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General => Archives => Mercenaries => Topic started by: LastingDawn on July 30, 2010, 04:22:53 PM

Title: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on July 30, 2010, 04:22:53 PM
Synergy Skills

This set up is All thanks to Philsov with a bit of help from Mav! Each skillset is meant to work well with one another as well as compensating for what is missing in another. I think Philsov and Mav have done a great job splitting these! But let me know your thoughts on this arrangement as well.


Thanks goes to Philsov and Mav (and many others whose names I can't recall for the original skill ideas)for these wonderful skills!


Quote
Monk - Master of Internal Energy, also the starting point for all physical-ish jobs.  If you wanna know the basics, you start with yourself.  

Iconic skills:
Searing Salvation - clears the soul of impurities with holy fire.  Deals 15% HP damage, able to target self and allies.  (Self-only cleanse is worthless for most of the big ones, we need function here)
Chakra - melee-range, PA-based spirit exhertion damage!
(Secret Skill) - I don't think Demi Fist is fitting for the class, but we'll go back to these later.

Ramza:
Golden Hand - 5 range linear, instant, no MP - cancels Charging and Performing
Ogre Run - 2 range linear, instant, no MP - Earth ele damage + haste cancel proc.
Wave Fist - 2 range, single target.  Like the old one, only shorter range.
Pressure Point - PA*X (or MA*X?) damage with a 25% chance to Don't Act target.  1 range, 1-3CTR.
Meditate - Self-only regen, 100%.
Grid - Self only defend + protect

Rad:
Mage Bane Fist - melee range, small charge time, no MP - 25% MP damage
Turning Gust - self-AoE, instant, no MP.  - no ele damage + Float/Regen/Faith cancel proc.
Consuming Fist - PA-based damage with recoil.  2 range, 1 AoE.
Radiant Claw - 4 range, single target, CT, MP - artillery shot
Tranquility - Enemy-only.  Dispells all status effects on the user.  PA+X% success rate.
Brace - Self only defend + shell

~

Quote

Scryer - Supa-chemists!  Fine for now.  I probably want to change a rune or two but that's another step.  

~


Quote
Invoker - The black mage-like-class.  Features MA-but-not Fa-based damage with moderate status infliction in some cases.  Hosts the various elements.  I went with a dark/light split on Ramza + Rad.  Seems fitting, ability wise, though you may want to shuffle for thematics.

Iconics:
Explosion - MA * 5 (MA + 30%) Range 4, Effect Area 2, Vertical 2, MP 2 - The Invoker's most destructive spell, as well as the most inaccurate, from a distance the Invoker let's fly a large explosion
Metal (I'm really at a lost for this slot...) - MA * 2 (MA+90%), range 4, AoE 0, MP 1 - Invoker's most basic spell, manipulates the opponents equipment to deal them harm.
(Secret Skill - Blood Sin)

Ramza:
Dark chant - MA * 2 (MA + 65%) Range 2, Effect Area 0, Vertical 5, MP 2, chance to Inflict charm,
Poison  - Engulf - MA * 4 (MA + 60%) Range 2, Effect Area 1, Vertical 4, MP 2, Inflict Poison
Ice - Freeze - MA * 3 (MA + 40%) Range 4, Effect Area 1, Vertical 1, MP 2, Inflict Slow
Earth  - Tremor - MA * 3 (MA + 50%) Range 0, Effect Area 2, Vertical 0, MP 2
Poison + Earth = Rot - MA * 5 (MA + 45%), range 2, Effect Area 1, vertical 0, MP3.  Chance to inflict Undead or Death Sentence
Dark + Ice = White Death - MA * 4 (MA + 50%), range 3, Effect Area 2, Vert 2, MP3.  Inflicts Sleep.

Rad:
Light - Spirit Surge - MA * 5 (MA + 45%) Range 5, Effect Area 0, Vertical 3, MP 2, Inflict Confusion
Lit  - Shock - MA * 2 (MA + 70)%) Range 3, Effect Area 0, Vertical 10, MP 2, Inflict Stop or Don't Act or Don't Move
Fire - Burn - MA * 6 (MA + 50%) Range 3, Effect Area 1, Vertical 3, MP 2, Chance to inflict Haste
Wind - Gale - Dmg_Random(1...4)* MA (For now PA...) Range 4, Effect Area 4, Vertical 2, (linear attack), MP 2
Fire + Wind = Flash Fire.  MA * 4 (MA + 50%), range 4 linear, vert 2.  No status.
Lit + Light = Smite - MA * 6 (MA + 90%), Range 4, Effect Area 0.  Chance to inflict Dead.  

~


Quote
Cantor - Voice of Heaven.  Ramza and Rad given a good split on abilities, then gain a Cure-like spell each (Ramza with healing voice got an AoE, Rad got the opposite).  And I know you're going more for the vocal angle here, and I went more with the priesty angle, so feel free to change the names.  I like the abilities themselves though, nevermind the awesome bias.

Iconics:
Hymn of Life = Range self, AoE 1.  Revives!
Throe of Rebirth = single target, light CT, light MP.  Inflicts Reraise but harms unit for 25%.  Ally/self only.
(Mighty Prayer)

Ramza:
Healing Voice - 40% healing to a nearby target, triggering prayer status.  Instant.
Tumultuous Bellow - Range 0, AoE 1.  Success = 50% + MA;  Inflicts Berserk around the caster
Lethargic Psalm - Heals 65%, inflicts sleep and slow.  Very high success rate, ally only.
Anoint - Heals CFa * TFA * MA * 20;  range 4, AoE 1, moderate CT and MP.
Repent - Strips target of Innocent or Shell status, dealing 20% HP damage in the process.  
Sonnet to Faram - self-only, moderate CT, MP.  Success = ((CFa/100)^2) * (160+MA)) -- protect/shell/regen/faith

Rad:
Healing Breath - 20% healing for a large area, triggering prayer status.  Instant.
Insane Chant - Range 2, AoE 0.  Success = 40% + MA.  Light PA-based damage plus confusion infliction
Aria of Peace - Dispels Berserk and heals target for 25%.  Success = PA+125%.  
Bless - Heals CFa * TFa * MA * 25; range 4, AoE 0.  moderate CT and MP.
Penance - Inflicts Addle.  Success = MA + 60%, Range 2, AoE 0, instant, no MP.
Coronach to Lucavi - Formula (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 6) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm 6 (wtf?); Single Enemy - Berserk/Blind/Poison/Innocent (All)

~
Quote
Knights - got kicked out of both Holy and Dark knight school, kinda waffling around with both and willing to sacrifice their own well being to get the job done.

Iconics
Somber Drive - melee range, PA based.  Nasty damage with nasty recoil.
Battle Cry - Because Haste infliction ought to be shared <3
(Sanct Saber) -

Ramza
Abraxas - Good range (5?  Greater than xbow, imo), single target, 30% recoil, 15 MP.  PA-based damage.
Ironclad - self/ally only - inflicts protect, regen, and slow.  Moderate MP, instant.
Chaste Slice - low faith enemies suffer~.  14 MP, instant, weapon range.  MA-based???
Iai Strike - Moderate MP Cost, can only be used with certain weapon types. 50% Chance to -20 Br.
Final Sacrifice - Must be critical Sacrifice the last bit of your life force for a high damage sword strike.
Cimmerian Edge - A Dark Elemental Sword Strike

Rad
Nix = 50% chance to transform dead unit into a crystal - 30 MP, weapon range, small CT.
Transfusion = Range 0, AoE 1.  Heals surrounding units for 40% HP at the expense of 20% on the self.
Swiftness - 15 MP.  Unevadeable weapon strike (use ARH!  no guns).
Fanatic's Folly - Higher damage to Higher faith units.
Sacred Symbol - Holy Elemental Sword strike.
???

Quote
Travelers - Rhodes Scholar?  More like rogue scholar!  lololololololol.  Did a decent split, then mirrored up Pick Up Speed and gave them both cool little duo tricks.  Ramza gained Ghost Strike as Rad has the thing from Monk.

Iconics:
Steal Heart - (MA + 50%) Range 3, Single Target, Charm, CT 3, MP 25
Blow Leaves Dmg F_(MA * 5) 3 Range, 3 Area, 3 Vertical - MP 10
(?????) - (MA + 5%) Range 4, Area 3, Vertical 3, CT 5, MP 60 - Has a small chance to turn your foes into Treasures.

Rad:
Rust Helm - (PA + WP + 60%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 10
Rust Weapon - (PA + WP + 30) Range 3, Single Target, MP 18
Hide Away MA + 70% 3 Range, 3 Vertical, Single Target, CT 4 MP 10
Steal Exp -
Drop Down Speed - (Status 100%) 3 range, Target enemy, MP 16. With a quick incantation they apply slow to the foe.
Saved Time - Success = PA + 90%.  Cancels an ally's haste in order to heal them for ?50%?.

Ramza:
Rust Armor - (PA + WP + 40%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 12
Rust Shield - (PA + WP + 55%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 5
Ghost Strike - Dmg_MP * 5, Melee range, Single Range, MP 10
Steal Gil - CastLvl_SP 100% Hit - Field Wide, CT 2, MP 5
Pick Up Speed - (Status 100%) Target Self, MP 16, With a quick incantation they apply Haste to themselves.
Steal Time - Success = MA + 65% - Attempts to deal 50% damage to an already Slowed opponent.

~

Quote

Gambler - My life is a chip in your pile.  Ante up!

Iconics:
Darts -  Formula: 1F (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 0) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm - X Variable:10 - Y Variable: 0 - Range: 4 - Effect Area: 0 - Vertical: 1 - - CT: 2 - MP: 15
Jackpot - 50/50 chance to hurt or heal targets in range.  How is this getting rigged up?
(Shady Deal) - Steal Acc

Ramza:
Dice Off - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals light-moderate non-elemental magical damage 1-6 times randomly between the gambler and his target
Straight - Deals one of 5 status effects at 50% -- (Blind/Poison/Don't Move/Addle/Berserk)
Ace of Spades - Deals high damage, Low chance to cause instant death.
Double Down - Self + AoE 1.  ~75% chance to work with 50/50 Reraise/Don't Move
Roulette - Haste or Slow to everything in sight
Polarize - Innocent or Faith everything in sight

Rad:
Coin Toss - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals moderate-heavy non-elemental magical damage to either the Gambler or his target (only hits once, so 50-50 odds)
Three of a Kind - 3 range linear - PA-based damage with a chance to inflict ?????
Tantalize - MA+60% chance to inflict Stop. (we need less charm and confusion imo)
Drink Off - Self + AoE1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Sleep/Berserk
Moss Shroom - Poison or Regen to everything in sight
Dazzle - Blind or Protect to everything in sight (Defend and Blind might be more fitting, but def is too temp for blind)

~

Quote
Reliquian - Much like the Scryer, this chap is capped on available, so little will be added/split.  Tweaking may be needed, but later!

~
Quote
Blue Mage - Needs no description! (In the Interim of being changed)

Iconics
Choco Cure - Self AoE Curing
Drain Touch - MP damage and MP restoration all in one!
(Hurricane) - I think self-destruct is imba, but secret skills will be looked at after the status effect bit.  

Ramza
Eye gouge
Ice Breath
Triple Thunder
Spark
Calm Spirit
Not cat kick - ???

Rad
Mind Blast
Blaster
Blow Fire
Triple Attack
Wind Soul
Circle

~

Quote
Esperblade - Subjected to a paradigm shift.  The esperblades will only be able to summon Espers tied to their equipped weapon, thanks to ARH. There are 4 subgroups with 4 espers each, to the tune of:  Healing, Support, Elemental, and Non-elemental.  Highly specialized but highly effective.  All spells are Faith-based, and all spells in the elemental and non-elemental brances have a 100% chance to hit.  Also forgive me for imprinting summon functions from my own patch :3.

Healing
Moogle - Range 4. AoE 2 - Wide-area healing
Fairy - Range 4, AoE 0 - Revives target with 50% health (Raise, basically)
Leviathan - Range 3, AoE 2 - Regen infliction
Silf - Range 3, AoE 1 - Drains 15% HP from targets.  (does AoE drain work, at all?  Would be nice to siphon life from a large area, while keeping things balanced for boss fights coupled with the drain cap ASM)

Elemental - Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh do the same damage with the same MP cost.  Titan is stronger (same MP?) due to range issues.
Ifrit - Range 4, AoE 2, affects both enemies and allies.  Fire elemental.
Shiva - Range 6, linear.  Enemies only.  Ice ele
Ramuh - Range 4, 3-way attack.  Enemies only. Lit ele
Titan - Range 0, AoE 2.  Enemies only.  Earth ele.  

Support
Golem - Range 3, AoE 1 - Esuna-like effect, high success rate.
Salamander - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 170) chance to inflict Berserk.  Enemy only.
Lich - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 180) - Removes all positive status from the enemy.
Carbunkle - ?Confuddle? - Range 4, AoE - 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 130) - inflicts Charm, Confuse, OR sleep.  Enemy only.

Non-elemental
Bahamut - Range 4, AoE 2.  Affects both enemies and allies.  Higher damage and MP cost than ifrit.
Odin - Range 6 Linear - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 140) to inflict either Dead or Death Sentence
Zodiac - Range 4, AoE 0 - heavy damage, no AoE.
Cyclops - Range 4, AoE 3 - Med-Light damage, wide area.



Quote
Archers - Bow-weilders with a hint of magic!  And, yes, this one is a bit hard without overlapping.  They both gained a shot with a 25% proc of an invoker spell -- I chose one from each of their books but maybe a cross-swap would be better?  idk.  Invoker spell choice was the one most likely to connect, because procs that ultimately fail are lame.  Both also gained an AoE spell, and the cover fire idea is all skip sandwich iirc.  Also stepped on monks' toes a bit, and then straight stole from Dragoon but eh.

Iconics:
Beso Toxico - PW*WP with 100% chance to poison target.  Weapon range, MP 10.
Dominate Demon - Randomly inflicts Slow, Stop, DA, or DM onto a monster.  3 CTR, 12 MP.  100%.
(Lifeforce Shot) - Self-destruct formula, 8 range linear 8 vert, 30 MP, 100% Confusion

Ramza:
Divine Bolt - Sp + 50% chance to petrify undead.  Given to Ramza because he needs more light-based stuff.
Take Aim = PA*WP (maybe normal weapon strike?  I don't know if the goal is to inflict more than normal damage or just do unavoidable), 100% accuracy.  Given to Ramza since Rad has the thing from Knight.
Mist Disperse - MP damage, 20%+MA; 100%
Volley - moderate MP cost.  Bow/xbow only?  4 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Weapon Strike damage into the area.  
Dark Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with a 25% chance to cast Dark Chant on the target.
X - Entice Demon - 100% Monster charm. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

Rad:
Black Out Bolt - 100% Blind, but deals no damage.  2 MP.
Cupid's Arrow - Because Rad is a charming mofo.  MA+60%, weapon range, 3 CTR, 18 MP.
Cover Fire - 3 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Enduring (perpetuating?  performing? whatever) at.... 6 CTR intervals.  Uses truth formula to fire up to 3 arrows into the affected area every cycle.  
Lit Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with 25% chance to cast Shock on the target
Stone Arrow - 100% chance to cancel charging and performing
X - Soothe Demon - 100% Monster Sleep. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

~

Quote
Inquistor - EXPECT IT.  Stole a bit from Meliadoul.  When it doubt, give it a swordskill!Drawing a blank on these skills... maybe I'll thumb through the list from Ivalice Arena now that it's rather kaput.

Iconics:
Mirror Stance - self-only Reflect infliction at 100%.
Head Cracker - PA+65% chance to inflict Addle.  (damage + 100% seemed too good, and damage + 25% seemed to weak, so... goodbye damage)
(Blissful Indulgence) - MP restoration to ally?

Ramza:
Tear Away - 100% removal of magical benefits from target.  3 range, light MP cost, instant.  (Rad has the other dispel in monk)
?Shield Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets shield.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
???
Steady Feet - Range 0, AoE 1 vert 3;  100% cancel Stop and Don't Act

Rad:
Mana Strip - removes X% (30%?) mana from user.  This makes Rad/Ramza 2 and 2 for mana burn.
?Accessory Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets accessory.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
God's Orb - Tar_F * MA * X damage.  Range 4, single target.  Non elemental.
Stable Feet - Range 0, AoE 2 vert 3; 100% cancel Slow and Don't Move

~

Quote
Trancer - We need to see what formulas do and do not work with geomancy, and more importantly concrete out the rest of the classes before solidifying this.

~

Quote
Dragoon - Really there's several iconics I wish I could put up, but alas.  This'll be fun to divvy....

Iconics
Jump - Duh.  SP*WP damage.  5 range, infinite vert imo.  
Dragon's Cry - 2 range, 2 vert.  Success = PA+90%.  Revives target with 1% HP.  (to review, Fairy rezzes with 50% HP at 4 range and charge time, and cantor 20% with 1 range... this might work?)
(Dragon Lord) - Self-only Float, Reraise, Berserk, Innocent, Reflect, Protect, Shell

Ramza:
Wisdom's Downfall - TarCurMP dmg, 18 MP.  
Bahamut Breath - 3 range linear, MA*10 damage, 30 MP.  Possibly elemental.
Dragon Gambut - Weapon damage + 50% chance to use Vital Sense.
Dragon's Roar - 100% Slow, Self AoE 2 vert 3 MP 32.  Slooooow.
????
Highwind - PA*(high), 4 range. single target.  Deals physical damage and knocks enemy back.  Only useable while under Float status.

Rad:
Soul Sphere - PA*WP MP drain strike.  MP 45.
Dirt Breath- 2 range 1 AoE 2 vert 30 MP MA*10 damage.Earth Elemental.
Mimic Tiamat - 1 range, 3-way attack.  
Dragon Sword - Weapon damage with 50% chance to cast Ghost Strike on your foe.
Dragon's Wings - Fa's * (MA + 180) chance to inflict Float.  Light MP cost, very low CTR.  3 range, 2 AoE.
Bangaa Cry - Will be decided later.

~

Quote
Warder - I knew I missed one of em~

Iconics:
Fortify - Range 0 AoE 1 vert 3.  100% Protect
Muster - PA+120%, range 1 + self.  Esuna effect.  Moralizes himself or allies, letting them shake off negative status.
(unknown)

Ramza:
Grapple - CT00 with perservere!
Crumble - Cancels Protect, Shell, Reflect, or Defend and deals 33% damage
Daze - 1 range, 100% Blind.  No damage (same as Rad's Archer's Blackout)
Knockout - 1 range.  Fa*(MA + 160%) success rate; sleep infliction.
X - Swordslap - SUPER-light damage (MA*1-ish).  1 range, useful for canceling charm, confusion, and sleep without harming your ally.
????

Rad:
Relieve - 1 range; cancels defending or sleep, healing target for 33%.  Max success rate.
Kick - 1 range, PA-based damage with target knockback
Unknown - Previously Ramza-only status infliction at decent success rate
Snuff - 1 range; cancels sleep, damaging target for 100%.  Moderate success rate.
Steadfast - self-only.  Heals for 10% every 6 ticks until canceled/out of MP.  Preferably also inflicts defend but can a formula do both?
???


Quote
Arbalist - A crossbow using heavy damage user that somehow needs to be distinct from Archer and hopefully have minimal overlapping skills.  Buh.

Iconics
Elemental Shot - strong charged ability with various elements attached to it.  
Riskbreaker - Weapon damage with a proc of itself (which can proc itself, which can proc itself, etc)
(?????)

Ramza
??? - 6 range 0 vert tol linear attack dealing PA-based damage
Autocrossbow - Uses old repeating fist formula to pelt the enemy with a deluge of bolts, 3 range single target
Execute - Uses Death formula to deal 21% dark damage to critical targets.  Weapon range, single target.  
Desperation - self only, critical-only.  Adds haste and innocent at 100%
????
????

Rad
??? - 4 range 0 vert tol 3-way attack dealing PA-based damage
Point Blank - 1 range 0 vert tol - PA+WP+X attack.  High damage.
?Salted Wound? - Damage dealt = damage taken thus far (aka climhazzard) (trumps Execute, I know;  but this job is off the Red Mage radar and needs a perk imo)
Second Wind - self-only, critical-only.  Adds Berserk and Regen at 100%.
????
????






You're probably scratching your head asking "...what?"

Well let me explain. Zodiac created something called the Ability Requirement Hack a while back and it is quite a Marvelous tool! It has single-handedly rescued the Hessian and Red Mage classes! It gets around that accursed skillset bug in a myriad of ways.

To give you a scope of this things potential...

You can now make Any skill require Any sort of equipment, from a Crossbow to Ribbons! You no longer are restricted by "Only Sword, Only Materia Blade" The tool can also set up "synergy skills" that require two specific skillsets to be there, but for the most part we won't be using all of that (there will be exceptions, mind you)

What the greatest part of this tool is for us is the Gender specification for skills. For those who have been with Mercenaries a long time know that Rad is labeled Male and Ramza labeled Female (only on a mechanics side of things, of course). This is done so each could have their own special class at the end of their job lines. Well... thanks to the ARH this arrangement becomes 100x more meaningful!

Now Rad and Ramza will have Completely different Skillsets from one another! (Despite still having the majority of the same jobs) but I will need your help. I will need anywhere from 5-16 new abilities for these classes (as because there skillsets are split, that means that they can have 8 maximum, minimum I would say would be... 5 each.).

Let me show you an example...

Quote
Invoker

Ramza - Burn
Ramza - Spirit Surge
Ramza - Tremor
Ramza - Shock
Ramza - Blood Sin (Gran Grimoire)

Rad - Engulf
Rad - Dark Chant
Rad - Gale
Rad - Freeze
Rad - Explosion (Clear Thought)
(As you can also see from this example, that specific items can be required to use skills)





 I will be resurrecting each job thread (everyone that will be using this, anyhow), feel free to come up with your own themes for the Two skillsets, just keep in mind the purpose of the classes. Also don't fear of just giving a few skill ideas, we need as Much help as we can with this.

As always, thank you for all the help you can give.

EDIT: I will be away this weekend, but I'll try to respond to what I can while away.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: jimmyjw88 on July 31, 2010, 02:43:10 AM
Holyshit...This is great news!!
Different skills but same job. Amazing!!
Well, I wish I could be more help on this rather than just sprite though -.-
Anyway, really looking forward to this!!
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: Patri on July 31, 2010, 05:00:23 AM
LD, do you or any of the people collaborating with you on this project have any ideas about exactly how you'd like to separate Rad and Ramza?

By that I mean do you want one to be more of the attacker and one more support, one more physical one more magical? I guess anything like that would really make it a lot easier to think up skills specific to each one. I guess in a game such as FFT where you can pretty much make any character fill any role, it might be hard to impose restrictions like that.

Take for instance the Invoker example. What if you, for example, made one skill set more focused on dealing negative statuses, and the other more on damage and buffs?

Let's take Burn. "Chance to inflict Haste- The most powerful of the Invoker's spellbook, yet also one of the most inaccurate. It's power is augmented in it's spread damage."

What if you made Ramza's version of Burn one that would deal slight damage to allies, but also be able to inflict haste. Rad's version could do spread damage and have a change to inflict oil, or another negative effect (I was going to say burnt status, but this isn't Pokemon  :cry: ).

It's a simple idea (and possibly a bad one) but it's pretty much how I would view different skill sets for the same job.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 01, 2010, 04:59:19 PM
That's a bit too similar. Though it does have merit on its own. Mainly themes should be *loose* if any overarching theme is to be present in the first. Philsov did say that perhaps they should have *partially* shared skillsets, though that's only the case if we can't think of enough skills for any given class.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: GeneralStrife on August 04, 2010, 07:09:33 PM
wait project is dead no longer? good to hear
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 05, 2010, 05:20:46 PM
*opens up job thread*

Scryer: capped by item subset of items, not much to mess with there.  Suggest making Fury and Faith runes unique to Ramza and Rad, though.

Monk:
....How does the game treat 0 WP weaponry?  Is it considered barefisted and thus "WP" becomes [PA * Br/100]?  If so, a "Charge Up" using PA*WP + X formula with a decent CT should fit in nicely with the skillset.  
Heal Aura(?) - replenishes ally's MP by 25%.  Cannot be used on self.
Tranquility - Enemy is cleansed of all status, positive and negative
Consumption - Work formula attack, melee-range with moderate knockback damage.  

Invoker:  What other elemental types are there?  There's water, but past that you're in the realm of cross-elementals, which might work under this scheme.  Let's see... right now you've got fire, ice, lit, earth, wind, poison, light, dark, and blood (secret)....

Poison + earth - Rot - MA*2, self AoE of 1 (caster immune) - chance to inflict undead, poison, or death sentence
Fire + Wind - Flash Fire MA*4, Linear attack of 4.  No status, above average success rate.
Ice + Lit - Snowstorm - MA*4, range 4, AoE 2 - chance to inflict stop.  moderate to high MP cost.
Light + Dark - Inner Confict - MA*8, single target.  High damage, but no status and no aoe.  

(theres several ways to combine the elements, mind, but I like this scheme)
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 06, 2010, 01:21:36 AM
Quote from: "philsov"
*opens up job thread*

Scryer: capped by item subset of items, not much to mess with there.  Suggest making Fury and Faith runes unique to Ramza and Rad, though.

Hmm, yes that seems fitting. Good idea.

Quote
Monk:
....How does the game treat 0 WP weaponry?  Is it considered barefisted and thus "WP" becomes [PA * Br/100]?  If so, a "Charge Up" using PA*WP + X formula with a decent CT should fit in nicely with the skillset.  
Heal Aura(?) - replenishes ally's MP by 25%.  Cannot be used on self.[
Tranquility - Enemy is cleansed of all status, positive and negative
Consumption - Work formula attack, melee-range with moderate knockback damage.  

Hmm... those are great ideas! That's a pretty good idea! Not so fond on MP restoring abilities... I may try to put in some sort of universal MP system (Think the Mist from FFTA). If I can manage to make MP Default to 0... so I'm not too fond of MP restoring abilities on what is essentially a semi-physical class. All the rest look pretty good! Unfortunate Knockback can't be used on any slot, other than Tackle, if I recall right... (Will still need to change that one Bullet of mine)


Quote
Invoker:  What other elemental types are there?  There's water, but past that you're in the realm of cross-elementals, which might work under this scheme.  Let's see... right now you've got fire, ice, lit, earth, wind, poison, light, dark, and blood (secret)....

Poison + earth - Rot - MA*2, self AoE of 1 (caster immune) - chance to inflict undead, poison, or death sentence
Fire + Wind - Flash Fire MA*4, Linear attack of 4.  No status, above average success rate.
Ice + Lit - Snowstorm - MA*4, range 4, AoE 2 - chance to inflict stop.  moderate to high MP cost.
Light + Dark - Inner Confict - MA*8, single target.  High damage, but no status and no aoe.  

(theres several ways to combine the elements, mind, but I like this scheme)
[/quote][/quote]

Dual Elementals is the primary theme of Arbalist (or more like... quadruple element). Though as skills that concept works. Where Rad and Ramza will each have control of the four elements. Great ideas! I'll make sure to put them to use, also "MP Cost" with the Invoker,  is something special, as I'm sure you'll recall? They have only 11 MP during the course of the game, because "Their body betrays the mist" and the only way they can get more MP is through the "Grimoires" (which is the only armor they can equip), which gives them 10 MP.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 06, 2010, 02:21:41 PM
knockback as in reciprical damage a la work formula
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 06, 2010, 03:10:07 PM
Quote from: "philsov"
knockback as in reciprical damage a la work formula

Oh heh. Misunderstood the meaning, I thought you meant knockback as in "1 Square hit back", I forget what I ordinarily call that...
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: FFMaster on August 09, 2010, 01:24:02 AM
I got confused as well. Normally, the term for the caster taking damage would be damage recoil wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 09, 2010, 02:18:15 AM
Yes, that's ordinarily the correct term, thanks for jogging my memory FFMaster.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: ffta707 on August 09, 2010, 01:29:52 PM
This sounds great. I always say self damaging, but I guess the correct term is damage recoil.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 09, 2010, 07:02:19 PM
OK, attached in this post is a spreadsheet of all jobs so far.  Two sheets;  the first is the overall scheme so far in terms of what class is doing what, role-wise.  the second is just for status on what's getting inflicted by whom and overall numbers.  To explain the status sheet, D/P and A/R are abbrevations; D/P is for direct/proc, as in the ability is a Direct with pure status (or damage + 100% status) -- like Roulette versus proc with a chance to inflict status on top of usually damage, like Darts.  A/R is abbrevation is all or random, where either all the statii listed are inflicted/cured or just one of them on the list.  I understand some of the input may be wrong, as some of the skills posted are rough ideas at best, or at least hastily input which left me wondering about a finer point or two, where I just took an educated guess.

As a preface, I am very much of a role-ist.  That is, I like skillsets with specific goals in mind.  I don't like all classes being able to deal damage, cure, inflict status, dispel all at the same time.  I understand that LD is very, very different in terms of character themes... so I'm working a bit backwards here, but we can make names fit the function rather than the opposite.

To start things off:  
- There is currently 1 resurrection ability.  One.  Healing moves aren't that far behind.  
- There are 2 methods of MP healing, with ~5 methods of MP damage
- There should be more faith-based magic damage.  pewpew.  
- Statuses, as a whole... need to be reviewed, imo.  For starters the only way to cleanse half of the negative statii are Monk's Searing Salvation or Hessain's Restore.  So there need to be more cleansers, if only for a single status or two.
- Most of the status inflicted is done directly, %based or not, and not as a 25% attached proc on top of damage
- Looking back at all the various status inflictions and curing, I do think I like this scheme, if it were carried through fully.  Right now its very much in the crossroads with some classes being able to dish out a large number of status (Archers, e.g.) and many classes with one or two status inflictions.  This really ought to be cleaned up, somehow.  I'm working on it but I wanted to post up the prelim spreadsheet for all to see first.  My suggestion post is going to be a rather lengthy one, since it'll be all big-picturey and probably involve swapping around some of the current skills.  Completely offhand I'd like to see Knight with a wish-like ability (recoil seems to be a common theme with them) and Red Mage should be able to inflict Frog and Undead somewhere along the line because, well, no one else does atm.

Regarding trancers, I suppose that's 100% shared between Rad and Ramza, huh?

This spreadsheet will also serve as a function-based approach to these new skills, so both Rad and Ramza keep about the same level of healing/status/damage capability for each respective class.  Unless you'd like some sort of "evil twin" motiff....
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 09, 2010, 08:57:34 PM
This is extraordinarily comprehensive! Let me pore over it for a while as I formulate a response.

Thank you for these statistics, I never would have guessed this otherwise.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 09, 2010, 11:19:01 PM
Hmm, Darts can't cast Dead... I don't think?

If they did that would be Way too Overpowered.

Also I think you may have screwed one thing up (or I did?) Ace of Spades is the one with the 25% chance of Death, Jackpot doesn't cause Death. Just a lot of damage.

JackPot either does Drawout based Weapon damage, or it uses Lagomorph, which... can be troublesome. (Lagomorph uses M. Barrier and Heals your foes by a Massive amount basically on your foes. The only advantage is that it is reflectable, so if you're smart about it you can hit a Lagomorph back onto your allies if you're good at things like that)

Bent Pocket Watch only has Darkness cast upon it.  It doesn't also use Death or Death Sentence.

Quote from: "philsov"
- There is currently 1 resurrection ability. One. Healing moves aren't that far behind.

Alright, I have to say this is a grand start to seeing what really needs changed. Now, PX was saying how one revival skill might not be bad, and I was wondering if you could join us on IRC to have this discussion? I think there's value in both sides of that argument.

Quote from: "philsov"
- There are 2 methods of MP healing, with ~5 methods of MP damage


I was very against MP recovery, because our formulas for them are... not that great. I was thinking of just giving every unit innate Move MP Up and somehow hack in a 0 MP start (like FFTA). Thus balancing MP a fair amount.

Quote from: "philsov"
- There should be more faith-based magic damage. pewpew.

I fully agree. I noticed this early on as well and was something I always meant to address, I think with your aid we can do such. Just a note though that the Invoker's don't have Faith in their magics for a reason, the rest though... it all depends on what the specifics are.

Quote from: "philsov"
- Statuses, as a whole... need to be reviewed, imo. For starters the only way to cleanse half of the negative statii are Monk's Searing Salvation or Hessain's Restore. So there need to be more cleansers, if only for a single status or two.

Yes, that is a True problem. As for the Hessian's skills... none of them are final and probably shouldn't be included in any talks yet.

This is an area of great concern though.

Quote from: "philsov"
Most of the status inflicted is done directly, %based or not, and not as a 25% attached proc on top of damage

Hmm... I don't quite understand what you mean here. Could you clarify that for me?

Quote from: "philsov"
Looking back at all the various status inflictions and curing, I do think I like this scheme, if it were carried through fully. Right now its very much in the crossroads with some classes being able to dish out a large number of status (Archers, e.g.) and many classes with one or two status inflictions. This really ought to be cleaned up, somehow. I'm working on it but I wanted to post up the prelim spreadsheet for all to see first. My suggestion post is going to be a rather lengthy one, since it'll be all big-picturey and probably involve swapping around some of the current skills. Completely offhand I'd like to see Knight with a wish-like ability (recoil seems to be a common theme with them) and Red Mage should be able to inflict Frog and Undead somewhere along the line because, well, no one else does atm.


Hmm... yes I do agree it should be cleaned up, which is why I cannot wait to see your suggestions for it! It just seems a bit much to figure out alone so I'm very glad I have your assistance on this.

Knights with a Wish like ability... it would fit the "Martyr" theme of the Light side of the Knight class I want to show. I'll probably change Delita/Ramza/Alma's Wish to be more impactful than this one then.

I do agree that Red Mage should get Frog and Undead. It would make them even more unique in such. (Only people that currently have such are bosses and the like)

I cannot wait for your next big post! Thanks for bouncing these ideas around.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 10, 2010, 08:23:29 PM
ok, I joined the chat a little late and missed a powwow with PX, but in general:

Revival is a huge thing.  In vanilla there were 3 different skillsets with it and 1.3 offerred 5 different skillsets.  This was because the need for revival was so prevalent that it allowed for some variety.  Sure, a group of 5x Specials with Item secondary worked, but it was boring as hell.  I am so much more a fan of having someone with white magic and someone with punch art and someone with summon magic etcetcetc because I needed to have the revival but I also liked everything else the skillset offered.  That said, I am however interested in breaking up the revivers from the cleansers -- for as monks had revive, they also had stigma magic.  Esuna was friends with raise and remedy lurved phoenix down.  So now the defensive-ish skillsets will be less catch-all, and provide some opportunity cost.  The curers still need to be somewhere in the mix, too, but I'd rather not see all three in a single skillset.  

And then let's not forget pacing... curing, dispelling, and revival should all be available early on, meaning:  Knight, Traveler, Monk, Scryer, Cantor, and Invoker.  But, we're somewhat set there already.  Monk offers dispelling, Scryer's got some curing, and cantor has revival plus curing.  Additionally Blue Mage offers curing (as does Knight, I'll split Rad/Ramza to each have one of these) while Esperblade will rock all 3, although they'll be split into two subgroups.  So... from here I suggest Warder gets a major dispel, and Dragoon a revival skill.  This gives us:

3 revivers (Cantor, Dragoon, Esper)
3 major dispellers (Monk, Warder, Esper)
4 curers (Scryer, Knight/BM, Cantor, Esper)

Which covers all the defensive bases, I think.

Regarding the to-be split skillsets, taking a page from Raven... we're at 338-ish editable skillslots.  If you want 15 classes with 16 skills a piece (BM is a freebie :)
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 10, 2010, 09:17:03 PM
Quote from: "philsov"
ok, I joined the chat a little late and missed a powwow with PX, but in general:

Revival is a huge thing.  In vanilla there were 3 different skillsets with it and 1.3 offerred 5 different skillsets.  This was because the need for revival was so prevalent that it allowed for some variety.  Sure, a group of 5x Specials with Item secondary worked, but it was boring as hell.  I am so much more a fan of having someone with white magic and someone with punch art and someone with summon magic etcetcetc because I needed to have the revival but I also liked everything else the skillset offered.  That said, I am however interested in breaking up the revivers from the cleansers -- for as monks had revive, they also had stigma magic.  Esuna was friends with raise and remedy lurved phoenix down.  So now the defensive-ish skillsets will be less catch-all, and provide some opportunity cost.  The curers still need to be somewhere in the mix, too, but I'd rather not see all three in a single skillset.  

Whoa, this is... quite a post, more than I was expecting! I will do my best to respond to each point in tow.

Revival is quite a rather gigantic thing, I do admit. Admittedly it was to stop sandbagging, but I don't think limiting the player's choice is the best way to deal with that. Your idea is worth merit and will be implemented. Also I Love that you also had the idea to break up the Defenders (though it was more or less coincidental when I had done so). All in all your ideas here are top notch and will be implemented.

Quote
And then let's not forget pacing... curing, dispelling, and revival should all be available early on, meaning:  Knight, Traveler, Monk, Scryer, Cantor, and Invoker.  But, we're somewhat set there already.  Monk offers dispelling, Scryer's got some curing, and cantor has revival plus curing.  Additionally Blue Mage offers curing (as does Knight, I'll split Rad/Ramza to each have one of these) while Esperblade will rock all 3, although they'll be split into two subgroups.  So... from here I suggest Warder gets a major dispel, and Dragoon a revival skill.  This gives us:

3 revivers (Cantor, Dragoon, Esper)
3 major dispellers (Monk, Warder, Esper)
4 curers (Scryer, Knight/BM, Cantor, Esper)

Which covers all the defensive bases, I think.

Pacing is very important and I can't tell if I ignored that with my initial skill choices or not.  As you mentioned each of those are necessary to make the game run smoothly. Also giving a curing skill to Knight (to partially represent Paladin) is a very good idea!  Warder having a major Dispel makes a good deal of sense (by Dispel I assume you mean Esuna-esque.) Dragoon getting revival... hmm, I'll wait to see how you manage that before I completely commit to it.


Quote
Regarding the to-be split skillsets, taking a page from Raven... we're at 338-ish editable skillslots.  If you want 15 classes with 16 skills a piece (BM is a freebie :)

Haha! I love that description. I think Abraxas and Somber Drive's formula both need looked at, we should balance that in some way. Transfusion is nice, very nice infact! I like how you managed that. Is there a reason why Guns shouldn't be allowed to use Swiftness? Chaste Slice will need reworked a bit... might be scrapped in the end, (since that formula is the one we just made today). So any suggestions to a similar...ish skill would be great. Thank you for All of this Philsov and I hope my return post was adequate to suit needs and curiosities.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 12, 2010, 04:21:09 PM
Quote
Warder having a major Dispel makes a good deal of sense (by Dispel I assume you mean Esuna-esque.) Dragoon getting revival... hmm, I'll wait to see how you manage that before I completely commit to it.

Heh, yes.  I do mean esuna-esque.  As for dragoon specifically... maybe not.  I would like to see a revival skill somewhere on the northern region of the job tree that isn't BM or Warder, and it seems most fitting on Dragoon rather than any other option.  

Quote
I planned for... well everything in Mercenaries to cost some amount of MP.

Ah.  Very well, once we start working with hard numbers we can assign fitting MP costs :)

Quote
I suggest that Smite cost 6 MP.

Agreed.  I apparently left off the planned high MP cost.

Quote
Is there a reason why Guns shouldn't be allowed to use Swiftness?

There's a bug with guns (really, anything with WP*WP formula) that prevents the use of formulas 1, 2, and 5 without using the ARH lest 999 exploitation occur.  As swiftness would probably use these formulae, you'll need to do some followthrough.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 12, 2010, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: "philsov"
Quote
Warder having a major Dispel makes a good deal of sense (by Dispel I assume you mean Esuna-esque.) Dragoon getting revival... hmm, I'll wait to see how you manage that before I completely commit to it.

Heh, yes.  I do mean esuna-esque.  As for dragoon specifically... maybe not.  I would like to see a revival skill somewhere on the northern region of the job tree that isn't BM or Warder, and it seems most fitting on Dragoon rather than any other option.  

I see what you mean, hmm.... well we'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

Quote
Quote
I planned for... well everything in Mercenaries to cost some amount of MP.

Ah.  Very well, once we start working with hard numbers we can assign fitting MP costs :)

Indeed, once everything gets hammered out we can start with that.

Quote
Quote
Is there a reason why Guns shouldn't be allowed to use Swiftness?

There's a bug with guns (really, anything with WP*WP formula) that prevents the use of formulas 1, 2, and 5 without using the ARH lest 999 exploitation occur.  As swiftness would probably use these formulae, you'll need to do some followthrough.

Ouch, I had no idea that's what the Guns bug was... well thank you ARH! Alright, I will definitely arrange for that.

As always thanks for the feedback, Philsov.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 12, 2010, 06:59:16 PM
skipping knights for now...

Travelers - Rhodes Scholar?  More like rogue scholar!  lololololololol.  Did a decent split, then mirrored up Pick Up Speed and gave them both cool little duo tricks.  Ramza gained Ghost Strike as Rad has the thing from Monk.

Iconics:
Steal Heart - (MA + 50%) Range 3, Single Target, Charm, CT 3, MP 25
Blow Leaves Dmg F_(MA * 5) 3 Range, 3 Area, 3 Vertical - MP 10
(?????) - (MA + 5%) Range 4, Area 3, Vertical 3, CT 5, MP 60 - Has a small chance to turn your foes into Treasures.

Rad:
Rust Helm - (PA + WP + 60%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 10
Rust Weapon - (PA + WP + 30) Range 3, Single Target, MP 18
Hide Away MA + 70% 3 Range, 3 Vertical, Single Target, CT 4 MP 10
Steal Exp -
Drop Down Speed - (Status 100%) 3 range, Target enemy, MP 16. With a quick incantation they apply slow to the foe.
Saved Time - Success = PA + 90%.  Cancels an ally's haste in order to heal them for ?50%?.

Ramza:
Rust Armor - (PA + WP + 40%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 12
Rust Shield - (PA + WP + 55%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 5
Ghost Strike - Dmg_MP * 5, Melee range, Single Range, MP 10
Steal Gil - CastLvl_SP 100% Hit - Field Wide, CT 2, MP 5
Pick Up Speed - (Status 100%) Target Self, MP 16, With a quick incantation they apply Haste to themselves.
Mineralize - Success = MA + 55% - Attempts to inflict Petrify to an already Slowed opponent.

~

Gambler - My life is a chip in your pile.  Ante up!

Iconics:
Darts -  Formula: 1F (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 0) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm - X Variable:10 - Y Variable: 0 - Range: 4 - Effect Area: 0 - Vertical: 1 - - CT: 2 - MP: 15
Jackpot - 50/50 chance to hurt or heal targets in range.  How is this getting rigged up?
(Shady Deal) - Steal Acc

Ramza:
Dice Off - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals light-moderate non-elemental magical damage 1-6 times randomly between the gambler and his target
Straight - Deals one of 5 status effects at 50% -- (Blind/Poison/Don't Move/Addle/Berserk)
Ace of Spades - Deals high damage, Low chance to cause instant death.
Double Down - Self + AoE 1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Reraise/Don't Move
Roulette - Haste or Slow to everything in sight
Polarize - Innocent or Faith everything in sight

Rad:
Coin Toss - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals moderate-heavy non-elemental magical damage to either the Gambler or his target (only hits once, so 50-50 odds)
Three of a Kind - 3 range linear - PA-based damage with a chance to inflict ?????
Tantalize - MA+60% chance to inflict Stop. (we need less charm and confusion imo)
Drink Off - Self + AoE1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Sleep/Berserk
???? - Poison or Regen to everything in sight
Dazzle - Blind or Protect to everything in sight (Defend and Blind might be more fitting, but def is too temp for blind)

~

Reliquarian - Much like the Scryer, this chap is capped on available, so little will be added/split.  Tweaking may be needed, but later!

~

Blue Mage - Needs no description!

Iconics
Choco Cure - Self AoE Curing
Drain Touch - MP damage and MP restoration all in one!
(Hurricane) - I think self-destruct is imba, but secret skills will be looked at after the status effect bit.  

Ramza
Eye gouge
Ice Breath
Triple Thunder
Spark
Calm Spirit
Not cat kick - ???

Rad
Mind Blast
Blaster
Blow Fire
Triple Attack
Wind Soul
Circle

~

Esperblade - Subjected to a paradigm shift.  The esperblades will only be able to summon Espers tied to their equipped weapon, thanks to ARH. There are 4 subgroups with 4 espers each, to the tune of:  Healing, Support, Elemental, and Non-elemental.  Highly specialized but highly effective.  All spells are Faith-based, and all spells in the elemental and non-elemental brances have a 100% chance to hit.  Also forgive me for imprinting summon functions from my own patch :3.

Healing
Moogle - Range 4. AoE 2 - Wide-area healing
Fairy - Range 4, AoE 0 - Revives target with 50% health (Raise, basically)
Leviathan - Range 3, AoE 2 - Regen infliction
Silf - Range 3, AoE 1 - Drains 15% HP from targets.  (does AoE drain work, at all?  Would be nice to siphon life from a large area, while keeping things balanced for boss fights coupled with the drain cap ASM)

Elemental - Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh do the same damage with the same MP cost.  Titan is stronger (same MP?) due to range issues.
Ifrit - Range 4, AoE 2, affects both enemies and allies.  Fire elemental.
Shiva - Range 6, linear.  Enemies only.  Ice ele
Ramuh - Range 4, 3-way attack.  Enemies only. Lit ele
Titan - Range 0, AoE 2.  Enemies only.  Earth ele.  

Support
Golem - Range 3, AoE 1 - Esuna-like effect, high success rate.
Salamander - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 170) chance to inflict Berserk.  Enemy only.
Lich - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 180) - Removes all positive status from the enemy.
Carbunkle - ?Confuddle? - Range 4, AoE - 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 130) - inflicts Charm, Confuse, OR sleep.  Enemy only.

Non-elemental
Bahamut - Range 4, AoE 2.  Affects both enemies and allies.  Higher damage and MP cost than ifrit.
Odin - Range 6 Linear - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 140) to inflict either Dead or Death Sentence
Zodiac - Range 4, AoE 0 - heavy damage, no AoE.
Cyclops - Range 4, AoE 3 - Med-Light damage, wide area.

That's it for now :)
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: winshmo2 on August 12, 2010, 07:04:14 PM
Esper skill Silf may be pretty strong if the drained HP from all the targets stack when thy heal the caster
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 12, 2010, 07:05:59 PM
I'm actually kind of counting on it.  15% shouldn't be too bad, we can tweak to lower as needed though.  Or give it an ungodly MP cost.

edit:  Well, crap.  AoE Life Drain only gives HP back on the last target drained.  Should still work at 20% - light gravity damage plus a hint of self-healing.  Would thusly deal a flat 200 damage to bosses though, if undesired I can wrangle up something else for silf.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 13, 2010, 04:01:14 AM
Quote from: "philsov"
skipping knights for now...

Travelers - Rhodes Scholar?  More like rogue scholar!  lololololololol.  Did a decent split, then mirrored up Pick Up Speed and gave them both cool little duo tricks.  Ramza gained Ghost Strike as Rad has the thing from Monk.

Iconics:
Steal Heart - (MA + 50%) Range 3, Single Target, Charm, CT 3, MP 25
Blow Leaves Dmg F_(MA * 5) 3 Range, 3 Area, 3 Vertical - MP 10
(?????) - (MA + 5%) Range 4, Area 3, Vertical 3, CT 5, MP 60 - Has a small chance to turn your foes into Treasures.

Rad:
Rust Helm - (PA + WP + 60%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 10
Rust Weapon - (PA + WP + 30) Range 3, Single Target, MP 18
Hide Away MA + 70% 3 Range, 3 Vertical, Single Target, CT 4 MP 10
Steal Exp -
Drop Down Speed - (Status 100%) 3 range, Target enemy, MP 16. With a quick incantation they apply slow to the foe.
Saved Time - Success = PA + 90%.  Cancels an ally's haste in order to heal them for ?50%?.

Ramza:
Rust Armor - (PA + WP + 40%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 12
Rust Shield - (PA + WP + 55%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 5
Ghost Strike - Dmg_MP * 5, Melee range, Single Range, MP 10
Steal Gil - CastLvl_SP 100% Hit - Field Wide, CT 2, MP 5
Pick Up Speed - (Status 100%) Target Self, MP 16, With a quick incantation they apply Haste to themselves.
Mineralize - Success = MA + 55% - Attempts to inflict Petrify to an already Slowed opponent.

~

Hmm... I really do love this split (especially how they compliment one another the most) Though I don't quite understand how you plan for for Mineralize to work (though I absolutely Love the concept). Since the Death formula only removes the status, and doesn't let another be applied. Is there something I'm missing here? Also they both having Steal Heart works very well. And keeping them with Blow Leaves, is a rather iconic move. All in all I really like these skillsets! You managed to improve upon one of my favorite concepts!

Quote
Gambler - My life is a chip in your pile.  Ante up!

Iconics:
Darts -  Formula: 1F (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 0) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm - X Variable:10 - Y Variable: 0 - Range: 4 - Effect Area: 0 - Vertical: 1 - - CT: 2 - MP: 15
Jackpot - 50/50 chance to hurt or heal targets in range.  How is this getting rigged up?
(Shady Deal) - Steal Acc

Ramza:
Dice Off - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals light-moderate non-elemental magical damage 1-6 times randomly between the gambler and his target
Straight - Deals one of 5 status effects at 50% -- (Blind/Poison/Don't Move/Addle/Berserk)
Ace of Spades - Deals high damage, Low chance to cause instant death.
Double Down - Self + AoE 1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Reraise/Don't Move
Roulette - Haste or Slow to everything in sight
Polarize - Innocent or Faith everything in sight

Rad:
Coin Toss - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals moderate-heavy non-elemental magical damage to either the Gambler or his target (only hits once, so 50-50 odds)
Three of a Kind - 3 range linear - PA-based damage with a chance to inflict ?????
Tantalize - MA+60% chance to inflict Stop. (we need less charm and confusion imo)
Drink Off - Self + AoE1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Sleep/Berserk
???? - Poison or Regen to everything in sight
Dazzle - Blind or Protect to everything in sight (Defend and Blind might be more fitting, but def is too temp for blind)

~

Jackpot is a 50/50 skill by using Formula 2 (I guess another ARH not to allow to be used with Gun) Though the first hit, will invariably hit, the second hit heals a Large amount and inflicts positive status as well, it is a real risk to use it. Though that's the theme, heh. Double Down is an interesting move, though I think we can afford to increase its chance to hit to 75% since there's still a 50% chance of it backfiring all together. Drink Off is fantastic! I like the way you manage that. The change to Tantalize makes a bit more sense (since it would be flustered, rather than confused on who to follow, or whether to just follow them indiscriminately) Polarize is an interesting skill. I think that's a pretty good name for it. Three of a Kind is interesting... though what would it inflict, hmm... since I don't have the patcher where I'm currently at, I'll muse on that later. Now that "???" Poison/Regen move hmm... "Moss Shroom Cloud"? - Unlike its famed relative, Moss Fungus, Moss Shroom is hailed as a restorative, but imbibing too much may be just as hazardous as its cousin.

Quote
Reliquarian - Much like the Scryer, this chap is capped on available, so little will be added/split.  Tweaking may be needed, but later!

~

Heh, it's Reliquian, but Reliquarian was the tentative name we were using for a time, so I can see where you got confused.

Quote
Blue Mage - Needs no description!

Iconics
Choco Cure - Self AoE Curing
Drain Touch - MP damage and MP restoration all in one!
(Hurricane) - I think self-destruct is imba, but secret skills will be looked at after the status effect bit.  

Ramza
Eye gouge
Ice Breath
Triple Thunder
Spark
Calm Spirit
Not cat kick - ???

Rad
Mind Blast
Blaster
Blow Fire
Triple Attack
Wind Soul
Circle

~

Blue Mage is a Very... not fully complete class all together. I would hold off on this one. Mainly because each monster's skills are being reworked (any idea for only three skils for only one of each family would be greatly appreciated as well)


Quote
Esperblade - Subjected to a paradigm shift.  The esperblades will only be able to summon Espers tied to their equipped weapon, thanks to ARH. There are 4 subgroups with 4 espers each, to the tune of:  Healing, Support, Elemental, and Non-elemental.  Highly specialized but highly effective.  All spells are Faith-based, and all spells in the elemental and non-elemental brances have a 100% chance to hit.  Also forgive me for imprinting summon functions from my own patch :3.

Healing
Moogle - Range 4. AoE 2 - Wide-area healing
Fairy - Range 4, AoE 0 - Revives target with 50% health (Raise, basically)
Leviathan - Range 3, AoE 2 - Regen infliction
Silf - Range 3, AoE 1 - Drains 15% HP from targets.  (does AoE drain work, at all?  Would be nice to siphon life from a large area, while keeping things balanced for boss fights coupled with the drain cap ASM)

Elemental - Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh do the same damage with the same MP cost.  Titan is stronger (same MP?) due to range issues.
Ifrit - Range 4, AoE 2, affects both enemies and allies.  Fire elemental.
Shiva - Range 6, linear.  Enemies only.  Ice ele
Ramuh - Range 4, 3-way attack.  Enemies only. Lit ele
Titan - Range 0, AoE 2.  Enemies only.  Earth ele.  

Support
Golem - Range 3, AoE 1 - Esuna-like effect, high success rate.
Salamander - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 170) chance to inflict Berserk.  Enemy only.
Lich - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 180) - Removes all positive status from the enemy.
Carbunkle - ?Confuddle? - Range 4, AoE - 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 130) - inflicts Charm, Confuse, OR sleep.  Enemy only.

Non-elemental
Bahamut - Range 4, AoE 2.  Affects both enemies and allies.  Higher damage and MP cost than ifrit.
Odin - Range 6 Linear - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 140) to inflict either Dead or Death Sentence
Zodiac - Range 4, AoE 0 - heavy damage, no AoE.
Cyclops - Range 4, AoE 3 - Med-Light damage, wide area.

That's it for now :)

I like this set up a lot! At first I was worried about Shiva, Ifrit, and Ramuh seeming all too similar, but you dealt with that rather well in the differences of AoE and the like. The others seem pretty solid. The Non-Elemental blade is likely going to be the weapon that costs the most MP to use effectively, since a lot of the classics are in there. As you later noted (and I found out sometime ago due to failed tests with Balmafula) that AoE draining does not work too well, but only the last one is absorbed. This doesn't bother me and I think it works rather well. I think we'll decided on either 15-20% later. As always, great reading, and I will put your ideas into effect (assuming  I have internet again when I get home...) as soon as possible.

Also if anyone else would like to join in this conversation, then by all means. Your feedback may be a piece we overlooked or just the something that may have felt was missing.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: mav on August 13, 2010, 06:49:16 PM
I'm inspired by Philsov's post, but I doubt I'll live up to it. I doubt these contributions will be worthwhile, but hopefully they'll help someone better at this than me come up with some good skillsets. I'm pretty unfamiliar with all this stuff, so hopefully LD or someone can flesh out these lame ideas themselves.

I'm gonna start with Knights. I'll just contribute a few skills to both Rad and Ramza, maybe these can be tacked on with what's already been suggested.
Knights
Ramza:
Iai Strike - High MP cost, weapon range. 30% Death. This might be overpowered...
Some kind of elemental move.
Last Stand - Must be critical (I dunno if this is possible, even with ARH). Dacrifice life for a high damage sword strike.

Rad:
Cripple - low MP, weapon range. Low-mid damage, high chance of slow. This might be too similar to something another class has though.
Vile Blow - high faith enemies suffer~. 14 MP, instant, weapon range. MA-based. Basically a contrast to Ramza's Chaste Slice, only it affects high faith enemies instead.
Oversoul - Mid MP cost, weapon range. Weapon strike with Light elemental damage.

Don't take these skills too seriously, I just wanted to shoot some ideas out and contribute to this project.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 14, 2010, 12:52:02 AM
Quote from: "mav"
I'm inspired by Philsov's post, but I doubt I'll live up to it. I doubt these contributions will be worthwhile, but hopefully they'll help someone better at this than me come up with some good skillsets. I'm pretty unfamiliar with all this stuff, so hopefully LD or someone can flesh out these lame ideas themselves.

I'm gonna start with Knights. I'll just contribute a few skills to both Rad and Ramza, maybe these can be tacked on with what's already been suggested.
Knights
Ramza:
Iai Strike - High MP cost, weapon range. 30% Death. This might be overpowered...
Some kind of elemental move.
Last Stand - Must be critical (I dunno if this is possible, even with ARH). Dacrifice life for a high damage sword strike.

Rad:
Cripple - low MP, weapon range. Low-mid damage, high chance of slow. This might be too similar to something another class has though.
Vile Blow - high faith enemies suffer~. 14 MP, instant, weapon range. MA-based. Basically a contrast to Ramza's Chaste Slice, only it affects high faith enemies instead.
Oversoul - Mid MP cost, weapon range. Weapon strike with Light elemental damage.

Don't take these skills too seriously, I just wanted to shoot some ideas out and contribute to this project.

The names could use some work, but these are some pretty good idea.

Iai Strike is from Dissidia so that's a pretty neat reference. Decent MP,  a low charge time, and weapon range... but Iai Strike breaks Bravery, so perhaps... a 50% chance of Lowering Brave by 10 each time you use it? Only usable with certain weapon classes?

Last Stand is a rather interesting skill as well. A skill that kills you upon use, because of your low HP? That is an interesting concept and one I think works very well. the ARH allows that idea to work flawlessly.

Now for Rad...

Cripple is Far too similar to Warder's... well Cripple. Vile Blow is a nice contrast to Chaste Slice, it could use a name change, I'm thinking... Fanatic's Folly.

Oversoul (FFX Reference?)  it's nice to have a a Holy Weapon Strike.  Hmm, though we'll probably go with the more traditional Sacred Symbol (Sacred Cross).

Thanks for the ideas Mav, and if you have the time, could you weigh in on that suggestion as well Philsov? If these are used, I think that leaves only one skills needed (for Ramza).
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 16, 2010, 02:00:51 PM
Quote
could you weigh in on that suggestion as well Philsov

They're great!  

Iai strike (LD's version) offers Br lowering, which is otherwise lacking.  10 might be too small of an increment, though.  
Last Stand and "swordstrike" are excellent, and the pairing up versus chaste slice is a good touch.

As for ramza... perhaps another swordskill?   Except this one will have 2 range, 1 AoE, 0 vert and.... darkness?  elemental?  Just something to be close yet different.

Regarding mineralize, I really don't think that'll work.  But taking a note from Saved Time, perhaps something to the tune of "Stolen time"?  Cancels slow, inflicts 50% HP damage?  Moderate to high success rate?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: mav on August 16, 2010, 03:39:56 PM
Lowering Brave sounds like a sensible change to the skill. It's less overpowered and more versatile than what I'd suggested. Heh, the Oversoul skill is actually another Dissidia reference, but the name itself recurs in various Final Fantasy games.

Quote from: "Philsov"
As for ramza... perhaps another swordskill? Except this one will have 2 range, 1 AoE, 0 vert and.... darkness? elemental? Just something to be close yet different.
Simple, but effective. All it needs is a name.

What other classes are in desperate need of skills?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 16, 2010, 05:49:37 PM
Quote
What other classes are in desperate need of skills?

Inquistor, Warder, and Dragoon notably.  Also need a few names in this batch.

Quote
any idea for only three skils for only one of each family would be greatly appreciated as well)

noted!

Archers - Bow-weilders with a hint of magic!  And, yes, this one is a bit hard without overlapping.  They both gained a shot with a 25% proc of an invoker spell -- I chose one from each of their books but maybe a cross-swap would be better?  idk.  Invoker spell choice was the one most likely to connect, because procs that ultimately fail are lame.  Both also gained an AoE spell, and the cover fire idea is all skip sandwich iirc.  Also stepped on monks' toes a bit, and then straight stole from Dragoon but eh.

Iconics:
Beso Toxico - PW*WP with 100% chance to poison target.  Weapon range, MP 10.
Dominate Demon - Randomly inflicts Slow, Stop, DA, or DM onto a monster.  3 CTR, 12 MP.  100%.
(Lifeforce Shot) - Self-destruct formula, 8 range linear 8 vert, 30 MP, 100% Confusion

Ramza:
Divine Bolt - Sp + 50% chance to petrify undead.  Given to Ramza because he needs more light-based stuff.
Take Aim = PA*WP (maybe normal weapon strike?  I don't know if the goal is to inflict more than normal damage or just do unavoidable), 100% accuracy.  Given to Ramza since Rad has the thing from Knight.
Mist Disperse - MP damage, 20%+MA; 100%
Volley - moderate MP cost.  Bow/xbow only?  4 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Weapon Strike damage into the area.  
Dark Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with a 25% chance to cast ?whatever the name of Ramza's dark invoker spell is? on the target.
Entice Demon - 100% Monster charm. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

Rad:
Black Out Bolt - 100% Blind, but deals no damage.  2 MP.
Cupid's Arrow - Because Rad is a charming mofo.  MA+60%, weapon range, 3 CTR, 18 MP.
Cover Fire - 3 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Enduring (perpetuating?  performing? whatever) at.... 6 CTR intervals.  Uses truth formula to fire up to 3 arrows into the affected area every cycle.  
Lit Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with 25% chance to cast Shock on the target
?Cancel Arrow? - 100% chance to cancel charging and performing
Soothe Demon - 100% Monster Sleep. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

~

Inquistor - EXPECT IT.  Stole a bit from Meliadoul.  When it doubt, give it a swordskill!Drawing a blank on these skills... maybe I'll thumb through the list from Ivalice Arena now that it's rather kaput.

Iconics:
Mirror Stance - self-only Reflect infliction at 100%.
Head Cracker - PA+65% chance to inflict Addle.  (damage + 100% seemed too good, and damage + 25% seemed to weak, so... goodbye damage)
(Blissful Indulgence) - MP restoration to ally?

Ramza:
Tear Away - 100% removal of magical benefits from target.  3 range, light MP cost, instant.  (Rad has the other dispel in monk)
?Shield Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets shield.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
???
Steady Feet - Range 0, AoE 1 vert 3;  100% cancel Don't Move

Rad:
Mana Strip - removes X% (30%?) mana from user.  This makes Rad/Ramza 2 and 2 for mana burn.
?Accessory Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets accessory.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
God's Orb - Tar_F * MA * X damage.  Range 4, single target.  Non elemental.
Stable Feet - Range 0, AoE 1 vert 3; 100% cancel Slow

~

Trancer - We need to see what formulas do and do not work with geomancy, and more importantly concrete out the rest of the classes before solidifying this.

~

Dragoon - Really there's several iconics I wish I could put up, but alas.  This'll be fun to divvy....

Iconics
Jump - Duh.  SP*WP damage.  5 range, infinite vert imo.  
Dragon's Cry - 2 range, 2 vert.  Success = PA+90%.  Revives target with 1% HP.  (to review, Fairy rezzes with 50% HP at 4 range and charge time, and cantor 20% with 1 range... this might work?)
(Dragon Lord) - Self-only Float, Reraise, Berserk, Innocent, Reflect, Protect, Shell

Ramza:
Wisdom's Downfall - TarCurMP dmg, 18 MP.  
Bahamut Breath - 3 range linear, MA*10 damage, 30 MP.  Possibly elemental.
Vital Sense - PA+30% to seperately inflict several bad statii
Dragon's Roar - 100% Slow, Self AoE 2 vert 3 MP 32.  Slooooow.
????
Highwind - PA*(high), 4 range. single target.  Deals physical damage and knocks enemy back.  Only useable while under Float status.

Rad:
Soul Sphere - PA*WP MP drain strike.  MP 45.
?Some other FF dragon breath? - 2 range 1 AoE 2 vert 30 MP MA*10 damage.  Possible elemental.
Mimic Tiamat - 1 range, 3-way attack.  
???
Dragon's Wings - Fa's * (MA + 180) chance to inflict Float.  Light MP cost, very low CTR.  3 range, 2 AoE.
???

~

Warder - I knew I missed one of em~

Iconics:
Fortify - Range 0 AoE 1 vert 3.  100% Protect
Muster - PA+120%, range 1 + self.  Esuna effect.  Moralizes himself or allies, letting them shake off negative status.
(unknown)

Ramza:
Grapple - CT00 with perservere!
Crumble - Cancels Protect, Shell, Reflect, or Defend and deals 33% damage
Daze - 1 range, 100% Blind.  No damage (same as Rad's Archer's Blackout)
Knockout - 1 range.  Fa*(MA + 160%) success rate; sleep infliction.
Swordslap - SUPER-light damage (MA*1-ish).  1 range, useful for canceling charm, confusion, and sleep without harming your ally.
????

Rad:
Relieve - 1 range; cancels defending or sleep, healing target for 33%.  Max success rate.
Kick - 1 range, PA-based damage with target knockback
Unknown - Previously Ramza-only status infliction at decent success rate
Snuff - 1 range; cancels sleep, damaging target for 100%.  Moderate success rate.
Steadfast - self-only.  Heals for 10% every 6 ticks until canceled/out of MP.  Preferably also inflicts defend but can a formula do both?
???

Whew.  I think that's most of em.  Hessain and Red Mage will be updated in a few days once I'm done updated the spreadsheet with all the new and properly divided skills.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: mav on August 17, 2010, 01:04:07 AM
Just gonna shoot out some random ideas, let's see if we can flesh 'em out or make 'em work.

Dragoons
Ramza:
White Wind - Restore low HP. High range. I dunno, it should basically be a cure spell that grants low HP but is larger in range than other cure spells.

Rad:
Dragon Sword - Absorb HP and MP from enemy. Wait, is this even possible? It's a throwback to FFV; that's the only reason I'm suggesting it.
Bangaa Cry - High MP cost, high damage, low range, small area. May need to be renamed.

I'll try and get to the others some time soon.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 17, 2010, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: "philsov"
Quote
could you weigh in on that suggestion as well Philsov

They're great!  

Iai strike (LD's version) offers Br lowering, which is otherwise lacking.  10 might be too small of an increment, though.  
Last Stand and "swordstrike" are excellent, and the pairing up versus chaste slice is a good touch.

As for ramza... perhaps another swordskill?   Except this one will have 2 range, 1 AoE, 0 vert and.... darkness?  elemental?  Just something to be close yet different.

Regarding mineralize, I really don't think that'll work.  But taking a note from Saved Time, perhaps something to the tune of "Stolen time"?  Cancels slow, inflicts 50% HP damage?  Moderate to high success rate?

Hmm... maybe Iai Strike can be changed to -20 Br. I don't think I'll let the AI have access to it though, for a few reasons, that should be pretty obvious.

A Dark Swordskill that isn't Dark Wave, Darkness or Soul Eater, hmm... we'll get back to that later (just found out I have only 30 Minutes left in the library! Hence forth maybe not even a sentence per skill.

Stolen Time sounds good, it's a better fitting theme, in my opinion.


Quote from: "philsov"
Quote
could you weigh in on that suggestion as well Philsov

They're great!  

Iai strike (LD's version) offers Br lowering, which is otherwise lacking.  10 might be too small of an increment, though.  
Last Stand and "swordstrike" are excellent, and the pairing up versus chaste slice is a good touch.

As for ramza... perhaps another swordskill?   Except this one will have 2 range, 1 AoE, 0 vert and.... darkness?  elemental?  Just something to be close yet different.

Regarding mineralize, I really don't think that'll work.  But taking a note from Saved Time, perhaps something to the tune of "Stolen time"?  Cancels slow, inflicts 50% HP damage?  Moderate to high success rate?

Hmm... maybe Iai Strike can be changed to -20 Br. I don't think I'll let the AI have access to it though, for a few reasons, that should be pretty obvious.

A Dark Swordskill that isn't Dark Wave, Darkness or Soul Eater, hmm... we'll get back to that later (just found out I have only 30 Minutes left in the library! Hence forth maybe not even a sentence per skill.

Stolen Time sounds good, it's a better fitting theme, in my opinion.




Quote from: "philsov"
Quote
What other classes are in desperate need of skills?

Inquistor, Warder, and Dragoon notably.  Also need a few names in this batch.

Quote
any idea for only three skils for only one of each family would be greatly appreciated as well)
noted!

Archers - Bow-weilders with a hint of magic!  And, yes, this one is a bit hard without overlapping.  They both gained a shot with a 25% proc of an invoker spell -- I chose one from each of their books but maybe a cross-swap would be better?  idk.  Invoker spell choice was the one most likely to connect, because procs that ultimately fail are lame.  Both also gained an AoE spell, and the cover fire idea is all skip sandwich iirc.  Also stepped on monks' toes a bit, and then straight stole from Dragoon but eh.

Iconics:
Beso Toxico - PW*WP with 100% chance to poison target.  Weapon range, MP 10.
Dominate Demon - Randomly inflicts Slow, Stop, DA, or DM onto a monster.  3 CTR, 12 MP.  100%.
(Lifeforce Shot) - Self-destruct formula, 8 range linear 8 vert, 30 MP, 100% Confusion

Good iconics. I like it.

Quote
Ramza:
Divine Bolt - Sp + 50% chance to petrify undead.  Given to Ramza because he needs more light-based stuff.
Take Aim = PA*WP (maybe normal weapon strike?  I don't know if the goal is to inflict more than normal damage or just do unavoidable), 100% accuracy.  Given to Ramza since Rad has the thing from Knight.
Mist Disperse - MP damage, 20%+MA; 100%
Volley - moderate MP cost.  Bow/xbow only?  4 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Weapon Strike damage into the area.  
Dark Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with a 25% chance to cast ?whatever the name of Ramza's dark invoker spell is? on the target.
Entice Demon - 100% Monster charm. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

Divine Bolt is good.
Take Aim, is just a 100% hit.
Mist Disperse looks good.
Volley is an interesting skill. Good work with that.
Dark Shot (nice reference to FFXII) I like the concept and thinks it works well.
Entice Demon... Charm is very powerful and almost completely rids the point of Dominate Demon, we'll have to reconsider that.

Quote
Rad:
Black Out Bolt - 100% Blind, but deals no damage.  2 MP.
Cupid's Arrow - Because Rad is a charming mofo.  MA+60%, weapon range, 3 CTR, 18 MP.
Cover Fire - 3 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Enduring (perpetuating?  performing? whatever) at.... 6 CTR intervals.  Uses truth formula to fire up to 3 arrows into the affected area every cycle.  
Lit Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with 25% chance to cast Shock on the target
?Cancel Arrow? - 100% chance to cancel charging and performing
Soothe Demon - 100% Monster Sleep. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

Black Out Bolt looks good.
Cupid's Arrow makes sense, I like it (better he than Ramza, since it would work on males...)
Cover Fire - I Like this! A good idea all around!
Lit Shot looks good.
Cancel Arrow... hmm, sort of steps on Arbalist, we should probably think up something else for that.
Soothe Demon is the same as Charm Demon, it steps all over Dominate Demon unfortunately. Unfortunately there is no skill that makes it not 100%. I wonder if we can change that, hmm... I'll keep my eye out for that.


Quote
Quote
Inquistor - EXPECT IT.  Stole a bit from Meliadoul.  When it doubt, give it a swordskill!Drawing a blank on these skills... maybe I'll thumb through the list from Ivalice Arena now that it's rather kaput.

Iconics:
Mirror Stance - self-only Reflect infliction at 100%.
Head Cracker - PA+65% chance to inflict Addle.  (damage + 100% seemed too good, and damage + 25% seemed to weak, so... goodbye damage)
(Blissful Indulgence) - MP restoration to ally?

I like the change to Head Cracker..
The rest look good.

Quote
Ramza:
Tear Away - 100% removal of magical benefits from target.  3 range, light MP cost, instant.  (Rad has the other dispel in monk)
?Shield Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets shield.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
???
Steady Feet - Range 0, AoE 1 vert 3;  100% cancel Don't Move

Difficult one to work with.. hmm,  I think that Steady Feet should apply to all movement impairing effects. Don't Act, Don't Move, Stop. And have 2 AoE.

Quote
Rad:
Mana Strip - removes X% (30%?) mana from user.  This makes Rad/Ramza 2 and 2 for mana burn.
?Accessory Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets accessory.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
St. Ajora's Orb - Tar_F * MA * X damage.  Range 4, single target.  Non elemental.
Stable Feet - Range 0, AoE 1 vert 3; 100% cancel Slow

Accessory break is interesting. Though we already have "Steal Accessory" in Gambler's Shady Deal, but it works. Stable Feet Canceling Slow, is very nice!

Quote
Trancer - We need to see what formulas do and do not work with geomancy, and more importantly concrete out the rest of the classes before solidifying this.
Agreed.

~

Quote
Dragoon - Really there's several iconics I wish I could put up, but alas.  This'll be fun to divvy....

Iconics
Jump - Duh.  SP*WP damage.  5 range, infinite vert imo.  
Dragon's Cry - 2 range, 2 vert.  Success = PA+90%.  Revives target with 1% HP.  (to review, Fairy rezzes with 50% HP at 4 range and charge time, and cantor 20% with 1 range... this might work?)
(Dragon Lord) - Self-only Float, Reraise, Berserk, Innocent, Reflect, Protect, Shell

Ramza:
Wisdom's Downfall - TarCurMP dmg, 18 MP.  
Bahamut Breath - 3 range linear, MA*10 damage, 30 MP.  Possibly elemental.
Vital Sense - PA+30% to seperately inflict several bad statii
Dragon's Roar - 100% Slow, Self AoE 2 vert 3 MP 32.  Slooooow.
????
Highwind - PA*(high), 4 range. single target.  Deals physical damage and knocks enemy back.  Only useable while under Float status.

The Iconics look good. Vital Sense is one of Alicia's skills. Dragon Gambit has a 50% chance to cast that, is that whaty ou meant by chance?
Highwind is Great! Especially with how you combined it with Rad's abilities.

Quote
Rad:
Soul Sphere - PA*WP MP drain strike.  MP 45.
?Some other FF dragon breath? - 2 range 1 AoE 2 vert 30 MP MA*10 damage.  Possible elemental.
Mimic Tiamat - 1 range, 3-way attack.  
???
Dragon's Wings - Fa's * (MA + 180) chance to inflict Float.  Light MP cost, very low CTR.  3 range, 2 AoE.
???

~

I like all of these, we'll get to the naming on the other Dragon Breath (probably will be Earth, we have a noticable absence of those.)

Quote
Warder - I knew I missed one of em~

Iconics:
Fortify - Range 0 AoE 1 vert 3.  100% Protect
Muster - PA+120%, range 1 + self.  Esuna effect.  Moralizes himself or allies, letting them shake off negative status.
(unknown)

Ramza:
Grapple - CT00 with perservere!
Crumble - Cancels Protect, Shell, Reflect, or Defend and deals 33% damage
Daze - 1 range, 100% Blind.  No damage (same as Rad's Archer's Blackout)
Knockout - 1 range.  Fa*(MA + 160%) success rate; sleep infliction.
Swordslap - SUPER-light damage (MA*1-ish).  1 range, useful for canceling charm, confusion, and sleep without harming your ally.
????

Good Iconics, really like Muster.
Daze is interesting but when will you blind rather than attack?
Knockout looks good.
SwordSlap is an interesting reference to FFV, I like that.
Quote
Rad:
Relieve - 1 range; cancels defending or sleep, healing target for 33%.  Max success rate.
Kick - 1 range, PA-based damage with target knockback
Unknown - Previously Ramza-only status infliction at decent success rate
Snuff - 1 range; cancels sleep, damaging target for 100%.  Moderate success rate.
Steadfast - self-only.  Heals for 10% every 6 ticks until canceled/out of MP.  Preferably also inflicts defend but can a formula do both?
???

Whew.  I think that's most of em.  Hessain and Red Mage will be updated in a few days once I'm done updated the spreadsheet with all the new and properly divided skills.

Kick, hmm... doesn't that only work with one skills?
Unknown will have to be taken a closer look when I have the luxur of time.
Steadfast looks Great! I like that.

I apologize for these rather short analysis. I'll get to the rest of everything... probably tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 18, 2010, 04:10:24 PM
Quote
Soothe Demon is the same as Charm Demon, it steps all over Dominate Demon unfortunately. Unfortunately there is no skill that makes it not 100%. I wonder if we can change that, hmm... I'll keep my eye out for that.

Bleh.  I'd like for there to be more monster-only skills, but if we're capped at 100% then I'm at a loss on what to do without overriding dominate.  Hm.

Quote
Cancel Arrow... hmm, sort of steps on Arbalist, we should probably think up something else for that.

It's the same as Golden Hand (effect-wise) from the monk, only its single target and this one is actually on Rad instead of Ramza.  And, riiiiight, Arbalist.  Need to split up that one too.

Quote
hmm, I think that Steady Feet should apply to all movement impairing effects. Don't Act, Don't Move, Stop. And have 2 AoE.

2 AoE certainly.  We'll give one of them to Stable Feet and spread out the dispel loving some.  Don't Move + Stop and Don't Act + Slow, maybe?

Quote
Accessory break is interesting. Though we already have "Steal Accessory" in Gambler's Shady Deal, but it works.

The idea is to negate some evasion/immunities found in both accessories and shields on the target.  I know it steps onto Gambler's territory a bit, but regarding accessory this -breaks- it, and with the shield thing it overshadows the gambler, but it's at least on Ramza (who also knows Rust Shield) and we can give it an epic MP cost to compensate?

Quote
The Iconics look good. Vital Sense is one of Alicia's skills. Dragon Gambit has a 50% chance to cast that, is that whaty ou meant by chance?

Yes.  The parent text wasn't exactly clear to me so I just kinda jumped with it.  Is there a skill similar to vital sense that we can give a gambit-like skill to Rad as well?

Quote
Daze is interesting but when will you blind rather than attack?

Good question but black out bolt does the same thing >_>.  Perhaps on an evasion-heavy/tanky enemy to weaken him before trying to pile on the damage?

Quote
SwordSlap is an interesting reference to FFV, I like that.

Hee.  I actually think it might be more useful under another class.  Since Warder gets muster I doubt it'll see much use here.  Inquistor already gets minor dispel in the form of the Feet thing... where else can this go, effect-wise?  We can redo swordslap to be a weaker (SP*WP?) attack with a 25% chance to don't act similar to the monk skill, except this is Ramza-only.  

Quote
Ramza:
White Wind - Restore low HP. High range. I dunno, it should basically be a cure spell that grants low HP but is larger in range than other cure spells.

Rad:
Dragon Sword - Absorb HP and MP from enemy. Wait, is this even possible? It's a throwback to FFV; that's the only reason I'm suggesting it.
Bangaa Cry - High MP cost, high damage, low range, small area. May need to be renamed.

Probably not white wind -- I think we're pretty much set on healing skills.  Regen, possibly, I'll need to relook who all grants regen and how.  
Dragon Sword - I think we are in fact lacking a drain-HP strike, and it can certainly be present somewhere.  Maybe not on dragoon but it'll certainly help fill a gap.  
Bangaa Cry is pretty good -- it'll juxtapose well with Dragon's Roar.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 18, 2010, 06:14:26 PM
And man, these jobs are getting harder and harder to keep up.

Arbalist - A crossbow using heavy damage user that somehow needs to be distinct from Archer and hopefully have minimal overlapping skills.  Buh.

Iconics
Elemental Shot - strong charged ability with various elements attached to it.  
Riskbreaker - Weapon damage with a proc of itself (which can proc itself, which can proc itself, etc)
(?????)

Ramza
??? - 6 range 0 vert tol linear attack dealing PA-based damage
Autocrossbow - Uses old repeating fist formula to pelt the enemy with a deluge of bolts, 3 range single target
Execute - Uses Death formula to deal 21% dark damage to critical targets.  Weapon range, single target.  
Desperation - self only, critical-only.  Adds haste and innocent at 100%
????
????

Rad
??? - 4 range 0 vert tol 3-way attack dealing PA-based damage
Point Blank - 1 range 0 vert tol - PA+WP+X attack.  High damage.
?Salted Wound? - Damage dealt = damage taken thus far (aka climhazzard) (trumps Execute, I know;  but this job is off the Red Mage radar and needs a perk imo)
Second Wind - self-only, critical-only.  Adds Berserk and Regen at 100%.
????
????
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 18, 2010, 08:04:14 PM
Quote from: "mav"
Just gonna shoot out some random ideas, let's see if we can flesh 'em out or make 'em work.

Dragoons
Ramza:
White Wind - Restore low HP. High range. I dunno, it should basically be a cure spell that grants low HP but is larger in range than other cure spells.

Rad:
Dragon Sword - Absorb HP and MP from enemy. Wait, is this even possible? It's a throwback to FFV; that's the only reason I'm suggesting it.
Bangaa Cry - High MP cost, high damage, low range, small area. May need to be renamed.

I'll try and get to the others some time soon.


I'm sorry Mav, I was in such a rush yesterday, I completely missed this post.

White wind, as Philsov says, is a bit much for the Dragoon. It is more of a Blue Mage skill, than a Dragoon's skill (except FFIX, which is likely why it was suggested)

Dragon Sword can be done with the 50% Chance proc. Would that work for Rad's 50% Chance, Philsov? Absorbing HP And MP is no small feat. Also an early Spear allows this also. (will need a different name, unless... it can only be used with Swords?)

Bangaa Cry - A reference to the fallen race, it has vanished since the Cataclysm. I think that works rather well, its effect though...  I think I have an idea. Make it Random Hits, deal Immense damage, and have it Spin Fist Range. This means this would be more of a skill to be used to make a quick escape, or to those clever with the vert (which will be 3) Though it would only hit once. Maybe a bit too circumstantial to use well?



Quote from: "philsov"
Quote
Soothe Demon is the same as Charm Demon, it steps all over Dominate Demon unfortunately. Unfortunately there is no skill that makes it not 100%. I wonder if we can change that, hmm... I'll keep my eye out for that.

Quote
Bleh.  I'd like for there to be more monster-only skills, but if we're capped at 100% then I'm at a loss on what to do without overriding dominate.  Hm.

If we can actually change the % I will consider these other ideas.

Quote
Cancel Arrow... hmm, sort of steps on Arbalist, we should probably think up something else for that.

Quote
It's the same as Golden Hand (effect-wise) from the monk, only its single target and this one is actually on Rad instead of Ramza.  And, riiiiight, Arbalist.  Need to split up that one too.

I suppose if its Rad's only Cancel it wouldn't be unthought of. Sure let's go with that.

Quote
hmm, I think that Steady Feet should apply to all movement impairing effects. Don't Act, Don't Move, Stop. And have 2 AoE.

Quote
2 AoE certainly.  We'll give one of them to Stable Feet and spread out the dispel loving some.  Don't Move + Stop and Don't Act + Slow, maybe?

I like the sound of that, each one has varied use.

Quote
Accessory break is interesting. Though we already have "Steal Accessory" in Gambler's Shady Deal, but it works.

Quote
The idea is to negate some evasion/immunities found in both accessories and shields on the target.  I know it steps onto Gambler's territory a bit, but regarding accessory this -breaks- it, and with the shield thing it overshadows the gambler, but it's at least on Ramza (who also knows Rust Shield) and we can give it an epic MP cost to compensate?

Eh, not necessary to go That far. Though it should have fairly high MP cost, because of the range involved.

Quote
The Iconics look good. Vital Sense is one of Alicia's skills. Dragon Gambit has a 50% chance to cast that, is that whaty ou meant by chance?

Quote
Yes.  The parent text wasn't exactly clear to me so I just kinda jumped with it.  Is there a skill similar to vital sense that we can give a gambit-like skill to Rad as well?

Yep, my thoughts on that are above.

Quote
Daze is interesting but when will you blind rather than attack?

Quote
Good question but black out bolt does the same thing >_>.  Perhaps on an evasion-heavy/tanky enemy to weaken him before trying to pile on the damage?

Hmm... if only we could make Blind worth it, well we'll think about that down the line.

Quote
SwordSlap is an interesting reference to FFV, I like that.

Quote
Hee.  I actually think it might be more useful under another class.  Since Warder gets muster I doubt it'll see much use here.  Inquistor already gets minor dispel in the form of the Feet thing... where else can this go, effect-wise?  We can redo swordslap to be a weaker (SP*WP?) attack with a 25% chance to don't act similar to the monk skill, except this is Ramza-only.

Did that formula get worked out? I recall that Sp * WP doesn't actually support status. A class where this would work, hmm... It would ideally be a blade they would be weilding... further ideas on that is needed, I think.

Quote
Ramza:
White Wind - Restore low HP. High range. I dunno, it should basically be a cure spell that grants low HP but is larger in range than other cure spells.

Rad:
Dragon Sword - Absorb HP and MP from enemy. Wait, is this even possible? It's a throwback to FFV; that's the only reason I'm suggesting it.
Bangaa Cry - High MP cost, high damage, low range, small area. May need to be renamed.

Quote
Probably not white wind -- I think we're pretty much set on healing skills.  Regen, possibly, I'll need to relook who all grants regen and how.  
Dragon Sword - I think we are in fact lacking a drain-HP strike, and it can certainly be present somewhere.  Maybe not on dragoon but it'll certainly help fill a gap.  
Bangaa Cry is pretty good -- it'll juxtapose well with Dragon's Roar.

Ah, somehow missed that it would also need to absorb HP... not sure how I missed that, actually. Hmm... Though we don't have an HP Drain Strike, do we? I wonder what that would fit...?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 18, 2010, 11:59:43 PM
Wow! Sorry Philsov! I must have completely missed this post.


Quote from: "philsov"
And man, these jobs are getting harder and harder to keep up.

Arbalist - A crossbow using heavy damage user that somehow needs to be distinct from Archer and hopefully have minimal overlapping skills.  Buh.

Iconics
Elemental Shot - strong charged ability with various elements attached to it.  
Riskbreaker - Weapon damage with a proc of itself (which can proc itself, which can proc itself, etc)
(?????)

Riskbreaker is the Secret Skill, heh. Still need a second iconic...

Quote
Ramza
??? - 6 range 0 vert tol linear attack dealing PA-based damage
Autocrossbow - Uses old repeating fist formula to pelt the enemy with a deluge of bolts, 3 range single target
Execute - Uses Death formula to deal 21% dark damage to critical targets.  Weapon range, single target.  
Desperation - self only, critical-only.  Adds haste and innocent at 100%
????
????

First Skill looks pretty pretty good.
Autocrossbow is Very nice! I like that, we can include an FFVI reference and put it in as a functioning skill.
Execute looks good.
Desperation is a nice touch.

Quote
Rad
??? - 4 range 0 vert tol 3-way attack dealing PA-based damage
Point Blank - 1 range 0 vert tol - PA+WP+X attack.  High damage.
?Salted Wound? - Damage dealt = damage taken thus far (aka climhazzard) (trumps Execute, I know;  but this job is off the Red Mage radar and needs a perk imo)
Second Wind - self-only, critical-only.  Adds Berserk and Regen at 100%.
????
????

Hmm... "Circling Arrow" for a name? Hmm... no that's no good. Eh, we'll figure out the name later.
Point Blank looks good.
Salted Wound would need a high MP cost.
As before Second Wind is fine (I love that you kept the Berserk theme to Rad alone). I can't see us thinking up more skills for Arbalist, having only six each, is acceptable to me for this job.

Regardless this is good.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 19, 2010, 12:32:51 AM
UPDATE!

First post has all of the current ideas. (as of this posting)
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: mav on August 19, 2010, 02:03:11 AM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
White wind, as Philsov says, is a bit much for the Dragoon. It is more of a Blue Mage skill, than a Dragoon's skill (except FFIX, which is likely why it was suggested)
That is indeed why it was suggested. Anyways, that's fine. I wasn't sure whether this job class needed a curing tech, so I figured I'd suggest it.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Dragon Sword can be done with the 50% Chance proc. Would that work for Rad's 50% Chance, Philsov? Absorbing HP And MP is no small feat. Also an early Spear allows this also. (will need a different name, unless... it can only be used with Swords?)
Hmm, I guess we should rename it then. I don't see many people wanting to equip their Dragoons with swords over spears.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Bangaa Cry - A reference to the fallen race, it has vanished since the Cataclysm. I think that works rather well, its effect though... I think I have an idea. Make it Random Hits, deal Immense damage, and have it Spin Fist Range. This means this would be more of a skill to be used to make a quick escape, or to those clever with the vert (which will be 3) Though it would only hit once. Maybe a bit too circumstantial to use well?
Random, immense hits sounds pretty good. You seem to have a better outlook on this than I do.

So does Ramza need one more Dragoon skill then?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 19, 2010, 02:06:16 AM
Yep, Ramza needs one more. I may have another idea, but I'll get to that another time.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: mav on August 22, 2010, 12:59:41 AM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Dragon Sword will need a different name, unless... it can only be used with Swords?
Since it's in the Dragoon skill set, it should be usable with all their weapons. That same skill has been called Lancet, Spirit Surge, Life Surge, Empowerer, and Dragon in the localizations of other FF games.

And for Ramza's final Dragoon skill how about something like Crimson Wings, from Revenant Wings? Just a straight line of damage. I dunno how much MP this should cost or how much damage this should deal, and I certainly don't know what formula it'd use. Maybe this skill would be too simple.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: SilvasRuin on August 23, 2010, 06:14:15 AM
I'm not sure how they came up with Lancet, but it seems to be the most traditional name for the ability.

I'd sooner name it after the Red Wings, though... were the dragoons considered a part of that or separate?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 23, 2010, 05:31:02 PM
ok, I recompiled the status information in excel.

I didn't bother doing this with the damage/healing moves, I know those are rather evenly shared and in proper allocations already.  So feel free to just focus on the 2nd sheet, labeled status.  

On the low end of things:

Petrify, Frog, and Undead inflict are non-existant; Ramza can inflict Undead 13% of the time with one ability, and then petrify undead.
Innocent and Faith are rare; there's Polarize on one of them in gambler (at 50/50) and then the mirrors in Cantor.  Rad's at 0.
Dead and Death Sentence are currently only available through Esperblade, and then Rad has a dead proc.
Confusion is only possible on Ramza with Esperblade
Shell is only possible as self-only or via Wall Rune (availability unknown)

On the high end of things:
Ramza - can inflict Protect 6 times, Regen 5, and slow 7.  Of these, many are self-only or single target, so I think we'll be find.
Rad - can berserk 5 times, 3 of which are self-only.  Whatever, that's fine.

Everything else is at 4 inflicts or lower, which is a bit better of a spread.

Suggestions:

Ramza gains the ability to inflict dead and/or death sentence and petrify as Hessain
Rad gains the ability to Innocent, Faith, Frog, and Undead as Red Mage
Warder -really- needs a damaging ability in its skillset

Scryer is too... spread out in function in personal tastes.  I'd replace Freedom Rune completely (maybe a PA/2 * PA rune?  Round off the damage front).  Also beast rune should probably go as well, perhaps replaced by an upgraded body rune at 120-ish HP?  This trims the redundancy with the more complete esuna-effects and the removal of offensive status makes the skillset as a whole more balanced imo.  Everything else can be balanced around availability and item price.  Body Rune is good for auto-potion, though.  50 is a good number.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 23, 2010, 05:39:39 PM
I will definitely take a look at these, when I have the time (only have 30 minutes before class) I'll let you know what my thoughts are on these, likely tomorrow or Wednesday. I agree fully with you on the statuses, though are you certain you want them so unique to only those certain classes? Also, yes I fully agree with you on the Scryer changes as well and that will be done accordingly. Also were you thinking about any split between the two?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 24, 2010, 02:38:24 PM
Quote
I agree fully with you on the statuses, though are you certain you want them so unique to only those certain classes?

Frog, Petrify, Undead, Dead, and Death Sentence are the particularly worst of the bunch between their duration and overall effect.  I don't really mind these being rare and/or only available on the final classes.  Faith and Innocent might be able to find homes elsewhere on the job tree, however.  Inquistor, for example, is still lacking in skills and it may be fitting to give it those status effects (which also opens up at least one ability slot for Red Mage).  

Quote
Also, yes I fully agree with you on the Scryer changes as well and that will be done accordingly. Also were you thinking about any split between the two?

Nothing more than the Faith and Fury thing.  There's currently 14 total items, and of these I can assume 4 (Deepening, Prestige, Faith, Fury) are incredibly rare, leaving us with 10 full time normal abilities which isn't enough to actively divide without like.... 8 "iconics", at which point there really is no point imo.

Edit:

How do stats and growth work in mercenaries?  I know you're planning on a level cap of 50, but are the growths going to be vanilla-like in nature, with similar base stats and growths, or did you plan on tweaking anything around in any field?  Just curious so I can start proposing some hard coeffecients for all this stuff.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 25, 2010, 05:50:53 PM
Well, I was going to get rid of all growth aside from HP/MP growth and keep the rest as balanced all around. So one can switch in and out of classes without the worry that they aren't "tailored" for it. Also Male and Female's base stats will be evened so that there is little disparity between the two (mainly done for the benefit of Rad/Ramza)

Also Inquisitor having those two skills makes a good deal of sense.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 26, 2010, 01:30:48 PM
and... what are all the growths normalized to?  Is speed growth still 100?  Is PA and MA and HP scaling roughly the same as you'd see in Vanilla/1.3?  In general I'd suggest increased HP scaling so things are less one-shots, but you may also want to go the reduced PA/MA route.  Or you might think its fine how it is.  

Or I can run some numbers and do a proposal of sorts, but I didn't know if you'd ventured that far into the scheme yet >_>.

edit:  rereading this, I can venture a guess to like... 255 growths for PA/MA/Sp?  I... don't really agree with that.  At low levels everyone is too strong relative to HP, or at high levels the opposite.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 26, 2010, 09:16:54 PM
Eh? What? Heh, I wasn't very clear... It's all normalized to Sp - 100 PA/MA - 50. HP ranges from... 15 Growth to 8 Growth.MP Growth ranges from ... 16 - 8 Should I lower these and try to balance them more accordingly? Admittedly that is a rather large disparity on this matter.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 26, 2010, 09:29:25 PM
Quote
Should I lower these and try to balance them more accordingly?

possibly.

Before I start running numbers, any thoughts on what the males/females will change to?  Right now it's 6/4 and 4/6 PA/MA, respectively.  Were you planning on 5/5 or 6/6 or something else for level 1 stats?
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 26, 2010, 10:16:43 PM
They'll be evened out. I think 6/6 works well for starting stats. Mainly because some of the weapons and skills are nearly useless with anything less than that.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 27, 2010, 02:41:22 PM
I mispoke.  Baseline is 5/5, though I suppose its expanded via multipliers.  Either way, raw value of 81920.

So... with 100 Speed growth, a 120 SPM class will be rocking 10 speed at level 50.  This caps most charging effects to 6 CTR between I can only assume a speed equipment or two plus haste, lest you want some skills to only be viable with short charge, and those can be extended to 12.

With 50 PAC/MAC, a 140 PAM/140 MAM class will be rocking 13 PA at level 50, with 10 at 25 and 7 at 1.  

Meanwhile, an 8 HPC + 140 HPM class will have 288 HP by level 50 (168 at 25), and a 15 HPC + 140 HPM class will have 181 HP at 50 with 111 at 25.  So the difference is 100 HP, which might be too much of a stretch, but I don't know how the health gains from helm/armor is either.  Either way, time to throw out some numbers for all these X's and Y's...
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 27, 2010, 10:32:54 PM
Helm/Armor is rather low, so yes, I think that HP/MP gap needs covered. The rest look pretty appropriate, what numbers do you suggest? (Also you start at Level 10 in Mercenaries, thus everything around you starts at level 10 as well)
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 30, 2010, 05:39:33 PM
Well that is an interesting and pleasant twist.  

If we set HP growth for base class to be 8, which is assured through level 10, and then you're a full time HPC class of 15, the HP at 50 is 232 compared to the 288 of an 8 HPC class (at 140 multipliers all around), and a gap of 50 is far more paletteable.

However, the twist to this is that enemy units still suffer from this 100 HP gap.  If we wanted to make enemies not as affected, and assuming a 50 HP gap is ideal, then to match up with an 8 HPC @ 140 HPM at level 50, the lowest growth can be is either 10 (44 gap) or 11 (61 gap).

Ultimately I still think HP needs to be boosted through either growth, multipliers, and/or equips -- or WP/PA/MA reduced, so things are less one-shotty than in normal FFT and 1.3, but this is just me projecting here.  I think all your WP's are a bit lower, which is welcome -- spells can be curbed with X's and Y's, and then all we'd need to do is curb bare-fisted output and we're money... maybe.

A more radical shift would be what zodiac brought up in a discussion about CoP -- high stats are awesome because they allow for a lot more wiggle room.  In low stats, a single point drop in PA plays out drastically different with modifiers like attack up and protect in place.  But when the total PA is like 30, losing a point or two really doesn't provide that level of offset by percentage.  So a unit doing 150 damage to a 300 HP unit has the same effect as a unit doing 300 damage to a 600 HP unit, in the grand scheme of things, but the latter simply flows a lot better, math wise.  Only wrench are enemy boss units, because then they're either capped at 999 with equips or go up to the ???/1000+ level, but even ???'s are able to equip weapons, shields, and accessories provided there isn't HP boosting present.

I know I'm making two simultaneous proposals, but I think they both have merit.  Or, if you don't like, just stick to the either 10 or 11 for HPC gappage.  And while Ramza can get his pre-HP stat modified, Rad will be subjected to growth in whatever class he's in, which seeds all future growth notably.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on August 31, 2010, 06:14:05 PM
I am Very sorry Philsov that I wasn't able to get to this yesterday, I have 10 minutes before class and hardly had enough time to check the forums, let alone post once. (It turns out my sister still hasn't paid our internet bill and said now its pushed back All the way to Sept 23rd, oy... Still getting a good amount of work done though. Onwards with the matter at hand.

Quote from: "philsov"
Well that is an interesting and pleasant twist.  

If we set HP growth for base class to be 8, which is assured through level 10, and then you're a full time HPC class of 15, the HP at 50 is 232 compared to the 288 of an 8 HPC class (at 140 multipliers all around), and a gap of 50 is far more paletteable.

However, the twist to this is that enemy units still suffer from this 100 HP gap.  If we wanted to make enemies not as affected, and assuming a 50 HP gap is ideal, then to match up with an 8 HPC @ 140 HPM at level 50, the lowest growth can be is either 10 (44 gap) or 11 (61 gap).

That is a Very large problem. I think 10/11 is the best way to deal with this, and have 8 be the lowest it can go?

Quote
Ultimately I still think HP needs to be boosted through either growth, multipliers, and/or equips -- or WP/PA/MA reduced, so things are less one-shotty than in normal FFT and 1.3, but this is just me projecting here.  I think all your WP's are a bit lower, which is welcome -- spells can be curbed with X's and Y's, and then all we'd need to do is curb bare-fisted output and we're money... maybe.

Bare Fist we still need to make not two swords... but... I was wondering, why don't we make it WP ^2 and have its WP set at 4? This would guarantee a 32 damage hit. (Because we can't make it Not two-swordable apparently...)

Quote
A more radical shift would be what zodiac brought up in a discussion about CoP -- high stats are awesome because they allow for a lot more wiggle room.  In low stats, a single point drop in PA plays out drastically different with modifiers like attack up and protect in place.  But when the total PA is like 30, losing a point or two really doesn't provide that level of offset by percentage.  So a unit doing 150 damage to a 300 HP unit has the same effect as a unit doing 300 damage to a 600 HP unit, in the grand scheme of things, but the latter simply flows a lot better, math wise.  Only wrench are enemy boss units, because then they're either capped at 999 with equips or go up to the ???/1000+ level, but even ???'s are able to equip weapons, shields, and accessories provided there isn't HP boosting present.

I know I'm making two simultaneous proposals, but I think they both have merit.  Or, if you don't like, just stick to the either 10 or 11 for HPC gappage.  And while Ramza can get his pre-HP stat modified, Rad will be subjected to growth in whatever class he's in, which seeds all future growth notably.

The stats themselves aren't lowered. It's the WP and X/Y's that are for the most part. The stat's are always as they have been in FFT, but this does bring up an interesting dilemma, should we Drastically lower the HP Growth? So that the highest is 8 and the lowest is 5 for the classes? That would give a lot of HP, but would it create an unwelcome element of stalemate and a "forever game"? The problem I have with the Enormous stats are the outputs of damage, clearly. No matter what, a 30 PA unit, even with a 2-3 WP unit is going to deal upwards to 60-90 damage before Zodiac. And finally the stronger weapons, even if they are only 4-5 WP, and that's not including the skills.  Even a slight alteration would dramatically increase or decrease damage. It just doesn't mesh that well for me.
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: philsov on August 31, 2010, 10:46:31 PM
Quote
The problem I have with the Enormous stats are the outputs of damage, clearly

Certainly, but HP should be set relative in either case so the same %HP is identical in both cases.  Obviously WP would increase proportionately as well. But, regardless, we'll go with your scheme which certainly has some potential.  If some things start getting absurd we can scale back some stuff and cover up the ripples :).
Title: Re: Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!
Post by: LastingDawn on September 04, 2010, 06:45:39 PM
Hehe, yes agreed on that. If there was something crucial I missed in this way of things, with you to assist you should be able to find a way to remedy that (I'm not very good at math myself).