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[Old] Moving forward 1.02  (Read 12099 times)
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Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 02, 2014, 10:25:20 AM]
[Old] Moving forward 1.02
« on: December 02, 2014, 10:25:20 AM »
(Thanks Xifanie for the formatting guide)

Welcome aboard guys! This topic has 2 purposes: organize all my memos, and tease you about the future patch!

Yes, I know...the patch has been "on hold" for a very long period of time. There are many explanations, (Last but not least, my laziness) but worry not: FFT+ is a dream for me, and I dont want to let it go (You know FFH's motto...right?  ;))

Index:
Jobs
Special Jobs
Difficulty
Monsters
Miscellaneous
Postgame


JOBS

When I started tinkering the jobs, my hope was to make each one useful. There must be a sense of progression (What's the point of unlocking the Ninja, if the Squire is stronger?), but each job should have a niche, and never become a complete waste of space.





















SPECIAL JOBS

Special jobs are way stronger than normal, and come with unique abilities (And way more powerful R/S/M abilities than a Squire)












Difficulty


It's hard to make everyone happy:
- Pro/veterans of the game will ask for more/stronger enemies with smart set-ups and 10 levels above you. and still roflstomp each battle like there is no tomorrow.
- Newbs will say that every battle is too hard because they can only use 5 units against 6 enemies, or because they can't control guests.
- Some people will argue that Fake Difficulty is real, while someone else will say that it isn't.
And so on...

So, what's the philosophy behind the patch?
What I aim for, is "fair" difficulty
It's hard to describe what I think it's fair difficulty, so I'll make some examples

So, what did I do to make the patch' difficulty level "Fair"?
- Enemies are always at the same level you are (Few exceptions here and there, mostly bosses)
- Enemies unlock stronger abilities depending on the chapter you are playing (Don't hope to fight monks with weapon guard in Ch 4)
- Enemies use the same equipment you can get in stores (Some enemies have better gear, so you can make your thieves happy <3)

Looking at the list, you might think "Man, you are making this mod WAY TOO HARD!"
But...think about it.
You have 2 "secret weapons" on your side:
1) You have a brain, the game doesnt. You can learn from your mistakes and adapt your strategy
2) You can grind to unlock new jobs/abilities, the enemies can't

In this way, you are free to play the game in any way you see fit:
- Want a challenge? Never grind & don't fight random battles. You'll have to carefully manage your resources to win...Fire Emblem style!
- You dont like difficulty? Play a lot of random battles, unlock new jobs (Ninjas in Dorter? Why not! no one is going to punish you) and roflstomp the game

Still think the game is too easy? Well, don't worry. Trust me, there are enemies way stronger than Altima in Ivalice...



Monsters

- Each spot on the map will feature 3 monster families
- Monsters are now faster, stronger, and put up quite a fight before going down
- Monsters of the same family have the same stats, but have different abilities (No monster is outclassed, they are just different)
- Think of them as a strong, highly specialized unit. Use them wisely, and they will serve you well. Underestimate them, and you will bite the dust.
- Since "Invite" is gone, you need to "train" them (Archer support ability)



miscellaneous
- Move find item will always give you the same item (Low Br to get better items? retarded)
- Most endgame stuff must be stolen from ch4 enemies (Thieves!)
- To trigger a random battle, you must click on the spot (People avoided them anyway with quicksave)



Postgame


So, you have defeated Altima, and you think "It was fun while it lasted"
Too bad for you it isn't over...far from it!
- First of all, after defeating Altima you return to the world map with Virgo/Leo in your possession. Cool stuff, right? You are free to keep playing without having to start over! (And even watch the ending if you wish)
- Each spot on the map has a special battle, unlocked in late Ch4...if you still haven't, it's the right time to try them! They are very hard compared to normal random battles, and you gain an Elixir if you survive (That's the only way to farm Elixirs)
- There is a place on the map where you can challenge the winners of the first FFH tournament...guess where?
- Last, but not least, after defeating Altima you unlock the Deep Dungeon. Fear it.
Remember all the words spent about "fair" difficulty? In the deep dungeon, they are bullcrap. Ready to step into hell?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 10:04:18 AM by Dome »
"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
mocliamgtaa [Posts: 3]
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  • [December 16, 2014, 09:23:24 PM]
Re: Moving forward 1.02
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2014, 09:23:24 PM »
I never finished the original and I think I'll try this one at some point instead. I don't know everything about the game, but I'll still offer some thoughts.

I assume there are no degenerator traps?

I never enjoyed the idea of having items hidden on certain tiles. What would you think about randomized move-find tiles (or trap tiles)?

About stealing and breaking equipment, what would you think about doing that deterministically? That is, to steal from an opponent (or vice versa), the command should be issued a total of N times, and it would be successful only at N:th time.

About "random" encounters, one way to balance grinding would be to add a bit of determinism there as well. For example, encounters triggering only N times before next story progression.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 16, 2014, 11:15:55 PM]
Re: Moving forward 1.02
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2014, 11:15:55 PM »
Welcome to FFH, where all your dreams come true!
Now, to answer your questions:

Quote
I assume there are no degenerator traps?
Degenerator traps are still there, but you can't increase your stats with them anymore (Stat growths are standard)

Quote
I never enjoyed the idea of having items hidden on certain tiles. What would you think about randomized move-find tiles (or trap tiles)?
That would be cool, but I don't think it's possible

Quote
About stealing and breaking equipment, what would you think about doing that deterministically? That is, to steal from an opponent (or vice versa), the command should be issued a total of N times, and it would be successful only at N:th time.
Nice idea, but again I don't know if it's possible.
And, since I'm a fan of the RNG goddes, I don't think I'd implement it :p

Quote
About "random" encounters, one way to balance grinding would be to add a bit of determinism there as well. For example, encounters triggering only N times before next story progression.
I think that would make the patch too hard for many newcomers, since grinding is their way out of difficult encounters...

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
mocliamgtaa [Posts: 3]
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  • [December 20, 2014, 12:04:26 PM]
Re: Moving forward 1.02
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 12:04:26 PM »
I think that relying on luck isn't that fun, for example stealing. With determinism you could roughly know whether you can pull something off or not, instead of trying a battle 10 times waiting for a lucky moment. With break attacks, if breaking took 2 hits, you could then end up in situations where you want to retreat some specific unit away from the opponent knight.

ASM hackers exist, and there are specialists of hacking this game on these forums (if anywhere), so most things are possible (though for some you might have to sacrifice bytes of other functionality). That is also to say that if there are "impossible" things that would align well with your vision of FFT+, it might be a good idea to list those impossible things for potential hackers to see. It is good to separate what your vision is from what is technically possible (because you might evaluate possibility wrong from the asm point of view).

Propositions are one things that might have potential for alteration. For example to bind find-item functionality to them somehow (instead of field).

I think there might not be other projects that aim to somehow keep the game close to the original (how much does this try to do that at this point though?) and have chances of being completed. So good luck with 1.02 in any case.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 20, 2014, 12:13:56 PM]
Re: Moving forward 1.02
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 12:13:56 PM »
1) FFT+ is complete. I'm remaking it from scratch because I want to make it even better...not because it's necessary
2) The patch feels a lot (But not completely) like the original. Balacing without changing anything is close to impossible, I think
If you want something that stays as true as possible to Vanilla, I think this is your best bet
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 01:47:41 PM by Dome »
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LordMagus [Posts: 7]
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  • [December 20, 2014, 05:23:28 PM]
Re: Moving forward 1.02
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 05:23:28 PM »
I think that relying on luck isn't that fun, for example stealing. With determinism you could roughly know whether you can pull something off or not, instead of trying a battle 10 times waiting for a lucky moment. With break attacks, if breaking took 2 hits, you could then end up in situations where you want to retreat some specific unit away from the opponent knight.

ASM hackers exist, and there are specialists of hacking this game on these forums (if anywhere), so most things are possible (though for some you might have to sacrifice bytes of other functionality). That is also to say that if there are "impossible" things that would align well with your vision of FFT+, it might be a good idea to list those impossible things for potential hackers to see. It is good to separate what your vision is from what is technically possible (because you might evaluate possibility wrong from the asm point of view).

Propositions are one things that might have potential for alteration. For example to bind find-item functionality to them somehow (instead of field).

I think there might not be other projects that aim to somehow keep the game close to the original (how much does this try to do that at this point though?) and have chances of being completed. So good luck with 1.02 in any case.

So wait, you think relying on "luck" isn't fun, but you want the move-find item locations to be randomized?  Most people skip move-find items as they are already for being a pain in the ass, and now you really want to have to search every panel of a field every time you play to make them work, because the guides no longer apply?  Aw hell no, that sounds like the most boring, frustrating thing ever.
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Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 4068]
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  • [December 20, 2014, 08:10:01 PM]
Re: Moving forward 1.02
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 08:10:01 PM »
So wait, you think relying on "luck" isn't fun, but you want the move-find item locations to be randomized?  Most people skip move-find items as they are already for being a pain in the ass, and now you really want to have to search every panel of a field every time you play to make them work, because the guides no longer apply?  Aw hell no, that sounds like the most boring, frustrating thing ever.

Agreed

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    Feelie [Posts: 12]
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    • [December 20, 2014, 08:11:50 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 08:11:50 PM »
    I actually do go for the Move-Find Items, so having them random would actually steer someone like me away from a mod.
    mocliamgtaa [Posts: 3]
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    • [December 20, 2014, 08:47:38 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 08:47:38 PM »
    So wait, you think relying on "luck" isn't fun, but you want the move-find item locations to be randomized?  Most people skip move-find items as they are already for being a pain in the ass, and now you really want to have to search every panel of a field every time you play to make them work, because the guides no longer apply?  Aw hell no, that sounds like the most boring, frustrating thing ever.

    The point is that any replacement system would be better than the current move-find item.
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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 4068]
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    • [December 20, 2014, 08:56:38 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 08:56:38 PM »
    There is Random and there is Not Random, which would you prefer?
     :wark:

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    Selius [Posts: 37]
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    • [January 10, 2015, 09:12:02 AM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 09:12:02 AM »
    if every job has innate move find item and the items are always the same, i dont see the issue.

    it's just a nice thing to have sprung up on you. "you have found a chain mail" when you are still using bronze armor etc
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [January 10, 2015, 09:49:29 AM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 09:49:29 AM »
    Only thieves have move find item now (1.02)

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    Vynllivash [Posts: 2]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 06:20:09 AM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 06:20:09 AM »
    Ehh, do I play 1.01, I've seen some videos and it looks amazing, but you're working on 1.02, so I guess the question is, just how lazy are you being so far? lol
    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 08:43:27 AM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 08:43:27 AM »
    Ehh, do I play 1.01, I've seen some videos and it looks amazing, but you're working on 1.02, so I guess the question is, just how lazy are you being so far? lol
    You can't even begin to understand how lazy I actually am
    After all, you cannot spell "Procrastinator" without spelling "pro" :p

    To be honest/serius, 1.02 is fully playable except some text error (FFTactext won't work for some reason) and the Beowulf bug (He doesn't show in the party as guest, but the sidequest won't trigger...it needs to be fixed with an hack)

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    Vynllivash [Posts: 2]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 03:55:45 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #14 on: February 04, 2015, 03:55:45 PM »
    I was a PROcrastinator in school, but I guess what I should be asking is whether or not you think it'd be completed sometime soon, you say its playable, but dangit I want Cloud. ALL HAIL FF7
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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 4068]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 06:31:30 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 06:31:30 PM »
    the Beowulf bug (He doesn't show in the party as guest, but the sidequest won't trigger...it needs to be fixed with an hack)

    What are you talking about? You said he doesn't show up in party, but the sidequests don't trigger? Do you mean he does show up and they don't trigger? or vice versa? I've never heard of this bug but it sounds like a simple ENTD or Event or Attack.out issue and I'm sure you didn't edit either one of those last two.

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    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 07:24:40 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #16 on: February 04, 2015, 07:24:40 PM »
    FFT+ removes guests from the party. You never see them in the roster.
    The Beowulf sidequest triggers when you answer "yes" and hire him in the bar. He joins as a guest, the dot turns red and you can go there and start the fights.
    If you remove the "join after event" flag from that event, the dot turns red but when you go there the fight doesn't start. It's like if the game checks if Beowulf actually is in the party, even if you already said "yes" and thus triggered the sidequest.
    I hope I made myself clear

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    Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 4068]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 08:09:26 PM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #17 on: February 04, 2015, 08:09:26 PM »
    FFT+ removes guests from the party. You never see them in the roster.
    The Beowulf sidequest triggers when you answer "yes" and hire him in the bar. He joins as a guest, the dot turns red and you can go there and start the fights.
    If you remove the "join after event" flag from that event, the dot turns red but when you go there the fight doesn't start. It's like if the game checks if Beowulf actually is in the party, even if you already said "yes" and thus triggered the sidequest.
    I hope I made myself clear
    TLW doesn't have this issue. And we don't have guests joins the party either. PM Raven about it, it's likely a small worldmap error

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    RavenOfRazgriz [Posts: 3030]
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    • [February 04, 2015, 08:12:18 PM]
    Grass/Flying
    skiploom188 [Posts: 237]
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    • [February 06, 2015, 05:21:01 AM]
    Re: Moving forward 1.02
    « Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 05:21:01 AM »
    I've been thinking about Agrias' Cure 1.5 skill, why not a swordskill that heals HP? Is that possible? Call it Paladin's Strike or something, just my idea.

    I'm the one guy who won't agree with Range 3 Throw Item. It's hardwired in my brain that it's 4 range and I can now imagine myself committing LOTS of misplays with that change. I guess I'm the only one making a big deal about this lol. Because muscle memory is hard to change :( . Whatever the case, I'm sure there's a fair reason for this that I am not seeing yet because I'm no hacker/modder.

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