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Summoner Ability - Golem glitch  (Read 174 times)
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Mime [Posts: 21]
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  • [November 12, 2017, 01:13:26 PM]
Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
« on: November 12, 2017, 01:13:26 PM »
Upon my research on messing up with the Golem ability, I figured that there is a totally obvious glitch or I just do not get along with enough golem back in the day...

So on a brand new ISO I have Ramza cast Golem on him. When the other party members being hit, the golem hand appear on them as well and took the hit! If Ramza died, the effect still takes place at least until the golem hp in one of the party member reach 0.

Am I being unintelligent or is this really a glitch? Seriously, when Ramza about to cast Golem the yellow square only highlight him instead of the rest of the party... :shock:

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    Nyzer [Posts: 700]
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    • [November 12, 2017, 02:38:50 PM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 02:38:50 PM »
    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Summon_(Tactics)

    http://final-fantasy-tactics-the-war-of-the-lions.wikia.com/wiki/Golem 

    I can't find the original PSX description of Golem, but (and not to be a dick here - just remember it for the future) this level of fact-checking isn't hard. There is a glitch associated with Golem, in that the AI tends to rate its removal as top priority to the point of casters using weak melee attacks to remove it instead of big spell nukes to just straight up kill people, but the spell itself is meant to affect the whole party.
    « Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 06:16:14 PM by Nyzer »
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    Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4259]
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    • [November 12, 2017, 02:40:05 PM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 02:40:05 PM »
    Wait, what's the glitch now?

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    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3025]
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    • [November 12, 2017, 05:10:07 PM]
    "Blame yourself or God."
    Ildon [Posts: 38]
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    • [November 12, 2017, 07:26:21 PM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 07:26:21 PM »
    ...
    « Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:48:56 AM by Ildon »
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    Nyzer [Posts: 700]
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    • [November 12, 2017, 07:50:14 PM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 07:50:14 PM »
    Ildon, I can very easily assure you that Xifanie knows about the AI glitch for Golem. That was not what was being reported as the "glitch" in this topic.

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    Ildon [Posts: 38]
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    • [November 12, 2017, 11:11:20 PM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 11:11:20 PM »
    ...
    « Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:49:08 AM by Ildon »
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    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3025]
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    • [November 13, 2017, 12:42:34 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 12:42:34 AM »
    Why are you being a pedant?

    The OP did not ask "What is the glitch with Golem?", and Xifanie's post is a response to the OP questioning whether the standard mechanical behavior of Golem is a glitch.  I can see that you might have somehow misconstrued her as questioning Nyzer despite the lack of quote posting so because Nyzer, far later, edited a secondary explanation of a glitch that does exist with Golem into his post unrelated to the one the OP was asking about.  (Check the edit date on his initial reply and compare it to the post date on both Xifanie's and my own initial post to see this.)

    When Nyzer himself came back to clarify this for you, there was no reason to be pedantic and act like he was incapable of comprehending your post - or even defend yourself.  No one said you were wrong.  He just pointed out that you made a misunderstanding with Xifanie's post.   Nobody's "confused" but you.

    (Also, Golem's behaviour in regards to the AI is indeed a glitch.  It operates this way because of a mistake in the math in calculating the % Status Priority when Golem is active on part of the programmers, and a number of minor but sloppy errors.  These things in summation result in the AI mistakenly believing its capable of dispelling Golem with weak melee hits and that doing so is equivalent to dispelling five statuses with said mistaken % Status Priority calculation.  This has been known by dissecting the AI's code and there is an ASM available to fix this problem and make the AI behave in the way it was intended.)
    Mime [Posts: 21]
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    • [November 13, 2017, 01:03:42 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 01:03:42 AM »
    That's literally how it's supposed to work.  It's a party-wide buff because it isn't actually tied to a status effect.
    Thank you for understanding my question. So you mean even the yellow square only highlights Ramza, the mechanic still allow Golem to cover the whole party? Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I am aware Last Song adds Quick which is not listed as status effect in FFPatcher but still gets the yellow square highlight for all allies.

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Summon_(Tactics)

    http://final-fantasy-tactics-the-war-of-the-lions.wikia.com/wiki/Golem 

    I can't find the original PSX description of Golem, but (and not to be a dick here - just remember it for the future) this level of fact-checking isn't hard. There is a glitch associated with Golem, in that the AI tends to rate its removal as top priority to the point of casters using weak melee attacks to remove it instead of big spell nukes to just straight up kill people, but the spell itself is meant to affect the whole party.
    Thank you for reminding me the description which I am actually aware of however I personally could not simply accept to relate a description text to a some sort of Golem mechanic that I am curious of because as I said:
    ...when Ramza about to cast Golem the yellow square only highlight him instead of the rest of the party... :shock:
    The yellow square that I am talking about is for example when Bard sing Last Song - the whole party member get a yellow square highlight below their feet meaning that they will receive the effect (and the animation).

    On the other hand although it is not part of my question, thank you for giving me a head up on the AI Golem glitch but I am pretty sure to have read it on a different thread.

    I am very sorry if my explanation regarding the actual question does not actually reach some people understanding.
    « Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 01:19:35 AM by Mime »
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    Xifanie (Webmistress) [Posts: 4259]
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    • [November 13, 2017, 01:28:58 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 01:28:58 AM »
    Well, that's heavily debatable because:
    A) Golem's HP is calculated from the caster's max HP and nothing else
    B) Golem's effect will affect new units and stop affecting units depending on their allegiance.

    So, no matter which, you could interpret both targeting all allies and not doing so as a "glitch".

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    Ildon [Posts: 38]
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    • [November 13, 2017, 01:31:55 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 01:31:55 AM »
    ...
    « Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:49:26 AM by Ildon »
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    Mime [Posts: 21]
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    • [November 13, 2017, 02:03:50 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 02:03:50 AM »
    Well, that's heavily debatable because:
    A) Golem's HP is calculated from the caster's max HP and nothing else
    B) Golem's effect will affect new units and stop affecting units depending on their allegiance.

    So, no matter which, you could interpret both targeting all allies and not doing so as a "glitch".
    THANK YOU! I'll go with A) then.
    I must admit that the "glitch" occurred to me was simply my false understanding on how it works originally. I forgot the fact that Golem HP was calculated based on the caster MAX HP... my bad.

    As for B) I haven't test a situation where Golem effect takes place on a unit and then having it Charmed to the opposite faction. I will check it later.

    What is left outstanding with my Golem project is the missing transparency issue http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11755.0
    If you guys have the knowledge and would be much obliged to answer that would be greatly appreciated.
    « Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 05:41:42 AM by Mime »
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    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3025]
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    • [November 15, 2017, 04:45:18 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 04:45:18 AM »
    Thank you for understanding my question. So you mean even the yellow square only highlights Ramza, the mechanic still allow Golem to cover the whole party? Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I am aware Last Song adds Quick which is not listed as status effect in FFPatcher but still gets the yellow square highlight for all allies.

    Yes.  Golem only targets the user because there is no point in targeting other units.  As I said, it doesn't add a status or anything of the like to the units in question, unlike what one might think.  This is why there is no "Golem" status in FFTPatcher.  The effect of Golem is instead tracked globally and applied whenever a current member of your team is attacked by an appropriate Golem-deflectable ability.

    Quick is also not technically a status effect, just an immediate setting of a unit's CT bar to its maximum possible value (127) that is designed to be perceived as a status by the player.  (CT_00 is the same, except that it sets the unit's CT to the lowest possible value instead - 00.)  Last Song and Last Dance highlight all units affected because each unit is still affected - it's just that what they're affected by is technically a stat-changing effect that modifies their CT bar, which has a pop-up that's designed to make it appear to be a status effect despite not actually being one.  Mechanically, these abilities are no different than contemporaries like Battle Song or Polka Polka, if that makes sense.

    Golem is simply a global effect that, once applied, simply exists until it is consumed, and will always apply to all current team members when able.
    Mime [Posts: 21]
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    • [November 15, 2017, 07:48:55 AM]
    Re: Summoner Ability - Golem glitch
    « Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 07:48:55 AM »
    ...which has a pop-up that's designed to make it appear to be a status effect despite not actually being one.  Mechanically, these abilities are no different than contemporaries like Battle Song or Polka Polka, if that makes sense.

    Thanks for the extra enlightenment on the "Quick" matter. This brings me to another question:
    When you said pop-up, is it possible for me to add a popup for "Golem" even if it is not a status?
    I believe the "Quick" pop-up call a certain part at FRAME.bin (I saw Quick listed there).
    Aside from the Golem pop-up, I am planning to also add a popup for Morbol.

    I have searched around but has not yet come to a result. By chance, do you know any leads?

    Edit:
    For the status, I have found BigManStan thread. This left me the "non-status effect text" a mystery.

    PS: by the way I am a huge fan of your Item Workbook Compilation.xls  :D

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