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Messages - Gaignun

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FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: October 09, 2015, 09:16:48 AM »
Oh right.  I forgot that Ultima ignores evasion.  In that case, putting it on par with tier 1 magic is going a little too far.  Nevertheless, to make a case that Ultima needs adjustment, I think it is best to put Ultima on terms with Chirijiraden. Both are non-elemental, BrFa-independent AoE skills of identical strength:

  • Pros: 0 CT, 0 MP, 2 AoE, shares a skillset with Murasame and Masamune
  • Cons: 0 Range, evadable

  • Pros: 5 Range, ignores evasion
  • Cons: 5 CT, 20 MP

I claim here that the cost of +5 CT is a not worth the extra range and 100% accuracy.  Spell redirection is a big problem on 5 CT AoE spells.  Perhaps we could make Ultima smart-targeting to solve this problem, as Heroebal suggests.

As for Masamune and Yell, I would rather have Haste+Regen on a one-target skill than a two-target skill.  Haste+Regen is perhaps the most effective combination of two separate buffs in Arena, and it is a large contributor to Draw Out's popularity.  Many players, including me, equip Draw Out on support units for Masamune and Masamune alone.  Shuffling its effect to Yell would help curb the ubiquity of Draw Out and help Basic Skill find a little more representation in competitive play.

If anything add more basic abilities to the class instead of unbalancing it. If there's room for two abilities when lets get a self boosting brave and faith ability. Instant, +5 br/fa sounds okay.

Unfortunately, I don't believe the AI will ever use +Br/Fa skills unless they carry other perks.  Do you have any ideas?

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: October 08, 2015, 08:41:48 AM »
I am fine with Yell getting Regen.  It is currently the lousiest way to apply Haste. Reduce its range from 3 to 2 if needs be.

I would rather improve Ultima's usability than change its purpose.  It is currently a slow, weak spell on a skillset which is, on the whole, unattractive to casters.  Its only current purpose I can think of is as an AoE nuke on 40-40 tank teams that, for some reason, wish to eschew Draw Out.  Buffing Yell would make Basic Skill, and Ultima by extension, more attractive in general (especially if Masamune loses Regen).  In addition, we could reduce the CT.  I personally would like it to drop from 5 to 3 to put it on par with tier-1 magic.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: October 02, 2015, 05:41:44 AM »
The AI is fickle with mp recovery. They'll use carbuncle correctly, but not Ether.

Just to weigh in, the AI sucks at using Carbunkle proactively, too.  It only casts Carbunkle if it has nothing else to do.

I know what you mean by taking steps back, but the fact is if we add MP to Regen, Masamune would become overpowered. Add Masamune to a caster unit (which, incidentally, Draw Out is a great skill set to have on a caster anyway) and what do you have? A caster that doesn't have to worry about MP, who has good magic, possible very strong draw outs, and HP restoration to boot which is instant and has an (admittedly small) AOE.

Yes.  If Regen adds MP regen as well, then I second the motion that Masamune should change.  Of your suggestions, I like Add: Haste + Transparent the most.

No idea how to buff the absorb spells outside of making them follow the MA*x formula most spells follow. I mean why is it based of the user's max hp?

I am fine with this.

MP poison sounds weird to me.. honestly i go Manaleak but ehh.. personal opinion.. i am not one to come up with naming conventions... on the subject of that MP-regen in my oppinion would be better Manawell or Manafill? i don't know just throwing MP onto a name does not sound right to me.. then again i like coming up with words

I think the names we're throwing around right now are temporary.  If they are actually implemented, it is probably best to come up with better names as you say.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: October 01, 2015, 09:55:33 AM »
Why can't we add MP Regen to regular Regen as it is in JOT5? In turn, we could add MP damage to the Poison status.

I would prefer to keep MP Regen separate from Regen and have the Regen skill add both statuses.  Otherwise Masamune would get even stronger.

And concerning Masamune:

Nerf Masamune to Add: Haste OR Regen (random) 100%

Masamune was like this a long time ago.  In those times, the AI would continually use Masamune until Haste was applied, resulting in wasted turns.  Accordingly, I cannot get behind this proposal.

Also, as mentioned several pages ago, I am not in favour of items that add Crystal immunity since they goes against the proven style of Arena.  Cursed Ring is one of those weird exceptions, since it carries the huge drawback of exposing its wearer to healing skills.

I am fine with the Song/Dance and 108 Gems changes, and don't yet have an opinion of the bag changes.

Edit: A quick summary of the recent status discussions:
MP Regen: Restores 1/8 of max MP per turn
MP Poison: Drains 1/8 of max MP per turn
Fury: Sets Fury to 100
Sadness: Sets Fury to 0

Obsolete status effects:
Bloodsuck, Confusion, Invite, Evil Looking, Chicken, Wall

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: September 29, 2015, 07:38:41 AM »
I would put MP Regen on P Bag, myself.  If we put it on C Bag, then C Bag would become the go-to weapon for every caster under the sun.

MP Regen would be a new status effect.  Move-MP UP would remain as-is.

I am cool with Brave equivalents of Faith and Innocent.  As an application, setting one's Brave to 100 could be used to punish teams that eschew physical attacks.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: September 26, 2015, 10:10:15 AM »
Apart from Balance and Blood Sword, Ensanguined Shield could also be used with Moonlight.

If we're going to go into ASM with Atma Weapon, one ASM hack I would really love to see is the implementation of MP Regen.  Putting MP regen on a bag or adding it to White Magic Regenerator would be fantastic for casters.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: September 14, 2015, 08:50:13 AM »
I intended Netherseers to be a generic job like any other.  Their skills would be balanced accordingly.

Introducing special jobs with abilities/stats so powerful that they must be limited to one per team would upset the metagame more than a new generic job ever would.  Teams would devolve into 1 superjob + 3 support archetypes.  This isn't bad in itself, but it doesn't conform to Arena's proven style.  Thus, I think it is best to leave superjobs to another project.

As for the implementation of additional jobs, there should be plenty of memory taken up by unused guest jobs.  These guest jobs have unique ability sets which should be swappable with new ones.  However, their RSMs are all copies of the Squire job class.  I am not sure if unique copies are assigned to each job, or if each job merely point to the Squire job's memory space.  If it is the latter, then implementing new RSMs might be a little trickier.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: September 12, 2015, 10:17:24 AM »
I agree with Shintroy.  Status protection is armor's domain.  Robe of Lords is an anomaly, I suppose.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: September 08, 2015, 03:18:46 PM »
I think that burning a target's MP is fine, a team that relies on MP should have means of restoring MP anyway. However I would agree it should just be slightly less AoE. It has the potential of dropping an entire opponent's team's MP from full to zero in a single attack. By removing 1 AoE and giving it 1 Range like Koutetsu/Masamune, something like this becomes much less likely to happen and it retains its purpose, dropping a target's MP to zero.

I agree with this.  Bizen Boat won't be so bad if we give mages a way to restore their MP from 0.  The only active skills that can be used to recover from it is Ether and Chakra.  Both are on skill sets that mages cannot use well.  The skills that mages can use well, namely Carbunkle and Spell Absorb, cannot be used because these spells themselves cost MP.  Having a skill require the very parameter it is used to restore is silly.  It's like having Cure or Moogle cost HP.

If Spell Absorb gets buffed and both Spell Absorb and Carbunkle lose their MP cost, then Bizen Boat won't be as fatal as it is now.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: September 06, 2015, 04:36:32 PM »
Will the AI even use Bizen Boat if it cannot prevent the spell from being cast?  If so, Bizen Boat will never be used until (target current MP - spell MP + 1) drops to the MP damage.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 28, 2015, 05:39:59 PM »
What formula would you suggest then? I remember back in the day the formula was SP*WP. Maybe we outta bring it back? Or perhaps add PA to one of the speed calculations? I know I'm no expert at balancing but at least I'm trying

I know. I'm just trying to help.  If you really want SP in the formula, then SP*WP is a good upper limit.  We just gotta avoid those SP*SP products. 

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 28, 2015, 03:04:03 PM »
That's still superlinear.  Raw damage is increasing by a factor of 2.92 (formula 1) and 2.25 (formula 2) for a SP increase of 1.67.  Upon factoring in turn frequency, total damage output is increasing by factors of 4.86 and 3.75, respectively.

210 damage at 15 SP (formula 1) is really good.  You'll be dealing nearly 420 damage for every one of an 8 SP unit's turn.  On the other hand, 77 damage at 9 SP (formula 2) is really bad.  This is what I mean by balancing superlinear formulas: Either the maximum damage is too good, or the minimum damage is too bad.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 28, 2015, 08:22:14 AM »
I am cool with a new Shuriken skill.  However, bear in mind that damage based on SP scales superlinearly: SP increases both damage and frequency.  What's more, SP*SP would scale faster than a second-order polynomial.  No other skill in FFTA scales nearly this fast. Accordingly, balance will require us to make the skill incredibly weak at low SP values, like Punch Art at low PA before its formula became linear.

In consideration of this, I would recommend a different formula, like WP*X.  I wonder if it is possible to make damage formula immutable so that damage is not affected by Protect, Attack UP, and Defense UP.  No skill other than Cover Fire (to an extent) ignores such modifiers, so it could fulfill a unique role.

FFT Arena / Re: 2nd FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
« on: August 25, 2015, 04:53:27 AM »

FFT Arena / Re: Mem gen issues
« on: August 24, 2015, 03:34:53 PM »
Do you have macros enabled?  I believe the Excel sheet uses macros, and those might be disabled depending on the software's past history.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 22, 2015, 07:24:02 PM »
Ah, so a female Bard and a male Dancer cannot be done?

For the sake of argument, would it be possible to swap Song with Time Magic and have both male and female Time Mages with Sing, or would Time Mages then become gender restricted?

Second, are the Bard and Dancer classes -- or perhaps their location in memory -- gender-restricted even if their skillsets are swapped to default?

I'm a little late, but I just wanted to say that I love your sense of humour, skiploom, both here and in the many other videos you've been posting over the years.  The CT5 Holy part was particularly funny.

I look forward to your next production!

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 22, 2015, 08:55:36 AM »
I was actually thinking something like PA-1*X would be great but I wasn't sure if anyone would like that suggestion. I think that looks decent on paper and in practice as it does limit the potential for huge damage output from magic and physical moves on these types of characters. I used monks in my example for a unit being able to do high damage with their punch art skillset and the netherseer skill set but monks are not the only unit that could benefit from the skillset. You can achieve almost as high PA on a squire or dancer or even male geomancers. Max PA stacked gear gives +9 PA (Lionheart, Genji Shield, Twist Headband, Power Sleeve, Bracer) which squire and geomancer can both use that particular set up and both have much better MP pools than monks with much easier access to MP boosting equips.

Oh, yeah, (PA-1)*X could work if implementable.  It's damage difference with PA*(X-1) is (PA-X) -- slightly higher in practice.

I wonder if there are any ideas for replacing breath spears with something more useful to Lancers.  Shintroy proposed a Lancet ability for Lancers several pages ago.  If that is not implementable, I wonder if an HP/MP blood spear is possible.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 21, 2015, 06:37:22 PM »
I understand your concerns.  If possible, Nether Magic would be modified by Magic Attack UP.

Most of the proposed changes there I can get behind, Gaignun. I don't care for the 8 PA and 12 MA on the female Bard/Dancer class, though. It overpowers a female scholar who is only coming in at 10 MA and isn't female Wizards only 12 MA as well? Dancerbard shouldn't have the highest MA stat on a female unit, IMO. That doesn't seem right.

The female dancerbard (dancerbeard?) inherits the current bard's PA and MA.  The male dancerbard's PA and MA naturally result from FFT's stat growth differences between gender.  These high stats make up for the generally lousy primary skillset.

Male Netherseers with 12 PA are also pretty damn strong considering their skill set. I'm not entirely sold on the netherseer skill set having the skills be PA*X, it's not hard to get units with 18-20 PA like a monk for example who would now be able to successfully cast spells coming in at 250+ damage as well as doing 250+ damage punch arts?

The male netherseer has 12 PA to avoid being outclassed by male Monks (whose PA is reduced to 12 for the same purpose).  From here, the tradeoff becomes monks for higher HP and headbands, or netherseers for higher MP and better weapons. At 12 PA, netherseers are nearly equivalent to 12 MA wizards.

The big damage is definitely a concern, especially on tanky monks.  However, there are a few limitations that modulate the situation:
  • Unless monks wear Focus Band, they will be limited by a low mana pool, relegating them to mostly Nether Wind and Nether Holy, neither of which can be boosted with anything but 108 Gems.

    For example, the highest PA a monk could achieve with the above proposals is 19.  With this equipment, he could cast Nether Wind 2 only once and Nether Holy 2 only twice before needing to use Chakra to replenish MP.  Nether Earth 2 couldn't be casted at all.  Things get quite a bit easier for the monk if his PA drops to 18; Nether Earth 2 can be casted up to three times, then twice again for every Chakra.

  • Though Nether Earth deals the most damage and is boosted with Earth Clothes, the Earth element is hard-countered by the Float movement ability.
  • For big damage, monks will need to equip (Magic) Attack UP, neither of which boosts Punch Art damage as much as Martial Arts.  Accordingly, Punch Art will be only 89% as effective (with Attack UP) or 67% as effective (with Magic Attack UP).

    And perhaps most important of all:
  • High damage requires 40 Faith, so Raise 2 is relatively unreliable (e.g., 80% success rate at 12 MA and best compatibility)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that what looks strong on paper isn't necessarily strong in practice.  Nevertheless, if the current damage output is indeed too high, then we could drop all constants by 1.  Come what may, I would prefer to keep the formula at PA*X rather than change it to the geomancy formula, since so few jobs have sufficient PA and MA to make the geomancy formula work.

Also, I forget, is UnF now UnFury or UnFaith? And is that based off of your fury/faith, or the targets fury/faith, or both?

Sorry for the confusion.  UnF means UnFaith.  I was using abbreviations of brave & faith for brevity.

FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 21, 2015, 01:07:50 PM »
Sure.  The changes are added.  I also added a few accessory and bag changes that were forgotten.

How is the AI going to deal with having both sing/dance abilities in one skill set, if we are merging them?

My educated guess is that there will be nothing wrong with the skills themselves; the only difference between Song and Dance is the targets.  There might be difficulty with the performing animation, though.  Every skillset thus far uses only one type of animation if I'm not mistaken, and Song and Dance use different animations.

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