Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => Mercenaries => Topic started by: LastingDawn on February 03, 2009, 01:20:39 PM

Title: Knight Rehaul for Mercenaries (Rad/Ramza Skillset Update!)
Post by: LastingDawn on February 03, 2009, 01:20:39 PM
August 22nd 2010

Thanks to Philsov and Mav for these skillset ideas!

Knights, Heretical Holy Men[/size]

Knights in Mercenaries are Nothing like their 1.3 or Vanilla counterparts. They have taken the "idealized Holy and Dark Knights" which many people and tried to put them into one. Of course their powers are nothing compared to true Holy and Dark Knights, I just thought the base fun to play off of. Not to mention allows a use for Worker 8's fantastic formulas!
As per suggestions, the Knights will have a bit more equipment variation, including Spears and Crossbows. (I always found it strange they couldn't equip them...) Mainly a PA class, of course. The fancy names are to show that Knight's are not as dimwitted as the games make them look, it also was to give them an interesting twist.

While a few of their skills are clearly based around Dark forces, they also have many Light moves as well, their secret skill is Holy based, so it tells you which one they lean towards. Also if you find that uncomfortable, just think of it of "fight fire with fire", why not fight "evil" with it's own power?

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New Equip: Spears, Crossbows, Flails


Quote
Knights - got kicked out of both Holy and Dark knight school, kinda waffling around with both and willing to sacrifice their own well being to get the job done.

Iconics
Somber Drive - melee range, PA based.  Nasty damage with nasty recoil.
Battle Cry - Because Haste infliction ought to be shared <3
(Sanct Saber) -

Ramza
Abraxas - Good range (5?  Greater than xbow, imo), single target, 30% recoil, 15 MP.  PA-based damage.
Ironclad - self/ally only - inflicts protect, regen, and slow.  Moderate MP, instant.
Chaste Slice - low faith enemies suffer~.  14 MP, instant, weapon range.  MA-based???
Iai Strike - Moderate MP Cost, can only be used with certain weapon types. 50% Chance to -20 Br.
Final Sacrifice - Must be critical Sacrifice the last bit of your life force for a high damage sword strike.
Cimmerian Edge - A Dark Elemental Sword Strike

Rad
Nix = 50% chance to transform dead unit into a crystal - 30 MP, weapon range, small CT.
Transfusion = Range 0, AoE 1.  Heals surrounding units for 40% HP at the expense of 20% on the self.
Swiftness - 15 MP.  Unevadeable weapon strike (use ARH!  no guns).
Fanatic's Folly - Higher damage to Higher faith units.
Sacred Symbol - Holy Elemental Sword strike.
???
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Post by: SentinalBlade on February 03, 2009, 01:24:26 PM
Personally,i think having the "Ruin" skills are a bit of a nerf. without the ability to have modifiable range, they lost most of their appeal to me. without that modifiable range, it is tough choice to put on something range oriented. having skills with a range of 3 on a range oriented class is very...well its just not as useful as it could be.

Dont get me wrong, i like how it gave meele classes a bit of range and more versatility. but i find myself either breaking a weapon with a high meele PA class, or physically attacking, rather than nerf an MA to death and then proceed to mop up.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 03, 2009, 01:27:39 PM
True as it stands that is really only useful against Zodiacs and certain bosses... Speed Ruin is nice though, always loved the Slow from 1.3. That's really about it though.
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Post by: Shade on February 03, 2009, 02:25:25 PM
Maybe you should make equiment break's range 3 instead of stat break's, like that they would have lower change to break then ruins on 1.3.
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Post by: Dokurider on February 03, 2009, 02:58:38 PM
I suggested before that Ruins should reduce their respective stat by a percentage, mostly to deal with monsters. Archy-poo didn't like it. Just throwing that out there again.

Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?
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Post by: boomkick on February 03, 2009, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: "Dokurider"
Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?


That sounds interesting, but i was going for a more of a dueling type.

Stance (1, 2, 3). Basically a charged attack, yet it is unavoidable.
Guard Break- Destroys both the assessary (?) and the shield of a defending character.
Bull Ram- Basically a Dash Tackle, but it does more damage and the shield is there (couldn't this fit the warder?).
Magic Strike- Fitting Magic into his sword, he slashes very very far away, but at a huge penalty to him. (Destroy would work)
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Post by: Archael on February 03, 2009, 05:43:31 PM
1.3 changes are not enough

not anymore

the rest of Mercenaries jobs are much more viable / can do pretty unique things

and 1.3 Knight would be left in the dust
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Post by: Dokurider on February 03, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
Maybe diversify their equipment? Specifically, weapons?
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Post by: Shade on February 03, 2009, 06:46:12 PM
I think my idea got shifted away.
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Post by: Dokurider on February 03, 2009, 07:02:53 PM
I liked your idea, actually.
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Post by: Shade on February 03, 2009, 07:58:59 PM
Good thing that you liked it.

They could also have multiple breaks that they can break helmet and armor or weaopn or shield. but not in range it would be god modded.
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Post by: boomkick on February 04, 2009, 03:17:54 AM
Taking something from FF9

Stock Break- Does damage to enemies in an area.
ThunderSlash- Does good damage to an enemy.
Dark Blade- Deals great damage at the cost of life.


Battle Cry- Increases PA (Or adds Haste) to himself and an area around him.
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Post by: Archael on February 04, 2009, 03:22:56 AM
make Battle Cry MP Cost with a CT and add +1 PA to everything around it, enemies included

and yeah

let's give them some skills (some new sword skills might be cool too.. something like Gladiator's FFTA sword skills.. all melee range)


[All Require Sword, Melee Range, MP Cost, Instant]

Wind Blade - Wind
Tiamat Formula, no damage bonus, Evadeable, Requires Sword (so MA intensive jobs can't abuse it, get rid of equip sword), Weapon Strike
Deals 4(???) low power MA based hits... Kaimatachi (or some other wind animation on hit, Sandstorm???)




Dark Blade - Dark
- Ahriman Death Sentence-ish Animation for this, or something like that... no Night Sword
Drains HP if it hits




Holy Blade - Holy
- Circle Animation when it hits? ???
Deals incredibly high damage to low-faith enemies. (You'd have to play with Malak's formula for this)




etc just some ideas
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on February 04, 2009, 03:35:45 AM
FF9 magic sword skills?
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Post by: boomkick on February 04, 2009, 05:28:45 PM
Maybe Holy Blade should be Holy Explosion?



Blizzaga/Firaga/Thundaga Sword
- Just as their name implies, except that the sword skills are elemental and go for their respective animations. (Blizzaga uses Statis, Firaga uses Crush, Thundaga uses Lightning Stab).
Climhazzard from FF9 is basically a AOE move.

Stab- Deals damage, ignores weapon guard only?
Pain- Circle animation, Unholy Sword Skill attacks one's soul (MP drain or %damage?)
Final Bracelet (Breath)- Giga Flare animation, Deals damage in a large area and adds Confusion (low chance) (2 Panel AOE).
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Post by: AngrySurprisedFace on February 05, 2009, 03:33:08 AM
Knights seemed fine to me.

But I must agree, I didn't use Power Ruin, Magic Ruin, or Mind Ruin. At all, really. Speed Ruin was pretty much it.
Maybe (maybe..) if you wanted those skills used more you could make them have status effects? Power Ruin could be.. Paralyze? Magic Ruin could be Silence, and Mind Ruin could be confusion? I would suppose that they would get more use that way, rather than just sitting there being pretty.

But other than that, I like the 1.3 knight.

:P
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 05, 2009, 05:15:28 AM
Quote from: "Shade"
Maybe you should make equiment break's range 3 instead of stat break's, like that they would have lower change to break then ruins on 1.3.

Interesting... but not really what I think I want. Equipment Breaks, from Long Range wouldn't be for everything. Come of think of it... wouldn't those abilities fit a magic user better? "Rust Weapon" "Rust Armor", in fact I think I'll use those to complete the Traveler's set. Good idea Shade!


Quote from: "Dokurider"
I suggested before that Ruins should reduce their respective stat by a percentage, mostly to deal with monsters. Archy-poo didn't like it. Just throwing that out there again.

Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?

Oh if only! The reason I'm not so comfortable with the Ruins is their lowering of stats for the Whole of the battle, it's a break to players and not very denting on the AI and is just too good against bosses. Maybe we should ask one of the ASMer's to help us with that? If we do succeed in that, I wouldn't mind utilizing them somewhere.

Quote from: "boomkick"
Quote from: "Dokurider"
Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?

That sounds interesting, but i was going for a more of a dueling type.

Stance (1, 2, 3). Basically a charged attack, yet it is unavoidable.
Guard Break- Destroys both the assessary (?) and the shield of a defending character.
Bull Ram- Basically a Dash Tackle, but it does more damage and the shield is there (couldn't this fit the warder?).
Magic Strike- Fitting Magic into his sword, he slashes very very far away, but at a huge penalty to him. (Destroy would work)

Stances eh? They would need a bit more of a niche to be of use, Charged, non avoidable, x3 is a bit much...

Guard Break isn't possible.

The shield part of Bull Ram isn't possible.

Magic Strike is interesting... it's a very Dark Knight-esque move, I'll consider it.

Quote from: "Voldemort"
1.3 changes are not enough

not anymore

the rest of Mercenaries jobs are much more viable / can do pretty unique things

and 1.3 Knight would be left in the dust

I agree now, in light of all of the new things flying about, they need to stand on their own.

Quote from: "Dokurider"
Maybe diversify their equipment? Specifically, weapons?
Interesting... what did you have in mind?

Quote from: "boomkick"
Taking something from FF9

Stock Break- Does damage to enemies in an area.
ThunderSlash- Does good damage to an enemy.
Dark Blade- Deals great damage at the cost of life.


Battle Cry- Increases PA (Or adds Haste) to himself and an area around him.

Hmm... Draw out range for Stock Break? I... don't know if I like that...

Thunderslash - Interesting... I'll consider it. Though it's basically a mini lightning stab (won't have the same formula though.)

Dark Blade, another Dark Knight esque move... perhaps...

Battle Cry - Haste around him, eh? That is an interesting thought... will need balanced accordingly.

Quote from: "Voldemort"
make Battle Cry MP Cost with a CT and add +1 PA to everything around it, enemies included

and yeah

let's give them some skills (some new sword skills might be cool too.. something like Gladiator's FFTA sword skills.. all melee range)


[All Require Sword, Melee Range, MP Cost, Instant]

Wind Blade - Wind
Tiamat Formula, no damage bonus, Evadeable, Requires Sword (so MA intensive jobs can't abuse it, get rid of equip sword), Weapon Strike
Deals 4(???) low power MA based hits... Kaimatachi (or some other wind animation on hit, Sandstorm???)




Dark Blade - Dark
- Ahriman Death Sentence-ish Animation for this, or something like that... no Night Sword
Drains HP if it hits




Holy Blade - Holy
- Circle Animation when it hits? ???
Deals incredibly high damage to low-faith enemies. (You'd have to play with Malak's formula for this)




etc just some ideas

I don't like stat raising  (or stat breaking)... unless we can cap it. Other then that, it's too far out of control.

Wind Blade - Very interesting! But the whole of the SpellBlade's are based around that? As well Requires Sword has been turned into Requires Knight Sword, unfortunately as it stands there would be no way to balance such.

Dark Blade - It would be exactly like Night Sword... don't want to take away from Gafgarion here.

Holy Blade - I like it! I think I will ask one of the ASMers to do something with this. Any thoughts for a specific formula?

Quote from: "boomkick"
Maybe Holy Blade should be Holy Explosion?



Blizzaga/Firaga/Thundaga Sword
- Just as their name implies, except that the sword skills are elemental and go for their respective animations. (Blizzaga uses Statis, Firaga uses Crush, Thundaga uses Lightning Stab).
Climhazzard from FF9 is basically a AOE move.

Stab- Deals damage, ignores weapon guard only?
Pain- Circle animation, Unholy Sword Skill attacks one's soul (MP drain or %damage?)
Final Bracelet (Breath)- Giga Flare animation, Deals damage in a large area and adds Confusion (low chance) (2 Panel AOE).

That is far too similar to Zozma's Elemental Blade for comfort, I don't like the idea.
Climhazzard is a bit... eh... we don't need another AoE.

Stab - How do you plan this?
Pain - % Damage sounds interesting... but... something doesn't sit right with me.
Final Breath - Knights are not magically inclined beings.

Quote from: "AngrySurprisedFace"
Knights seemed fine to me.

But I must agree, I didn't use Power Ruin, Magic Ruin, or Mind Ruin. At all, really. Speed Ruin was pretty much it.
Maybe (maybe..) if you wanted those skills used more you could make them have status effects? Power Ruin could be.. Paralyze? Magic Ruin could be Silence, and Mind Ruin could be confusion? I would suppose that they would get more use that way, rather than just sitting there being pretty.

But other than that, I like the 1.3 knight.

:P


While great for 1.3 it seems to be the concensus that they wouldn't fare well in a world full of new classes and redone abilities. Also I am not a fan of the ruins permanant effects. The Ruins doing status is too much like a physical oracle.
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Post by: Rhue on February 05, 2009, 05:48:58 AM
I like the idea of "Battle cry". You can make it add +1 PA to nearby allies and Regen to the user. It should cost some MP.

Maybe add some skill similar to Mimic Titan. I can see it being very useful for a knight, and it fits too. Make it cost a lot of Mp though.

Finally, you could add a skill that lowers all the CT of a enemy unit. Like an improved version of the mediator's Persuade. It could be called something like paralyzing strike". I can see it being very useful if you were in control of said knight, but i doubt that the enemy AI would take advantage of it.
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Post by: boomkick on February 05, 2009, 06:15:39 AM
Stab is just something of a guess, maybe make it have an MP cost and be a completely unavoidable attack, by all means. This means regular weapon damage.

Or you could make it so that they bleed out like a gash (poison perhaps as a substitute?)

Final Breath is supposedly a sword skill and based off WP power.
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Post by: 454Casull on February 05, 2009, 06:46:40 AM
Quote from: "Voldemort"
Holy Blade - Holy
- Circle Animation when it hits? ???
Deals incredibly high damage to low-faith enemies. (You'd have to play with Malak's formula for this)

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 05, 2009, 12:49:22 PM
Quote from: "Rhue"
I like the idea of "Battle cry". You can make it add +1 PA to nearby allies and Regen to the user. It should cost some MP.

Maybe add some skill similar to Mimic Titan. I can see it being very useful for a knight, and it fits too. Make it cost a lot of Mp though.

Finally, you could add a skill that lowers all the CT of a enemy unit. Like an improved version of the mediator's Persuade. It could be called something like paralyzing strike". I can see it being very useful if you were in control of said knight, but i doubt that the enemy AI would take advantage of it.


Unfortunately it's not possible to stack any Pa/Ma/Sp, bonuses with Status effects, also if a skill is to give Any +Pa/Ma/Sp, it will need an MP cost (Excluding Reliquian's Advisor's Signet) The MP cost will be highly costly, even Vanilla didn't have any multiple +Pa/Ma/Sp bonuses, and if I make it affordable to Knights MP, then other classes will be able to abuse it, unless it has a massive CT, but that in itself is flawed. I do like the idea of giving it Haste though. With the dissolved Time Mage, it makes sense for a Knight to gain such a respectively fantastic battle tactic.

The Mimic Titan, thought is something that people seem to be thinking about I guess the Knight can have a DO ranged move for their new set.

That is a problem... considering the idea for a multi - Persuade, but that is a Beyond powerful move, far beyond anything a player can weild in Vanilla... I'll think about it for the Red Mage class though.
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Post by: Shade on February 05, 2009, 01:53:12 PM
What I think of speed ruin is... nah almost never use it. Anothers are so god damm powerfull compared to MA ruin and PA ruin.

Also new idea the Dull Hit
What it does it will have change to do knockback

Also about stab.
There is alot of things that give evade. so yeah I think it is posible because there is many things that does it. So should'n it be posible to ingore enemys weapon's %?
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Post by: Dokurider on February 05, 2009, 05:15:02 PM
Quote
Interesting... what did you have in mind?


Spears, Crossbows, Axes?
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Post by: boomkick on February 05, 2009, 07:55:19 PM
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...
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Post by: Dokurider on February 05, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
Quote from: "boomkick"
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...


You don't see a lot of things, doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

The reason I think Spears, Axes, and Crossbows would be good for Knights is that they are straight PA*WP damage.

Knights would be good with Axes because, unlike other classes that can equip Axes, they can take a hit or two. They can afford to gamble with the Axe. Nice Weapon Evade too.

Spears would be a nice addition. Equippable with a shield, strong, etc. Only problem is that it will infringe on the Lancer's job (is there a Lancer in Mercenaries? I probably should look.). Lancer probably would need an update too BTW.

Being able to equip crossbows would be really neat. It would basically turn the Knight into a living tank, minus the go anywhere attitude. Breaking stuff from afar, I think it would be a good compliment.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 06, 2009, 12:14:12 AM
Quote from: "Shade"
What I think of speed ruin is... nah almost never use it. Anothers are so god damm powerfull compared to MA ruin and PA ruin.

Also new idea the Dull Hit
What it does it will have change to do knockback

Also about stab.
There is alot of things that give evade. so yeah I think it is posible because there is many things that does it. So should'n it be posible to ingore enemys weapon's %?

There is not one way to make it so it only stops Weapon Guard, that's not really that great as it stands anyhow... Dull Hit isn't very... useful, anyhow the Knockback, the only two places where they can be used, is not going to the Knight.

Stab would just be a nonevadable, something or other, the ability name "Stab" doesn't represent this well.



Quote from: "Dokurider"
Quote
Interesting... what did you have in mind?

Spears, Crossbows, Axes?

That's an interesting thought... but Axes are being taken out of the game, for the Claws of course. Though I'm not sure if I want Knights to be able to equip Spears... won't people infinitely prefer thoser over swords?  Crossbows sounds nice though.

Quote from: "boomkick"
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...


Defensive Stance is kind of a... poor man's Brace, not sure how much use it would see. Jump Strike is too... far too... similar to Jump from the Dragoon's set. I'm not sure I like that one very much.


Quote from: "Dokurider"
Quote from: "boomkick"
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...

You don't see a lot of things, doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

The reason I think Spears, Axes, and Crossbows would be good for Knights is that they are straight PA*WP damage.

Knights would be good with Axes because, unlike other classes that can equip Axes, they can take a hit or two. They can afford to gamble with the Axe. Nice Weapon Evade too.

Spears would be a nice addition. Equippable with a shield, strong, etc. Only problem is that it will infringe on the Lancer's job (is there a Lancer in Mercenaries? I probably should look.). Lancer probably would need an update too BTW.

Being able to equip crossbows would be really neat. It would basically turn the Knight into a living tank, minus the go anywhere attitude. Breaking stuff from afar, I think it would be a good compliment.


Well... they can't break anything in Mercenaries that's all been moved over to the Traveler who has ranged Break abilities now, "Rust Armor, Rust Helmet" so on and so far.

They can equip Crossbows though, not sure what specialty they will have, if any, considering Arbalist's use two of them. Also yes, there is indeed a "Lancer" in Mercenaries, they are called Dragoons and are a pretty anti monster class, with a few special abilities which you can read in the (far from updated) Mercenaries MAster Change Guide, probably on the second page... (probably my fault for not stickying it.
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Post by: AngrySurprisedFace on February 06, 2009, 03:34:16 AM
What skills have you given them so far?
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Post by: tithin on February 06, 2009, 03:37:23 AM
Would the Accumulate skill (IE, Special characters Squire skill, the one that gives +1str / spe etc) be an appropriate fit? It seems like it would fit well with the direction you're taking the knights.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 06, 2009, 03:42:23 AM
Yes... but I want to avoid using Any +Pa/Ma/Sp, just the same as avoiding using them, Unless I can have them only be a percentage power up that can't be stacked.
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on February 06, 2009, 03:54:01 AM
a percentage based non-stacking power up would probablly have to be in the form of a status effect change, similar to how protect and berserk work, only it'd be a berserk that didn't cause the player to lose control of the unit and had a set duration.
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Post by: ShadowX on February 06, 2009, 03:56:28 AM
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
a percentage based non-stacking power up would probablly have to be in the form of a status effect change, similar to how protect and berserk work, only it'd be a berserk that didn't cause the player to lose control of the unit and had a set duration.


In essence like FFTA2's Attack up and stuff.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 06, 2009, 04:01:03 AM
You got it! That's the idea I want to implement! Let's hope the ASMer's will agree with our sentiments.
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Post by: tithin on February 06, 2009, 04:27:42 AM
A percentage based increase would be a good idea. So we'd need a new accumulate skill that grants a, what, say 25% increase?
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on February 06, 2009, 04:57:56 AM
Charge!: Causes all critical units around the knight to gain berserk, invisibility, haste, etc.

Shock:Um...

Rending Sabre: The knight strikes the enemy with such force that the unit behind him gets damaged too. Mid accuracy?

Heat Strike: Fire damage and chance to berserk?

Guardian: Inflicts CT=0 and invisibility to allied units surrounding the knight? Might fit more with warder

Heratic Strike: Deals increased damage to units with lower faith/whatever it's called now

Just throwing out random suggestions
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Post by: dwib on February 06, 2009, 05:26:03 AM
knights are usually just basic classes, so i don't like giving them fancy abilities like swordskills... that's just me.
however i do like archeal's low faith attack

heavy strike - deals % damage of enemy HP (like demi)
swiftness - unevadable weapon damage
ironclad - protect + slow on user
wild slash - attack in 3 directions for low damage
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Post by: Shade on February 06, 2009, 11:21:07 AM
Saumurai Stance - Have's low % to give opponent critical status.
Stone crash - Charge attack that remove's petrify and kills opponent.(Yeah It takes times to hit with this so...)
Strong Hit - Hit's enemy and enemy won't get turn for while, so it's low % change make CT 0
War Cry - give's everyone in map 1 PA and very low change to get berserk.

Yeah got nice ideas.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 06, 2009, 12:30:59 PM
Quote from: "tithin"
A percentage based increase would be a good idea. So we'd need a new accumulate skill that grants a, what, say 25% increase?

Correct, 25% added.

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"
Charge!: Causes all critical units around the knight to gain berserk, invisibility, haste, etc.

Shock:Um...

Rending Sabre: The knight strikes the enemy with such force that the unit behind him gets damaged too. Mid accuracy?

Heat Strike: Fire damage and chance to berserk?

Guardian: Inflicts CT=0 and invisibility to allied units surrounding the knight? Might fit more with warder

Heratic Strike: Deals increased damage to units with lower faith/whatever it's called now

Just throwing out random suggestions

Charge! - With how easy it is to fall into a Critical Status, this might be a bit extreme... I will consider it for their secret skill.

Shock - is originally their Secret Skill, but I like Magic Strike a lot more then that.

Rending Sabre - Too close to Lavian's Strikethrough move.

Heat Strike- A bit generic... not sure I want to take that path.

Guardian fits Warder more, yes. But Ct = 00 isn't possible to add status too.

Heretic Strike - Not a very... fitting move... for a Knight in which many are employed by Church and State.


Quote from: "dwib"
knights are usually just basic classes, so i don't like giving them fancy abilities like swordskills... that's just me.
however i do like archeal's low faith attack

heavy strike - deals % damage of enemy HP (like demi)
swiftness - unevadable weapon damage
ironclad - protect + slow on user
wild slash - attack in 3 directions for low damage

Heavy Strike - there is no PA formula that deals a % of HP, and I don't want them to be based on Magic.

Swiftness - If it's a decent amount of MP it seems pretty well done.

Ironclad - Very nice! But... it will need something else other then Protect to counteract slow.

Wild Slash - No fitting animations sadly.

Quote from: "Shade"
Saumurai Stance - Have's low % to give opponent critical status.
Stone crash - Charge attack that remove's petrify and kills opponent.(Yeah It takes times to hit with this so...)
Strong Hit - Hit's enemy and enemy won't get turn for while, so it's low % change make CT 0
War Cry - give's everyone in map 1 PA and very low change to get berserk.

Yeah got nice ideas.


Samurai Stance - There's no formula based around PA for this move, and I don't want the Knight class to have to rely on Magic.

Stone Crush - interesting... but not truly very useful, unless I make the AI more efficient at curing Petrify Status.

Strong Hit - Not possible with out currently formula.

War Cry - Far too much and the "chance" for Berserk isn't quite possible with any Pa/Ma/Sp/ formula.
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Post by: boomkick on February 06, 2009, 04:10:19 PM
End Life- At a VERY VERY low chance, crystalize a downed/dead unit. (about 2-5%).

Anyways, LD maybe if u decides on a few things you could update your first place to include how far you have gotten in ideas and if we need anymore?
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Post by: tithin on February 07, 2009, 12:55:18 AM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Quote from: "tithin"
A percentage based increase would be a good idea. So we'd need a new accumulate skill that grants a, what, say 25% increase?

Correct, 25% added.

Woohoo! I Contributed!

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End Life- At a VERY VERY low chance, crystalize a downed/dead unit. (about 2-5%).


Low % = Bad. You'd essentially be sticking a blade in a downed enemy to finish them off. Why would it have a low %? It's not like that they would be able to dodge
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Post by: dwib on February 07, 2009, 01:33:09 AM
Quote from: "tithin"
Low % = Bad. You'd essentially be sticking a blade in a downed enemy to finish them off. Why would it have a low %? It's not like that they would be able to dodge

Agreed. Maybe around 35% chance. Assuming it misses the first time and hits the next, you'd spend 2 of your turns to make them a crystal 1 turn early, or if you are lucky you spend a turn crystalizing them 2 turns early. That doesn't seem very over powered to me, assuming you throw an MP cost on there.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"
ronclad - Very nice! But... it will need something else other then Protect to counteract slow


I was thinking no MP cost would help to counteract the slow, although i suppose regen could be thrown in and call it hibernate or something like that? A lot of possibilities for this...
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Post by: tithin on February 07, 2009, 01:55:58 AM
Quote from: "dwib"
Agreed. Maybe around 35% chance. Assuming it misses the first time and hits the next, you'd spend 2 of your turns to make them a crystal 1 turn early, or if you are lucky you spend a turn crystalizing them 2 turns early. That doesn't seem very over powered to me, assuming you throw an MP cost on there.

If I had the spare turn to waste on something like that, and it missed, I wouldn't do it a second time. Just from my own perspective.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"
ronclad - Very nice! But... it will need something else other then Protect to counteract slow

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I was thinking no MP cost would help to counteract the slow, although i suppose regen could be thrown in and call it hibernate or something like that? A lot of possibilities for this...


Possibly as a support ability?

Wounded flight: The Knight, in his wounded state begs the gods to intercede on his behalf. Grants Protection + Regen. Requires critical status. The knight having recieved this favour removes himself from the field until he feels strong enough to contribute.

Activates chicken AI for two rounds.

This is more than likely unfeasible.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 12, 2009, 09:13:55 PM
First post is updated. We haven't quite gotten to Support Abilities, but when we do, I'll let you know about them.
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Post by: boomkick on February 12, 2009, 09:41:37 PM
What is Swiftness specifically do?
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 12, 2009, 09:50:39 PM
Right, knew I forgot something... unevadable attack/
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Post by: boomkick on February 12, 2009, 09:53:56 PM
Ironclad is somewhat powerful with the right setup. If Haste has a CT and Ironclad was used before the Haste went off, then Ironclad becomes a pure positive and overwhelms slow with haste. Even more so with a slow-immune item or accessory.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 12, 2009, 09:56:12 PM
And that would be a combo which would take both of your only assured setups to make work, I'd say those combos aren't neccessarily a bad thing in Mercenaries.
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Post by: boomkick on February 12, 2009, 09:58:37 PM
True, but other then that the current skills are fine. But the Knight seems to be missing something. Maybe Swordskills :). But i believe you are going to add some stuff later huh?
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 12, 2009, 10:08:30 PM
Swordskills? Well... remember the "Must Equip Sword" was turned into "Must Equip KnightSwords". "KnightSwords" were turned into "SpellBlades" . With Knights new equipment choices it gives them more leeway.

Also though they might not be "Swordskills" they are attack skills, including...

Abraxas, Somber Drive, Nix, Swiftness, Chaste Slice and Sanctimonious Saber. 6 of 8's not a bad ratio, considering that the Knight now runs well in more then a few situations now.

A self buff to stay well, and a Haste, which is a very useful status.
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Post by: boomkick on February 12, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
Swordskills meaning damage dealing skills based of WP power, maybe including a status effect like a regular swordskill would have without the requirements of a sword.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 12, 2009, 10:16:37 PM
Oh definitely not... that formula is broken to pieces. 20 * 25 + ?!Y?! = 425 + ?!Y?!, it gets very broken, very fast. It's the reason I wanted to take more of a unique stab at it.
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Post by: boomkick on February 13, 2009, 12:22:24 AM
Put Shock on him just for the heck of it lol.
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on February 13, 2009, 12:25:30 AM
Rediculous damage? Check
Rediculously inaccurate? Check
Rediculously high mp cost? Check

Shock must be in!
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 13, 2009, 12:52:06 AM
Shock will not make it in, besides it's just an Abraxas that doesn't cost any HP, I want to avoid that.
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Post by: boomkick on February 13, 2009, 05:26:03 AM
Well, one way to include swordskills would be to make it PA and Brave based, or just PA based. That would make it less powerful and unbroken. I just see knights as having swordskills.
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Post by: Dormin Jake on February 13, 2009, 05:30:35 AM
Love the idea, LastingDawn.  The whole light/dark them is very, very cool.

It gives your standard knight a feeling of being an elite, noble warrior, without resorting to stupid, thoughtless swordskills.

Seriously, what is it with the swordskills obsession, anyway?  There are way, way too many of them already!  One of the biggest qualms I have with vanilla is you get handed all these special knight swordskillers in chapter 4 and before long half your troop requires swords to be even remotely effective.

But your ideas actually have merit considering the very religious-centric setting of FFT's Ivalice.  Makes sense that noble warriors would be involved in studying the forces of holiness and darkness.
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Post by: Dormin Jake on February 13, 2009, 05:33:30 AM
Why aren't their bow skills?  Dictionary skills?  Harp skills?  Dagger skills?  Fisticuffs skills?

What's so special about omg swords?

I'm ranting.
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 13, 2009, 06:13:40 AM
Sigh... I would definitely love such things, definitely a few dagger skills. It is possible, Zodiac's partially hacked it, but unfortunately the AI won't respond to it right, not yet anyhow. The future only knows! Keep your fingers crossed! Also thank you for appreciating what a Knight should be about. I really liked the theme we made for them, and I feel it gives them more character, then before.
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Post by: boomkick on February 13, 2009, 09:53:59 PM
I just feel that the knight is missing something, yet i dont know what...
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Post by: dwib on February 14, 2009, 01:43:22 AM
i feel like the knight is incredible. they have a wide range of skills that are all very useful
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Post by: Archael on February 14, 2009, 02:01:10 AM
very nice rehaul

you resolved this issue quickly , creatively, and efficiently

5*
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on February 14, 2009, 02:09:21 AM
5 +1/2*
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Post by: PX_Timefordeath on February 14, 2009, 03:25:55 PM
One last suggestion

Holy Cross(or whatever)
Deals AoE damage around the knight, dealing damage pased on WP, PA, and faith if possible
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Post by: LastingDawn on February 14, 2009, 04:00:36 PM
8 skills is the maximum for most classes, Knight has reached it's maximum, also there is no formula to support that, if there were anyhow, it would be too similar to Lavian's Swallowtail ability.
Title: Re: Knight Rehaul for Mercenaries
Post by: LastingDawn on July 30, 2010, 04:35:48 PM
Resurrection!

What did I even mean by that last post? Well in any case, we need 8 more skills representing the Holy & Dark & Neutral side of the Knight. This is a bit of a difficulty for me personally. So any ideas that you would happen to have would be of great worth.

Just Remember. I don't want Rad to be a Holy Knight and Rad to be a Dark Knight. I want an equal split of Dark/Holy/Neutral. So either 3 Dark, 3 Light, 2 Neutral, or 2 Dark, 2 Light, 4 Neutral. Something similar to that.
Title: Re: Knight Rehaul for Mercenaries (Rad/Ramza Skillset Update!)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 22, 2010, 02:49:09 PM
Update on first post!

Well I think Philsov basically hit the nail on the head with this one, as did Mav. This is the nearly the finalized set for the Knight class, unless someone sees a large problem with it.