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Timbo [Posts: 542]
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  • [November 11, 2016, 05:44:26 PM]
Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
« on: November 11, 2016, 05:44:26 PM »
As some of you know, my current project is implementing a new script for Final Fantasy Tactics. It's based off of an alternate translation that aims fix the wonkiness of the original script without going over the top with faux-Shakespearean dialogue. Basically, I'm trying to clean it up and class it up a bit.

Patch Goals

  1. Implement a new script that improves upon the original without the flagrant overembellishments and errors of War of the Lions.
  2. Update naming conventions to current Final Fantasy standards.
  3. Provide a patch that can be used as a base for other patches.
  4. Avoid change just for the sake of change.

Unfortunately, because I don't know ASM, I'm faced with some limitations regarding naming conventions. I can choose between Vanilla's FRAME.bin & WLDTEX.tm2 or the lengths of names used in War of the Lions. I chose the latter, which means that the game will have current Final Fantasy status effect names but in exchange a couple locations names had to be shortened. For example Murond Holy Place became St. Murond, Bethla Garrison became Fort Bethla, and Bariaus Valley became Bariaus Vale.

The thing I'm struggling with is how to separate the iconic from the nostalgic. Obviously lines like " l i t t l e  m o n e y" have to go and lines like "Blame yourself or God" need to stay but naming conventions make things feel a little trickier. While I guarantee almost everyone prefers Algus to Argath, Rad to Ladd, and Magic to Magicks, there are probably other names that are more contested like Balbanes to Barbaneth, Malak to Marach, Barinten to Barrington, or Aeris to Aerith godsakes. Which is why I'm asking for feedback.

Are there any if WotL naming conventions that you prefer?

Click here for reference:http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Tactics/Translations
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 01:57:29 AM by Jack of All Trades »
    • Modding version: PSX
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    Toshiko
    Angel (Empress) [Posts: 1246]
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    • にゃにゃめにゃにゃじゅうにゃにゃどのにゃらびでにゃくにゃくいにゃにゃくにゃにゃはんにゃにゃだいにゃんにゃくにゃらべてにゃがにゃがめ
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    • [November 12, 2016, 03:42:19 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
    « Reply #1 on: November 12, 2016, 03:42:19 AM »
    There is really only one WotL name change I emphatically prefer, which is Lede -> Lettie. Lettie is an actual name, and it's obvious how to pronounce it. That should have been the original translation. It is on a very short list of WotL changes that is actually more faithful and accurate to the source material. I'll allow the Zodiac monster changes as well (even though Hashmal is less accurate), since some of them were obviously wrong to start with, and the new convention is carried on by Final Fantasy XII. You could also argue Draclau -> Delacroix as more accurate and faithful, but the name Draclau is also referenced in Final Fantasy XII, which also takes place in Ivalice, so I'm less inclined to allow it. I'll still acknowledge that it's faithful, I just have reason to let the original stay. All other names, get the WotL out.

    I'll of course allow a few of the ability/job name changes, especially ones that catch up on convention, but all of the changes for the sake of change should be struck down.

    • Modding version: PSX
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    <@Elric> I agree to that as well
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    Timbo [Posts: 542]
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    • [November 12, 2016, 03:55:47 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
    « Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 03:55:47 PM »
    In my current draft I've kept all of the original Location save one. Though, I've changed some of their embellishments. Now instead of names like "Dorter Trade City" you'll see names like "Dorter, Merchant City", Warjilis, Port City", and "Goug, Clockwork City". I would be willing to drop the embellishments in favor of the original ones if people are interested in that. Originally, I elected to keep Sal Ghidos in favor of Zarghidas because it creates sense of greater cultural diversity in Ivalice, and Midlight's Deep in favor of the deep dungeon because I liked it better. That said, before the original post, I'd all ready reversed my decision about the Deep Dungeon and after reading your post I'll be reversing my decision on Zarghidas as well.

    For the most part I've been basing my decisions on naming conventions based on comparing the literal translation from the Final Fantasy Wiki, running them through both Bing and Google's translators, web searching the original text, and then localizing them myself. The hardest things to localize were the monk's abilities and the swordskills and I would welcome some criticism.

    Monk Skills

    Spinning Fist became Spinning Back Fist
    Repeating Fist became Pummel
    Wave Fist became Surge Attack
    Secret Fist became Death Touch
    Stigma Magic became Purify


    Sword Skills

    Stasis Sword became Unwavering Blade
    Split Punch became Life-Severing Strike (after begrudingly letting go of Parting Strike)
    Crush Punch became North Star Strike
    Lightning Stab became Lightning Thrust
    Holy Explosion became Heavenly Blast
    Shellbust Stab became Shellbust Thrust
    Blastar Punch became Starburst Strike
    Hellcry Punch became Hellscream Strike (though I'm very much open to Hellcry Strike)
    Icewolf Bite became Biting Icewolf Break
    « Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 06:38:08 PM by Jack of All Trades »
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    Nyzer [Posts: 976]
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    • [November 12, 2016, 07:48:01 PM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
    « Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 07:48:01 PM »
    Overall, you shouldn't change things for the sake of change. "Dorter, Trade City" works just fine; there's no reason to replace it with Merchant.

    Then, using the sword skills as an example - I can see why you might want to remove "punch" from the skill names (it's being done with a sword after all), but why are the changes so extensive? There's nothing wrong with Stasis Sword, especially considering it procs Stop. Why change Lightning Stab to Lightning Thrust?

    You're on track to one of the major problems with the WotL translation - they changed a lot of things just for the sake of change. Even if something sounds slightly better to you after the change, it's still going to be ridiculously jarring to the people who played the original. I mean, people hated the change from Aeris to Aerith, and that's a much smaller one.

    For a counter example, Stigma Magic to Purify makes sense, and is worth the change.

    Finally - looking at your monk and swordskill changes, it looks like you're setting up names that have nothing to do with either translation. If you really have to fix a bad FFT name, changing it so far away from the FFT name - use the WotL one. Neither FFT nor WotL players are going to recognize "Surge Attack", and that's not a good thing.

    • Modding version: PSX & WotL
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    Timbo [Posts: 542]
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    • [November 13, 2016, 12:36:05 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
    « Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 12:36:05 AM »
    Quote from: nyzer on November 12, 2016, 07:48:01 PM
    Overall, you shouldn't change things for the sake of change. "Dorter, Trade City" works just fine; there's no reason to replace it with Merchant.

    Then, using the sword skills as an example - I can see why you might want to remove "punch" from the skill names (it's being done with a sword after all), but why are the changes so extensive? There's nothing wrong with Stasis Sword, especially considering it procs Stop. Why change Lightning Stab to Lightning Thrust?

    You're on track to one of the major problems with the WotL translation - they changed a lot of things just for the sake of change. Even if something sounds slightly better to you after the change, it's still going to be ridiculously jarring to the people who played the original. I mean, people hated the change from Aeris to Aerith, and that's a much smaller one.

    For a counter example, Stigma Magic to Purify makes sense, and is worth the change.

    Finally - looking at your monk and swordskill changes, it looks like you're setting up names that have nothing to do with either translation. If you really have to fix a bad FFT name, changing it so far away from the FFT name - use the WotL one. Neither FFT nor WotL players are going to recognize "Surge Attack", and that's not a good thing.

    I agree that changes should not be made for the sake of change. However, one of the goals of this patch is to eliminate awkwardly translated elements of the original release. So, I'll be changing the port and merchant cities back to trade cities.

    As far as the monk and swordskills are considered, those extensive name changes are based on the literal translation from the Japanese text they are based upon. Here are the literal translations of the original moves.

    Spin Fist = Reverse Spinning Fist
    Repeating Fist = Continuous Fist
    Secret Fist = Concealed Fist
    Wave Fist = Wave Motion Strike
    Earth Slash = Earth Fury Slash
    Stigma Magic = Stoma Arts
    Revive = Resurrection
    Stasis Sword = Unmoving Lightless Sword   
    Split Punch = Chaotic Life-Severing Killing Strike
    Crush Punch = North Star Bone-Crushing Strike
    Lightning Stab = Peerless Lightning-Flash Thrust
    Holy Explosion = Holy Light Explosive Break
    Shellbust Stab = Strong Armor-Piercing Point Thrust
    Blastar Punch = Starry Heaven Bombing Strike
    Hellcry Punch = Hades Terror Scream Strike
    Icewolf Bite = Biting Ice Wolf Break

    The problem with Final Fantasy Tactics is the same with most early rpg releases. The English translation and localization is generally rushed and usually only given one or two quick passes.

    While I myself am not bilingual I am at least vaguely familiar with how translation works. It's not enough to simply literally translate one language to the next. It has to be localized as well or else you can end up with nonsense.

    Let's look at Secret Fist. It's translated from 秘孔拳 or Hikōken. If you toss it into a literal translator you'll probably get a phrase similar to Secret Hole Punches. The closest literal localization is Concealed Fist; so its meaning is lost. Most of the western world however is very familiar with the Wuxia concept of dim mak or death touch as it's more commonly known.

    While my new goals include not changing things just for the sake of change, after reading the literal translations for most of the abilities, the original release's leave me wanting, particularly the sword skills. Also, if I just left everything the same this wouldn't be much of a translation.

    That said, I welcome any and all suggestions, especially if you speak English and Japanese, Chinese, or both.
    Kaijyuu [Posts: 1336]
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    • [November 13, 2016, 07:02:29 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
    « Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 07:02:29 AM »
    As a big fan of the original translation, the biggest thing I disliked I'm certain you're already changing: the mix up of "breath" and "bracelet". An assassin using "stop bracelet" was just confusing.

    Another thing I'd like to point out are the spell quotes. The original translation of them was very literal, and given the flowery and esoteric nature of them in japanese, this often ended up weird (if occasionally oddly poignant). It's the one part of the game where the language really ought to be embellished in something akin to wotl style.
    Panda_Tar [Posts: 97]
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    • [November 14, 2016, 03:52:46 AM]
    Re: Final Fantasy Tactics: Brave Story
    « Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 03:52:46 AM »
    Also a big fan of the original translation, and I agree with Kaijyuu upon some details.

    Stasis Sword's quote was one of them. "Bury" has strange interpretation, that both feels like it's meant to be what it is (Bury under Stasis) or that it was meant to say ", buddy!", as if speaking casually with the target.

    – The numbering of spells should be gone and add the -ra, -ga and -ja particles (fire, fira, firaga, firaja etc.).

    – Name of characters, dunno... I abhor that Asgarth-thing, and many of those modified WotL names.

    – Some items having their names fixed, like Obelisk.

    – Some boss-related skills too. They all sound blank somehow.

    But as I'm not really familiar with Japanese, cannot delve further into the morality and reasoning of some more deeper translations.

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    • Always interpreting the foul side of things makes you fouler still.
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