer

Priest

Wizard

Time Mage

Mystic

Commander

Berserker (TBE)
The Berserker replaces the Geomancer and is an auto-attack centered physical damage dealer. The intention of the Berserker is to provide an additional speed based damage dealer to bridge the gap between Thief and Ninja. Its skillset will focus on using axes while under berserk status to do major damage as well as boosting brave for better reaction chances.


Dragoon
Dragoon now has Move on Lava

Monk

Summoner
Summons now target enemies and allies and all summons are learnable on hit.
Golem removed
Summoners now have Absorb Used MP

Ninja
Can no longer equip flails.
Throw Book, pole, and flail removed.
Abandon moved to Thief.

Samurai
Draw Out skills now target enemies and allies.
Formula 20, 21, 23 now use: (PA+MA/2) * Y, strengthening Draw Out ability damage.

Calculator
Now have Regenerator, MP Switch, and Fly.
Move Get EXP/JP and Gain EXP UP removed.

More changes are planned for the future, including changing the math skill table or creating a new T4 magic class. I personally enjoy Calculator and used it a bunch in old playthroughs, so the intent is to rebalance rather than gut its functionality completely.

Bard
Now have Brave UP
Fly moved to Calculator
Faith UP moved to Priest
MA save moved to Wizard

Dancer
Brave UP removed

Bard and Dancer notes
I would like to change these classes so they functioned as special classes (similar to mime) and their command casts a random song out of the list of the ones learned. I am not yet sure how to do this, but I also haven't seriously attempted yet while working on all the other changes. If you have any suggestions, please share.

Items

Damage Formulas


Availability
Several magic weapons and armors in the game have become rarer or in some cases exclusive. This is not to punish the players or nerf builds, but rather encourage creative gameplay, increase the power of status elements, and bolster the importance of Steal command and the Poaching shop. In most cases these items have received bonus functionality or buffs. Thieves are now your gateway to powerful magical items!


Item Rebalancing
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 04:02:34 AM by arbi »
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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 4049]
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    • [January 14, 2018, 08:48:22 PM]
    Re: FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
    « Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 08:48:22 PM »
    Have you already implemented these changes or this is just what you are planning to do?

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    arbi [Posts: 6]
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    • [January 15, 2018, 02:59:11 AM]
    Re: FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
    « Reply #2 on: January 15, 2018, 02:59:11 AM »
    Hey, thanks for responding c:

    I've already implemented these changes, but I haven't posted the patch. There are actually a lot more changes than this that I've been working on, but I got tired of the post timing out so I haven't updated the changelog yet. I haven't linked the patch because I haven't edited all the text for the corresponding skill changes and feel like it'd be ugly to put out before then.

    Right now I'm working on changing regular auto attacks to use Charge. After lots of trial and error I got auto attacks to use the charge menu for players so I don't have to abandon the charge mechanic to buff archers (it's just a stronger auto anyways), but now NPCs occasionally skip their turn. Archers still use their version of charge normally (testing in Goug Mustadio fight).

    A happy consequence is that the AI uses their skills much more often, making them indirectly more challenging. I hypothesize one way to avoid this problem is to create an NPC only skill that is just a normal auto attack or make sure every human class has at least one damaging skill, so the aggressive AIs can always attack.

    I feel there is something easier I'm overlooking.

    EDIT: I figured out a better workaround. I wanted to use Attack since it seemed to make sense but this caused NPCs without the Charge skillset to use auto attacks that were canceled as soon as they confirmed them. The Skillset Behaviors spreadsheet allows you to also change the behavior of Defend and Equip Change and since everyone can learn them as supports and use them innately, one of them can be changed to accomplish the same thing. I tested it out with Defend, but choosing between the two I think I'll scrap Equip Change (especially since it glitches out NPC AI anyways) and make Defense innate.

    Having access to Charge indirectly buffs Defense too, making the 2x evasion extra worthwhile versus charged autos. On a side note: Getting a lot of mileage out of Defend + Counter Flood.
    « Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 06:15:32 AM by arbi »
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    Aiolon [Posts: 126]
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    • [January 15, 2018, 08:16:37 PM]
    Re: FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
    « Reply #3 on: January 15, 2018, 08:16:37 PM »
    okay so last night i wrote an entire post of questions and comments but logging limit kicked me out before i could post so RIP my post. i will go to the point this time.

    1. is your patch only a small rebalance and skillset changes to jobs? nothing else diferent? items? ENTD? mechanics?

    2. your Learn on hit for high magic level looks like its not going to work, i dont know if you are aware of this but learn % affects 3 things: 1- the chance for a random unit to learn an ability assuming it has enough JP left for it. 2- Chance to learn said ability from crystals (ak units shiny rotten corpses). and 3- chance to learn an ability on hit. the problem comes when you realize that for this sceneraio to happen (i assume high level abilities are going to be over 400JP+) theres going to be only 20% chance for a random unit to learn the ability as long as you give it enough JP and theres also only 20% chance for your units to learn that ability, that means this can be very frustrating, rare and time consuming and it looks like it can be an exploit since you can simply have your Unit A level 6 wizard cast flare on your unit B level 1 wizard several times until it learns it.

    3. i cant really understand what you tried to do with charge + auto attack (so auto attack = attack command?) if this is what you intend to do then i'd like to see how it works because i can imagine lots of glitches involving AI and CT management, also arent units using a charge command vulnerable to attacks? no evasion and aditional damage taken. im very confused.

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    arbi [Posts: 6]
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    • [January 15, 2018, 09:28:35 PM]
    Re: FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
    « Reply #4 on: January 15, 2018, 09:28:35 PM »
    okay so last night i wrote an entire post of questions and comments but logging limit kicked me out before i could post so RIP my post. i will go to the point this time.

    1. is your patch only a small rebalance and skillset changes to jobs? nothing else diferent? items? ENTD? mechanics?

    2. your Learn on hit for high magic level looks like its not going to work, i dont know if you are aware of this but learn % affects 3 things: 1- the chance for a random unit to learn an ability assuming it has enough JP left for it. 2- Chance to learn said ability from crystals (ak units shiny rotten corpses). and 3- chance to learn an ability on hit. the problem comes when you realize that for this sceneraio to happen (i assume high level abilities are going to be over 400JP+) theres going to be only 20% chance for a random unit to learn the ability as long as you give it enough JP and theres also only 20% chance for your units to learn that ability, that means this can be very frustrating, rare and time consuming and it looks like it can be an exploit since you can simply have your Unit A level 6 wizard cast flare on your unit B level 1 wizard several times until it learns it.

    3. i cant really understand what you tried to do with charge + auto attack (so auto attack = attack command?) if this is what you intend to do then i'd like to see how it works because i can imagine lots of glitches involving AI and CT management, also arent units using a charge command vulnerable to attacks? no evasion and aditional damage taken. im very confused.

    1.) The patch is going to be a complete rebalance, but it will not be radically different than FFT vanilla, or at least that is not the intent. I am working on items and shops today and once I get bored/find a good stopping point I'll update the change log to reflect that. Scenes are going to be edited here and there, as well as some storyline battles, and various un/underexplored mechanics will be further touched upon in this patch (poaching, stealing, soldier office, exclusivity of magic items, etc.). I do not want to significantly alter the story in any way or make it into a fan-fic. I want this patch to be accessible to new FFT players and returning players who want a fresh gameplay experience.

    2.) The learn on hit is as intended right now. I haven't played around with it in game yet, but I feel the high level magics should both A.) not be tossed at the player every battle because they are stronger and with larger AoEs now (to match their animations) and B.) be an accomplishment to get for free. To me, it's fine that not every Wizard hits your party with Flare/Tornado/Quake when you see them because this could easily get frustrating. The other combat magic abilities have had their damage and/or utility increased so they will not be negligible anymore when used against the player.

    3.) Player characters will have the charge option as part of their default command list: Move, Act (Attack, 2 job commands, Charge, Defend), wait, status, and auto battle. I find the Charge command to be a lot of fun and not without purpose, so I did not want to completely remove it as other patches have. It is true though that mechanically, they are just stronger versions of normal attacks, so I did not see a reason why players should not have the option to use them. When I replaced attack with the charge command it did create AI issues, but when I replaced Equip Change with Charge the AI no longer had those issues and the player had access to charge skills.

    I haven't tried giving this new command to the AI, but if it creates problems I don't see why it can't be a player-only thing. In turn, the archer will get some new stuff and if the AI can't use the EC fix, NPC archers will have a separate archer skillset with a mix of charges and new skills.
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    Aiolon [Posts: 126]
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    • [January 15, 2018, 10:24:47 PM]
    Re: FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
    « Reply #5 on: January 15, 2018, 10:24:47 PM »
    Quote
    1.) The patch is going to be a complete rebalance, but it will not be radically different than FFT vanilla, or at least that is not the intent. I am working on items and shops today and once I get bored/find a good stopping point I'll update the change log to reflect that. Scenes are going to be edited here and there, as well as some storyline battles, and various un/underexplored mechanics will be further touched upon in this patch (poaching, stealing, soldier office, exclusivity of magic items, etc.). I do not want to significantly alter the story in any way or make it into a fan-fic. I want this patch to be accessible to new FFT players and returning players who want a fresh gameplay experience.
    i see i see. i asked this because your introduction post only mentioned job related stuff so far. by the way if its your first patch i wish you good luck, that item editing can be extremely time consuming if you plan to modify all items.

    Quote
    2.) The learn on hit is as intended right now. I haven't played around with it in game yet, but I feel the high level magics should both A.) not be tossed at the player every battle because they are stronger and with larger AoEs now (to match their animations) and B.) be an accomplishment to get for free. To me, it's fine that not every Wizard hits your party with Flare/Tornado/Quake when you see them because this could easily get frustrating. The other combat magic abilities have had their damage and/or utility increased so they will not be negligible anymore when used against the player.
    okay i sill think the chance for this to happen its going to be a very rare event but i get what you are trying to do.

    Quote
    3.) Player characters will have the charge option as part of their default command list: Move, Act (Attack, 2 job commands, Charge, Defend), wait, status, and auto battle. I find the Charge command to be a lot of fun and not without purpose, so I did not want to completely remove it as other patches have. It is true though that mechanically, they are just stronger versions of normal attacks, so I did not see a reason why players should not have the option to use them. When I replaced attack with the charge command it did create AI issues, but when I replaced Equip Change with Charge the AI no longer had those issues and the player had access to charge skills.

    oh, getting EC to open charge menu was a clever thing. by the way have you tried unflagging the Used by AI box for charge ability? i understand that doing this can hurt the AI/NPC but the AI tends to use charge 90% of the time with the other 10% being the use of a diferent skill to inflict a status, to heal an ally unit or a normal attack to kill a unit with critical HP.
    archers may be affected a lot if you remove charge for them but it should be fine if you can give them a diferent skillset and move charge to another job such as squire. and i dont know if you have noticed but have you seen the amount of archer npcs in ENTD? its ridiculous! it goes like 50% archers, 30% knights, 10% monks and the remaining 10% other jobs.

    so.. the only thing i dont get is how are you unlocking stronger versions of charge? are they automatically unlocked? or what job+skillset are you using for it? if you give archers a separate skillset then you wont be able to level charge unless you move it to another job.
     i could be wrong but you cant mix charge with other abilities because charge is a harcoded command like jump, add a normal ability to any of those skillsets and bad stuff will happen.

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    Chocobo: Wark?
    Wizzard: Hurry up and give it a try!
    Chocobo: Wark...
    ~ Durai Records its now complete ~
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    arbi [Posts: 6]
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    • [January 15, 2018, 10:46:41 PM]
    Re: FFT: Return to Ivalice patch
    « Reply #6 on: January 15, 2018, 10:46:41 PM »

    oh, getting EC to open charge menu was a clever thing. by the way have you tried unflagging the Used by AI box for charge ability? i understand that doing this can hurt the AI/NPC but the AI tends to use charge 90% of the time with the other 10% being the use of a diferent skill to inflict a status, to heal an ally unit or a normal attack to kill a unit with critical HP.
    archers may be affected a lot if you remove charge for them but it should be fine if you can give them a diferent skillset and move charge to another job such as squire. and i dont know if you have noticed but have you seen the amount of archer npcs in ENTD? its ridiculous! it goes like 50% archers, 30% knights, 10% monks and the remaining 10% other jobs.

    so.. the only thing i dont get is how are you unlocking stronger versions of charge? are they automatically unlocked? or what job+skillset are you using for it? if you give archers a separate skillset then you wont be able to level charge unless you move it to another job.
     i could be wrong but you cant mix charge with other abilities because charge is a harcoded command like jump, add a normal ability to any of those skillsets and bad stuff will happen.

    I did try unchecking "used by ai" but the AI still tried to use the attacks and it ended up with them not doing anything and skipping their turns. I'll try the EC hack and see if it works, and if not I'll take a blank skillset and make an Archer NPC class. Also I currently have Charge 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, and 20 free to all playable classes in the menu (JP set to 0, learn to 100).

    I'm doing all my testing in the Goug fight where you save Mustadio and there are 2 thieves, 2 archers, 2 summoners, so I've seen some of the new magics and mechanics in play. No archer has tried to use any charge >5, so the change doesn't seem to matter as they won't suicide. For players, utilizing CT in clever and effective ways is a core element of the tactical combat of FFT which I don't want to abandon. Charge 10 and 20 will still be impractical if not built around. If they are built around they should be useful and satisfying.

    Also I'll update the changelog with the item changes today.
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