If you do not learn certain abilities, you lose the ability to learn them. other abilities are added. this may have been a bug on one of my play throughs, but I remember distinctly losing the chance to learn an ability when the chapter changed because i didn't learn it before it ended, and ramza's change added new abilities.
You lose skills if you dont' learn them. I never said you lose them after you learn them. if you dont' learn some ofhis chapter 1 skills, you lose the ability to learn them in chapter 2.
That's definitely not true in vanilla. Your game is bugged or you misremembered.
1) As I've already said, there's no technical challenge in locking ninja (just have it require level 8 in itself), but Raven's decision is not poor game design. He simply threw in some disincentives against what is normally considered beneficial (such as leveling up, unlocking "advanced" jobs, or buying better gear, etc.) You may not like it that way, but it is just as valid as a more minimal approach; in fact, I think it is more interesting when everything incurs diminishing returns because it feels more realistic.
I don't have the option of taking Dante or Ramza directly into the knight class. I must take them through chemist. even though I could have snake, cloud, and link with enough support abilities this isn't needed. Everyone must learn essential skills. I think that's how you put it.
Rather than being able to make a cohesive team I've been forced, by you the developer, to make each member of my party an self-sufficient unit for the first half of the chapter. you can't possibly in good conscience say i'm free to build my team how i wish, when you force me to spend 2 or 3 levels on chemist.
How is this any different than vanilla?
"My strategy requires haste. Why does Square force me to level 2 levels of chemist and 3 levels of black mage to get time mage when I clearly need haste to beat Dorter I? Rather than being able to have a full support Pr / TM, I've been forced, by the developer, to make each member of my party deal damage for the first half of the chapter. Clearly, FFT doesn't offer me enough freedom to build my team how I wish."
Plus, your objection isn't even valid. Once you beat the beastmaster at Barius Hill, you have access to a random battle zone (with very easy enemies). It's not hard to level up there. Plus, because the enemies are very easy there, you can easily gain JP without EXP gain (by Move-JP Up).
Actually. No i'm not. I'm free to play it how I deem fit only if i'm skilled and capable of dealing with the consequences. which is a big caveat.
lol. Best response to being called lazy ever. in most cultures laughing is a sign of embarrassment. Am i reading too much into it?
That's essentially your logic at work. Please don't throw stones from glass houses.
Excluding ramza and cloud...
I was referring to vanilla. ONLY Ramza has skills that unlock by chapter (maybe the phrase "locked skills" was imprecise). The reason is obvious: only Ramza (and arguably, Alma after being possessed if you count ultima an unlockable skill) has that level of character development in FFT.
Again, character growth. character growth doesn't have to happen over years of time.
Take this: Dante shows disdain for Snakes' way of fighting. for being sneaky etc. Dante is a very in-your-face kind of character.
At the end of chatper 1, Dante maybe gets injuried or something and snake has to help him escape without drawing attention. Dante then realizes there is merit in the way snake does this. he then teaches himself to take a 'sneaky/tricky' way to combat, but in his own style. unlocking his trickster line of skills.
once chapter two begins, you could just have each character start with the base skills and job levels you expected them to have at the end of chapter 1.
Your second proposal would not work very well because everyone's playstyle is different. I think it would make more sense to determine skillsets based off of the character (so Link would have levels in Archer and Knight, Alma would have levels in white mage, etc.)
As for your first, it's an intriguing idea, but Dante already has a full skillset of 16 attacks. I don't think we can fit it in. In general, the idea of having abilities unlocked by events is interesting, but it shouldn't be overdone or the game will feel too much like FFTA2. Honestly, I find it ironic that you support the freedom "to build my team how i wish" and simultaneously want to restrict abilities through ideas like this.
Physical/mental changes? you mean character growth? >.>
I am known to be repetitive, but what I had in mind were things like...
1) A character gets his arm lopped off in the transition from Chapter I to II. Clearly, he can no longer use 2H weapons now.
2) A mage was captured in Chapter I and was tortured while in prison and is released in the beginning of Chatper II. Clearly, he is no longer able to cast advanced spells because he can no longer maintain that level of focus.
3) A man is injected with superserum and now has superpowers. Clearly, his main class now has more options and he probably has fly as an innate.
In other words, given the above changes, it is possible to justify unlocking or locking certain skills or abilities. What you call this process is irrelevant, but such "character growth" needs to pass a certain limit before we can express those changes in chapter or event-unlocked skills or abilities. This is why I don't think it should be a default feature in FFT or Jot5 (meaning it will affect most jobs and classes); most characters don't undergo such drastic changes.
So everything Cloud and Ramza, Agrias, etc. learned in Vanilla was temporary?
Again, you missed my point. "Temporary effects" would be something like using accumulate in FFT or swords dance in Pokemon. Those effects do not carry over when the battle ends. Similarly, if one "chapter" of your game is essentially a continuous state of battles or other situations where adrenaline would flow (some games are like this) and the next chapter happens after a period of calm, then many in-battle bonuses should not carryover. Obviously, FFT and Jot5 are not this type of game.
This is a turn based strategy game. Not dark souls. Stop trying to make it dark souls. It's not dark souls.
My point exactly. Because FFT is a turn-based RPG where mix-and-match is encouraged and units are supposed to get progressively better, we should not import mechanics from real time games (like event-dependent skill unlocks or resetting skills / gear in between chapters) where the above conditions do not hold. In other words, although FFT is a mix-and-match, mechanics are NOT a mix-and-match between different games and different genres.
This is my point. the team could have easily picked this route. you didn't. That's perfectly fine. but saying you can't is different then saying you won't.
It is a new game. no-one is going to question resetting to 0 in a new game. it's expected.
Finding 3 excuses can be easy, depending on how the story is written. A lot of different things are happening In Ivalice. we're seeing bleed in from FFT, FF7, and from across dimensions having Dante, Snake, and link appear in Ivalice. The balance of the world is clearly being upset. it isn't that unreasonable to see drastic changes happening to the world between chapters. maybe it starts to merge with other worlds. at this point the same reasoning can be used when you started the game. the characters are now in a 'different' world. it's no longer Ivalice. but Ivalice+Hyrule or w/e.
This is clearly where we differ. You believe that the desired mechanics should drive the story. Hence, to you, the game starts everyone at level 1 because this is a standard game mechanic. I believe the story is the supreme feature of a game. Due to the limitations of the RPG genre, time, game balance, and our understanding of the code, we must allow certain "small" deviations between mechanics and story (such as Dante being able to learn a stealth generic class like thief despite it being against his nature) or Cloud being able to use ribbons in his generic class (while as a knight, he cannot), but any "large" or "global" disruption needs to have a storyline justification. Hence, to me, the game starts everyone at level 1 because Ramza hasn't fought in two years and everyone else was warped into the world by a process that took their weapons and sense of normality, but that reason isn't something you can repeat three times (because sentient beings adjust to their surroundings). IN fact, I'd find it contrived even if three different reasons were given for the next three chapter breaks if the result of each of them is the same kind of equipment / skill reset (because the probability of getting the same unlucky result from three different processes is low). I'm sure a good enough storywriter can certainly string together a plot so these things happen more "naturally", but a good writer would not insist on it happening either. In other words, if this was a movie rather than a video game, the plot should be just as fluid and not have spots where it only makes "sense" in a video game.
As it stands, by the end of chapter 1 you will be about level 26. between 20 and 30 for sure. over 30 seems to high based on monster difficulty. below 20 seems to low based on other encounters.
I think you're overgeneralizing from your own personal experience. For the record, my units were 5 levels lower than yours when I beat Chapter I, and I'm sure Raven can probably do it at Level 18. It all depends on how much care you put into analyzing the enemy.
so I should spend my time moving and not performing actions for hours to learn abilities without raising my level? >.>;; really?
With the exception of snake's base class, everyone else will be limited to 3-4 squares per turn. meaning you can gain 3-4 more jp per action. that's assuming you ALWAYS move the maximum amount per character turn. which more often than not, is not a good idea. but you will also lose any tactical advantage to jump+1 or jump+2 which you can get early access to. In a game like this, mobility is important.
move JP isn't a bad ability. but after a while, taking it over something else is a bad tactical decision.
That's up to you, but I don't use Move-JP as a grinding tool (though it's tempting while Snake is invisible). For me, it's mostly a supplement so I require only 70-80% the EXP to get the same amount of JP. I find that mobility isn't so good early game when I don't have 1HKOs and the enemy easily outnumbers or outspeeds me. The key to not dying in the early fights is CT conservation and knowing the CT of your units when enemies get turns. Remember, first strike KOs don't have to come from superior speed or mobility, it can also come from AI stupidity: let them walk into your attack range (and keep your units out of theirs when it is their turn).
For me, this is one thing that made sweegy woods difficult. I lacked the utility gained from knight, priest, wizard.
Rather than being able to make a cohesive team I've been forced, by you the developer, to make each member of my party an self-sufficient unit for the first half of the chapter.
Maybe your playstyle is different than mine, but I've always favored a team of self-sufficient hybrids over specialized units. I can say that Raven's mechanics fit my playstyle quite well. I will also, say, however, that my Arena teams do not match this playstyle (my best teams are either pure offense or pure defense). It pays to adapt to the game.
No. the game would not be more incomplete, but more complete. Raven has a vision in his head. he expects you to have progressed your character a certain way. (this is obvious because of Chemist)
It's not uncommon at all for games to limit your progress based on chapter. In persona, you can only fuse certain persona at certain stages of the game, because more powerful ones aren't available. they only exist at a later stage of the game. this is the same principle.
but it is fundamentally the same system. it follows the same rules. the only thing that has changes is the scaling and the rate at which you can gain JP.
1) Small tweaks to the rules can have large effects. Archael's 1.3 was appropriately termed FFT: Item or FFT: Hardmode because he made two vital changes (PD can be used by level 1 enemies and all enemy units scale to player level). These two changes mean 1.3's strategy is different enough from vanilla that many veteran players could not adjust. I do not doubt Jot5 does not have similarly groundbreaking mechanics.
2) If you admit Jot5, 1.3, and vanilla FFT are fundamentally the same system with the same rules, and you want Jot5 to be more "complete" (i.e. more perfectly fitting the system it is contained in), then aren't you contradicting yourself by proposing mechanics from Persona?
3) I can't speak for Raven, but as a modder, I would like to think "completion" means resembling a final product. IN Jot5's case, the final product is a full FFT mod that spans four chapters. If the final product is to contain ninja in Chapter IV, then the patch is more complete if the Chapter I release has ninja than if it does not. In other words, the form of the game's release (piecemeal) should not affect the content (the available classes).
Remember, the modder's intent need not be formalized as law (or hard-coding). A disincentive works just as well.