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shadrach [Posts: 3]
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  • [November 30, 2014, 08:40:23 PM]
For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
« on: November 30, 2014, 08:40:23 PM »
So I'm going to be playing FF Tactics for the first time, and I'm wondering whether to play one of the patched versions (Complete, Kind of, FFT+ - I'm not sure which!) or vanilla (either War of the Lions or the PS1 original). I'm curious to know what the aficionados on the boards here would recommend - vanilla or patched, and if patched, which one?

Just for context, I originally came across these boards while googling the differences between War of the Lions and FFT original, and learning that there was a patch to fix the slow down issues in the former. Now that I've seen all these threads for complete overhaul patches, I'm wondering if I'd be better off playing through one of them instead.

Sorry if this thread pops up often. I have spent a while on the boards here, and had a look at the readmes for the different patches, but I still can't really get a good idea of what the "best" version is, particularly for someone who hasn't played the game before. As far as I can tell, FFT Complete adds a few fixes and combines the best features of the two original games, but doesn't change the gameplay, whereas Kind of and FFT+ are more or less complete overhauls. Is that about right?
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  • [November 30, 2014, 10:03:00 PM]
Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 10:03:00 PM »
Most of the experienced players and modders who are not Eternal will say PSX vanilla. You cannot truly appreciate a patch without first playing the original work, and most of us find WotL to be a blight on the PSX version. Eternal, on the other hand, loves WotL because there's no accounting for taste.

KO and FFT+ are intended to be played by people who have already played the hell out of the original. FFT Complete I can't really comment on.

The last bit of work is finally being applied to The Lion War, which should be out in the near future. That's really the only patch I'd say is fine for a first-time player, but I still think it's better appreciated if you've played the original first.

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    • [November 30, 2014, 11:50:38 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 11:50:38 PM »
    Play the original PSX version for the reasons Toshiko pointed out and because its the best version of the game.


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    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [November 30, 2014, 11:53:12 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 11:53:12 PM »
    Actually, FFT+ can be played/completed even by who didn't play the original: you can easily overcome hard battles simply by grinding if you wish (The game just makes sure your enemies are always on your level, but they don't unlock new jobs/abilities, unlike you)

    And...complete overhaul? Nah, just some changes here and there...if you want a complete overhaul play a patch like CCP (Or CoP - Jot5)
    « Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 12:04:48 AM by Dome »
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    • [December 01, 2014, 12:04:48 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #4 on: December 01, 2014, 12:04:48 AM »
    That wasn't the point Dome.

    Everyone should play the original first, otherwise how do they know what was changed?

    The reason Toshiko mentioned TLW was because everything (PRE NG+) is true to the original game with the only additions being the
    Additional scenes from WotL as well as several spelling fixes. There was no change in abilities/formulas/etc from vanilla.

    FFT+ WOULD be considered a overhaul yes. As would something like CCP, PW, KO etc. Since their primary focus is on changing the balance/skills/jobs etc, small or big, it's still not vanilla, which is what people should be experiencing first, otherwise they've nothing to compare mods to when picking the things they do/dont like about the original.

    CoP and Jot5 are not Overhauls, they are Total Conversations, in which everything about the game has been changed, including the story. Games like these should not be played unless you are familiar with the FFT Battle system.

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    Dome [Posts: 4890]
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    • [December 01, 2014, 12:06:46 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #5 on: December 01, 2014, 12:06:46 AM »
    Looks like we have different ideas on the matter...
    No big deal, I think shadrach got enough info to decide what to play :-)

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    shadrach [Posts: 3]
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    • [December 01, 2014, 08:25:35 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #6 on: December 01, 2014, 08:25:35 PM »
    Thanks for all the responses - really helpful. I'll stick with the PS1 original, based on what's been said here (and the helpful fact that I already own a copy).

    You cannot truly appreciate a patch without first playing the original work.

    I do get this point, though I don't entirely agree. I think it depends on the game and the patch. There are more than a few PC RPGs that I can think of where I'd recommend a first-time player apply certain patches, and not just bug-fixing patches. If you assume someone is likely to only play a game once - and realistically, I'll quite likely only play FFT once if it's as long as I've heard - then it makes sense to ask which version of the game is the best.

    But I appreciate that some patches are really geared towards players already familiar with the game, and I get the impression that that applies to lots of the stuff produced by the community here. I was mainly considering FFT Complete, because as far as I could tell it's a sort of best of patch, combining the original and WoTL, and not attempting to offer a different experience altogether. But I wasn't too sure, hence the thread.
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    • [December 01, 2014, 08:37:19 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 08:37:19 PM »
    Depends how you wanna do it, FFT Complete has a lot of bugs and only implements the script from WotL into the PSX version,
    which Cheetah didn't care to fix in the places that it needed it.

    The Lion War moves all the WotL events into the PSX as well as everything else added to WotL in one way or the other (Minus the multiplayer).  Scenes, new characters, other bonuses etc, are all retained (even OK/DK in one form or another) It has MUCH MUCH more to offer than FFT: Complete.
    However, it is not out just yet :P

    (Should FFT: Complete even be called FFT: Complete anymore?)

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    • [December 01, 2014, 08:52:30 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #8 on: December 01, 2014, 08:52:30 PM »
    You cannot truly appreciate a patch without first playing the original work,

    I'd like to chime in that this has been my experience as well.

    Sure, a lot of games are definitely better WITH patches and mods, but without first having gone through and playing the original, how can you begin to decide what aspects that you want to change and what is fine as it is?

    Take The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for example, a very popular game with an enthusiastic modding community. There's tens of THOUSANDS of small mods as well as complete overhauls that change every aspect of the game. A playthrough or two will really let you know what annoys you about the game, and what original elements you actually enjoy. Modding a game is like fine-tuning a guitar--perhaps only one note sounds bad. Didn't enjoy the crafting system but loved the combat? If you accidently pick a huge overhaul, it might have gotten one thing right for you but messed up the other and it could really spoil how you think of the game.

    STRICTLY game-breaking glitch fix mods/patches, OR mods that improve graphical quality (High Definition textures) are the only mods I would recommend for a first play. There aren't really any graphics mods for FF Tactics, and you can enjoy the original without running into any major bugs, so yeah, Vanilla is the way to go for the first go-round.
    shadrach [Posts: 3]
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    • [December 01, 2014, 09:15:03 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #9 on: December 01, 2014, 09:15:03 PM »
    The Lion War moves all the WotL events into the PSX as well as everything else added to WotL in one way or the other (Minus the multiplayer).  Scenes, new characters, other bonuses etc, are all retained (even OK/DK in one form or another) It has MUCH MUCH more to offer than FFT: Complete.
    However, it is not out just yet :P

    Ah, this is what I had in mind! I had assumed that this is what FFT: Complete was. I guess it's the name - Complete sounds pretty definitive.

    STRICTLY game-breaking glitch fix mods/patches, OR mods that improve graphical quality (High Definition textures) are the only mods I would recommend for a first play. There aren't really any graphics mods for FF Tactics, and you can enjoy the original without running into any major bugs, so yeah, Vanilla is the way to go for the first go-round.

    Generally I agree with the first point, but I can think of exceptions. I'd advise anyone playing STALKER, for instance, to install STALKER Complete, and I think many fans of the game would agree. Now, Complete is a graphics and fix mod, but it also changes the gameplay in pretty dramatic ways, and adds a lot of new content - it'd be fair to call it an overhaul. Obviously if you've played the game unpatched before you'll better appreciate the changes, but for a first-time player just wanting to experience the game in the best possible way, I'd still recommend they install it.

    Anyway, I'm going to start on PSX FFT tonight. Not sure whether to dig my playstation out or play it on the PSP... I don't think I've ever spent quite this long deliberating over how to play a game, without actually playing it...  :roll:
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    • [December 01, 2014, 09:31:28 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #10 on: December 01, 2014, 09:31:28 PM »
    I don't think I've ever spent quite this long deliberating over how to play a game, without actually playing it...  :roll:

    I'm glad we got to be a part of it :P
    And enjoy the best TRPG ever made!

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    Jumza [Posts: 1515]
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    • [December 01, 2014, 09:54:23 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #11 on: December 01, 2014, 09:54:23 PM »
    Anyway, I'm going to start on PSX FFT tonight. Not sure whether to dig my playstation out or play it on the PSP... I don't think I've ever spent quite this long deliberating over how to play a game, without actually playing it...  :roll:

    If I may make the decision making process just a bit longer, I'd highly suggest the Playstation (psx). I just love playing this game in front of a television, though I can't speak for others :P

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    • [December 01, 2014, 10:04:58 PM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #12 on: December 01, 2014, 10:04:58 PM »
    FFT KO is definitely a good patch to play if you're new to the series, but I would recommend playing the original untouched FFT first just to get a feel for the mechanics. KO is far from an overhaul and is very true to Vanilla- in fact, that's the entire point of it. You won't see any fancy new skills or jobs in KO. Instead, it just makes things a little more balanced and adds some enjoyable ease-of-life alterations.

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    • [December 02, 2014, 10:59:31 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 10:59:31 AM »
    Also, for what it's worth: if you play the PSX version on PSP, your only options for the image quality are 'ugly stretched' and 'uglier stretched', because FFT runs at an uncommon resolution, and POPS' 'original' setting is a lie; it's 320x240 no matter what the game actually runs at. Some people can ignore this, but it drives me up the freaking wall. Much rather play on a real PlayStation/PS2/PS3.

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    • [December 21, 2014, 12:37:37 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #14 on: December 21, 2014, 12:37:37 AM »
    Well, I already played the original several times, but I'm a new person to this hacking thing. I'm currently playing the FFT: Complete patch and I'm very much liking it. No more 'Cure II" or "Steady Sword" and the grammar is better, but what I'm really looking forward is the TLW. My question is: will it be possible to patch the same iso twice, with both TLW and Complete, so I can get WOTL script with the additional content from TLW?
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    • [December 21, 2014, 12:50:02 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #15 on: December 21, 2014, 12:50:02 AM »
    You should really have created a new topic; this one isn't relevant to your question at all.

    And no, you can't patch Complete over TLW, you'll have to edit everything in manually if that's what you want.

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    MTCruvinel [Posts: 7]
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    • [December 21, 2014, 12:53:27 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #16 on: December 21, 2014, 12:53:27 AM »
    Didn't want to waste a topic only for that, sorry.

    OK, guess I'll have some work after all. Thank you.
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    Marche [Posts: 46]
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    • [December 21, 2014, 08:02:11 AM]
    Re: For a first-time FFT player - patched version or vanilla?
    « Reply #17 on: December 21, 2014, 08:02:11 AM »
    You guys answered my question if its worth playing mods before the original.. But I already started playing the mod(FFT:Ko) and its great so far.. Ive been browsing through and Ive read that it doesnt stray from the original and is mostly a rebalancing so thats a treat.. I tend to hate things that make a game broken so playing a mod first really makes me enjoy the game more.. So i think Id stick with playing the mod. I believe that in the end we only want to play to enjoy so thats that :)
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