Final Fantasy Hacktics

Projects => New Project Ideas => Topic started by: ShadowSkyle on May 20, 2012, 02:30:52 AM

Title: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 20, 2012, 02:30:52 AM
Hello, everyone! After playing around with the various FFT editors (a lot!) I have decided upon making a community based mod (yes, I'm aware this has been attempted/done before. Let's see what results this time around!) I've now completed 3 mods. The first was up for download for a while, but was very buggy and ultimately I decided to stop the patch as it got out of hand. Second patch was much smaller, and worked like a charm, but wasn't worth uploading. Third was much bigger, but was a more focused patch for myself. I used it to achieve a game I wanted, as well as to learn as much as I could about the editors. Now I'm ready to move on.

There will be a series of polls and contests to follow this patch, so make sure you keep your eyes open for the latest threads about this patch! At the moment, this is starting from a completely vanilla FFT, and nearly everything done to the mod will be through community voting and contests!!

Completed:

Job Submissions
Difficulty Poll
Community Mod Jobs
Story Direction Poll
Initial Timeline Poll
Timeline Poll
Initial Main Character Poll
Original Plot Submissions
Initial Plot Poll
Revised Plot Submissions
Plot Poll
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dome on May 20, 2012, 05:50:18 PM
Good luck. And I seriously mean it, you will need plenty

Here is my entry
Job: Necromancer
High tier job (Replaces calculator) can heal/buff/create undead and use Dark elemental spells
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 22, 2012, 03:33:41 AM
Well, this is depressing. Only one person is interested in this? Come on people! Now is the time to get your character submitted into the mod! As no one else is posting, I'll fill in one of my own potential classes:

Job Name: Cleric
Job Purpose: Melee/Magic/Support/Tank
Job Description: Religious unit who supports his allies in the midst of battle.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Faith
Skillset Description: Calls upon the power of the gods to administer first aid and magical enhancements to allies.
Ability Types: Weak-Moderate Healing/Buff Spells
Additional Info: Wears armor despite being a casting-based unit. High MP/Moderate-Low MA (Shouldn't be needed for much other than Healing spells, and can always deck the unit out for MA if desired).
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Reks on May 22, 2012, 03:37:40 AM
Will make one tomorrow, then edit this post over with it. Too tired atm, but interesting concept.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Elric on May 22, 2012, 03:39:39 AM
With the thread of mods failing before they even start, you will definitely need to do some more work first, people need to SEE or PLAY something before they want to commit to it.
Community Mods are hard to run for not only this reason but also due to the fact that info will constantly be changing.

You just need to develop more on your own before people start becoming interested in it.

FYI, joining the #FFH Chat on IRC might help you out a bit as well.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 22, 2012, 07:31:41 AM
Elric, I hope you're wrong about that. Being that the outline of the game's changes are all based on community input, it wouldn't be possible to show any changes before the first collaboration. There will be constantly posted changes as this patch progresses, but it just isn't reasonable to make said changes without hearing what everyone wants, first.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Elric on May 23, 2012, 05:27:28 AM
Elric, I hope you're wrong about that. Being that the outline of the game's changes are all based on community input, it wouldn't be possible to show any changes before the first collaboration. There will be constantly posted changes as this patch progresses, but it just isn't reasonable to make said changes without hearing what everyone wants, first.

I hope I am as well, because I've wanted to be part of a community patch since i joined FFH

Job Name:              Breeder
Job Purpose:           Support
Job Description:       A nomad who is often seen traveling with groups of monsters, seem to be accepted by monsters as their alpha
Gender Availability:   Both
Skillset Name:          Monster Lore
Skillset Description:  Uses a unfamiliar form of speech and hand signals to boost the ability of surrounding monsters
Ability Types:          This character would ideally use mediator type moves to buff/heal monsters
Additional Info:        Innate: Monster Skill
                            Innate: Monster Talk
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 23, 2012, 02:08:49 PM
This one was emailed to me. Figure I'll post it so everyone can see:

Job Name: Arcane Archer
Job Purpose: Ranged/Magic/Harassment
Job Description: An archer who enchants her arrows with magic to disable enemies.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Arcanum
Skillset Description: Magically enchanted strikes used to harass enemies.
Ability Types: Weapon ranged attacks that inflict status effects.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on May 24, 2012, 09:41:08 PM
Job Name: Spellblade
Job Purpose: Skirmisher (Melee/Ranged/Magic/Damage)
Job Description: Warrior dedicated to both spell and sword, slays opponents quickly and without regard for personal safety
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Blade Magic(ks)
Skillset Description: Channel magic(k) through blades to devastate foes quickly.
Ability Types: High damage single target, Area 1, and Linear attack spells of varying ranges and self buffs.
Additional Info: This unit wears clothes and robes and uses daggers, swords, and knight swords. She has self buffs that bestow things like shell, reflect, and haste, but nothing that increases physical durability like defend and protect. It has high Speed and MA, and above average MP, but low PA and HP. She should skirmish between ranged combat and melee combat by switching between single target ranged spells that deal moderate damage and close ranged spells that have Area or do lots of damage.

Her big attacks encourage her to get into melee to slay vulnerable targets or to eliminate big threats but her low hit points encourage tactical usage. She should have several different elemental types to choose from.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on May 29, 2012, 11:28:33 PM
Well, I'm not exactly an active member of the community, but if you're not getting many other contributions, I may as well throw my own ideas into the mix. I'll just give you one for right now.

Job Name: Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Support/Tank
Job Description: Sworn to fulfill their oath, no matter the cost.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Arts of War
Skillset Description: Knight Job command. Protect allies or destroy enemies at the cost of one's own health.
Ability Types: Aside from status breaks the Knight should also have abilities that make use of the Knight's large supply of HP, such as Wish or Darkside (like wish but with damage instead of healing) or things like White Wind and Minus Strike if possible.
Additional Info: This could be a special class for Lavian and Alicia, or it could be split between them so one has the offensive abilities and the other has the defensive abilities.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 30, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
So while waiting for this thread to get more active (Have a few promises from others to post later this week), I've been toying around with another patch which is almost complete. The main concept I've been messing around with is the Necromancer. It is an interesting concept, and the ASM I'm using and the abilities themselves just need to be playtested and tweaked for appropriate power.

@Qumar I always did think the Knight needed an altered skillset, however, the breaks were already a really nasty secondary when taken in consideration with guns and dual wielding. Putting an altered skillset on Lavian and Alicia might be fun, though. Would certainly make them more viable.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Jumza on May 30, 2012, 02:27:21 AM
Job Name: Pacifist
Job Purpose: Support to the max!
Job Description: One who does not fight in battle, but rather chooses to wield power to aid allies.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Peacemaking or Pacifism
Skillset Description: Power used by those who do not fight, it cannot be used for harming others. (though it can help your allies harm others XD)
Ability Types: Ability's much like the priests, wall, protect, shell, a variation of cure which does not harm the undead ( giving them good PA can allow the chackra formula to be used here) and other special healing abilities that are not holy based, the pacifist isn't always a believer in god, they just don't want to hurt people.
Additional Info: In the job tab of the FFTP un-check all boxes that have anything to do with weapons (INCLUDING the box next to the blank, therefore making the attack command for this job useless), just give them really powerful supporting ability.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on May 30, 2012, 04:29:12 AM
This version of the knight isn't intended to have equipment breaks, and the status breaks could easily be changed into something like Zalbaag's ruin abilities that don't take weapon range into account (or they could just require a sword to be equipped like all the other knight class abilities.)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 30, 2012, 11:39:59 AM
@Jumza: The Chakra formula wouldn't work too well, due to the fact that putting his PA up high would allow you to throw martial arts on him and a Monk's backup abilities, making him really powerful with things such as Wave Fist, while also giving him a more powerful version of Chakra.

The other issus with the class is that we can't make his skills too powerful, or they'll become broken as a secondary. But I will play around with this concept and see what we can do about it!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Jumza on May 30, 2012, 08:35:37 PM
How'd i forget that? Good points, its too bad we cant make it so that this job is sorta like mimes so they cant equip any R/S/M or use it as a secondary skill >.<.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: CONMAN on May 30, 2012, 09:05:34 PM
Not possible at the moment(or atleast not very good): Shapeshifter (possible summoner replacement)

Transforms into monsters for special attacks.  It's possible to make skills that cause a unit to disapear before the spell effect is played out.  For example:

Unit "Shifts" into salamander (or midgar swarm) effect.  or other believable summon effects.  I have never looked into editing the effect spells- But I imagine it might be possible to find one that would be suitable to insert a standard monster frame into and look okay...

Imagine the dragon transformations from Breath of Fire 2.  .....keep dreaming Hacktics!!!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Eternal on May 30, 2012, 11:19:45 PM
Ridiculously odd and random idea.

Judge
Equip: Swords, Shields, Robes, Heavy Armor

Skillset Name: Judgement

-Recommended: Fire (Add: Oil on all units, persevere)
-Forbidden: Speaking (Add: Silence on all units, persevere)
-Forbidden: Moving (Add: Immobilize on all units, persevere)
-Forbidden: Healing (Add: Undead on all units, persevere)
-Forbidden: HP < 100% (Heals all units, persevere)
-Recommended: HP < 100% (Damages all units, persevere)
-Recommended: Magic (Protect/Wall on all units, persevere)
-Recommended: Melee Attacks (Shell/Reflect on all units, persevere)
-Antilaw (Cancel: Performing[Persevering])
-Red Card (Add: Immobilize/Disable)

Just a really crazy concept I had months back. Totally unbalanced, but meh.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on May 31, 2012, 12:28:22 AM
Judge concept is cool. Might be able to play with it a bit to make it viable. Shapeshifter, unfortunately, I don't think anyone's figured out how to do it (I think I read a concept about it once that never panned out).
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on June 05, 2012, 01:11:38 AM
It seems pretty broken compared to normal classes, but as a replacement class for Cid's Holy Swordsman class it might be just right. I also have a class that would probably need to go to somebody like Orlandu or Beowulf, so I guess I should go ahead and post that one now.

Job Name: Treasure Hunter
Job Purpose: Melee/Ranged/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Adventurer who battles the forces of darkness using a collection of legendary weapons.
Ability Types: Charge, but with a lower CT than the core archer has. This class should also have Change Equipment innate.
Additional Info: There should be a special weapon type only this class can use which would actually be a collection of various different types of weapons, each specialized for a different purpose. All of the weapons in its collection will have different attributes (auto-buffs and debuffs, resistances and weaknesses, and various other properties) that make them more useful in some situations than others, encouraging the player to make use of the Change Equipment skill.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 05, 2012, 02:22:19 AM
Interesting idea, Qumon, but I'm not sure that would be easily implemented. In FFTPatcher, the Charge abilities have their own format, different from other abilities. I don't think there's any free spaces to create a new set of Charge skills. Less of an issue with the weapons, but I'd still have to remove weapons to insert those ones.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on June 05, 2012, 10:52:41 PM
Why would we need a new set of charge skills? I assume the archer is going to be replaced with something else anyway, so couldn't we just give the archer's old skill set to the Treasure Hunter? Not that it really matters. The only reason I gave the class a skill set at all was because the game already had one that relied so heavily on the equipped weapon.

And the fact that the arsenal would need to replace existing items was part of the reason this class is only intended for late game use. If the Ninja gets removed, that frees up six items for use in the Treasure Hunter's arsenal, which is actually a pretty decent selection.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Elric on June 05, 2012, 11:18:02 PM
Interesting idea, Qumon, but I'm not sure that would be easily implemented. In FFTPatcher, the Charge abilities have their own format, different from other abilities.
*Cough* Existing ASM *Cough*
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 25, 2012, 04:33:59 AM
Suggestions:
1) Give Knight's skillset to Archer.  This was already proven to be the most lethal breaking combination, but breaks are mostly underwhelming.
2) Give Squire the Charge abilities.  Since this skillset was already underwhelming on Archer, give squire access to all weapons equips and balanced stats [to use them].
3) Turn monster poaching into souls and turn draw out into Animists that consume souls to deal AoE damage.  Kind of like CCP's torero, but much weaker in effects.

Quote
Animist:
EQ: Bag, Knife, Instrument, Clothes, Hat, Accesories
INNATE: Secret Hunt

Feathery Soul      Poach from Chocobo/Juravis, Draw Out Radius +Reflect AND Regen
Demonic Soul       Poach from Skeleton/Ghost, Draw Out Radius +Undead
Draconic Soul      Poach from Dragon/Tiamat, Draw Out Radius, MA * 10 Damage
Horned Soul        Poach from Minotaur/Behemoth, Draw Out Radius, Enemies Only, Fire Elemental, MA * 8 Damage
Plain Soul         Poach from Goblin/Cuar, Draw Out Radius, Enemies Only, Nature Elmental, MA * 8 Damage
Sapient Soul       Poach from Squidlarken/Dryad, Draw Out Radius (include Self), MA * 10 Healing
Abomination Soul   Poach from Murbol/Floatiball, Draw out Radius, +Blind
Bomb Soul          Poach from Bombs [rare], Draw Out Radius, Kill Self, Deal maxHP - curHP DMG to units in range
Pig Soul           Poach from Uribo, Draw Out Radius, MA * 5 MP Healing
Lucavi Soul        Drop from Lucavi, Draw Out Radius, Enemies Only, +Death Sentence

Auto Potion        Use a potion and heal for Max{LVL, 30} HP, IF NONE, FAIL
Secret Hunt

Obviously, as part and parcel to this suggestion, I suggest fusing water and ice element.  They're virtually the same thing.  We can then add in a nature element, which we can say is the element of spells like hell ivy or bio.
This also removes Katanas as a class of useable weapons.

My advice to people is to not stint their imaginations.
1) Limiting classes strictly to support or offense or hybrid seems to go against the idea of FFT, which gave healing spells to summoners, offense to priests, guns to chemists, and so on.  If anything, everything should be a hybrid.
2) Most mechanics that don't currently exist I can make by ASM.  Trust me, I'm willing to fully support this project.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 25, 2012, 06:37:56 AM
Very nice ideas, and I appreciate the support and offer to help. I'll add those ideas to the collection.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 25, 2012, 07:02:37 AM
Technically, it's more like Onion Knight with Charge since the intent is to let squires equip everything.

Also, as a community vote, do we want a fun patch?  One where we change the story and make new events?  A difficulty patch?  A new features patch?  Or is all this still up for decision after we sort out jobs?

To sort out the community vote (in the future) over patch priorities, I think we should also list what kind of things we'd like to see in a patch and vote by giving priority lists.  Some things off the top of my head that people want out of patches are:
Fun
Difficulty
Re-balance
New Events/Plot
New Mechanics
Sticking to FF(T) Canon/FF(T) characters
Hosting (AI) tournaments with this patch

Feel free to add to this list.  Obviously, not all of the options are mutually exclusive, but they're not all simultaneously possible as well.
The only reason why I bring this up is because FFH has been traditionally split between many different factions favoring different priorities in patches.  If we want a truly communal patch, we'll need to determine these priorities to reduce arguments and infighting.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on June 25, 2012, 04:05:12 PM
Job Name: Ranger
Job Purpose: Versatile Combatant but lacking in selection: unarmed, bows, crossbows, & knives.  May Dual-Wield with knives or fists.  Known for solid damage output against specific single targets but struggles with crowd control and lacks staying power.  Reasonably agile.  Melee & Ranged, Damage and light Harassment, but no Support or Tank function.  Innate Poach, Dual-Wield, and Reequip.

Job Description: A skillful wanderer of the wilds who tracks down and slays any creature in any environment.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Stalk
Skillset Description: Ranger Class Command.  Strikes down prey with murderous precision and mundane savvy.
Ability Types: "As Weapon" instant Attack Modifications similar to Art of War/Battle Skill and Snipe/Aimed Shot.  This will require a couple things.  First, you have to be able to flag certain characters and monsters as specific creatures, or being magical, and that this may extend to Classes as well.  Second, the skills will only target these characters.  There will also be a few that work on anybody, just to be nice about it.

Envenom - Adds Poison to Target.
Fiery Hit - Modifies hit into a Fire Affinity attack (often to make fire arrows or to ignite blades); supplants a weapon's other effects.
Goblin Killer - Attempts to score a lethal blow against a Goblin-Type enemy, killing them on success.
Magislayer - Attempts to score a crippling blow against any magic user, which includes certain monsters and many Classes such as the Black Mage or Summoner.  Character must be flagged as "Magic" as part of their description like how monsters may be flagged as Draconic or Undead.  This will add damage, but does not dish out instant kills.
Pin Down - Surgically pin an opponent to a position, adding CT 0.  Always hits.  Should be reapplied regularly to hold sucker in position so others can help kill it.  Also cancels Preparation conditions (Defend, Perform, Charge/Cast).
Dragontear - Surgically damage dragons.  May also affect Dragoon/Lancers (so if Reis has her Dragonkin abilities, it'll affect them), severing the sanctity of the Order of Dragon's covenant with the proud beasts.
Exorcism - While Seal Evil and Raise 2/Arise are good, this delivers a powerful chastisement upon an Undead creature that adds one of a list of debilitating status effects that would conceivably affect their ability to fight back (so no Poison or Faith, since these don't appear to affect them so much).
Kill Horror - Deal better damage against Lovecraftian Horrors such as Illithids (the fucking Pisco Demons), Marlboroughs and even late-game freaks like Archaic, Ultimate, and Reaver-type opponents.  This could also overlap with Eye Beasts, assuming they are also flagged as magical.  But this is for those times when you want the creature to die faster.

Additional Info: The Ranger is an offshoot or hybrid of the Ninja and Archer respectively.  Instead of Throw or Charge/Aim, a new set of abilities comes into place.  Rangers, in Dungeons & Dragons, habitually possess either Dual-Wield or Archery combat mastery, and in the MMO, they get both.  They also acquire camouflage so adding Sunken State to the list of Reaction Abilities seems in good order.  However, you can chuck a few things here and there.  I mean, here's what a Ranger looks like, overall:

Equip Dagger, Bow, Crossbow, Hat, Outfit, all Accessories; cannot equip shields like the Archer did while using Crossbows
Innate Dual-Wield (optional), Poach
Reaction Abilities: Sunken State, Adrenaline, Archer's Bane
Support Abilities: Equip Crossbow, Concentrate, Poach, Train (cannot teach Dual-Wield if Dual-Wield is featured)
Movement Abilities: Probably some low-to-mid grade number like Jump + 2 or Move + 2, or Swim, or Terrain-Oriented ones like Any Ground & Any Weather (modified or hybridized with other effects so as to be more attractive to players).

In all, this one's likely to get thrown out without heavy modification, but feel free to switch things around if you like.  If having to flag creatures as a certain type seems too daunting, it would be best to use something else in its place, only no Aim/Charge.  That just gets dull.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 25, 2012, 05:19:40 PM
@formerdeathcorps: I think that will be the first poll we take, seeing where everyone wants the patch to go.

@Neophyte Ronin: I know I've seen several posts in the past about reasons against innate poaching, and flagging each monster and class may or may not be viable. We'll see if the class makes it into the mod and tackle the concept then!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 25, 2012, 07:57:16 PM
Here's another class edit.

Quote
Geomancer
EQ: Sword, Axe, Instrument, Shield, Clothes, Robe, Hat, Accessories
INNATE: Move-in Water, Move-on Lava

Pitfall       Earth Elemental, +19% Don't Move
Water Ball    Water Elemental, +19% Frog
Hell Ivy      Nature Elemental, +19% Poison AND Blind
Carve Model   Earth Elemental, does more damage than the others
Local Quake   Earth Elemental, +19% Slow
Kamaitachi    Wind Elemental, +50% Cancel: Protect, Shell, Reflect
Demon Fire    Fire Elemental, +19% Oil
Quicksand     Water Elemental, +19% Stop
Sand Storm    Earth Elemental, +19% Sleep
Blizzard      Water Elemental, +19% Addle
Gusty Wind    Wind Elemental, +19% Don't Act
Lava Ball     Fire Elemental, +19% Dead

Counter Flood
Move-in Water
Move-on Lava

Again, we assume the fusion of water and ice elemental as well as the conversion of silence to addle (which effectively means making silence affect every skill).
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on June 25, 2012, 09:23:19 PM
Would it be a bad idea to scrap the Oracle and give renamed versions of its spells to the Black Mage and White Mage to make them more versatile? The White Mage isn't in any particular need for greater versatility, so I don't care too much about giving it more spells, but the Black Mage's focus on doing damage and almost nothing else makes the move set easily replaceable by any other class that has good damage output.

The Black Mage could take Blind, Osmose, Drain, Sleep, and Break. The White Mage could take Silence, Berserk, Confuse, and Dispel. You could also give Disable to the Time Mage if it still exists in this hack.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 26, 2012, 02:25:15 AM
While we're at it, can we please remove Chemist as a class?  It should not require JP to learn how to open a corked bottle and drink the contents.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 26, 2012, 03:44:21 AM
Lol. Very true. However, what do we do with the item skillset? Without it, you can't use items. With it, you can't add anything to the class (as items require opening the item inventory, limiting the skillset to items only)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Azamuth on June 26, 2012, 04:23:42 AM
I'm quite new in creating these, but I thought up this class for my own mod, but for my current level of skill (which is 0) it is just not plausible. At first I wanted to make one for each sign, but then I didn't know if I could make each class specific for that Zodiac Sign..*sigh* anyways, hope it's a good one. :mrgreen:

Job Name: Zodiac Knight
Job Purpose: Damage/Tank
Job Description: A Knight who was taught some of the abilities of the mythical "Zodiac Braves".
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Zodiac/Zodiark(So the class name and Skillset are not THAT alike)
Skillset Description: Enables the use of the Zodiac Braves' Abilities.
Ability Types: I imagine it would be something like Beowulf's abilities, but with elemental for the damages. Ex: Aquarius would be water Elemental, while Pisces non-elemental but based on MA/Faith.
Additional Info: Since they made up the Serpentarius Sign, there could be something of an Ultimate skill, only learnable after learning the others, or after a certain point in the game. The Zodiac Knight should also have the ability to buff his own defense, or mark himself as a target, so that the other members may heal/prepare themselves.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Fosil on June 26, 2012, 06:27:52 AM
I was honestly toying with the idea of making a mod, myself. However, it is a huge undertaking--not to mention time investment. My idea was to continue the story after The War of the Lions--but around ~20 years later. I have a skeleton of the story ready if shown interest.

As for the jobs I was envisioning, I was inspired by the Khamja, whose members include the likes of Rapha & Marach, Illua & Ewen among others. (From FFWiki: "The clan is considered incredibly powerful and dangerous, having access to spells, weapons, and Job classes that other clans cannot obtain.")

My submission:
Job name: Harbinger
Job purpose: Support/Harassment
Job description: Heralds of astrology who warp the dimensions of time and space. Uses Astrology to manipulate fate and sway the course of battle.
Genders: Both
Skillset Name: Astrology
Skillset Description: Harbinger job command. This augur toys with the laws of the universe.
Ability Types: (General 'Time Magic' spells, but re-purposed and re-envisioned, with more emphasis on "space" or placement.)
Here is a small sample of possible abilities: (Speed/MP values withheld for the sake of avoiding complexity.)

Astral Flux - ~100 JP - Hastens the passage of time of those in line with the stars. (Add: Haste. Effects all nearby units in range of 1.)
Phase Grip - ~250 JP - Halts the passage of time with the pulse of a star, severing the target from time's flow. (Add: Stop. Effects only one unit within a range of 3.
Dimensional Rift - ~450 JP - Tears holes in the fabric of time. Reduces the HP of units in a large area by 33%. (Range of 2, AoE Effect range of 2 (always effects caster), vertical range of 3)
Time Reversal - ~550 JP - Rewind the stars, balancing time and even reversing death itself. (Cancels all: Dead, Haste, Slow. Centered on caster, radius of 1.)
Celestial Stasis - ~650 JP - Halt the course of enemies' guardian stars, rendering them, and yourself, completely unable to act. (Inflicts any: Stop, Don't Act, Don't Move. Centered on caster, radius of 3 or 4, infinite vertical tolerance.)
Parallel Balance - Hidden ability/Auto-Learned/0 JP - Warps time and space to inflict damage commensurate with the damage the user has endured. (Requires Critical status on caster. Range of 5. Effect of 1.)
Temporal Boon - Hidden ability/Auto-Learned/0 JP - Voids your existence while gifting a second chance to another. (Cancel: Stop, Sleep, Petrify; Adds: Quick, Haste. Requires Critical or Doom status on caster & kills caster after casting. Range of ~5 (or infinite range?))
SUPPORT
Alacrity (Short Charge) - Halves CT of Spells and Abilities

Additional Info: (Inspired by the "Nightshade" class of FFTA.) As such, and with a job name such as 'Harbinger', I would style them as sword/katana-bearing dimensional warriors that can equip robes for added flavor.)

As for its abilities, I was trying to go for inter-skill conflict. (Abilities should conflict with one another.) However... use 'Dimensional Rift' three times, and then use 'Parallel Balance' to great effect?

On the grand scale, I figure each job's skillset will have a couple of auto-learned/invisible abilities that are only useable when Critical/Doomed respectively. (Doom wouldn't be inflictable by the player.)

Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on June 26, 2012, 08:05:26 AM
I know there's ASM to give every unit the item command (though I'm pretty sure enemies don't actually make use of it.) If you could combine that ASM with some method of making the item command mastered by default then every player-controlled unit would have access to items.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 26, 2012, 02:21:16 PM
Shadow, we technically have 16 submissions: you forgot to add the Geomancer of mine.

Quman, the problem with that ASM (even after I removed the bugs) is that a unit would learn three skillsets.  Besides the obvious balance problems, if the primary and secondary skillsets both have 16 attacks, the AI may not learn all the skills in all three skillsets.

I think the best idea may be to combine the THROW and ITEM skillsets.  In other words, something like this:

Quote
Juggler
EQ: Knife, Sword, Bag, Clothes, Hat, Accessories
INNATE: Throw Item

Knife
Shuriken 
Ball
Axe
Spear
Item

Throw Item

This would require some ASM work, but the effects include:
1) Throwing anything would always have 1 range, unless you have throw item, which turns 1 range into 4.
2) Throwing items now follow line of sight, meaning it is now possible to heal unintended targets.  It would no longer be possible to heal units separated from the healer by large height differences.  An example of the latter means that if you are at Zirekile, attempts to use PD on the unit directly above you on the bridge will fail.
3) There should exist specially designated throwing weapons [i.e. throwing axe, javelin, weighted dagger] and we can even add special effects to throw (like +Critical, +Range, Proc: Spell) and so on if we do some more ASM hacking.

Consequences:
Juggler would probably have to be a basic class because it knows Throw: Item.  This may mean that we would need three basic classes rather than two.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 26, 2012, 03:08:12 PM
Another class to edit with ASM:

Quote
Lancer
EQ: Spear, Axe, Shield, Armor, Robe, Helm, Accessories
INNATE: JUMP 1v1

Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)

Equip Spear
Equip Armor

The reasons for this edit is to make the player buy all the lancer skills (rather than just Level Jump and Vertical Jump 8).  I admit this skillset is still a bit boring, but lancer's JUMP is a very strong ability between unevadeability [outside of blade grasp], the 1.5x spear damage boost, 8 Range (at vertical tolerance 8), and the invincibility while jumping.  In fact, this edit would make lancer a decent early game class, and if we were going for a balance patch, we could even remove the 1.5x damage boost at no real harm to lancer [who still has the best charged ability in the game].
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 26, 2012, 05:45:03 PM
I like the idea of mixing throw/item. Gives both a little more viability. And it could easily be made a third basic class. We would just branch out in three different ways: Physical, Magic, and Other (support, etc. Whatever it winds up being called)

I also really like altering the jump skill to make all of them required. Always thought it should have been that way to begin with.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 26, 2012, 08:12:15 PM
Two more ideas:

Performer (fuse bard and dancer's skillsets into one; male uses bard sprite, female uses dancer sprite)

If we're making a balance patch and keeping calculator, here are two mutually exclusive suggestions:
Quote
Calculator:
EQ: Stick, Rod, Staff, Robes, Clothes, Hats, Accessories

CT3 (If you choose CT, your second parameter is automatically 3)
LevelPrime (If you choose Level, your second parameter is automatically Prime)
Height5 (If you choose Height, your second parameter is automatically 5)
EXP4 (If you choose EXP, your second parameter is automatically 4)

Calculable Spells:
The entire vanilla skillset except Holy, Flare, Raise2, Foxbird, Petrify, Stop, Frog, Sleep, Don't Act, Demi2

Quote
Red Mage:
EQ: Sword, Knife, Shield, Robes, Clothes, Hats, Accessories

Level
EXP
Height
Prime
5
4

Calculable Spells:
Fire
Ice
Bolt
Cure
Regen
Reraise
Dispel Magic
Esuna
Pray Faith  (needs a formula not dependent on faith)
Doubt Faith (needs a formula not dependent on faith)
Zombie
Poison
Blind
Don't Move
Reflect
Float
Demi / Life Drain (Either is fine.)

I personally prefer Red Mage to Calculator (because there isn't a sword-mage in FFT and I like hybrids) and it's more interesting to use.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 26, 2012, 08:44:40 PM
To keep the class viable, there will likely need to be some more spells added, but that's a simple trial and error process.


I'm about to start making polls, but I don't want to spam this forum with polls for the mod. Any thoughts? Perhaps the community mod discussion can get it's own spot on the forums where each poll can be posted?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 27, 2012, 04:32:08 AM
Add the polls in this topic; I'll have Eternal do the advertising on IRC and in the News topic.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 27, 2012, 01:19:39 PM
The first poll, Mod Difficulty, is up. Vote now!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on June 27, 2012, 03:16:55 PM
I don't know where or why I came up with all this, but I figured I'd share it anyway.  Tear 'em all dead if you like.

Chemists do not suck enough to drop.


Chemists are Fine.

[/spoiler]

"Innate Commands" inspired a wide variety of suggestions for modifying characters across the board.

Innate Technical Proficiency.




Chuck-Wagon


What Else do Ninjas Do?

In short, the above Spoilers suggest the following:

If Innate Item Command is given to all, then it should not be exclusive to the player.  That goes against the spirit of trimming Transparent down.  The player and AI should be on equal footing.

Use the Chemist Class to improve upon an existing Innate Command while possessing its own can Command to facilitate this.

Speaking of Transparent, try modifying the attack-prone version to double direct evasion and negate magic evasion.

Recovery medicine should be altered to be viable and fair at any point in the game and not be skewed between one and the next.

Characters could have gradient Innate Ability packages that reflect their idiom better, such as Defend and Weapon Guard for Knights but not Black Mages.  This scale may be extended to Savvy (Throw, then Abandon) and Magic (Half MP, Short Charge) and arranged upon a grid.

Throw makes an excellent Innate Command, but should reflect a Character's skill and familiarity while being doubled in power to reflect a value in investment.

Characters could learn new Throw licenses by learning "Equip Merits" and the full menu is restricted to logical or balanced entries.  It may be possible to modify Throw to break at certain rates when used on certain types of weapons (e.g. daggers & shuriken may be retrievable, but perhaps not expensive gear).

Ninjas would still have Shuriken and Ball, but their Command list includes Ninja techniques based on altered Assassin Subdual Arts.  Abandon may also grant access to Throw and renamed "Ninjutsu" in addition to its doubled evasion.

Never knock Chemists.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 27, 2012, 03:56:30 PM
Some very nice concepts, though I'm not sure how much of it is obtainable. For example, the ninja command list including Ball and Shuriken as well as other abilities runs into a menu problem. If you set the menu to access the weapon list so Ball and Shuriken can be used, the other abilities will not work (and vice-versa). This is why jobs in FFT Vanilla whose skillsets included menu-specific abilities (Chemist, Geomancer, Ninja, Samurai, etc) had ability lists comprised of only those types of abilities.

Reworking Throw to be innate, but learning abilities through Equip skills is a wonderful concept, but I believe it would take most of the abilities away from NPCs. How many of them learn equip abilities, especially those outside of their jobs unless they're using that ability.

In my opinion, several items shouldn't even be throwable. (For example: Knight swords are huge. How far could you realistically throw it and what are the odds you hit blade first? Or Sticks...There's no point on them. Throwing a dull object like that might sting a little, but how much damage are you really going to do to someone with it? You'd be more effective throwing a stone, as you can throw it faster and hit more precisely)

"That really hurt! I'm going to have a lump there, you idiot. Who throws a shoe?! Honestly?"  -Austin Powers-
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Barren on June 27, 2012, 09:39:02 PM
I got one for you if you wanna try it

Job: Assassin Cross

Purpose: Melee/Status/Harassment

Description: Utilizes stealth and confusion in order to land the perfect killing blow

Gender: Both Male and Female

Skillset Name: Lethal Arts

Skillset Description: Variety of brutal methods to overcome enemies

Equips: Knives, Bows, Ninja Swords, Clothes, Accessories

Innate: Dual Wield

Skills: Meteor Assault (Adds Blind), Reaper (Adds Death), Cloak (Adds Transparent), Grimtooth (similar to Earth Slash Animation but using weapon), Sonic Blow (knock back damage), Venom Splasher (AoE Poison), Allure (Adds Charm), Soul Destroyer (AoE Damage)

Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Reks on June 27, 2012, 11:58:52 PM
Finally got around to remembering my idea from before.

Job: Vanguard

Purpose: Melee and debilitation

Description: Warriors who wield spears to debilitate and overwhelm foes

Gender: Both

Skillset Name: Spearplay

Skillset Discription: Several moves that hinder and damage opponents

Equips: Spears, Clothes, Accessories

Innate: Two-Hands

Skills:
Pin (inflicts half-damage, adds Don't Move)
Forceful Strike (deals lower damage, but is a guaranteed knockback if it hits)
Longinus (An aimed attack that pierces all enemies in the weapon's attack range, requires a spear)
Aimed Blow (strikes at the opponents joints, inflicting Don't Act)
Clobber (a forceful blow with the spear's shaft to the target's head, adding Confuse and lowering MA)
Full Thrust (deals massive damage(maybe 1.5?), but has low accuracy and weakens the user, taking away 1 or 2 PA each use)

Might edit as I think of more abilities. Hmm.....
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 28, 2012, 12:15:14 AM
Ronin, there's a far more basic problem with the Innate: Item hack than just balance/flavor.  If you have 16 moves in your primary and secondary skillset, your tertiary skillset (Item) will not be considered.  Thus, unless we limit the number of moves per class to 9 (or rewrite the AI table), we cannot guarantee that Innate: Item will always be used by the AI.  Until this problem is resolved, that hack shouldn't be used, balance/flavor issues aside.
However, this does not justify keeping Item as an independent skillset.  From a coding perspective, it is always nice to consolidate so I can save space to fit new features.  Since draw out, item, and throw all produce action menus that reference your inventory, it is a good idea to consolidate at least two of the above.  However, from a game and flavor perspective, the decision favors merging item and throw.
1) They have similar sprite animations when the event is used.
2) Draw Out (even after my edits) is a generalized skillset with healing, damage, status, and anti-mage.  It is already "complete".
3) You aren't throwing  a soul to deal damage; you harness the internal spirit.  It makes no sense to pair such abilities under a skillset titled Throw.  (I'm replacing katana because we already have oriental blades covered under ninjato.)
4) Item is purely support.  Throw originally was purely offense.  Both were fairly boring, but the combination would give Juggler more roles to fill.
In other words, my solution to this problem is to make one class that is good at throwing weapons and potions.  It'll take the role of chemist and the throwing role of ninja.  Other classes won't be as good with using potions or throwing weapons because they don't have throw item innate.  This should satisfy your need to make chemists better item users than everyone else while also granting them good offensive options.  As for your idea to create "higher-tier" rare potions that scale to the late-game, elixir (which we can certainly make more common) already does this; we don't need Hi/X-Potion usurping its role.  The AI won't use Elixirs early because each item has an "enemy use level".  If the enemies don't exceed that level, the AI won't use the item, even if they know the skill.  As for Ninja, we can always change Ninja's skillset to something more interesting (like what Barren wrote).

As for throw weapon, most weapons should not be thrown.  From a practical standpoint, most weapons aren't that aerodynamic and ones lacking a sharp point (like books) won't even hurt, even if it somehow managed to hit someone (as ShadowSkyle noted). 
Quote
Now we're in business.  This is closer to what Classes can do in real battle.
Although I appreciate your wish to add realism and give more classes the ability to attack at range, from the standpoint of coding, not only is there the inventory menu compatibility problem ShadowSkyle pointed out, there's also the problem I noted earlier in overloading the AI with too many options.  I don't want something like the PSX version of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together where the AI has a throw stone option on every unit but never uses it.  From the standpoint of balance, this is blatantly unfair to the already weak classes that specialize in ranged attacks: mages and archers.
This is also why I object to the idea of having Dragon Spirit add Jump as an innate; not only is jump actually powerful, it would incur the same problems.
As for some of your other concerns about throw, every weapon in FFTP has a flag that allows you to control the throwability of it.  In other words, you can have Throw: Knife only allow you to throw ONE knife rather than every knife.  The "enemy use level" also applies here; the AI won't spam OP weapons early.  We can certainly have the throwable flag on non-shuriken/bomb weapons correspond to doubled WP.  We can also have thrown items add status effects or spells with some very simple ASM hacking.

Weighted Dagger (6 WP--so 12 when actually thrown)
Javelin (8 WP--so 16 when actually thrown)
Throwing Axe (9 WP--so 18 when actually thrown)
Shuriken x3
Bombs x3

This creates a balance as the more expensive weapons have higher WP while the shurikens and bombs are weaker but very cheap.  We could even throw Souls (my katana replacement) as bomb variants if people feel Juggler doesn't have enough to work with.  I can also make offensive potions like acid beakers to be thrown, with the damage resembling Seismic Toss from Pokemon (so it scales to your level but ignores target defenses).
Part of the necessary restrictions on throw is that thrown items are one-time use during a battle.  Thus, it makes no sense to throw an item without a decrease in inventory.  However, your point on the gil costs of thrown items is also valid; once we remove rare items from being thrown, we can definitely consider a 70% chance for any thrown item (player or enemy) to end up in the fur shop for the player to buy back at reduced price.

Quote
(Tactics was never play-tested past 60).
If that's the case, then we should cap levels at level 49-60.  If we don't, we would either have to nullify speed growths (which makes speed gear more broken, speed save/critical quick more powerful, and Bows/Ninjato/Throw worthless) or scale Spell CTs to the speed of the caster.  Something like:
new CT = min{old CT, RU[old CT * X / Cas_Speed]}, where RU means rounded up and X is loaded from FFTP on spell formulas.
would then be necessary to balance damage mages with ninjas.

Quote
Fighter Branch: Knight, Archer, Dragoon, Samurai, possibly Dancer but never Bard.  Innate Weapon Guard and Defend.

Wizard Branch: Black Mage, Chemist, Time Mage, Mediator, Summoner, Calculator, Bard, Mime.  Despite mastery of esoterica, their instincts omit full battle-readiness and struggle to avoid attacks.  No Innate Weapon Guard or Defend.

Cleric Branch: White Mage, Squire, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Geomancer, Oracle/Onmyoshi, Dancer (if not a Fighter).  They exhibit enough combat readiness to avoid blows--just not with blades.  Innate Defend.
Why does Cleric have its own branch?  We don't need that many healing/support classes.  I know you're trying to model D&D, but part of what made FFT fun was interbranched job paths and the ability to hybridize your units (hence you had WMs with holy, chemists with guns, monks with golem, wizards with draw out, etc.)  It makes no sense to force-fit a model that doesn't really fit with FFT.  As a side note, the AI is very stupid with Defend; they will always try to use it when they have nothing to do, even if that wastes CT and will sometimes use it over pulling KOs.

My alternative tree is nowhere as detailed, but based off the jobs I've submitted:
Squire => Lancer =(branches into 2)=> (Other Armored Jobs)
Geomancer => Animist =(branches into 2)=> (Other Magical Jobs)
Juggler => Archer =(branches into 2)=> (Other Speedy Jobs)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 28, 2012, 05:05:33 AM
@formerdeathcorps: Can we merge Throw and Item? They open two different inventory areas (Weapon and Item respectively). When I tried to give the Ball command to Chemist, it wouldn't work. Also, I would definitely hate to see katanas removed from the game. Realistically, there were far more types of katanas than ninjatos, especially since ninjatos originated as shorter versions of the katana in order to deceive samurai into thinking the sheathed weapon would take longer to draw. I'd sooner just make some of the katanas as ninjatos, effectively combining the two types of weapons.

On another note, I'm very excited to see this mod forum taking off. For a while after I started it, it remained silent with but a few submissions. Thanks to everyone for adding their say and allowing this mod to begin it's path to greatness!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 28, 2012, 03:08:02 PM
Alright, I'll put in one more class.

Job Name: Warlock
Job Purpose: Magic/Harassment
Job Description: Arcane practitioner that focuses in torturing his enemies.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Curse
Skillset Description: The Warlock curses his enemies to render them incapable of fighting effectively.
Ability Types: De-buff spells/DoT
Additional Info: Can wear clothing or robes. Low MP/High MA (Used for dealing damage with books. If books remain physical, then the Warlock's PA will increase, while his MA will decrease).
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 28, 2012, 06:45:08 PM
@formerdeathcorps: Can we merge Throw and Item? They open two different inventory areas (Weapon and Item respectively). When I tried to give the Ball command to Chemist, it wouldn't work.

I'm working on the ASM.  This should work.


Quote
Also, I would definitely hate to see katanas removed from the game. Realistically, there were far more types of katanas than ninjatos, especially since ninjatos originated as shorter versions of the katana in order to deceive samurai into thinking the sheathed weapon would take longer to draw. I'd sooner just make some of the katanas as ninjatos, effectively combining the two types of weapons.

That was the idea; if katana was to be deleted, we would rename some of the ninjato as katanas.  This is what FFTA did with ninja weapons.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on June 28, 2012, 06:58:44 PM
I guess I may as well throw another class idea out there.

Job Name: Mystic Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Warrior mages who enhance the power of their weapons with magic.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Spellblade
Skillset Description: Adds a magical effect to the Mystic Knight's physical attack.
Ability Types: Mostly weapon-range elemental attacks that can also inflict statuses, similar to the Parivir from FFTA2.
Additional Info: Reaction abilities may include SOS Protect or SOS Shell if considered viable and balanced.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Reks on June 28, 2012, 11:15:03 PM
Thought of another Job:

Name: Sorceror

Job Purpose: AoE Magic Damage

Job Description: Mages who devastate their opponents with powerful and forbidden magic

Gender Availability: Both

Skillset Name: Arcana

Skillset Description: Magic powerful and devastating that does not discriminate from friend or foe.

Equipment: Rods, Staves, Books, Robes, Hats, Accessories

Abilities:

Blackout- Dark Elemental damage (AoE of 2, uses Darkness 2's effect)

Whiteout- Holy Elemental damage (AoE of 2, uses a whitened version of Darkness 2's effect)

Rejuvinating Rain- Water Elemental healing (AoE of 3)

Fatal Eclipse- Non Elemental damage (AoE of 3, Range of 0, uses Grand Cross's effect and hits the user)

Crimson Flare- Massive Fire damage (AoE of 2, uses Flare 2's effect)

Animalcule- No damage, inflicts status (Add Darkness, Poison, Silence, Don't Act: AoE of 1)

All abilities have a range of 3

I know this might seem a bit powerful, but all of the skills hit allies as well as enemies. JP costs might be expensive as well. Based off of the Arcana magic from The Last Remnant (though nowhere near as powerful)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 29, 2012, 08:11:55 PM
My hack is mostly finished, but phoenix down just refuses to work.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 29, 2012, 08:17:42 PM
That's not good. Though it would explain why they don't just toss a phoenix down to Teta. lol.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 30, 2012, 01:28:22 AM
All right, the above should be a functional beta.  The above should work except for 3 things:
1) No aftereffect animation
Reason: This does not work because FFTP is coded wrong and doesn't let you edit effect animations for THROW.  This can be hex-edited manually though.
2) Phoenix Down healing/status display
Reason: I don't know, but at least it works now.
3) Triggers Counter/Blade Grasp
Reason: THROW is an offensive skillset and thus triggers a complex of reactions associated with blade grasp and counter (henceforth known as countergrasp).  (NOTE, catch is unrelated; only thrown non-consumables will trigger Catch.)  However, the specific resolution is up for debate (see below).

Some things to consider:
1) This overrides Throw Sword, Ninjato, Katana, Knight Sword.  The reason why I overrode 4 slots is because there are 4 distinct types of potions: Heal HP, Heal MP, Heal HP/MP, and Heal Status.  The AI needs each potion type to be considered separately to understand how to use it.  This means the THROW will have Throw: Medicine, Ether, Elixir, Tincture rather than Throw: Consumable.  I can fix this, but it requires AI hacking (and is currently not worth the effort).
Technically, there should be 5 distinct types because Phoenix Down kills the undead, but the only loss in consolidation with Heal Status is that the AI will never use Phoenix Downs to kill undeads.  I can rewrite the hack to include 5 slots, but I'd rather see the PD + undead combo eliminated altogether.
As a corollary, I strongly urge anyone using this hack to restrict the types of thrown weapons to no more than 7 (including shuriken and ball).
2) THROW Item currently triggers countergraspable reactions.  This is another unintended consequence of tying ITEM to THROW.  This can be fixed, but there are several options
Option A: Have ONLY potions not trigger
Option B: Have all forms of healing not trigger countergrasp.
Option B Alternate: Have all forms of healing not trigger damaging countergrasp reactions.
Option C: Leave it as is.
3) How many of you actually want thrown weapons (not shurikens or bombs) to double their WP when thrown?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on June 30, 2012, 04:48:19 AM
Last call for job submission! The winners will be chosen starting Sunday, July 1st (Exact time is unknown) and will be announced as soon as they are all chosen! If you have any jobs you wish to post before the decision is made, do so now!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Celdia on June 30, 2012, 06:04:37 AM
Just threw FDC's Throw+Item hack into an XML if anyone wants to more easily give it a test.  7z'd because the forum hates .xml files.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on June 30, 2012, 03:37:12 PM
Blue Mage
Hybrid class capable of swordplay and various monster abilities
EQ: Swords, Rods, Staves, Clothes, Robes, Hats, Accessories
Special Abilities: Can learn monster skills from crystals
I'm thinking we either make monster skill and talk innate on all units or make both innate on blue mage.

Abilities (mostly support, but you have some nice damage skills too):
Choco Esuna
Circle
Beaking
Sleep Touch (You can only learn this through crystals.)
Blood Suck (This is the vampire cat version that only has a 25% chance of adding blood suck.)
Hurricane
Mimic Titan
Odd Soundwave
Look of the Devil
Nose Breath (Best learned through crystals.)
Protect Spirit
Calm Spirit
Sudden Cry
Triple Attack

Things not considered for balance reasons:
Blaster
Blow Up
Bad Breath
Triple Breath
Almagest
Oink
Gather Power

NOTE: The inclusion of Blue Mage necessitates monsters having stats similar to humans or a change of monster damage/status formulas.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on June 30, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
Adopted from Mercenaries:

Job Name: Inquisitor
Job Purpose: Support/Anti-Magic/Annoying
Job Description: Heretic hunting magis' bane
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Bane Magic
Skillset Description: Archaic form of magic used to obliterate and dismantle magic.
Ability Types: Buff/Negative/Status Spells
*Mana Strip - MP Damage
*Void Bliss - Ranged Dispel (enemy)
*Magic Mockery - Cancel casting, Add berserk
*Mirror Stance - Add Reflect (self)
*Anti-Faith - Reduce faith (self/enemy)
*Charm Crush - Breaks accessory
*Silent Lake - Add silence (all units)

Additional Info:
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=2187.20
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=2187.60#msg46275
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: mjr2716 on July 01, 2012, 02:58:21 PM
Job Name: Druid

Job Purpose: Support/Caster

Job Description: Protector of the wilds, avenger for nature.

Gender Availability: Both

Skillset Name: Nature magic

Skillset Description: Magic that is derived from nature herself. The Druid uses the gift she blessed upon him to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and to harm those who would destroy what is most precious to her, the wonders of nature.

Ability Types:
Geomancy (only the ones on natural terrains like Hell Ivy, Water Ball, Quicksand etc)
Basic white magic (cure 1, protect 1, shell 1, Raise 1)
Basic Black Magic (Bolt 1, Bolt 2, Poison)
Throw stone


Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Rfh on July 01, 2012, 03:35:09 PM
I was think to use my fusilier job in my patch with some changes here:

Fusilier:
Lower stats and 3 move, good speed.

-Stopshot: Weapon damage with 25% add stop

-Potionshot: Recovers HP in weapon range

-Ethershot. Reovers MP in weapon range

-Iceshot: Ice Weapon Damage in weapon range

-Rend Helm: Destroys enemy Helmet in weapon range

-Fire Blast/Mortar: 150% Fire Weapon damage in weapon range, but recoil to caster Damage/3

-Silenceshot: Add silence

-Firecracker: 150% Weapon damage, cost 22MP  (Maybe up the MP or change by another ability, because my game has another MP system)

Reaction:

Interference: Like Arrow guard, but with guns. The hack actually exist.

Support

Equip Guns or concentrate?

The hack for Fire Blast:

And for determine the +50% of damage instead of +Y, we can use my multiple formula hack.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 01, 2012, 06:20:11 PM
Job Submission is now closed! Thank you everyone for your submissions. Look for the next poll and topic in the Community Mod to find out the winners and to give your opinion for the next aspect of the game!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 01, 2012, 06:43:25 PM
OK, since we're going to be deleting the existing poll in favor a of a new one, please keep a record of the results.

Beginner (Increased EXP/JP, Low Costs, Simple Battles): 1 Vote
Intermediate (Increased EXP/JP, Normal Costs, Average Battles): 1 Vote
Advanced (Normal FFT): 8 Votes
Expert (Harder Battles; Normal XP/JP earned; Normal Prices): 16 votes
Insane (Everything requires strategic thinking): 8 votes
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 01, 2012, 06:52:24 PM
Didn't realize I could reset the votes for a new poll. Will do that for future polls.

New poll is up! Do you want a new story to go along with the new mod? Feel free to discuss any ideas you might have as to the direction of the new story, or why it ahould/shouldn't change!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 01, 2012, 07:44:17 PM
What happened to the list of submitted jobs on the first post?  Shouldn't that also be in spoiler tags?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 01, 2012, 07:45:41 PM
Will be returned when the winners are announced.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 01, 2012, 07:47:13 PM
Except given the 30 submissions entered, wouldn't it be a good idea to also post the list now so people just coming in can prepare for what they're voting for?  It may be difficult to scan the thread to keep track of all 30 entries (especially since they're scattered on 3 different pages).
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 01, 2012, 08:00:01 PM
I have a copy of the list outside of this site, and I'm consolidating the info for each job and reposting a spoiler with all the jobs and their descriptions in one, easy to access spoiler.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 01, 2012, 09:21:49 PM
All right, here's the updated version of Celdia's .xml file as a .txt.  To use in orgASM, just change the extension.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 02, 2012, 02:56:35 AM
Wow. This poll is running away quickly. Lol. Will likely be taken down tomorrow.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 02, 2012, 06:05:27 AM
More ASM:



Note, this doesn't affect the displayed spell (so it is still possible to display CT5 even when the spell always defaults to CT3) or the game from prompting you for the second parameter menu (Prime, 5, 4, 3).  I don't know yet how to fix it.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 02, 2012, 06:58:19 AM
Will it allow you to select something other than the predetermined second parameter?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 02, 2012, 02:19:49 PM
Yes, it will allow you to select something other than the predetermined second parameter (and your selection is what is displayed), but the hack mechanically only allows the four choices listed, everything else an illusory holdover from FFT's old code.

However, it seems you won't be using my calculator (and are instead using the more flexible Red Mage).  In that case, you can freely ignore this hack as Calculator and Red Mage are mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 02, 2012, 04:00:47 PM
The community has voted for a new story in the Community Mod (results on 1st post). Now it's time to decide when this new story will take place. Cast your votes now!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 02, 2012, 07:22:11 PM
On to the next topic of discussion: Monsters. What monsters should be in the game? Which ones need to be replaced? (Keep in mind that there is currently no one spriting for this mod, so we have to go off of Vanilla monsters and/or sprites submitted on this site)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Eternal on July 02, 2012, 07:24:08 PM
Tonberry, Lamia, Flan... use as many new monsters as possible while keeping Chocobos.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 02, 2012, 07:29:18 PM
Since you're using my animist, my first preference is to keep vanilla's monsters, but if you insist otherwise, the only monster that should be deleted is uribo.

As for additions, I don't care as long as we are not adding Flans or Cactuars.  They just don't feel like serious monsters.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Rfh on July 02, 2012, 07:51:20 PM
The community has voted for a new story in the Community Mod (results on 1st post). Now it's time to decide when this new story will take place. Cast your votes now!
Sequel or presequel... is difficult. Vainilla history is awesome and untouchable...
I voted new story, but if anyone has a very good idea, post here.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 02, 2012, 08:02:16 PM
We can take three approaches.
1) Stick with canon and tell the story, adding characters only to fill in gaps.  A subvariant is to tell the same story, but from a different person's angle.  This is the approach of Kingdom of Ivalice, Xif's hack.
2) Replace canonical characters or the plot, but not both.  Thus, you either replace key characters with original characters, but keep the plot (my story patch) or use the same characters, but change the events that happen to them (FFT Remix).  Even if you end up doing both, as long as you mostly keep the flavor of FFT (including the leaders, their political intrigues and wars, and the manipulation of the Church/Lucavi), this will still feel like FFT even if Ramza no longer becomes a main character.
3) Redo everything, as seen with Call of Power, Kokojo's hack.

If you all wish to stick to canon, the Lion War is the least flexible and a sequel is the most (because you can structure the plot however you want and you technically don't have to include anyone's descendants).  The prequel would be interesting because the prequel in the 50 Years' War era has a large plot that is only briefly sketched in FFT, meaning that a good storyteller can connect the dots in an engrossing way (even if his retelling isn't the only possible one).  That being said, I'm still entirely undecided.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Rfh on July 02, 2012, 09:45:01 PM
We can take three approaches.
1) Stick with canon and tell the story, adding characters only to fill in gaps.  A subvariant is to tell the same story, but from a different person's angle.  This is the approach of Kingdom of Ivalice, Xif's hack.
2) Replace canonical characters or the plot, but not both.  Thus, you either replace key characters with original characters, but keep the plot (my story patch) or use the same characters, but change the events that happen to them (FFT Remix).  Even if you end up doing both, as long as you mostly keep the flavor of FFT (including the leaders, their political intrigues and wars, and the manipulation of the Church/Lucavi), this will still feel like FFT even if Ramza no longer becomes a main character.
3) Redo everything, as seen with Call of Power, Kokojo's hack.

If you all wish to stick to canon, the Lion War is the least flexible and a sequel is the most (because you can structure the plot however you want and you technically don't have to include anyone's descendants).  The prequel would be interesting because the prequel in the 50 Years' War era has a large plot that is only briefly sketched in FFT, meaning that a good storyteller can connect the dots in an engrossing way (even if his retelling isn't the only possible one).  That being said, I'm still entirely undecided.

You're right, I only think about presequel or sequel and I forgot these possibilities.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 02, 2012, 11:10:55 PM
Expanding on the story of the original game would be nice, but I think there's a reason Square-Enix didn't do that with their later Ivalice games. The events of FFT were the climax of Ivalice history, and what came before and after was build up and resolution. It would be possible to tell an interesting story, but we would be heavily limited by the fact that many of the major plots were in their infancy during the Fifty Years' War and were already resolved by the end of FFT. The before and after were in service of the main story itself, and it would be difficult to add to or change those parts of the story without harming the overall narrative.

As such, I vote that we come up with an original story in a similar style.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Fosil on July 02, 2012, 11:46:01 PM
On the topic of story, specifically set after The War of the Lions, anything we come up with can be lost to history, as it were. Much like how the church covered up Orran/Olan's works.

In contrast, many things that happened before the War of the Lions were (obviously) mentioned in various rumors/etc in the original game. I think it would be easy to work from those--while staying true to the original.

I shall mention again the Khamja, along with The Sable Swords, among other groups active before/during the wars. And, there's lots of other things to draw from. The Game script from GameFAQs can prove useful for re-familiarizing oneself.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Eternal on July 02, 2012, 11:58:32 PM
I've wanted a story about Khamja for years now.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 03, 2012, 06:21:17 AM
Even throwaway agencies like the Blackram.

While reading replies, I realized that throwing has to be placed in its own list from other options because if you go past sixteen options, the AI disregards the available options.  My advice would be to consolidate those options in the first place (i.e. have a Break Skill perform multiple Break Equipment checks in a single action, so as to free up the other options).  The concepts sounded okay, although there would be a few we wouldn't use.  I never intended for Knight Swords to be used, for example.  Pole-Arms are doable, except maybe for sticks.  Consolidating all oriental blades still seems like cheating since they seem to run according to size: Knife, Ninjato, Sword, Katana, Knight Sword.  If we require keeping command lists beneath 9 or below, re-work every list to accommodate this.  That includes Magic Commands.

About making everyone a Cleric:

I don't mean literal support-guy Clerics.  That's retarded.  I was referring to the degree of combat proficiency.  According to my model, if you were a "Wizard" you sucked with fighting and didn't get Defend.  If you were Cleric, you got Defend as an Innate, and if you were a Fighter, you got Defend and Weapon Guard Innate.  You wouldn't make a bunch of Command Ability lists to accommodate the notion that the Clerics must be support guys, you'd follow their approximate combat proficiency instead.  Since you cannot use a D20, you use Innate Abilities per Class to approximate.  If there's a reason that Class progression cannot happen, I haven't heard it.

Anyway, merging Throw and Item sounds okay.  Not totally realistic, but for the sake of programming, I guess it's fine.  Just another sign of how limited the program is.  Didn't random decisions occur according to Item Learn rates or something?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 03, 2012, 08:16:28 AM
Except where does your realism end?

1) Realism in combat means a really high evasion rate on most units, but fatal KOs when hit.  Armor either blocks most attacks or it doesn't; only a narrow band of attacks actually allow the survival of 4+ hits before death.  REalism would also dictate the wearing out of equipment, especially shields and armor.
2) Realism would mean that units have a fatigue score that stops battles from going on forever.  You would also need to account for food, ammunition and potion allocation per archer/gunner/juggler/chemist, soldier size, and all the things that make many pieces of gear non-interchangeable.
3) Realism would mean that although most units are adaptable and can use multiple weapons and strategies, they'll still specialize in one or a few tools because it's what they focused their training on.  In that case, being realistic would dictate only a few reliable and effective abilities alongside a few very unreliable ones (which no sane player would use), which reduces immediately to FFT's dual job system (but a lot less flexible because your characters effectively lock into their jobs).
4) Your talk earlier about how it was unrealistic for someone untrained in medicine to correctly administer first aid under the stress of battle is certainly a valid point, but by extension, ANYONE who is mentally unprepared for the horrors of battle would have a hard time chanting a spell, swinging a sword, etc.  In short, we'd need to include morale, fear, and expertise into the success rate/effectiveness of each skill used.

In other words, I find your calls for realism to be fairly arbitrary because I can logically extend your argument for more realism to favor many other previously absent/under-emphasized game mechanics.  The logical result is a quadrupling of the stats necessary to track each unit and an increased inconsistency between any two units in comparison (meaning more for the players to memorize), while the gameplay is improved marginally (because the resulting mechanics are a lot less flexible).
Since we're not making a combat simulator, just an engrossing story and challenging set of battles for people to play, it should make sense that mechanics and storyline should take precedence over realism.  Of course, both of these need to stay true to Ivalice, which is similar to medieval Europe and feudal Japan, but the question isn't whether something is "realistic" in ancient warfare or the aforementioned societies, but whether it fits in Ivalice (as established by FFT) and helps make the game more fun to play, fill in mechanical gaps, or advance the storyline.  Like any piece of enjoyable fiction, a certain suspension of disbelief is necessary.

Quote
Consolidating all oriental blades still seems like cheating since they seem to run according to size: Knife, Ninjato, Sword, Katana, Knight Sword.
The point was to only consolidate Katanas with Ninjato.  If we wanted to make other Asian weapons like Kunai/Katar (knives), naginata (spears), repeating crossbow (crossbow), etc. we'd classify those weapons accordingly.

Quote
I never intended for Knight Swords to be used, for example.  Pole-Arms are doable, except maybe for sticks.
My original plan was to create only 3 non-shuriken/bomb weapons that you could throw: throwing knife, tomahawk, and javelin.  Everything else would be off the throw list to avoid weapon redundancy (and to reserve space in case people wanted offensive potions, soul bombs, etc.)  I do, however, think that doubling WP when thrown is a nice idea, if only to compensate for not being able to throw slashers or scorpion tails.

Quote
If there's a reason that Class progression cannot happen, I haven't heard it.
My arguments against it isn't so much that it's impossible as much as it encourages overspecialization.  By design, you are simply not allowed to have a decent sword-mage in the wizard tree, or a status caster using MP in the physical tree.  As a result, when every job of ONE type is in the same branch and someone wants a "specific unit build", they have no reason to explore the other two job trees on that person.  One thing FFT did right, I think, was making you master the physical jobs on a female to unlock dancer and samurai (so you could have that draw out mage), and making you unlock the mage jobs on male to unlock bard and mime.  Not only does this also make it easier for the AI to unlock more effective skills, it also makes it more likely players will employ hybridized combinations.

Quote
Didn't random decisions occur according to Item Learn rates or something?
I'm not using the skills titled Potion-PD anymore, so this won't be a problem.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 03, 2012, 01:44:03 PM
@Neophyte: Yes, Throw and Item have too many abilities for one menu. So a couple items may be consolidated or removed to make way for a couple throw commands. It'll work out.

We're not trying to make this similar to D&D. Tactics is it's own game, and should remain that way (at least for this mod).

As far as anyone being able to use Item goes (from your earlier post), you don't need to be a chemist to use such items, only to make them. Case-in-point: as a soldier, I was trained in field medicine. It's part of all soldier's training. And in FFT, most of the units began as cadets (A few exceptions, such as Mustadio, but it can be argued that he learned it for his dangerous job as well). I don't have to understand how morphine works, to know how and when to use it.

Weapons were not exactly assorted into size categories. A broadsword is generally 30 - 45 in. in length. A longsword was 47 - 59 in. Katanas generally ranged from 34 - 43 in. Right in the middle. Regardless, merging katana and ninjato is an effective method to be able to add a new class of weapons!

As far as throwing is concerned, very few wepons are crafted to be effectivily thrown. Just because a spear holds a similar shape, does not mean it's weight/balance/specific shape is arodynamic enough to be thrown with accuracy and distance in mind. Limiting the amount of weapons that can be thrown also allows for easier damage balancing of the skillset.

Hope this helps!


On another note: the poll is close, and can be recategorized as people wanting a Vanilla FFT based story, and a new one. So the poll is going to be consolidated into the two favorite choices. Please re-vote for your favorite!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 04, 2012, 09:22:21 AM
Nice. When polls like this are used I'm always afraid of situations where division among the majority allows the united minority to win unfairly. It's nice to see you consolidating things instead of just blindly following whatever received the most votes. Granted, it seems that I'm in the minority that would have otherwise won, but the option that seems to be winning now was my second choice anyway. It's separated enough from FFT's storyline that we won't be too tied down with continuity to build up to a climactic conclusion. We probably can't use the Lucavi, but we have full access to pretty much every other important group in Ivalice.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 05, 2012, 11:05:55 AM
The poll has ended. Results are listed on the first post. The story will be written about some time before the Lion War. Before I put up the next poll, it's time for a bit of discussion. How far before the Lion War should it take place? Would you like to see events leading up to the Lion War? Should we go further back, to some prior historical event in Ivalice? Is there any particular character you would like the story to be about? Share and discuss your opinions here! You never know if we might write about your idea!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 05, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Eternal has stated on IRC that he would like to see a story about Barinten or one of the Khamja Units during the 50 Years War. Any other suggestions/requests as to the main character or setting of this mod?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Eternal on July 05, 2012, 11:01:36 PM
I started a short story a very long time ago around Khamja, but I lost a lot of it when my old netbook died.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 05, 2012, 11:04:21 PM
Ouch. Well, if this is the story we decide to go with, I'l let you know and we can start it back up.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Fosil on July 06, 2012, 06:33:32 PM
For those unaware, The Sable Swords:
Quote from: Game Script
To combat the theft and violence prevalent during the Fifty Years' War, the Sal Ghidos Council created an elite guard made of fifteen knights who had proven their worth on the battlefield. This group of black-clad warriors was known as the Sable Swords. It is said they perished after falling prey to a bandit's trap in Death's Gorge, but even today people report sightings of ghostly figures in black.
So as far as using The Sable Swords in story, perhaps one or more members of it did not die to the trap, and could be party members?

And as other party members go, an obvious, if perhaps too cliche, character addition is Balbanes/Barbaneth Beoulve (Ramza's father; If he is included, I'd suggest not as a primary character. Also, wherever Barbaneth goes, Thunder God Cid goes.)

Eldibus as a young mage trained in Magic City Gariland, and ally, yet progressing towards villain as he delves deeper into his ancient tomes?

Zerro, the legendary thief of propositions? Though, his age is unknown...

And even vaguer, how about the mother or father or other relative of Rapha & Marach, giving clues to the origin of their powers?

Something involving Simon? Based from this snippet:
Quote from: Game Script
Elder of Orbonne Monaster and renowned theologian, Elder Simon is a devout member of the Church of Glabados. Although he once served as a Church inquisitor, a certain incident led to his retirement, whereupon he withdrew to the remote sanctuary of Orbonne Monastery.
Why is Simon so eager to help Alma. Honest goodness, or something else entirely? (What about an unforgivable act against her father in secret?) Yay, mysteries!

Something involving Gaffgarion?:
Quote from: Game Script
He once served as a division commander in the Order of the Eastern Sky in the Fifty Years' War. But at war's end, Gaffgarion was expelled from the Order as a result of the barbarism of the methods he employed to ensure victory.

Additional villains can spring forth from the Khamja and The Church, among others.

If none of these suffice, it is not hard to imagine new characters. But, as far as the main hero of the story goes, it should be one who possesses skill in both physical and magical schools, much like Ramza. (His ample PA & MA; as well as Wish, Scream, Ultima.)

And on topic of Ultima and other learn-on-hit skills, what if the main character was sort of a Blue Mage, but learns human foe skills instead? That character would be in every story battle and thus able to learn these abilities, anyway.

I hereby propose a female lead with a Blue Mage-esque skillset. (Trending with the recent upsurge of mighty heroines.) She can even get freaky with Balbanes and give seed as to why Ramza can learn-on-hit Ultima. ;) Kidding! Or is it a good idea? Speak your mind, and give your own suggestions, eh?

Edit: As it turns out, Ramza and Alma's mother was a commoner.. hmm..
Quote from: Game Script
Zalbaag: What have you ever done to inspire my trust? The mistake was my own. Until today I had looked on you as a true brother. But your mother's common blood forever stains you common. You are not fit to bear the Beoulve name!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 06, 2012, 07:11:53 PM
Very nice post, Tojoe. Whether or not we go with those characters as the lead, there's a good chance you'll see a few of them throughout the game (as long as it's during the 50 years war period)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 06, 2012, 08:35:55 PM
I thought the game was to be set before the 50 Years' War, meaning Balbaneth and Cidolfus would just be children at the time.

Simon's old enough that he would be in his late twenties when the war started, so using him wouldn't be a problem. We could also use Balbeneth's father or Elidibus, though Elidibus still needs to be around for the war. We could also use a member of Khamja or somebody from Rapha and Marach's home village.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 06, 2012, 08:44:36 PM
It hasn't been decided when the game will take place exactly, only that it's before the Lion War
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 06, 2012, 11:31:49 PM
Why are we doing a story about the Khamja?  They're just one little organization belonging to Barinten (or the previous lord of Riovanes), which itself is only a moderately sized principality.  If we want to do the Fifty Years' War, shouldn't we do a story about the entire thing, or at least the major players in it (rather than trying to force fit the Khamja as the major player)?

Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 07, 2012, 02:17:59 AM
If we are before the Lion War, then the only milieu that comes close to gripping is the Fifty Years' War.  We certainly cannot recreate ancient Ydoran Ivalice with our current graphics.  I certainly don't want to go for what those Trollers were trying to feed us, as a "Screw You!" to them.  Also, the immediate postwar period was covered in Chapter One already, at least in northern Gallionne.

I recommend we compose a story about an Ordallian soldier and his unit far inside Ivalice.


The other notion I had was an adaptation of a dark western, like "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", or "Unforgiven". 

The point is that the Fifty Years' War took that long to resolve and recreating it like those Civil War reenacting types is tantamount to the video game equivalent of Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace.  That could also be said of Tactics itself, considering how it will drop philosophical discussion amidst a battle (something I felt detracted from the believability of the narrative).  So FDC is right: we don't want to confine ourselves to a specific principality like Khamja and then justify parading across them the nation.  Then again, we don't want to embrace the whole war; the first half occurs in Ordalia (above Ivalice, across the channel) and we don't have a map to represent that region to any accurate degree (yet).

A tale related to but not explicitly about the Fifty Years' War is a lot easier to go for, should we go for a unique protagonist.  These are all ideas, of course.  If one of them sticks, so be it.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 07, 2012, 05:59:48 AM
Let me condense Neophyte Ronin's post here since he types about as much as The Damned and has about the same amount of overblown vocabulary going:

Make a Side Story using the 50 Years' War as a setting instead of trying to tell the story of the 50 Years' War instead.  This allows you the largest amount of creative freedom - most characters are unique, allowing you to play fast and loose with canon and mostly make your own adventures without having to satisfy any prerequisites - but you still get the advantage of having the 50 Years' War as a backdrop, easing the creative process and making it easier for players to get into your setting since they're already familiar with it.

It's also important to remember that your Side Story doesn't have to impact the ending of the war itself in any way, or even last long enough to see the ending of said war - a fulfilling story within the confines of the setting is all that's required.

Just gonna leave that here. :U
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 07, 2012, 06:26:54 AM
I actually agree.  Given the brief sketch of the history I posted, to chronicle that whole war is madness; to chronicle any section of it in depth would require far too many characters and would determine the plot way too rigidly.  Such events can only be relegated to the background because putting such events in front of the player would clutter the plot with lots of history.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 07, 2012, 07:12:43 AM
I would not try to cover the entire Fifty Years War...that would indeed be madness. I would hope it obvious that a small portion within that timeline would be selected, either with direct involvement, or outside influence. If anyone assumed otherwise, I'm sorry. There's simply not enough game to cover everything that would entail.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 07, 2012, 07:42:07 AM
Whether you're covering the whole thing or just a portion, the point stands that making a game actually about the war leaves our hands tied in a lot of places. I don't particularly mind the game being set during the war, but "the Ordallian king died, so the war is destined to eventually come to an end," doesn't make for a very climactic ending, and ending the game at any other point in the war doesn't do much better. As such, I also say that we should tell a side story that uses the war as a backdrop.

As for who to follow... I don't have any particular preference, but I don't think focusing on an Ordallian is a good idea. The game has to be set in Ivalice since that's the area we have a map of, meaning the game's story will deal with a lot of people and organizations native to Ivalice. I would prefer it if those people and organizations weren't all set as the protagonist's enemy before the story even began. The interplay between the church, the government, and the peasantry of Ivalice lends itself to some interesting stories, but those stories will be harder to tell if everybody's out to kill the player right off the bat. I would prefer it if the protagonist were part of one of the groups in Ivalice, so that every other Ivalician group has the potential to be friend or foe.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 07, 2012, 06:50:22 PM
New poll started! Who should the main character be?? If an original character is selected, they will be part of an existing faction.

Just to clarify, if original character is selected, then we will discuss the plot of the game before diving in to see who that char will be. If the character is a known entity, then we will build the plot around them!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 07, 2012, 07:35:54 PM
The nationality actually doesn't matter too much to me, as I have characters prepared for either case.

Actually, looking at the canon plot, things are reversed:


In short, the vanilla plot and mine are somewhat at odds, but either is serviceable, though one needs to rewrite three elements of the vanilla plot (Zelamonia's relation to both Ivalice and Ordallia, timing of Romanda's invasion, and the length of Ordallia's occupation of Zeltennia) for it to make sense.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Taichii on July 07, 2012, 07:46:23 PM
how about the main character is an original charcter.. then every chapter is not only about the war but also each of the candidate's (balbanes elidibs and so on) story :)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 07, 2012, 11:33:12 PM
As far as the plot goes, if you're doing a Side Story that only occurs within a small segment (a few years) of the 50 Years' War, the details before can be glossed and generalized except when relevant to that particular Side Story and ignored afterward because your Side Story doesn't last that long.  Basically, this approach allows you to "fix" any logical issues with the canon description of the 50 Years' War by simply ignoring them unless directly relevant to your plot. :U
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 08, 2012, 12:56:26 AM
EDIT: Okay, I really don't like how long my post was. Here's a shortened version that's been edited so it can exist inside of spoiler tags.

Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 08, 2012, 03:09:49 AM
Thanks for the clarification.

Let's draw the position from what we do know.
1) Plague happened 3 years after Romanda invades.  This means Ivalice was affected by plague no later than the fourth year.
2) Ramza is 15 at the start of the game (meaning Balbanes was in Igros at Year 35 of the war).  Considering Ordallia borders Zeltennia, Balbanes has no reason to do this unless he was going home to either suppress internal revolts or the Romandans.  Given the stature of Balbanes as a commander and his loyalty to the king, it makes more sense that he's at war with Romanda.
3) Romanda attacked Yuguo because we know the place was filled with the ghosts of the 50 Years' War during the Lion War.  This may be apocryphal but I do recall them attacking Dorter as well.  Combine that with the gunpowder at Zeakden, it makes sense they landed at Zeakden and radiated outwards (so they must have attacked Igros and Riovanes).
4) Bethla Garrison was never captured in the war, meaning the theoretical maximum of the Ordallian invasion would have been a few hundred miles from Lesalia.
5) Wiegraf is 30 at the start of the game.  Wiegraf probably did not form the Death Corps until he was at least 18, or at Year 38 of the war.
6) Delita lost his parents to bubonic plague.  As I mentioned earlier, it makes the most sense to assume this was the same plague that was spread from Romanda.

Thus, what I suggest is this:
Year 0: Denamda II (Age ~45) and his son Denamda III (Age ~18-20) lead their armies into Ordallia.
Year 5: Ivalice captures Zelamonia...somewhere around this time, Denamda IV is born, probably in Zelamonia to the daughter of a prominent noble there.
Year 25: Ivalice loses Denamda II (probably to diseases related to old age).
Year 26-31: Ordallia push Ivalice back to Zelamonia
Year 31-33: Stalemate (somewhere along the line...Denamda III dies, leaving his son in control)
Year 33-36: Romanda invades, but then withdraws
Year 37-40: Plague sweeps Ivalice and Ordallia, leading to mass discontent in both countries and a return of the stalemate.  It may be best to assume Valowa IV dies of plague to be succeeded by his son Lenard.
Year 41: Denamda IV dies.  Omdoria marries later that year.  Ordallia's counteroffensive is too much for Ivalice to handle.
Year 43: Ordallia enters Zeltennia, and the official armies are helpless to stop them.  The Death Corps and other peasant forces are probably activated around this time.
Year 49-50: Final treaty is signed, probably because of the economic costs of war and because the tactics Ivalice is now resorting to may upset the feudal order in both nations.

In short, we don't need to change the events hinted at by the PSP script.  All we need to do is adjust the secondary stalemate to a much shorter period of time.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 08, 2012, 03:25:22 AM
Looks good, FDC. That simplified layout of major events and supported theories of previously unclarified events will help the storyboarding process a lot!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 08, 2012, 03:54:13 AM
Once we decide on what we wish to use--Balbanes, Barinten, Cid, an Original Character--we can map out a personal history and get the storyboard rolling.  We can at least comprise a few skeletons out of seven-point-plots: devise a chief conflict, multiple intelligent attempts at resolution, a climax where everything is at stake, and a denouement where everything gets addressed before the credit roll.

Credit Roll... will we devise our own credit roll FMV that includes the original authors and programmers in addition to us as well?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 08, 2012, 04:26:38 AM
@Neo: Once we decide upon the main character, and central story plot, I will be putting together a team of writers to begin discussing various plot elements and to start building the story.

As to the credit roll, if someone is able to put together something like that, it would be great.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 09, 2012, 07:42:35 AM
So it looks like we've decided on using an original character. So now comes a contest! What would you like to see the plot revolve around? This can be something completely original, or something within the history of the Fifty Years War that was never fully explained. Submit your ideas now! We already have some good ones submitted from previous discussions, but now is the time to get yours in.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 09, 2012, 10:59:06 AM
Personally, I really like the idea of making Simon the protagonist of this game, or at least a major player. The main plot could surround the church's initial contact with the Lucavi. Either Vormav's predecessor becomes possessed and convinces his buddies that it would be a good idea to find more holy stones, or he's just interested because the Zodiac Stones are valuable religious/historical artifacts. Either way, Simon (or whoever the protagonist is) aids in the search for the latter reason, and ends up inadvertently causing some incredibly terrible things to happen. The Lucavi that awaken during this game may end up being defeated, but the Leo Stone and many others are already in the possession of the church, and it's only a matter of time before Hashmal gets things going again.

The major villains of this story would probably be Shemhazai and Mateus if it's possible to get sprites for them. Otherwise, the Lucavi that appeared in FFT could be active. Elidibus should probably be in the story somewhere. Cid should also be in the story, since he seemed to know a bit about what the church was up to in FFT, and since the Libra Stone was an Orlandeau family heirloom (though I don't think the church knew that he had it.)

As for when this would take place, my preference is to make the story fairly late in the war to avoid the implication that the Leo Stone did absolutely nothing for over a decade. Around the fortieth year sounds good to me, with the relatively mysterious death of King Denamda IV possibly being worked into the plot. It should be noted that Balbaneth's older sons were already active before Denamda IV died, as Zalbaag's profile mentions praise Zalbaag received from Denamda IV for his victories during the war.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 09, 2012, 11:27:34 AM
I've got one major question for you here Quman: Why are we basically recycling FFT's plot?  If you take what you wrote and simplify it down, it becomes "Mr. Tingle and the Church decide to collect the Zodiac Stones and unleash evil demons upon Ivalice."  If you simplify FFT down, it becomes "Mr. Tingle and the Church decide to collect Zodiac Stones and unleash evil demons upon Ivalice."  The details and faces are different but the core story is basically the same and that seems rather sloppy.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 09, 2012, 08:25:38 PM
Uh... I always thought FFT was about Ramza and Delita, not the Lucavi. Also, this isn't so much about a villain plotting to bring back other villains as it is about a "hero" accidentally doing all of that stuff. I only listed Vormav's predecessor as one possible catalyst to cause this to happen; it's quite possible for this to happen without a possessed church leader leading the way, and it may well be better if the protagonist does all of this on his own.

Recycling FFT's plot would be using FFT's plot as the main focus of the story, but what I suggested was use the Lucavi plot as a way to tell a story not told in FFT. The whole reason I wanted to tell this story is because I was interested in Simon's background, the Lucavi just make for a decent catalyst. But if you ignore the main point of the story and just focus on the villains who are only there to support the main story and thus don't get as much attention, then of course the story I suggested won't end up looking very good.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 09, 2012, 08:40:13 PM
I was thinking the main character could be an average man who was conscripted into the Ivalician Army from Zelamonia during Year 31 of the war, ostensibly to defend his homeland.  Instead, following the Romanda invasion, he gets sent off to defend Ivalice and following the chaos of the Ivalician invasion, is forced to commit atrocities against Ivalice's people to "keep order".  Horrified by his actions (and by the fact Ivalice is truly no better than Ordallia), he is finally granted leave after he learns his wife died of plague, leaving him with a daughter to take care of.  Only a few years pass before Ordallia invades again, forcing him into the local militia, where he meets his end.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dome on July 09, 2012, 08:51:09 PM
The main character should be the father of the squire leading the thieves that you kill in the second battle.
You die during the semi-final battle, and in the final battle you control your son and fight against Ramza (and lose)
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 10, 2012, 12:43:07 AM
De-hardcoding of Chemist:

BATTLE.BIN
0xDA414
09

For this to work, you need to set Skillset 06 to <Default>.  Once you do this, you can give chemists normal (non-item) skills.

Problems:
Spells are called the wrong thing (called [   ](something blank) when used by AI controlled units and Dagger [from the THROW command] when used by the player units).
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 10, 2012, 11:14:40 PM
So it looks like we've decided on using an original character. So now comes a contest! What would you like to see the plot revolve around?




Frankly, I like Option Three for its scope, while the first two options are shorter in length.  Each one delivers a clear moral dilemma for the protagonist who tries to do the right thing.  Each one conveys a sense of doom as well.  However, the former two seem doable by not directly referencing the Zodiac Brave Stones, thus avoiding a rehash of the original plot.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 11, 2012, 02:43:30 AM
If we can expand on Plot I, I'd definitely consider it.  For starters, we need to give the spy a specific mission.  WE can even give him a series of increasingly important missions that show his increase in rank and the increasingly razor-thin balance of victory.

I don't understand Plot II.  What are the "both sides" you are referring to?  What exactly are the petitions to the Queen for?  Are the Death Corps suppressing the revolt or helping further it?  Why exactly are the official troops unable/unwilling to do anything?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 11, 2012, 07:27:45 PM
Very good ideas so far that the writers can have fun with. Decision will be made tomorrow, so post any last submissions now!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on July 11, 2012, 08:48:56 PM
I don't have any terrific plot ideas lined up. I would just like our story to lead into the first game. I'd like it to involve the new Lucavi Chaos, Exodus, Famfrit, Mateus, Shemhazai, Zeromus, and Elidibus as well.

I see know reason why we can't use an original plot and characters while still canonically giving credit to other characters as well. People would flip their shit to see appearances from Gafgarion, Simon, Balbanes, and Orlandu. Obviously some characters can't interact with plot elements like the Lucavi or even other characters.

I'd also, like to see some plot thread for a sequel to the original sewn in. A prophet or a prophecy with information about the 3 great disasters of Ivalice (Current game problem, second coming of Ultima, and finally the Calamity of the third game.

Finally, can we get some Viera and Bangaa in this one?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 11, 2012, 11:58:55 PM
I was under the impression that Viera and Bangaa went extinct as a result of the cataclysm. The cataclysm is credited with the extinction of the "winged ones" (possibly referring to moogles,) and it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that the other races that we hear nothing about throughout FFT no longer exist. It may be possible to find some way to work them in if we really want to, but I'm reluctant to do so.

As for the other Lucavi, there's a reason I singled out Mateus and Shemhazai in my post. Chaos came from the Taurus stone, which was buried in Goug (probably since the cataclysm, which was also credited with old Goug's destruction.) Zeromus' Cancer Stone was guarded by Worker 7 in Nelveska Temple. Exodus' Libra stone is an heirloom of the Orlandeu family. Famfrit's Aquarius stone was recovered from the Goland coal mine. The two that I singled out were already in the possession of the church when FFT started, so they and Elidibus would be the easiest to work into the plot.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 13, 2012, 01:40:13 AM
Sorry for the delay. All submissions will be reviewed, and one will be chosen as the central plot of the mod!

Actually, we'll let the community decide! The plot submissions are listed on the first post. Review them, and choose your favorite!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Eternal on July 13, 2012, 01:55:06 AM
Maybe you should make the plot submissions into a poll. :P
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 13, 2012, 01:56:18 AM
Already on it, Eternal. :) Posted before I set it up.

Also, here are the plot submissions:

Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 13, 2012, 07:08:14 AM
For the record, my submission doesn't require Simon to be the player's character. We can create an original character that we have more freedom with and make Simon a major NPC like Delita is in FFT.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 13, 2012, 12:27:10 PM
If we can expand on Plot I, I'd definitely consider it.

I don't understand Plot II.  What are the "both sides" you are referring to?  What exactly are the petitions to the Queen for?  Are the Death Corps suppressing the revolt or helping further it?  Why exactly are the official troops unable/unwilling to do anything?


Either administration = North Sky or South Sky.  Both agencies, toward the war's end, suffered the need to quell revolts within the kingdom.

The use of dirty tactics to put down a revolt (or have it succeed) employs monsters specifically to feature them during story fights and, if they're redone like how Dome did Plus, they can be actual threats that you'd want on your side.  It also stains the moral candor of the protagonist, who is forced to go along with these tricks.  It necessitates monster recruitment.

Petitions to the Queen are meant to illustrate the ambivalence between her and the Board of Chamberlains and of the peasants' outrage.  The perception of her as a tyrant was glazed over in favor of focusing on the Zodiac Brave Story.  Since we don't wish to repeat the themes of the original game, a different lens upon the setting is in order.

The Knights of Death were volunteers, though their exact service to the army was unclear.  Since they were formed due to diminishing strength of the army, they might have been doing the things that the regular army didn't want to bother with, including the quelling of peasant revolts.  These revolts would then inspire the Knights of Death later, but for now, they had a war to fight.

In short, the good cops became vigilantes later.  I figured the Knights of Death were cool enough to feature; Option Two takes place just before the war's end, right before they turn sour.  It lets us make them into Guest Characters if we wanted.

Did that clear things up?  My second option was hastily written, but this is what I thought of when I wrote it.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Kagebunji on July 13, 2012, 01:03:12 PM
Just in case you guys would decide on plot choice of Lucavi...
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 04:25:57 PM
Neophyte, I understand your intent now, but your plot makes no sense.

1) If the official Nanten + Hokuten cannot fight off the Ordallians, it would make sense for Ivalice to deliberately encourage the formation of peasant militias in the occupied zones throughout Zeltennia as a last-ditch effort.  In other words, a peasants' revolt in Zeltennia would not be suppressed by a desperate Ivalice army for the simple reason that it would also pose problems for Ordallia's occupation.
2) Thus, this scenario could have only occurred in Ivalice's back line, in Gallionne.  Hearing the news of the official loosening of restraint on serfdom, many in Gallionne decided to revolt.  The use of monsters by Ivalice is a nice touch, I admit, but the role of the Death Corps makes no sense.  We know from the game that they used assassination and kidnapping and this was sanctioned by Ivalice.  In terms of tactics, it is ineffective to use assassination and kidnapping against peasant revolts; they are motivated more by rage than by leaders and organization.  We also know that although Ivalice lost the war, Ordallia had no more will to fight (meaning it had no more military momentum).  This means Ivalice must have shifted battle tactics into destroying Ordallian morale and organization.  Thus, it makes the most sense to argue that the Death Coirps were using those guerrilla tactics against the Ordallians (and not the people of Gallionne).  Their subsequent lack of recognition for finding the winning strategy would certainly give them reason to revolt.
3) If the insurrection in Gallionne was truly as large as you say, the Hokuten would have stood no chance against the subsequent Death Corps' led revolution.  Just think, if the Hokuten hadn't the troops to repel a revolution composed of the old, the young, and the infirm (since everyone else would have been conscripted) during the war, how were they going to repel the same revolt after thousands of experienced veterans had joined them?  The kidnapping of Elmdor was a ploy by Dycedarg to win public opinion, but that implied the existence of a majority of neutral civilians before the war began (merchants, unaligned peasants, etc.)  If the scale of your revolts was truly this massive before the 50 Years' War even ended, Dyce's gambit would have failed (as his trick would appeal to virtually no one).
4) If the Death Corps had participated in the counterrevolution against Ivalice's own people during the war, no one would have trusted them after the war to lead the rebellion.

Thus, if you want to run this plot, I think we need to limit the scope to something like this.
1) Ivalice is desperate and encourages peasant militias in Zeltennia only, by secret order.  (The secrecy is to stop the spread of the information to Gallionne, where protests would serve no military purpose.)
2) The news trickles to Gallionne anyways, rekindling interest in rebellion.  However, since most villages and towns are deprived of their sons and daughters due to conscription, plague, and the previous suppression during Denamda IV's reign, very few actually revolt.
3) The few that do revolt, however, cause the Queen to panic and she sends in what few reserves are left to make an example of the most outspoken villages.  The player-character, for example, could be a member of the Lesalia palace guards.  He is accustomed to civility and dueling, not counterinsurgency warfare.  Augmenting these brigades are the most merciless mercenaries and criminal organizations, alongside their monster pets.
4) Horrified at the senseless slaughter, the player-character writes repeated letters to the Queen, but to no avail.  Realizing the futility, he decides to personally confront the mercenaries, arresting them himself.

From there, I'm sure we could build a plot.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 06:16:59 PM
I don't have any terrific plot ideas lined up. I would just like our story to lead into the first game. I'd like it to involve the new Lucavi Chaos, Exodus, Famfrit, Mateus, Shemhazai, Zeromus, and Elidibus as well.

I see know reason why we can't use an original plot and characters while still canonically giving credit to other characters as well. People would flip their shit to see appearances from Gafgarion, Simon, Balbanes, and Orlandu. Obviously some characters can't interact with plot elements like the Lucavi or even other characters.

I'd also, like to see some plot thread for a sequel to the original sewn in. A prophet or a prophecy with information about the 3 great disasters of Ivalice (Current game problem, second coming of Ultima, and finally the Calamity of the third game.

It is cool to have all those characters appear.  However, doing so puts demands on the storyboarders (like myself) because we have to find explanations for all the plot holes.  Not only is this harder to do, as Raven noted, the resulting plot will look like fanservice.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Taichii on July 13, 2012, 07:04:51 PM
voted desperate soldier cause there was a word "desperate" on it xD
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on July 13, 2012, 07:10:51 PM
Fan service indeed; are we not fans? So long as its written well then it's okay. However, I do agree with characters should react to plot. Plot should not react to characters. That said, Famfrit doesn't sound like a problem so much as an opportunity. If his stone is an Orlandu family heirloom then all you need is an Orlandu host and bam. After he dies the stone drops to the floor and gets left behind. An even cooler cameo shows baby Olan playing with it as it shines on menacingly.

Oh and it doesn't really seem to difficult for a couple of these plots to run parallel and intersect. Personally, I think it would be neat to see these guys doing more than just resurrecting one another. They make great villains for any story involving intrigue.

Hell, the Church could have a couple of them enslaved. Theirs could be a quest for revenge.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 08:21:52 PM
1) Famfrit = Aquarius Stone = Found in Goland's Coal Mines
2) Libra = Orlandu's

My objection to fanservice is that it assumes implicitly you already know what FFT is about.  This makes certain story elements seem completely arbitrary from the standpoint of someone who's never played FFT.  It also makes characters some people would fawn over (Orlandu, Balbanes, Elibdus, and Simon) seem unimportant or completely flat.  Adding unimportant cameos has the problem of disorienting the reader/viewer because good story writing is tight: it doesn't introduce characters for the sake of it.

If any of you need an example of what I mean, look at the Katia Managan fanfic (http://www.prequeladventure.com/2011/03/prequel-begin).  Although I have philosophical disagreements with the way Kazarad approaches his story, it is still fairly engaging because you need NO knowledge of Oblivion to understand the misadventure and suffering of a loser catgirl.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 13, 2012, 08:39:36 PM
Your amended version looks even better.  When will the voting end?

Edit: judging by current standing of the polls, sometime after a week.  The selections are really neck-to-neck, aren't they?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 13, 2012, 08:45:28 PM
Yes, this one may take a little time to end, mainly because there is no clear winner right now. All the votes are pretty spread out, and we'll need a few more in order to bring it to a close!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 13, 2012, 11:55:38 PM
Shadow, I think part of the reason why there's so few votes this time around is because a lot of people do not like any of the plots represented and are having doubts about the project as a result.  After deciding an original character, we should have decided on the focus of the plot.
In other words, I think we need to have a poll to characterize the original character's associated groups, targets, and close friends (where each person can check as many as they wish to see).  Only after this poll should we vote on specific plots.

Simon
Khamja/Barinten/Rafa's village
Balbanes and/or Cid
Ordallia
Elibdis
Death Corps
Church
Peasantry
Other Groups

NOTE: It is actually canonically wrong to involve a plot including the Zodiac stones for the purpose of summoning Lucavi because it was made clear in FFT that their existence was unknown to everyone except Vormav, Draclau, Rofel, and Kletian at the start of FFT.  You create a time paradox if you unveil them during the 50 Years' War.  Even a "secret" hunt orchestrated by Elibdis/Funeral would defy the plot in multiple points, especially the finding of certain stones at the start of the Lion War and the fact that most of the stones were still not in the Church's hands at the start of the Lion War.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Fosil on July 14, 2012, 12:51:31 AM
Well spoken, FDC.
I shared the same feelings of mismatched characterization/group affiliations, but thought better to voice personal opinions when the actual story was evolving. I don't see things as set in stone, either.

And I'm just throwing this out there, so it is said: On the topic of characters--specifically the hero--he/she must have a goal, and someone/thing worth fighting for. Victory cannot always occur--but if so, the cost (loss of self/allies/etc, new enemies/etc) of winning is a high price that must be paid.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 14, 2012, 01:07:11 AM
NOTE: It is actually canonically wrong to involve a plot including the Lucavi because it was made clear in FFT that their existence was unknown to everyone except Vormav, Draclau, Rofel, and Kletian at the start of FFT.

The Elidibus proposal has the player-character dying at the end, and my proposal focuses on members of the church. Note that everybody you just mentioned was aligned with the church. The only people outside of your list who learn about the plot with the Lucavi in my proposal will either end up dead, or end up at Orbonne translating ancient scriptures. I'll admit that it's a stretch to expand "Although he once served as a Church inquisitor, a certain incident led to his retirement, whereupon he withdrew to the remote sanctuary of Orbonne Monastery," into a story in which Simon becomes aware of the Lucavi, but neither proposal really makes the Lucavi public knowledge.

You create a time paradox if you unveil them during the 50 Years' War.

FFT ended with practically everybody that knew anything about the Lucavi dead. To assume that some new plot involving the Lucavi would end with a large number of people knowing about the Lucavi is unjustified.

Even a "secret" hunt orchestrated by Elibdis/Funeral would defy the plot in multiple points, especially the finding of certain stones at the start of the Lion War and the fact that most of the stones were still not in the Church's hands at the start of the Lion War.

Did anyone actually suggest Funeral having anything to do with the plot? Anyway, I agree that Elidibus shouldn't have a lackey digging up Holy Stones in Goug only for them to magically become reburied so Mustadio can find them, and the Orlandeu thing is almost as bad. However, if the Elidibus proposal ends up being accepted, I highly doubt we're actually going to use those holy stones when Pisces and Sagittarius would work just as well without creating the same plot holes.

Of course, I'm perfectly content to keep the Lucavi out of the story if people prefer that. Avoiding them was my first impulse anyway, and I don't particularly care for the Elidibus proposal. The main reason I changed my mind about including the Lucavi was because I wanted to center the story around the church, and it would seem a bit odd to center a story around the church and not address the Lucavi plot that involved so many high-ranking officials in the church.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 14, 2012, 01:12:42 AM
Two people in the Church knew of the Lucavi.
1) Vormav (who became possessed after his wife died of plague)
2) Draclau (who became possessed after discovering it)

NOTE: Funeral knows the stones exist, but not their dark secret.  Simon knows the Church was founded on a lie, but knows nothing else about the Lucavi.  He regards the stone hunt as simply a means of wrongfully extending influence.  The thing that caused Simon to leave the Heresy Examiners is his discovery of this fact, not that of the Lucavi.

I'd be fine with the Elibdis proposal if the final battle was to confront Elibdis and the player character gets turned into Byblos after the fact, realizing that it was all a horrible mistake.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 14, 2012, 02:29:42 AM
The fact that Byblos has a random monster name might be a slight issue there, but not too bad considering Ramza would have no way to know Byblos' real name. But why are you for the idea if the protagonist turns into Byblos but against it if the protagonist ends up dead? I have my own reasons for not particularly caring for the idea, but I don't see how swapping out one unfortunate end for another would make a difference.

Anyway, I hereby withdraw my proposal. I still like the idea of centering the story around the church, and it might work if either Simon or the Lucavi were completely removed from the picture, but I don't feel like splitting my proposal and dragging things out when my proposal is only in third place anyway.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 14, 2012, 02:48:07 AM
Partly to tie up loose ends, Quman; I want some explanation for why Byblos opposed Elibdis, but the player dying is fine.  However, any scenario where the player survives the Deep Dungeon intact is probably a bad idea.  I just wasn't clear in the post before.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on July 14, 2012, 03:13:23 PM
I fail to see these challenges as problems. Overcoming continuity glitches is an opportunity. First you figure out where you want to go with your story. If their is a continuity conflict you simply ask yourself, "How do I get from point A to point C?" If your answer is simple then you're probably good to go, if your answer is complex and convoluted then you should walk away from the idea.

The Lucavi problem is simple. If the Knights Templar are the only surviving witness then
1. Not many people witness the actual Lucavi
2. Those that do, die or become Knights Templar
3. Some of the witnesses forget via mundane or magical means, like brain damage.
- For example: After blowing up the auracite generator, Simon wakes up in a hospital bed asking where he was, how he got there, what happened to his friends, and recounts the last thing he remembers, which doesn't include Lucavi, to his last living party member Vormav.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dome on July 14, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Random Idea:
The main character gets cursed by Elidibs and becomes byblos XD

-Edit-
Awww, ninja'd
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 15, 2012, 06:26:29 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, I am not as sure about Option Three as I was before.  Then again, it's the one winning, so I'm not so sure.

Is it true that Vormav became possessed after his wife died of plague?  Where was that written?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 15, 2012, 05:50:35 PM
Sorry, I'm getting Draclau confused with Vormav.  Draclau lost his wife to a fanatic.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dokurider on July 15, 2012, 09:13:47 PM
You know, all of this ideas could be easily combined into one story with exception of the initial contact with Lucavi because it's a plot hole in waiting for the most part. In fact, it's preferable since most of these ideas alone couldn't make a full or satisfactory story on par with FFT.

A young man (or woman, gotta be open minded) is conscripted into the Ivalician army, specifically into a company that's suffered some serious losses as of late. He or she, along with the squad of fresh meat that he/she came with fight a series of draining battles that always end up in stalemate or retreat. Talk of the strange going ons that have been going on locally and how they're very similar to the feats Elidbus was famous for before he disappeared. Eventually, even the command is starting to take these rumors seriously. After a particularly devastating loss, command decides to send their most inexperienced and therefore most expendable squad to investigate these sightings, hoping Elidbus can be convinced to rejoin the army and turn everything around.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 15, 2012, 10:01:19 PM
You know, I think we can merge in all three of Neophyte Ronin's plots this way:

The player is an Ordallian spy sent to find a way to disorient Ivalician resistance throughout Zeltennia in the closing days of the war.  He creates false miracles and wonders to trick the desperate Ivalician command into thinking that Elibdis has truly returned.  As the situation grows more desperate for Ivalice (and the spy gathers more people to vouch for his reliability), the events continue until the Ivalician command have no choice but to take notice.
Ivalice then sends a reasonably balanced search party of expendables to investigate Elibdis' location, led by the spy.  Included among them are many conscripts alongside the veterans of the counterrevolutionary purge mentioned in "Desperate Solider".  Obviously, Ivalice would rather them all die than have them give popular accounts of their deeds.  The spy uses this distrust to turn his band of misfits against Ivalice, causing them to further disrupt Ivalician communication and organization while feeding the news of Ivalice's massacres against their own civilians (as mentioned in "Desperate Soldier") to Ordallia as propaganda and as means to coerce Ivalice into accepting their surrender.  (In other words, by the time the spy engages in his wanton romp, he already has knowledge that the secret treaty negotiations are occurring so his mission is now to find ways to strengthen Ordallia's negotiating hand while further demoralizing Ivalice.)  When Ivalician command finally realizes their mistake and tries to chase him down, he then flees across Ivalice and chances upon Deep Dungeon, where he is transformed and his men meet their final doom.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 16, 2012, 07:25:24 AM
Bingo!  And it parallels the intrigues described in Germonik's Tome as well.  Thanks, FDC.  That representation of what could go on has my vote.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 18, 2012, 07:37:01 AM
Sorry for the lack of replies on my part, everyone. Had a sudden, random vacation, and haven't had access to a computer until now. I will be returning on Friday, and will give this mod more direction at that time.

Also, I changed the Poll to reflect the revised plot. Maybe now we'll have a more definitive winner in the poll.

Previous Results:
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 20, 2012, 06:07:49 AM
And... suddenly my proposal is getting more votes than the proposal that combines two of the proposals that previously been beating mine. Oookay... well, I guess it won't be too hard to eliminate plot holes by decreasing Simon's involvement. Just make him a major NPC that never learns about the Lucavi and there shouldn't be too much of an issue. Eh, I guess I'll wait and see what our final decision is before I think too much about execution.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dokurider on July 20, 2012, 08:04:46 PM
For everyone that's voting for the Lucavi, realize that the only people that even had contact with the Lucavi in the 50 year war was Vormav and Draclu, and that was at the very tail end of it. Most of the contact with the Lucavi occurred during the War of the Lions. At best, we're looking a recap of FFT's events from a different perspective. At worst, it's a plot hole. What I'm trying to say is, Contact with the Lucavi is an awful idea.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on July 20, 2012, 08:11:26 PM
What I'm trying to say is, Contact with the Lucavi is an awful idea.

Yup.

But you're expecting people to actually want to do something other than rehash the exact same bullshit.  Democracy!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dome on July 20, 2012, 08:56:27 PM
Good luck. And I seriously mean it, you will need plenty
What did you guys expect?
Giving FULL control to the people means that such stuff CAN (And probably will) happen

Anyway...

What if X guy founds a stone, the stone makes him a Lucavi's Minion and that's the cause of the Fifty years war? XD
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: The Damned on July 21, 2012, 02:10:57 AM
(My, this has taken off as of late.)

I voted for Neophyte's revised idea (again?).

As for the Initial Contact with the Lucavi plot, besides what Dokurider pointed out, it comes off as way too convenient for pretty much all the Lucavi to appear during 50 Year War, get defeated/re-sealed and have everyone either be dead or ignorant. Keep in mind that pretty much everyone got mercilessly slaughtered at Riovanes and there were still reports of an especially peculiar "monster" doing it. You'd have to quite the high level cover-up and while poor Funeral might have blind to Vormav's designs, I don't think even he would be that blind.

That said, you could do a plot where Lucavi appeared before the War of the Lions...as long as you make the appropriate changes during War of the Lions. However, if you're trying to base the plot on something that ties directly into explaining the background of FFT's plot without changing anything in the vanilla plot, then it's just a plot hole waiting to happen as has already been said.

That said, still fully expect it to get votes and maybe win. No skin off my back if it does or doesn't.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 21, 2012, 04:52:17 AM
Initial Contact with Lucavi could work if it was reserved to Elidibus alone, as he is not necessarily connected to the regular Lucavi working to revive Ultima.  To be more precise, he may be what Delita was: with his own ideas about things.  The plot does not have to use the other Lucavi, and that works well for those who think it shouldn't, period.  Don't get careless and say that only Vormav and the Cardinal were the only guys in the know.  We have no clue what Elidibus is after, or what his connections are, because he was added to the zodiac devils but not explicitly with them with them.  So, an Initial Contact of Lucavi predating Vormav and Delacroix most likely involves him, but it could encompass some other issue.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 21, 2012, 08:05:03 AM
As for the Initial Contact with the Lucavi plot, besides what Dokurider pointed out, it comes off as way too convenient for pretty much all the Lucavi to appear during 50 Year War, get defeated/re-sealed and have everyone either be dead or ignorant.

What the... are people even reading my proposal before criticizing it? I admit that there were problems with it (thus my having retracted it,) but I'm not a complete idiot. The proposal wasn't some massive thing involving the Lucavi all awakening. Only Shemhazai and Mateus were intended to be involved in the plot. I also mentioned Elidibus being in the story, since it made sense that we might address him acquiring a Zodiac Stone and mysteriously vanishing during the recapture of Riovanes Castle if we were covering the Zodiac Stones, but this isn't really anything that doesn't already exist.

I'm also getting tired of people saying that absolutely nobody but Vormav or Draclau could know about the Lucavi during the war. I don't deny that adding one or two new characters who knew about them is a stretch, but it irks me when people speak in absolutes when those absolutes aren't necessarily the case. My proposal has enough issues that people really shouldn't have to exaggerate to make it look bad.

There are ways that the plot could work, but we've already eliminated my main reason I even proposed the plot in the first place, so I'm not going to get too invested in working out the details unless we actually end up getting tied to this plot. But the thing a lot of you are ignoring is the fact that ShadowSkyle also isn't an idiot. I highly doubt my proposal will end up being our direction even if it does get the most votes, so there's really nothing to worry about here.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 21, 2012, 08:21:16 AM
Not to mention, if we end up with a tie, as it is right now, BOTH plot lines will be included. Not to worry either way. I am very confident in my writing ability, and you will NOT see a rehashed plot, no matter what is decided upon here!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: The Damned on July 21, 2012, 10:07:20 AM
(I'm not sure anyone is calling anyone's intelligence into question here, even implicitly. I wasn't at least, given [potential] plot holes can happen to the competent.)

Yes, I read the proposal. A while ago.

Admittedly, given how I haven't really been following the thread, I couldn't quite remember what you wanted and I was being lazy about going back to check considering stuff kept changing and my desktop still being abysmally slow; I had even less incentive since I don't see myself helping with this for multiple reasons.

So sorry about that "confusion".

That said:

I'm also getting tired of people saying that absolutely nobody but Vormav or Draclau could know about the Lucavi during the war. I don't deny that adding one or two new characters who knew about them is a stretch, but it irks me when people speak in absolutes when those absolutes aren't necessarily the case.

I wasn't speaking in absolutes. I dislike speaking in absolutes in general and it would be extra-hypocritical of me to say such a plot-line was impossible when I'm basically doing some variation of it for Embargo.

All I was saying, mistake in the number of Lucavi involved in aside, is that it just seems kinda annoyingly convenient for everyone save two possessed guys and potentially a sociopathic, hermit mage to be none the wiser or even to begin suspecting things. You want to bring in another player or two, original character or not, fine. You're pretty much going to have to.

If the intention, however, is ultimately to line up with vanilla's storyline, meaning that you can't change anything there and are guiding the story to that as an end goal, then yeah, the "Lucavi were around the 50 Year War, secretly" plot still has the most going against it. You can make it work if you really want to, though.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on July 21, 2012, 05:10:47 PM
Escalation. That is the reason why the Lucavi concept has so much steam. Comic book fans know what I'm talking about. Eventually it got boring watching Superman beat the piss out of regular bank robbers. Eventually he need to beat up on Criminal Masterminds like Lex Luthor. Eventually though, Lex Luthor became irrelevant and Superman's villains started getting superpowers. After those guys became boring he started fighting evil versions of himself.

The problem FFT faces is that the first game set the bar really damn high. Political intrigue and conspiracy that reaches all the way up to the heavens and all the way down to hell. The goal of every sequel or prequel is to outdo it's predecessor. Prequels also have the added responsibility of setting up the original story. Sequels on the other hand have the freedom to go where they want, so long as the reference the original tale. (Which is why I was primarily behind the idea of a sequel so we could move beyond the Lucavi to something bigger and better).

Now that we are in prequel town, it only seems right to make the game relevant to it's predecessor's biggest ideas. In Final Fantasy Tactics the big idea was the Lucavi conspiracy.

To me, a game surrounding the Deep Dungeon seems anti-climactic. The Deep Dungeon is kind of lame. It's a big black disappointment.

Before we make any decisions, I have to ask. Do we have the ability and talent to create 50 new maps? If not I suggest we choose a plot that stays in Ivalice so we can recycle as many maps as possible.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 21, 2012, 05:48:31 PM
And that, Jack, is precisely WHY many action and video games series devolve other time.

Look at FFVII, and then all of its sequels.  In each sequel and movie, Square tried to outdo the apocalyptic story in VII with more apocalypse and drama, until the each new plot (or lack thereof) just made many members of the fanbase sick.
Or you could look at Bleach.  The repeated insistence on fighting bigger and tougher enemies makes the original story sagas look like a joke, while the new enemies seem like they are just impromptu additions to the plot.
Or you could look at Pokemon TCG.  Even though there is no plot, there is a set of expectations about how the card game should play.  The Diamond and Pearl cardset was literally so powerful compared to previous versions (with reduced energy costs per damage, linearized weakness system, and higher overall HP) that it wasn't really compatible with older cards and mechanics, even though the company insisted it was.  It caused sufficient outcry that the newest cardsets had to return to the older mechanics, for the most part.

In other words, "escalation of drama and excitement" requires more suspension of disbelief, which puts extra strain on the plot.  Furthermore, this strain isn't linear; after a given amount of escalation, ANYONE will realize that the story is breaking the fourth wall.  The only people who'll end up playing are those who care for action and cool effects over the story.

Nor, Jack, would I even argue the Lucavi are central to FFT's theme.  The bonds and expectations between family, the necessities and intrigues of power, the suffering of the people are all central themes to FFT as well.  In fact, at least one reviewer (I just don't remember the link) pointed out that the Lucavi was actually the WEAKEST part of FFT's plot because once it started, the story could then omit the gritty political realism that actually started the plot (and was still influencing it until the end).

Quman, the Damned already pointed out why I cannot support the first plot.  Personally, I believe in minimizing assumptions.  Thus, we should not make an impromptu addition to the 50 Years' Plot just to be cool; in the process of linking the prequel to the history of the Lion War, we'd have to assume a broader conspiracy composed of faces who did not then exist later, meaning also a process in fading/killing/removing such characters from history.  This assumes way too many extra links, and even if explained, the resulting story is more likely to be crap.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 21, 2012, 09:13:47 PM
(I'm not sure anyone is calling anyone's intelligence into question here, even implicitly. I wasn't at least, given [potential] plot holes can happen to the competent.)

I wasn't taking anything you said as an insult. The idiot thing was my own evaluation of a plot that takes place during the Fifty Years' War that includes all twelve Lucavi (though I suppose idiot may be a bit harsh on my part.) It was also my evaluation of people who blindly follow polls without listening to feedback and ensuring that the path they set down can actually lead to success.

I wasn't speaking in absolutes. I dislike speaking in absolutes in general and it would be extra-hypocritical of me to say such a plot-line was impossible when I'm basically doing some variation of it for Embargo.

I had moved on from addressing what you said there, but I should have made that more clear by doing something more than a paragraph break. Dokurider is the most recent to bring up the 'fact' that only Vormav and Draclau were the only ones to know about the Lucavi, though it's come up before.

Quman, the Damned already pointed out why I cannot support the first plot.

I'm not trying to convince people to go with my proposal. Like I said, the whole reason I wanted to do it in the first place has already been eliminated, so I really don't care that much about it now. I'll try to make it work if we get stuck with it because I want this hack to be a success, but I'm not really supporting my proposal otherwise. I've been freely admitting throughout this discussion that my plot is a stretch. The only reason I'm fighting some of the criticisms is because it irks me when people use unfair criticisms or false absolutes when they could make their points without resorting to such. That's why the only part of his criticism I responded to was the part that was untrue.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on July 21, 2012, 10:01:56 PM
I want to point out that in my post I made no mention of themes. I also want to point out that I'm pointing out the flaws of audience desire. Comics from the 90s prove that a more extreme version of something isn't better than the original. More extreme is just more of the same.

The Lucavi weren't even remotely the best or most interesting part of the game. It's just the game's big idea and their big reveal was far more successful than pretty much all of M. Night Shyamalan's. Do you think Wiegraf would be as beloved if he didn't become Belias?

I digress. I think the real problem here is that people want to do a prequel. Prequel's don't matter unless you retrofit them to the plot of the original story. A prequel that isn't retrofit might as well be a part of a different and similar universe. The endgame scenario should have a direct effect on the main plot points. It should set events in motion that kick off the original story.

Unfortunately, the most major players of all were the Knights Templar/Lucavi.

Also, you guys argue against the Lucavi like the idea is impossible to bring across properly. It's not, a good writer can look at the things that need to be accomplished and make it happen. Does Vormav need to become Hashamalum to develop a Lucavi plot? No, you have two or more perfectly capable unseen creatures that can fulfill the role of big bad monster. Moreover the organization can be fleshed out and developed. New characters can be developed with bigger plans and further reaching goals than resurrecting their master.

I voted yes for the Lucavi but it's not because of them. I voted yes because it actually has something to do the first game and it doesn't end with the main character chancing upon the Deep Dungeon in an end completely unrelated to it's own game.

Personally, I'd like to see a game that uses an ensemble cast. Three main characters with individualized plot threads that intersect and overlap. A story featuring and Ordalian spy, Simon, and a new recruit freshly initiated into the Knight's Templar.

Neither of these two plots are good enough on their own. I say we use them both.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 22, 2012, 12:16:07 AM
I will reserve my comments on this discussion until the poll is down. I am merely the behind-the-scenes manipulator setting this whole project in motion as it needs to be handled (With some help along the way, of course!). Tomorrow, the poll will close, and I will post a nice long block of information on what I think in regards to the plots, and plans I might have for it.

Poll is officially closed, and we have a tie! The game will have a mix of plot lines, all joining together in beautiful, unsuspected harmony.

The plots as they are, are not perfect. The people who came up with them knew this from the start. But do not worry. Perfecting the plots is why I'm here. Myself, and a team of volunteers who have wonderful skills at writing FFT plot, will bring you a wonderful, richly deep story to wrap your minds around. Don't be concerned with the issues brought up here. They have not fallen on deaf ears, and everything will be taken into consideration when designing this mod.

Expect to see a little bit of everything thrown in. You'll see some old characters (Fan service, if you will. However, the goal is that once you finish this mod, you should play the original game. You might find yourself shocked at the realization of: "Oh! So that's why that happened." You may find yourself growing attached to characters who you previously knew little about. Not to worry, there will be plenty of new characters as well, most of which will be the focal point of the game. Who knows. Maybe when this is over, I'll make a mod for the original FFT inserting a couple of these characters into the original game. (Perhaps a sequel will follow once all that's done?! We'll see how it goes. Not planning that far ahead at this point)

Now, if you wish to be a proper part of this project, please send me a message on here with what you wish to do. Immediately, story writers are needed, and I'm sure FDC could use some help with the hacking/event editing. Also, I know we're going to need spriters, so please. If you wish to see this mod succeed, it's your duty to help out however you can. This is YOUR project, after all!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: formerdeathcorps on July 23, 2012, 07:05:07 PM
I'm definitely willing to be a "proper part" of the project.

Skills:
ASM Hacking
Storyboarding
Mechanical Balance
Eventing (not as proficient as ASMing, but I can do it)

While we're at it Shadow, can you post who else is currently on the development team?  In particular,
Quote
Myself, and a team of volunteers who have wonderful skills at writing FFT plot, will bring you a wonderful, richly deep story to wrap your minds around.
...who else is on the storyboarding team?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Dokurider on July 24, 2012, 04:28:18 AM
Count me in. I'd be willing to help write out the story.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on July 24, 2012, 06:14:13 AM
Oh, when you mentioned sending you a message I assumed you meant a private message. Well, I'd like to be part of the writing team. If we're partially using my proposal, I feel like I should be one of the people tasked with making it work. Besides, I like writing.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: st4rw4k3r on July 24, 2012, 07:51:02 AM
Count me in StoryBoarding too.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Neophyte Ronin on July 25, 2012, 04:04:15 PM
All you got to do is ask me.

I've been going through TactText like a fine-toothed comb to make the textual experience of Tactics a different one, and have also considered retooling the cinema texts through the Event Text Editors supplied by the community.  If there is a certain style you wish me to exude, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Timbo on July 25, 2012, 10:18:32 PM
I might be able to help a bit with EVTCHR spriting since nobody really does that. I can't make any new animations but I can recreate existing animations with new sprites. Of course, I can only do this with human units.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: LastingDawn on July 26, 2012, 05:37:10 AM
I'm about as unreliable as they come, but this idea looks like it may possibly work. The idea to have a story that bases itself within the Fifty Years War and ties into the Death Corps and Elidibs looks like it could work really well.

Of course it all comes down to does the fellow in charge have the time and drive to create this absolutely new game? Something of this scope would require a whole new set of sprites and events. Even after Eternal and I wrote out the entirety of Mercenaries script and having the battle system (nearly) complete I came to a wall when it came to events and various setbacks (losing my work not twice, but thrice).

Recall that Mercenaries also started out as a community project and I am still very thankful for the amount of feedback and assistance I was given, but eventually there will come the time that the leader will have to get his hands dirty and add everything in. Are you certain that you are willing to go that far?

Please be absolutely certain of your commitment, lest you end up disappointing the people that depended on you.

That said, I wish you the best of luck, I consider myself very well versed in Ivalician lore (and am a slight bit disappointed that St. Ajora's story was never brought up as a possibility, hehe) so if you'd like to send me the storyboards let me know.

An aside but in following this path you are directly following on Matsuno's footsteps. He has said that if he was allowed to make a sequel to FFT it would have taken place during the Fifty Years War.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 26, 2012, 11:28:29 AM
A good point, Lasting Dawn, but I am more than willing and able to see this project through. My new job training ends today, and my hours are set, leaving me with a good deal of free time (Most nights I only work about 5 hours, and I'm off on Saturdays). Being ex-military, I know what it's like to commit to something, and how to push myself through obstacles.

That said, current volunteers are:
Myself
FormerDeathCorps
Quman
Dokurider
st4rw4k3r
NeophyteRonin
Jack of All Trades
Lasting Dawn (Should we have questions about lore. =) )

Each of you should PM me (not post it here. it's much easier to track information in my message box, than searching through the forum) and inform me of your capabilities (Writing, Spriting, EVTCHR, ASM, etc. etc) so I know who to assign each project to. If your name is not on this list, and you wish to be a part of the project, then please do the same. In the next day or two, we'll all be getting together on IRC to discuss things further, so also inform me of when you are available for such things.

Thanks everyone, and I'm looking forward to making this patch a reality!
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 27, 2012, 06:31:09 PM
Tomorrow, at 5pm (EST), I will be on IRC to discuss the patch and brainstorm ideas. Everyone is invited to attend, though if you are working on this mod, it's especially important that you try and make it to this little brainstorming session.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: st4rw4k3r on July 28, 2012, 02:53:20 AM
You should hold it on #ffhs so you don't get talked over.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 28, 2012, 09:02:22 PM
I am attempting to get on the IRC now, however, I keep getting an error message
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: st4rw4k3r on July 28, 2012, 09:02:47 PM
whats the message?
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on July 28, 2012, 09:03:57 PM
Fixed, nvm
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Twinees on August 04, 2012, 04:57:40 PM
Also, I know we're going to need spriters, so please.

If you want spriters to work on this patch, first you are going to have to prove that progress is actually being made. One of the most annoying things is spending hours of work and it going to waste.

I was going to offer to help a while back actually until I saw Lucavi mentioned. Spriting wise, monsters they are a massive pain to make as they take much longer to make and are much harder to get the shading down for newbies.

So basically if I can see some stuff getting done, ill offer help.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Kagebunji on August 04, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
If you want spriters to work on this patch, first you are going to have to prove that progress is actually being made. One of the most annoying things is spending hours of work and it going to waste.

I was going to offer to help a while back actually until I saw Lucavi mentioned. Spriting wise, monsters they are a massive pain to make as they take much longer to make and are much harder to get the shading down for newbies.

So basically if I can see some stuff getting done, ill offer help.

That's two of us here then. I even showed some Lucavi sprites from IA, but no one seemed to notice.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: Quman on August 04, 2012, 07:31:07 PM
Even if we do end up needing active Lucavi (we might not,) I should point out that Shemhazai and Mateus were always presented as optional additions that could easily be replaced by Lucavi that we already have sprites for. The sprites that are actually needed for this hack are human sprites. This isn't to say that you shouldn't wait until they see evidence that the patch has a chance of being completed before dedicating your time to help with it. I'm just pointing out that the human sprites are the ones ShadowSkyle is calling for.

And I did notice those sprites when they were posted, but the discussion at the time was about the plausibility of the plot working in-universe, not about the lack of resources. There wasn't any particular reason to address the sprites other than to say that they looked good, but I didn't want to imply that my reasoning for proposing the plot had anything to do with that.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on August 04, 2012, 07:37:46 PM
Yes, we only recently discussed the plot, and the bosses have not yet been decided on. I'm not going to make any actual spriting requests until we get to a point where we know what we need.

A note to our writers: I'm going to be overviewing the story, and distributing assignments in the next couple days. Please keep an eye on your messages to see when I send you something.
Title: Re: Community Mod
Post by: ShadowSkyle on August 16, 2012, 11:33:23 PM
Apologies for the lack of communication. I've been in the hospital. Will get back to the mod in a day or two.