Final Fantasy Hacktics

Projects => Completed Patches => FFT Arena => Topic started by: PX_Timefordeath on August 04, 2010, 10:49:51 PM

Title: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 04, 2010, 10:49:51 PM
This topic is for those who want to challenge each other to battles using the Arena Patch.

If you want to submit a team, post it in the Team submission thread. This thread is now for videos and discussion only! If you wish to propose a balance change, please post in the right thread.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 05, 2010, 03:12:56 AM
so i come up with a team then come up with a team that i want to face?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: AeroGP on August 05, 2010, 03:50:16 AM
No, you're just pitted randomly with whomever else wants to participate.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 05, 2010, 04:13:48 AM
Sweet. *prepares joke team*

I'm guessing we just post our team out in the open instead of PMs like last time, right?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 05, 2010, 04:16:12 AM
Yeah, that way anyone can host a battle.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 05, 2010, 05:08:59 AM
EDIT:  This is the old team, please do not use

The Team

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 05, 2010, 05:11:32 AM
I'll be willing to host some of these battles for anyone that wants. Is there an updated .ppf file around so I will be able to?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 05, 2010, 05:26:23 AM
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5625 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5625)

CLF can be grabbed here
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2651 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2651)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on August 05, 2010, 05:32:14 AM
I'll just throw this out there. It's not as good as I thought it was.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 05, 2010, 07:38:56 AM
Zoddamn computer problems....

Team "Yes, She's Dead Again"

Also, while going through this, I realized something that I'll bring up in the ability thread.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 05, 2010, 11:34:05 AM
Here is test with Fire/Ice/Bolt 4 users. vs CT5Holy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4yVUfMCkyg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4yVUfMCkyg)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 05, 2010, 06:06:41 PM
wait so you delete my topic without pming me then remake the exact same topic 2 days later? *smirk*
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 05, 2010, 06:09:58 PM
To be fair, your topic was 'deleted' due to the time warp.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 05, 2010, 06:19:49 PM
aha! so arch is to blame :P
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 05, 2010, 07:44:50 PM
Melancthon vs CT5Holy: 2 battles

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 05, 2010, 08:28:47 PM
I'll record The Damned vs next team posted
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 05, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
my team here
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 05, 2010, 10:27:50 PM
Return of the S3 Testing Dancers from Hell!
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 06, 2010, 12:10:07 AM

I'll probably have to redo the 2 last units into oracles/geomancers for more mp, or something. But please test it.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 06, 2010, 12:44:21 AM
biffed that stats a little bit in fftastic, but hey, its exhibition right?

Melancthon vs The Damned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd6vsfrv ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd6vsfrvQ8A&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 06, 2010, 01:14:26 AM
Wait, Silence Song is still causing Don't Act instead of Silence? Uh....

Also, what are you guys are using to record this?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 06, 2010, 01:29:40 AM
I thought that was weird too - used the newest patch too.

I use camtasia studio 6 to record
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 06, 2010, 01:31:56 AM
Probably my fault in editting status.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 06, 2010, 03:44:48 AM

lol Distribute
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 06, 2010, 05:57:12 AM
Anyone want a specific battle done?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITGgzP0bKxc
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: AeroGP on August 06, 2010, 06:31:23 AM
I'm in.

[spoiler="Blood Knights":3sieb3bg]Cerise
female
libra
55
70
priest
yin-yang magic
faith up
magic defense up
move mp-up
healing staff

golden hairpin
chameleon robe
red shoes
cure2, raise2, esuna, blind rage

Rose
female
libra
55
70
priest
yin-yang magic
faith up
magic defense up
move mp-up
healing rod

golden hairpin
chameleon robe
red shoes
cure2, raise2, esuna, blind rage

Chestnut
male
aries
70
55
knight
time magic
counter
defense up
ignore height
blood sword
aegis shield
grand helm
light robe
n-kai armlet
slow2

Maroon
male
aries
70
55
knight
time magic
counter
defense up
ignore height
blood sword
aegis shield
grand helm
light robe
n-kai armlet
haste 2[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 06, 2010, 07:23:39 AM
lancers didn't even jump... I'm sure the AI does jump, or is it random? But I admit your team concept is strong, since there is no practical way to regain stats, and knights with blood swords are almost always good finishers
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 06, 2010, 07:30:59 AM
Yes, Lancers do Jump. The AI just didn't decide to for some reason. Maybe they didn't find any suitable targets?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 06, 2010, 08:59:27 AM
They do jump, but the CT was never lined up, so they would have just landed on empty space. AI never lands on empty space with jump. Unless a sleeping target got woken up before the jump landed and moved out of the way.

And round 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6AOXcMjdDA
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 06, 2010, 01:25:06 PM
What is the preferred way to go about making changes to my team?  Should I just state the changes I want made, re-post the changed character, or re-post the entire team?

Because I definitely need to make some changes.  Though watching my Geomancer get Meatboned was pretty funny.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 06, 2010, 01:37:42 PM
is my team going to be up anytime soon or do i have to fix a few errors?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 06, 2010, 06:22:50 PM
thanks for recording these, px. It was very informative.

Also, is there any reason someone would not use genji shield? I think it's a bit op right now compared to other shields. Giving +1 PA, good melee evasion AND protection from death seems a little overkill. I just had mine at the wrong units, and px's concept kills my one straightforward with PA ruining
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 06, 2010, 06:32:46 PM
I figure you might as well repost it and say that it's an upgraded version of your team rather than a completely different team.

I have to fix my team anyway with the new changes. Well, that and as much as this is a joke team, I would rather like to actually see Last Song used so we can see if it's potentially problematic or not. Stupid Worthingtons....

(That and Cover Fire.)

Team "Yes, She's Dead Again" v2:


I'll gladly fight Barren, PX, especially since our teams were posted around the same time. Though if you want to use someone else's team before mine, I'll understand.

Knightly EDIT: Wait, I'm an idiot. Knight is Paladin now. I'm changing Summers' Secondary to Ninja then.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 06, 2010, 07:25:42 PM
The Team (new)

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 06, 2010, 10:41:08 PM
Ok, I'm setting up Melancthon vs The Damned
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 06, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
Time to get my ass kicked quickly by Melancthon again (at least if it's a small map like last time).

Barren: I see what's wrong with your team now. You didn't count your JP. Also, due to the most recent changes, you might need to change things since Defense UP's JP cost increased and Ninja's skillset is now completely different.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 06, 2010, 11:13:16 PM
here is my new test team, made primarially to test crossbow damage archers against longbow status archers

[spoiler="Hunting Party":30v7sje5]"Hunting Party"

Gastrifitus A
Male
Sagitarius
70
55
Archer
Cover Fire
Squire
Accumulate, Dash
Counter Tackle
Attack Up
Jump +2

Gastrifitus

Twist Headband
Earth Clothes
Bracer
Total JP List: 750 for jobs (Archer, squire, Geomancer), 450 for abilties,
50 for counter tackle, 400 for Attack UP, 100 for Jump +2
Sum Cost: 1750jp spent

Gastrifitus B
Male
Sagitarius
70
55
Archer
Cover Fire
Squire
Accumulate, Dash
Counter Tackle
Attack Up
Jump +2

Gastrifitus

Twist Headband
Earth Clothes
Bracer
Total JP List: 750 for jobs (Archer, squire, Geomancer), 450 for abilties,
50 for counter tackle, 400 for Attack UP, 100 for Jump +2
Sum Cost: 1750jp spent
...............
Longbow A
Male
Sagitarius
70
55
Archer
Arm Aim, Leg Aim
Monk
Stigma Magic, Chakra, Revive
HP Restore
Concentrate
Jump +2

Longbow

Thief Hat
Secret Clothes
Sprint Shoes
Total JP List: 500 for jobs (Archer, Monk), 1320 for abilities, 400 for HP Restore, 350 for Concentrate, 100 for Jump +2
Sum Cost: 2670jp spent
...............

Longbow B
Male
Sagitarius
70
55
Archer
Arm Aim, Leg Aim
Monk
Stigma Magic, Chakra, Revive
HP Restore
Concentrate
Jump +2

Longbow

Thief Hat
Secret Clothes
Sprint Shoes
Total JP List: 500 for jobs (Archer, Monk), 1320 for abilities, 400 for HP Restore, 350 for Concentrate, 100 for Jump +2
Sum Cost: 2670jp spent
...............[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on August 06, 2010, 11:23:36 PM
Team updated.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 07, 2010, 12:01:36 AM
team updated as well. I guess now we might see some jumps =p


edit: made some small adjustments since I wasn't aware reraise didn't work with undead. Also, spreadsheets were not teaching jump correctly, says ffm. Let's see how it goes now...
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 07, 2010, 01:03:32 AM
The Damned vs. Melancthon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxwcO4rqmyA
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 07, 2010, 01:24:47 AM
Wow, that arguably went worse than the other match. I just remembered shouldn't have picked Nameless Song if I wanted to test Last Song since without Random, the computer thinks it has a chance to Haste everyone. Damn AI.

(Please get rid of Nameless Song on Angel next time my team gets its ass beaten.)

Still no Cover Fire even when people are right next to each other. Why the hell?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 07, 2010, 01:28:00 AM
I don't really get why they don't use Cover Fire either. All the AI Flags are fine.

Setting up CT5Holy vs. logus now.

EDIT: You can request battles against certain people if you wish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwin6LdRGtM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 07, 2010, 05:30:40 AM
logus vs Skip Sandwich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzN7TCF1BF0
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 07, 2010, 05:44:17 AM
Okay, I will state the obvious. Gastrafitis needs to be nerfed. That was just sick.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 07, 2010, 06:50:34 AM
FFMaster vs. Melancthon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjV6Te3vAzI
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 07, 2010, 07:23:42 AM
@Pride
Ah, the midcharge Best Compat Element-Boosted Attack UP hit for over 600, yeah, that did a crap ton of damage, but then, with all those modifiers behind it, it should. Gastrifitus is still an earth element weapon, so float, feather boots, earth clothes, and the gold shield can all stop it easily. keep in mind too that I had good to best compat with logus's ENTIRE team.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 07, 2010, 07:29:11 AM
And what about the crazy amount of healing on your side of the team? 300+ healing at neutral compat instantly is a bit much... I think it deserves a bit of a nerf.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 07, 2010, 07:40:32 AM
My Gastrifitus archers also had max PA gear, this coupled with element boosting and Attack UP gave them a base PA of 26 before compat was factored in, taking out the elemental aspect of Gastrifitus would both remove elemental healing from it, and drop the max effective base PA down to 21
:EDIT: and if that's not quite enough of a nerf, then dropping the WP down from 14 to 12 should suffice
:EDIT2: realized my math was off, with Twist Headband, Earth Clothes and Bracer, my archers had 14 base PA, which was element boosted to 17 before being Attack UP'ed to 22
Dropping element boosting would reduce the max base power of G to 18 *14 or 252 damage, further reducing WP to 12 would result in max base power of 18 * 12 or 216 damage
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 07, 2010, 08:12:38 AM
Longbows are still looking rather pathetic, really.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
@Pride
Ah, the midcharge Best Compat Element-Boosted Attack UP hit for over 600, yeah, that did a crap ton of damage, but then, with all those modifiers behind it, it should. Gastrifitus is still an earth element weapon, so float, feather boots, earth clothes, and the gold shield can all stop it easily. keep in mind too that I had good to best compat with your ENTIRE team.

Um, it's been three months since I've even touched FFT, much less tested anything, but I'm pretty sure that Earth-element weapons don't ignore Float, so Float status won't do anything.

Also, I'm guessing you mean Mythril Shield since Gold Shield makes you weak to Earth.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 07, 2010, 08:18:50 AM
Float stops earth element, it doesn't matter what the source of that earth element is, if you're floating, you avoid it (I don't know if any non-damaging formulas accept elemental flags, but if any do, then float SHOULD block those as well if they were flagged as earth element). And yes, I meant Mythril Shield
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 07, 2010, 08:22:11 AM
I'm pretty sure that Earth-elemental weapons hit my people when I was testing because I remember that being surprising (which is why I [think I] remember it now). I'm almost certain that my Octagon Rod (which uses all elements) hit someone who was Floating for normal damage.

Of course, we can test this by having my team fight your team and just hope that one of your Crossbow archers murders Warren's worthless ass, especially since he likes to charge forward while Performing.

(But seriously get rid of Nameless Song on Warren if you have us fight, FFMaster. Kthx.)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 07, 2010, 09:47:09 AM
After saying it should be nerfed in irc, I pondered a bit, and found no real argument to support nerfing gastrafitis. When compared to Kain, the neutral lancer, the archers were dealing similar damage to the lancer Kain(sagittarius as well) as he was dealing damage to them (archers hit him for 241-271 iirc, while he jumped for 261). It seemed fair, given that they had Atk UP, Kain had Def UP and they didn't hit him always, while jump always hit, but had a charge time, thus kain was not always able to use it. As I'm a lover of offensive setups, I kinda enjoyed this "fairness".

Then I thought of casters. And how every single unit needs Def UP and at least 280~ish hp to avoid being 1-shotted in a regular situation.  You say it can be "easily" countered, but if you look close enough, the methods you provided are very specific to countering only the earth element.

In gastrafitis case, you are pretty much forced to counter earth/arrow guard (and have a bit of luck) , or lose. And if every team needs to counter a specific element/unit/combo, then such thing is certainly not balanced with the rest of the game.

With gastrafitis around like this, there is no point in trying to make any caster whatsoever without a counter to earth/arrow guard, and that is a bit too restrictive when brewing teams, imo.

edit: forgot to mention that 12 WP seems more reasonable. Let's try that.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 07, 2010, 08:05:08 PM
If you're still taking requests, I'll take on Skip Sandwich.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 07, 2010, 09:35:08 PM
edited my earlier post due to bad math on my part, I now recomend both dropping the earth element and reducing Gastrifituss WP down to 12.
:EDIT: just realized that dropping the WP of gastrifitus down to 12 would reduce the gap in power between it and the crossbow to 16 points of damage (assuming max PA set up), so just drop the earth element from Gastrifitus for now.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 07, 2010, 09:38:24 PM
The Damned vs FFMaster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWwYAvMohDE


EDIT
Melancthon vs Skip Sandwich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufl8V2DCv3g
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: ffta707 on August 07, 2010, 11:51:25 PM
Awesome^^.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 08, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
Thanks for doing these, FFMaster.

I just realized that asking to fight Skip Sandwich to show that Gastrifitis can hit people with Float is slightly pointless since Warren has Arrow Guard. Maybe you should switch out Arrow Guard for PA Save if you have me fight him (just for that match though, since I don't think anyone else has Float).

Oh. Also, do you might posting what the AI Flags for Cover Fire are? I'm curious now that it's actually gone off (assuming you didn't change anything).
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 08, 2010, 12:27:44 AM
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/CoverFireAI.png)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 08, 2010, 01:21:44 AM
@The Damned
well, if float blocks earth weapons, the chance to hit should be 0% if its anything other then that, then float has no effect on earth element weapons
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 08, 2010, 10:00:14 AM
Float doesn't stop earth element weapons. Just checked.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 08, 2010, 04:53:47 PM
Thank you for double checking, FFMaster. I'm such a lazy bastard, really.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 09, 2010, 12:35:25 AM
Me VS logus?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 09, 2010, 08:31:51 PM
Meh, not sure what to do.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 09, 2010, 10:44:35 PM
it's really weird that float doesn't affect earth element weapons, since negating earth element is pretty much the entire point of it's existance...come to think of it, were there ANY earth elemental weapons in vanilla FFT? I don't think so, so this may be just a case of lazy programing.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 10, 2010, 04:31:00 AM
Ah, thanks for adding the Zodiac chart. It's such a pain in the ass to try to remember those things off top of one's head and having to repeatedly open a document in Notepad to check isn't much better.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
it's really weird that float doesn't affect earth element weapons, since negating earth element is pretty much the entire point of it's existance...come to think of it, were there ANY earth elemental weapons in vanilla FFT? I don't think so, so this may be just a case of lazy programing.

Heh, yeah.

I'm pretty sure there aren't, especially since I went out of my way to add some, hence my (vaguely remembered) surprise at Octagon Rod smacking people. There wasn't really much elemental stuff in general in vanilla, especially since you can still see this in the 1.3 build where there only three or four things that got changed elementally (most notably Black Costume).

Off the top of my head, there were a few elemental weapons, but most late-game stuff:


I think Excalibur wasn't Holy and while I may be forgetting a few weapons, that was about the gist of it since all the other categories were kind of "bone-dry" in that regard. Definitely no Earth-weapons though, especially since I always remember finding it funny that the only way to constantly use Wind in the game was to use either Air Knife or Windslash Bow, which were both sub-par compared to the other broken-ness.

But enough about that. I'll make a different team some time tomorrow to "celebrate" this since now we know that Cover Fire works and Last Song doesn't seem broken or even OP (at the moment).
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 10, 2010, 04:35:10 AM
Don't bother making a team just yet. Wait until the next patch.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 10, 2010, 04:35:51 AM
What shall the next patch contain, oh he with flowing hair?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 10, 2010, 04:56:54 AM
Gah, if I knew that, I wouldn't have just recorded me vs. logus -_-'

Either way, I'll update this post when I have them uploaded.

Edit 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p41F_j7ujI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seqJ3cFQYDg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJKAUVsWhFc
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 10, 2010, 04:57:12 AM
Current Changelog
-Ignore Height at 300 JP
-Gastrafitis now at 12 WP and loses Earth Element
-Shuriken, Katon, Raiton and Suiton are now SP*PA damage, are evadable, and elements properly working
-Throw renamed to Ninjitsu, Battle Skill renamed to Chivalry
-All Ruins moved to Thief
-Thief gains 1 speed (10 speed, highest in the game)
-Fire/Ice/Bolt 4 changes (undetermined)
-Mediator stat buffs (undetermined)
-P Bag nerf (undetermined)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 11, 2010, 12:19:40 AM
You should start building teams to abuse the hell out of everything you can now.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 11, 2010, 01:49:29 AM
Same team as before but reposting cause I want to see it get some more action.


I'll also host matches for people that want to see their team play.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 11, 2010, 03:05:25 AM
Quote from: "FFMaster"
Current Changelog
-Ignore Height at 300 JP
-Gastrafitis now at 12 WP and loses Earth Element
-Shuriken, Katon, Raiton and Suiton are now SP*PA damage, are evadable, and elements properly working
-Throw renamed to Ninjitsu, Battle Skill renamed to Chivalry
-All Ruins moved to Thief
-Thief gains 1 speed (10 speed, highest in the game)
-Fire/Ice/Bolt 4 changes (undetermined)
-Mediator stat buffs (undetermined)
-P Bag nerf (undetermined)

aw damn, when i got around to it i was gonna abuse the hell out of gastrafitis/earth slash/earth clothes. I guess skip sort of beat me to it.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 11, 2010, 04:14:24 AM
some very odd, interesting videos, pride.
1) no counter magic triggered at my samus (or is ultima not supposed to trigger them?). Perhaps you might have missed the change I made, unless I forgot to actually edit the post.
2) it seems lancers don't take into account "haste" status when jumping, thus resulting in misses (at video 2, he was not even dodging ultima, he was simply missing a jump)
3) the ai sure does know how to bait magic then jump lol. It is proven that the ai does not check for possible enemy actions, clearly.
4) speed save might have contributed to the above.
5)  ultima is quite strong, and I was unaware faith didn't affect it. I was also unaware we could already use serpentarius. I was about to test ultima in my Elemental team...
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 11, 2010, 04:21:11 AM
Ultima is unaffected by counter magic. I was wondering if you were just that unlucky but I checked the abilities thread and it says it doesn't trigger counter magic. Serpentarius was just unbanned so I thought i would take advantage of that and test it out. I thought aoe that is ignores faith and zodiac was too tempting to pass up. And lol yeah, Ultima was almost as advantageous as it was dangerous.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 11, 2010, 04:47:44 AM
the elemental team. Max elemental would be 168, I stuck at 160 for that extra 1 sp.


edit: some small corrections
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 11, 2010, 06:47:37 AM
Ah, Pride, I'd like to see my team get some action if you can.


Me vs Pride 1 & 2
BAASAAKAA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c60gVYz4J3U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7e1gOIUXd4
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 11, 2010, 09:53:40 AM
Heh, nice Berserker. And Ultima 2 self rape lol.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 11, 2010, 11:58:49 PM
New team:

The Jerks
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 12, 2010, 01:04:38 AM
Ultima being such a nuke doesn't sit quite right with me, but we're testing for a reason.

Also, Ninja and Mime still make me sad, but I'll address that in the ability thread.

Speaking of the ability thread, would it be too much to ask have the ability thread link to the item thread & this thread? Similarly, to have the item thread link to this thread? It would make making teams a lot easier IMO.

Finally, I've a new team here as well. This one is a bit more serious than last time, though it's still themed.

Team Millennial Fighting Royalty:

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on August 12, 2010, 02:40:36 AM
I'll toss in a new team as well.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 12, 2010, 06:30:32 AM
my new team the "Knights Errant"
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 12, 2010, 12:22:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJYsXp6EC8E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1EDjGfG5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkbWwcOyva8
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 12, 2010, 02:09:26 PM
Good fights!  Those Elementalists make me nervous, and PX's BAASAAKAA does some scary damage.  Time will tell if my team holds together, or if my lack of real damage-dealers is going to bite me in the ass.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on August 12, 2010, 06:59:36 PM
Warn was a mistake. If it could be removed? >_> Doesn't matter, really.
Also, why did my Bard move into the Ninja's range to get redirected by the Ultima? *sigh*
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 12, 2010, 07:42:39 PM
O man, starting so close really didn't favor me with both of my Ultima users falling within the first two turns but I am glad to see that I'm not the only person killing themself with Ultima : P
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 12, 2010, 10:20:43 PM
I'm pretty sure Ultima will continue to remain suicidally dangerous to any team that possesses it. Ultima 2 doubly so.

Speaking of abilities to change, Whip (despite being nigh useless like her KOF counterpart) showed me what I suspected about Shadowstrike: That the computer would use it over a 100% weapon even though they do the same damage and Shadowstrike can miss.

I'm going to change it to Shinobi's Seal in Team Millennial Fighting Royalty v1.1. That will be the only change at present, though.

EDIT from the Future: Actually, due to the most recent changes (and Ninja getting Two Swords Innate back), I'm going to change Whip a bit more. Team Millennial Fighting Royalty v1.2 go:

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 12, 2010, 11:03:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJvH6rtu55M
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 12, 2010, 11:11:32 PM
I lol'd.

Now Scholars will go back to not getting used. Hurray!

But, seriously, no one has used the primary skill of Scholar since Ultima got upgraded.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 12, 2010, 11:17:02 PM
Well, its because Scholar skillset is incomplete. I was thinking of putting Bio's on them, or line spells or something. I really have no ideas for it.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 12, 2010, 11:26:14 PM
Well, we could always make them into Blue Mage since we currently have no access to monster abilities. I'd rather Bio be given to Wizards if we're giving them to anyone at all, especially we still don't know what to do with Elemental 4 spells.

Besides, it's not like people weren't using Scholars before considering Speed Save. It's just that nuking everything with Faith-ignoring Ultima was the superior, surer tactic.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 12, 2010, 11:33:40 PM
-Fire/Ice/Bolt 4 are now 0 AoE, and deal F_(MA*40) damage

I thought this was fine.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 13, 2010, 02:22:52 AM
Oh.

Uh, yeah, that's fine.

(I would have replied sooner, but something I had to install ended up needing 3 hours. Ugh.)

Anyway, be sure to update the PPF thread yet again with the latest round of changes when you get the chance.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 13, 2010, 02:26:10 AM
I was expecting auto potion to use Hi-Potion since potion didn't appear on the item list, so I was expecting a lot more then 50 hp healed per shot. also, Ultima currently does more damage then Flare, with AoE, for 1/4th the mp cost and a faster CT, this needs to change.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 13, 2010, 02:29:07 AM
You realize he nerfed Ultima already, right? Or are you counting the change to MA*9?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 13, 2010, 04:35:48 AM
no, I was not aware of that change at the time I posted, it's good that it's being nerfed though.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 13, 2010, 01:16:45 PM
Say hello to my little friends.
DOOOOOM!!!!! TEAAAAMM!!!!

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 13, 2010, 03:25:25 PM
I want in! here's my team

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 13, 2010, 09:16:04 PM
All you units seem to be way over the limit Barren. Please recheck them.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 13, 2010, 09:31:33 PM
My Archers OF DOOM seem to be right huh?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 13, 2010, 09:38:57 PM
Yeah, yours is fine.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 13, 2010, 09:43:54 PM
Would there be any possibility of figthing againts that PX sent first(with 2 dancers, 2 knights), if not that then do current one, just bacause I want kick he's ass for the hell of it.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 13, 2010, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: "FFMaster"
All you units seem to be way over the limit Barren. Please recheck them.

Yeah, Barren, yours are all over 3000 by at least 600 JP. I think a primary part of your problem is that you're by the old mentality of job classes being connected and thus discounting the extra 250 JP you have to pay to open a class even if you just want an RSM.

This is your current JP count:


As you can clearly see, you're last man is near 4000 and would be (well over) anyway.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 13, 2010, 10:42:46 PM

New team with the ultima debuff.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 13, 2010, 10:50:41 PM
Shade vs. PX_Timefordeath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHvNnQ0hUy8
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on August 14, 2010, 12:02:37 AM
New team.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 14, 2010, 01:39:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSQBMy--j7A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m9rVRR-viY
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 14, 2010, 02:20:47 AM
The Venomous Wall

(or at least, a poor attempt before I screw it any further)

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 14, 2010, 03:43:54 AM
As I said in the CT5Holy vs. Shade video, why are three of CT5Holy's units Always: Undead if he only has two Cursed Rings?

Regardless, I will fight anyone with an up-to-date team. I'll take on logus first, I guess.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 14, 2010, 03:54:24 AM
Yeah, my bad. one of the Scholars is meant to have 108 Gems. Its been fixed now, but it doesn't affect much really.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 14, 2010, 04:00:39 AM
Oh, I wasn't crying foul play or anything.

It just perplexed me since the limit of two items per team is still in place (and should remain in place).
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Zaen on August 14, 2010, 05:28:44 AM
I wish I had the dedication to make a team for a battle or two... I'm getting too lazy.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 14, 2010, 07:57:06 AM
Wow my team does thing difrent tthen what I waited for. Like the spamming arm aim or my archers not getting hit at all to trigger speed save.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 14, 2010, 08:03:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV-dvCtNGqs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q45TAEfP94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3yNaDJkNBU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRqtEQgn3pE
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 14, 2010, 05:24:35 PM
Thanks for the videos. As I said before, you have quite good taste in music.

For my video, though, you didn't use the most recent version of my team or say anything about Nurse, though I understand and I'm unsure if it would have made a difference. (Though at least the Archer wouldn't have been double-turning people.)

Any clue why Nurse would crash the game at present?

Regardless, here's Team Millennial Fighting Royalty v2.0 then:


I've been meaning to test out Wizard's Poison anyway.

Again, I'm fine with fighting anyone with an up-to-date team, though I wouldn't mind fighting logus again either....
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 14, 2010, 06:23:10 PM
Finally got off my fat ass to make a team

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on August 14, 2010, 06:39:17 PM
I'm surprised my Scholar in critical didn't Murasame herself back to health. Healing is normally the first thing they do...
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 14, 2010, 07:34:28 PM
Ok, team rechecked and fixed, at least i hope
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 14, 2010, 08:23:35 PM
Sweet, more teams!  I wouldn't mind going up against Kaz or Shade.

EDIT:  The PX V Pride fight was awesome.  Trading Flares FTW.

Also, does my fight against CT5 count as a win or a draw?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 14, 2010, 09:33:05 PM
I'd say that's a win for you, Melancthon.

Even if the Time Mage wasn't confused, she wouldn't been able to do anything against two healthy units. It's not like she had Meteor or anything.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 14, 2010, 09:44:26 PM
I *think* the Defend hack doesn't mix well with the Fury hack.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 14, 2010, 10:43:44 PM
How did you "think" that?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 14, 2010, 10:55:01 PM
1) It only crashes on physical damage
2) Defend isn't actually reducing damage when I was testing

Which means that both hacks must be messing each other up somehow.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 14, 2010, 11:09:30 PM
I vote for defende getting out instead of fury.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 14, 2010, 11:33:18 PM
i know that the team i submitted before i messed up on the JP points, hopefully this time i got it right
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 14, 2010, 11:44:14 PM
Do you know how much easier having jp costs so nobody else has to go check from other topics.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 14, 2010, 11:50:47 PM
i checked the abilities list and it does day 250 JP to unlock a job but it doesn't necessarily say how much it costs to unlock for instance geomancer or ninja unless im blind and there's something that im not seeing correctly and sometimes i get messed up on how much JP it takes to unlock a job and learning one of their abilities without going over 3000. im guessing its hard to come up with complex setups that works. so im sticking with what i do know and hopefully i don't need more than 1 job to unlock 1 class.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 14, 2010, 11:57:19 PM
250jp FOR ANY JOB. Meaning if you want from ninja two swords you will pay for it 250 jp then buy the ability, same when use your secondary, and i think also for the job that you are using goes 250jp not sure can't remember.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 15, 2010, 12:03:17 AM
ahhh i get it. so its not like one job unlocks another. its 250 for any job. no matter what. i think i understand it better, thanks Shade
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 15, 2010, 09:02:05 AM
Yeah, you need to pay 250JP for the base job as well.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 15, 2010, 10:45:59 AM
i get it now. i kept thinking that its one job that unlocks another but its 250 for any job. thanks guys for correcting me
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 15, 2010, 11:04:20 AM
good that you understood

I would like figthing lot of Guys FFmaster. Everyone possible mostly(MAUAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA  :D  ).
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 15, 2010, 03:26:36 PM
Revised my Knights Errant team, and requesting a match against Pride to see if the new improved Ultima will destroy me just as it did before
[spoiler="Knights Errant v2":1pbu2bxf]Gunso
Male
Libra
70
40
Paladin
Transfusion, Iron Will, Magicward
Chemist
Hi-Potion, Ether, Phoenix Down
Counter Flood
Throw Item
Move-HP UP

Platinum Sword
Genji Shield
Crystal Helmet
Genji Armor
108 Gems

Jp List: 750 for jobs (Paladin, Chemist, Geomancer), 1000 for abilities, 250 for Counter Flood, 250 for Throw Item, 500 for Move-HP UP
Jp Total: 2950jp
~~~~~~~~~~
Cross
Male
Aries
70
40
Paladin
Transfusion, Iron Will
Ninja
Nightslayer, Suiton
Arrow Guard
Two Swords
Jump +2

Coral Sword
Coral Sword
Crystal Helmet
Genji Armor
108 Gems

Jp List: 750 for jobs (Paladin, Ninja, Archer), 800 on Abilities, 400 for Arrow Guard, 700 on Two Swords, 100 on Jump +2
Jp Total: 2750jp
~~~~~~~~~~
Pearl
Female
Cancer
40
70
Paladin
Nurse
Priest
Reraise, Esuna, Raise 2
Regenerator
Magic Defend UP
Move MP UP

Blood Sword
Genji Shield
Cross Helmet
Crystal Armor
Defense Armlet

Jp List: 750 for jobs (Paladin, Oracle, Priest),  1080 for abilities, 350 for Absorb Used MP, 400 for Magic Defend UP , 270 for Move MP Up
Total: 2850jp
~~~~~~~~~~
Matelite
Male
Virgo
70
70
Paladin
Grand Cross, Nurse
Mediator
Mimic Daravon
PA Save
Equip Gun
Fly

Blast Gun
Kaiser Plate
Gold Helm
Crystal Armor
Rubber Shoes

Jp List: 750 for jobs (Paladin, Mediator, Bard), 1000 for abilities, 550 for PA Save, 500 for Equip Gun, 300 for Fly
Total: 3000jp[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 15, 2010, 07:10:01 PM
Final Fantasy Team(pretty poor name but meh)


Btw I would like own teams fight each other for testing purpose.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 15, 2010, 08:07:01 PM
okay, heres my team, this time i know i got it right ^_^ thanks again Shade and FFMaster

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 15, 2010, 08:29:16 PM
Barren: I added up 3,170 JP when I checked your first unit.  Looks like you might have forgotten the 250 oracle fee for Move MP-UP
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 15, 2010, 08:34:16 PM
No its fine, Defense Up is from the oracle and he already paid the fee for it. So it looks like his units are all good.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 15, 2010, 08:41:55 PM
i knew that defense up and move mp up were from the oracle class. good thing i double checked this time and not mess again up like a idiot....lol well im glad i did it right this time. cant wait to see how effective my set up is or is not. and i just changed my ninja's zodiac from leo to aries. just so i made a last second correction
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 15, 2010, 09:50:34 PM
ah thanks for catching that pride, I always forget stinkin' defense up is in the oracle skillset.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 15, 2010, 10:02:51 PM
hey don't worry about, mistakes happen. all is good
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 18, 2010, 10:31:34 PM
Drastically re-worked the team.  A little bit of the old with a bit of the new.  Should be more cohesive now.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 19, 2010, 06:46:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScKBIoRH8PA


The nerfed ultima destroyed me even faster then the previous one  :shock: back to the drawing board I guess
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 19, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
wow that match was quick and brutal
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 19, 2010, 05:35:45 PM
yeah, ultima is currently the equivalent of a 70 faith caster using Bahamut on a 55 faith target, Ultima 2 is a little cheaper then bahamut, but bahamut has a slightly faster CT. If it were up to me, I would balance non-faith spells around the output of a 55 faith caster against a 55 faith target, since you are trading the ability for people to defend with low faith for the ability to deal extra damage with high faith (for point of reference, a 25 MA caster, like the ones on pride's team above, would deal 181 damage with bahamut at 55 to 55 faith). The way ultima is currently set up, there is no downside to choosing it over bahamut other then a lack of other useful mage skills in the squire skillset.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 20, 2010, 12:09:55 AM
So Ultima's damage would be the equivalent of a bahamut pending on faith and compatibility. Very interesting Skip, I can see now why Ultima is far more effective on a caster. its pretty much like a anti-tank strategy especially if you got two casters casting the same spell at the correct time. Overall i think that really looks like it could wreck almost any team; provided that the CT is lined up to the team's advantage
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 20, 2010, 12:54:37 AM
I'm still astounded how strong Ultima is, even after the nerfs. The units are soft but... That doesn't matter two much when they, together, can still 2hko nearly any unit. Perhaps... Even more of a nerf is necessary :|
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 20, 2010, 01:43:47 PM
any team with haste >= ultima teams
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Archael on August 20, 2010, 05:58:50 PM
holy balance balls

what's the full stats on ultima 2?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Dome on August 20, 2010, 06:04:12 PM
WOAH
Brutal
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 20, 2010, 07:46:18 PM
Quote from: "Voldemort"
holy balance balls

what's the full stats on ultima 2?

(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/Pride_Nick/Ultimastats.png)

Was originally MA*12 with a bit faster CT and less MP but was nerfed down. Probably could use a bit more of a nerf....
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Archael on August 20, 2010, 08:22:39 PM
the problem isn't the CT or MP cost or even the radius

it's the formula

why isn't it using faith?

why isn't it evade-able?

straight 100% MA*Y is very strong, most of the things that have that in 1.3 and vanilla are all boss / monster spells
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 20, 2010, 09:45:30 PM
faith is a much better way to balance than just nerfing Y. ffm had already given such sugestion for DO, but he instead chose to nerf down Y (which made some DO unusable, imo).

Also, this discussion about ultima should be in stats/ability thread, I guess.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 21, 2010, 05:36:37 AM
I kind of like the way ultima is set up, its unique in that it ignore faith.  Plus it's ignorance to faith makes it dangerous to pretty much everyone (including teammates)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 21, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
it's ignorance to faith makes it overpowered, since it makes all other damage spells completely useless by comparison. To be balanced, MA * 9 non-faith would have to be competing with MA * 36 faith with the same AoE and similar CT/MP costs. Of course, BOTH of those options are too powerful for the power bracket that Arena is set in, at least on anything more then a single-target attack.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 22, 2010, 04:17:41 AM
Yeah, the Ultima discussion should really be in the ability thread.

As such, I will make this post about something else equally deserving of inquiry: What the hell did you change your avatar to now, Skip Sandwich? Is Kefka making out with himself or Terra (or Celes) painted up as himself?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 22, 2010, 05:47:09 AM
he's making out with peidmon, a clown-themed digimon. I found the pic on a random search of DeviantArt for Kefka fanart, then I scaled it down to avatar size in Paint because it amused me to do so.
:EDIT: a link to the full-size original  http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=send%20 ... 24#/d1o9fb (http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=send%20in%20the%20clowns&order=9&offset=24#/d1o9fb)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 22, 2010, 11:04:22 PM
I've been meaning to make a team with thieves for a while, but didn't find the time. Then, when looking at my poison's teams flaws (the archer is/was a weak link), I decided to try it with a thief instead, and made some changes fixing other weaknesses I detected. Here is the updated team, Poisonous Wall... With Spikes:


ps: I expect to see sasuke knife nerfed to 11-12 WP after you guys make a couple of fights with this =p

edit: editted slightly, there was a mistake. Also, I wonder if I should run power ruin+steal weapon or go for move hp-up with the thief... seems like he is not using the former too much...
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 24, 2010, 04:30:36 AM
I've been lazy. I plan on doing several of battles tomorrow. If you have any request on who you'd like to see your team against specifically, post here so I know.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 24, 2010, 04:52:39 AM
Awesome!  I wouldn't mind going up against one of the new teams, like Kaz or Barren.  Anyone really, this is good stuff.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 24, 2010, 12:11:49 PM
im ready to take on anyone myself
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on August 24, 2010, 05:48:39 PM
I posted a test team that I wanted to fight my own old team.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 24, 2010, 10:37:19 PM
do your "own team vs own team" fight yourself if you want to see it. I'm much more interested in seeing the cross of teams ideas/concepts from different people in this thread, and I'm inclined to think I'm not the only one.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on August 25, 2010, 12:59:16 AM
I too shall try to get off my ass (though I've said that constantly for the past month) and help with videos of this.

I'm still curious of something to anyway....

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
he's making out with peidmon, a clown-themed digimon. I found the pic on a random search of DeviantArt for Kefka fanart, then I scaled it down to avatar size in Paint because it amused me to do so.
:EDIT: a link to the full-size original  http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=send%20 ... 24#/d1o9fb (http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=send%20in%20the%20clowns&order=9&offset=24#/d1o9fb)

Awesome.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 25, 2010, 08:00:53 AM
here's my take on a stone gunners team

[spoiler="A Failure to Comunicate":25bqh5nk]Thompson
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Mediator



Speed Save
Attack UP
Move HP UP

Stone Gun

Green Beret
Brigadine
Salty Rage

Jp list: 750 for jobs (Mediator, Archer, Geomancer), 0 for abilities, 600 for Speed Save, 400 for Attack UP, 500 for Move HP UP
Total: 2250jp

Chopper
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Mediator



Speed Save
Attack UP
Move HP UP

Stone Gun

Green Beret
Brigadine
Salty Rage

Jp list: 750 for jobs (Mediator, Archer, Geomancer), 0 for abilities, 600 for Speed Save, 400 for Attack UP, 500 for Move HP UP
Total: 2250jp

Sniper
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Mime


Kettle
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Bard
Life Song, Last Song
Monk
Stigma Magic, Revive
HP Restore
Equip Armor
Fly

Fairy Harp

Grand Helmet
Reflect Mail
Angel Ring

Jp list: 750 for jobs (Bard, Monk, Paladin), 720 for abilities, 400 for HP Restore, 600 for Equip Armor, 300 for Fly
Total: 2770jp[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 25, 2010, 02:46:55 PM
have you tested that team, skip? I don't want to sound intrusive with your team concept, but I just NEED to express my opinion: last song would be awesome for that bard.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 25, 2010, 04:10:20 PM
actually, he should have last song, guess I forgot to recopy it after making that change, hold up a minute and i'll correct it.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 25, 2010, 08:23:58 PM
before you guys go on and do the battles, you might want to check out the status of every unit. The memory card in ffm's zip seems to contradict with his table in the stats thread. I dunno which one is supposed to be the correct one...

Also, make sure to double check the units. Even after setting 2 archer units to be male on sprite and unit, I still had one with female stats... and when trying to fix them in fftastic to make them according to the table, then loading on patch, the values would get ridiculously off (female samurai wearing no MA gear with 17 MA, for instance).
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 25, 2010, 08:37:02 PM
I'll have to double check that, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary when I did a match earlier.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 25, 2010, 09:02:06 PM
Quote from: "logus"
do your "own team vs own team" fight yourself if you want to see it. I'm much more interested in seeing the cross of teams ideas/concepts from different people in this thread, and I'm inclined to think I'm not the only one.

+1


Quote from: "logus"
before you guys go on and do the battles, you might want to check out the status of every unit. The memory card in ffm's zip seems to contradict with his table in the stats thread. I dunno which one is supposed to be the correct one...

Also, make sure to double check the units. Even after setting 2 archer units to be male on sprite and unit, I still had one with female stats... and when trying to fix them in fftastic to make them according to the table, then loading on patch, the values would get ridiculously off (female samurai wearing no MA gear with 17 MA, for instance).

I've always had stats biffed like that. once I think a bard had 23 pa with no gear.  If someone could help me figure it out I'd be happy to post some of these battles.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 26, 2010, 03:48:27 AM
I won't be able to do battles for a while. A load of work has cropped up and I haven't got the time to record/edit videos. Maybe in another 2 weeks...
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 26, 2010, 10:25:40 AM
hey don't worry about it FFM, you go do what you have to do. You did a great job hosting FFT arena and putting on exhibition battles as well. We hope to see you back again soon
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 27, 2010, 07:59:44 AM
Edit: wtf?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 27, 2010, 04:29:47 PM
wha? where is the end of the battle?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 27, 2010, 05:29:01 PM
I have no idea whats wrong but youtube is only taking the first 4:37 of the battle. I didn't notice it last night cause I was so tired and I just wanted to post the link but... I've tried uploading it twice now and that's all its taking.... wtf

Edit: I don't think I can fix it :-/ The raw video is not working either.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 28, 2010, 11:42:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOXmZdxoSwU
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: SilvasRuin on August 29, 2010, 01:50:03 AM
Notes to self:
Stone Guns suck.
Dancers are very, very stupid.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 29, 2010, 04:16:18 AM
not necessarily true. A large map could prove you wrong.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on August 29, 2010, 05:12:20 AM
logus kudos to you for that mediator. mimic daravon and kiyomouri are deadly together
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: SilvasRuin on August 29, 2010, 05:34:13 AM
When you can't choose what maps to fight in, or you are guaranteed a small map, a medium map, and a large map, or something of that nature, you'd basically be guaranteeing losses for yourself.  "It's only a problem when you aren't on a large map" isn't good enough, the team still has a severe weakness that isn't at all rare.

Basically, crippling yourself on small maps in order to attempt a particular strategy on large maps is NOT a good trade-off.  Guaranteed losses on small maps are not balanced out by POSSIBLE wins on large maps.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 29, 2010, 05:36:20 AM
good point. I didn't consider the original s3 map scheme, as we are mostly fooling around trying to find broken stuff...
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 29, 2010, 05:42:07 AM
Team Fate Part 2

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 29, 2010, 08:00:13 AM
reposting team since I fixed some things here and there:


edit: fixed to the new format, and some small edits.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 29, 2010, 11:08:00 AM
Skip, I suggest you have a way to remove Petrify other than Stigma Magic. I randomed 3 maps already, and in all 3, your Bard couldn't heal 1 or both of the Stone Gunners.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 29, 2010, 11:40:29 AM
Re-posting Team with some edits

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on August 29, 2010, 10:47:52 PM
Pride, do you remember who won the match that wouldn't load?  I love the IDEA of my team, but I still don't know if it actually, you know, works.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on August 29, 2010, 11:53:58 PM
Logus won with.... 3 of his members up iirc. It was a 20 minute battle >_>
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 30, 2010, 01:38:29 PM
Okay, re-posting team "A Failure to Communicate", my bard now has Soft and Phoenix Down instead of Stigma Magic and Revive (lost last song as well), as well as Auto-Potion subbed for HP Restore, this should resolve the vert tolerance issue that FFMaster was reporting.

[spoiler="A Failure to Communitcate":5ozdeox6]"A Failure to Comunicate"

Thompson
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Mediator



Speed Save
Attack UP
Move HP UP

Stone Gun

Green Beret
Brigadine
Salty Rage

Jp list: 750 for jobs (Mediator, Archer, Geomancer), 0 for abilities, 600 for Speed Save, 400 for Attack UP, 500 for Move HP UP
Total: 2250jp

Chopper
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Mediator



Speed Save
Attack UP
Move HP UP

Stone Gun

Green Beret
Brigadine
Salty Rage

Jp list: 750 for jobs (Mediator, Archer, Geomancer), 0 for abilities, 600 for Speed Save, 400 for Attack UP, 500 for Move HP UP
Total: 2250jp

Sniper
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Mime


Kettle
Male
70
40
Serpentarius
Bard
Life Song
Chemist
Soft, Phoenix Down
Auto Potion
Equip Armor
Fly

Fairy Harp

Grand Helmet
Reflect Mail
Angel Ring

Jp list: 750 for jobs (Bard, Chemist, Paladin), 920 for abilities, 400 for HP Restore, 600 for Equip Armor, 300 for Fly
Total: 2990jp[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 31, 2010, 12:31:20 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on August 31, 2010, 03:28:29 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on August 31, 2010, 07:09:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jadt8mF8-pQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v7-Dwn6eME



Also, I've updated the first post with the new format for units.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 31, 2010, 08:36:30 AM
eh, guess you missed my team update just a few posts above. I improved the samurai (turned it into an oracle, dropped abandon, etc), changed the order (avoiding thief rush in large maps) and fixed knight (def up 40 fa right gears).

Gotta say though, once the ninja crystallized, it was just a matter of time until procs turned to my favor. My team can't kill itself, and with ninja dead, knight stripped ( and power ruin'd once, I think), there was no way the team would die. But charm was incredibly effective at gaining time :P
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on August 31, 2010, 11:17:42 AM
yea i have to agree. but it was a good fight i did put up. even though it was 4 on 3 the whole time. my sandbag power wasn't able to overcome the odds. good job logus gg
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 31, 2010, 06:46:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yak4QL2u6cg

I like to think that this fight started out as a perfectly normal trade negotiation, then things started getting a little heated over tax rates on grain imports, and THEN zodiac's samurai grievously insulted Thomson and Chopper's mother
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on August 31, 2010, 10:42:30 PM
heh, but they aren't still exactly good with guns eh? berserk with ranged weapon does that to you...

I found it weird how the bard took so long to soft the second mediator... yes, the mime did need the support, but the second mediator would make such a large difference. It was a 3x4 most of the time, and yet skip's team was winning. In a small map. Seems like zodiac lacked decent disables or massive damage to gain an edge... using elemental is nice, but 25% wasn't anywhere near needed. And, to use kiyo, you need other disables, since it seems that without them AI will just keep doing kiyo as it's best disable, and kiyo alone does not work, as the opposing team is still free to pound you.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 01, 2010, 12:23:30 AM
@logus
it may have been 3x4 for most of the fight, but stacking Berserk and Attack UP with the right equipment set up is enough to simply overwhelm all but the most devoted defenses. To be fair though, the oddities of berserk AI means that you're going to get a lot wasted shots with ranged weapons, but those shots that hit, HURT. Also, I lol'd when my other mediator got shot in the back of the head with a critical for 348 damage
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on September 01, 2010, 01:55:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOUqSdFrKaE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpgWp_87Bqo


The 2nd fight was a great battle.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on September 01, 2010, 11:12:29 AM
WOW! those berserk units for freaking beasts!! berserk dual wield monk + berserk paladin for the win!! That was a slaughter house!
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on September 01, 2010, 06:30:29 PM
wasn't berserk supposed to also increase receiving damage by 50%? just tested against px's team, and it's not. thief was doing the same damage to lancer and monk.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on September 04, 2010, 09:59:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxhXUsPe-P0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o69Z0FHM-bU


requests?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 07, 2010, 12:48:13 AM
BEHOLD MA POWAS

PS: screw my last suckass team
PPS: Changed Vanish Mantle to Feather Mantle because the initial Innocent really kills me.
PPPS: And faith, and my archer's secondary
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 07, 2010, 03:37:11 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Eternal on September 07, 2010, 04:53:36 AM
Palettes: 2/3

----------------

Alexander
Male
Aries
60
40
Paladin
Item
Counter
Defense Up
Move-HP Up
Blood Sword
Venetian Shield
Crystal Helmet
Light Robe
Angel Ring

Chivalry: Nurse, Counter
Item: Potion, X-Potion, Phoenix Down

----------------

Terrato
Female
Aries
50
50
Geomancer
Item
Counter Flood
Attack UP
Float

Giant Axe

Twist Headband
Power Sleeve
Cherche

Geomancy: All
Item: Hi-Ether, Eye Drop, Echo Grass, Bandage, Phoenix Down
----------------

Diabolos
Female
Libra
40
70
Wizard
Time Magic
Absorb Used MP
Magic Attack UP
Move-MP UP

Wizard Rod

Golden Hairpin
Black Costume
Small Mantle

Black Magic: Fire, Fire4, Ice, Flare
Time Magic: Haste, Slow

----------------

Seraph
Female
Libra
40
70
Priest
Summon Magic

Half of MP

Healing Staff

Golden Hairpin
White Robe
Small Mantle

White Magic: Cure, Raise2, Holy
Summon Magic: Silf, Odin
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on September 07, 2010, 05:13:59 AM
Oh man, throw stone into Meatbone was freaking hilarious.

I want to fight Zodiac please.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 07, 2010, 05:22:50 AM
Zodiac's team is way over the limit btw.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on September 07, 2010, 05:56:56 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on September 07, 2010, 06:41:26 AM
and here we go again!
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 07, 2010, 07:06:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqhPNoX7qO8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqhPNoX7qO8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBQE-wIenVg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBQE-wIenVg)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: secondadvent on September 07, 2010, 07:17:47 AM
Super Craptastic team GO!


Can only imagine how hard this team will fail  :P.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on September 07, 2010, 12:50:27 PM
Quote from: "Melancthon"
Oh man, throw stone into Meatbone was freaking hilarious.

I want to fight Zodiac please.

Im interested in fighting zodiac myself. and yes my archer's meatbone slash even though didnt help me win, it was there to say "hey you know what?!?! if i'm going down, i'm taking you with me!!!!" hence the lolz
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 07, 2010, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: "FFMaster"
Zodiac's team is way over the limit btw.
It is not.
I took your spreadsheet, fixed the Total amount of JP, removed the extra 250 Squire JP bug (of course it will still add it if the job's skills/skillset are used)

That is unless the JP Cap is 3000, which 3/4 of the teams breaks with some units.
If the cap is 3000JP why the fuck didn't you change that in the memory card spreadsheet?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 07, 2010, 03:30:22 PM
Yup it is 3000 jp.

It's on first page of this topic.


Holy Team

Fixed to respect format.

Does Grand Cross work without sword?
Also why is so many of my guys ending with jp 70 or 20?(I have made so many teams now like 5)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on September 07, 2010, 05:02:14 PM
New Team here:

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 07, 2010, 08:53:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgtunOkUPDs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgtunOkUPDs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMt4b19EXtY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMt4b19EXtY)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 07, 2010, 08:57:25 PM
Overall I'd say my team should stay unaffected (based on my tests) except the Fly trade-off for Jump +2 on my archer. I can't really change anything else though...

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 07, 2010, 09:11:41 PM
@Barren, logus and Shade - please respect the new format. It will make things much easier for us when setting up battles.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on September 07, 2010, 10:21:11 PM
can someone post that spreadsheet doc?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on September 07, 2010, 10:38:39 PM
Quote from: "Kaz"
can someone post that spreadsheet doc?

yes please so none of us would make the same mistake if we did already
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 07, 2010, 11:07:02 PM
You should ask Zodiac for it. My one is messed up and takes effort to calculate JP. You don't really need it anyway. Just follow the instructions on the first post. A base unit example has been added. Or if you need more, Zodiac's team is a perfect example.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on September 07, 2010, 11:24:44 PM
new team with right format

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: secondadvent on September 08, 2010, 09:19:44 AM
Came up with a new team that will hopefully last a bit longer than my old joke team :P.

EDIT: Modified my Samurai/Summoner a bit, and rearranged order.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on September 08, 2010, 10:59:09 PM
Wewt golden sun team. Not really, I just stole their names.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on September 09, 2010, 11:07:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAzSdA_RkFI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8isK4os5-pU
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on September 09, 2010, 11:43:32 AM
okay....that was the quickest defeat i ever had....holy crap!!! GG SecondAdvent
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on September 09, 2010, 06:43:15 PM
Revised team in the new format.  Went with the glass-cannon Oracle over the tankier version I had before, let's see how that works.

Team Clusterfuck
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 09, 2010, 06:59:12 PM
Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"
EXTRA RULE
-Any Zodiac, including Serpentarius, is legal
Can you guarantee that? Because I herd of people being unable to set serpentarius back then.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 09, 2010, 07:01:46 PM
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT put a space between Abilities and Items. It's just a hassle to remove that manually.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on September 09, 2010, 09:00:47 PM
Am I properly formatted?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 09, 2010, 09:23:48 PM
Serpentarius is all fine. Your spreadsheet is all happy about it, and FFTastic can set Serpentarius. And yes, your team properly formatted Melancthon
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 09, 2010, 11:18:52 PM
Yeah, I was only talking about the ones before you; should've made that clear.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on September 10, 2010, 12:22:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8E7iUhf_Rw


Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on September 10, 2010, 11:50:10 AM
Thanks for the clarification gentlemen, and thanks for the fight Kaz!  If anyone is still taking requests, I'd like to fight any team that is up to date and has already won a match.  At the moment I think that's Pride and SecondAdvent.  Of course I'll fight anyone that wants to challenge me as well.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 10, 2010, 11:57:32 AM
My holy team againts yours!
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on September 10, 2010, 12:51:43 PM
In light of the Elemental Absorption topic I would most like to be put up against Pride's Fire team.  I'm not opposed to going up against Shade, but I can see that match taking FOREVER.  I think the map would play a big part in who won as well.  On a map with a lot of height difference I think I would have the advantage due to Revive's lack of vert tolerance.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 10, 2010, 07:25:49 PM
In light of the elemental absorption I'd like to fight pride's team with any team that I have posted( I think all are under 3000 jp)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on September 10, 2010, 10:42:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGLL-bG-Axw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8NBMTu2NvQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2kRXbqUW1A
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on September 10, 2010, 10:56:48 PM
Everyone wants a piece of the team and I'm glad its holding strong =P
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Xifanie on September 10, 2010, 11:01:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36oX6fdOXeE
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 11, 2010, 04:01:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyVzmxdp62k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyVzmxdp62k)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 11, 2010, 06:09:46 PM
It's clear now. our teams lost because of those mother fucking prog hitting. not because of their healing.

My priest heal my guys for awsome amounts of damage 150 at range of 6.(awsome)
My priests are very dangerous againts caster(faith is reason why).

I also would like to have my archers of doom fight againts pride.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 11, 2010, 08:22:34 PM
Alright, my new team, based around negative status infliction

Deneb's Garden
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on September 12, 2010, 11:14:49 PM
I want to fight that ^.  I think my team can take most physical teams, so I'd love to see it against something more status-heavy.  I'm pretty sure my team is still legal after the latest round of changes, just some higher MP costs for abilities I'm using.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Kaz on September 13, 2010, 03:50:14 AM
sorry mel, I recorded these last night. ill see if i can get you in w/ skip tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5u08hipgDs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_znmeULO6w
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 13, 2010, 04:46:22 AM
Skip's team was stupid againts zodiacs team, and the another video has copyright issues.

Skip's team coulda had it, if they woulda killed the knight before anything else.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 13, 2010, 05:34:39 AM
My bard is supposed to have life song, and not last song, I didn't notice any other mistakes. Yeah, my performance was rather poor, but this wasn't a very seriously made team to begin with, more of a 'doodle' then anything.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 13, 2010, 05:37:14 AM
I think it was a good team, but your team acted stupid with sleep.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 13, 2010, 01:12:07 PM
What i'm most disappointed about is that I didn't get to see a single casting of frog, I was hoping to catch people off guard with that, as it's a rather obscure status that most don't bother to protect against.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 13, 2010, 07:25:24 PM
Update on ARCHERS OF DOOOM!!!!!

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on September 13, 2010, 10:36:09 PM
I'm kind of surprised you didn't have Magic Song anyway, Skip.

I guess it's time for a new team with the new Beta. It seems especially timely given that KOF got raped recently anyway. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKxPeod8pvY)

Team Blazblue away!



For the record, I'm surprised philsov hasn't submitted a Dancer team again. I'm guessing he's busy.

Life EDIT: That Pray Faith was supposed to be Life Drain. Don't know how the hell that happened.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on September 14, 2010, 12:57:03 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADvrq9v3rR8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADvrq9v3rR8)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: The Damned on September 14, 2010, 03:02:06 AM
Ah, I thought you were going to do a MM-theme team when I read the first name, only to find out it was some Speed Save abomination. I feel betrayed.

Speaking of betrayals, I thought Lore wasn't supposed to repeat itself anymore? I could have sworn this was what was supposed to be done. Then again, no one really used Scholars for their abilities more than twice after Ultima first popped up and Damage Split is usually all we see of them otherwise.

Anyway, I would like my newest team to fight Skip Sandwich's garden, Shade's Holy Team and/or, since everyone else is doing it (masochists), Pride's Fire Team. Fighting Pride will probably be an uninteresting (curbstomp) battle though considering his Asura is basically a free X-Potion to his other Samurai or a free Elixir to his Geomancers. So...more so Skip Garden or Holy Shade than Prideful Fire.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on September 14, 2010, 04:58:41 AM
Lolis!
Death's Dancers from Hell Return!
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on September 14, 2010, 10:30:38 AM
PX vs My DOOM ARCHERS NOW!

Also FFM you made really fucking cheap combo, but it's weak point is that another teams with tanky archers(like mine) also with speed save might kill you alot faster than you'd think. Yell and speed save combined againts your team would probaly be brutal(half faster then your guys(and if archers they deal lot's of damage in range(bow get stronger the higher speed))).

So yes this is a suggestion to fight againts your team with my DOOM ARCHERS.

I had tight fight with Pride so why are you guys saying that you can't like defeat his(FFM proved that Prides team is winnable).


I fotgot about this team.
Using elemental healing to heal team mates.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on September 14, 2010, 09:45:12 PM
apparently, we are supposed to use the broken stuff in order to show that they are broken, so, why not giving ol' salty rage a try?

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Squidgy on September 26, 2010, 08:08:07 PM
Oh hi there...

Just started fiddlin' around with this patch, but there's lots to rummage through. Paladins, Archers, Ninjas... Did make a standard "abuse Scholar all target magic", 'cause I saw others were doin' it... using MA Save and Speed Save on everyone, then attacks which built up according. No more speed-based attacks aside from Dagger/Ninja Sword, but that worked in my preliminaries... oh wait, there's Shiruken... but Ninja stats are so much worse than Thief, just for innate 2H... meh.

It'd be nice to have a set of "official teams" to fight against though. Both balanced and gimmick, just a variety to face against... or was that in the save which came with? Couldn't get it working for some reason, so I used one from 1.3 Arena, and made up teams on my own.

I'll write it up if people're still lurkin' around here, waitin' for a challenge.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on September 27, 2010, 02:05:24 PM
I'd sugest the following teams for you to face:

secondadvent's team: good example of magic-heavy (status and damage)
pride's team: good example of a defensive team due to absorb combo and 40-40 units
my own team: good example of status heavy/"defensive" team ("defensive" cause it now has a huge threat in the paladin with salty rage)

there are more teams out there, but these ones were the best in tests so far, imo. Of course, this counts the teams created so far. There is a lot to be abused (last song + mime, mimicry in general, double absorb combos, init:faith mantle, etc) and haven't been used yet. I haven't changed my team yet since I'm still trying to show how stupid salty rage is when berserk gives +50% damage.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on October 10, 2010, 12:02:32 AM
Chiri spaming team mates



Btw YES, the chemists don't have secondaries(could not afford one)!


This another team got here later, but it's made the same style as some another team that is unfair and cheap.
BADASS SINGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Squidgy on October 18, 2010, 07:18:40 AM
Right! My team... haven't posted it yet. I was thinking to work in some absorbs on the Scholars to coax them to cast while critical, instead of relying on Item lovin', but I'll post the current version. Also I should really test Mad Science, but it scares me...


K... I just gave a Blast Gun user Shadowstrike from Ninjitsu. Saw... 287, forgot to check stats? I can't figure it out... but the numbers are very high.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on October 18, 2010, 01:14:51 PM
Nightslayer deals 75% damage, but only works on sleeping targets.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Squidgy on October 18, 2010, 07:29:12 PM
Okay... yeah. Neutral Compat 70/70 Fury Shadowstrikes doing 999 damage must be a bug... though that only happened once. It's more reliable to see ~376. Guess I should stop using it with guns... even if big numbers is fun.

Speed, Attack UP, and Strengthen all help so you can see the 999s easier. Sometimes it's only 917... and the damage shown often gets bumped up.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 09, 2010, 08:24:49 AM
Time to start on a new slate!

Submit a team, and I will host battles. Since so many changes have happened, I don't want to run battles against older teams. Unless major bugs or imbalances appear, expect version 124 to stay for a while, since I am planning to use this version to test the rule changes.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on November 09, 2010, 09:18:12 AM
Great to see this getting a revival. I'll be submitting a team soon (hopefully it'll be as successful as my last one =P)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: logus on November 09, 2010, 02:02:24 PM
same here. I'm quite excited at the changes, since they all seem great. Just a question: does the removal of "holy" property from cure etc make such spells useless against undead or just less effective?
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on November 09, 2010, 03:55:06 PM
Alright, here's a party I'd been toying with.  I'll probably come up with a new one soon to try out some more of the "equip X" abilities, but this will do for now:

The Dark


EDIT:  If we can choose our palette I would like purple please.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 09, 2010, 04:03:48 PM
:EDIT: changed team, D'Artigan the Archaic Demon is replaced by Blacksunne the Lancer, Guy's Coral swords swapped for Heaven's Clouds
:EDIT2: dropped Transfusion from Bussard since it was taking him over the jp limit.

"Grey Knights"

Team Notes
Bussard is my point man, and secondary healer/cleanser/reviver. his axe will deal from 252 upwards to 480 points of damage per swing (before brave modifiers).

Guy is my heritic hunter, he is supposed to run around spamming jutsus on low-faith units

Joanne is my witch hunter, she is supposed to run around spamming Dia/Black Magic on high-faith units

Blacksunne is my primary healer/cleanser/reviver, and the only non-paladin unit on the team. Built to resist status effects and evade attacks.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 09, 2010, 07:12:04 PM
Oh, yeah, forgot to mention. Please leave monsters out for now.

Removing Holy element just makes it less effective against undead, and you can't boost with 108 gems.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Squidgy on November 10, 2010, 01:05:06 AM
A team for testing!... well, I guess the Oracle and Thief are boring units. Oracle would never Draw Out though, even when poisoned and holding Masamune so I had to make her boring.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 11, 2010, 08:40:46 AM
@Skip - Bussard is 320 over the JP limit.
I also forgot to mention, you can request colour palettes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydHjbjoBvlo
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 11, 2010, 12:54:44 PM
@FFMaster
Oh! I see what I missed, I forgot to add in Transfusion's cost, edited.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on November 11, 2010, 02:18:31 PM
I learned something today!

The Dark Mark II

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on November 11, 2010, 03:44:33 PM
Reposting teams.


Earth Warriors



Archers Of Doom!!!

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 11, 2010, 07:42:32 PM
Melancthon, your first unit is now 120 over the JP limit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvdaaS69xJ8
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on November 11, 2010, 09:33:40 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Squidgy on November 11, 2010, 10:38:05 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on November 11, 2010, 11:43:12 PM
EDIT:  Please ignore this post

Whoops, sorry.

Change the reaction to Counter please.  

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 11, 2010, 11:57:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOggYCzQAe0
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: dinosaur on November 12, 2010, 01:50:00 AM
I have always wondered about this team ... lets see if it works


FFM: Is there a way for my Ninjas to sing the whole time unless my Wizard or Priest are in critical then they should start healing?

Thank you for all your work :)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on November 12, 2010, 09:30:04 AM
My chemists must be stupid or something, one they rushed to attack(they did not even attack) for no parent reason, two why did that other chemist heal itself when she was on critical?

My pride on my team was taken....
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on November 12, 2010, 03:35:06 PM
Please excuse me for being a total idiot.  Do NOT give that unit Counter, just drop Steal Heart and make it even.  Here is the team I would actually like to be using.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on November 12, 2010, 08:21:36 PM
Team Body Parts




Ps. CF= Cover Fire

Edit: update is here
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 12, 2010, 11:00:43 PM

I'm officially ditching Slow Dance for Nameless Song since it got nerfed to 20%, but the team still functions as intended with the weakened Slow Dance, so feel free to run it that way if you want to test.

Shade, you have three Blood Swords, and Blood Swords can't be Two Sworded.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 13, 2010, 01:51:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SPmMhItzU
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Otabo on November 13, 2010, 03:14:19 AM
Just a test play team.

EDITED: Changed Slow Dance for Nameless.


Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on November 13, 2010, 04:06:36 AM
Updated slightly with the Slow Dance nerf.

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on November 13, 2010, 08:45:37 AM
Quote from: "pokeytax"

I'm officially ditching Slow Dance for Last Dance since it got nerfed to 20%, but the team still functions as intended with the weakened Slow Dance, so feel free to run it that way if you want to test.

Shade, you have three Blood Swords, and Blood Swords can't be Two Sworded.

Well you can have 3 pieces of equipment long as they are only with two guys.

Quote
Only two units can equip any individual item.

But you were right on two sworded blood sword that you can't equip two on one guy, so I fixed.

Guys my latest team is fixed.

Quote from: "Shade"
Team Body Parts



Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on November 13, 2010, 04:42:43 PM
Poisoned Wine
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 13, 2010, 06:17:27 PM
Here is a memory card with the fresh teams, if your computer comes as close to a nervous breakdown while processing FFMaster's spreadsheet as mine does.  I made a few minor tweaks to fix JP cap issues (and PX being too lazy to enter Brave/Faith, you slacker).

Maybe I will run a round robin or something, since I can run matches fine but not record well.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on November 13, 2010, 06:50:21 PM
That's awesome pokeytax. I can't get the spreadsheet to work either and I was wanting to host some matches. I'll have several up today with that. Thank you.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on November 13, 2010, 07:41:14 PM
:P I completely forgot to put in Fury/Faith
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: CT5Holy on November 13, 2010, 08:46:23 PM
Don't Act/Sleeping only

PX: Fixed that spoiler for you.

EDIT: small change in abilities
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on November 13, 2010, 11:58:53 PM
some battles





Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on November 14, 2010, 01:24:49 AM
Here's a team i like to use

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 14, 2010, 02:44:43 AM
Halfway through; doing a best-of-three for each matchup.  I will post more analysis at the end.  A lot of very boring stalemates - if I could ban one ability it would be Move-HP Up.

Code: [Select]
Counter-Terrorists 8-1
Orange Company     9-3
Grey Knights       9-3
Gruff n' Stuff     9-3
Zombie Pride       6-6
Body Parts         5-7  
Charwizard         4-11
Poisoned Wine      2-10
The Dark Mark II   2-10
 

Counter-Terrorists  
A very mundane team with solid fundamentals.  You can do well without exploiting broken garbage!
Orange Company    
Hilariously broken 70% Charm offensive, but next to no sandbag power.
Grey Knights        
Bussard is easily tournament MVP and his backup is pretty meaty too.
Otabo      
Secret Fist, Steal Heart, and Nameless Dance is enough status.  Without 20% of the population wearing an Angel Ring, Death Sentence is very strong.
Pride        
Has fought some long stalemates where Polka Polka found use.  Offed Bussard in a classic brawl with Zombie/Raise 2.
Body Parts              
Quite effective Cover Fire with the glass cannon Monks, but pretty much kaput if they go down.
dinosaur          
Tends to split up, get divided and conquered.  Pretty reasonable damage even against 40 Faith, though.
Poisoned Wine
Zero offense. Basically nip away with status and hope the other team dies of poison.
The Dark Mark II  
Love the concept, the teleporting Draw Out gives me Elmdor flashbacks, but Fire weakness is a horrible vulnerability.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Pride on November 14, 2010, 03:10:26 AM
70% charm is bullshit
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Otabo on November 14, 2010, 03:49:43 AM
Yeah, seriously. That is ridiculous.

Anywho, I'm scrapping that team for another one. Gonna do some testing with it before I post it, though.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 14, 2010, 04:09:24 AM
Heh, yeah, I'll pull some numbers out in the thread, and discuss balance there, so this thread isn't as clogged up.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Eternal on November 14, 2010, 04:16:58 AM
Behold, the Warriors of Might! Not to be confused with the Warriors of Light. They're doomed. :P

Eternal248
Team Order: 1, 3, 2, 4
Palette: 1, 2

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on November 14, 2010, 07:43:43 AM
Yeah, I think I'm done screwing around with undead.  Love the Cursed Ring, but the elemental weaknesses and the coin-flip re-raise are just too risky for my blood.  I still think the team is viable, it would just need a drastic overhaul.  The Time Mages should not have Haste, the support unit needs a complete re-build, and the Bard needs to be forced to sing, even if it means throwing him out there weaponless and without a secondary.  I would have given him Move-1 if I could.

I'll have a new team later today probably, thanks for the matches!
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on November 14, 2010, 12:39:53 PM
And the test is done, so martial arts does not boost cover fire.
by calculations their minium damage should been around 130(againts 70 fury). At max 390, it was good thing that it wasn't.

Academy Team
Colors brown and green

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 14, 2010, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: "Melancthon"
Yeah, I think I'm done screwing around with undead.  Love the Cursed Ring, but the elemental weaknesses and the coin-flip re-raise are just too risky for my blood.  I still think the team is viable, it would just need a drastic overhaul.  The Time Mages should not have Haste, the support unit needs a complete re-build, and the Bard needs to be forced to sing, even if it means throwing him out there weaponless and without a secondary.  I would have given him Move-1 if I could.

I'll have a new team later today probably, thanks for the matches!

For what it's worth I loved your team, but the two support units were ludicrously ineffectual and the Undead Ring is not ready for primetime. (Maybe with a Flame Shield... no.)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 14, 2010, 07:59:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORCRRX-ixnY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORCRRX-ixnY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VV08hdH9s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VV08hdH9s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxL5R4oYhzA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxL5R4oYhzA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAyZo-VZpE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAyZo-VZpE)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Barren on November 14, 2010, 08:14:14 PM
The only thing i forgot to add was the palette. so I choose palettes 3 and 5 here's my team again:
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Shade on November 14, 2010, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: "Shade"
Earth Warriors


I would like to have this team fight before Academy Team.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 14, 2010, 10:36:09 PM
Well, that took too long.  Next time I will split into divisions and run best-of-one with single elimination playoffs.

Code: [Select]
Counter-Terrorists 18-4-2
Orange Company     17-5-2
Gruff n' Stuff     17-7
Grey Knights       15-9
Zombie Pride       11-12-1
Body Parts         10-14  
Poisoned Wine      7-16-1
The Dark Mark II   6-18
Charwizard         4-20
 

Good:
lolcharms (ban Steal Heart with MA > 7 until next patch)
Secret Fist (regularly wrecked whole teams)
Cover Fire (Cover Fire + Concentrate > 90% of AoE skills, great power and range, partially bypasses Defense UP)
Bussard (seriously, dude was a badass - may have to examine axe/handbag scaling)
Sandbagging (Squidgy's very vanilla team did quite well thanks to hellacious sandbagging, overall res units were well correlated with success)

Bad:
Undead Ring (one-shot Dia, horrifying. plus Raise, potions, Murasame, Fire 2, Asura... just unusable)
Jutsus (there's still room to play with these though)
Silf (terrible success rate, Don't Move is hardly a premier status)


Ugly:
40 Brave units with Regen and/or Move-HP Up and/or Blood Sword and/or Damage Split and/or Speed Save and/or Unyielding
Likewise, whole teams unable to reliably outpace regen/potion usage
Execute doesn't function properly (seems to Add: Critical, rather than functioning on Critical units), Greased Bolt is useless since Chicken expires next turn
Axes sometimes seem to hit twice, although the second hit never connects so it's purely visual I guess
Damage Split (this is a lot less clever when it's on every single unit)
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 14, 2010, 10:55:47 PM
It might be nice to have a thread with zero discussion, one page of team posts, edit your post if you want to edit your team(s)?  A bit hard to keep track in here.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Melancthon on November 14, 2010, 11:50:01 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence pokeytax, I loved them too.  I think I addressed your points in my last post too, so I think we're on the same page.  They were based on a theoretical team with no unit/skill/item/JP restrictions that I made (the thief was another c/p Time Mage and they were all undead).  I really don't think undead will be viable until we see a Necromancer job that can revive them  :) .  I think my problem is that I get caught up in sub-themes (Dark absorb in this case) to the detriment of my team as a whole.

That being said:

Ominous Sky

Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 15, 2010, 12:44:55 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Otabo on November 15, 2010, 01:20:04 AM
New team that I'm starting to warm up to...


Damn spoiler tag won't accept apostrophes.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 15, 2010, 02:04:40 PM
Can Monks equip ribbons? I honestly don't know, between vanilla/1.3/ASM'd.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Otabo on November 15, 2010, 02:11:06 PM
Female monks can. Pretty sure it's always been like that unless that was changed in Arena.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: FFMaster on November 15, 2010, 06:19:08 PM
Male Monks can equip Ribbons, the only headgear they have.
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 16, 2010, 02:08:59 AM
my newest team
[spoiler="Tatake! Alkaiser!":4tsswgu6]Palette: Home Red, Away Yellow

Alkaiser
Male
Leo
70
40
Paladin
Punch Art
HP Restore
Martial Arts

Heaven's Cloud
Genji Shield
Barbuta
Carabini Mail
Battle Boots

Transfusion
Wave Fist, Repeating Fist, Spin Fist, Chakra, Revive, Stigma Magic

Fuse
Male
Sagitarius
70
40
Archer
Item
Speed Save
Concentrate
Jump +2
Gastrifitus

Green Beret
Black Costume
Battle Boots

Cover Fire
Hi-Potion, Ether, Bandage, Holy Water, Soft, Maiden's Kiss, Phoenix Down

Doll
Female
Aries
70
70
Geomancer
Summon Magic
Counter Flood
Half of MP
Move-HP UP
Giant Axe

Flash Hat
Wizard Outfit
Magic Ring

All Geomancy
Ramuh, Leviatian, Fairy

Cotton
Female
Serpentarius
70
70
Mime[/spoiler]

my team even has it's own theme song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgFJJSkaRGw


download the mp3 here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TROMFTT4 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TROMFTT4)


[Tatae kono mi ga kuchihateyouto...
kesshite akirame ha shinai!]
[Kono sekai ni...
ashita wo shinjiru kokoro ga aru kagiri...]
[Ushinai ha shinai! Kibou no ENERGY!!]
[Setsumenshiyou! Okonogi Retsu ha SANTUARIO kara yatte kita senshi
ALKARL kara sazukatta chikara de, seigi no HERO ALKAISER he to henshin suru no da!]
[Uooooo---!! HENSHIN! ALKAISER---!!!!]

:EDIT: fun fact, this team is based off of the team I used to clear Red's scenario in SaGa Frontier, the only one missing from my lineup is Rabbit, the little mech with the SATELLITE LASER CANNON

Alkaiser wields Punch Arts with an effective PA of 27, making him even more buff then Bussard

I always train Fuse as a gunner in SaGa Frontier, so that's what he appears as here

Doll is there for AoE and anti-sandbaggery

Cotton is the adorable little monster girl and team mascot
Title: Re: Arena battle topic
Post by: pokeytax on November 17, 2010, 01:35:53 AM
This is my first video, next time I will run more teams but I wanted something I knew would be a lightning round to start.
Otabo (Bloody's Angels) v. Pokeytax (Scholars and Gentlemen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nngF27A3ZME
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on November 17, 2010, 05:12:58 AM
This topic is for those who want to challenge each other to battles using the Arena Patch.

If you want to submit a team, post it in the Team submission thread. This thread is now for videos and discussion only! If you wish to propose a balance change, please post in the right thread.

Hopefully, this makes it a bit less cluttered.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 18, 2010, 03:27:58 AM
Zaen (Electrifying) v. Skip Sandwich (FIGHT! ALKAISER!)  :oops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkJ6dvC6loY
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 18, 2010, 04:01:25 AM
That's not my team!

(Looks like Zaen)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 18, 2010, 02:02:46 PM
aww you didn't use my team's theme music. GG team Electrifying! It was a hard fought match, but in the end, you were no match for the shining justice of ALKAISER!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on November 18, 2010, 02:08:11 PM
Hmm... Yeah, I definitely need to rework this setup(and probably completely).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 18, 2010, 11:51:03 PM

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Gotwald on November 19, 2010, 03:33:04 AM
First Arena Video! Thanks to pokeytax for memory cards.

Pride = "Another Boring Team" vs CT5Holy = "Don't act/Sleeping only"

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Gotwald on November 19, 2010, 03:49:58 PM
The next fight! Barren vs Squidgy!


Barren, IP man didn't use repeating fist, and there was no "BRUURURURURURUuRTRBRUTBRTT". Disappointing.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 19, 2010, 04:50:47 PM
Now that you mention it, I am pretty sure I saw Alkaiser whiff a Repeating Fist in a test match - are we sure it's flagged unblockable?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 19, 2010, 07:49:09 PM







Hope you guys like my commentary
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on November 19, 2010, 09:22:39 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Now that you mention it, I am pretty sure I saw Alkaiser whiff a Repeating Fist in a test match - are we sure it's flagged unblockable?

Just looked at the FFTPatch. It is evadable, but will be fixed next version. For now, just don't use it.

Quote from: "Gotwald"
The next fight! Barren vs Squidgy!


Barren, IP man didn't use repeating fist, and there was no "BRUURURURURURUuRTRBRUTBRTT". Disappointing.

Awesome fight though. Speed Save eventually caught up on Barren. And I agree that Cover Fire is too good right now, and will need a slight tonedown in damage and an increase in MP
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 19, 2010, 11:26:59 PM
Sorry, Shade, I screwed up both your teams. The new file has Earth Warriors fixed, Academy Team will have to wait.

Nice matches guys! I'm gonna run a round-robin league in divisions and maybe someone else can comment the playoffs.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 19, 2010, 11:32:43 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Sorry, Shade, I screwed up both your teams. The new file has Earth Warriors fixed, Academy Team will have to wait.

Nice matches guys! I'm gonna run a round-robin league in divisions and maybe someone else can comment the playoffs.

I volunteer to comment the playoffs
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on November 20, 2010, 12:21:27 AM
Yeah, compared to Shuriken, Cover Fire wins.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on November 20, 2010, 12:22:32 AM
I like the 36 second battle between me and Eternal.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 20, 2010, 12:36:17 AM
Yes PX, that was quick and brutal
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on November 20, 2010, 03:47:04 AM
Wow, just watched Pride vs Shade... massive stallfest there. I really hate Lore for that reason. It slows the game down too much imo, but a very nice battle. Nice team Shade.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on November 20, 2010, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Sorry, Shade, I screwed up both your teams. The new file has Earth Warriors fixed, Academy Team will have to wait.
WTF WAS WRONG WITH ACADEMY TEAM?!?!?
Dude tell me what was wrong with my academy team?

Quote from: "FFMaster"
Wow, just watched Pride vs Shade... massive stallfest there. I really hate Lore for that reason. It slows the game down too much imo, but a very nice battle. Nice team Shade.
Yeah it did not help that prides team hapens to have low faith, low fury, high evasion, and that I did not have quake(woulda helped alot!). Lore wasn't suppose to be my main attack, it was suppose to be support for my knights(like really good regen that actually also damages enemies), but it seems that it's really nice main attack higher faith enemies(160 sometimes on row, while my guys get the same amout of hp).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 20, 2010, 03:39:52 PM
Quote from: "Shade"
WTF WAS WRONG WITH ACADEMY TEAM?!?!?

I accidentally used the Earth Warrior team instead.  It'll be fixed Monday.

The spreadsheet seems to swap Quake and Tornado - Melancthon's team has Quake instead of Tornado.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on November 20, 2010, 04:25:49 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Quote from: "Shade"
WTF WAS WRONG WITH ACADEMY TEAM?!?!?

I accidentally used the Earth Warrior team instead.  It'll be fixed Monday.

The spreadsheet seems to swap Quake and Tornado - Melancthon's team has Quake instead of Tornado.

Are you saying they changed place?
Since Barren recorded the Academy team figthing.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 20, 2010, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
The spreadsheet seems to swap Quake and Tornado - Melancthon's team has Quake instead of Tornado.

Well that's unfortunate.  Pretty much screws up the whole team.  If it can me fixed I'd love to see them in a fight, if not no big deal.  I was beginning to have doubts about them anyway and had planned on trying something different.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 21, 2010, 02:19:10 AM
Arena League II

I was using the posted set of memory cards, so changes made after that didn't take affect.

Code: [Select]
Western Division

FIGHT! ALKAISER!    5-2
Femme Fatale        5-2
Team Ip             5-2
Counter-Terrorists  4-2-1
Ominous Sky         3-4
Another Boring Team 2-5
Electrifying        2-5
Gotwald             1-5-1

FIGHT! ALKAISER!
One superhero and some assorted backup.  Reasonably good Mime synergy with summons and Cover Fire.
Femme Fatale
Beastly Geomancy with plenty of support.
Team Ip
One superhero and some assorted backup.  Relied on charms and healing as support, rather than anyone but Ip Man killing people.
Counter-Terrorists
Still quite effective, but less able to deal with the higher level of offense this time around.
Ominous Sky
Lacked the damage output of the top teams and a bit flimsy.
Another Boring Team
Nerfed down to no longer be an unstoppable juggernaut.
Electrifying
Not enough lightning absorption/immunity or offensive punch.
Gotwald
Minimal offense outside of Lore.  Eventually provoked too many Speed Saves and HP Restores.


Code: [Select]
Eastern Division

Bloody's Angels     5-2
Xtreme Sandbagging  4-3
Mass Destruction    4-3
Secret Hunt         4-3
Salty Spice         3-4
Earth Warriors      3-4
Warriors of Might   3-4
Flames of Passion   2-5

Bloody's Angels
A balanced team with pretty fierce offense.  King of the weaker division IMO.
Xtreme Sandbagging
Not a lot of offense, but haste and plenty of, yes, sandbagging.
Mass Destruction
Absolutely annihilated a few teams with an opening salvo, but fairly vulnerable to status magic.
Secret Hunt
A failure conceptually, but pulled through thanks to a hero Squire with Yin-Yang and double Abandon.
Salty Spice
No rez or healing besides HP Restore - kinda frightening it won three matches!  Berserk is monstrous.
Earth Warriors
Like Gotwald's team, not enough offense outside Lore.
Warriors of Might
Female berserkers not a good choice.  Again, no rez or healing.
Flames of Passion
Pulled out two wins pretty much solely on the strength of Nameless Dance. Not much offense.

Code: [Select]
FIGHT! ALKAISER!   \_____
Secret Hunt        /     \_____
Femme Fatale       \_____/     \
Mass Destruction   /            \
                                 \_____
                                 /
Team Ip            \_____       /
Xtreme Sandbagging /     \_____/                          
Counter-Terrorists \_____/
Bloody's Angels    /

Good
Badasses (Ip Man, Alkaiser, Bloody and GoGoGo all dropped some bodies, a well-supported PA-based hero unit was effective)
Yin-Yang Magic (Paralyze a terrific spell against high-Faith units)
Nameless Dance (8 ticks for 2 status ailments is 3 status ailments a turn - should have been here last week, Otabo used it to great effect)
Salty Rage (neither of the berserker teams did well, but Salty Rage one-shot KOs are very strong)
Two Hands Poles (Ivory Rod is a great equip)
revival/Haste (fundamentals still apply)
Bio 2 (25% proc rate? definitely a better way to inflict Frog than casting Frog)

Bad
Wiznaibus (Lore's downsides with little upside)
Sing (hard to balance this with map size and Mimic, I know!)

Ugly
Lore (situationally effective, but is hard countered by Save/HP Restore - removing persevere probably a good idea)
Masamune (if you're hurt enough to need healing, may as well just Murasame)
My Spreadsheeting (I'll do better next time guys)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on November 21, 2010, 04:09:02 PM
Much agreed. Time to do some reworking and plenty of testing... forgot to think about damage output. I do hope Lore gets a bit of reworking; the persevere + lowish damage + elemental healing makes a lot of the fights rather tedious and makes battles rather lacklustre.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 21, 2010, 11:57:50 PM
I ran some matches in order to prove to Shade that Paladins are a lil' overpowered.  Mostly, it just proved that Shade's Academy Team is pretty badass.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 22, 2010, 12:05:42 AM
I think Team RAMROD is a contender.  

Issues addressed:  Fragility; sub-theme distractions; damage output.

Hopefully.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on November 22, 2010, 12:56:06 AM
The first match showed every axe hit to do MORE than projected.

It's proof more that Axe + Berserk + Fury + Compat + Possibly Attack UP + PA Boost equipment is... scary.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pride on November 22, 2010, 04:58:29 AM
The problem isn't the Paladins imo, its Salty Rage that causes the disruption as Paladins are the best abusers of Salty Rage.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on November 22, 2010, 05:26:01 AM
Quote from: "Zaen"
The first match showed every axe hit to do MORE than projected.

It's proof more that Axe + Berserk + Fury + Compat + Possibly Attack UP + PA Boost equipment is... scary.

It was neutral compat whole time...

Btw I have seen axes do very low damage like under 50 with 21wp.

Also temporary rules has been added, no more salty rage guys. Says PX.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 22, 2010, 07:39:25 AM
Arena axes deal a random amount of damage between slightly over 100% of straight PA * WP, up to 200% of PA * WP (aka, Two Hands damage level), with an average expected damage over time of 150% of PA * WA. with the Slasher, this comes out to being equal to PA * 18 damage over time, compared to the Defender's PA * 16 damage.

The Slasher should probably receive a WP nerf down to 10 from 12, this puts it at the equivalent of PA * 15 over time, with damage spikes of up to PA * 20.

The Giant axe would be fine if we removed it's Earth element property (and thus it's self element boost), it would still boost most geomancy effects and as such would retain its current usefulness.

the Battle axe would likewise be fine at WP 8, since it has what is basically an instant death proc.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 22, 2010, 12:27:08 PM
When the formula was (1..PA)*WP, the damage spread was a liability, but with the (PA+1..PA*2) formula it's more of a plus, as you can spike up and one-shot things like a decapitation proc. So 10 WP is probably about right.  It's less of a concern without Salty Rage, though.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 22, 2010, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Arena League II

I was using the posted set of memory cards, so changes made after that didn't take affect.

Code: [Select]
Western Division

FIGHT! ALKAISER!    5-2
Femme Fatale        5-2
Team Ip             5-2
Counter-Terrorists  4-2-1
Ominous Sky         3-4
Another Boring Team 2-5
Electrifying        2-5
Gotwald             1-5-1

FIGHT! ALKAISER!
One superhero and some assorted backup.  Reasonably good Mime synergy with summons and Cover Fire.
Femme Fatale
Beastly Geomancy with plenty of support.
Team Ip
One superhero and some assorted backup.  Relied on charms and healing as support, rather than anyone but Ip Man killing people.
Counter-Terrorists
Still quite effective, but less able to deal with the higher level of offense this time around.
Ominous Sky
Lacked the damage output of the top teams and a bit flimsy.
Another Boring Team
Nerfed down to no longer be an unstoppable juggernaut.
Electrifying
Not enough lightning absorption/immunity or offensive punch.
Gotwald
Minimal offense outside of Lore.  Eventually provoked too many Speed Saves and HP Restores.


Code: [Select]
Eastern Division

Bloody's Angels     5-2
Xtreme Sandbagging  4-3
Mass Destruction    4-3
Secret Hunt         4-3
Salty Spice         3-4
Earth Warriors      3-4
Warriors of Might   3-4
Flames of Passion   2-5

Bloody's Angels
A balanced team with pretty fierce offense.  King of the weaker division IMO.
Xtreme Sandbagging
Not a lot of offense, but haste and plenty of, yes, sandbagging.
Mass Destruction
Absolutely annihilated a few teams with an opening salvo, but fairly vulnerable to status magic.
Secret Hunt
A failure conceptually, but pulled through thanks to a hero Squire with Yin-Yang and double Abandon.
Salty Spice
No rez or healing besides HP Restore - kinda frightening it won three matches!  Berserk is monstrous.
Earth Warriors
Like Gotwald's team, not enough offense outside Lore.
Warriors of Might
Female berserkers not a good choice.  Again, no rez or healing.
Flames of Passion
Pulled out two wins pretty much solely on the strength of Nameless Dance. Not much offense.

Code: [Select]
FIGHT! ALKAISER!   \_____
Secret Hunt        /     \_____
Femme Fatale       \_____/     \
Mass Destruction   /            \
                                 \_____
                                 /
Team Ip            \_____       /
Xtreme Sandbagging /     \_____/                          
Counter-Terrorists \_____/
Bloody's Angels    /

Good
Badasses (Ip Man, Alkaiser, Bloody and GoGoGo all dropped some bodies, a well-supported PA-based hero unit was effective)
Yin-Yang Magic (Paralyze a terrific spell against high-Faith units)
Nameless Dance (8 ticks for 2 status ailments is 3 status ailments a turn - should have been here last week, Otabo used it to great effect)
Salty Rage (neither of the berserker teams did well, but Salty Rage one-shot KOs are very strong)
Two Hands Poles (Ivory Rod is a great equip)
revival/Haste (fundamentals still apply)
Bio 2 (25% proc rate? definitely a better way to inflict Frog than casting Frog)

Bad
Wiznaibus (Lore's downsides with little upside)
Sing (hard to balance this with map size and Mimic, I know!)

Ugly
Lore (situationally effective, but is hard countered by Save/HP Restore - removing persevere probably a good idea)
Masamune (if you're hurt enough to need healing, may as well just Murasame)
My Spreadsheeting (I'll do better next time guys)

if you want me to Pokeytax, i can call your 8 division matches you have posted. i have time today to put up some matches for you
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 22, 2010, 12:49:46 PM
Go for it if you want! But don't spend a bunch of time on it unless it's fun for you, I will have the new cards up soon if you'd rather do other teams.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 22, 2010, 01:02:18 PM
i don't mind at all. ill get started this afternoon.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 22, 2010, 05:41:08 PM
FFT Arena Division Quarter Final Match 1 Skip Sandwhich vs Pokeytax



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on November 22, 2010, 08:17:40 PM
Wow, Grand Cross. One of my favourite effect files. It's nice getting to see it once in a while.

Very nice set of matches.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 22, 2010, 08:23:16 PM
It could be used a lot better than I used it - I wasn't quite sure how it worked, though.  It's weapon damage formula, non-elemental, hits self subject to front evasion?  I assumed non-elemental because otherwise someone would have been spamming it with absorb by now.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 22, 2010, 09:30:49 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 23, 2010, 12:45:05 AM
GG Skip, I love Mimes so your team is an easy A.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 23, 2010, 12:12:44 PM
FFT Arena Division Quarter Final Match 2 SecondAdvent vs CT5Holy



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 23, 2010, 03:54:27 PM
New patch!

I will make new cards Wednesday with any fresh teams and then I'm away for the holiday.  Barren, maybe you should run your own new tourney on the new patch?  Even if you just ran best-of-one with eight teams that are new and/or tough, it would probably tell us more than finishing out playoffs, sad to say - that's life with a responsive dev cycle.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 23, 2010, 04:16:33 PM
i'll do what i can, ill be busy during the holiday myself. but i can do is add the teams who you listed as the teams with the least amount of wins as a separate tournament. that probably will happen after i'm done with the best-of-eight.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 23, 2010, 04:24:37 PM
Yeah, do whatever you want goes without saying, I'm not your boss!

In other news, Stone Gun is worse than gigacharms, I already reequipped my team with Romanda Guns:


Skip puts up a good fight, but you can see that they are too powerful, even on a small map.  Either change them to Range 3 or WP 10, maybe?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 23, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
Well nonetheless, have a very happy thanksgiving Pokeytax
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 23, 2010, 11:49:26 PM
FFT Arena Division Quarter Final Match 3 Barren vs DomieV



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 24, 2010, 01:35:32 PM
@pokeytax RE: Stone Guns
i'm pretty sure what you saw there was an example of good compat + 70-70 fury + attack UP, in other words, the worst case secenario.

Maybe instead of or in addition to Initial: Petrify, they could have Always: Slow and Immune: Haste, they should probably be forced 2-hands as well
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 25, 2010, 01:55:25 AM
So I was gone for two (or was it three) weeks, but I finally caught up. Geez, that "watched pot never boils" analogy sure loves to bite people in the ass with its relative truth.

Hey, pokeytax, if you've the time over the upcoming holiday, I edited my team a bit already because I realized how idiotic it was for Zero be completely neutered by Absorb Fire.

I've my own suggestions with regards to Stone Gun, but I'll put it the Item thread.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
download the mp3 here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TROMFTT4 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TROMFTT4)


:EDIT: fun fact, this team is based off of the team I used to clear Red's scenario in SaGa Frontier, the only one missing from my lineup is Rabbit, the little mech with the SATELLITE LASER CANNON

Alkaiser wields Punch Arts with an effective PA of 27, making him even more buff then Bussard

I always train Fuse as a gunner in SaGa Frontier, so that's what he appears as here

Doll is there for AoE and anti-sandbaggery

Cotton is the adorable little monster girl and team mascot

Ah, yeah. Nice to see some Saga Frontier love. I still need to finish that game, Red's being one of three scenarios I still need to finish; the others being Blue's and Aselius's (?).

I wasn't even aware this song existed but it and video are pretty awesome. I was all sadface last night because the song didn't seem to work after I downloaded, so I deleted; I got it to work by just changing the name after the idea to occurred to me a few minutes ago. Apparently VLC just freaks out at kanji or something. It does sound a little bit static-y in the middle though; not sure what's that about.

Regardless, thanks.

Quote from: "Barren"
Hope you guys like my commentary

It's...interesting, but ultimately helpful (or at least not obnoxious). You commentating is like a combination of RavenofRazgriz's voice and Voldemort's snacking habits in addition to some...interesting pronunciation of things.

Still, much thanks to you, pokeytax and Gotwald for running so many matches and posting videos of them.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 25, 2010, 02:29:05 AM
Critical Quick, at least, is bugged to check every hit instead of just hits in Critical, like the new MP Restore.

I am already away from a computer that can handle the editing, but the spreadsheet's there with every team already for anyone who doesn't want to input them. I think Jump is non-elemental rather than weapon-elemental, though, for no good reason.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on November 25, 2010, 02:58:30 AM
I messed it up yeah. typo in the code.

Uploaded the quick fix.
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5625 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5625)

It was 1 number lol
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 25, 2010, 03:25:15 AM
Oh, the Critical Quick thing was a mistake? Ignore my comment on in the abilities thread then.

*breathes sigh of relief*

Quote from: "pokeytax"
Critical Quick, at least, is bugged to check every hit instead of just hits in Critical, like the new MP Restore.

I am already away from a computer that can handle the editing, but the spreadsheet's there with every team already for anyone who doesn't want to input them. I think Jump is non-elemental rather than weapon-elemental, though, for no good reason.

*facepalms*

Ugh, it shows how long it'd been since I've played (any) game. Still, he needed a quick non-elemental attack, so it's all good (until it comes back to still bite me in the ass).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Xifanie on November 25, 2010, 10:54:30 AM
I found your commentary very good Barren, I don't really care if you have a weird pronunciation; I have no problem understand you at all.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 25, 2010, 11:30:32 AM
Thankyou very much Zodiac. I like doing commentary on FFT AI matches :) I try my best and be sure I know what im saying. Im glad you enjoyed the matches i put on so far.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 26, 2010, 12:46:02 AM
Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were unintelligible or anything. You're very clear in what you mean even if you pronounce a few things a lot differently than I'm used to with something that sounds like French-esque pronunciation. Hell, unless your accent was thicker than PsychedelicEyeball's, I wouldn't have trouble understanding you if volume isn't an issue (which it isn't).

It's just a bit jarring to be reminded that I still make the mistake of thinking that everyone on the Internet pronounces words the same way that I do or even speaks English as their first language if they don't make a point to say that it's something they learned after another one.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 26, 2010, 02:19:00 AM
Quote from: "The Damned"
Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were unintelligible or anything. You're very clear in what you mean even if you pronounce a few things a lot differently than I'm used to with something that sounds like French-esque pronunciation. Hell, unless your accent was thicker than PsychedelicEyeball's, I wouldn't have trouble understanding you if volume isn't an issue (which it isn't).

It's just a bit jarring to be reminded that I still make the mistake of thinking that everyone on the Internet pronounces words the same way that I do or even speaks English as their first language if they don't make a point to say that it's something they learned after another one.

don't worry about it. i know you didn't mean anything bad when you gave me your opinion on my commentary. I always try to be clear anyways at what i'm saying and I'm glad that my volume was not the issue that would get in the way of the commentary. I appreciate the kind words from you and zodiac :) i'll post more FFT Arena vids tomorrow. As far as my pronouncing goes, I am Italian so my accent may sound different than other people
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on November 26, 2010, 02:35:30 AM
Trust me, you don't want to hear an Australian accent mixed with Asian =p

Plus, I don't have a mic anyway.

Your commentary is good Barren.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Archael on November 26, 2010, 02:39:24 AM
+1 Barren commentary
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 26, 2010, 02:56:34 PM
FFT Arena Division Quarter Final Match 4 Squidgy vs Otabo



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Archael on November 26, 2010, 04:58:34 PM
wow someone give this guy a prize that's some great commentary
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 26, 2010, 05:23:31 PM
Im happy you're enjoying my commentary :) But i still think you're one of the best there is when it comes to commentary
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on November 26, 2010, 06:04:58 PM

EDIT: Oh, and it was probably the Scholar All-Magic stuff which caused nobody to sandbag.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 26, 2010, 06:20:20 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on November 26, 2010, 07:18:09 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 26, 2010, 10:53:08 PM
I had to look at Shuriken's formula to see why it was so doing so much damn damage.

Oh, Speed Save. Is there any ability you aren't a complete asshole with?

Anyway, yes, I agree with Voldemort. I think your commentary is getting even better, Barren.

(Oh, and pokeytax, I changed my team yet again already. Sorry. I'll make a change log after my next change, which I hope won't occur until after some testing is done.)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 27, 2010, 02:03:18 AM
thank you everyone for your compliments :) you guys are awesome
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 27, 2010, 09:21:59 PM
FFT Arena Division Semi Final Match 1 Pokeytax vs SecondAdvent



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 27, 2010, 11:00:06 PM
I keep forgetting that Yuna doesn't have attacking summons because of the name. (Silf doesn't count.)

Still, some of the better matches. Thanks Barren.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 28, 2010, 12:32:26 PM

I didn't realize Barren was swapping out the teams for new ones, that is a much more clever thing to do than stopping the tourney.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 28, 2010, 09:26:48 PM
Thanks for running matches Barren, you're doing a good job.  Is anyone thinking of doing some non-"tournament" matches?  Or are we waiting for the next update again?  I'm dying to know if Team RAMROD is actually the most competitive team I've made yet or if I'm still right in the middle of the pack.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 29, 2010, 03:52:47 AM
I only need to run 2 more mathces then i'll up some new teams that are entering, your RAMROD will be one of them....in fact, the new teams will take on the FFT Division Champion :)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 29, 2010, 02:44:25 PM
FFT Arena Division Semi Final Match 2 Barren vs Squidgy



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 29, 2010, 03:42:32 PM
Well, that was quick. Thanks for being on top of this, Barren.


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on November 29, 2010, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: "The Damned"

Hmmm...despite it arguably being Ninjutsu's only useful skill, Shuriken needs some type of chance, if perhaps being made evadable. It probably needs more than considering how much Speed Save makes it ridiculous. Oh well, more fodder for my argument that Speed Save's JP cost needs to be increased even more.


Actually it is evadable. That guy just haves concentrate. Speed save doesn't make it OP at all, it's just how strong it is while using knight sword.
Speed save affects more to the skill with higher WP. The skill would be still OP even if it was not possible to boost by speed(pure WP formula nothing else).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on November 29, 2010, 06:12:56 PM
My first version used elemental guns and Shuriken, but the element carries over, so immune/absorb units ruined it a bit. Also the WP was lower...

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 29, 2010, 06:49:14 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 30, 2010, 11:15:22 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 30, 2010, 12:30:26 PM
*sniffles because he feels unloved*

J/k. I know I'm not.

Hmm...I wonder why the graphics for the crystals and the treasures were acting up.

And, my, I keep forgetting how stupid the AI is with regards to healing and Murasame. You'd think it would at least step away from the enemy before it healed itself....
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 30, 2010, 03:39:33 PM
Shade, that fight was brutal!  Thanks Pokeytax.  Not one stick attack from my Samurai though.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on November 30, 2010, 03:59:07 PM
I will have the FFT Arena Division finals up soon, right now though my lap top's internal speakers blew and its running incredibly slow :/

hopefully today or tomorrow when i go get a new lap top, the finals will be ready.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 30, 2010, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: "Melancthon"
Not one stick attack from my Samurai though.

They don't have their innate anymore, so might as well Draw Out - Two Hands Scholar is where it's at.

Quote from: "The Damned"
Hmm...I wonder why the graphics for the crystals and the treasures were acting up.

It's a bug with the alternate palettes (you'll see it in the S4 1.3 tourney too), which we tolerate because the palettes are completely amazing (thanks again mav, cold52, and everyone else!)

I will run your match tonight, no worries, but I hope you take your love in the form of instakill Throw Stone because that's what you're getting.

Quote from: "Barren"
:/

That's a pain, thanks again for running the matches - I hate making videos on this computer and it's great to see someone doing testing with commentary.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on November 30, 2010, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
They don't have their innate anymore, so might as well Draw Out - Two Hands Scholar is where it's at.

Well that explains it.  I try to keep up with the changes, but I must have missed that one.  Hmm, might have to switch out Equip Polearm in that case.

EDIT:  Dropped Ignore Height and switched Equip Polearm for MAU.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on November 30, 2010, 05:22:43 PM
Instant aoe was what killed my team, my guys did not have alot of move, so they could not even leave from range of samurai attacks at all.
Btw why did monk not heal himself when he got turn, he has insane amounts pa so he should be able to heal himself for like 150.
My squire was supposed to spam two dragon rods procs, sadly enough AI doesn't know when to wait *sigh*...
Lol ninja tanking :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on November 30, 2010, 07:18:13 PM
LOL!... I should really learn how to upload vids just for this: Did a Scholar all-magic which triggered two Critical Quicks, ally one and enemy one. The Ally goes first, and kills the enemy, then the enemy corpse gets a turn, and runs back! No action... but... lulz... I was expecting him to Phoenix Down himself.

EDIT: Love the team, pokeytax. Was gonna do something similar, but your version is def' better than what I was planning.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on November 30, 2010, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
I will run your match tonight, no worries, but I hope you take your love in the form of instakill Throw Stone because that's what you're getting.

...Always knew a team I made would eventually suck so hard as to die by getting stoned to death. I just didn't think it would be so soon.

I'll lol extra-hard if it's via coal at Colliery.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on November 30, 2010, 10:47:15 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 01, 2010, 10:56:44 AM
Hunh. I just noticed that for some reason Float worked on PX's Ice team, which I like (despite that battle showing how annoyingly slow Lore with a Mime can be), but not on my team. Not that it would have prevented you from "rocking" me given the massive lack of cohesiveness in that incarnation of Future So Light.

As such, I've overhauled it again in attempt to be more "serious"/coherent; my post in the team thread has been updated.

Like I said, though, it was at least an interesting showcase of things and I like "We Will Rock You" as a team even if I hate Monks.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 01, 2010, 12:17:51 PM
Yeah, nice catch on Float, it's that dang bug from S3 again.  Shade, your Monk had no Punch Art due to another bug.

PX's team is pretty sick indeed*, I think Squidgy had a similar lightning-absorb team in his gag slot previously.  Nuking with magic is pretty effective on small maps!

* it beat my monks :(
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 01, 2010, 10:17:26 PM
Otabo, I tried to run your team against PX and The Damned and gave up a couple minutes in both times. Two ice teams? Lore, Polka Polka and Battle Song running simultaneously, are you kidding me?! I'm uploading one against CT5Holy but I'm seriously not doing any more Lore matches until the next patch.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2010, 01:01:13 AM
Lol. I'd say I'd "pray for you", but atheism and all.

Kind of curious why Alia would use Polka Polka against Otabo's "Bloody Devils" and not against your team.  Stupid Alia. I knew I should have named her Layer....

Anyway, may I fight Shade's latest team if you have the time? I think my retooled team might not get its ass kicked as hard.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on December 02, 2010, 01:52:53 AM
ZOMG, you mean my silly Black Magic team beat your insane Terrifying Throw Stone and Dash of Doom team? Why did I replace you! (The Bolt team is back in that slot, btw).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 02, 2010, 11:27:52 PM
Having a lot of upload issues - I actually ran that exact match before you posted, The Damned, and have been trying to put it up since, finally gave up (edit: until now!). Don't expect a lot of match videos from me in the near future. But if you can run ePSXe the cards are there and there's no tomfoolery required, just patch and play!

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 04, 2010, 11:41:50 PM
Arena League III

Code: [Select]
Northern Division

Save Me                        6-0
RAMROD                         4-2
Frozen Fist of the North Star  4-2
Electrifying                   3-3
Femme Fatale                   2-4
TIB                            2-4
Join the Frogs or Die!         0-6

Code: [Select]
  Ba Me PX SA Sh Sq Za
Ba -- L  L  L  L  L  L
Me W  -- L  W  W  L  W
PX W  W  -- L  W  L  W
SA W  L  W  -- L  L  L
Sh W  L  L  W  -- L  L
Sq W  W  W  W  W  -- W
Za W  L  L  W  W  L  --

Save Me
As we already knew, Franz is a terrible ninja monster.
RAMROD
High-powered Draw Out is effective - sure, one of the kills in the quad-kill Chirijiraden was friendly, but it got the job done.
Frozen Fist of the North Star
Pretty wicked ice absorb machine, Cirno got plenty of kills but regen Lore can't keep up with Speed Save Lore. Fun use of Distribute. (Fun fact: when you're charmed, you Distribute to the other team.)
Electrifying
Better damage output, but still only one unit with real stopping power. MA-based Paladin and Thief not getting the job done.
Femme Fatale
Not much luck with Elemental and low damage. Teams are getting better!
TIB
40 Faith Bahamut procs are very underwhelming, PA Save doesn't help flails.
Join the Frogs or Die!
No Frog casts, maybe four Javelin/Octagon whacks with no procs: an AI disaster, as the computer favored Silf over Frog, Ruins over Steal Heart, and Life Drain over Paralyze.

Code: [Select]
Southern Division

We Will Rock You      6-0
Bloody's Devils       5-1
Do Not Disturb        3-3
Xtreme Sandbagging    2-4
Gotwald and the 613's 2-4
World of Ruin         2-4
Future So Light       1-5

Code: [Select]
  CT DV Go Ot Po SS TD
CT -- L  W  L  L  W  W
DV W  -- L  L  L  L  W
Go L  W  -- L  L  W  L
Ot W  W  W  -- L  W  W
Po W  W  W  W  -- W  W
SS L  W  L  L  L  -- W
TD L  L  W  L  L  L  --
We Will Rock You
Different approach than the Lore-Save teams, but similar results.
Bloody's Devils
When the Paladins decided to stick around and guard the nest, indomitable.
Do Not Disturb
Clever Mime usage and an effective Ninja, but Cheer Song didn't have the oomph Battle Song did.
Xtreme Sandbagging
Lowish damage output and much harsher competition than previously.
Gotwald and the 613's
Good healing from Lore, but 40 Fury/base PA Monks are not a threat.
World of Ruin
Not a lot of healing or rez. Lots of elemental equipment and a subsequent lack of damage.
Future So Light
Polka Polka not so hot compared to Nameless Dance - the AI will spam it even after everyone's at 1 PA. Alia the only heavy damage character after hitting 30+ MA from Lores, but rooted and unable to rampage.


Good
Speed Save (significantly outclasses PA Save and MA Save)
Basic Skill (haste/revive/Ultima/utility physical)
Concentrate (aside from Shurikens six feet in diameter, quite a lot of bypassing physical evasion going on)
heavy hitters (between Move-HP Up, potions, and elemental healing, dropping bodies requires dedicated attackers)
Lore (much more effective this time with Save teams and optimized setups
Haste (becoming more mandatory as teams get better)
buff teams (too hard to catch up with on medium/large maps)

Bad
Silf (For some reason the AI loves this, possibly it expects both statuses)
wimps (as in FFT 1.3, the way to win is to score a kill and get your opponent spending turns on Phoenix Down)

Ugly
Iron Boots (very clever, and useful to keep a Scholar from hammering himself with Lore, but what's the point of Protect/Shell on a unit not in the fray?)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 05, 2010, 01:10:18 AM
My frog team was a LOL team anyways, so not a really big deal
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 05, 2010, 01:15:16 AM
Yes, 2nd place in my division. I can make a good team when I try :D (I win tie breaker for beating the team that tied me)

Also, I will be getting rid of the lore user in my team. There's no point in her being there.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on December 06, 2010, 01:03:43 AM
Well, it's nice to see that my recent changes worked somewhat.

What to do...
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 07, 2010, 07:26:11 AM
So, I changed crappy theme team to a theme team that I hope is less crappy, pokeytax. (I wasn't aware that Mike Tyson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson) was a Cancer [or that his middle name is Gerard].)

Quote from: "pokeytax"
Having a lot of upload issues - I actually ran that exact match before you posted, The Damned, and have been trying to put it up since, finally gave up (edit: until now!). Don't expect a lot of match videos from me in the near future. But if you can run ePSXe the cards are there and there's no tomfoolery required, just patch and play!


Oh, by Athena, I am so sorry for making you run such a crappy match.

Quote from: "pokeytax"
Arena League III
Future So Light
Polka Polka not so hot compared to Nameless Dance - the AI will spam it even after everyone's at 1 PA. Alia the only heavy damage character after hitting 30+ MA from Lores, but rooted and unable to rampage.

Unlike philsov, I have pretty crap luck with Nameless Dance. That team sucked anyway, though.

Speaking of which, how the hell did I manage to beat someone? Whose team did I rob this time?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on December 08, 2010, 04:18:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqCw6dLGp3Y
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 08, 2010, 05:49:46 AM
Wow, that was amazingly quick to get posted. Thanks, FFMaster. GG, Skip.

Like I said on the video, I don't see why you thought you'd be hard to understand accent-wise. You sound fine.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on December 08, 2010, 02:48:58 PM
Great fight, really. The accent, if anything, is more of a positive.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on December 08, 2010, 10:14:36 PM
Here is another battle. Sorry for the lag. I think my PC was having a fit of some sort, it's been doing it a lot recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm3vww7FCV4
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 09, 2010, 06:45:37 AM
Lol at the initial image for that video. Wonder who won, hehe.

Thanks again, FFMaster.


I think I might end up having to give Sagat a Santa Outfit (as well) and Vega a better spear (damn lack of Frog procs), but I'll give one or two more battles before I decide.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 11, 2010, 09:31:54 PM
FFT Arena Division Final Match!! Squidgy vs SecondAdvent

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on December 11, 2010, 09:48:01 PM

EDIT: Requesting battle of the Grand Cross teams, just for the lulz.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 13, 2010, 10:49:18 AM
Yep. Nice going squidgy! in the arena division i called, you are a perfect 5-0! your team was never forced to a round 3...very nice job with the two palys (one with speed save and one with PA save), haste 2 loving squire and item bot scholar...very well done
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 13, 2010, 06:07:20 PM


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 13, 2010, 11:39:40 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: LightningHax on December 14, 2010, 12:09:06 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: BlameGod on December 14, 2010, 05:39:25 AM

Thanks for running that match!

Edit:

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 14, 2010, 12:53:59 PM


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 14, 2010, 01:03:06 PM
(Oh, you posted new videos while I was watching those....)

@Barren (first batch of videos): Wow, first time I've ever seen the computer use the (new) Reflect spell.

@pokeytax: As I said on the Youtube video, that ending was absurd. Also, the fact that Grand Cross isn't auto-range is also absurd.

@You both: Thanks, as ever.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 14, 2010, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: "The Damned"
Thanks, as ever.

It's okay, I've got a disease where I enjoy this. But for the benefit of new people and others, let me point out that it's really easy to run matches, easier than the S4 patch - it's patch, download premade card, play. My computer was bottom-of-the-line five years ago, has an integrated video card, and still records fine with HyperCam, so unless you have a laptop with rickets you should be good.

Arena League IV (based on ArenaBETA128 Memory Cards IV)

Earth Division

Code: [Select]
Gotwald and the 613's  5-0
The Jumpmen            3-2
Four Kings of Shadaloo 3-2
Bloody's Devils        2-3
Girls Take Initiative  2-3
World of Ruin          0-5

Code: [Select]
  Go LH Ot Po SS TD
Go -- W  W  W  W  W
LH L  -- W  W  W  L
Ot L  L  -- L  W  W
Po L  L  W  -- W  L
SS L  L  L  L  -- L
TD L  W  L  W  W  --

Gotwald and the 613's
Wow, what a difference 30 Brave makes. It tripled punch damage to put down those pesky floaters.
The Jumpmen
Meaty spears and item abuse carried the day. Took a lot to bring them down.
Four Kings of Shadaloo
Wave Fist dropped some bodies. Claw and Dictator were pretty peripheral, but hey, it beats getting killed and initiating a res loop!
Bloody's Devils
Two slippery Abandon units, but two magic guns isn't exactly turbocharged offense, especially with every odd turn spent Aiming.
Girls Take Initiative
Paine was too into her dance to bother with reviving or Chakra. Talk about MP hogs! But the quad-kill Bahamut was worth it...
World of Ruin
Single-target nukes packed some punch but just got trumped by Summon AoE, instant magic gunfire, and bruising melee.


Heaven Division

Code: [Select]
Counter Cowards               4-1
Standstill                    3-2
RAMROD                        3-2
A Chilly Storm                2-3
Dearly Beloved                2-3
Frozen Fist of the North Star 1-4

Code: [Select]
  Ba BG CT Me PX Sq
Ba -- L  W  L  W  L
BG W  -- L  L  W  L
CT L  W  -- L  W  W
Me W  W  W  -- L  L
PX L  L  L  W  -- L
Sq W  W  L  W  W  --


Counter Cowards
Pretty wicked Geomancy and plenty of Charm. Typical Squidgy team - haste up, never say die, and sandbag like hell if by chance you do.
Standstill
Brilliant team design - root them with Hunting Bow, then snipe away. Sure makes that enhanced range support a lot scarier sounding...
RAMROD
Back, with bigger spears! Still a good mix of AoE damage, AoE healing, and heavy pokes.
A Chilly Storm
Poison Bow proved surprisingly nettlesome, but overall low-octane offense and less unkillable than other teams.
Dearly Beloved
Charm is still a pretty good status ailment even with Arena's duration nerf, but not worth waiting for. Especially when your gunner likes gunning them down in the meantime - not a story to pass on.
Frozen Fist of the North Star
PX, I dunno what to say. I guess you shouldn't have stopped the beatings! Outranged by the other teams.


Good
Crossbows (not overpowering, but nifty and worth using right)
Monks (male PA/HP plus ribbons and bags, pretty lethal)
hitting things (preferable to not hitting things, also to spellcasting like babies)
elemental absorb (really, just a better way to heal than Cure)
fundamentals (rez & Haste)

Bad
Faith-based magic (magical teams just got massacred. we'll do more testing but they aren't keeping up well with the PA/WP arms race)
Faith-based magic (seriously, look at the standings; probably some bad luck involved but jeez)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 14, 2010, 03:18:59 PM
At least my chilly storm team had a couple of wins.....needless to say, my IP man team was probably the best built because of well...IP man
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 14, 2010, 03:36:39 PM
@Barren (second batch of matches): Wow, the Priest was such a dumb-ass in the first match considering she had Esuna. Seriously, what the hell at that and the Petrify hax? I guess Safety Dance is only deadly at a distance, but I still thought the second match was the best, especially given how the third match was essentially 4-on-3 (that poor Priest). That map in the second match is screwed up, though.

@pokeytax: Wow, I feel like an idiot for not noticing you had W/L charts. How the hell did I manage to beat Gotwald's team with Future So Light that first time around?

Also, I'm guessing that much of the problem for Four Kings of Shadaloo came from Javelin being pretty ineffectual and only Sagat having revival; I'm guessing he kept dying first. Hmmmm....

Quote from: "pokeytax"
It's okay, I've got a disease where I enjoy this. But for the benefit of new people and others, let me point out that it's really easy to run matches, easier than the S4 patch - it's patch, download premade card, play. My computer was bottom-of-the-line five years ago, has an integrated video card, and still records fine with HyperCam, so unless you have a laptop with rickets you should be good.

Eh, I'll keep that in mind, but it's totally your fault if something explodes and I get hit by shrapnel.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on December 14, 2010, 06:21:59 PM

Yay, go Counter Cowards! Brave and Faith are for weaklings.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 14, 2010, 08:26:12 PM
Yeah, the female Priests in the second sets of videos acted rather weird/stupidly. Not sure what to say, though in your case, it probably wouldn't have mattered much given she got Stopped for basically the entire fight shortly after her second turn.

Speaking of which, I can't believe it took me until that match to realize where the names for pokeytax's team had come from. I feel like a noob.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 14, 2010, 10:54:26 PM
Deft Priesting for the win. I love how the AI feels the need to pause extra long before those moves, too, carefully weighing the costs of going to all the trouble of spellcasting against the benefits of not dying slowly of poison.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 15, 2010, 11:32:13 AM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Deft Priesting for the win. I love how the AI feels the need to pause extra long before those moves, too, carefully weighing the costs of going to all the trouble of spellcasting against the benefits of not dying slowly of poison.

Yes indeed your team dominated Squidgy's team which too me was very impressive....our match I posted was another close call match.....and I'm glad you and everyone elsde who is watching these matches are enjoying them...lots more to come :)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 16, 2010, 11:00:54 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: BlameGod on December 17, 2010, 02:56:27 AM
Wow!

Two sweet matches and two cool teams which won!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 17, 2010, 10:42:14 AM


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 17, 2010, 04:32:06 PM
Geez, mass extinction event.

Also, further proof that Concentrate needs to die. I wonder how the new Crossbows will fare without it.

Speaking of distance weapons, it's nice to see another team using spell-guns. Although I still don't understand why guns aren't forced two-hands.

Oh well. Thanks again to both of you.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 17, 2010, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: "The Damned"
Geez, mass extinction event.

Speaking of which, if no one takes issue I think I will go through and retire some teams. If your team hasn't been edited in a month and has already seen use in a league, I'm probably going to scrap it from the cards. Feel free to slightly edit or just freshly date your team in the team thread if you want me to keep generating for you! This is not about forcing teams out, just retiring teams that aren't being closely followed.

On a related note, while I will still get everyone represented, I will probably start running fresh B-teams over stale A-teams and suspend the unwritten one-team-per-person rule, so don't be surprised if Squidgy runs eight teams and everyone else goes 2-18.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on December 17, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
I'll be updating mine over break, though entirely new, so feel free to scrap it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 17, 2010, 07:19:22 PM
You can scrap my Frog team if you want to. My two teams are mainly chilly storm and IP man
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: dinosaur on December 17, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Quote from: "The Damned"
Geez, mass extinction event.

Speaking of which, if no one takes issue I think I will go through and retire some teams. If your team hasn't been edited in a month and has already seen use in a league, I'm probably going to scrap it from the cards. Feel free to slightly edit or just freshly date your team in the team thread if you want me to keep generating for you! This is not about forcing teams out, just retiring teams that aren't being closely followed.

On a related note, while I will still get everyone represented, I will probably start running fresh B-teams over stale A-teams and suspend the unwritten one-team-per-person rule, so don't be surprised if Squidgy runs eight teams and everyone else goes 2-18.

OMG! Please please retire my team.

I will create a new one  8)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: BlameGod on December 17, 2010, 07:47:46 PM
I've updated my team but people are still using the old setup, is there something I need to do to inform people that it's updated? I gave up on charm but it was nice to see it work once at least!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 18, 2010, 05:30:02 PM
Quote from: "BlameGod"
Is there something I need to do to inform people that it's updated?

It'll percolate through, people just forget about the newest cards sometimes. All testing is good.

This one was painful to watch, somebody should have sprung for the deluxe AI:
Also painful to watch for different reasons (best compat wreaks havoc):
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 18, 2010, 07:00:21 PM
Hmmm...it would seem that the spreadsheet is mixing up the Blaze Gun and the Glacier Gun given that Fujin was supposed to have the latter (not that it ended up mattering). I swear, those guns will never not be mixed up. (Argh. Emphatic double negative.)

Anyway, the AI was smarter about Preach than I thought it would be. I'm kind of surprised, really. Would have liked to see a Threaten, but I guess I'll have to hope that happens in other matches.

As I said on Youtube, wow, the AI is kinda...weird with Esuna.

Regardless, thanks as usual for running this, pokeytax. GG, BlameGod.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 18, 2010, 07:10:42 PM
Quote from: "The Damned"
Anyway, the AI was smarter about Preach than I thought it would be. I'm kind of surprised, really.

Yeah, me too, though don't get too excited - I know I've seen it keep showering Praise on a unit at 100 Brave.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: BlameGod on December 18, 2010, 10:30:26 PM
Okay i'm ditching that team going for monk destruction, wish me luck!

Edit: Another new team from me, based on mimes... thinking of trying a summoner + mime team too!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on December 19, 2010, 09:30:43 PM
Quote from: "pokeytax"
Speaking of which, if no one takes issue I think I will go through and retire some teams. If your team hasn't been edited in a month and has already seen use in a league, I'm probably going to scrap it from the cards.

Yeah, I haven't had much time to sit down for any serious team building lately.  I'll retire RAMROD, but I would love to see my Performance Artists again.  They started as a joke team, but after seeing that one fight (especially on that tiny map!) I think I might be on to something.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: LightningHax on December 19, 2010, 10:07:35 PM
Quote from: Melancthon
They started as a joke team, but after seeing that one fight (especially on that tiny map!) I think I might be on to something.

Who knows. Mimicking is very strong.

Also, The Jumpmen are retired. I've got a new team just waiting to see some action. I decided to go with 2 medic Bards and 2 EPIC(think 999 damage* epic)Dancers.

*Only in battles that take more than 10 minutes**.

**This happened when fighting Standstill.

Lowered the size, as being that big was... kind of annoying.

~PX
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 19, 2010, 11:03:11 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on December 21, 2010, 01:38:28 PM
Ha, thanks pokeytax.  Might have done a little better if the team wasn't so spread out, but I suppose a good team needs to be able to handle any kind of map.  That one attack I got off was pretty good though!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on December 21, 2010, 06:57:21 PM
Quote from: "Melancthon"
Might have done a little better if the team wasn't so spread out, but I suppose a good team needs to be able to handle any kind of map.

Yeah, these crushing Battle Song-plus-PA^2 teams either become hilariously unstoppable given a few turns to buff up, or just get picked off and rolled over if the map is small or they lose formation. It's pretty hard to balance across all maps.

Memory cards won't be updated until Monday, happy holidays! The spreadsheet is up if you want to DIY though.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 22, 2010, 01:29:00 AM



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on December 27, 2010, 01:24:48 AM

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on December 28, 2010, 02:36:07 AM
Thanks for still running videos, guys.

Not really much else to say at the moment outside of the fact that I gave "Four Kings of Shadaloo" a face lift and you can retire "Future So Light" even more officially when you get back pokeytax.

Well...I suppose I could also try to see if I can do videos too given the (unfortunate) amount of free time I have at present. I just have to hope my computer can take it or whatever and some find something decent to record and/or edit it without destroying what little memory this computer has left.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 10, 2011, 02:24:45 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by BlameGod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOIDQdOjQnM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ukSzVKH_Jw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERKbFbeklTo
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 10, 2011, 02:25:36 PM
If anyone wants me to do an FFT Arena Exhibition Match for them, please PM me and tell me who you want to face
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: BlameGod on January 10, 2011, 05:17:40 PM
Awesome!, thanks Barren.

Definite reminder of how badly bard/mimic teams will get pwned on smaller maps!

That was definitely enough testing to know I have to make some changes.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 10, 2011, 07:05:15 PM
Well to be fair your strategy wasn't bad, i just don't necessarily agree with the iron boots, sure it grans protect/shell but also don't move. if a knight has sing, he should also contribute damage not just sit back like a free target. but that's just me
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 10, 2011, 10:24:35 PM
Thanks for still doing these, Barren. I've a few matches I'd like to see, but like you said, I'll PM you.

I'm guessing you're still using version 129, though, right? Or it is just that no one else has updated their teams after 130 came out because of the BETA tournament preparations? I'm merely asking because I noted that Shade's Monk, at least, still has the dread Concentrate; then again, his Ninja still has PA Save, so....

Regardless, I have to say that I'm rather shocked at how much the Earth Absorb team was healing for. I guess that's Best compat. for you.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on January 11, 2011, 10:52:14 PM
I'm guessing you're still using version 129, though, right? Or it is just that no one else has updated their teams after 130 came out because of the BETA tournament preparations?

I've been slacking (a bloo bloo bloo have to recopy all the teams to the new spreadsheet bloo bloo). Everyone's tourney teams are sealed so I think we're waiting for that anyway.

On that note I got caught up in ASM stuff, so I'm disclaiming my tourney slot, it's up for grabs, first post to this thread calling dibs gets it. If no one else claims it today or tomorrow, I will certainly submit a tough team, I'm not going to screw up the tourney! I just figure it's only fair to give someone else a shot first.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on January 11, 2011, 11:36:40 PM
i'll take that slot, just gimme a bit to throw together a team
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 12, 2011, 12:38:39 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by The Damned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1b0zM9NsGk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDXvrZ3UrrY
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on January 12, 2011, 05:22:57 PM
Made one new team and made academy team comeback to the action.

New one is remake of mine DOOOOOOOOM ARCHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 12, 2011, 11:10:29 PM
Like I said on Youtube, thanks for running these Barren.


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 12, 2011, 11:35:35 PM
Anytime :) I'm glad you enjoyed those matches....I was surprised that you did win considering that the mimic daravon was a pretty low chance of hitting. still the strategy worked great!! Good stuff Damned, once again i'm glad you enjoyed them and thank you for watching them :)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on January 13, 2011, 12:20:16 AM
100% Don't Move is truly painful to see. If Berserkers came back, I would bet anything they would want Don't Move protection. Seeing this, I wonder how well Magic teams + 100% Faith hitting weapon would go...
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 13, 2011, 03:33:33 AM
Probably not that powerful unless they using Summon magic or spells that already had a good chance of hitting since 100% Faith doesn't negate M-EV or make everything have a 100% chance to hit or be fatal.

Anyway, those videos showed that Glacier Gun and Blaze Gun are mixed up on the spreadsheet are something like how Tornado and Quake were (are?). Is there a way to ensure that we get the spell-gun we wanted if we send in a team with one?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on January 13, 2011, 04:03:06 AM
We'll find out soon, FFM. :D

Yikes, what a comeback! The first Mimic Daravon (the one that slept that one archer for most of the fight) was key for letting you stabilize, Damned. Otherwise, those extra shots would've helped a lot with whittling your units down.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on January 13, 2011, 05:30:33 AM
Quote
Anyway, those videos showed that Glacier Gun and Blaze Gun are mixed up on the spreadsheet are something like how Tornado and Quake were (are?). Is there a way to ensure that we get the spell-gun we wanted if we send in a team with one?

Don't worry, if something funny appears, I will fix it. I'm sure I fixed the Gun and Tornado/Quake problems in my version of the spreadsheet though.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 16, 2011, 11:23:30 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by PX_TimeForDeath

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qldy-lw4c


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trJpvDdIbmE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaccbqS8WUg
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 17, 2011, 03:14:19 AM
I commented on the videos already on Youtube, but I figure I might as well (generically) comment here as well given that I can also through you a head-ups that I'll be PMing you in about an hour or two.

Heads-up: I'll be PMing you in about an hour or two.

Beyond that, my, Iron Boots looks like its the newest fashion of the updated teams. Not what I was expecting considering what we both lost and gained. I guess people really like Slow Dancing.

As ever, thanks for running these.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 18, 2011, 12:42:03 AM
I guess I'll make me request again here. I'd like to see my new team against... any 3 teams.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: dinosaur on January 18, 2011, 08:33:36 AM
I guess I'll make me request again here. I'd like to see my new team against... any 3 teams.

Yes me too!

I want to challenge PX for sure. SO when I win I can gloat about it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 18, 2011, 05:03:04 PM
I guess I'll make me request again here. I'd like to see my new team against... any 3 teams.
last time i check the lastest updated teams were on 12/27...is there a way i can get the newest teams without having to wait for team submissions to be updated? please let me if you do and i can fulfill your request right this time
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on January 18, 2011, 08:49:18 PM
If you look in the team submissions thread, various people have made updates to their team after 12/27. Everyone has posted dates when they made their last update, so just go with that.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: dinosaur on January 18, 2011, 09:17:06 PM
I am referring to my team I made for the Arena Tourny
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 19, 2011, 07:47:53 PM
I'd also like a test run with my new team. Any random 3 teams will do.

Oh, by the way, I'm also offering to help run exhibition matches now that Season 4 is pretty much over. Whether or not I'll be doing any commentary hasn't been decided yet, though. Just let me know.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 19, 2011, 09:42:16 PM
That would be great Otabo...I could use some help with the exhibition mathces, you dont have to do commentary if you dont want to. It is greatly appreciated :) If you want to get started, ill send you PX's request and ill do your request and the Damned's request tonight
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on January 19, 2011, 10:05:50 PM
Sorry about the delay guys, some cards are up. We had a power outage and I can no longer post from work, so it might be a little longer between updates, but it won't take a month next time.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 19, 2011, 10:19:04 PM
Well glad to hear everything is okay pokeytax, dont worry about it. I've been doing exhibition matches while you were gone, and now Otabo has volunteered to help out :)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 19, 2011, 11:42:28 PM
Yeah, I'll be uploading on my own channel, too. What I'll do is make a separate playlist for just the exhibition matches and place it on my front channel page for easy access.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 19, 2011, 11:46:08 PM
Sounds good :) thanks again for helping out

For everyone who wants to see their teams in action against the opponents of your choosing, please contact me or otabo and we'll upload your matches as soon as we can
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 19, 2011, 11:54:07 PM
Not to worry, pokeytax. Rather understandable being busy/away considering what time you took off.

We'll find out soon, FFM. :D

Yikes, what a comeback! The first Mimic Daravon (the one that slept that one archer for most of the fight) was key for letting you stabilize, Damned. Otherwise, those extra shots would've helped a lot with whittling your units down.

Forgot to comment on this.

Yeah, I would have easily died if not for that first Mimic Daravon (and your units apparently not having anyway to wake people up) due to how overpowering Concentrate is.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 20, 2011, 01:39:38 AM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by The Damned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjYKsyOwQBg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuFzgsbi8d4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC3ATfnNxJI
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 20, 2011, 03:42:05 AM
Thank you for running those matches with that horrible, horrible team. Man, Death sucks so very much. Why the hell did the computer refuse to use Faith + Death so many teams outside of the one match where it didn't matter?

I also find it funny that difficult as it is to get Reflect now (down to Carbunkle not even causing it any more and thus being using), Reflect, like a lot of magic, kind of sucks now rather being overpowering. Fourth level Black Magic doesn't give a damn about it (though Flare and Holy do still for some reason). Summon Magic has never given a damn about it. The only Lore spells that people tend to use don't give a damn about it. Only Yin-Yang Magic and Time Magic kind of give a damn about it, but Slow 2 doesn't really give a damn about it and it's not like anyone uses Time Magic for damage given how inferior the Demi spells (and Death) are to Lich.

Damn, Death really sucks. Really, really sucks.

Anyway, thank you again. We let's just pretend that team never happened.

I just realized why my teams suck even more than usual: Trying to use high Faith when magic sucks just makes me still ineffectual against low-Faith teams and more likely to get my ass-kicked by the teams using Lore.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 20, 2011, 10:44:47 AM
Anytime Damned......too bad this team you wanted to try didnt work too well for you.....the first match though was ridiculously long that there want enough damage being done to pokeytax's units because they have such freaking high defense! maybe somehow we should have a anti-protect/shell spell?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 20, 2011, 11:50:25 AM
No problem. As I said on Youtube, I was expecting it to fail. Not as horribly, perhaps, but I expected it to fail. The next team I give you to (one of) you will be more hopeful (I hope, haha).

It seems like even with Faith, Death needs to die. Strange Aeons and such.

As for an anti-Protect/Shell spell, there's no need; Dispel Magic already exists, just that no one uses it. The closest to an "anti-Shell" spell that gets used is Lich and anti-Protect is rather easy to overpower since most physical techniques take no MP. Additionally, Pokeytax's team has permanent version of it, so only technique that would work would be Steal Accessory.

Besides, the AI is dumb enough about use Protect and Shell even when it should anyway. There's no real reason to punish them for it further.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 20, 2011, 12:01:47 PM
True, i suppose there's no need for debuff spells since there's already one in Dispel
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 21, 2011, 03:20:36 AM
Exhibition matches as requested by PX.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on January 21, 2011, 04:25:04 AM
[spoiler="PX vs. Skip Sandwich]
...wow, was that ever the most unlucky match possible for me
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 21, 2011, 08:38:55 AM
PMing you with the newest team, Barren.

With regards to the Otabo videos, what the hell is with people using dual Iron Boots now? No matter, their tears shall flow soon enough if all goes according to plan.



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 21, 2011, 04:02:17 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by Otabo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_qV_QKEuA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhVmjWM1ZuM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSEcouwOXuI
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 23, 2011, 02:12:17 AM
Hunh. I thought I had commented on these already.



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 23, 2011, 10:11:14 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by LightningHax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzvDVF8lWIc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McecxOND9ZQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfWEgTgqBw8
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 24, 2011, 04:46:23 AM
Thank you for the videos as always, Barren. I'm guessing that LightningHax's request happened before or the same day as I retired that shitty Death-based team he fought, right? That's only reason why I think they would be fighting--not that that was much of a match; the rain just added insult to injury.

Oh well, I suppose even that horrible display wasn't entirely pointless since it just reinforces that Death does indeed suck, Reflect isn't nearly as useful as it was before despite being arguably more difficult to get now and compatibility needing to be toned down. Also shows why I probably won't bother using high faith teams for a while unless I'm testing something since I don't want to spam Lore or Raise 2 or Haste or Lich, i.e. the only really useful spells.

Semi-bitching aside, I enjoyed Shade's match and I suppose PX's match was equally informative too. I still don't understand why people are whoring dual Iron Boots of all a sudden; the only team that it's made sense on so far has been Pokeytax's "Luzhin Defense" team.

*shrug*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on January 24, 2011, 05:17:46 AM
Why do you guys like my academy team instead of True Doom Archers?

Well anyway I request that true doom archers fights againts guys with a death wish! I mean everyone!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on January 24, 2011, 05:32:36 AM
I would like to request some more matches featuring Team Evil Sword please.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 24, 2011, 06:54:07 AM
I can hook you up with some matches probably on Tuesday if you want, Skip.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 24, 2011, 11:16:52 AM
Why do you guys like my academy team instead of True Doom Archers?

Well anyway I request that true doom archers fights againts guys with a death wish! I mean everyone!
i can put up your archer team if you want me to shade, just pm me on who you want to face
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on January 24, 2011, 11:50:13 AM
Wow I realised how many of theam are something to do with dancing, singing, or lore magic(meaning all hitting spells).
I also realised there is so many teams with elemental absorbing.
I also realised there is no tanky team that doesn't have sing ,dance, lore.
I realised how many counter flood there is, it's like every second team.
I realised how many monks is there, and it seems weird to use them unless you want status protection, since squire can do damage better.
Iron boot fetish is weird.

Just saying that we have little too much the same.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 24, 2011, 12:15:25 PM
Why don't you fight CT5Holy's Standstill team or something? (Provided that he's taken into the account the fact that two of his units can no longer have Concentrate.)

That team doesn't fall into any one of the categories you seem to take issue with.

I realised how many monks is there, and it seems weird to use them unless you want status protection, since squire can do damage better.

Sigh.

I know I'll probably regret asking this, but how is this possible when Monks have Innate Martial Arts and 3 more PA even before that? (Rhetorical, but humor me if you will.)

Just saying that we have little too much the same.

I'm pretty sure everyone realizes that. It's pretty inevitable given what's effective is effective.

Still better than Innate Two Sword Ninja and the like being on literally every other team.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 24, 2011, 03:42:22 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by The Damned

Iron Boots Edition!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Ehp4XS5jc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ8yJXWUPTc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJW9M11wKQI
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Melancthon on January 24, 2011, 04:14:26 PM
Almost hit the damage cap right there!  So close!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on January 24, 2011, 04:35:49 PM
Quote
Why don't you fight CT5Holy's Standstill team or something? (Provided that he's taken into the account the fact that two of his units can no longer have Concentrate.)

Well actually I totally missed Standstill team.


Quote
Sigh.

I know I'll probably regret asking this, but how is this possible when Monks have Innate Martial Arts and 3 more PA even before that? (Rhetorical, but humor me if you will.)

Well yeah I really do like more the shield, more move, mp and hp over monk's(comparing both of them with max pa(sq 17 pa, mk 17)) ribbon, monk does have does have martial arts as an innate, but I would still use some other jobs to use martial arts with something else, usefull as ribbon is. That is just me.

Quote
I'm pretty sure everyone realizes that. It's pretty inevitable given what's effective is effective.

You make everyone sound that they ONLY want to win, I can only hope that is not the case.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 25, 2011, 12:40:39 AM
Wow, I have shit luck, but I actually really like that "Oil Ocean" team and this time I believe it actually has potential unlike the Zalera's Wings team. Thanks Barren. I think I know how to fit and it's need of a massive overhaul, at least equip-wise; it seems like having range and self-healing actually worked against me, which is rather a pleasant surprise since I wasn't really too keen on doing yet another "absorb" team "just because".


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on January 25, 2011, 01:58:57 AM
Why don't you fight CT5Holy's Standstill team or something? (Provided that he's taken into the account the fact that two of his units can no longer have Concentrate.)
Yeah, I've made adjustments. I love that team, will definitely try to keep it updated =P

Really neat idea on the Short Edge + Flame Whip combo, Damned.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on January 25, 2011, 02:39:15 AM
GG The Damned. Definitely a problem with Iron Boots - my team can't close the deal. Torn between guilt over inflicting two horrible grinding matches on Barren and love for absurd team design... maybe I will lose the dancers, the irony of having Dance and Iron Boots on different units isn't worth an extra five minutes per match.

Something is definitely wrong with those Breaks though.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 25, 2011, 03:19:57 AM
well both of the matches pokeytax were expected to be long and slow considering that your team was built for defense and not much offense besides jump. i know the matches were rather awkward but honestly, in all fairness, i did choose a better map for jump to be show cased. and im not a big fan of iron boots because it intends to be more of a bane on the user than an advantage...but that's just me
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 25, 2011, 06:05:45 AM
Okay, so "Oil Ocean" has been updated again. I saw why it was Robotnik was 140 JP over, Barren. I miscounted Equip Shield as 50 JP instead of 200 JP in Robotnik's case. Thanks for pointing that out before since I seriously thought you had miscounted until I got finished changing it.


@CT5Holy: Thanks. I realized too late that I should have probably gotten rid of Twist Headbands, though, given that Flails/Maces don't give a damn about them.

@pokeytax: My update status is a lot more clear now. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I believe that you should stick with Slow Dance.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 25, 2011, 12:09:43 PM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by Shade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXk1z63S2mM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmI6MOomDBU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AVQv7nneE0
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 25, 2011, 07:21:55 PM
For the record, those videos are why people are more interested in your Academy team, Shade.

(And, seriously, PX's dual Iron Boots team needs some way to revive. I'm surprised he doesn't have Nameless Song on at least one Knight or that male Mimes for that matter.)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 26, 2011, 12:27:58 AM
Okay, enough of the stupid mime/paladin team. I was just testing to see how powerful mimes + Life Song was going to be (It failed)

Anyways, requesting my *finally* updated Ice team vs 3 more random people.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 26, 2011, 12:59:27 AM
Well Life Song with two Mimes is pretty obnoxious. The "catch" to that is that Mimes have to be, you know, alive, and your Mimes--I guess one of them was named Black Cat for a reason--just tended to die and then be unable to be revived.  I mean, Life Song with two Mimes enabled Melancthon's circus-themed team to kick my ass more horribly than it needed to since otherwise his Mimes would have died. That AND he had Revive back-up (on a mobile unit) just in case.

Oh, and since I forgot to say it above, thanks again, Barren.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 26, 2011, 01:14:57 AM
I'm glad everyone is enjoying the videos i have been putting up as of late. its good to see how teams turn out.

And for Iron Boots.....we all now know its not for everyone
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 26, 2011, 01:23:36 AM

Anyways, requesting my *finally* updated Ice team vs 3 more random people.

EDIT: I'll get yours and Skip's done tomorrow when I get home.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on January 26, 2011, 03:27:01 AM
For the record, those videos are why people are more interested in your Academy team, Shade.


So people don't kike my team, because of my ice weakness, last map being awful place to start, and that I can take tanky units down without abusing speed save and yell, and the fact that I shoulda had blaze gun instead of blast gun(how did I make a that big of a mistake).

I am not really sure how is academy team so intresting, it's just croup of squires that have high ma or pa stats combined with right skillset(punch art for males and for females draw out).

I am just intrested how you see my squire test team better then the Doom archers.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 26, 2011, 04:30:56 AM
No, it's because Archers just generally still kind of boring to watch and your Academy team has done better thus far. Only reason Standstill was interesting to watch was because it actually made good use out of the otherwise mediocre Don't Move proc. Four Squires is at least more entertaining to watch and novel at present, IMO, since Ultima isn't automatically a death sentence on everything anymore and Squires have legitimate great stats now.

(Also, the 1.3 Tournaments have statistically had a hell of a lot more Archers compared to Squires.)

Also, you have Yell and the Ice weakness and disadvantageous maps are things that can always easily bite you in the ass, so I don't see what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 26, 2011, 07:13:18 PM
Exhibition matches as requested by Skip.



EDIT: Exhibition matches as requested by PX.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on January 26, 2011, 08:15:06 PM
thanks Otabo!



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on January 26, 2011, 10:34:52 PM
Cards are finally up to date, the second set has the most recent non-tourney vs. non-tourney. Thanks to Barren and Otabo for running plenty of matches!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 27, 2011, 03:06:56 AM
Thanks, pokeytax. Thanks, Otabo.



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on January 27, 2011, 03:53:33 AM
Previous post updated with PX's matches.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 27, 2011, 05:21:14 AM
In that fight against Barren, how the hell did the monk and ninja have 100% attacks????
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on January 27, 2011, 05:37:52 AM
Weirdly seemed to only happen against the Knight from the front. Hmmm....

Anyway, between those matches and Gotwald's Earth team, I'm rather tempted to make an anti-Monk team.



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on January 27, 2011, 06:03:35 AM
@The Damned
actually I have two different SaGa Frontier theme teams in the works right now

the first would be Emila and the Gradius members (Roufas, Annie and Liza)

the second is composed of Blue, Dr. Nukasan, Gen and Mesarthim, and would be much more magic heavy.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on January 27, 2011, 08:33:38 AM
Yay!!! Team IP lives!!!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on January 27, 2011, 07:28:01 PM
I shall Request my two new teams to get figthing! Holy Team and Dark Hearts!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 27, 2011, 08:36:57 PM
@ Damned

For the first fight, the units who were charmed had no way of hurting my team. :D

And that third battle, Fire > Ice Shield
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on February 02, 2011, 02:34:40 AM
Exhibition matches as requested by Shade. I didn't do both teams of yours, Shade. Just the Holy Team.


Note: For those who want teams tested in the future, if there aren't palettes listed for your team, they'll be given two random palettes. So if you want specific colors, include the palettes you want.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on February 02, 2011, 03:10:28 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on February 02, 2011, 03:37:39 AM
Well the knights are very strongly build, expect they have to be sandbagging the other two bitches(dammit).


I can't wait for My lich spamming team(we might be seeing 6 liches in row)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on February 02, 2011, 04:50:39 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Kaz on February 02, 2011, 08:23:34 AM
requesting an opponent or two for my boom boom volleyballahs
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on February 02, 2011, 11:29:52 AM
Hmmm...I kind of wanted to make a Wind-based team, but between Tornado blowing and Magic Ring being a popular accessory, it doesn't seem worth it.




Maybe I'll make a dance team given that I was criticizing Celdia about it. It would only be fair. (Hmm...I hope FFMaster is okay given the state of Australia.)

@ Damned

For the first fight, the units who were charmed had no way of hurting my team. :D

Not really true. The Knight could have used Dia on any one of your other units and instead choose to try to Dia himself while still Charmed (and miss). It wouldn't have really changed anything, but it was still annoying.

Quote
And that third battle, Fire > Ice Shield.

I see. I suppose I just automatically assume that everyone covers their weaknesses whenever they use an elemental shield.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on February 02, 2011, 07:35:58 PM
Not sure how you would cover weakness without using another absorb equipment, especially not having elemental band in arena anymore.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on February 02, 2011, 08:34:39 PM
requesting an opponent or two for my boom boom volleyballahs


I can hook you up probably on Thursday.

EDIT: Kaz, both of your monks are 200 over the JP limit.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Kaz on February 03, 2011, 11:00:44 PM
sorry bout that, i always screw up somehow.. drop sleep on both of em and it should be fine - thanks
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: LightningHax on February 05, 2011, 12:02:10 AM
If you have time, could you please do a few matches for my Rage Quit Team?

I wanna see just how bad Salty Rage is.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on February 05, 2011, 12:14:27 AM
I can do it LightningHax...i havent done any vids in a while
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on February 05, 2011, 02:12:15 AM
FFT Arena Exhibition Matches requested by LightningHax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAJqMtmwK28


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQJxlMqw0QU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a37Dv0bXN2I
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pride on February 05, 2011, 04:14:14 AM
I would like to request a few matches with Dance, Allure! Dance! when Pokeytax updates the memory cards.

Thank you Barren and Otabo for keeping a steady flow of matches coming in.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on February 05, 2011, 04:23:54 AM
Rage quit indeed.




Not sure how you would cover weakness without using another absorb equipment, especially not having elemental band in arena anymore.

You say that like using another absorb equipment is a bad thing. Also, five of the eight elements (fire not being one of them) can be straight up canceled by equipment, so it's not like it always has to be absorbed to cover it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Kaz on February 05, 2011, 07:40:05 AM
yah. not sure what possesed me to use the cursed rings but it sounded good at the time..... eheheh :>
ill make a better death sentence/status whore team when im somewhat rational.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on February 05, 2011, 10:17:34 AM
Yes...I was impressed with the pressure that DomieV's team brings with his 3x sing and 3x dance combo...not to mention the counter flood was a nice touch as well
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on February 05, 2011, 03:43:42 PM


You say that like using another absorb equipment is a bad thing. Also, five of the eight elements (fire not being one of them) can be straight up canceled by equipment, so it's not like it always has to be absorbed to cover it.

It's not bad it's just kind hard with more then one elemental equipment.

I update Holy team by changing squires to bards that have iron boots and battle song.

So I am requesting for both of my newer teams(holy team, dark hearts).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on February 05, 2011, 04:14:11 PM
Odd, in LightningHax vs DomieV, one of DomieV's mimes wasn't mimicking stuff for a while towards the latter half of the match. Then he started to mimic stuff again, then stopped mimicking again. Weird. Anyone know why this happens? I've seen it a few times on my own, too, and maybe it's been seen on some other vids? Maybe from Pride's team in the Beta Tourney?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on February 05, 2011, 04:38:53 PM
Yeah, I've seen it happen too. I'm not sure what causes it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on February 05, 2011, 07:15:29 PM
Just saw my match with LightningHax....strange indeed that one of my mimes didnt mimic but overall, im pleased to have a made a good team...my concept behind that was 3x dance and 3x sing....I was hoping that next chance anyone gets I would like my song and dance team to face any 3 teams.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on February 05, 2011, 07:53:42 PM
I'm not sure what caused that bug, but I think it has something to do with the positioning of the mimes.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on February 05, 2011, 08:47:38 PM
I'm not sure what caused that bug, but I think it has something to do with the positioning of the mimes.
Yea that could be it.....well maybe its buggy on some maps...entrance to death city at least is one of them so far
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on February 05, 2011, 08:50:16 PM
That wouldn't surprise me, since the map is unused for battles. Although mechanically speaking, I don't see -why-, when everything else works right. I think this is worth looking into, if only for future reference's sake.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Otabo on February 07, 2011, 04:55:17 PM
Sorry for the delay in requests, but I'll try to get some done during this week - depending on how I feel.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on June 15, 2011, 10:23:06 PM
Played around with Arena ALL day today, and am going to put up some vids using the most recent patch (129b) of a team that I concocted up tomorrow. This place needs to come alive again, and I'm ready to get to work so a S6 can occur before the summer's over :D

Yep, ciao for now \o
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on June 16, 2011, 09:42:37 PM
Voila...My First FFT Arena Team version BETA 129b (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlE0e5ID2FQ&fmt=18)

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on June 16, 2011, 10:58:25 PM
Hopefully when season 5 finishes we can start another ARENA tournament....I don't mind helping out anyway I can
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on June 16, 2011, 11:06:43 PM
Voila...My First FFT Arena Team version BETA 129b (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlE0e5ID2FQ&fmt=18)



Wiz wanna battle mine teams?
Cause I am known for my teams badassery and making weirdest combos ever(speed saving archer+ haste pretty much my idead before 3rd 1.3 season(yell was supposed to in that one)), example academy team is only squire only team, showing the cababilities of this job after it was buffed(large range of equipment, and easier to get stats(meaning that monk may have higher PA without equipment, but squires with their equipment can over come them).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on June 17, 2011, 08:25:56 PM
Wiz wanna battle mine teams?
Cause I am known for my teams badassery and making weirdest combos ever(speed saving archer+ haste pretty much my idead before 3rd 1.3 season(yell was supposed to in that one)), example academy team is only squire only team, showing the cababilities of this job after it was buffed(large range of equipment, and easier to get stats(meaning that monk may have higher PA without equipment, but squires with their equipment can over come them).

Your team pitted against mine Shade? And which teams and player slot do you prefer (player 1 - player 2)?

Keep in mind, that vid wasn't an exhibition one, just me showing what I've learned from playing in the Arena.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on June 17, 2011, 09:11:18 PM
Your team pitted against mine Shade? And which teams and player slot do you prefer (player 1 - player 2)?

Keep in mind, that vid wasn't an exhibition one, just me showing what I've learned from playing in the Arena.

Hey these videos are made for 2 things testing and having fun, and I am all in for both.
Also you decide what teams, you can do 1 or all. The Choice is yours!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on June 17, 2011, 09:26:20 PM
I realize that, but keep in mind 130's being worked on and it's not the best of ideas to make a plethora of vids for an outdated version of the patch =p

I still duke it out w/ your teams, but I'm not making videos doing so =P

btw, late congrats on getting to the 1k mark for your post count

>_>
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on June 24, 2011, 12:42:21 PM
Send in your teams to fight! I'll be recording as many as I can.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on June 24, 2011, 01:18:53 PM
Well I will be going with my classy ones Academy Team and Holy Team.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on June 24, 2011, 03:44:24 PM
I put a Stone Gun on my Monk "4 teh lulz". I'll submit a real unit for the team soon. EDIT: K, now he's kinda normal.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on June 27, 2011, 06:26:35 AM
Quickening isn't being cast. Hmm, happens when I remove Steal Heart from a unit with only those two skills, and then Quickening works when I relearn Steal Heart... tried again with only Quickening, and no using it.

What do?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on June 27, 2011, 06:58:48 AM
I'm not sure about Quickening. We have already seen odd behaviour from units that have it.

Anyway, going to get a video up soon, now that we have 2 teams. CT5, I still need you to fix unit 3.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on June 27, 2011, 04:11:13 PM
Ah, sorry, was out for most of yesterday. Fixed, sent PM, etc.

Yeah, Quickening is weird. I tried it with another unit (albeit briefly), and he didn't use it at all. He might've had Steal Heart in addition to Quickening though, dunno if that would change things.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on June 27, 2011, 10:48:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv_5Y8Lw1_I



For those who want to submit a new team, just post in team submissions.

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Wg5xZ_Qfw
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on June 28, 2011, 04:10:29 AM
(Does Float give the unit a Wind weakness in ARENA given that it was bundled with the Oil fix? I don't think it does, but I can't remember.)

Forgive me, but I chose to PM you the team I (finally) finished given that I didn't want to make a new section for myself in the Team Submission thread and I'm not sure how busy pokeytax is right now to update it. So all I'd be doing is editing something that might not be seen given that I think PX is busy as well, aeroGP isn't a mod here anymore and you're obviously still kinda busy. Still, I guess I should add there anyway now I have sent it in, though....

Meh. I'll wait until after my first match or two since I have it saved elsewhere.

Regardless, thanks for updating things and getting out these videos quickly. I commented on Youtube, but the character limit there means that it's easier to comment further here, especially since there's spoiler tags.



Hmmm...I wonder if this team will actually do decently considering the arguably crappy item I'm trying to use. Although, it's rather arguable that even if I manage to win, the item is still "crappy" or, less rudely, has one too many disadvantages at present.

Oh well. We'll see.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on June 28, 2011, 10:43:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93BrsihpvNk
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: pokeytax on June 28, 2011, 10:47:49 PM
I'm sadly not doing cards, yeah, my computing situation makes it very cumbersome. But it's probably still a good idea to have a central submissions thread.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on June 28, 2011, 11:29:53 PM
My new team is just a random combo i came up with anyways, if it looks terrible (and i think it might be) ill make some definite changes to the squad...for now i'm hoping that it will serve me well
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on June 29, 2011, 01:08:45 AM
(Okay, so I'm pretty sure that Float doesn't add a Wind weakness in ARENA. Pretty sure....)

My, that was quick. As I said on Youtube, that was actually much closer than I thought it would be considering how scary I see CT5Holy's Katana-Rama!--heh--team as. Thanks for doing it so quickly and GG again CT5Holy.

That team, now called "Namastaydead", has been added to my post in the team submission thread with three slight tweaks, pretty much all to Rajnish though I also gave Shri Blind even though I'm still kinda...wary of that.

Speaking of Rajnish, though, I should point out that the Master List still says that Paladins still have that abysmal Jump of 2, which is the only reason he had Jump +1 in the first place, really. Everything else on the list looks like it's accurate though AFAIK.

I'm sadly not doing cards, yeah, my computing situation makes it very cumbersome. But it's probably still a good idea to have a central submissions thread.

Yeah, I remember you saying something about that earlier. It's unfortunate, but it is what is.

...Of course, FFMaster (or whomever) could remedy that by giving me power. Phenomenal cosmic power.

I mean, I bitch at him enough to be co-partner as it is. Just see above. And it's not like I have anything but a maddening amount of free time at the moment.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on June 29, 2011, 03:44:55 AM
Yikes, got very lucky with those ~35% shots near the end. You likely would've had it otherwise. =/
Like FFM said, excellent team design Damned. Was quite cool, haha. Good fight :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on June 29, 2011, 10:37:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqrfbVnfvXs
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on June 29, 2011, 11:27:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v5NRjUUKI0
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on July 15, 2011, 03:08:48 AM
Especially since Conc's removal, I feel that Geomancy is a bit too good. Wasn't it suggested to be subject to M-Evade? Try runnin' your teams vs my Faithless Cowards...

I think it's been shown the AI's so stupid with Quickening, that it's not too OP... especially with few speed-based damage skills.

EDIT: Hunting Bow nerf plz... dunno if it's OP, but it's really annoying, and blatantly the only crossbow to use in comparison to the others.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 15, 2011, 07:15:38 AM
Newbie here would like to see how his team does against anybody willing to fight him.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 21, 2011, 07:44:21 PM
FFM's busy atm, and I want to see your guys' teams (those who haven't been in the spotlight), so I'll be making some matches and putting them up momentarily :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 22, 2011, 04:14:55 AM
I was sick when making these, so pardon me if I don't sound too good XD

Match 1 Set 1 Malroth vs Teddirayo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVerarP-EUY&fmt=18)

Match 2 Set 1 Dol (Team Masochism) vs zxpr0jk (Team Undeath) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scw0iWhpAnk&fmt=18)

Match 3 Set 1 Dol (Team Blows) vs Dol (Team Healing Death) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKTY8ZMxqL0&fmt=18)

Match 4 Set 1 Truelight vs Aquilae (Team Shish Kabob) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul-yBsAlfkU&fmt=18)

Match 5 Set 1 LightningHax vs Barren (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5vIOcXZcI&fmt=18)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: LightningHax on July 22, 2011, 05:58:29 AM
Wiz, I think you forgot something...

Meow.


I kind of have a new team. :P
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 22, 2011, 06:06:24 AM
Oh lol! the spreadsheet has your old team listed and I named it the same thing, so it registered that instead of your new one XD

I'll get to that "later today" since it's 7/22 for me today <_<
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on July 22, 2011, 06:43:35 AM
Some interesting teams there. Those hunting bows can cause a lot of trouble, keeping the healer in a continuous Esuna loop.

Didn't expect Flare to be so devastating, 450 damage is... damn strong. That MP gets burned out so quickly though, and if you can't one-shot the enemy, it means a lot of bad things. Those Wizards were already out of MP after 2 casts. So you pick durability or MP.

Overall, I like the extra range on the spells. Those mages can be really hard to get to now, especially when Paladins/Lancers/Thieves/whatever gets in the way. I'm actually thinking of running Teleport and a ranged weapon on some units now... it will be interesting whether average Faith goes down to combat them or Faith to go up to kill them back.

Another note - I am really disliking how Mimes are currently being used. They have been used as singbots/dancebots exclusively, and people will run 2 or none. I actually think running just one Mime with a proper team around it would be better. Mime can theoretically hit a single opponent 4 times per round. Mime is quite durable with Unyielding as well, and may also work for some tanking, with a bit of healing support (Moogle is probably the one I'm looking at). I may try to throw something that works once I have the time.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on July 22, 2011, 06:58:52 AM
Oh hey, Mimes. That'll be something to build around.
Sing/dancebot Mimes are just really easy, so =P.

Oh, Wiz, I have a new team that has yet to be on display, if you don't mind. It's Anti-Melee? in the team submissions thread.

Neat idea on the Hunting Bow + Sing/Dance. I also liked the Two Swords Murasame Samurai.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 22, 2011, 10:22:35 PM
Alright, here's my 2nd set of Matches :)

Match 1 Set 2 Barren (Big Assault) vs Angelus (Angelic) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohpzszu8N5Q&fmt=18)

Match 2 Set 2 DomieV (Song and Dance) vs Vigilanti (Right Here) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW5KXXTwPNQ&fmt=18)

Match 3 Set 2 zxpr0jk (Undeath) vs LightningHax (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQMEWw5vdSE&fmt=18)

Someone else take command from here, because I'm going to work on my own stuff :D

Edit: I agree on keeping the spell ranges because mages need all the buffs they can get. And shoot, I forgot to show off your new team CT5, I'll do that tomorrow as an exception!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 22, 2011, 11:44:39 PM
I can do some arena videos after this weekend for you Wiz while you do something else so I guess I'm back in business
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on July 23, 2011, 07:59:00 AM
(For the record, I was only half-joking about taking up over pokeytax's job and/or Aerogp's old job, FFMaster I really do have like twice as much time as everyone else currently [unfortunately]. I'm not going to nag about it; I just wanted to clarify given how ambiguous the tone of that was.)

Damn. I had meant to post forever ago when I had new team up besides the Namastaydead one, but of course, the two other teams I have in mind still need to be ironed out mentally. As such, for now, I've opted to just go with a theme team that ended up looking a lot more competent than I thought it would, mostly because it made me realize a few coincidental things.

We'll see how that goes, especially since I'm posting just in time to get my ass whooped by Sir CT5Holy again. That should be amusing as always.

Anyway, belated thanks for the videos even though you were busy, FFMaster. Thanks to you as well, Wiz.

(I chuckled darkly at the fact that other Cursed Ring team's two particular fates, especially given that its strategy is combined with the what-I-feel-is-nigh-useless Death spell, though that hasn't really mattered with Flare being what it is.)

Especially since Conc's removal, I feel that Geomancy is a bit too good. Wasn't it suggested to be subject to M-Evade? Try runnin' your teams vs my Faithless Cowards...

Indeed, it was suggested to be subject to M-Evade. However, I can't recall if anyone else suggested it, so I might have been the only person to "offer" that up.

I think it's been shown the AI's so stupid with Quickening, that it's not too OP... especially with few speed-based damage skills.

While I know that we're supposed to be aware of the AI's stupidity, that's more planning around it rather than planning on using it to try "balance" skills that would otherwise be OP or even broken. The problem with Quickening is less that it directly boosts other attacks than that its Speed boost is permanent, always actives, goes off instantly and accumulates, which is rather bad given that Speed is almost literally EVERYTHING in FFT (given otherwise normal stat parameters and instances and not crap like Kanabarif or whomever).

The only reason that Accumulate isn't as suspect is because it doesn't allow units take two [or more] turns eventually, thus making their Quickening actions essentially "free turns" at times, and that most PA-based attacks are single-targeting [or linear if they're multi-target]. It also helps Accumulate is in a relatively mediocre (at best) set, compared to Quickening being in the same set as all stat Ruins, Bad Luck and freaking Steal Heart--Spellbreaker could maybe use a buff, but that's rather unrelated.

Quickening really just needs to die, especially if Cheer Song and Speed Save (as it currently is) stick around.

EDIT: Hunting Bow nerf plz... dunno if it's OP, but it's really annoying, and blatantly the only crossbow to use in comparison to the others.

I...somewhat agree with this, but the only other thing you could change it to would be, what, Oil? I guess that would be less obnoxious and even beneficial to Fire-element teams--not like they need the help. However, it's somewhat unfair to that one Ninja Sword.

Didn't expect Flare to be so devastating, 450 damage is... damn strong. That MP gets burned out so quickly though, and if you can't one-shot the enemy, it means a lot of bad things. Those Wizards were already out of MP after 2 casts. So you pick durability or MP.

I have to admit that it still weirds me out that Flare is so much stronger than Holy, even when Holy (element) is strengthened. Not that Priests should be able to going around OHKO'ing things.

Another note - I am really disliking how Mimes are currently being used. They have been used as singbots/dancebots exclusively, and people will run 2 or none. I actually think running just one Mime with a proper team around it would be better. Mime can theoretically hit a single opponent 4 times per round. Mime is quite durable with Unyielding as well, and may also work for some tanking, with a bit of healing support (Moogle is probably the one I'm looking at). I may try to throw something that works once I have the time.

That's not entirely true. They were used as Lichbots when Lich was still OP as well.

Anyway, I'd argue that the problem really is that they can Mimic the stat-boosting Songs at all. You could just make those Songs not able to be Mimicked without affecting the other Songs. The same should probably go for the respective stat-dropping Dances to keep balance; this way Miming Wiznaibus and Nameless Dance get to stay around given how spectacularly they can backfire and Life Song remains actually useful with Mimes. You might have to make Last Dance unable to Mimicked too, but I doubt it would be (huge) of a problem unless someone got REALLY unlucky.

Just a thought.

*shrugs*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 23, 2011, 08:08:14 AM
Quote

I...somewhat agree with this, but the only other thing you could change it to would be, what, Oil? I guess that would be less obnoxious and even beneficial to Fire-element teams--not like they need the help. However, it's somewhat unfair to that one Ninja Sword.


You could give the other crossbows 1 additional WP and lower the proc chance of don't move to 33%
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 24, 2011, 06:22:06 AM
Match 4 and 5 Set 2 CT5Holy (Teams "Do Not Disturb" and "Anti-Melee?") vs Squidgy (Teams "Save Me" and "Faithless Cowards") (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_gDQ0wSBPM&fmt=18)

That does it for now :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on July 24, 2011, 08:18:30 AM
Quickening Mime sounds scary.
Hax Ninjas are cool.

Thanks much Wiz.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 24, 2011, 04:13:53 PM
True Light (Swords of Swords) vs True Light (Mages of Doom) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_snXpsk6J4)

Dol (Masochism) vs Malroth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8vH3Ewpzsk)

CT5Holy (Do Not Disturb) vs Teddirayo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e6G_B3qZBQ)

Dol (Healing Death) vs Vigilanti (I Can Hurt You!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qpvbN6CqfQ)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on July 24, 2011, 06:44:35 PM
I forget whether MP Restore triggering even when not in critical was intentional or not, but I like it this way. Will definitely consider using.

Thanks Barren! (and Wiz, but I already told you in chat =P)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 24, 2011, 07:40:31 PM
I was almost out of JP when it came to picking a reaction so I could only choose from the classes I already had  so I thought it'd be slightly more handy than MA save

I forget whether MP Restore triggering even when not in critical was intentional or not, but I like it this way. Will definitely consider using.

Thanks Barren! (and Wiz, but I already told you in chat =P)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 25, 2011, 03:30:50 AM
Well MA Save and MP Restore are useful for different purposes, your bard's has summon magic so mp restore was a good reaction for him considering that he can keep casting titan or ifrit over and over...so you made some good choices there where as my bard is a DO abuser with MA Save and its instant 100% accuracy attack

I will say Malroth that your dancer could have been better but she can do her job well with her ninjitsu and plus giving fire absorb to your archers neat idea! plus the good compat heal is neat...though i would try best compat if you're going for a fire heal...but thats just me. still good team Malroth, you've been watching some arena matches up until now to try, i can tell :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Dol on July 25, 2011, 07:06:48 PM
Some thoughts on my teams and the rest of the matches.  Transitioning from vanilla and 1.3 mindsets to Arena is going to take some mental adjusments on my part.




General thoughts on other matches.

- Charm working on both sexes seems.... odd.

- MP Restore working on any damage rather than on critical status is a great change.  Doesnt really help on the glass cannon mages since they will usually die in 1 hit, but it has some really nice utility.

-  CT5Holy's Quickening Mime team was just plain fun to watch.  Not necessarily the most powerful one, but definitely a fun concept.

- Geomancy/Counter Flood does seem a bit powerful due to being non-evasive.  I'd agree with the suggestion to make it M-Ev.

I'm sure I'm missing some random thoughts I've had in watching these.  I'll submit more teams/edits to try out different abilities to see if anything might need tweaking in the next patch.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 25, 2011, 07:44:34 PM
Dol (Blows) vs Angelus (Angelic) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu96rrnG8Ls)

DomieV (Song and Dance) vs zxpr0jk (Undeath) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWyQQo_CoXI)

I'm in a rush to go to work so i'll post more videos later on tonight
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on July 26, 2011, 12:52:53 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 26, 2011, 01:05:54 AM

Wizanabus is pretty strong right now,  perhaps if its damage was reduced by protect like other physical attacks and it had a chance of triggering counter and counterflood it wouldn't be such a one sided slaughterfest
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on July 26, 2011, 01:28:09 AM
Squidgy: It's the annoyance of watching triple dances. Speed Save and HP Restore still trump Wiznaibus. And yeah, the Wave Fist dealt ~200, so it definitely wasn't Wiznaibus alone that took down the Knight 1v1.
Wiznaibus also kinda needs Mimes, otherwise the damage is rather easily shrugged off, and it would only act as anti-sandbag against PD/Wish/Reraise (assuming Reraised unit can't heal self).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 26, 2011, 01:35:49 AM
Barren forgot to put this one up.

 Aquilae (Team Shish Kebab) vs Wiz (The Bachelors) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQYkPl2Bcl8&fmt=18)

And yeah, for 3x wiznaibus, you have to dedicate at the minimum 1 mime (2 dancers) in order to make that happen. Maps also make a difference considering that up close, they're more easily targeted by the enemy team in w.e. form (Strong Melee, AOE, etc...)

I remodeled my team btw so the Time Mage is spending two turns taking off petrify + hasting the team. Check version 2 of my team in the Team Submission thread for more details <_<
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pride on July 26, 2011, 01:41:32 AM
I thought my matches against CT5 in the last arena tournament showed the wiz spamming team is good but not unbeatable.... Speed Save and HP Restore make it very difficult for those types of teams to thrive and those are some of the best reactions around. The formula is already very weak, there isn't much more of a way to limit it if it was needed.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on July 26, 2011, 01:57:06 AM
It could get the same treatment Sage magic got: Slower CT, higher damage. I was referring to the 3x wiznaibus which happened with no Mimes alive... just really annoying to watch.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 26, 2011, 03:13:03 AM
Thanks everyone for the feedback so far, i'll upload more tomorrow
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 26, 2011, 01:48:51 PM
Squidgy (Save Me) vs LightningHax (Meow) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg97_UvyQWc)

Squidgy (Faithless Cowards) vs True Light (Original) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovU42gY6pyo)

More will be coming soon :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 26, 2011, 10:56:48 PM
The Faithless cowards are Unbelieveably Brutal, They don't hit paticularly hard but they're all super fast and incredibly tanky.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 27, 2011, 01:01:44 AM
I agree that they're tough as nails to take down even with those 8 SPD Squires who exploited Geomancy's main property, which is that it's not faith dependent! Considering that it's magical damage, it'd make sense that it uses faith over brave.

Honestly, I think Geomancy's OP Damage-Wise and here's why. I'd argue the same for DO, but I'll hold that off for another time.


The fact that the damage difference (along with the other stats listed) between the two's only 14 HP is more than enough of a reason to overhaul Geomancy.

I propose that it becomes faith dependent so the damage varies and/or possibly reduce the multipliers (PA and MA) of its formula. Your guys' thoughts?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 27, 2011, 01:17:31 AM
Make it all elemental so absorbtion gear works on it, and lower the base accuracy to 75% before M-EV,  that way its still a useful and powerful tool but isn't a gauranteed free cyclops equivilent.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on July 27, 2011, 01:21:33 AM
I'd say Squires are the OP ones, but I am a fan of assigning most damage skills to Brave or Faith, which is why I made that team. Geomancy gets nerfed and those Squires become Female, Draw Out secondary.

But Geomancy scales in an interesting way. Without the amazing stats of Squires, I'd be using Geomancers, and get 120, with -2 PA which is still probably too much, so I'm for a Faith influence.

25% miss chance sounds way too random. Elemental gear can mess that team up, which is probably the only time I saw them lose. It's also not a Cyclops due to area/vert/ally-target reasons.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 27, 2011, 03:25:06 AM
Well when you combine PA and MA Stats plus MA UP on a unit it makes geomancy strong, I also would think that maybe if the damage was faith based maybe the damage would be more balanced, at least though don't take away the effective damage of elemental, otherwise it'll be undesirable.

I am otherwise for the faith based elemental damage
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on July 27, 2011, 11:32:36 AM
Thanks for the videos Wiz and Barren. And thank you all for submitting teams and adding in your own comments. It really is hard to try to balance a game without any input. Although, I may need a new thread to make sure I find everything that needs to be changed and keep things in order. So keep your eyes open on Friday(Thursday night for you guys).

Once again, thank you all.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 27, 2011, 11:37:01 AM
Thank You FFMaster for making such a enjoyable patch that has a lot of people's attention these days, especially since now we're discussing how we can help you make this patch better... on the behalf of all of us who are involved with Arena and have commented on Arena and made videos for Arena, thank you for your hard work FFMaster!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 27, 2011, 11:46:41 AM
Vigilanti (I Can Hurt You) vs Malroth (Not your usual Song and Dance) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZkBTLFREZo)

Angelus (Angelic) vs True Light (Mages of Doom) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIfdWEDldRQ)

True Light (Swords of Swords) vs CT5Holy (Playing with Fire) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohi0bkyQm8w)

CT5Holy (Mass Destruction) vs Dol (Blows II) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2IRaGvAJls)

Wiz (The Bachelors) vs zxpr0jk (Undeath) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiNMAnLUJzc)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on July 27, 2011, 04:11:30 PM
(*patiently waits for either of his new teams to be used while continuing to toil in Excel*)

Yes, thanks for all the videos, Barren. Although, I must confess that I cast a curse upon your house and TrueLight's house for making me want to make a Kingdom Hearts themed team again.

Hmmm...I feel like I'm forgetting to say something considering how long I've been up. I "updated" my three old, still valid teams and I know that I want to say that Flare's damage seems kinda "suspect", but I think it was something else....

The Faithless cowards are Unbelieveably Brutal, They don't hit paticularly hard but they're all super fast and incredibly tanky.

140 damage at instant speed that's unable to be dodged, hits multiple panels and can be done from quite a distance isn't "particularly hard"? While Thieves are indeed weaklings, Elemental being unable to be dodged makes tha moot point.

Make it all elemental so absorbtion gear works on it, and lower the base accuracy to 75% before M-EV,  that way its still a useful and powerful tool but isn't a gauranteed free cyclops equivilent.

While it would indeed make sense for all skills in the Elemental set to be...elemental, that wouldn't really solve the underlying problem of the aforementioned attributes and the way it scales as Squidgy points out. At best, it would just make Earth Clothes and Float (even) more useful (in some situations).

Also, I'm not sure lowering the base accuracy like that is (currently) possible formula-wise.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on July 28, 2011, 12:03:33 AM
Quite disappointed in the paladins.  Wasted turns using Accumulate. I figure they couldn't get into melee range, so the next best option was to retreat and use Accumulate. That will be addressed. I'd like someone to clarify something for me. Because knight-swords are forced two-hand, do they get the two-hand damage modifier? I wasn't sure if Chaos Blade's WP would be 16 or 32. So do all forced two-hand items get the damage modifier built in or does it require having the two-hand support to get the benefit even when using forced two-hand weapons?

The wizards did as expected. As well as could be expected anyway, when the enemy team has a floater and seal evil. Death was really supposed to be saved to rez the paladins, but since they didn't rush in round three. Derp.. They'd have more draw outs, but they were heavily burdened by the JP cap.

I'm making a couple changes and updating. I would like to have at least one small map each time though. That was three medium-large maps in a row. Paladins had no choice but to fall back since they couldn't reach their targets.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on July 28, 2011, 12:10:56 AM
They don't get the 2 hands multiplier.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 28, 2011, 03:15:20 AM
How did a blind monk have a 89% chance to hit my mantle wearing, defending, abandon dancer in the last video?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 28, 2011, 03:17:24 AM
he was using shuriken which i guess ignores blind status
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on July 28, 2011, 06:05:47 AM
(Not sure if a new thread is needed just yet, but, hey, it's up to you FFMaster [and technically PX].)

Shuriken goes by magical evade, so, yes, it ignores Blind.

That's why it and Dia tend to hit people more often than not since only Shields and Mantles (and Magic Gauntlet, which almost no one uses) have M-EV.

Quite disappointed in the paladins.  Wasted turns using Accumulate. I figure they couldn't get into melee range, so the next best option was to retreat and use Accumulate. That will be addressed. I'd like someone to clarify something for me. Because knight-swords are forced two-hand, do they get the two-hand damage modifier? I wasn't sure if Chaos Blade's WP would be 16 or 32. So do all forced two-hand items get the damage modifier built in or does it require having the two-hand support to get the benefit even when using forced two-hand weapons?

As FFMaster said, items that forced Two Hands don't get the boost that Two Hands will would give you, mostly because Two Hands isn't required to equip them since that would defeat the point. Even if you gave Two Hands manually or innately to a class and then had them equip a Knight Sword (or something else that's forced Two Hands, like Longbows), that weapon won't get the bonus.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on July 28, 2011, 11:01:54 AM
Imah have a new team... Snakes!!!!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 28, 2011, 09:04:29 PM
Aquilae (Shish Kebab) vs Wiz (The Speedsters)   WARNING! VERY LONG MATCH! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ympo7YwNA1c)

Barren (Big Assault) that's me :P vs Malroth (Not your usual Song and Dance) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTia6B7xhs)

The Damned (Promo) vs Red World (The Dawn Brigade) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61VzwdNiwrg)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on July 29, 2011, 04:22:19 AM
(Ugh. That entire first match and the first round of my match were quite frustrating to watch.)

Just wanted to say thanks, Barren, for the promptness and fortitude considering how long just those three matches are. I figure I say that now before I get sidetracked responding for at least of couple of hours typing up a reply to the 131 thread.

Well, that and I changed Strider & Hawkeye already considering what a liability they were.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on July 29, 2011, 02:31:29 PM
(Ugh. That entire first match and the first round of my match were quite frustrating to watch.)

Why frustrating? There's no need to get upset over a match that went on for an extended period of time. It was quite entertaining to see my mime mimic charmed enemy spells, which is unprecedented or not seen for a long time if I'm incorrect with the former.

Although I will admit, this team's designed to be most effective on a large map with quickening spam and unfortunately fought on two small maps causing my units to sandbag more often than I wanted them to. I made this team specifically to show how broken Quickening is in the long run, and now that the results are crystal clear, it should be rid of entirely or at the minimum modified in some sort of sensible fashion (Change to "+20 CT", increase MP cost to 20-30, give it a CT value, etc...)

Now I would talk more about the mechanics, but I'll save that for the 131 discussion thread so...as for matches



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on July 29, 2011, 08:14:06 PM
(Yeah, Quickening needs to die.)

I must admit as hilarious as the second round was, I feel kinda dirty for using Speed Save given how much I loathe its current incarnation.

Why frustrating? There's no need to get upset over a match that went on for an extended period of time. It was quite entertaining to see my mime mimic charmed enemy spells, which is unprecedented or not seen for a long time if I'm incorrect with the former.

Oh, it wasn't "upsetting" per say frustration-wise. It was just the "roll eyes as the AI delays the inevitable conclusion" type of situation that tends to happen. Trust me, it's not that I'm impatient. It's just that AI was, as it too often is, really stupid about wrapping things up.

After I certain point, I was just listening to it as I was working in another tab because of how often Charm was hitting as well, which resulted in your team spending on "revving up" because of how little damage they could do. Given how the AI usually reacts to Charm unless it can hit the unit for 50%+ of its HP or Charm is about to wear off anyway, that tended to happen a LOT.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 29, 2011, 10:35:35 PM
zxpr0jk (Undeath) vs LightningHax (Meow) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUOEJZKF-kY)

CT5Holy (Do Not Disturb) vs Wiz (The Speedsters) V2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUTmB1lszOM)

Dol (Holy AoE Batman) vs True Light (Dark Chronicles) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXaq0qDJgK8)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on July 30, 2011, 01:13:44 AM
Love Dol's new AOE team  I think its my new favorite
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on July 30, 2011, 02:19:04 AM
zxpr0jk (Undeath) vs LightningHax (Meow) Rematch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfgCNfF1FSI)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 01, 2011, 01:14:38 AM
I will be uploading more Arena matches tomorrow...if anyone wants to assist me in doing Arena vids, feel free to do so
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 01, 2011, 03:00:09 AM
(Thanks again for this Barren.)

Yeah, I'd try to help with this, even though I don't have a mic, but my computer is so sluggish as to likely combust should I try recording a video...if I even knew how to do that properly in the first place. So I am again, useless. I could have sworn someone else was doing recordings before, though, or at least said they were capable. Hmm....
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 01, 2011, 03:24:30 PM
Don't worry about Damned, I appreciate your contribution anyhow...its the thought that counts  :P

Now onto more Arena matches!

Vigilanti (I Kin Hurt You!) vs formerdeathcorps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CHMsX3vU44)

Red World (The Dawn Brigade) vs Dol (Flare) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RytF-lorXw)

DomieV (Song and Dance) vs Squidgy (Save Me) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCkbhpcT34k)

Barren (Big Assault) vs The Damned (Promo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR5lR4Soq2o)

Shade (Snakes) vs Malroth (Mad Science) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkUe7J56PKE)

Dol (Fish) vs Angelus (Angelic) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=472lsoiXUfI)

Shade (Academy) vs Squidgy (Faithless Cowards) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwNbWoSosBc)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on August 01, 2011, 06:41:35 PM
So I can't run the physical + magical secondary that worked so well in 1.3.  All right, then my team should look like this.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 02, 2011, 01:55:36 AM
fdc (and everyone else), follow Pokeytax's wisdom in the Team Submissions thread for organizational purposes please :mrgreen:


^, if you want one of us (Me, Barren, FFM, and whoever else that'll hopefully step up to the plate) to know of your team changes, please notify us via PM because there's a good chance that we're not going to check the Team Submssions thread five times a day just to look for updates ;)

After watching more of these matches, I'm starting to realize just how unbalanced Arena's becoming due to the exploits that are occurring (Geomancy, DO, "X Save" spamming, Sing/Dance + Miming). I won't get into anymore detail here since I'm addressing (am typing up) these very things in the 131 questionnaire thread atm XP
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pierce on August 02, 2011, 07:37:23 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 03, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Shade (Snakes) vs Eternal248 (Elite Four) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp5hFSNwDE)

Dol (Proc) vs Wiz (The Speedsters) V2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5vgNU5nDhA)

Malroth (Not your usual Song and Dance) vs True Light (Dark Chronicles) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KqvKeBzPAc)

Malroth (Mad Science) vs The Damned (Promo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=744gbj2YcdA)

Aquilae (Shish Kebab) vs formerdeathcorps LOLOLOLOLOL WTF!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exmjRMnq75A)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 05, 2011, 12:27:43 AM
(Ah, Carve Model. Still probably the ability with the most hax potential [that actually sees use] sans maybe the less common Water Ball.)

Hmmm...I feel like I'm forgetting something, but that's probably just because I need to respond to the Questionnaire thread (again...).

So, thanks again Barren. Also, I have new team now since I have horrible luck with Cursed Ring's potential resurrection; so "Promo" is temporarily retired for now--I could easily just give Ghost Rider something, but that's hardly the only problem with that team.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 05, 2011, 02:00:29 AM
Eternal248 (Elite Four) vs RavenOfRazgriz (Y U SO DERP) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiScIKhSP2o)

Dol (Flare II) vs Vigilanti (I Kin Hurt You!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbiLtIkHPQ4)

zxpr0jk (Undeath) vs Angelus (Angelic) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCoYym_Oi7M)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Angelus on August 05, 2011, 02:23:07 AM
Bloody Hell my holy themed team is getting crushed, seemingly everytime too :/

ahh well, I suppose ill do a new team by tomorrow for anyone to record

Cheers Mate!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Vigilanti on August 05, 2011, 02:25:01 AM
Oh...my...god...HELL YEA!!! I love this team I came up with now!!! Remember everyone I KIN HURT YOU! 4 Real! you don't even know! LOLZ

Anyways, GG Dol
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on August 05, 2011, 02:26:26 AM
Good matches....kinda surprised I beat Squidgy....anyways ill think of a new team since everyone is getting sick and tired of the SOS Song and Dance
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 05, 2011, 08:11:00 AM
(Damn. I feel a bit better my new team has two units that absorb Lightning.)

That might be for the best, DomieV. Otherwise I'd have to lead a lynch mob again you and your kind for their sins.

Bloody Hell my holy themed team is getting crushed, seemingly everytime too :/

ahh well, I suppose ill do a new team by tomorrow for anyone to record.

Cheers Mate!

You're actually doing well enough for only your second team.

Given that I only saw Wednesday that I apparently gave you theme idea, I'll (try to) give you a bit of advice since I feel I'm partly to blame:


Everything else I think you can figure out by trial and error.

Angelic EDIT (08/05/2011 - 1:16 A.M.): Whoops. Almost forgot. For the record, when I made that comment, I was actually talking about how your user name made me want to make a team based on either Buffy's Angelus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer)) or The Darkness's Angelus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_(comics))...because I'm a dork like that.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on August 05, 2011, 10:59:25 AM
(Ah, Carve Model. Still probably the ability with the most hax potential [that actually sees use] sans maybe the less common Water Ball.)

Don't overvalue Carve Model just because I got a 1/125 occurrence happen in my match.  A properly built esuna/stigma magic team (as long as they aren't split up) should counter that strategy, which essentially amounts to a 19% chance of at least breaking their initiative.  Aquilae lost more on the fact my squad could attack after his had moved (so I had first strike + nice AoE targets).

There seems to be a group of you all who want to remove anything that could decisively shift the advantage of a match to another team.  I personally think that if no such tactics exist in S6, it would not be worth entering; the game would become too deterministic.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Shade on August 05, 2011, 02:31:10 PM
Welcome the team 1337 Magic!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 05, 2011, 05:43:17 PM
Surprised I won even one game with that team. I only entered them so I had a team at all, and to test individual things before putting them into a real team.

That said, I can't get the bad taste of dancing mimes out of my mouth. Dancing mimes on a large map = 1 or 2 rounds of free damage considering +movement is scarce. Wiznaibus x6 before the enemy ever gets close. If they hunker down and defend, they take another wave of wiznaibus. If they attack, they'll get mopped up by wiznaibus a couple waves later. It can do enough damage to anti-sandbag full map, always hits, and afaik can't be countered. So eating 6 40-60ish damage per character will amount 240damage per character, per wave, or 960 damage to the whole team after a single volley. That wouldn't be disgusting if it weren't so fast and 100%. So by the time your team has even reached the enemy, they're already in grave danger.

And maybe I haven't seen their true potential, but the paladin moveset is very lackluster and a little confused. The only ranged skill it has is MA based, yet Paladin MA is abysmal, as well as the adjusted damage for the target's Faith. It also has the holy element which can be absorbed/negated by fairly solid items while still doing no extra damage to anyone since undead is so costly that +1 Stats across the board isn't enough. It can't fight on a larger map because of the least move potential in the patch. As a secondary, it puts an otherwise offensive unit into a mixed role where, it would otherwise be offense all the time. Now you waste a solid damage turn to survive, which gives the enemy a turn to survive as well. I consider the paladin class both weak and counter-productive. I'd love an example of paladins being used effectively. Other offensive physical outclass it. Other defensive healers outclass it. It has almost no status utility. It obviously isn't an MA monster. Their large HP pool and defensive ability would be useful if the enemy targeted high HP units over squishies but they don't.

Those are just my thoughts, I could be missing something that makes them amazing, but from what I've seen, Paladins are a burden on any team and DancingMimes do absurd damage at no risk. Unless you're making a team of Woody Allens wearing breastplates.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 06, 2011, 12:04:41 AM
Red World (The Dawn Brigade) vs True Light (Crimson Riot) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnKZJKIPINE)

DomieV (Diversity) vs Angelus (Bum Rushing) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuKVA-Ij8Y)

Dol (Rare Skills) vs True Light (Mages of Doom) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92s4bahcx6E)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on August 06, 2011, 01:44:26 AM

That said, I can't get the bad taste of dancing mimes out of my mouth. Dancing mimes on a large map = 1 or 2 rounds of free damage considering +movement is scarce. Wiznaibus x6 before the enemy ever gets close. If they hunker down and defend, they take another wave of wiznaibus. If they attack, they'll get mopped up by wiznaibus a couple waves later. It can do enough damage to anti-sandbag full map, always hits, and afaik can't be countered. So eating 6 40-60ish damage per character will amount 240damage per character, per wave, or 960 damage to the whole team after a single volley. That wouldn't be disgusting if it weren't so fast and 100%. So by the time your team has even reached the enemy, they're already in grave danger.


I've never actually seen a wizanabus team win,  Even with optimized PAtk gear PA save and overwhelm i've only seen Wizanabus hit for 32 max and most of the time its in the low 20s. It also gives the opponents a 100% hit rate against you due to continious charging, and is effortlessly countered by speed save, hp restore, dragon spirt, regenerator, or damage split.    While it is a good counter to phenoix down spam  for anti sandbag  in almost every other case the dancer would be better off hitting an opponent with their scarf rather than continious wizanabus. 
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 06, 2011, 05:41:26 AM
Wiz does less damage than I previously thought, but still at an average of 25 damage per tic, multiplied by 3, it is 75 mapwide damage to each enemy. Multiplied by 4 enemies amounts to 300 damage to the team. That's not extreme. But as was already mentioned, it is extremely fast and consistent. Because of that speed, the enemy team will eat two wiz volleys before they make significant contact with the enemy. 600 damage before the two teams have even begun to clash. 1200 if there are two dancers and two mimes. It's funny that you say you've never seen a Wiz team win, because I have seen one win 4 times in the last month. Someone here is talking a bit of fluff.

I wish I had more games to reference, but I've only seen Domie's team in two matches. Nothing against Domie, btw, I'm glad his team exists so I have something to reference. With respect to his team, I adjusted the dance counts above, but in a 2d2m setup, that'd be 25*6*4=600 damage. That's double the damage for one more dedicated dancer. Two volleys of that will cripple/kill any team. That's not even calculating DPCT(Damage Per Clock Tic) when you consider, the longer the match goes on, the more damage is piled on the enemy team. In order to win, the enemy has to have a solid grasp on the win by their third turns or get an extremely lucky proc somewhere.

The fact that they are easily hit while performing is negated since they maintain distance from the enemy while performing. Only on small maps would the enemy team have a chance to attack the dancers, and that's if they have opted to ignore the mimes(strong units themselves). Which brings me to my next point, That's not 300 damage being done by three characters, that's 300 damage done by one character because it doesn't eat any mime actions. They still have considerable PA and life themselves as well as solid innates. So, again to reference Domie v Squidgy, It did about 300 damage to the enemy team in the first few turns. Then an additional 250ish from Mime punches. So if there is a bottleneck, the Dancing team has pumped out at least 500 damage to the enemy team while the enemy has returned effectively nothing. And, if there were an additional Dancer, the damage would be upwards of 850 damage. Before any real clash could happen.

I would advise against using words like "effortlessly" when talking about counters if you're not going to give each counter the genuine scrutiny it deserves. I have seen the Domie's wiz team win 4 out of 5 times. So let me "effortlessly" explain why those counters are weak/too costly in comparison to Wiz spam. Really... horrible choice of words.

Speed Save) Speed Save on Sguidgy's Paladins kept him in the game, but never gave him an advantage despite proccing almost every single time. What it did do, is give his Paladins a turn to heal before being hit by the next Wiznaibus volley. It didn't counter at all. On more range capable units like archers, it has a shot, but not much of one as the enemy team will still be keen on taking out the mimes first since they're already close. Even then, missing a mime could be an instant loss.

Damage Split) If Damage Split even can proc on it, it won't proc every time. So the max it can return is 25(wiz)x3(casts)x2(max damage split)/2(half damage)=75 damage. To be fair, it will drop the damage from the Dancers by 75 as well. So it becomes 225 damage against the enemy team. Output was 225(about 53 per unit) damage, return was 75(about 25 per unit). Spread among three on the enemy team. Damage Split does not counter Wiz spam. It does, at best, as well as Speed Save, getting you an extra turn, but arguably less effective since it doesn't have stacking benefits.

Regenerator) Simply put, it doesn't stack and requires the unit to get a turn before it regens. It can't keep up. Even on tanky units, that's what 50 hp restored per turn? When you're eating 60(actually more since two volleys will happen before a paladins next turn), how is Regenerator "effortlessly" countering again? Btw, the unit will still use a turn to heal/run since the heal happens after their turn completes.

Dragon Spirit) Again, doesn't stack. And has the added weakness of bringing people back with barely enough hp to survive a volley. If they have enough, they'll enter an endless loop until they don't proc a Dragon Spirit on the first hit. Otherwise, that Reraise didn't help at all. Their first turn will always be used to run/heal so that's a lost turn as well. And don't forget, this damage is ignoring the output of Mimes and completely disconnected turns allowing them to go ahead and kill them with one punch when they reraise if their CT lines up before the next Wiznaibus.

HP Restore) Gotta Admit, this one has potential. But it won't proc most of the time so only the tankiest of units will be able to get a chance. Not to mention only two people have it. And in addition, it would cost 750jp to actually get, or 1500jp for two characters in order to counter 350 on one unit of the enemy team. So you have two units(1500jp, hp gear, and specific reaction) countering 1 unit(350jp, varied gear, varied reaction), that won't work 100%. When it works, it'll be nice, but I am not going to rely on HP restore to win games for me. For every 25 games HP Restore will win, 75 games will go to the Wiz team. Especially if there are large maps in the rotation.

Which brings me to my final point, large maps or obstructed maps give the dancers a minimum 300hp lead before the game even starts. That's about the HP of an entire unit. For no risk. No loss, and while advancing their melee forces. In fact, if the mimes ever chose to just chill next to the dancers, it'd be 600+ unreturned damage. The longer it takes the enemy team to close the gap, the deeper in the whole they go. They don't have to die, just have to get low enough to enter sandbag mode. If they ever close on the Dancers, they still have tremendous PA and are still entirely capable of finishing someone with their scarf.

There's no such thing as an effortless counter. There are convenient counters, but anything that is bought with the express purpose of defending against one tactic is far from effortless, and in this case extremely costly or fails to counter at all. Be a little bit more respectful with your word choice and do the small amount of homework if you're going to refute something. I'm all for hearing how I'm incorrect, but you didn't give anything to support your argument. I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I have at least 2 molehills and some math to support my claims.

If Domie wouldn't mind explaining why he opted for a Bard and a Dancer instead of just two Dancers, that'd be nice too. He likely knows something I don't, because if I were to build the team, I'd get the second dancer and double my damage output in the first two turns. Could always put throw item/Raise 2 on a Dancer and have her pick up a mime.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on August 06, 2011, 08:19:02 AM
Well zxpr0jk I was watching Arena videos for a little bit and I do like mime teams so and I remember watching Celdia's team in action when they had a Beta Tourney (The One where CT5Holy won) and saw her 2x Dancer 2x Mime team in affect

I thought to myself that she had neat offense but not a lot of defense because its not always often that the dance would use item when the mimes are in critical so I came up with a variation of her team only 2x Mime and 1 Dancer and 1 Bard to pretty much cover both offense and defense

Simply put my mimes help out as anti-sandbag and can be helpful at sandbagging as well even with a team speed average of 32 (8-8-8-8) plus battle song makes the dancing stronger as well as the mime's damage output obviously

And again, after seeing it in action it can be OP I guess but I gave both bard and dancer high HP and Damage Split so they can tank a little bit better and still do damage considerably...of course there are other ways to use mimes effectively like triple summon (Dol's team which is I think now retired) or even triple geomancy/drawout but those have its risks too

So I went with the easiest way to use the mimes as the driving force of Song and Dance....it even beat Squidgy's Save Me team which im kinda of surprised at considering he is a pretty damn good player in Arena and I'm just a rookie

But i did make a new team because I can see people getting sick of the SOS results from my Song and Dance team so hopefully I'll make another mime team but tweak what I have going for me right now
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pride on August 06, 2011, 08:22:21 AM
Personally, I think Celdia's biggest weakness in the beta tournament wasn't necessarily the two dancers but having both of them locked in with Iron Boots which basically meant if the mimes fall... They probably aren't getting up. There have been a few successful dance/sing spam teams, they just aren't overly powerful.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 06, 2011, 08:24:35 AM
Yea true....I've always felt iffy about Iron Boots. I mean sure it has its purpose but to me most of the time it can make the unit worthless if they can't dish out strong offense
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pride on August 06, 2011, 08:36:07 AM
Yeah, I really haven't seen Iron Boots used effectively. There have been a few teams here and there that have had it worked (Pokeytax had a decent team iirc) but not in a way I would really consider them. Matches can too easily become 2 vs. 4.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on August 06, 2011, 08:45:14 AM
That's why I avoided using Iron Boots with my Song and Dance Team, so that way they can help out with the resurrection and damage capabilities like my White Magic Bard and my Martial Arts Dancer
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 06, 2011, 08:54:04 AM
Some stuff...

Some stuff...

Yea, I saw her team in the mem generator and plugged your team in to see who would win. She won 5 of 6 rounds, but it was always pretty close. I'd have to agree that the iron boots really held her back. Dancers have considerable PA and should move about near the end of a match to close it out, imo. I've created a Dancing Team and tried to incorporate the most valuable assets from both versions. Not requiring people to face it, but I'd like to see more tests of Dancing Teams either to provide evidence of necessary nerfs, or expose weaknesses. As it stands, I feel the opposition has to either 1) KO the Mimes during the second turn, or 2) Get a lucky RNG within 5 turns. Every round, it will get harder for them to come back.

I was under the impression the purpose of arena was to test the ruleset for imbalances and collect data before the next tournament. That's how I've been treating it anyway. Not to say I don't enjoy the battles.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 06, 2011, 08:56:55 AM
Well that's why We were having a discussion about season 6....still not sure when it'll happen, maybe when the next update comes put with the fixed spreadsheet because somehow Death Sentence from the Mediator skill tree is Missing >_<

Raven in particular would love to see it fixed
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 06, 2011, 09:15:44 AM
(With regards to the PM, it wasn't a problem. I only hope it actually helps given my record.)

Ah, damn. I only realized like four hours ago I should have called my new team "Gravity Squeeze". Damn inability to resist puns. Oh, well.

Anyway, thanks as ever, Barren. It's nice to know that Ancient Sword isn't working as it should. I'm trying to think of what other pieces of equipment haven't been used yet so that we can "check" them (with our faces).

I think I'll skip the Wiznaibus discussion for now, especially since I saw the following about five hours ago but was watching & doing several other things so I couldn't get around to it.

Don't overvalue Carve Model just because I got a 1/125 occurrence happen in my match.  A properly built esuna/stigma magic team (as long as they aren't split up) should counter that strategy, which essentially amounts to a 19% chance of at least breaking their initiative.  Aquilae lost more on the fact my squad could attack after his had moved (so I had first strike + nice AoE targets).

There seems to be a group of you all who want to remove anything that could decisively shift the advantage of a match to another team.  I personally think that if no such tactics exist in S6, it would not be worth entering; the game would become too deterministic.

Whoa whoa whoa, Izlude. Please come back down to Earth and stop jumping to conclusions, especially since you're putting words in my mouth that I never even got close to saying.

All I said that was "Carve Model is probably still the greatest source of hax that actually gets used". Not "Carve Model is OP and needs to nerfed even further than the rest of Elemental already needs to be" or "Carve Model is broken and needs to be lose its ability to Petrify completely."

Additionally, I wasn't even coming close to saying that you won solely because of it--that would be pretty hypocritical of me given that I've benefited the most from luck with it of anyone ever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFw_QbGLzKA&feature=related); besides, at least half of my teams have at least one unit that's immune to Petrify and I'm still using Petrifying Carve Model in Embargo, so, yeah. Those Petrifies in the second round of latest match just sped up your probable victory a lot.

All I was saying getting at, really (since I know that "luck" is necessary factor of almost all games), was of all the lucky skills, is that Carve Model greatly speeds up the matches because a)it actually gets used unlike Odin or Death or Lava Ball and b)Petrify counts as a KO unlike Frog, where another unit still always has to finish off the inevitability doomed unit and which can even be reversed by the same status. Also, in my case, it, more than any other skill, can result in units that would otherwise die or have no probable chance of winning manage to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

I'm really not sure how you got "I want it removed" from that one sentence, especially since I thought you "knew" me well enough at this point (as much as anyone can know anyone over the Internet) to know that I'd just say what I was getting at (how muddled it might be). I guess I was wrong, though I really don't why I had that impression in the first place since I'm usually better than allowing myself to hold naive delusions (and I mean this in general, not just with regards to our "relationship").

For the record, the only thing I could possibly want to happen to Carve Model individually is maybe it becoming Earth elemental (as Hell Ivy; Pitfall can become Dark or something) and/or that Petrify chance becoming Separate Petrify instead of All Petrify so it's even less likely to happen, but still possible. Otherwise, I don't really care.

(And to clarify, I'm not mad at the misunderstanding or anything. I'm just really mystified at how you came to the conclusion you did).

Anyway....

Yeah, I really haven't seen Iron Boots used effectively. There have been a few teams here and there that have had it worked (Pokeytax had a decent team iirc) but not in a way I would really consider them. Matches can too easily become 2 vs. 4.

Agreed. Even if Slow Dancing Paladins made half of us want to slit our wrists.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 06, 2011, 09:22:54 AM
I wouldn't mind most of the Elemental skillset being Earth elemental. It gives Earth some much needed love and may make Float a bit more useful in the process.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 06, 2011, 09:58:02 AM
(When you say "most", I'm going to assume you mean "most of the ones that still don't have an Element"--because making most of Elemental Earth element would probably be bad--even though there's only 3 Elementals that don't have an element.)

Yeah, I'd be all for that as well, though I'm somewhat wary since it might actually screw over Earth (absorb) more between Float, Elemental likely to be getting M-EV and the AI being stupid about not checking statuses when it tries to heal people. There's going to be a decent amount of Slow and Petrify going around if we make Hell Ivy and Carve Model Earth element, though it's not like there aren't ways to get around it and it's not as bad as "hey, let me cure your Sleep with this fatal Jump" that the AI loves to indulge in for some reason.

For the record, I don't think this is as necessary Elemental needing to be weakened (slightly) overall and to become magically evadable. I just think it makes "sense" for a skill set called Elemental to have all of its skills actually use some type of Element.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 06, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
I've added two teams. One is Wiz spam+summon magic, the other is a more traditional spread of physical, magic, and status offense.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 07, 2011, 04:37:34 PM
Barren (Big Assualt) vs zxpr0jk (Torros) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv8mNYUlb7g)

The Damned (Gravity, Well) vs LightningHax (Rawr) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU7mbfheUNY)

Squidgy (My First Mime) vs Wiz (Sexy Turtles A) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVjsUzntMUc)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on August 08, 2011, 05:09:43 AM
Squidgy (my first mine) vs Wiz (sexy turtles) was painful,  both teams had almost no damage and rediculious amounts of healing
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on August 08, 2011, 05:55:30 AM
Barren, you sound like Gaignun in your match Damned vs. LightningHAx.

Anyhow, on a more serious note, the match Barren vs. zxpr0jk shows that FFM must have somehow removed the blind ASM from the latest version of arena because his lancer had 70% hit vs. the enemy mime from the front (essentially implying that blind had no effect at all).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 08, 2011, 10:48:14 AM
Well I do like Gaignun's tone and style so I thought I give it a try and see if I can do it too

Besides that, I figured that blind could hurt one of my attackers but after you pointed out the blind asm i guess not so much
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on August 08, 2011, 11:16:39 AM
Seems that there is a bug with my Darkness hack. It's working fine... except when they have no accessory. Which means I should probably use one of the other darkness hacks, which would be better anyway.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 08, 2011, 01:11:51 PM
You did also catch that Ancient Sword doesn't trigger petrify like the description says right?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 08, 2011, 01:24:19 PM
Squidgy (my first mine) vs Wiz (sexy turtles) was painful,  both teams had almost no damage and rediculious amounts of healing

Responded on YT, but also wanted to note that I happened to cross this fluke where "once Dancer would sing while the other attacked" through experimentation and thought I'd use it to my advantage (although there were times when it was useless to dance XD).

I'm pleased with the results considering that I was dealt a fair amount despite all the defensive buffs thrown onto them via Cover Fire and all 3 rounds were 10+ minutes long :D

Also surprised with the results due to the fact that I had a +6 SPD advantage in team total XP
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 08, 2011, 05:41:54 PM
Shade (1337 Magic) vs Angelus (Angelic) V2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5FhkLxfU5k)

Mando (Blinding Light) vs zxpr0jk (Typical) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ws-Gx4jnuY)

Dol (Rage over Salth) vs LightningHax (Boom! I'm back, dummy!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN91exkn7ys)

Aquilae (Shish Kebab) vs DomieV (Diversity) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeL6eGS6SRQ)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 08, 2011, 06:38:33 PM
If anyone wants to help me post FFT Arena videos of any matches you want or requested to do, feel free to do so cause I could use the help

I'm not quitting or anything like that, it just would be nice to get help I know I mentioned it before

I do want to say Thank you everyone for your patience and support on your teams being show cased on my vids and I appreciate the feedback as well

I love posting videos for FFT Arena, its a fun tourney hack and so many teams to try out too and I'll continue to post videos whenever I can

Once again, Thank you everyone who watching these matches and commented on these matches
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 08, 2011, 06:47:33 PM
NP. I'll post some tomorrow :D

But first, I need to enter ALL the new teams into the spreadsheet XD

*Stares @ CT5Holy*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 08, 2011, 07:02:30 PM
Thanks Wiz, I really appreciate it
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on August 08, 2011, 07:11:29 PM
Wiz just letting you know I remodeled my Song and Dance team so I took out one Mime and replaced it with a Lancer, check it out
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 09, 2011, 03:52:06 AM
Just got back into town. Was at a funeral. Forgive me for watching my matches first. :)

I was under the impression Martial Arts only provided bonuses if you were Unarmed. Was that changed or was it not like that in vanilla? And I have no idea how Grand Cross works apparently. How does it calculate damage? What does it do? I'm going strictly by the Master's Guide which is so incomplete, I had no idea it healed.



Keep them coming. I won't be changing any of the teams for a little bit though. I'm going to have an unofficial minimum matches with them before I make changes. Good stuff though, learned a lot.

PS. Celdia's team also had iron boots, which I consider a handicap more than anything else as it quickly became 2v4 each time. After I get enough info with this team, I'll run trials with the other dances. I've got everything setup so I can do local tests. I want considerably more data with almost every class and item before the next tournament begins.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on August 09, 2011, 06:43:44 AM
Martial Arts increases some ability damage even if you have a weapon (eg, steals, Wave Fist, Dash, Throw Stone). This was present in vanilla.

Grand Cross deals PA*WP damage using the equipped weapon's element. For example, Equipping Coral Sword will make it Water elemental, equipping Excalibur will make it Holy. I can't remember if the Sword only requirement is still there. Either way, for next version, you can mix and match, like using Windslash Bow for Wind elemental Grand Cross. The only restriction will be that the range will stay at 1.

EDIT: It heals when the user also absorbs the element. For example, Excalibur/Chameleon Robe.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 09, 2011, 07:47:02 AM
(Sigh. I should try to go bed.)

Fff...I just realized that I didn't around going over the Pole thing Monday like I said I would. Dammit. Oh well, I'll do it when I get up, though today is already looking busy enough.

Before I do that, though.

Grand Cross deals PA*WP damage using the equipped weapon's element. For example, Equipping Coral Sword will make it Water elemental, equipping Excalibur will make it Holy. I can't remember if the Sword only requirement is still there. Either way, for next version, you can mix and match, like using Windslash Bow for Wind elemental Grand Cross. The only restriction will be that the range will stay at 1.

Provided you're not counting Katana, then, no, it doesn't have the restriction anymore. I'm pretty sure someone's Fire Absorb team used Asura to Grand Cross since Paladins can equip Katana.

...I just realized something. Hmm....

*begins thinking about another team*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 09, 2011, 04:51:41 PM
Got tired yesterday putting in teams. Will finish putting them in today, so tomorrow I'll have matches up by then at the very latest XD
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 09, 2011, 05:22:08 PM
I've started doing some local games, and I'm into game 4 between Vigilanti vs Mando...

Neither of you can kill the other... Talk about draining to watch...

It always ALWAYS ends up both paladins vs one monk. Sometimes one oracle survives, but the paladins can't hurt the monk in any way, and can practically full-heal each other. They also grand cross the monk which results in him full-healing as well because the AI doesn't recognize his absorption.

So I don't know how to call it. I'm not going to call it a draw, and as it stands, I'm leaning toward saying Vigi wins because at least his team can hurt the enemy. When it's those paladins v the monk, they literally can't damage him in any way. Any ideas? I'll be uploading the likely 5 game streak this afternoon for other people to see. Prior warning though, absurdly boring. I'm going to probably triple speed it in order to get it under 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 09, 2011, 05:24:45 PM
I'd say whichever team has the most units remaining wins, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Dol on August 09, 2011, 05:27:00 PM
I've started doing some local games, and I'm into game 4 between Vigilanti vs Mando...

Neither of you can kill the other... Talk about draining to watch...

It always ALWAYS ends up both paladins vs one monk. Sometimes one oracle survives, but the paladins can't hurt the monk in any way, and can practically full-heal each other. They also grand cross the monk which results in him full-healing as well because the AI doesn't recognize his absorption.

So I don't know how to call it. I'm not going to call it a draw, and as it stands, I'm leaning toward saying Vigi wins because at least his team can hurt the enemy. When it's those paladins v the monk, they literally can't damage him in any way. Any ideas? I'll be uploading the likely 5 game streak this afternoon for other people to see. Prior warning though, absurdly boring. I'm going to probably triple speed it in order to get it under 15 minutes.

I agree.  The team with the Monk wins in that case imo since hes "invincible".
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 09, 2011, 05:33:34 PM
Haha! Exciting(relatively speaking) conclusion.

I'd never attribute a win to "whomever has more units" since that encourages turtling and you'd end up with more teams stalemating. And in this case, it wouldn't have mattered if he had 3 people up, Mando would not be able to kill the Monk. With his paladins working against him, and the monk having multiple forms of regen, and the oracle's frequent misses, it wouldn't be fair to say he "won". That'd be saying "whomever had more units with Holy Absorption won"

There was a decided victory though in round 5 after 4 draws. So glad to be through with that match up...
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 09, 2011, 05:36:31 PM
Hey, mind testing either of my teams later, zx?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 09, 2011, 06:15:52 PM
I've got a sort of "mini-tourney" setup going.

I chose 8(7) players on the submissions thread counting back from the finish. Rolled for bracket locations, and then chose a random team of theirs. I'm going to do best of fives, single elimination. So it helps me keep a schedule. At the moment, I'm having conflicts with youtube since I can't upload anything over 15 minutes and my mic is god awful. For now, I'm just going to upload videos with just game sound and sped up as needed. Afraid I'll need to nix the "intros" for now since I don't have a mic and showing them would take more time but I'll provide links to the teams in the descriptions. I'll provide the memcard if anyone wants it.

But I'll make sure to put you in when I start the next "mini-tourney". So you'll be in there, probably next week? Make a note of which team you want entered, and I'll make a point of putting it in. Other than that, random position, and random maps(sans pub) against 7 people. I also plan to do a "highlight reel" and post-round analysis for the three rounds of the tournaments.




I'm not making any plans until I'm able to record, encode, and upload at least three matches a day.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 09, 2011, 06:25:42 PM
Huh, that's a pretty cool idea. I like it! I don't mind which teams of mine are tested. They can all use some testing.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 09, 2011, 07:09:55 PM
I'll have your match Eternal up soon, if anyone happens to be subscribed to my channel go ahead and post Eternal vs Red World
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 09, 2011, 07:12:04 PM
Excellent. Thanks a ton Barren! :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 09, 2011, 07:13:33 PM
Anytime :) its a really really good match IMO, you'll see soon
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 09, 2011, 07:24:31 PM
Here's Vigilanti v Mando (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukmgf0_9tjk)

And something I recorded about a week ago: Undeath vs Typical (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pu_NoZpJIE).

New videos will be the size of the second, and I'll add music after the fact.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 09, 2011, 07:30:29 PM
Uploading the video now

Again whoever wants to, go ahead and post the match

I got to run to work, later all!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: TrueLight on August 09, 2011, 08:16:56 PM
 Red World (The Dawn Brigade) vs Eternal248 (Longshots) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV2CvQ1t7XE&feature=feedu)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 09, 2011, 08:50:29 PM
That was an amazing fight!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Mando on August 10, 2011, 12:55:03 AM
That is a good monk XD
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Vigilanti on August 10, 2011, 02:22:02 PM
After my match with Mando, I realized that my team needs better damage output so I remodeled my team one more time
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 11, 2011, 02:12:02 AM
(I added a new team "Someday, A Wave" to the team submission thread. For the record, Barren, feel free to use one of my older teams too. I think Ms. Edea and Oil Ocean only ever had one match.)

Thanks, zxpr0jk and Barren. Not sure I quite understand the "mini-tournament" idea, but whatever helps ARENA to move along.

This reminds me that I need to post something when I come back....
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 11, 2011, 02:30:52 AM
I guess I can resume Arena vids tomorrow
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 11, 2011, 03:47:54 AM
I'm still chugging them out extremely slowly since I'm getting used to the process and finding what works, and what doesn't.

Mando(Blinding Light) vs DomieV(Song and Dance and Punch) 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o892wCVfu9s)
Mando(Blinding Light) vs DomieV(Song and Dance and Punch) 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72P9fp8__ig)
Mando(Blinding Light) vs DomieV(Song and Dance and Punch) 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enqZBjiIUjM)

Because of the pruning of the submissions thread, I've decided to change things before I get underway. Instead I'll have every team go at it 5 times. Creates plenty of footage, in my opinion, gives a more honest portrayal of how a team functions.

And I don't know why I end up running a Mando match first everytime... Hope he'll forgive me for using him as a test subject.

But don't worry guys, I'll pick up speed as time goes on.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on August 11, 2011, 12:45:02 PM
Well after watching these videos against Mando, I realized that my team has proved to be resilient and deadly at the same time....I think i'll stick with this team for a while since now I added a perk to my original Song and Dance team (meaning my martial arts lancer)

Good matches Mando, I like your team as well since its effective at healing and damage with the elemental and status procs working for you
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 11, 2011, 12:46:15 PM
Good job zxpr0jk, i like your style of videos

though if you want it to go just a tad bit faster try running it at 180 fps

other than that, it looks like you got the recordings down pretty good
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 11, 2011, 07:31:34 PM
This is where the recording for Eternal's Longshots versus My inquisition should have been, but for a variety of reasons, it won't be.

In place of that, have this:

He won 12 of the 15 games across three attempted five round recordings. I won the very first recording at 3 to 2, but ever since my thief has been incapable of evading more than 2 crossbow bolts all game. And getting hit with a Don't Move bolt was an instant loss, pretty much.

My Oracle couldn't seem to hit any charms or zombies outside the first 5 matches, and the Scholar only seemed to use Mad Science on herself in the fifth match of every series, but never used her 300+ damage pokes.

Because of the lack of Zombies, the Paladin and thief were incapable of doing their most useful attacks, Consecration and Seal Evil, and the majority of games ended with the Paladin alone with 3 or 4 archers picking at him. Because he's packing a Murasame, he could do no damage to them and inevitably fell.

Overall, the Longshots have excellent speed, damage, range, and status superiority. While I have some strong status effects, if I got them off, I couldn't capitalize on them before archers got turns, or they didn't get off, and it resulted in a wasted turn. Another weakness would be my single unit having raise skills. Once the scholar dropped, it was a downhill fight for the rest of the match. Often a Beguile would be set to cast on an archer with P Down, but because of the 40 faith on all the archers and neutral compat, I was flipping a coin on all status effects.

Well done eternal, I'll expect the Longshots to snipe several more people in the future.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on August 11, 2011, 07:58:01 PM
zxpr0jk  on your paladin replace sing with item so you have 2 characters with resurect and replace his Murasame healing sword with a Muramasa for its 100% faith proc and ability to damage non undead.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 11, 2011, 08:21:38 PM
Dol (Procs) vs THE RETURNING Skip Sandwich (My Happy Pills) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEKXAv2sWIc)

True Light (Crimson Riot) vs Vigilanti (I Kin Hurt You!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0npCwidvkE)

Dol (Annoying) vs Wiz (Sexy Turtles B) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCnDyJPLGSY)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 12, 2011, 08:57:07 PM
I took another look at the FFT Arena Guide and I forgot that Viglinti's thief needed equip heavy blade to wield the muramasa so my apologies for missing that
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 12, 2011, 09:17:43 PM
Barren(Big Assault) vs DomieV(Song and Dance and Punch) 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbBCiiSDMT8)
Barren(Big Assault) vs DomieV(Song and Dance and Punch) 2/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SCmpq1Ku-8)

And also, when I was uploading this, I was informed I can upload videos over 15 minutes in length. :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 13, 2011, 02:00:46 AM
Good series of matches DomieV :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: DomieV on August 13, 2011, 02:04:44 AM
Good series of matches DomieV :D

Hell yea man...that was a very even match between us...GG Barren
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 13, 2011, 08:08:42 AM
Mando (Hindu) vs CT5Holy (Do Not Disturb) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDs_56jBx7U)
(If nothing else watch the first round)


CT5Holy (Do Not Disturb) vs Eternal248 (Longshots) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjmqWx5q-TU)

*Unfortunately, CT5Holy informed me that his Ninja shouldn't have Raiton. My mistake. It's JP legal, but if either Eternal or Mando would like a rematch, I'll let them request it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Eternal on August 13, 2011, 12:09:31 PM
That was painful to watch.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 14, 2011, 12:49:17 AM

But yeah, just thought I should let you guys know about the progress.

An note to the wise, Camtasia's got a noise removal feature, which essentially gets rid of that annoying BG noise!
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on August 14, 2011, 03:36:50 AM
Dol (Procs) vs THE RETURNING Skip Sandwich (My Happy Pills) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEKXAv2sWIc)

Ah Odin, my old nemesis returns, lol. Ah well, I'll just have to make sure my next team has some anti-death equipment, just in case :)

Anyway, for those curious, all my units are named after types of anti-depressants (and no, I'm not taking ALL of those, just the citlalopram).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 14, 2011, 03:38:49 AM
Not intending to double post, but time limit's removed again, meaning I can edit this ginormous video and chances are, it'll take literally all night to upload due to the fact that the upload speed here SUCKS :p
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 14, 2011, 10:03:25 AM
Voila! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5v1ET5OxUE)

Note: No music nor in-game sounds, so I suggest you grab some music (if you want to) and require you to make Popcorn :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 14, 2011, 01:14:07 PM
Aquilae (Shish Kebab) vs Squidgy (Save Me) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgbYKOQzp_c)

Dol (Rare Skills) vs formerdeathcorps (Heroes) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og65CTBIgWc)

LightningHax (Meow) vs True Light (Mages of Doom) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLYY_ySPj8)

Shade (1337 Magic) vs LightningHax (Rawr~) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKSdOt-s_ZE)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on August 14, 2011, 02:34:50 PM

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Vigilanti on August 14, 2011, 03:02:19 PM
My bad on sending in an illegal team Wiz and Barren even though it didn't matter too much....i completely forgot about the thief equips and such...but hey when season 6 comes along whenever that will be I will be ready this time
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Dol on August 14, 2011, 04:00:35 PM



(work in progress, watching the 4 hour long Wiz video)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on August 15, 2011, 06:00:00 AM
Damned's Grand Cross Monk was awesome.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 15, 2011, 08:38:34 AM
It's CT5Holy night.

Eternal248(Fisticuffs) VS CT5Holy(Do Not Disturb)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezJdSfBHtA)

CT5Holy(Standstills) VS Eternal248(Longshots)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bdusw3NieU)

CT5Holy(Do Not Disturb) VS Zxpr0jk(Toros)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQJngX736sE) *warning: contains considerable wiz spam. If that pisses you off, then you probably aren't going to like this video.

----

Tomorrow I have Heroes vs Dawn Brigade Planned. If anyone wants to request a specific match for their team, I'm in the irc channel most of the day. Come in, pm me, we'll get it arranged. But for now, enjoy. :)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 15, 2011, 04:43:49 PM
First two Matches I predicted correctly except the last one.


Btw, anyone like the new avatar? ^_^
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on August 15, 2011, 05:04:30 PM
I find it seriously ironic that you find automatic 80 HP healing from a reaction that counters all forms of damage to be low when you think someone dealing hard to block ranged damage for 80-140 to one unit to be OP.  To be honest, Auto Potion right now is fine and boosting it past 70 HP on heal would cause it to verge into OP territory.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 15, 2011, 10:57:04 PM
I'm going to put this off a day so that someone can have a chance to pm me back. (and for my own time off since it takes the better part of an evening to get everything going)

Sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 16, 2011, 12:51:43 AM
When did I ever say that "block ranged damage for 80-140 to one unit" was OP? When it came to your monks, I was more ecstatic than anything how much the two of them totaled up 288 damage (144 per Shuriken use) from six panels away. Multi-hitting attacks that hit hard having no CT, nor MP from four panels away with an AOE of one (Geomancy) is my beef.

Geomancy, as I've made my case before with Kiku in S5, is OP because the DPS is absurd considering it commonly hits two people at a time (harder to sandbag than a 271 damage poke from one of Aquilae's Lancers at 70 Br Neutral Compat on both ends since both or more units need to heal each other up) with a ~1/5 chance of a status proc triggering, and at 140 (Squidgy's Squires), hitting two people equals 280 damage from one Elemental user.


Thankfully, my request was granted such that the formula's getting a well deserved nerf for 131.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 16, 2011, 10:55:23 AM
Zaen (A Motley Crew) vs Skip Sandwich (Full Metal Sandwich) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyvAiEea0zs)

CT5Holy (Mass Destruction) vs Barren (Big Assault) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPpbgp7D3IY)

True Light (Innocence of Silence) vs The Damned (Someday, A Wave) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z-Klj7jHeY)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Mando on August 16, 2011, 06:41:52 PM
Yes Wiz, but turtle tactics due to the way brave and fury works in arena is just as bad...
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 17, 2011, 11:16:24 AM
Get rid of "Always: Protect" and "Always: Shell" on the Persia + Cashmere and replace them with nothing since they'd stomp on the Cherche and Setiemson's toes, which already have those properties initially.

It's not bad, it's a creative means of winning by making matches last a long time exploited most effectively by me, with and without abusing speed save + quickening. The objective is to obtain victory and if I've got to drag out matches to achieve such a goal where I believe I have the highest chances of of doing so, then I'll happily do just that. I do see how stacking 40 Br w/ the Defensive Buffs can get quite a bit annoying and if people are deeply concerned about this becoming an uninteresting manner of succeeding and don't want to see anymore, they can make requests like nerfing AU/MAU to 5/4 from 4/3 and DU/MDU to 1/4 from 1/3 then rid of Unyielding + Overwhelm since they take the best of both worlds, AU/MAU or DU/MDU and slap the two together in one piece making the user more versatile. Ridding Martial Arts from the equation would be nice as well since the constants in the Punch Art Formulas can be altered so it's like as if people seemingly get the impression that already have it as innate, but in actuality, they don't.

Recorded a match yesterday, and will post that up later today fyi.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 17, 2011, 10:40:19 PM
Angelus (Bum Rushing) vs Kalas (The Fornier Sisters) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRXlRxoCXE8)

Eternal248 (Fisticuffs!) vs Malroth (Not your usual Song and Dance) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udP_ZpulMWI)

True Light (Forgotten) vs Zaen (De-Buffapalooza) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M92sTn0Dpo)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 18, 2011, 01:45:54 AM
Kalas (The Fornier Sisters) vs Zaen (Debuffapalooza) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BVlpmKWtnw&fmt=18)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Zaen on August 18, 2011, 04:10:40 AM
I'm sorry, Wiz.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 18, 2011, 05:21:43 AM
Thanks for the uploads, Barren(foriner v bum rushing for me) and Wiz(spoiler).

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on August 18, 2011, 07:12:51 AM
Oh... oh god.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 19, 2011, 01:26:11 AM
Barren (Phantasy Star) vs Mando (DAT FRAT) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3anRcMfzKg)

formerdeathcorps (Heroes) vs Mando (Hindu) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_OvZ72o3w)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Dol on August 19, 2011, 03:48:58 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 19, 2011, 07:53:15 PM



I'll upload a couple of matches tomorrow, will record them tonight ;)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on August 20, 2011, 03:55:04 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 21, 2011, 12:06:12 AM
Eternal248 (Parted Ways) vs Dol (I can has Archers!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey-tuNbA4e0)

Barren (Phantasy Star) vs Barren (Deep Dungeon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAX756l0HDw)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Dol on August 21, 2011, 03:24:41 AM

I watched the Barren v Barren fight with the Closed Captions on.  Incredibly hilarious  :lol:
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 21, 2011, 10:18:35 AM

note taken...i'll most definitely rework the deep dungeon team
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 22, 2011, 11:29:37 PM
Good thing you did, your two-sworded ninja was technically illegal.

Air Knife is one-handed >_>

But yeah, I've been trying to decide what I want to do in terms of recording for the last few days and have settled in. I'll put up a batch tomorrow like I did in my first MADNESS series (most likely won't be as long), then get to doing full-fledged playthroughs of CCP, Parted Ways, and CoP (currently a WIP...three more fights to do then it's completed).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 24, 2011, 11:06:22 AM
Quite a few team submissions I've seen over the last couple of days

I apologize for not putting up some arena vids for a few days, been busy with RL stuff and my week is filled with work :/

I will resume arena vids this weekend. Thank you everyone for your interaction and support and most of all your patience
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Mando on August 26, 2011, 03:45:48 AM
Here is a vid I did of Arena 131 Eternal vs Me
Sorry I messed up on the vid. Start of round 2 music is too loud. So lower your volume.

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 26, 2011, 01:22:10 PM
(People need to stop leaving secondary spaces blank for the sake of those who are kind enough to do videos for us. It's especially ridiculous given that pretty much every single unit that this has occurred on has had an ability from another class that could have easily taken up that space. No one's Mastering classes or anything, so there's really no damn excuse not to just have an secondary in that space even if it's completely empty.

SO DO IT OR I'LL FIND A WAY TO MAIM YOU. THANKS.
)

So, outside of Mando's video above, which I'll get around to once I finish typing this, I've caught up after being gone for a week. Thanks for all the videos, Barren, zxpr0jk and Wiz--I finished watching that 4 hour and 30 minute video three days ago, but for some reason it wouldn't let me comment until yesterday. I'll comment on those videos in my next post (probably--I'll be going off memory, which is "bad".)

Anyway, sorry about that "Someday, A Wave" team, everyone. I wanted to "prove" how lackluster a Water Absorb team would have been in 130, but, by Poseidon, that was horrible, especially given that I over for about 11 days since I was gone for a bit. I would try to redeem it, but given the changes to 131 with regards to Ribbons, Monks losing Poles, Leather Mantle and the only new Water absorption being the Clothes of Rubber Costume (with no new Water ability), Water Absorption managed to get even worse, slight (needless) buff to Suiton aside.

But enough kvetching, for Team "Hirosu"--pronounced "Heroes"--is here to save you! Or kill you. It's roughly the same thing to me, so....

Speaking of which, since "people" (read: the three people above that have been doing videos with FFMaster and pokeytax busy) keep asking about how to pronounce the Ninjutsu stuff, I figure I'd give a pronunciation key, especially since for some reason, the Ninjutsu-pronounce makes me want to strangle people here; no, I hate Naruto (they're not ninja, anyway), so that's not the reason. I might as well do Draw Out as well, though the only one that people get wrong constantly is Murasame and for some reason I don't care about that despite being a picky bastard.


So, provided I didn't fuck up, now you know. And knowing is half the battle!

The other half?

Killing. Lots and lots of killing.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Mando on August 26, 2011, 03:41:54 PM
Actually Haku Korosu isn't worth setting. I tested in a video that failed to save vs ET's team. I built a fully blinding team with 2 ninjas and they refused to use the skill to kill off the target I think they would have used it, if the ability was sleep based again.

Doku No Kyoukai  - I will debut a video with this. I liked this in 130 but couldn't find an effective way to use it w/o being owned hard... now you will see the power it has
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 26, 2011, 06:27:23 PM
(I hadn't realized how many people had updated their teams until after that last post.)

It seems a bit early to take a break from what I'm doing, but, eh. I might as well do it now before I forget, especially given that I'm going off memory here was it is.

...And just like that, I forgetting things already. Shit.

Voila! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5v1ET5OxUE)

Note: No music nor in-game sounds, so I suggest you grab some music (if you want to) and require you to make Popcorn :mrgreen:

Ick. Popcorn. I just multi-tasked while watching it.

Anyway, thanks for this. It made me realize how little damage my teams tend to do overall and I had forgotten about some stuff I'd already "tested", like Fujin's Preach. The little damage thing is probably the reason that only "Gravity, Well" managed to win (outside of that lucky reset where the Mime decided to face the opponent rather than the wall before that Demi 2 went off).

As for who "Iris" is Death Corps-wise, it's the name in Embargo I've given to the female Monk that informs Wiegraf that Miluda is dead before the Windmill Shed battle. She'll have at least a minor role before that given that I've decided to give her a fixed name at all.

Damned's Grand Cross Monk was awesome.

Yet, like in-game, Golgoras was ultimately ineffectual. Profound sadness.

It's CT5Holy night.

Eternal248(Fisticuffs) VS CT5Holy(Do Not Disturb)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezJdSfBHtA)

CT5Holy(Standstills) VS Eternal248(Longshots)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bdusw3NieU)

CT5Holy(Do Not Disturb) VS Zxpr0jk(Toros)  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQJngX736sE) *warning: contains considerable wiz spam. If that pisses you off, then you probably aren't going to like this video.

Hunh. I don't recall being aware that just walking on Zigolis Swamp's water will poison you. Interesting to note.

Also, it's nice to see what I think was the very first Lava Ball Instant-Death proc of ARENA ever in that third video at the Graveyard of Airships, not that it was needed though with 4 CT Wiznaibus being such a (fickle) beast.

Kalas (The Fornier Sisters) vs Zaen (Debuffapalooza) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BVlpmKWtnw&fmt=18)

Ugh, that was painful to watch. You really need to give this team slightly more killing power, Zaen. [/hypocrisy]

I think Kalas would have (eventually) won, at least if he hadn't given his Thief Throw Stone and/or the AI wasn't desynced in speed so as to prevent Bad Luck from (maybe) going before the Ninja moved, but...yeah, he's new, so that's forgiven. Regardless, no need to put yourself through that.

Actually Haku Korosu isn't worth setting. I tested in a video that failed to save vs ET's team. I built a fully blinding team with 2 ninjas and they refused to use the skill to kill off the target I think they would have used it, if the ability was sleep based again.

They won't use when it's triggered by Sleep, at least in if Dol's Haku Hunt Dancer unit on Rare Skills was any indication. In all instances, she chose to use Kagesougi over Haku Dorosu, though that was back when Haku Dorosu didn't instantly kill and HP totals were overall lower. So maybe it was the damage in that case instead of the AI being stupid or the AI Behavior toggles having some issues--then again, I don't think I'll ever bet against the AI just being stupid.

Were the units that were Blinded ones that the Ninja could OHKO otherwise? It doesn't seem like that should be case, but only two of the Lancers on Eternal's Guingir team have HP above 250, so it's possble. Also, what equipment did you have on said units?

Regardless, I shall take this as a personal challenge and endeavor to "break" Haku Dorosu; of course, knowing my incompetence, Haku Dorosu might just end up like Quickening where it seems "meh" for a couple of updates and then overpowers everything--not that I ever recall using Quickening (at least when it first arrived).

Doku No Kyoukai  - I will debut a video with this. I liked this in 130 but couldn't find an effective way to use it w/o being owned hard... now you will see the power it has.

*pictures you powering up for nine episodes*

As for Doku no Kyoukai, people have actually used it quite a bit already--I think I've used it on like all my characters with Ninjutsu. So I think people are aware of the power it has, even if it tends to hit less than it seems like it "should" due to Separate. It's just that it's become more powerful now due to all the status blocking being on less things (that people innately have accessed to) and that it actually works on Mimes now.

Regardless, I shall look forward to this "true power".
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Mando on August 26, 2011, 06:37:08 PM
Me v Pride

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 26, 2011, 08:49:46 PM
(Oh, White Wind. You and your need for ridiculously strict parameters so as to not end up being a broken POS....)

I'm just going to re-post what I just posted on Youtube, with additional stuff that I had intended to type but couldn't because of its word limit.

"(Eminem is still relevant? Color me surprised.)

Hmm, it looks like Draw Out is working properly here. Odd.

Anyway, to answer your questions:

1. The Ninjutsu-Faith thing happens not because of an ASM, but because of an old bug from vanilla that has Un-Truth formula interpret Faith status as 00 Faith instead of 100 Faith as it should. FFMaster didn't fix even though Pride, ironically, made an ASM that does a while ago. CT5Holy's Watermark team abuses to already. (There's a reason Nemeshisu has both access to Innocent and Faith status on my "Hirosu" team.)

2. Your Thief used Heretic. Congrats on being the first person to have it used. (I have to wonder if the computer will only use if they're about to be killed by spell or if they'll use it when they would otherwise be afflicted by something detrimental or even only if "bored" with nothing else to do.)"

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have work to catch up on.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Mando on August 26, 2011, 09:28:03 PM
I had forgotten I gave him heretic XD

Ya I found out about the faith thing later. I made a new team with berserk paladins to use it XD and a squire to capitalize on it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on August 26, 2011, 10:19:09 PM
FFT Arena MADNESS 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yARdE9Acj0Y&fmt=18)

Last Arena vid I'll be doing for quite awhile. Chances are, I won't be making any more teams for an extended period of time as well as be active here, so just giving y'all a heads up ahead of time. Ciao.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on August 27, 2011, 12:31:27 AM
Just a heads up, the Untruth bug was fixed already. So Faith = 100 and Innocent = 0 for the Ninjitsu spells.

EDIT: Pride's hack actually didn't do anything, but it has now been fixed for next version.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: st4rw4k3r on August 27, 2011, 06:51:12 AM
Sunarst4r Vs Mando


Great battle Mando.

Sorry if its too fast, I had to make the video go 3 times faster, because the original video was 1 hour long. Now its 20 minutes, but still 1.11 gbs.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 27, 2011, 01:08:22 PM
Real life has been quite demanding and traumatic as of late, so I may or may not post more videos. I haven't been keeping up with the goings on in Arena. I don't even know if 131 is out yet as of this post.

In regards to the pronunciation of ninjitsu, I don't think I've said any of them other than shuriken. The extent to my descriptions of the ninja skills is "I think that's the fire one and that one's yellow so I think it's lightning" I pretty much just call them as 'element' ninjitsu unless it's shuriken. And yea, the missing text entries are a considerable reason for that.

And if I ran any games with units that didn't have a second skillset(I think there were two), the owner may want to review those games. I didn't know not having a secondary set caused problems. I thought everyone was being saved correctly, and still think they were. If you'd really like to help, don't add extra spaces in your entries between your movement skill and first hand weapon. I just copy and paste the first chunk of players and one Bard almost slipped by with body armor in his Acc, and a hat for underwear.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: st4rw4k3r on August 27, 2011, 09:04:57 PM

Me Vs. Mando Battle 2.

Good fight again Mando. I'll be editing my team up again. Awaiting our next fight.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on August 27, 2011, 09:38:44 PM
Innocent is 0 for Ninjitsu? That sounds a bit insane. Heretic Ring Monk Ninjitsu of 14 or 16 PA giving 117-235 or 134-268 (70-40 faith) or double Innocent for 392 or 448. Would need a tanky Gokuu Rod person for that to happen. EDIT: I mean, Faith would do the same, but Innocent is much more lethal when put on enemies usually.

EDIT EDIT: Nameless Song still never used? So sad... I'll just ditch it from my Mime team.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 29, 2011, 12:55:27 AM
Pierce (Weekenders) vs Dol (Heartbreakers) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPUceCS2g6k)

Barren (Deep Dungeon) vs Mando (Y) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y58XAUKkymg)

Pride (Gentle Spark) vs CT5Holy (Rage on a Stick) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeJfPtNcXP4)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 29, 2011, 04:05:57 AM
(The "problem" has been rectified, Barren, though like I said, I literally "double-checked" a dozen times and it was exactly 3000 JP, not 3200 JP. Something might be wrong with the spreadsheet. FFMaster!)

So, yeah, I updated like five times to 131 standards--well, four if I don't count "Hirosu" again due to the above. I'll try to do the rest of them later (if so possible), even the two that have been retired forever because they sucked even more than usual.

Dol "took" my all Charm-based team though. Sadface.

Innocent is 0 for Ninjitsu? That sounds a bit insane. Heretic Ring Monk Ninjitsu of 14 or 16 PA giving 117-235 or 134-268 (70-40 faith) or double Innocent for 392 or 448. Would need a tanky Gokuu Rod person for that to happen. EDIT: I mean, Faith would do the same, but Innocent is much more lethal when put on enemies usually.

Innocent is 0 Faith for everything, so yes.

I'm just expecting some Gokuu Rod abuse to take place, eventually, though I guess people have decided to just skip that go for instant-killing people twice over with Two-Handed poles.

EDIT EDIT: Nameless Song still never used? So sad... I'll just ditch it from my Mime team.

Nameless Song is probably flagged as Random under the AI Behavior, meaning the AI will almost never use it.

Pierce (Weekenders) vs Dol (Heartbreakers) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPUceCS2g6k)

Barren (Deep Dungeon) vs Mando (Y) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y58XAUKkymg)

Pride (Gentle Spark) vs CT5Holy (Rage on a Stick) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeJfPtNcXP4)

I'm just going to quote I said on the last video here because of a couple of things that need to be addressed.

"Wait. People are still leaving their secondary skill slots empty even though they're using out-of-class RSMs?

*turns head slowly to give CT5Holy a death-glare*

@SkipSandwich: Berserk shouldn't be interfering with spell procs as far as I'm aware. It's not like the user of the weapon is the one actually casting the spell after all, at least when it comes to using MP. It probably just got left out like how Ancient Sword did in 130 (and probably all patches previous). FFMaster!

*shakes fist*"

Other than that, Ninjutsu, Nameless Song, Two Hands and the Gastrafitis/Gastraphetes are living up to my worried expectations of them. Hmm....
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: CT5Holy on August 29, 2011, 05:14:48 AM
1. D: no Dia proc on Berserk TM.
2. How did the Thief dodge the Scorpion Tail hit? Flails are WP*WP -> 100% accuracy, right?
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: zxpr0jk on August 29, 2011, 05:23:17 AM
I love the addition of a co-caster. I've wanted to do that myself, so if anyone wants to do that, hit me up.

I'm still reading over the 131 changes, so I may put up a couple vids a week from now. I've already seen two teams with twohanded poles. Have I started something? Haha. Whale Whiskered Scholars using 108's and two hands? 400 damage pokes(and a monstrous bio). :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on August 29, 2011, 05:54:16 AM
Quote from: The Damned
Nameless Song is probably flagged as Random under the AI Behavior, meaning the AI will almost never use it.

Nah, I checked. No Random flag. It's just a skill the AI never uses :(... oh well, more JP for my bard.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on August 29, 2011, 05:54:59 AM
Yeah, many bugs. Expect 132 within a few hours.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Squidgy on August 29, 2011, 09:02:01 AM
But nothing about Nameless Song in the notes? Just revert the flag to normal, 'cause 1.3's AI tournament had it working. EDIT: Normal = Random.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pride on August 29, 2011, 11:00:47 AM
1. D: no Dia proc on Berserk TM.
2. How did the Thief dodge the Scorpion Tail hit? Flails are WP*WP -> 100% accuracy, right?

I'm almost certain ffmaster is using a new created asm that takes away that property from wp*wp formulas (it merges WP * WP into formula 1 so it also removes the zodiac glitches from guns)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on August 29, 2011, 12:03:13 PM
It was a side effect of using fdc's formula hack and doing things too quickly like I usually do. What I did was change Guns/Flails to use Formula 1 by accident. 132 has reverted the changes though.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on August 29, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
(Okay, so the teams I just updated yesterday have been updated again. I suppose it's a good thing I waited on those other five teams.)

So, even though it seems a bit sudden for another all new patch already instead of like 131B or something, I have to say that I'm liking all those changes--to be frank, PA-Bracelets with high multipliers that couldn't be dodged despite firing half of the time were a horrible idea--except Squire losing Shields and Equip Shield to Geomancer of all things. Shields aren't really what made Squires so powerful (before) and Equip Shield going to a class that already has excellent RSMs seems a bit...odd/silly. I could have understood one or the other, but not both.

Oh well. It just means Ghost Rider lost a Shield and Firebrand had enough JP to get Lava Ball.

2. How did the Thief dodge the Scorpion Tail hit? Flails are WP*WP -> 100% accuracy, right?

*is really tempted to make a Smooth Criminal joke considering everything else that Thief dodged*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 31, 2011, 12:06:56 PM
Pierce (Weekenders) vs st4rw4k3r (4 Letters) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cDEgVSuDTo)

RavenOfRazgriz (Y U SO DERP) vs Eternal248 (Tri-Attack) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdEah2h-ds)

Angelus (The Norm Team) vs Barren (Deep Dungeon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwdEQqLrAkA)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on August 31, 2011, 01:04:27 PM
Status looks like the new strategy for this metagame from these initial battles. Gotta prepare for it.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on August 31, 2011, 07:30:36 PM
Vigilanti (I Kin Hurt You!) vs Pride (Gentle Spark) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PjyQNpf-EM)

CT5Holy (Watermark) vs Dol (I hate Zalmo) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3HXbWs2DA)

True Light (Vanilla) vs The Damned (Hirosu) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsLIPzouC2o)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 01, 2011, 12:46:03 AM

EDIT: Just updated my team some based on this match and some obvious derp things I did that needed fixing.  Auto Potion IS confirmed to be bugged and not trigger ever for some reason, though, as you can tell by looking at the Human Stats/Ability Discussions thread.  FFMaster's working on fixing it, though.  Until then, hello Counter Flood and free DPS/Statuses.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pierce on September 01, 2011, 01:26:17 AM
It should be noted that Auto Potion has yet to trigger in any matches. Not sure if this is a fixable bug, but perhaps something should be said about that in the Master Guide.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 02, 2011, 03:35:15 AM
(Thanks for the videos as ever, Barren. Slight note: You put an "o" on the end of Ando's name instead of another "u". It's "Bieffueffu" as in "BFF".)

Ugh. All updated all my teams except for the long-retired ones, but I figure I'll try to that later. I want at least one team using Iron Boot, though maybe I'll switch out Alia for Layer or something.

Oh, and as long as we're talking about item being wonky, RavenofRazgriz apparently noted last night that Echo Grass isn't on the spreadsheet or something. So if anyone who's doing videos could check for that, that would be "nifty" and such.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on September 02, 2011, 06:24:43 AM
Yeah, it doesn't appear in game either. This somehow fell through the radar like 10 times =/
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 03, 2011, 09:27:04 AM
Squidgy (Save Me) vs Eternal248 (Gungnir) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU3ATHlohLw)

Barren (Big Assault) vs Skip Sandwich (Magic Storm) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR586K0t1sg)

True Light (The Forgotten) vs Squidgy (Faithless Cowards) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhz1kGpI2ls)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 03, 2011, 11:24:51 PM
the new rods deal some quite respectable damage, but my team lacked the mobility and resilience to take advantage of it against barren's heavy hitters. Hopefully my Skip Skirmishers team will fare a little better
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on September 04, 2011, 03:39:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVwQcDDWgD8
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Skip Sandwich on September 04, 2011, 04:18:21 AM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 05, 2011, 09:07:06 PM
DomieV (Song and Dance and Punch) vs CT5Holy (Two Sword Proc Funsies) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6E8hHav4w)

CT5Holy (Rage on a Stick) vs The Damned (Someday, A Wave) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eixH-VVs0Pg)

Barren (Phantasy Star) vs Dol (Heartbreakers) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvBZnOGedo)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 06, 2011, 01:19:10 AM
(So, all my teams are updated to 132 standards. Now the only "left" to do around here is do the map thing. I'll "try" to finally get around to that tomorrow, though all know how "trying" works out [or doesn't].)

Thanks as ever, Barren. I'm still trying to clean up this computer, so we'll see if I can ever record...anything.

Yeah, it doesn't appear in game either. This somehow fell through the radar like 10 times =/

I can't say I'm really surprised. It's not like anyone ever had incentive to use Silence before this, so I can't remember anyone ever bothering to buy Echo Grass (or, at least, to see it get used).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVwQcDDWgD8

Ugh. I'm surprised someone didn't use some variation on that thing a while ago.

Anyway, Lore spamming and Iron Boots seems rather...counter to all that Charm.

DomieV (Song and Dance and Punch) vs CT5Holy (Two Sword Proc Funsies) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6E8hHav4w)

CT5Holy (Rage on a Stick) vs The Damned (Someday, A Wave) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eixH-VVs0Pg)

Barren (Phantasy Star) vs Dol (Heartbreakers) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvBZnOGedo)

Nice to see the computer actually do intelligent things for once in all these videos such as Golgaros Chakra himself almost solely to recover MP and that Mime's and Bard's positioning for Protect. Of course, it's like it tries to rectify that by immediately doing something questionable right after or before, like moving in front of said Mime to try a simple strike that would miss and getting hit (even if only for 1 HP) instead of just using Repeating Fist again. Sigh. The AI....

Also, Water-Absorb really needs something if that's the best options it has, Miluda's stupidity with Dia aside. I might just "steal" Dol's Heartbreakers team design since I was going to do a Charm-based team anyway.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 06, 2011, 08:10:14 AM
...How the hell did someone only take 1 HP damage?

...I'm pretty damn sure that's outright impossible even if you have only 1 PA, unless you have Worst Compat, Defense UP, Protect and at least one of the units has under 65 Fury.  9*.66=5*.66=3*.75=2*.95-=1.

Soerm, how the fuck?  @_@
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: FFMaster on September 06, 2011, 08:21:26 AM
I honestly have no idea. Never even seen this bug before, guess I'll mess around a bit with Mimes.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 09, 2011, 05:00:36 AM
Squidgy (My First Mime) vs Mando (Facial Reconstruction) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjuS0LTQVxc)

The Damned (Gravity, Well) vs Dol (Holy AoE Batman!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y84jeaBVjQ4)

CT5Holy (Blanket) vs True Light (Princesses of Nightmares) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC2CfBtlgw8)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 11, 2011, 07:57:06 PM
Eternal248 (Ragtags) vs Malroth (First Strike) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8dYc4aGqLY)

Barren (Deep Dungeon) vs The Damned (Teach Me, Ms.Edea) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUqR7FS8zOA)

RavenOfRazgriz (Y U SO DERP) vs Vigilanti (I Kin Hurt You!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSo3dTCku_Q)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 11, 2011, 09:40:09 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 12, 2011, 08:19:01 AM
(Fuck. I still need to do that post in the map thread. Ugh. I could technically start to do it now or later today, but I have other things I need to do. I'll try to do it tomorrow. [/broken promises])

Thanks again, Barren, especially for informing me of the obvious problem with Raijin. I'll fix that in my team post when I change it next. I kinda still want to make another team or two just to have an even twelve, but that can wait.

Regardless, yeah, as I said on Youtube, I rather agree that Salty Rage doesn't really seem worth building around still, if only because the AI still reads Berserk as a negative status and thus you can't ever use anything that cures Berserk or else your other units will pull a Fighter and "help" the Salty Raged unit to calm the hell down. I do have an idea about how to use it, but it involves using Chemists. Sigh.


I think it's less a problem of being unable to hurt you, tanky-ass Chemists aside, and the fact that pretty much no one is protecting themselves against Nameless Dance despite the fact that the great restriction of status protection makes it OP now, arguably almost broken.

I mean, a source of Stop that hits the entire map, that can't be reflected, that can't be dodged, that can't be countered and that has a greater chance of hitting than the Stop spell itself--it's like FFVII's Freeze spell all over again--for a sixth of the cost? Yes please.

That it also causes Silence when mages pretty much have to wear Magic Ring or spend 850 JP on Equip Armor just to protect against it (while losing out on a good deal of MP & Short Charge or Magic Attack UP or a more useful Support) if they want to be useful is just icing on the cake, especially since Echo Grass doesn't even exist.

I'm not going to say that I have a team that's capable of beating you, but I'd be tempted to see how a team that can get around Stop, like my Hirosu team, would do. You'd probably still win, but at least my units would get to do something (getting hit by all instances of Don't Act due to my shitty luck aside).
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Vigilanti on September 12, 2011, 11:20:23 AM
GG To you to Raven, I never expected to be dominated by your tanky chemists >_<

I thought I had a chance with a Demi 2 but unfortunately that silence on my priest and stop onto my time mage is what made my heart sank

But overall, it was fun facing you when I did, gotta come up with a new team soon.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 12, 2011, 11:56:06 AM
I mean, a source of Stop that hits the entire map, that can't be reflected, that can't be dodged, that can't be countered and that has a greater chance of hitting than the Stop spell itself--it's like FFVII's Freeze spell all over again--for a sixth of the cost? Yes please.

That it also causes Silence when mages pretty much have to wear Magic Ring or spend 850 JP on Equip Armor just to protect against it (while losing out on a good deal of MP & Short Charge or Magic Attack UP or a more useful Support) if they want to be useful is just icing on the cake, especially since Echo Grass doesn't even exist.

It's less the hit percent (though that makes it far better), and more that the tanky Chemists can enforce the law of inevitability.  There were a lot of Nameless Dances there that didn't anyone, or only hit a single unit with Darkness status, etc.  Like Barren said in his videos - unless you're immune, it's going to happen, and once it does I'm just going to push because this team is technically very aggro, if only through Blackmail and Death Sentence combos.

As for Echo Grass being MIA, that hurts me a lot more than it hurts anyone else, and my Auto Potion is still MIA too.  I think I could even beat Mando's team with a decent consistency once Auto Potion and Echo Grass are fixed and something is done with the Brokenji Armor, and he's probably the closest team to a hard-counter there is.  (As it stands, he obliterates me almost every time through double Battle Song, high base damage, no element usage, and immunity or irrelevance to everything I do but Stop and Poison combined with the ability to fire off Silences of his own on my Chemists, but Auto Potion and Echo Grass are the great equalizers, so to speak.  If all else fails, I may need to find a way to force Mimic Daravon onto my Chemists to deal with him, though... either that, or actually optimize to something else instead of Chemists that I can make both tankier and have a wider status pool, but I like my tanky Chemists.)

I'm not going to say that I have a team that's capable of beating you, but I'd be tempted to see how a team that can get around Stop, like my Hirosu team, would do. You'd probably still win, but at least my units would get to do something (getting hit by all instances of Don't Act due to my shitty luck aside).

*waits for Barren to consider this a challenge.

GG To you to Raven, I never expected to be dominated by your tanky chemists >_<

I thought I had a chance with a Demi 2 but unfortunately that silence on my priest and stop onto my time mage is what made my heart sank

But overall, it was fun facing you when I did, gotta come up with a new team soon.

I'll admit, that 444 damage Demi 2 made me shit a brick, especially when I saw my clumped starting formation the second match.  I was almost expecting that to be a 2 minute wipe into a game 3 because I got ruined by an early Demi 2, I'll be honest.  My Chemistsdid their job of keeping your units as far away from the Dancers as possible so it never got to play a factor though, thankfully for me.  Your Monk didn't seem to know Revive, which might've at least given you a chance for a comeback.  Dunno though, since he was starting to get worn down to shit by Polka Polka along with your Thief and my Dancers aren't afraid to start hazing your Speed instead.  Them Demi 2s, though... scary things those are, I hadn't accounted for the fact my Dancers could be oneshot by it with my move over to P Bag... this may require addressing when I update my team, because that's honestly kind of scary if it gets to play a factor too early in the match.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on September 12, 2011, 03:47:58 PM
There needs to be a Robe with Immune: Silence and Berserk possibly coupled with an elemental weakness for balance purposes,  the exclusivity of ribbions and restriction of status immunities to heavy armour is crippling to casters ATM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 13, 2011, 09:06:57 PM
(I'll get to maps! I swear! Again....)

Yeah, there probably needs to be a Robe or, at least, another accessory that Blocks: Silence.

It's less the hit percent (though that makes it far better), and more that the tanky Chemists can enforce the law of inevitability.  There were a lot of Nameless Dances there that didn't anyone, or only hit a single unit with Darkness status, etc.  Like Barren said in his videos - unless you're immune, it's going to happen, and once it does I'm just going to push because this team is technically very aggro, if only through Blackmail and Death Sentence combos.

The inevitability is more what I mean, especially given that it's not like Nameless Dance ONLY causes Stop or then it would undeniably broken.

As for Echo Grass being MIA, that hurts me a lot more than it hurts anyone else, and my Auto Potion is still MIA too.

Hmm..., that's true, I suppose. Not that I was saying that Echo Grass being gone doesn't hurt you; I was only saying that it makes Silence all the more painful considering there's now only one thing that mages can equip innately to guard against it and only two mages per team can equip it.

I think I could even beat Mando's team with a decent consistency once Auto Potion and Echo Grass are fixed and something is done with the Brokenji Armor, and he's probably the closest team to a hard-counter there is.

Perhaps. I rather like that such a passive team is managing to destroy people without spamming something I think is obviously broken like Quickening--although that too needed to be shown, so....

I chuckled mentally a bit since I had to look up Genji Armor to see what you were talking about. Oddly, despite how good it seems now, I honestly haven't thought about using it once. I guess I just like preventing stuff more.

*waits for Barren to consider this a challenge.

*waits to get ass kicked like whenever he fights CT5Holy*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 14, 2011, 07:28:02 PM
Squidgy (Dark Secret Love) vs Skip Sandwich (You Can't Beat Airman) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTK4dVCPxkQ)

Barren (Deep Dungeon) vs True Light (Burning Havoc) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBmvOWZHOiY)

RavenOfRazgriz (Y U SO DERP) vs The Damned (Hirosu) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW6Rdsr1Sw8)

Skip Sandwich (Skip Skirimishers) vs True Light (Vanilla) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUoCCjCfUkM)

st4rw4k3r (4 Letters) vs Barren (Phantasy Star) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w58WmcQikt0)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 14, 2011, 08:49:25 PM
(Note to self: Edit with commentary vs other shit tomorrow when I actually can watch them.)

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 14, 2011, 08:57:33 PM
Well considering Raven that yes the echo grass not being in the spreadsheet hampers your team a little bit and yea The Damned's team cant kill your chemists regardless. Unless The Damned can counter argue then I guess you make a solid case that you had the upper hand most of the time so I guess I can declare you the winner
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 15, 2011, 01:23:18 AM
(*is currently still watching the videos*)

I actually have a strong counter-argument: You used the older version of my team, which affects things rather greatly, Barren. Nemeshisu shouldn't have Hidden Knifes at all (because Transparent interferes with Witch Hunt, as you can see), Hiro doesn't have Balance anymore and Bieffueffu Ando & Furain Man actually have reactions that work, among other things.

So...yeah. Please do that over again if you don't mind, unless it runs as long. I still doubt that I'll be able to beat Raven, but I want to lose with a version of my team that actually works.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 15, 2011, 12:22:06 PM
I still doubt that I'll be able to beat Raven, but I want to lose with a version of my team that actually works.

It'll probably still run long because Bizen Boat's silly when Echo Grass doesn't exist, and I think the only difference from your posted team and the one in the video that'll even come close to mattering is your Samurai having Demi 2 to kill my Dancers with since those Stops are pretty much never going to hit.

I'm not opposed to a rematch though if you want it since that team's been updated for at least 10 days now and really had no reason to not be correct, but I don't think it'll change the outcome at all unless Barren skews things horribly by picking Maps like the Wooden Shed 3 times in a row on purpose (lol) and your Samurai gets double-killing Demi 2s.  I was just pointing out that I have my team made to intentionally handle and win matches like ours where nothing else gives, because I'm aware of the raw defense I can muster even if my primary strategy is to end the game as soon as Death Sentence will allow.  :p
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 15, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
RavenOfRazgriz vs The Damned rematch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87e-AlU4n-Q)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 15, 2011, 02:34:24 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 15, 2011, 03:45:49 PM
Don't worry about it Raven, I was already thinking that you won mostly due to the fact that there's reliable sandbag power on your team and the Damned's team didn't follow up on the Demi 2 kill (which to me is your only weakness) so far. Plus if I let it go longer than I let it you would have eventually ware down Damned's team to the point where they would have 1 PA and 1 SPD then you would have lol'd them with bag smacks

But yea, I do agree with you in that if echo grass was in the spread sheet(which by conspicuous means its not) then you would have ended it quicker than normal IMO

But I do appreciate the thought of it though because I just woke up and did that rematch...lol but really man its okay...we can already agree that your team is frightening and can beat a lot of other teams
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 16, 2011, 04:46:45 AM
(I just realized one of the teams I wanted to make is technically impossible because Stone Gun should cancel Salty Rage's now initial status. Profound sadness.)

Yeah, you definitely deserve a written apology for that, Barren. Especially since I could have made it so my team won even despite Daphne/Nemeshisu's utter stupidity if I hadn't given Nathan the gun. Given that Echo Grass does hurt Raven a hell of a lot more than me, he would have probably been able to Battle Sing enough the point where I could actually start to hurt Raven's units, especially since I don't think I ever got a critical in that match as opposed to the worse team match.

I agree that Raven won both sets, but I expected him too anyway, especially since most of teams aren't really damage-oriented teams--I was more trying to see how much of a difference him being able Stop units with Nameless Dance did, which was not much. Just like their live action counterparts, Team Hirosu is a bunch of losers.

Echo Grass needs to be fixed, regardless, and Nameless Dance arguably still needs to lose its ability to Stop, especially if 70 Faith Stop on 40 Faith units (optimal or not) is that abysmal that it's 37%.

Thanks again, though. No need to push yourself so much posting videos. You'll burn yourself out. Take a break please.

I'm trying to clean my computer still--I'll explain in the Embargo thread why that's taking so damn long--and I hope that maybe when I have it cleaned, it actually run things and I can maybe help out with recording (even if I've never done that before and wouldn't have vocal commentary).

*goes off to work on Embargo*
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 16, 2011, 08:48:01 AM
Echo Grass needs to be fixed, regardless, and Nameless Dance arguably still needs to lose its ability to Stop, especially if 70 Faith Stop on 40 Faith units (optimal or not) is that abysmal that it's 37%.

They've also got Unyielding going, so I'm sure that's also ruining your chance to hit, as well as the Shell on my Dancers.  It's still funny you say that though, because I just beefed up Y U SO DERP to deal with the missing Echo Grass and a few other things, and ended up dropping Nameless Dance entirely, as well as covering that whole Demi 2 issue.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on September 19, 2011, 06:21:03 AM
Thanks to Raven I managed to get a memory card with my first strike team vs several others and ran several matches. I haven't set up any recording software yet But here's the anylisis of the matches i've run so far.


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 19, 2011, 06:02:19 PM
RavenOfRazgriz (Y U SO DERP) vs Mando (Facial Reconstruction) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJyiid3KIkU)

Mando (Facial Reconstruction) vs Eternal248 (Boom Boom Shake Da Floor!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSFc3dPH47c)

Dol (Ladies) vs The Damned (Namastayalive) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u10EktyNFLw)

Barren (Big Assault) vs Pierce (The Weekenders) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZWvJW4apT8)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 19, 2011, 06:40:29 PM
Watching the others right now, but:


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 19, 2011, 07:29:35 PM
I can make the rematch for you Raven tomorrow. My bad on missing DERP's witch hunt
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on September 19, 2011, 07:37:28 PM
Yes nothing can tank a berserk 2 handed samurai, but it only has minimum speed, minimum movement and can only attack at a 1 panel range with no defensive gear or skills and max fury,  its literally the definition of a glass cannon just as your team is the definition of the unbreakable Wall.  I'd say at this point battle song's presence or absence is largely redundant  that samurai Is going to kill whatever is dumb enough to be within 3 panels of it during its turn regardless and the extra Patk only serves to make the huge numbers become even more nedlessly huge.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 19, 2011, 07:54:10 PM
I can make the rematch for you Raven tomorrow. My bad on missing DERP's witch hunt

It's cool.  I wouldn't even ask for the rematch but it can have a huge effect on who wins, depending on how other factors in the match go.

Yes nothing can tank a berserk 2 handed samurai, but it only has minimum speed, minimum movement and can only attack at a 1 panel range with no defensive gear or skills and max fury,  its literally the definition of a glass cannon just as your team is the definition of the unbreakable Wall.  I'd say at this point battle song's presence or absence is largely redundant  that samurai Is going to kill whatever is dumb enough to be within 3 panels of it during its turn regardless and the extra Patk only serves to make the huge numbers become even more nedlessly huge.

In terms of vs. me, you're honestly very, very wrong.  Without any Battle Songs, Mando's Samurai and Archer together can only put a Chemist into Critical, and a knifewhack is needed to finish the job.  A single Battle Song buffs the damage on Mando's Samurai by about 30, after all his multipliers and my Unyielding are factored in, and buffs the Archer by about 18.  (The Archer just has huge base WP from its crossbow and Attack UP.)  1-2 Battle Songs allow him to kill the Chemists easily as he begins breaking 300 damage, whereas he takes a few turns to do so without them.  Witch Hunt prevents more than a sum of 4 Battle Songs or so from going off, and Polka Polka offsets the ones that do, so it should be pretty clear why this makes a huge difference.  Landing a Death Sentence on that Samurai is also huge with all these factors, because it cuts his multiplier from being 4x to about 2.5x since Berserk is lost.  Etc.

For Facial Reconstruction vs. everyone else, the Battle Songs probably are only so useful, but when that Samurai and Archer begin dishing 400-450 out each, defensive oriented teams like Eternal's seemed to be that can't shrug off damage the way mine can just fold even harder.  Like you said, it's a glass cannon, and if you can't paralyze it, the only way to win is to kill it first.  I was commenting that Eternal can't do either, and I was missing a key tool in paralyzing when Barren recorded it, and not some random thing that wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Pierce on September 19, 2011, 08:34:20 PM

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 21, 2011, 09:58:35 PM
RavenOfRazgriz vs Mando Rematch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_5gMNl_dTk)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 21, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 22, 2011, 01:41:59 PM
Eternal248 (Boom Boom Shake Da FLoor!) vs True Light (D.N. Angel) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laJtGR0plGw)

The Damned (Promo) vs Vigilanti (Get On Status!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBPh2YvffQg)

Malroth (First Strike) vs CT5Holy (Do Not Disturb) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3JzRCmkPSA)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 22, 2011, 05:19:21 PM


Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on September 22, 2011, 06:15:01 PM
The reason I'm able to do consistent damage with Wizanabus and you aren't Is because Both it and Witch Hunt are based on PA and Fury, as well as being affected by Attack Up.That being said   I'm still not 100% sold on your use of Iron boots Dancers,  Have you concidered the possibility of Cacusha wearing female monks with a dance secondary?  They could serve as additinoal sources of death sentence as well as tanky healers/rez bots even if they were running minimum Fury.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 22, 2011, 06:45:00 PM
The reason I'm able to do consistent damage with Wizanabus and you aren't Is because Both it and Witch Hunt are based on PA and Fury, as well as being affected by Attack Up.That being said   I'm still not 100% sold on your use of Iron boots Dancers,  Have you concidered the possibility of Cacusha wearing female monks with a dance secondary?  They could serve as additinoal sources of death sentence as well as tanky healers/rez bots even if they were running minimum Fury.

Dance isn't affected by the Fury hack.  It does the same damage to every unit as long as the target doesn't have Unyielding or Defense UP.  You missed what I said - my damage is randomized, from 8-25.  The damage should always be consistent between the four targets you hit as long as they don't have a defensive support, which in my matchup vs Mando, none of his units do, and my damage changes between Witch Hunts on the same unit.  So trust me, there is something very, very wrong going on there, that wasn't present on my awful slapped together Wiznaibus Dancers in 1.30 that have the exact same stats.  Your Knight and Mime not exhibiting the same behavior is odd.

Not running Iron Boost reduces all defense by 33%, and there's no way in hell I'm doing that.  My latest update did give them Punch Art secondary with Secret Fist, Stigma Magic, Chakra, and Revive, so they have the ability to end games even after the Chemists go down now and can revive each other on any map they start adjacent on, etc.  Stigma Magic also cures Silence, meaning less pain about missing Echo Grass, and more awesome once Echo Grass is added back in.  I don't particularly need Cacuscha's buff either.  Ribbon is the only one I'd consider.  Base Monk HP and Ribbon means I get a bonus of 10 HP, but Monks also have 30 less MP and 2 less PA, meaning MP needs to be restored more often and Witch Hunt is weaker.  It does have an extra Speed point, though, and that and the Status defense makes switching the Primary and Secondary Jobs around somewhat appealing, but dropping down to 50/25 Chakras just seems beyond awful.  60/30 is bad enough as it is.  

The main thing is, with Finger Guard, Witch Hunt, 40 Faith, and Iron Boots, I don't really need any of Ribbon's status defenses besides Charm and maybe Frog, since Frog's on a couple weapons and Charm is the only one from a skill that I don't ruin the hit rate of via my defenses.  If I dislike this Punch Art variation, I'll probably go back to Dance/Item and test 4 Chemists because innate Throw Item is boss and the only decrement going from Chemist to Dancer is to PA - but it's 6 PA points, which does hurt Witch Hunt quite a big deal, and Witch Hunt is really important in the newer versions, more than I think people realize.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on September 23, 2011, 06:49:19 AM
The dance bug was created by an inadvertent error introduced when we changed it so abilities that weren't flagged as weapon strike or ranged weapon could use formula 01 (since before, they used to have 0 WP and defaulted to the fist formula).  Dancer actually uses the weapon formula + the vanilla state of fist formulas to get PA * Br% as XA.  However, since we removed that check, XA is now the XA of your formula.  Thus, Raven was doing random damage with his witch hunt dancers.

To fix this, apply the following.
BATTLE.BIN
Offset: 0x1223B8
8117060C

EDIT: Dancers now take the formula PA + Y instead of PA + WP.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 23, 2011, 11:31:40 AM
(Good thing to know with regards to Dances.)

Finally updated my team submission post. I think that's longest I've gone without updating it. Apologies for not seeing your PM earlier, Barren. I've been trying to get done with stuff with regards to Embargo and a few other things (to no avail, as ever).

Anyway, a new team there as a promised. As usual, it will probably flail about and accomplish nothing. As always, thanks for the videos.


I just have no luck in general, though of course it doesn't help that half of my teams suck and pretty much none of them do heavy damage outside of "Gravity, Well" and none of them focus on status since focusing on status before 1.31 was kinda...pointless & none of them are new. Well, were new.

I suppose it is extra ironic, though, since I'm pretty sure I overall try to protect against status the most out of everyone. It's just that Promo pretty much has no defenses against status and sucked--god, Firebrand was such a useless POS--so I got steamrolled, especially when you throw in my stubbornly horrible luck. (Yay at not getting a single Shuriken proc. I think that's literally a first for ARENA.)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 23, 2011, 01:56:24 PM
If it makes you feel any better, Shuriken didn't proc because something unrelated that got applied in 1.32 broke it, not because your luck is terrible.  Already fixed for 1.33, though.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 23, 2011, 07:23:41 PM
SoySauceMaster (JUMP AND GEO FTW) vs Celdia (Co-Ed Rat Pack) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gc5Ixdmb3I)

CT5Holy (Standstill) vs formerdeathcorps (B Team) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmwlV1FvU9U)

formerdeathcorps (A Team) vs formerdeathcorps (Season 5) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCVTiYyAqvg)

Viglanti (I Kin Hurt You!) vs Wiz (Chemists are better at dancing V1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Y2WpGg3Ds)
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Celdia on September 23, 2011, 07:58:33 PM
Barren, that music rocked. I'm glad someone caught the reference. ^_^
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 23, 2011, 08:07:21 PM
Barren, that music rocked. I'm glad someone caught the reference. ^_^

Of course Celdia :) my late grandfather used to listen to the rat pack way back in the day
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: SoySauceMaster on September 23, 2011, 08:26:42 PM
Barren, that music rocked. I'm glad someone caught the reference. ^_^

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Celdia on September 23, 2011, 08:32:36 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 23, 2011, 09:00:45 PM



Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Malroth on September 23, 2011, 09:07:52 PM
Black magic using Bard has more MA and HP than Male Wizard but otherwise I agree with raven with your team needing sing.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on September 23, 2011, 09:12:03 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Vigilanti on September 23, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
just changed my team again, thanks raven for the suggestion :D
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on September 23, 2011, 09:53:23 PM
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on September 23, 2011, 10:35:06 PM
lol, okay bro.  You found one of the 3 ways to beat Y U SO DERP, that only exists because Auto Potion's busted-ness doesn't allow me to run the setup I want to run.  Well done.

You did win that match because 1. Vigilanti's MP restoration sucked and 2. because Stop kicked in right when you needed it to, not because your team had inevitability.  He was more than capable of beating you in raw power v defense, which is demonstrated in all 3 matches.  His team is (was) just flawed, so it wasn't applying as much pressure as it could've, and Stop kicked in when you needed it to.  There's nothing wrong with that, I was just commenting your team needs more defense if you're trying to maintain inevitability.  I love how you get incredibly defensive as shit then try to quote being able to beat a wall that isn't even optimized through a combination of bugs and laziness with another wall like it proves I'm wrong in my observation on a match between a wall and a sledgehammer.  Hope that e-peen's nice and hard now, bro.

/thumbsup.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 24, 2011, 01:12:46 AM
Last 2 videos for Arena 1.32 before I do videos on 1.33

Malroth (VooDoo) vs Pierce (FireWater) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IZjgJlVnjI)

DomieV (Song and Dance and Punch) vs Angelus (The Norm Team) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fQsItAWtOk)

Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: The Damned on September 24, 2011, 01:29:19 AM
(1.33 is out already? Damn it. I wanted to comment in that thread after I came back from my walk. Oh well....)

As ever, thanks for the videos Barren.

However, if I may ask one thing--and this isn't to put you on the spot or because it makes me personally uncomfortable--of you, then would you to dial down on using "rape" so casually/often in your videos? FDC's absurd dps aside, the amount of times you said in that one video between his two teams alone was quite...a lot. I've noticed you do it a lot in general and thus I'm pretty sure it isn't intentional, much less malicious since you're a nicer person than I am, which is why I've never really said anything about it. I'm not exactly asking you stop saying it all anyway--censorship is bullshit in most instances; similarly, there's no need for a formal apology or anything (to me, at least).

That said, I can easily imagine that it might make some people who (would) otherwise enjoy your videos (really) uncomfortable, so I'm just throwing it out there for consideration. (I apologize if this is a bit too public of a request; I just felt it would be [slightly] better than PM'ing you since, again, it doesn't personally bother me and I'm not sure if anyone else is actually made uncomfortable by it.)

If it makes you feel any better, Shuriken didn't proc because something unrelated that got applied in 1.32 broke it, not because your luck is terrible.  Already fixed for 1.33, though.

It never makes me feel better!

*flips a table*

...I mean, good to know.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: formerdeathcorps on September 24, 2011, 04:47:54 AM
I hardly call my dps absurd either.  If my rivals include teams like Wiz, Raven, or Mando, I'd call it necessary.
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Barren on September 24, 2011, 09:21:49 AM
Well for the purposes of that word being controversial Damned I will tone it down like you asked so yea I'll use the word "rape" less often or even stop saying it all together...yes that word tends to be said in a non-literal sense but i can see where it can be a bit too much

I apologize to those who don't like hearing the word rape in advance considering there are I'm sure people out there who hate that word. So yes Damned, I'll fulfill your request of dialing it down for you and everyone else
Title: Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
Post by: Wiz on September 25, 2011, 07:34:28 AM