Final Fantasy Hacktics

Modding => Spriting => Topic started by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on November 30, 2007, 02:14:48 AM

Title: My/our Red Mage Sprite
Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on November 30, 2007, 02:14:48 AM
Hello all,

I want some feedback on the red mage sprite I've been working on.  I'd make this a poll, but I figure I might be asking more opinion later in this thread so I decided against the poll.  Anyway, What do you guys think of these capes:

EDIT: Removed dead link. -Kuraudo

I can't decide.  I was just going to leave it plain and white, but VincentCraven suggested a red cape so I figured I'd meet him half way and add just add some red.  Plain white is an option, too, in case you were wondering.
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Post by: Asmo X on November 30, 2007, 03:16:41 AM
Plain white or the simple Red Stripe. You don't want it looking too busy.
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Post by: Argg0 on November 30, 2007, 03:46:04 AM
It feels kinda... too much knight.

Maybe a Red Cross?
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Post by: Xifanie on November 30, 2007, 10:49:43 AM
Really need a hat to be a Red Mage. XD

But I'd vote plain white or the second stripe.
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Post by: VincentCraven on November 30, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
I'd say go for the white. I think a solid color looks better, but having the cape as I did would bring in the problem of too much red. Some Red Mages don't even have a cape, so go for what you like.  ^_^

I'd say if you wanted a design, try for something like trim? Knight is a bit macho, and I'm not sure what it is exactly about him. If, once you have finished equipping your Red Mage, he still looks too knightly, it may be because of his stature or stance.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on November 30, 2007, 02:52:17 PM
This is not the finished sprite.  He will have a hat, and other changes.  I was just asking about the cape for now.  I 'm just trying to get as much work done before I have to deal with the stupid hat again.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 01, 2007, 03:02:58 PM
Slight update: everything but the hat and the dead a sprite is done.  just a few more angles need to be done for the hat, I'd say I've done about 60% of them done.  What I need now is to create a tester so I can make sure that animation flows well.  I'm using GraphicsGale to create the sprite which has it's own animator, but I'm not having much success doing the animation.
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Post by: Chrona on December 01, 2007, 04:47:04 PM
Random hint, for the animation, can't you just patch it into the game and see how it moves? I'd think it would work best that way, since you actually see the sprite itself in game
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 01, 2007, 08:25:49 PM
Good idea.  I need to figure out how to do that.

Anyway, here is the last update I'll do before I'm done.  Just need to make a few more hats and a leg then it will be done!

EDIT: Removed dead link - Kuraudo

I'm still open to ideas.  I agree with whomever said he looks a little to knightish.  Once I preview the animation I'll feel more comfortable changing more things.
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Post by: Xifanie on December 01, 2007, 08:39:56 PM
Much less knight-ish with the hat. It looks very good though. Only thing I saw wrong was that the hat was missing a few pixel on the signing sprites.

The hat on the dead body looks weird. :S

Overall, you've done 3x better than my blue mage.
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Post by: VincentCraven on December 02, 2007, 12:47:34 AM
Heh, the only reason why I'd say the Red Mage looks too knightish now is that the knight looks like he is wearing clothes when he should be wearing armor. Don't forget that Red Mage is a fighter as well as a mage, so don't worry about him being too beefy.
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Post by: Asmo X on December 02, 2007, 03:00:24 AM
I don't think much needs to be changed here. It looks really good and sufficiently different from the knight. The hat on the dead body maybe looks a little more round than it should based on the other pictures but that's not a huge deal, right?

So...who's going to draw the profile picture for the Red Mage then?
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Post by: karsten on December 03, 2007, 06:30:41 AM
aproved by me. :D
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 04, 2007, 12:01:05 AM
I'm still having troubles with the hat from behind.  Everything I try turns out being at the wrong angle or just plain ugly.  If anyone wants to try a crack at it, please do, because I'm losing patience.  I might start my blue mage sprite just to feel like I'm accomplishing something and then come back to the red mage in couple of days.
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Post by: Xifanie on December 04, 2007, 09:00:27 PM
If you want, I can make a custom edited event that animates the unit in every possible way. Obviously, shooting an arrow with a sword will always look ugly. :/
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 05, 2007, 05:37:08 PM
That would be wonderful.  It would still require me to learn how to patch the game, but that is still a great idea.
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Post by: Xifanie on December 05, 2007, 09:03:44 PM
Okay, Then I'll just ask a few questions before doing that so i can make most things in your favor.

Your OS? (Windows/Mac OS?)
What emulator are you using?
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 05, 2007, 09:19:21 PM
I'm using Windows XP, and am currently using ePSXe as my emulator.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 08, 2007, 02:15:14 PM
I still can't even get any decnt look for the hat.  I just wanted to let people know that I am still working on the sprite.
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Post by: karsten on December 10, 2007, 06:15:09 AM
Quote from: "Kuraudo Sutoraifu"
I still can't even get any decnt look for the hat.  I just wanted to let people know that I am still working on the sprite.

great to hear will you post a nother WIP?
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 10, 2007, 02:28:12 PM
It is still the same thing as the last post.  I've just been trying to get a hat on'em.  I may just go with one of the ugly ones for now, and just come back to it.  But, I'M SO CLOSE, I don't wanna quit now!
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Post by: Kourama on December 10, 2007, 06:02:21 PM
If you want upload the version you want to fix and I'll see if I can help out.
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Post by: VincentCraven on December 17, 2007, 07:36:09 PM
I'd like to see your sprite too.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 17, 2007, 08:53:48 PM
When I get off work, I'll post any progress, but I don't think anything has changed since the last time I linked it.
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Post by: VincentCraven on December 17, 2007, 09:13:37 PM
Oh, well I'd be happy to try putting a hat on your headless frames. I'm sure it would look ugly, but w/e.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on December 18, 2007, 02:24:15 PM
Yep, the last one I posted has all my updates, aside from cleaning up a portion of a hat that shouldn't be there.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 10, 2008, 11:37:59 PM
Well here is a look at the Red Mage I started yesturday. I am using Weigraf has the model to differentiate it from the Knight more. Though the whole thing is heavely based off of the colors scheme and hat done by Kuraudo. Hopefully you don't mind Kuraudo, you just did such a good job that it would be stupid to not use your's as a basis. Hopefully you like what I did with the rear view of the hat and incorporate it into your design. Then maybe we can work together to figure out those last few angles for the hat.

I do want some advice as to what to do with the cape. Obviously the shading is all off from the rear, but what kind of design should it have and should the cut of it be changed? I like what you did with the Triangle cut at the bottom Kuraudo but I'm not sure it would work as well on this cape. Suggestions?

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59 ... review.png (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMagepreview.png)
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Post by: VincentCraven on January 10, 2008, 11:53:58 PM
I thought the triangle cut looked rather stylish. It doesn't need a design, but I do like the cape being red as opposed to the gauntlets and boots.

Then again, I'm a red-black fanatic, so take my words lightly please.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 11, 2008, 12:03:05 AM
I will keep thinking on the triangle cut. I'm going to try a few designs for the cap just for kicks, even a straight white line might do the trick. I should have a few more angles and some cap designs done soon.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on January 11, 2008, 03:52:15 PM
EXCELSIOR!  One more angle of that stupid hat down!  If I could hug you over the standard TCP/IP, I would.

And nice job, Cheetah!  Yours looks a little more regal, whilst mine looks a little more warrior-ish.  Either way, I likes.

As for the triangle cut on the back, the only way I'd change is highlight the "V" in the triangle with a white or gold line kinda like Beowulf has his.  Other than that, don't put much of anything on the cape as it might get too busy like my first ideas did.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 11, 2008, 08:23:26 PM
Oh, right... I need to make hacked files for you to tests out the anims.  :roll:

I'll try to do that today.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on January 11, 2008, 09:20:42 PM
It no problem, it not like anyone is holding a gun to your head.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 11, 2008, 11:05:44 PM
Tada:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59 ... eview2.png (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMagepreview2.png)

Well what do you think of the side/back view of the hat Karoudo? I think it is okay for now, maybe needs some slightly different shading and perhaps the feather needs to be a tad different. I'm going to try some different things with the cape now. I think both of our sprites are looking good, hopefully they can both be implimented as different color schemes or something.

Hey Zodiac, if there is anyways you could set up a sprite viewer for me as well that would be amazing. Though I am running OSX and the only emulator I have is a commercial that runs on an older operating system.

Either way I'm going to continue editing, but first I'm going to post some cape ideas.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on January 11, 2008, 11:32:33 PM
Tada Part 2. only two more angles of the hat left.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/Powerguy500/RedMagepreview.png

Hey Cheetah, thanks for contributing, you've given me inspiration again.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 11, 2008, 11:57:51 PM
We are definitely working off of eachother's efforts on this one, it is great. I am still not satisfied with the side/back hat view yet and have tried some adjustments. I will post it soon, I'm just including some cape designs as well.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 12, 2008, 12:40:02 AM
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59 ... 1200102232 (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMageCapes.png?t=1200102232)

Okay here are some examples of some different cape styles along with some more polished back and side/back character views. The hat is a tad different, it was too small and not pointy enough before (may still need a little work). Thoughts on which looks best? Different cape designs could also be used for alternate palettes as well.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 12, 2008, 02:07:36 AM
For the animations, here is what you need to do:

- Copy DILY.SPR (2 backups) from the BATTLE folder and TEST.EVT (1 backup) from the EVENT folder. (those are backups)
- Download & Extract TEST.rar (http://www.auritech.eu/TEST.rar)
- Use FFT Sprite Manager to load your bmp Red Mage into one of your DILY.SPR backups.
- Open CD Mage Beta, open your ISO and import the modified DILY.SPR & the TEST.EVT I gave you.
- Load the ISO with your emulator, and proceed to see the Cadets scene. Either with the Brave Story Section or proceeding through the story.
- Observe. =O

If you need more explanation on some part, ask.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 12, 2008, 02:10:16 AM
Quote from: "Kuraudo Sutoraifu"
It no problem, it not like anyone is holding a gun to your head.

I had a katana up my throat.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 12, 2008, 02:18:33 AM
Quote from: "Cheetah"
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMageCapes.png?t=1200102232

Okay here are some examples of some different cape styles along with some more polished back and side/back character views. The hat is a tad different, it was too small and not pointy enough before (may still need a little work). Thoughts on which looks best? Different cape designs could also be used for alternate palettes as well.

I think there's something you don't get. Palettes are composed of 16 different colors. You can't have a knight have something else different than the color.
But if you wouldn't use all colors, it would be possible to add a different cape design for every unused color. whoever less colors means uglier sprite and it would still be hell of a trouble.

Oh and for the Sprite Viewer; I really can't do anything, sorry.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on January 12, 2008, 04:29:32 AM
I like the middle cape.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 12, 2008, 05:00:54 AM
Quote from: "Kuraudo Sutoraifu"
I like the middle cape.

Yeah the middle cape looks good, the only problem is that it is basically the same as the design on Weigraf's cape. Since this red mage is based off his sprite, I don't want them to look any more similar than they already do.

BTW I don't know much about sprite editing, especially when it comes to actually getting it working in game. So I could use all the advice I can get. So the limitation is 16 colors on a single sprite, and those colors have to be some combination of the RGB values found on the excel sheet in this forum? How do you designate where to crop the individual frames of the sprite, and are there any demension limitations? Or best of all is there an FAQ for all this I can look at :).

Oh and Zodiac no problem about the sprite viewer. You have provided more than enough tools for me to figure out some way to get this working. The fact that I'm a Mac user just means I have a few extra hurdles, but that is part of the fun.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 12, 2008, 05:14:59 AM
Here is the question of the day though mates. What are we going to base the female Red Mage on?
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on January 12, 2008, 06:45:17 AM
I was going to base it off of Balmafula and mix in some other stuff.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 12, 2008, 07:16:53 AM
Quote from: "Kuraudo Sutoraifu"
I was going to base it off of Balmafula and mix in some other stuff.

I hadn't even thought of using her, that is a really good idea. I like her cape too. I might try using her cape, but on a different body. Was she even used in any story battles?
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Post by: Kourama on January 12, 2008, 03:12:28 PM
She isn't used in any story battles and doesn't even have her own skill set. I'm pretty sure that she has all the necessary sprites to do all of the animations possible by a regular generic character.
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Post by: VincentCraven on January 12, 2008, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: "Cheetah"
Here is the question of the day though mates. What are we going to base the female Red Mage on?

You won't need a female Red Mage for my patch, but I would assume other people want to replace some generic character for Red Mage in their patches. Balmafula is a popular sprite to alter/use.

As for your sprites, I'd say either the first or third.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 16, 2008, 10:17:51 PM
Okay everyone thanks for the feedback on the cape designs. I have decided to keep the plain cape as the standard, and the stripes as a palette swap option or something.

I have been working on getting the colors right on my rough Red Mage sprite. I can't understand the palette thing, because the values listed rarely seem to match what the actual in game sprites have. If someone wants to clarify all that for me it would be appreciated. But what I did instead was just found sprites with the colors I wanted and just took them directly from there. I also got my sprite down to only 16 colors so that it meets those restrictions. It was pretty easy and the only thing I really lost was some minor highlighting around the eye that I can't even notice zoomed out anyways. So here is the current draft:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59 ... 1200525443 (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMagepreview3.png?t=1200525443)

Nothing all that interesting, but now that I have all this figured I might have a finished sprite sheet to show off in the next few days.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 18, 2008, 09:25:17 PM
Tada 3:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59 ... 1200694766 (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMagepreview4.png?t=1200694766)

I am essentially done with my Red Mage sprite! This is just a preview, if you would like to put the sprite into the game email me at cheetah569@hotmail.com . Please post any feedback you have, there is still room for improvement on this, especially since I accidently got the final build down to 15 colors so I have an entire color I could still use. I'm a mac user so I'm a long ways from ever getting this working on my own, so if any ones wants to get this working in game I would love to see it. Just remember to email me for the real thing because this is just a preview.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on January 18, 2008, 09:30:05 PM
Good job!
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Post by: VincentCraven on January 18, 2008, 10:09:46 PM
Well done. I think you have done a wonderful job.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 18, 2008, 10:51:21 PM
Thanks guys, it definitely took a lot of work. Now hopefully things will start coming together on the implementation side of things so we can actually see these things in action (as in the attack animations working as well).
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Post by: karsten on January 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
damn! it's really professional looking!  :D
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Post by: trickstardude7 on January 18, 2008, 11:04:18 PM
Quote from: "Cheetah"
Tada 3:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59 ... 1200694766 (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/cheetah596/RedMagepreview4.png?t=1200694766)

I am essentially done with my Red Mage sprite! This is just a preview, if you would like to put the sprite into the game email me at cheetah569@hotmail.com . Please post any feedback you have, there is still room for improvement on this, especially since I accidently got the final build down to 15 colors so I have an entire color I could still use. I'm a mac user so I'm a long ways from ever getting this working on my own, so if any ones wants to get this working in game I would love to see it. Just remember to email me for the real thing because this is just a preview.


jeez its AMAZING I'm gonna mail you soon for it ^_^ now the only thing i want left is a blue mage or something  :D
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Post by: Cheetah on January 18, 2008, 11:09:35 PM
Quote from: "karsten"
ps: while singing it's wonderful :D

If you are referring to the magic casting animation I have to give props to Kuraudo for probably the best looking hat out of all of the angles.

There is a complete Blue Mage somewhere here, but I'm not sure if the colors are right and if there are too many.

Thanks for all the praise and tips. Where do you think there should be white on the cap Karsten?
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Post by: karsten on January 18, 2008, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: "Cheetah"
Quote from: "karsten"
ps: while singing it's wonderful :P maybe some simple white mark, like stilized lion or whatever... anyway, it ROCKS even without touching it!

could we see the blue mage too? ;)
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Post by: Cheetah on January 18, 2008, 11:44:57 PM
Quote from: "karsten"

on the cape i meant, not cap ;)

I tried different designs for the cape that I posted, but the best looking one was a copy of the original sprite's and I'm trying to differentiate them as much as possible. It is definitely something I will look into in the future.

Once we over come the attack animations stuff I will give a lot more thought to the next project. I could spend days touching up this sprite once I see it in action.

No matter what my next sprite will be of a female, whether red mage or blue. I don't like the fact that the male sprites are getting all of the attention.

I like your efforts to look for outside resources Karsten, lets get the ball rolling and smashing down walls. Well the obstructing kind of walls, not those handy support walls.
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Post by: VincentCraven on January 18, 2008, 11:58:08 PM
Go for the Blue Mage female. I need one of those.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 19, 2008, 01:05:30 AM
Quote from: "Cheetah"
No matter what my next sprite will be of a female, whether red mage or blue. I don't like the fact that the male sprites are getting all of the attention.

ROFL

Nice Sprite sheet, if you give me your raw image, I can test it in an emulator (I can't use the PNG, it uses 30 colors).
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Post by: karsten on January 19, 2008, 10:43:00 AM
be sure to make the F sprites sexy! :)
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Post by: Xifanie on January 19, 2008, 12:35:14 PM
Besides one little thing that you can't fix, it works perfectly.

That thing is that for an animation, the character takes a normal stance, then the charging state, then the critical state (I suppose it's an anim to bow). Basically the 1st and 2nd stance uses the normal head stance and the 3rd has the head at 60º.

It's just that the feather on the hat instantly jumps from it's normal angle to 60º; eye catchy.
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Post by: Cheetah on January 19, 2008, 05:09:50 PM
The feather probably keeps switching which side of the hat it is one too, correct? Because for the opposite angle whether front or back it just mirrors the sprite. At first I thought this would somehow me remedied because the archer isn't symmetrical, but later it occurred to me that only the arms get the benefit of having all the angles covered. That seems pretty impossible to fix.

PS: How do the legs look walking from the rear view? The original sprite did some weird stuff that I tried fixing, but I'm afraid it might have turned out horrible.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 19, 2008, 06:02:15 PM
(http://auritech.eu/Red_Mage.gif)
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Post by: trickstardude7 on January 19, 2008, 06:36:41 PM
hm zodiac how exactly do you insert the sprites into the game ??
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Post by: Zozma on January 20, 2008, 01:14:49 AM
nice red mage  8)

inserting sprites:
with a completed sprite open cd mage, open your game and go into the battle folder where all the sprites are stored. right click (wasnt it?) and it should ask if you want to insert a file into it. insert your sprite into the sprite you want to change. (if it says your file is bigger DONT do it)
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Post by: Xifanie on January 20, 2008, 02:51:26 PM
If you click Yes when the file is bigger all it will do is truncate it... and it doesn't really matter except for the the BadAlma sprite you provided since that one almost only got a palette swap, the other sprites doesn't have custom attack animations so it will fuck up anyway.

So bigger or not, it's not important right now.
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Post by: Xifanie on January 20, 2008, 03:00:55 PM
Just for the ones that might wanna test the Red Mage sprite...

I took Delita's sprite but whatever ;o

I doesn't really since attack animations will be buggy anyway.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 06, 2008, 05:41:23 AM
Tada 5 (or something):

Well here is my completed Red Mage with all the additional animations complete. If someone is able to get it so that it will all work in a spr file right now feel free to do so and post the completed sprite here. Note that minor adjustments will be needed to get it to the correct deminsions. Input is always appreciated as I plan on making additional adjustments to this guy.
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Post by: karsten on February 06, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
nice, really! now you need a portrait and a boobs munited sprite ;)
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Post by: Cheetah on February 06, 2008, 06:21:55 AM
I'm actually looking into the boob situation right now...I'll just assume you know what I mean. Yeah definitely need a portrait, at least I have a few options for faces. Does anyone know of a good way to shrink things down in photoshop and restrict the palette? Originally I'm sure the sprites were likely done by hand but it seems like the must have had some method of digitizing drawings of the portraits. Any ideas?
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Post by: Cheetah on February 11, 2008, 06:46:32 PM
Sadly I am unable to get Melonhead's new version of the sprite viewer working on my computer. So if anyone is willing to get it working with all the new animations and post it that would be great. Getting some videos of some custom sprites fulling working in an edited event battle (like the opening battle) and posting them on Youtube and the like could definitely spark some interest.
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Post by: Xifanie on February 11, 2008, 07:29:49 PM
Oh man, you did it again.

You should never extend the canvas except for editing the portrait. Then put it back at it's original size.

It's really a pain do find out the good position in the sprite sheet when it's not 256x488 anymore. :/

I'll see what I can do about this though.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 11, 2008, 07:33:29 PM
Zodiac I can fix that in a matter of seconds now that I know the dimensions (because I know where exactly it is supposed to be positioned). I will upload a new one in a couple minutes. (two minutes later) Here you go. Sorry about that, it was silly of me not to realize that it would be a real pain not to just do that myself.
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Post by: Xifanie on February 11, 2008, 08:03:03 PM
There.

If you want to make a portrait, make sure the new colors you make & use are in the 9th palette row.

Use that .bmp instead to edit. I don't want to do all the process again. 24bit PNGs are.. well annoying to convert.

Btw you had 18 colors. I don't know if it lost any quality.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 11, 2008, 08:25:53 PM
It looks like I didn't loose any quality. The colors that were out of place got replaced correctly and it looks good. Thanks Zodiac for doing that for me. I will try saving stuff as bmp from now on if that makes the process easier.

How do I designate the 9th palette row? Is there a specific format of bmp I should be saving to? I'm still very new to the sprite editing scene.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 12, 2008, 11:17:13 PM
WOOT IT WORKS!!The only thing though is that the portrait is just complete black >_< and in formation screen it doesn't show >_< man I wish that guy with the video understood english I mean he had everything!! All worked and now I'm wondering how he made it when the enemy died it turned into  stone >_<
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Post by: Xifanie on February 13, 2008, 12:14:24 AM
No need for him...

I already know where those portraits and formation units are.

But we need a program to accomplish that.

I had to delete the portrait as there was too much colors because of it.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 13, 2008, 12:16:55 AM
Quote from: "Zodiac"
No need for him...

I already know where those portraits and formation units are.

But we need a program to accomplish that.

I had to delete the portrait as there was too much colors because of it.

Oh I see!
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Post by: Xifanie on February 13, 2008, 12:17:23 AM
Quote from: "trickstardude7"
now I'm wondering how he made it when the enemy died it turned into  stone >_<

I don't remember that but simply location the 0 HP = Death routine and replacing death by petrify should be simple.
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Post by: Xifanie on February 13, 2008, 12:18:29 AM
Quote from: "trickstardude7"
Oh I see!

Me too, me gotz eYes.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 13, 2008, 12:19:39 AM
Quote from: "Zodiac"
Quote from: "trickstardude7"
Oh I see!

Me too, me gotz eYes.

Sometimes I wonder  :twisted:  

MUAHAHAHA
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on February 13, 2008, 02:59:27 AM
Quote from: "trickstardude7"
WOOT IT WORKS!!The only thing though is that the portrait is just complete black >_< and in formation screen it doesn't show >_< man I wish that guy with the video understood english I mean he had everything!! All worked and now I'm wondering how he made it when the enemy died it turned into  stone >_<

What video are you and Zodiac going on and on about?
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 13, 2008, 09:55:56 AM
its just a way to advertise while seeking help for projects  not yet completed, and who knows maybe someone has something already created
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Post by: Sen on February 13, 2008, 12:27:13 PM
can Tiamat's Tripple Flame become double or just stays in one place like other spells.

It will be a good and unique skill for Red Mage if it could be done.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 13, 2008, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: "Sen"
can Tiamat's Tripple Flame become double or just stays in one place like other spells.

It will be a good and unique skill for Red Mage if it could be done.

What Do ya mean?? like its not random hits and everywhere in the effect area gets hit??
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Post by: Sen on February 13, 2008, 02:10:43 PM
That's not it!

what I meant is Triple Flame will just hit at 1 spot just like Flare and Holy
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 13, 2008, 04:12:44 PM
Quote from: "Sen"
That's not it!

what I meant is Triple Flame will just hit at 1 spot just like Flare and Holy
oh the effect rangd just mess around with the FFT Patcher
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Post by: Cheetah on February 14, 2008, 09:35:52 PM
Well I finally got CDMage working so that I can finally actually see my custom sprites in action (note: use the latest CDMage Beta version 1.02). So now that I have seen the Red Mage in action I have a few concerns and wanted to know if anyone else had notice. I replaced the male squire with my Red Mage and I noticed that if he was taking a knee from an injury there was a little brown line above him if you saw him from the front. Also while doing a sword attack there was a huge red line above him (not sure from what angle). It is clear that this is due to the fact that different parts of the sprite are running into eachother space.

I was wondering if anyone else was having difficulties with this and if it had to do with my inserting the sprite incorrectly, the fact that I replace it with the squire, or if I have to adjust the placement of the sprite?

UPDATE: I figured it out. The bmp that was converted was one pixel lower than it should have been, my bad. This can be updated and fixed once I have a portrait to included as well.
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Post by: Sen on February 15, 2008, 12:18:03 AM
I have been drawing a Red Mage all day and then I have already finished it if only I have a scanner I can show it to all of you :D

I'm planing of using it's face for the portrait because Weigraf's portrait looks older than generic jobs and it doesn't suit to be.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 15, 2008, 12:40:40 AM
I would definitely be happy to see what you came up with.
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Post by: Sen on February 15, 2008, 12:59:44 AM
I'm not good at drawing esp. the arms but the important thing is the face for the portrait.
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Post by: Sen on February 15, 2008, 06:11:10 AM
things that are stuck in my mind

Making triple flame to double flame and renaming and making skills for Red Mage.
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Post by: Sen on February 21, 2008, 02:08:34 PM
i know now how to make Red Mage double magic!!
just set Rafa or Malak's skill's formula to the spell and put 2 at X

like this
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/Beowulf13/Formula.jpg)[/img]
X for this formula is for how many hits but randomly.
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Post by: Kyari on February 21, 2008, 05:53:03 PM
Wouldn't increasing the Y modifier substancially result in an artifial "Forced" high 2x rate by that formula?
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Post by: VincentCraven on February 21, 2008, 09:58:47 PM
Quote from: "Sen"
i know now how to make Red Mage double magic!!
just set Rafa or Malak's skill's formula to the spell and put 2 at X

like this...

I thought of that too, but the beauty behind Doublecast is being able to cast two different spells in one turn, not two of the same.
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Post by: Kyari on February 21, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
Why not just skip the likely impossible task of Double Cast and go with shorter spell cast times to imitate Fast Cast?
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Post by: VincentCraven on February 22, 2008, 01:05:42 AM
Do you mean innate: Short Charge? That's still debatable.
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Post by: karsten on February 22, 2008, 06:12:31 AM
Quote from: "VincentCraven"
Do you mean innate: Short Charge? That's still debatable.
in the patch i was working on red mage had innate short charge.
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Post by: Kyari on February 22, 2008, 04:53:42 PM
Innate would be somewhat broken, just do like every other job has and make it a costly JP earned latent effect.

When making mods like this, it's easy to let desire overcome balance.
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on February 22, 2008, 05:22:54 PM
But having short charge learnable from Time Mage and Red Mage sounds silly and redundant and silly.

Is there no way to make it actually doublecast?  Maybe some study could be put into Rafa and Malak's abilities to see how they fire multiple times.
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Post by: karsten on February 22, 2008, 09:21:20 PM
having innate short charge on red mage is not broken at all. try and see... it's all up to the multipliers. lower the magic mults and the brokeness is gone.

also innate doesn't mean learnable, kuraudo.
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Post by: Kyari on February 22, 2008, 10:38:35 PM
Quote from: "Kuraudo Sutoraifu"
But having short charge learnable from Time Mage and Red Mage sounds silly and redundant and silly.

Is there no way to make it actually doublecast?  Maybe some study could be put into Rafa and Malak's abilities to see how they fire multiple times.

That's kind of like saying "having Cure and basic black magics on White Mage/Black Mage and Red Mage sounds silly and redundant and silly."
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Post by: VincentCraven on February 24, 2008, 08:02:29 AM
Quote from: "karsten"
having innate short charge on red mage is not broken at all. try and see... it's all up to the multipliers. lower the magic mults and the brokeness is gone.

also innate doesn't mean learnable, kuraudo.

Yep, like Mime has innate Martial Arts, but Monk isn't complaining.

And I'm not worried so much about Red Mage being 'broken' so much as what attributes Red Mage should really have.  Considering Red Mage only has the lower level skills in his skill set, Short Charge isn't terribly useful for him; however, it probably will be very useful for his secondary skillset (Summon?). Still, Short Charge makes the most sense on Red Mage.

Well, just to clarify, I think Short Charge on Red Mage is debatable.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on February 24, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
But if this class contains weak spells, I don't see the problem
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Post by: Xifanie on February 24, 2008, 02:59:26 PM
Short Charge hardly makes a difference early on.

And if he's stuck with basic spells, at least give em an advantage.

IMO Red Mage with Magic Attack Up should be weaker than a Black Mage & a bit strongerthan the White Mage.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 24, 2008, 04:41:44 PM
Personally I think the short charge thing can be something we discuss later on once we get more of the Red Mage's skills working and can thoroughly test them.

What I really want to see is getting double cast working. At first I thought it would be too overpowering but with some constraints I think it might work out.
1) Double Cast as an attack that only the Red Mage can do with certain spells and not a support skill that anyone can use. What I'm worried about is seeing Holy and Flare being double casted all day.
2) That if a spell is double casted it only effects one square/unit. Whether it is Fire or Fira, the spell with only hit one spot.
3) I like the idea of being able to use two different spells or target two different units with each spell, I just don't know how this would be implemented.
All these points are debatable and I think we should just start off with a badass Red Mage and slowly just implement these different things till we get to the point of equilibrium.

It would also be great if the spells you learned as a white and black mage carried over. So that if you had already learned Fira as a Black Mage it would already be learned as a Red Mage. And if you hadn't learned Raise as a White Mage then it would cost the same JP as a Red Mage and when you learned it there it would also be learned for the White Mage.

Also an idea for a support move could be something that raised the amount of available mp by 50% or 100%. It would be kind of pointless considering the support ability to cut the mp cost of in half, but maybe this skill would cost less JP or something.

Those are just my thoughts. I just want to see a really unique but balanced Red Mage put into action.
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Post by: Kyari on February 24, 2008, 06:45:42 PM
Maybe as a compromise  to relearning spells (and being restricted to the weakest of the weak), remake spells so they only hit one panel (higher than mediocre but probably still not the top tier of spells)? That way you're still getting some practical use out of them, but not enough to break the game.
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Post by: VincentCraven on February 24, 2008, 07:48:47 PM
Cheetah,
If we ever do get Double Cast to work (don't count on it), I would only allow Red Magic to be double casted. Double Cast would probably end up replacing Math Skill, thus the 'spell book' would rely on skills learned as a Black/White Mage, limited to 'Red Magic' like Fire2, Raise, etc.

Considering the alternatives, I guess Red Mage can't really have a second support that makes him good. Are we using Red Mage as a special class? If not, I would think that his equip options and versatile skillset would be enough.

Though if Red Mage is going to be "a bit strongerthan the White Mage" with Magic Attack Up, he could use Short Charge. I'm just worried that we may overshadow White Mage. Btw, are we renaming Short Charge to "Fast Cast"?
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Post by: karsten on February 25, 2008, 06:11:43 AM
in my idea red mage's skill should be made so to be a good secondary...
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Post by: Cheetah on February 28, 2008, 05:09:14 AM
I am getting so frustrated with these freaking portraits. I'm just having zero success so far. So then I try to work on the male Blue Mage and I'm hitting complete dead ends with that as well. So I was using this peice of art from the FF3 remake as a basis for my own portrait but decided to shrink it down and see how it would look in 16 colors. The one good thing about it is that it is by the same artist as all the other portraits I believe. It looks fine at a high resolution but it's flaws and roughness will probably really show up at the resolution the game is running at. But maybe people want to use it as a filler. I don't know I'm just trying to come up with something to show and discuss in the hopes that I will get some inspiration.
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Post by: karsten on February 28, 2008, 06:11:01 AM
Quote from: "Cheetah"
I am getting so frustrated with these freaking portraits. I'm just having zero success so far. So then I try to work on the male Blue Mage and I'm hitting complete dead ends with that as well. So I was using this peice of art from the FF3 remake as a basis for my own portrait but decided to shrink it down and see how it would look in 16 colors. The one good thing about it is that it is by the same artist as all the other portraits I believe. It looks fine at a high resolution but it's flaws and roughness will probably really show up at the resolution the game is running at. But maybe people want to use it as a filler. I don't know I'm just trying to come up with something to show and discuss in the hopes that I will get some inspiration.

why don't you try working from elmdor's sprite? just add a cap! :D
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Post by: Sen on February 28, 2008, 08:36:28 AM
Hey I based my drawing to FF3's red mage.
from this
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/Beowulf13/91713_FF3_Jobs.jpg)

I'm still practicing on it and making it unique :) It will be also good if it looks more like an FFT character.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 28, 2008, 08:32:58 PM
Okay with a bit of renewed vigor I took on the Red Mage portrait again. I also finally took Karsten's advice about basing something off of the Oracle, though I used his portrait instead of the actual sprite. The hat took a lot of work and I hate the angle. I'm also having trouble finding good red shades, I'm open to lots of suggestions in that department. I'm very happy with the white of the scarf, I got very stuck on that the last time I tried this. The hat still needs lots of work, but I have some good ideas. I posted my version with my attempt at the colors on the left and what I was editing from on the right so people could experiment with their own shades to help me out. Feedback/suggestions?

EDIT: Okay so I made some changes and this is where I am at now. I think it looks significantly better, plus this is actually in 16 colors.
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Post by: karsten on February 29, 2008, 06:11:49 AM
i like the first one! :) good work, really
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Post by: Kuraudo Sutoraifu on February 29, 2008, 04:44:10 PM
Test1 look really great!
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Post by: Austin on February 29, 2008, 08:46:33 PM
That looks great! It should fit quite nicely with the other portraits already in the game.
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Post by: Cheetah on February 29, 2008, 09:01:57 PM
Test1 does look good, I just kind of feel like it is kind of cheating and will likely look really out of place in game since it is art from a different game. For now I'm going to continue to work on making test3 look better and see what I can come up with. Looking at it now it is clear that the hat is far too small, especially since the art style is all about huge everythings. So I will see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
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Post by: Zozma on March 01, 2008, 12:47:26 AM
test 3 definately fits the game the best so far
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Post by: Sen on March 08, 2008, 12:46:31 PM
I have now completed my Red Mage portrait!!

Is it good or not enough?
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Post by: VincentCraven on March 08, 2008, 01:32:18 PM
Once you have changed the neckerchief to white, I probably will think it is fine. However, it does look a bit off.
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Post by: Austin on March 08, 2008, 02:23:12 PM
The hat looks like its made of plastic, but it looks pretty good otherwise. Could we still do anything with Cheetah's? It practically looked done.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on March 08, 2008, 04:03:41 PM
Try a bt more of a dark palette perhaps and add some texture to the feather perhaps

Hmm I attempted a weird Portrait it isn't much but I am going to change it some more to remove the zalbaag look, I just thought the turban horn looked cool          edit-
critisism is always welcome so i can improve!
(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7761/redmagetrylq1.png)
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Post by: Austin on March 08, 2008, 11:37:34 PM
Well, I don't really know what you're going for with it, but if you wanted Zalbag with a horn thing on his head then I'd say mission accomplished, looks good to me. :P
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Post by: Sen on March 09, 2008, 12:20:24 AM
I improved the hat a little but I think it needs a little more texture and the only thing i havn't done yet is his neckerchief which confused me when I tried editing it.
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Post by: Austin on March 09, 2008, 12:24:41 AM
That definitely looks a lot better, he should look pretty good with a little more work.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on March 09, 2008, 12:25:02 AM
Looks good now  :D
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Post by: Sen on March 09, 2008, 04:37:29 PM
Can someone help me with his neckerchief I'm so confused of changing thier colors?  :cry:
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Post by: Zozma on March 09, 2008, 09:35:09 PM
haha looking at that zalbag/ horn thing if you gave him a bandana and made it go over one eye hed make a good looking pirate..
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Post by: trickstardude7 on March 09, 2008, 11:37:12 PM
Quote from: "Zozma"
haha looking at that zalbag/ horn thing if you gave him a bandana and made it go over one eye hed make a good looking pirate..
hm now that you mention XD .. hm now i would like to see a pirate class made!
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Post by: huthutchuck on March 11, 2008, 04:36:58 AM
AAAAaaaaaaaaarrrrg!!!  Pirate class, sounds like Dragonquest.  Although I always felt that humans had little access to "water" elemental abilities.  It would sure help against those bombs.
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Post by: Zozma on March 29, 2008, 09:26:35 AM
okay so the redmage sprite is nice, but are there more updates to it? there were a few glitches when i used it... when you strike with a sword theres a line over the top from whatever frame is above...

overall tho its a great sprite :D
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Post by: Cheetah on April 02, 2008, 08:36:29 PM
Now that I'm back working on the Red Mage portrait will be my first order of business. I will do some touchups to Sen's and I will also continue to work on mine. The glitches with the Red Mage sprite are just because it was inserted one pixel too low and will be fixed when the portrait is finalized.

Edit:
Okay Sen here is your portrait with a white kerchef. Do not that the actual game sprites are not the same size or "resolution" since the base that you are working off of is basically a double sized blowup. So I'm not sure how it will shrink down. I like what you have done with the hat, but I'm going to keep working my own. Oh and I have no idea how many colors you are using and I made no changes other than the colors of the kerchef.
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Post by: Sen on April 03, 2008, 10:35:11 AM
I used 20 colors changing green to red then adding 3 diff red and one gray.
I will still edit it though because it must only be 16 colors am I right?I will change also his face because it still Beowulf.

Thank you for the help!!
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Post by: Cheetah on April 03, 2008, 01:07:38 PM
16 colors is correct.
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Post by: Cheetah on April 05, 2008, 06:32:38 AM
Oh man portraits are a pain. So much work for so little pay off. The original art is just so good, and it is so hard to capture the ammount of texture that is found in the original portraits. But here is my latest attempt at a portrait for my Red Mage. I think this is about as good as I'm going to get it and I'm pretty happy with it. It still isn't down to 16 colors, but it shouldn't be too hard. Input/suggestions/criticisms are always appreciated.
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Post by: kenj_083 on April 05, 2008, 06:46:00 AM
I think that the hat is a bit too "3-D" for a 2-D game like FFT.
It's still very good though. Well done, Cheetah!  :)
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Post by: Sen on April 05, 2008, 07:32:25 AM
The hat's lighting and shadow are misplaced the dark part should be at the back.

check what I've done to the hat of my portrait.
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Post by: Cheetah on April 05, 2008, 07:41:00 AM
Sen: The hat I was using as a base had the shading like that because the "cap" part of the hat is supposed to kind of have a spade like shape if you were looking at it from the top. Hard to explain without pictures. But the shading in the front is supposed to represent the hat kind of scooping in before coming back out. But with just a limited section of the hat visible I don't think the effect is captured. I will likely have to change it to something similar to what you are doing.

Kenj: The shading is a little too detailed making it seem too three dimensional. By eliminating one of my shades of red I hope to remedy the problem somewhat.

Thank you for your input.
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Post by: LastingDawn on April 05, 2008, 08:40:02 AM
Aww.... may I say your current Red Mage looks positively adorable! Well done, with it currently. It doesn't look a bit like Beowulf any longer, but the face looks familiar, but I can't recall from where...
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Post by: Sen on April 05, 2008, 08:41:54 AM
It's the oracles face

EDIT:I just made the portrait from Beowulf because he has a neckerchief and  
he's my favorite character :)
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Post by: Zozma on April 05, 2008, 09:45:45 AM
good faces to use are the commoners faces because no one ever really sees them so they wont look fermiliar...

i dont know if anyone noticed but my red headed replacement for Alicia, mysty, was made from the portrait of "20yo woman"
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Post by: VincentCraven on April 05, 2008, 12:38:18 PM
Cheetah, your Red Mage portrait is beautiful. I must have! :)
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Post by: Cheetah on April 05, 2008, 05:17:36 PM
I'm glad you don't think he looks like Beowulf anymore because the Red Mage Sprite is based off of him and I don't want them to be too similar.

It is the Oracle's face. I choose it because he had a good neck to fit into the kerchief, the hair color I needed, and already had a hat on. Though it is true that using the rarer portraits as a base is probably better.
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Post by: Zozma on April 06, 2008, 04:29:45 AM
i like the oracle based red mage portrait to the beowulf version. ill definately be using it, you cant really tell it was an oracle it just looks so professionally done as if it always existed.
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Post by: Sen on April 06, 2008, 06:15:00 AM
My Red Mage portrait with 20 yr old male's face
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Post by: Zozma on April 06, 2008, 07:06:48 AM
see... you cant tell who it was, and cant even recognize it as parts of one of the generic origional jobs portraits :P
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Post by: Austin on April 06, 2008, 07:11:58 AM
Nice, they're both good! Now it'll be hard to pick which one I want though. :lol:
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Post by: Sen on April 06, 2008, 08:01:28 AM
He doesn't look like Zodiac eiter because I made his mouth straight.
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Post by: Zozma on April 07, 2008, 10:46:22 AM
so amazing what you can do with original portraits...
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Post by: Xifanie on April 07, 2008, 11:07:56 AM
Hehe, very impressive. :)
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Post by: Sen on April 07, 2008, 06:27:53 PM
I'm done now at reducing to 16 colors.
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Post by: Vanya on April 07, 2008, 06:30:12 PM
That middle red gradient seems a little too grey-ish.
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Post by: Cheetah on April 11, 2008, 04:32:48 AM
Zozma: Your Portraits are just rediculously good. The highlights on the bangs of the top portrait seem a little off though. I'm not quite sure what needs to be done to them, but it looks good as is too.

Sen: You are making good progress on your portrait, I'm still just waiting for you to shrink it down to the in game resolution. Because right now you are working with something that is twice the size of the actual thing.

Question: Does the tan background color count as one of the 16 colors available for the portrait sprite?
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Post by: Zozma on April 11, 2008, 04:36:23 AM
the top left portrait, due to the pink hair color her bangs are a little bit difficult to edit, its possible that thats as close as i can get if i keep the hair color exactly the same, but i can look into that later...

as far as that tan color being part of it, yes it sure is one of the 16 colors, that must always be in the same location too the first color and it always has to be the same color or the portrait will be bugged.
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Post by: Cheetah on April 11, 2008, 04:52:52 AM
Uhg that is annoying about the tan taking up a color, I guess that is the nature of the beast.

Maybe your lightest shade of purple/pink is just a little too light creating too much contrast? I ran into a similar problem picking my lightest white for the Red Mage scarf, and I'm not even sure I am completely satisfied with the current shade.
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Post by: Sen on April 11, 2008, 06:28:52 AM
I've already shrinked my portrait and here it is.
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Post by: Cheetah on April 11, 2008, 06:40:18 AM
It looks good Sen. I especially like the gold band on the hat. I haven't had much luck with that and have just ended up taking it out of my latest attempts to allow for more colors. I might as well show my latest Red Mage Portrait as well. I'm definitely really happy with it. What other tweeks to people think it needs?
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Post by: Sen on April 11, 2008, 10:53:48 AM
You definatley based it from FF3's RedMage hat with that curve on the hat
that might be the reason why it is difficult to put the golden band.

but you see it doesn't need any colors at all because I used the face's color for that.
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Post by: Sen on April 11, 2008, 11:58:19 AM
I've now inserte the RedMage portrait thanks to Zozma. :D

but was there any way of viewing the actual sprite in the formation screen?
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Post by: Zozma on April 12, 2008, 10:52:41 AM
right now no, this is probably the most well known problem with custom, and npc sprites for now. because the images are not read out of the battle folder

btw im liking the portrait :) the fact that you cant really tell the face came from another character makes it even better.
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Post by: Sen on April 12, 2008, 12:49:57 PM
But this video shows that even in the formation screen it is still present there the sprite and also the portrait.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_ZzdBjQnug
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Post by: trickstardude7 on April 12, 2008, 02:00:47 PM
as zozma said its not possible RIGHT now for this forum because we dont know how to
  but i messaged the guy from that video and he never responded
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Post by: Lydyn on April 12, 2008, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: "Sen"
But this video shows that even in the formation screen it is still present there the sprite and also the portrait.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_ZzdBjQnug

You know how seriously messed up all that looks? lol ... his knights turned into ninjas when they attacked. I mean, he obviously knows something, but not enough for it to be crisp and clean like whoever made the editor was trying to do. Chances are, we may even know how to do that without knowing we do .. it just hasn't occured to anyone because it'd be all glitchy or something.

:P As cool as that one, I'd rather it not look all glitchy in my game, thanks. xD I'll admit that is very talented of him though.. he probably used raw Hex Editing or Gameshark Codes. I'm sure someone here will figure it out eventually. ^_^
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Post by: Cheetah on April 12, 2008, 06:24:49 PM
I thought I remember Zodiac once mentioning that he did know how to do this. I obviously could be wrong though.
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Post by: Xifanie on April 12, 2008, 11:53:14 PM
He just replaced a currently existing generic job (I haven't seen the video though).

If his unit turns back to what it was previously on attacking, that means he didn't use shishi sprite editor.  :wink:

All we have to do is take the corresponding sprite in UNIT.BIN and change it. I have never done this tough, as I don't have a program to do that and manually would be a real pain.
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Post by: Zozma on April 13, 2008, 12:06:24 AM
that would be a cakewalk for me if i only had a way to extract and reinsert the unit spritesheet.... from what i hear tho, it wouldn't be possible to add in every single npc to that sheet tho. from what i hear there is exactly one for every character thats ever seen in the menu. that also means for example how gafgarion has two sprites, both of them access the same single menu sprite
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Post by: Vanya on April 13, 2008, 12:13:59 AM
I imagine that shi shi should be able to edit the Unit.bin sprites without much trouble. I doubt that Square would go to the trouble (and extra production time) to encode the unit sprite differently than the battle ones. It should just be a matter of finding their offsets in the unit file, but I figure only melon knows for sure.
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Post by: Xifanie on April 13, 2008, 12:14:51 AM
Simon's in there, as well as two other Priest and a pigtailed little girl. Those are the only ones not used and only Simon is easily accessible for your party. We'd have to modify the links somehow to use the rest.
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Post by: Zozma on April 13, 2008, 12:28:58 AM
yeah and as for the pig tailed girl, it looks like whatever it was was in the pre stages of being drawn. but i plan to add teta in so since its linked to her already....
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Post by: Lydyn on April 13, 2008, 01:13:17 AM
Not sure I understand half of what's going on, but if guys figure an easy way for me to edit in my Heavenly & Chaos Knights into the formation screen and battle set-up, I'll be extremely grateful. ^_^
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Post by: Zozma on April 13, 2008, 02:43:24 AM
im sure in time it will be available to us... with the rise of such a great sprite editor the demand for that has increased drastically.....
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Post by: Cheetah on April 14, 2008, 05:20:14 AM
Just so everyone can see what is being discussed now here is what the UNIT.BIN file looks like. This is where the sprites in the formation and party screen are taken from. The palette I am using here is for the mysterious pigtailed girl who as far as I know doesn't appear anywhere else (second row down near the middle). It is pretty cool and that is how she is supposed to look, so apparently she may be of the same race as Rafa and Malak. It is also interesting that one of the Zodiac monsters is also in here, when there is no reason for that unless he was to join your party.
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Post by: Zozma on April 14, 2008, 06:39:27 AM
wow, youd almost need a second sheet if you inteded to make every special appear correctly....

well provided that you correct the pigtail girl to look like teta who shes assigned to (i would because i intend to make her obtainable later) then you have like 3 other sprites here that i havent seen assigned to anyone except the young priest assigned to alma....

and IF you assign celia and lede to the dancer sprite that makes 2 less specials that look super glitchy...... one of the sprites looks like zalmo, is that one even linked to him correctly? i dont recall that... and then there is serpentarius... what the heck is he doing there? i mean i already knew he had a menu sprite but why? at any rate, one step in the right direction would be to have a way to assign which sprite each character is linked to in the first place. well i see possability to add in at least 3 new specials, and more if you intend to leave a few story characters that never join or are never seen in menu, out... like olan or balmafula... sigh and this thing doesnt look any larger than a normal sprite sheet. hmm also ultima demons never join and if you got rid of bybilos as a party memeber then nothing using the apanda sprite would be needed in menu either.

and Lydyn if your characters look like new color palette bard and dancer you could probably find a way to change their palettes to match...
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Post by: Cheetah on April 14, 2008, 06:58:48 AM
Well I think there are quite a few you could technically write over, if you are counting the ones that never appear in the formation or party screen normally.

You could use Alma and the princess, because neither of them appear there I believe. All four of the weird priests. Oran/Olan, because he never joins your party or is a guest of your party, he is just a guest in some of the battles. Pigtail girl. Plus Serpentarius. And if a project gets rid of an original job for a new one, then they can just put the new party sprite there as well. So there is some wiggle room here.

If you want every character that already has a battle sprite to be playable then obviously not all those options are viable.
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Post by: Zozma on April 14, 2008, 07:41:10 AM
-Edit- OMG look! it works it actually works, you can rename UNIT.BIN as
"UNIT.SPR" and open it in shimsham sprite editor! (has no color palette BUT you can save changes and put it back in.

just do this: Open the edior, open the unit file renamed as a spr file
save its color palette and then import the color palette of the character u want to put in. paste it with the exact same colors there and then import the origional unit.bin color palette (which is all black) and save and import!

now all we need is a way to assign which sprite uses which secion of this sprite sheet :D

in this screenshot i changed pigtails girl into the matching battle sprite which is really teta. i used my snes pal to change the 17th color palette to match the change.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on April 14, 2008, 09:57:18 AM
now would this work well in the job change wheel!? but i wonder if you could extend the sheet.
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Post by: LastingDawn on April 14, 2008, 10:00:32 AM
Hmm, which character is the odd colored Ramza? Also is there any hope to add in Zalbag or Dycedarg, Funeral even? Last I checked they each have a plain Ramza sprite.
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Post by: Zozma on April 14, 2008, 10:00:45 AM
this change also applies to the job wheel, it uses the same image :)

the odd colored ramza is Lede, actually thats my full version of teta using the duplicate lede sprite slot. there IS a chance of adding in characters like funeral or zalbag, BUT we have to find a way to edit which section of this image each character uses. obviously those characters never had an assignment since they werent used, therefore im guessing the value is "00" telling the game to display ramza's sprite. as for the portraits? well thats another story, but they would also require a value change to display the correct picture.

not only that, but this sprite editor can also open eventchr.bin AND effect files by using the same method... unfortunately youll only be able to see a spritesheet sized portion.
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Post by: trickstardude7 on April 14, 2008, 10:05:33 AM
AWESOME
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Post by: Zozma on April 14, 2008, 10:40:14 AM
IF more work is done on this editor or perhaps a separate one based off of it is made, then it may be possible in the future to edit spell effect files. it can open them now actually if you rename them as .spr or .sp2 but they are still compressed i tried an experiment with moogle summons, i took the image, and flipped mogs picture upside down and saved everything back in.. sigh doesnt work like the unit.bin did tho and the game froze.
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Post by: Xifanie on April 14, 2008, 11:26:10 AM
You don't need to rename it; just type the name of the file in the Open file prompt.
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Post by: Lydyn on April 14, 2008, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: "Zozma"
just do this: Open the edior, open the unit file renamed as a spr file save its color palette and then import the color palette of the character u want to put in. paste it with the exact same colors there and then import the origional unit.bin color palette (which is all black) and save and import!

.... I'm sorry, I must sound like an idiot, but those directions just confuse the hell out of me. >.< I know when I edited my sprites, I opened them up and edited what was called the Colormap because the Palette was uneditable for some reason and I just saved over whatever they had. So, I'm totally confused by these direction - sorry! I'm also using GIMP if that helps any, since I can't get Photoshop right now and paint is just stupid.

Edit: Might also help to know I exported the BitMap images and edited those for the Battle Sprites, and didn't even mess with the palette options.
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Post by: Zozma on April 14, 2008, 08:39:55 PM
okay let me try to explain again eherm.. not too good at this:

1) Extract Unit.BIN and type that file name into the sprite editor to open it.

2) Extract the color palette, even tho its all black so you have a backup of it.

3) Import the color palette of the character that you are going to add to this    
    unit sheet.

4) Now that you can see the sprites extract the file as a bmp  and paste a copy of the character you wanted to add, with the exact same color palette you just imported.

5) Save that import your newly editted bmp file and then import the origional unit color palette. then save it.

6) Import this over the unit.bin (always back up files you experiment on first tho) and then open the game and test it out. you'll notice that the color palette is probably the wrong one. im not sure if anyone else would know how to change it with another program BUT, i used snes pal to open unit.bin went to address 00F000 this is the beginning of all the different color palettes for the sprites, for example, Teta is linked to the pigtailed girl sprite so i looked on the sprite sheet to see that in a row she was sprite number 17, i started at address 00F000 and scrolled thru and found that blue gold and brown color palette as the 17th palette.
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Post by: Lydyn on April 14, 2008, 09:23:36 PM
I don't understand from #3 and on, sorry.  :? I don't know how to import color palettes... or where to import them or how to do anything with them. Like I said, I messed with the Colormap, not the palette.. or whatever.
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Post by: Xifanie on April 14, 2008, 10:15:17 PM
Palette
---------
Export
Import

However Zozma forgot to say that you need to load the sprite sheet of the character you want, export it, then you can load UNIT.BIN and import that palette.
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Post by: Lydyn on April 14, 2008, 10:48:26 PM
Ugh... maybe screen shots would help? What I did was...


Now, while nothing glitched at all, and it works fine ... the colors in game are messed up. The new bard image is all icky brown and pure white instead of the silvery-white and grey. Zozma said something about palettes at the end, but.. I didn't quite understad what he ment.. as I'm assuming that's what I did wrong?

Edit: Okay, I found the HTML thingy Zozma was talking about I think. When you change it to a different code, the whole background changes, right? But... I don't know what I should do with it to make my Heavenly Knight appear normal.  :cry:

Edit-Edit: Nevermind! All I was doing was editing the colors... *sigh* So, I'm still at a loss on what to do.
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Post by: Zozma on April 15, 2008, 03:07:51 AM
okay.. one moment let me try this again :) (nice portrait who is it?)

first picture:
open unit.bin and select palette and save that.(i still renamed it to unit.spr)

picture two:
open the sprite that you want to use (here its teta) do the same thing, save her palette as well. export her picture into bmp form and copy that forward diagnol direction.

now third picture:
Open the unit.bin and go to palette and open the teta(example) palette you saved as you can see now they all appear to have her colors.
now export that file as a bmp too and paste the copy of tetas forward diagnol animation over one of the spries in the unit sheet ( pasted it over pigtailed girl because teta's sprite is linked to that one.)
you're almost done, but now you need to re-import the unit.bin's color palette so everything looks black again.
save it and then go back in with cd mage or whatever and import that file back into the the unit.bin file within the game.
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Post by: Lydyn on April 15, 2008, 06:35:53 AM
*Throws arms up* I followed your directions exactly and all I'm getting is a default bard sprite ... like I didn't even do anything!

This is literally what I did, step for step;

Sprite Editor: File -> Open: UNIT.BIN
• Sprite Editor: Palette -> Save: UNITBIN.PAL
• Sprite Editor: File -> Open: GIN_M.SPR
• Sprite Editor: Palette -> Save: HEAVENLY.PAL
• Sprite Editor: File -> Export: Bard_Heavenly.BMP
• Right-clicked on Bard_Heavenly.BMP -> Open With: GIMP
• GIMP: Selected the right-forward position exactly
• GIMP: Edit -> Cut/Copy (They do the same thing)
• Sprite Editor: File -> Open: UNIT.BIN
• Sprite Editor: Palette -> Open: HEAVENLY.PAL
• Sprite Editor: File -> Export: UNIT_HEAVENLY.BMP
• Right-clicked on UNIT_HEAVENLY.BMP -> Open With: GIMP
• GIMP: Edit-> Paste
• GIMP: Moved copied sprite over the Bard
• GIMP: File -> Save (UNIT_HEAVENLY.BMP)
• Sprite Editor: File -> Import: UNIT_HEAVENLY.BMP
• Sprite Editor: Palette -> Open: UNITBIN.PAL
• Sprite Editor: File -> Save As: UNIT.BIN
• CD Mage: Open FFT.img
• CD Mage: Open Events Folder
• CD Mage: Right-click UNIT.BIN and select Import: UNIT.BIN
• Close CD Mage
• Start FFT ISO[/list]

Absolutly no change what-so-ever ... *Sigh* Can you tell me what I did wrong?

P.S. I have no clue who's portrait it is.. but it's nice. ^_^
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Post by: kenj_083 on April 15, 2008, 06:52:25 AM
Quote from: "Lydyn"
P.S. I have no clue who's portrait it is.. but it's nice. ^_^
It is Aliste's sprite from the psp version.
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Post by: Zozma on April 15, 2008, 08:51:31 AM
what the heck was i thinking... you pasted this over the normal bard sprite?

ugh if so.... then all you really have to do is change the corresponding color palette inside of unit.bin to match your new bards color palette exactly.....

you probably didn't mess up at all if you did no pixel changes to your bard like sprite....

count across and down all of the sprites to figure out which palette it is.
(pigtailed girl/teta was the 17th palette).

i dont know if you have a way to access the colors in unit.bin but i do by using "snespal" all of the palettes starting with ramza start at address "00F000" and of course the palette for your custom sprite with the same program is address "000000"
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Post by: Sen on April 15, 2008, 09:55:42 AM
GIMP that is what I'm using now.

and hey you can download it for free maybe it can help those who have difficulties in making sprites or even portraits for viewing the color map.
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Post by: Zozma on April 15, 2008, 11:00:09 AM
thanks for the info, ill give it a try.
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Post by: Sen on April 15, 2008, 01:55:56 PM
Are you ok with FFTA style Blue Mage? or should I make a new design?

its not yet finished!!
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Post by: Lydyn on April 15, 2008, 05:01:24 PM
Quote
count across and down all of the sprites to figure out which palette it is.
(pigtailed girl/teta was the 17th palette).

i dont know if you have a way to access the colors in unit.bin but i do by using "snespal" all of the palettes starting with ramza start at address "00F000" and of course the palette for your custom sprite with the same program is address "000000"

I cannot express how much that still confuses me. Maybe it is a good idea you download GIMP and can tell me step-by-step what to do ... 'cause I'm a really visual person and have no clue what all this freakin' palette business is about. Sorry. :cry:
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Post by: Cheetah on April 15, 2008, 09:19:57 PM
Sen: I'm liking the Blue Mage sprite, I think it would get more attention if you posted it in a different forum thread though. The only thing I would recommend working on is the hat. The feather looks great, just make the crown look more like a hat/turban.
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Post by: Lydyn on April 15, 2008, 09:36:20 PM
Oh.. dear.. sorry guys! I totally derailed this completely off-topic. Sorry! I moved our discussion so you guys can get back on topic. ^_^
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Post by: Kheldarn on April 23, 2008, 06:29:34 AM
Well, I'm sure you know by now, but you're pasting the Bard over the Bard. That's not gonna change anything. You have to paste the Bard over the character you want to replace. Also, since there's already a Bard, there's not much point to pasting in a second one.

Instead of pasting the existing Bard over the existing Bard, paste an edited or a different sprite over the Bard. THEN you'll notice a change.

Also, while you're in your image editor (GIMP, in your case), you need to import the Bard's palette, to ensure that the sprite you're importing has the colors you want. I use PSP 9, so I know nothing about how you'd go about importing a palette in GIMP. You can always just re-open UNIT.BIN in Shishi, import the Bard's palette (that you saved as HEAVENLY.PAL), then export UNIT.BMP.

After you've pasted the new sprite over the Bard, and made sure the palette is how you want it, save it, import it into UNIT.BIN with Shishi, then re-import the UNITBIN.PAL file.
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Post by: Lydyn on April 23, 2008, 06:53:46 AM
Uh, yeah ... we moved this topic a while ago now, as to not distract from the main point of the topic. ^^
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Post by: Cheetah on April 26, 2008, 08:03:03 PM
Okay so this Red Mage is almost done, I finally got all the programs here running so things are moving along quickly. Right now I'm just figuring out the alternate palette colors. I have 4 of 5 so far and wanted everyone's thoughts on it. For the final palette I thought I would ask for submissions, just to give everyone a chance to contribute since palette swaps are quite easy.

Rules:
1) This is a palette swap so if you change a color, you need to change every pixel of that color or it wont work.
2) Only change the colors, moving pixels around would make it no longer a palette swap.
3) To be considered you have to adjust the sprite and the portrait to match up.
4) I don't care what programs you use, but please post you submission in this thread as a PNG or a BMP. Absolutely NO JPEG.
5) I will post a BMP of the main stances and the portrait for use of submissions, please submit in this format.
6) Ummm lets say 3 days to submit (subject to change).
7) This is ment as a way to bring the community together, but if people don't want to participate I will just come up with a 5th palette myself.

Okay so a preview of the palettes so far is here. And the submission BMP will follow that.
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Post by: Kourama on April 27, 2008, 12:55:40 PM
Nice work Cheetah! The Red Mage looks great.
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Post by: Sen on April 28, 2008, 01:58:43 AM
You put other palletes also for other factions using RedMage
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Post by: Cheetah on April 28, 2008, 02:16:54 AM
Yep, I'm just looking for help on what the different palettes should look like.
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Post by: Cheetah on May 02, 2008, 12:30:28 AM
Well it looks like no one had any suggestions on the final palette so I came up with it. With this an some final adjustments my Red Mage is finally complete. All the glitches should be solved and I even added some swishing to the feather so the hat doesn't look so static. Tell me what you think and please report any issues.

I only ask that you give credit where it is due if you include this sprite in any public release.
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Post by: Austin on May 02, 2008, 01:23:29 AM
Very nice! It really shows how much work you put into this, can't wait to see what the blue mage ends up looking like. :P
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Post by: Sen on May 02, 2008, 04:25:54 AM
umm...

can RedMages wear blue clothes?
I suggest to make it maroon
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Post by: Vanya on May 02, 2008, 04:39:52 AM
I was thinking that earlier. I'd probably stick to warm colors like yellow and orange, or maybe brown.
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Post by: Cheetah on May 02, 2008, 04:28:36 PM
I might continue to experiment with different palette options. I just really like that color of blue/purple on him though, plus I already have an alternative shade of red as one of the other palettes. I'm always open to suggestions though.
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Post by: Asmo X on May 02, 2008, 05:17:40 PM
How about purple, orange and yeah I think a brown would be good with the right shade. Something nice and dark.

The blue still looks awesome though, even if it's not very red-magey.