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Messages - Gaignun

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1
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 28, 2015, 05:39:59 PM »
What formula would you suggest then? I remember back in the day the formula was SP*WP. Maybe we outta bring it back? Or perhaps add PA to one of the speed calculations? I know I'm no expert at balancing but at least I'm trying

I know. I'm just trying to help.  If you really want SP in the formula, then SP*WP is a good upper limit.  We just gotta avoid those SP*SP products. 

2
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 28, 2015, 03:04:03 PM »
That's still superlinear.  Raw damage is increasing by a factor of 2.92 (formula 1) and 2.25 (formula 2) for a SP increase of 1.67.  Upon factoring in turn frequency, total damage output is increasing by factors of 4.86 and 3.75, respectively.

210 damage at 15 SP (formula 1) is really good.  You'll be dealing nearly 420 damage for every one of an 8 SP unit's turn.  On the other hand, 77 damage at 9 SP (formula 2) is really bad.  This is what I mean by balancing superlinear formulas: Either the maximum damage is too good, or the minimum damage is too bad.

3
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 28, 2015, 08:22:14 AM »
I am cool with a new Shuriken skill.  However, bear in mind that damage based on SP scales superlinearly: SP increases both damage and frequency.  What's more, SP*SP would scale faster than a second-order polynomial.  No other skill in FFTA scales nearly this fast. Accordingly, balance will require us to make the skill incredibly weak at low SP values, like Punch Art at low PA before its formula became linear.

In consideration of this, I would recommend a different formula, like WP*X.  I wonder if it is possible to make damage formula immutable so that damage is not affected by Protect, Attack UP, and Defense UP.  No skill other than Cover Fire (to an extent) ignores such modifiers, so it could fulfill a unique role.

4
FFT Arena / Re: 2nd FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
« on: August 25, 2015, 04:53:27 AM »

5
FFT Arena / Re: Mem gen issues
« on: August 24, 2015, 03:34:53 PM »
Do you have macros enabled?  I believe the Excel sheet uses macros, and those might be disabled depending on the software's past history.

6
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 22, 2015, 07:24:02 PM »
Ah, so a female Bard and a male Dancer cannot be done?

For the sake of argument, would it be possible to swap Song with Time Magic and have both male and female Time Mages with Sing, or would Time Mages then become gender restricted?

Second, are the Bard and Dancer classes -- or perhaps their location in memory -- gender-restricted even if their skillsets are swapped to default?

7
I'm a little late, but I just wanted to say that I love your sense of humour, skiploom, both here and in the many other videos you've been posting over the years.  The CT5 Holy part was particularly funny.

I look forward to your next production!

8
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 22, 2015, 08:55:36 AM »
I was actually thinking something like PA-1*X would be great but I wasn't sure if anyone would like that suggestion. I think that looks decent on paper and in practice as it does limit the potential for huge damage output from magic and physical moves on these types of characters. I used monks in my example for a unit being able to do high damage with their punch art skillset and the netherseer skill set but monks are not the only unit that could benefit from the skillset. You can achieve almost as high PA on a squire or dancer or even male geomancers. Max PA stacked gear gives +9 PA (Lionheart, Genji Shield, Twist Headband, Power Sleeve, Bracer) which squire and geomancer can both use that particular set up and both have much better MP pools than monks with much easier access to MP boosting equips.

Oh, yeah, (PA-1)*X could work if implementable.  It's damage difference with PA*(X-1) is (PA-X) -- slightly higher in practice.

I wonder if there are any ideas for replacing breath spears with something more useful to Lancers.  Shintroy proposed a Lancet ability for Lancers several pages ago.  If that is not implementable, I wonder if an HP/MP blood spear is possible.

9
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 21, 2015, 06:37:22 PM »
I understand your concerns.  If possible, Nether Magic would be modified by Magic Attack UP.

Most of the proposed changes there I can get behind, Gaignun. I don't care for the 8 PA and 12 MA on the female Bard/Dancer class, though. It overpowers a female scholar who is only coming in at 10 MA and isn't female Wizards only 12 MA as well? Dancerbard shouldn't have the highest MA stat on a female unit, IMO. That doesn't seem right.

The female dancerbard (dancerbeard?) inherits the current bard's PA and MA.  The male dancerbard's PA and MA naturally result from FFT's stat growth differences between gender.  These high stats make up for the generally lousy primary skillset.

Male Netherseers with 12 PA are also pretty damn strong considering their skill set. I'm not entirely sold on the netherseer skill set having the skills be PA*X, it's not hard to get units with 18-20 PA like a monk for example who would now be able to successfully cast spells coming in at 250+ damage as well as doing 250+ damage punch arts?

The male netherseer has 12 PA to avoid being outclassed by male Monks (whose PA is reduced to 12 for the same purpose).  From here, the tradeoff becomes monks for higher HP and headbands, or netherseers for higher MP and better weapons. At 12 PA, netherseers are nearly equivalent to 12 MA wizards.

The big damage is definitely a concern, especially on tanky monks.  However, there are a few limitations that modulate the situation:
  • Unless monks wear Focus Band, they will be limited by a low mana pool, relegating them to mostly Nether Wind and Nether Holy, neither of which can be boosted with anything but 108 Gems.

    For example, the highest PA a monk could achieve with the above proposals is 19.  With this equipment, he could cast Nether Wind 2 only once and Nether Holy 2 only twice before needing to use Chakra to replenish MP.  Nether Earth 2 couldn't be casted at all.  Things get quite a bit easier for the monk if his PA drops to 18; Nether Earth 2 can be casted up to three times, then twice again for every Chakra.

  • Though Nether Earth deals the most damage and is boosted with Earth Clothes, the Earth element is hard-countered by the Float movement ability.
  • For big damage, monks will need to equip (Magic) Attack UP, neither of which boosts Punch Art damage as much as Martial Arts.  Accordingly, Punch Art will be only 89% as effective (with Attack UP) or 67% as effective (with Magic Attack UP).

    And perhaps most important of all:
  • High damage requires 40 Faith, so Raise 2 is relatively unreliable (e.g., 80% success rate at 12 MA and best compatibility)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that what looks strong on paper isn't necessarily strong in practice.  Nevertheless, if the current damage output is indeed too high, then we could drop all constants by 1.  Come what may, I would prefer to keep the formula at PA*X rather than change it to the geomancy formula, since so few jobs have sufficient PA and MA to make the geomancy formula work.

Also, I forget, is UnF now UnFury or UnFaith? And is that based off of your fury/faith, or the targets fury/faith, or both?

Sorry for the confusion.  UnF means UnFaith.  I was using abbreviations of brave & faith for brevity.

10
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 21, 2015, 01:07:50 PM »
Sure.  The changes are added.  I also added a few accessory and bag changes that were forgotten.

How is the AI going to deal with having both sing/dance abilities in one skill set, if we are merging them?

My educated guess is that there will be nothing wrong with the skills themselves; the only difference between Song and Dance is the targets.  There might be difficulty with the performing animation, though.  Every skillset thus far uses only one type of animation if I'm not mistaken, and Song and Dance use different animations.

11
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 21, 2015, 08:34:21 AM »
I do not know the precise origin, but the first person I heard use the term "sandbag" in the way it is used now was Archae.l (I love the word filter Xifanie), an old commentator of FFT 1.3 AI tournaments and Let's Plays.  It's a bit of a misappropriation: In English, "to sandbag" is used in the context of sports to mean "playing at less than optimum performance for selfish gain."  As an example, in the London 2012 Summer Games, several badminton teams attempted to intentionally lose games in order to improve their positioning in later rounds.  These teams were accused of "sandbagging" and were disqualified.


I am taking a break from work to summarize all of my personal proposals for 1.40 so far.  There have been a lot of ideas tossed around recently, so I'm summarizing everything here for ease of reference.  Some proposals reflect those contributed by other users; other proposals are entirely new.


That's all for now.  Back to work :<

12
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 20, 2015, 11:30:40 AM »
Speaking of books... They seem to be a pretty under used weapon class entirely. I don't think I've personally ever used a unit that focused on using a book, and can't really remember or reference any teams that have. Not proposing anything since I'm drawing a blank, but it does seem to be pretty much the least used weapon type besides maybe Cloths.

Books are hard to use.  The only class with PA and MA high enough for decent damage is scholars, and scholars, being squishy as they are, usually keep their fury at 40 and cast magic from a safe distance.  If scholars get redesigned (fingers crossed), I would like to give them more HP as well as shields so that they can use books more safely.

Cloths aren't used because Dancers aren't used, haha.  Maybe we could give both Bard/Dancers and Netherseers cloths in a future patch.

13
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 18, 2015, 04:06:09 PM »
Wait, does the Rapier inherit Shieldrender's Shield Break proc?



Following up on samurai stuff, if we drop samurai MA by 1, then Whale Whisker and Asura Knife will have equal power with optimum equipment.  From there, we can either boost samurai PA or katana WP.  My vote is for katana WP so that katana are more attractive to paladins.  If Asura Knife's WP increases from 10 to 11, then Asura Knife's WP will become marginally more powerful than Platinum Sword (at 12 WP) for Paladins -- a fair trade considering Asura Knife is blocked by Fire resistance.

Bear in mind that a male samurai with a 11 WP Asura Knife will 1HKO just about everything: Its max damage increases to 363~509.  However, given how difficult it is to field a melee samurai, and how inept this samurai will be at using his own primary skillset, I am personally OK with this.

Among poles, the only poles samurai are currently able to wield with two hands are Ivory Rod and Whale Whisker.  I suggest poles get mixed up a bit.  How does the following sound?

Iron Fan: 14 WP, 15 W-EV, Dark element
Gokuu Rod: 8 WP, 0 W-EV, 50% Cast: Petrify, 2H
Ivory Rod: 9 WP, 15 W-EV, 50% Cast: Stop, 2H
Octagon Rod: 9 WP, 15 W-EV, 50% Cast: Frog, 2H
Whale Whisker: 10 WP, 15 W-EV, Water element, 2H

These proposals make poles weapons whose procs require high faith to be effective.  The semi-reliable proc rates means that they can serve a purpose even without Two Hands, particularly on Oracles with low Fury. Gokuu Rod's Innocent proc is removed to avoid redundancy with the new Atheist Bow, and Ivory Rod's +2 MA is removed to avoid MA-stacking and to encourage players to equip other poles.  Iron Fan is made Dark elemental for a slight damage boost with Golden Hairpin/108 Gems and also because there are so few Dark elemental weapons in existence.

The above are merely suggestions.  Feel free to chime in.  I am sure there are better ideas.

14
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 18, 2015, 11:15:26 AM »
Dropping samurai MA by 1 would be a good start.  Concerning katana, we could either give samurai +1 PA or give some katana +1 WP.

I don't think all poles need to become two-handable. Unlike katana, this weapon class is shared with several other jobs.  Dropping the WP of all poles so that they are only viable when two-handed will hurt these other jobs.

@Reks: Concerning Rapier, didn't a high W-EV sword that was never used exist in a previous patch?  Anyway, I am wondering if there is some way to make Platinum Sword more appealing without increasing its WP to avoid power creep.  Could we merge Rapier and Platinum Sword into a single weapon with 12 WP and 15~20 WP?

Also for the netherseer skills, why not add in Nether Holy. Using Dark Holy's animation. I think that would work

Well, Netherseers are currently sitting with only 8 active skills right now, so I think there's room for it.  It could be something like:

Dark Holy: Dmg_UF(PA*15), Dark element, 6 Rng, 0 AoE, 5 CT, 30 MP, Evadable, Reflectable, 400 JP

Although this name isn't thematically consistent, and Nether Dark would sound like it adds the status effect.  Might anyone have any recommendations?

If Netherseers are really wanted to be a thing, and no current sprite would just quite fit, then I could make a few sketches for anyone who would want to sprite them

I have more than a few ideas in mind, so I'll give that a go sometime today or tomorrow.

That sounds great, Reks.

15
FFT Arena / Re: 2nd FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
« on: August 18, 2015, 09:38:16 AM »

16
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 18, 2015, 05:00:26 AM »
If the spears WP is lowered, this would significantly affect the jump damage.

Samurais could use poles instead of spears. It's a really underused weapon type and it wouldn't be very different from spears.

This is true.  Giving Samurai poles instead of spears would indeed cause fewer headaches with Jump.  However, there are a few points to consider:

At the moment, the highest damage a samurai (without berserk) can achieve with katana is 330~463 damage (Asura Knife, 13 PA, Attack UP, 2H).  With poles, this becomes 346~485 (Whale Whisker, 14 MA, Attack UP, 2H, 108 Gems).  Ivory Rod is a close second at 340~476 with 18 MA, Attack UP, and 2H. Although the damage between katana and poles are comparable, poles have two significant advantages over katana:
  • Poles have +1 range, so they are much easier to use in battle.
  • Poles can be boosted by MA, which also makes Draw Out more effective.
So, while giving samurai poles avoids requiring a spear rebalance, it will buff the samurai class much more than spears would, and might even make the katana class obsolete in the metagame.  Be it spears or poles, we will probably need to fine-tune things to keep everything balanced.

17
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 15, 2015, 09:10:48 PM »
Whoops.  Nether Earth 2 and Nether Holy 2 were supposed to have 5 CT.  The above post has been edited to reflect this intention.

@CT5Holy:
If we had male Netherseers, we would need a male Netherseer sprite.  Maybe we could merge the current Dancer and Bard sprites into a single class, then use entirely new male and female sprites for Netherseers.  I'm not sure of the work involved in this.

@silentkaster:
As for Jump and spears, I think that none of us can deny that the benefit of Jump is map-dependent, and even then it is something that most people can do without.  However, changing the Jump formula from SP to Jump gives players the opportunity to strongly influence the reliability of the Jump command.  One can leave the jump stat at 4 for a slow jump that is hard to land, but dodges spells, or one can max out the jump stat at 7 for a quick jump that can be used reliably to pierce evasion.  This is not possible with the current SP formula, since boosting SP to a comparable degree makes the unit broken in so many other ways. (E.g., 7 Jump would be equivalent to 17 SP.)  The new Jump formula also gives the Jump movement skills a new purpose, which is a motion I am always in favor of.

Spears' current SP bonus will be assimilated into the Lancer's base SP to ensure that Lancers will not be weakened by the change.

Equip Polearm will become less attractive as a support skill as far as SP boosting is concerned.  However, it will still have a purpose on units using the Jump command as a secondary skill, and on units who equip sticks.  All in all, the support skill takes a small hit; a price I am willing to pay for the above changes.

I am having difficulty following the proposal to give Lancers +2 SP and +2 PA if spears lose 1 SP.  Do you mean that the Lancer class needs +1 SP and +2 PA irrespective of the spear changes?

@dw6561:
I'll try commenting on a few of your changes.

Buffing Geomancers' PA/MA to 10/8 and 8/10: I think this change makes Squires less attractive on all fronts.  Squires have only 10/6 and 8/8 PA/MA, and worse, only 3 move.  The only jobs that can currently use Elemental better than Geomancers are Bards/Dancers and Scholars; three classes that may be redesigned in the next patch.  If these redesigns are implemented, Geomancers might just become the best users of Elemental.  All this aside, Geomancers are also the only class that can use Elemental well and equip a useful support skillset like White Magic or Time Magic.  These boons tend to compensate the slightly weaker Elemental damage in practice.

Samurai getting longbows and spears: I am in favour of this.  For what it's worth, samurai using longbows is historically accurate.

Sword changes: Most swords are more or less balanced with each other at the moment.  If we buff Platinum sword, we would need to adjust the other swords as well.  I must also remark that just because a particular weapon isn't being regularly used doesn't necessarily mean that it is underpowered.

Aegis Shield being too good: I personally think that the other shields are rather bad. In particular, the shields that give elemental weaknesses are hard to use on classes with no access to clothes.  Perhaps we can drop Aegis Shield's M-EV by 5~10 if need be.  Removing the +1 MA or Silence immunity would make the shield less attractive to mages, who learn Equip Shield specifically for those attributes.

0 WP bag: If any bag gets 0 WP, I suggest it be P Bag.

Oracles losing Blind: Not necessary in my opinion.  The problem with Blind isn't so much about its host skillset as it is about the AI being incapable of using it well.  One, the AI gives the Darkness status ailment a low priority, and two, the AI cannot discern which enemies rely on abilities that will be impaired by Darkness.  Unless somebody can convince me otherwise, I don't think these facts will change no matter which skillset we put Blind on.  This is why there's been a motion to add Darkness incidentally rather than especially, e.g., by having Grand Cross and Cyclops add Darkness.  This way, even if Darkness doesn't impair the target, the target at least suffers raw damage.

18
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 15, 2015, 02:08:05 PM »
So sorry, Reks!  I have the mind of a senile old man.  Or I can't get reinoe out of my thoughts.  Probably both.

As a start, Netherseers could be something like:

106 HP, 72 MP, 8 SP, 12 PA, 6 MA, 3 Move, 3 Jump, 5 C-EV
Can equip Knives, Swords, Cloth, Hat, Clothes, Robes, Accessories

Nether Wind: Dmg_UF(PA*7), Wind elemental, 5 Rng, 2 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT, 12 MP, M-Evadable, Reflectable, 100 JP
Nether Wind 2: Dmg_UF(PA*9), Wind elemental, 5 Rng, 2 AoE, 2 Vert, 5 CT, 24 MP, M-Evadable, Reflectable, 150 JP
Nether Earth: Dmg_UF(PA*9), Earth elemental, 5 Rng, 1 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT, 18 MP, M-Evadable, Reflectable, 100 JP
Nether Earth 2: Dmg_UF(PA*11), Earth elemental, 5 Rng, 1 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT 5 CT, 30 MP, M-Evadable, Reflectable, 150 JP
Nether Holy: Dmg_UF(PA*8), Holy elemental, 5 Rng, 1 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT, 6 MP, M-Evadable, Reflectable, 100 JP
Nether Holy 2: Dmg_UF(PA*10), Holy elemental, 5 Rng, 1 AoE, 2 Vert, 3 CT 5 CT, 12 MP, M-Evadable, Reflectable, 150 JP
Nether Raise: Heal_(50%), Hit_UF(PA+80)%, Cancel: Dead, 5 Rng, 3 CT, 15 MP, Reflectable, 200 JP
Oil: Hit_UF(PA+90)%, Add: Oil, 5 Rng, 2 AoE, 2 Vert, 1 CT, 6 MP, Not evadable, Reflectable, 100 JP

※ Nether Wind 2 and Nether Earth 2 may be regarded as redesigned versions of Lore's Tornado and Quake.  They may even appropriate Tornado's and Quake's animations.
※ Oil exists to get around elemental absorption on the opposing team.  You could learn only Nether Earth and Oil, then use Oil to get around enemy earth absorption at the expense of a turn.  This can also synergize with other elemental skill users on your team, like Monks or Samurai.  As for a battle animation, it could recycle Poison's with a palette swap (if that's possible), or it could appropriate one of the Bio animations following a reduction of the Bio series.

I wouldn't want to add status ailments to any of these spells in order to keep the skill set viable for elemental healing.  Low-faith teams are in sore need of AoE healing outside Draw Out, and Netherseers on Wind/Earth/Holy absorb teams can fill this role.  Wind and Earth can be absorbed by clothes wearers (squires, archers, etc.), and Holy can be absorbed by robe wearers (paladins, samurai, etc.)

I don't like Mirror Shield and Always: Reflect because it completely shuts down Yin Yang Magic.  There is no need to bother with status immunities when a single shield protects you from everything Oracles can throw at you.  I understand that Always: Reflect also interferes with White Magic support, but I am nevertheless hesitant.  On the other hand, I am perfectly fine with a Mirror Shield with Initial: Reflect and other perks, like decent P-EV and/or M-EV.

Concerning long bows, is it OK if we remove all SP bonuses?  In exchange, we can give them +1 WP or extra range.  This isn't so much to weaken long bows as it is to make 8 SP melee units viable.  Archers already have 9 base SP.  In my opinion, letting them reach 10 SP with a long-range, high-WP weapon with a status proc to boot outclasses what an 8 SP Paladin gets with shields.

I think giving Windslash Bow a percentage boost as well is OK.

Edit: The more I think about Netherseer, the more I come to like it. If the spells are PA-based, then Squires, Paladins, male Geomancers, and male Samurai can comfortably use them as well.  All of these classes can equip robes, so they can attain decent MP.  Furthermore, if the EV reaction ability is implemented, then Squires, Paladins, and Geomancers can cast the spells while maintaining their shield's functionality.  Paladin's could boost Nether Holy with Excalibur and self-heal with Chameleon Robe.  Nether Holy has a small MP cost, so Paladins won't be impaired by their low base MP.  All shield-wearers could boost Nether Wind with Kaiser Plate.  All could absorb Nether Earth with Diamond Armlet while utilizing the +1 PA to boost spell damage and protecting themselves from Slow 2.  All could equip Punch Art to effectively replenish their MP upon its depletion, or they could equip Jump and turn themselves into Lancers to pierce reflect and M-EV.  The possibilities go on and on.  In comparison to these classes, Netherseer has the most PA, but the lowest HP and has no access to shields, so it serves as the glass cannon of Nether magic, just as the wizard is the glass cannon of faith magic.

19
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
« on: August 15, 2015, 11:43:02 AM »
A few additions/responses/repetitions:

Echoing Reinoe's sword proposals
Ultima weapon: Increase proc rate from 33% to 50%Decrease WP from 10 to 9.
Moonlight: Increase proc rate from 33% to 50%Decrease WP from 9 to 8.  I'll try to crunch some numbers later to see whether these changes keep balance among the other swords.
Rapier: Extremely hesitant about +1 SP.  I would like to see SP bonuses on weapons reigned in, if anything.

Lancer/spear changes
Increase Lancer's base SP from 8 to 9.
Decrease Lancer's base Jump from 5 to 4.
Remove SP bonus from all spearsGive all spears +1 JumpGive one of those spears an additional +1 Jump.
Change Jump formula from 50/SP to 21/Jump.

Changing Nether spells to unfaith
I cannot get behind this change.  Every other spell in Black magic follows a faith formula, so if Nether spells are changed to unfaith, then black magic users will become unable to use nether spells and the other spells simultaneously and effectively.  At that point we might as well just split off Nether spells into their own skill set.

... On that thought, I think it would be really cool if we could redesign a skillset to do exactly this.  How many people would object if we shuffled the Dance skills to Bards, blew up the Dance skillset, then redesigned Dancers as PA-based unfaith mages?  We could relabel Dancer as Netherseer (after Malak) or something.

20
FFT Arena / Re: 2nd FFT Arena Single Class Challenge AI Tournament
« on: August 13, 2015, 02:43:54 PM »
I used DDR music. Specifically Dark Black Forest, Fascination Maxx, and Kind Lady. Two of them were full versions

Thanks kindly.  I knew it sounded kind of familiar.

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