Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => Mercenaries => Topic started by: LastingDawn on November 24, 2008, 05:06:55 AM

Title: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: LastingDawn on November 24, 2008, 05:06:55 AM
EsperBlades, Spirit Whisperers[/size]

August 22nd, 2010

Summons are very... well very dull, in the normal game they are the uncontested best skillset with Short Charge. Now I'd like to change that, their formula has been altered, to coincide with their names, they, along with the Geomancers use well... the Geomancy formula.

The Esperblade's purpose is to be a mage-fighter, the Red Mage will still have a lot of use though. Since... he'll be a bit more versatile, the Esperblade's strength is his relatively decent HP, but his weakness is his lack of versatility, to even use his skillset, he'll have to use his swords power, which is very low.

In addition now is the ability to use 4 Summons each with each separate blade. Each blade is given a new purpose and role. It allows the EsperBlade to play many roles as the case is. Though as before, break the sword, break their power.


The Spriteworks of the EsperBlades
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5543/esperbladecr1.png)


Quote
Esperblade - Subjected to a paradigm shift.  The esperblades will only be able to summon Espers tied to their equipped weapon, thanks to ARH. There are 4 subgroups with 4 espers each, to the tune of:  Healing, Support, Elemental, and Non-elemental.  Highly specialized but highly effective.  All spells are Faith-based, and all spells in the elemental and non-elemental brances have a 100% chance to hit.  Also forgive me for imprinting summon functions from my own patch :3.

Healing
Moogle - Range 4. AoE 2 - Wide-area healing
Fairy - Range 4, AoE 0 - Revives target with 50% health (Raise, basically)
Leviathan - Range 3, AoE 2 - Regen infliction
Silf - Range 3, AoE 1 - Drains 15% HP from targets.  (does AoE drain work, at all?  Would be nice to siphon life from a large area, while keeping things balanced for boss fights coupled with the drain cap ASM)

Elemental - Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh do the same damage with the same MP cost.  Titan is stronger (same MP?) due to range issues.
Ifrit - Range 4, AoE 2, affects both enemies and allies.  Fire elemental.
Shiva - Range 6, linear.  Enemies only.  Ice ele
Ramuh - Range 4, 3-way attack.  Enemies only. Lit ele
Titan - Range 0, AoE 2.  Enemies only.  Earth ele.  

Support
Golem - Range 3, AoE 1 - Esuna-like effect, high success rate.
Salamander - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 170) chance to inflict Berserk.  Enemy only.
Lich - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 180) - Removes all positive status from the enemy.
Carbunkle - ?Confuddle? - Range 4, AoE - 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 130) - inflicts Charm, Confuse, OR sleep.  Enemy only.

Non-elemental
Bahamut - Range 4, AoE 2.  Affects both enemies and allies.  Higher damage and MP cost than ifrit.
Odin - Range 6 Linear - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 140) to inflict either Dead or Death Sentence
Zodiac - Range 4, AoE 0 - heavy damage, no AoE.
Cyclops - Range 4, AoE 3 - Med-Light damage, wide area.





THE 5 SPELL BLADES


Will need redone. With the shift in focus here, it is necessary that we rename and repurpose the Actual Blades, which allow the use of these summons.
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Post by: philsov on November 24, 2008, 06:07:17 AM
Is it:

- Summoner knows a variety of summons from the skillset.
- Spell blades only enable the casting of its respective summoning.

Or:

- Summoner's Spell Blade is like a dragon rod on crack.
- Skillset is ???
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Post by: dwib on November 24, 2008, 06:38:35 AM
n33ds moar explenation!!

are they still going to have the same size AoE although it comes from an attack? is bahamut going to dragoons or EsperBlades? Geomancy formulas for damage or saying that Grass = Ramuh, Rocks = Ifrit, etc? Moogle/Fairy/Silf?

confused :(
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Post by: Dormin Jake on November 24, 2008, 06:48:48 AM
Regardless: awesome idea.
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Post by: Archael on November 24, 2008, 11:05:02 AM
More details:

- Summoner knows a variety of summons from the skillset.
- Spell blades ALLOW summoning... some of them will prolly have different effects.
- Skillset will have one ??? skill like all other generic skillsets in the mod (Band of abilities I am assuming)
- Esperblade's Spellblade is required to use the skillset, in or out of the job. Bring Equip Spellblade if out.

also LD:

very amazing job with the weapon edit... if you can send me the models as pictures, I can try my hand editing some in photoshop
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Post by: Archael on November 24, 2008, 11:35:06 AM
Also, they can keep whatever AOE LD wants them to get.. even if it's the original Area Effect 2.

Why? Damage formula can be adjusted, and it will probably be evadeable / blockable with Magic Evasion. (Just taking a wild guess here)

I don't think there will be very many (if at all) 100% skills in mercenaries


Finally a job with a good reason to use male over female... (if he does end up using Geo formula)
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Post by: LastingDawn on November 24, 2008, 02:42:06 PM
Thank you for your help, Voldemort, I must admit,  I was Very tired yesterday, when I wrote this, therefore I was far from clear...

Though Voldemort has it right, the Spell Blade weapon type, is the only thing that allows Summoning, to if you wish to use this outside of it's set, you would need Equip SpellBlade. The Geomancy's formula, is just that, the Damage Formula,  [PA + Y] /2 * MA, to make it, along with Geomancer another PA-MA class, this balances the quota, with 7 PA, 7 MA, and 2 hybrid.

Now, we need ideas for the Summons themselves, obviously I don't want them to keep their same exact effect as they arein 1.0 obviously enough. Hopefully this made things a little clearer.
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Post by: Gamesoul Master on November 24, 2008, 03:23:08 PM
Seems like an awesome idea. I have a question or two about it (I've been wondering about the concept of this for a while now...).

How exactly is this SpellBlade requirement being implemented? Did you change swords into the Knight Sword class and make the regular sword class a SpellBlade class instead? Or did you somehow get to the code that comes after the checks for a Materia Blade requirement and change it to check for something more generic instead?

I apologize if my questions don't quite belong here (or are in poor taste), but I've been wanting to make abilities that require a certain weapon class to be equipped without giving up my swords (or making them "knight swords"), and was hoping that at some point, someone would find the code for these checks and figure out how to modify it to run different checks instead.
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Post by: Archael on November 24, 2008, 03:23:45 PM
edited
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Post by: LastingDawn on November 24, 2008, 03:29:33 PM
I think Salamander and Ifrit can both stay, They're both Fire elemental yes, but one is an upsurging fire, while the one is basically an explosion, if possible, I would still love to try my hand at the four hidden Summons, heh...

Also Gamesoul Master...

This idea has been of... a slight cost, all normal swords have been classified as Ninja Sword, (With Ninja's gone this doesn't make a large difference...) But that's really it, then using the basic "requires sword" ability for it all, since you never have a Holy Knight on your side to fully optimize, and only Gafgarion on the side of the Dark Knight, which is just Dark and Night Sword, which don't neccessarily need a Sword to look right.
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Post by: Archael on November 24, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
I am thinking that alot of the Summon effects look strictly like AOE magic... so... I can't think of any of them that would be higher damage, single target spells.

Except for Zodiac - that little guy's beam looks pretty focused... except it's the size of the entire map!


But low-end AOE spell damage is also a very good thing for them to do if need be. For example:


1) Ifrit: 2 AOE, ???

2) Fairy: Single Target, MA + 40% Raise with 10% HP.

2.5) Alternative Fairy: 2 AOE, Only works on Undeads - 100% Confusion

3) Midgar Zolom: 2 AOE, low damage, 25% add poison OR frog

4) Ramuh: 2 AOE, ???

5) Zodiac: 3 AOE, mediocre damage

6) Silf: 2 AOE, Adds: Float OR Haste OR Regen

7) Moogle: 2 AOE, VERY LOW DAMAGE, 25% Add: Charm











NONE of them 100%, ALL of them subject to M Evade. Except for the ally targeting ones.




Definitely use Midgar Zolom over Salamander... that way it won't conflict with Ifrit. Not to mention it looks great.

Just some ideas to get ppl started.
_________________
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Post by: LastingDawn on November 24, 2008, 04:47:17 PM
Odin and Rich are part of the Traveler's skillset currently, and will not be making an appearance in the Esperblade's set. Just for verification.
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Post by: Archael on November 24, 2008, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Odin and Rich are part of the Traveler's skillset currently, and will not be making an appearance in the Esperblade's set. Just for verification.


oh, ok, sure thing

I'll replace their ideas with Ramuh and Ifrit then

like any of the other ones?

I'm trying my best to avoid redundancy so they all see a fair amount of use... without any of them being overpowering

it is the same concept I tried to do with Arbalist's offensive moves... they are all useful in diff. circumstances, but there is never one you absolutely want to spam over and over
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Post by: LastingDawn on November 24, 2008, 05:50:34 PM
The other's are quire interesting, but for Fairy reviving in an AoE, would need a Lot of MP to justify such. Other then that, it looks good. Midgar Zolom is a very nice addition. Zodiac as a normal summon? I don't know... he Is after all the thirtheenth Zodiac, I wonder if he should really be as such. Also you said his attack looks very focused, in which I  agree, I think a 1 AoE, Massive Damage, Massive MP would make that worthwhile. Sylph, I was hoping to go for something more similar to FF4, in that it absorbed a random amount of HP and give it to the caster.
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Post by: Jacob31593 on November 24, 2008, 07:57:54 PM
i like it
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Post by: Archael on November 24, 2008, 09:12:31 PM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
The other's are quire interesting, but for Fairy reviving in an AoE, would need a Lot of MP to justify such. Other then that, it looks good. Midgar Zolom is a very nice addition. Zodiac as a normal summon? I don't know... he Is after all the thirtheenth Zodiac, I wonder if he should really be as such. Also you said his attack looks very focused, in which I  agree, I think a 1 AoE, Massive Damage, Massive MP would make that worthwhile. Sylph, I was hoping to go for something more similar to FF4, in that it absorbed a random amount of HP and give it to the caster.


typo

Fairy is suppose to be 1 PANEL

not 1 AOE
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Post by: boomkick on November 24, 2008, 11:57:51 PM
Why not Zodiac do more then just Mediocre damage, like add a certain status or something. Not sure what that would be because Zodiac is the fucking 13th Zodiac!

Ifrit could reduce PA and MA as its effect. Around 2 each would be good and be useful for everyone. Since of course its a demon spraying fire everywhere, why not demoralize or weaken the enemy through it?
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Post by: Archael on November 25, 2008, 12:14:46 AM
Quote from: "boomkick"
Why not Zodiac do more then just Mediocre damage, like add a certain status or something. Not sure what that would be because Zodiac is the fucking 13th Zodiac!

Ifrit could reduce PA and MA as its effect. Around 2 each would be good and be useful for everyone. Since of course its a demon spraying fire everywhere, why not demoralize or weaken the enemy through it?



Zodiac can definitely be a stronger, focused spell like LD said

About Ifrit lowering stats, I'm not sure about stat lowering if it is in the mod
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Post by: LastingDawn on November 25, 2008, 12:33:21 AM
Brave and Faith are out, but not neccessarily, PA, MA, and Speed boosts and decreasing.
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Post by: Archael on November 25, 2008, 02:47:48 AM
IN PROGRESS





1) Defender - Dark - Dark Holy (Placeholder) - Graphic 17 - Palette C (Black)

2) Save The Queen - Earth - Titan - Graphic 17 - Palette B (Golden Brown)

3) Excalibur - Ice - Cyclops - Graphic 19 - Palette 5 (Blue)

4) Ragnarok - Fire - Salamander - Graphic 19 - Palette 3 (Red)

5) Chaos Blade - Magi-Sword - Non-Elemental - *SPECIAL EFFECT* - Graphic 17 - Palette 9 (Grey)
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Post by: boomkick on November 25, 2008, 05:27:43 AM
Couldn't you replace the chaos blade's special effect with Zodiac, or did u think of that already?
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Post by: dwib on November 25, 2008, 05:42:27 AM
i think Zodiac will be in the EsperBlade's skillset, therefore uneeded for a weapon effect
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 25, 2008, 11:39:50 AM
Spellblade effect ideas

Ifrit/Shiva/Ramuh - Area 2, elemental damage at range

Moogle - heal some hp and cancel poison and sleep  OR Moogle - confuse enemies

Fairy - add Regen to allies OR Fairy - light healing and may add Regen

Slyph - wind element centered on caster, may inflict silence

Titan - earth element centered on caster, may inflict don't move

Carbunkle - randomly inflict haste, protect, shell or reflect on allies

Cyclops - high dark element damage to single target, may inflict petrify
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Post by: LastingDawn on November 25, 2008, 12:20:28 PM
Hmm, I wanted to part Shiva, Ramuh, and Ifrit apart, from being clones of one another, we'll get to that thought.

I like Moogle casuing Confuse,
Fairy doing Light Healing and adding Regen sounds preferable.

Since Silence doesn't exist anymore, and wouldn't really make sense for Silf's to addle...

Titan is now composed only ina weapon, still good idea to inflict Don't Move.

Carbuncle is nice

Cyclops is another summon only in a weapon, though inflicting petrify through that is a fine idea.

So to clarify that leaves...

Moogle
Ifrit
Shiva
Ramuh
Carbunkle
Silf
Fairy
Zodiac

In their sets. Eight summons is still quite a few, This doesn't include their secret skill, which I haven't thought of yet, the one I have now is admittedly a slight cop out.
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Post by: 6divide9 on November 25, 2008, 04:30:29 PM
Midgar Zolom?
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Post by: Archael on November 25, 2008, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: "6divide9"
Midgar Zolom?


ya

a summon Serpentarius has
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Post by: Archael on November 25, 2008, 04:38:20 PM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
So to clarify that leaves...

Moogle
Ifrit
Shiva
Ramuh
Carbunkle
Silf
Fairy
Zodiac

In their sets.


you are forgeting Midgar Zolom
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Post by: Skip Sandwich on November 25, 2008, 05:08:43 PM
the cyclops petrify is from an idea I was messing around with where I lowered cyclops' power to the same as Odin, and had Odin Holy element and add: Dead, and Cyclops dark element and add petrify, with bahamut as the overall highest powered summon aside from Zodiac.

and, if you want to differentiate the immortal trio with more then just elemental affinities, either make them stronger but more costly versions of the coresponding invoker spells, or use status effects

Ifrit: Adds Berserk, Haste and Protect to allies and/or self, should probablly be used in conjunction with setting berserk status on a timer

Shiva: Inflicts Slow or Stop to foes

Ramuh: cancel reflect, shell and protect status
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Post by: Archael on November 25, 2008, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
the cyclops petrify is from an idea I was messing around with where I lowered cyclops' power to the same as Odin, and had Odin Holy element and add: Dead, and Cyclops dark element and add petrify, with bahamut as the overall highest powered summon aside from Zodiac.

and, if you want to differentiate the immortal trio with more then just elemental affinities, either make them stronger but more costly versions of the coresponding invoker spells, or use status effects

Ifrit: Adds Berserk, Haste and Protect to allies and/or self, should probablly be used in conjunction with setting berserk status on a timer

Shiva: Inflicts Slow or Stop to foes

Ramuh: cancel reflect, shell and protect status


I agree with that logic (though that Ifrit is wayy too powerful... Berserk is very strong)

that is how they should be differentiated

the original skillset has WAY too much damage redundancy, and it's best to try to get as far away from that as possible
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Post by: boomkick on November 26, 2008, 12:13:48 AM
I was thinking of Odin and how a spear could work for him. But since Odin is given to someone else it doesn't work.
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Post by: Archael on November 26, 2008, 06:47:58 PM
Berserk + Haste is one HUGE buff to a ranged or physical PA person...

that shit should be a spell on a secret item or hidden ability

not a bad idea... just gotta be careful

maybe it could go to reliquian
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Post by: boomkick on November 27, 2008, 01:41:55 AM
Quote from: "Voldemort7"
Berserk + Haste is one HUGE buff to a ranged or physical PA person...

that shit should be a spell on a secret item or hidden ability

not a bad idea... just gotta be careful

maybe it could go to reliquian


Should be a spell for an enemy only class.
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Post by: Archael on November 28, 2008, 10:25:16 PM
well I am officially back to functioning 100% from my viral thingy

I will work on some items starting with fixing those damn palettes and icons for the 5 spellblades
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Post by: Archael on November 29, 2008, 04:09:15 AM
:D
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on November 29, 2008, 03:57:24 PM
Someone was reading my mind with the Glacial Edge idea. But anyway, just a few ideas and questions.

I was going to say just rip off another Final Fantasy game and call the fire sword Flametongue. But I'm guessing that name may not be appealing. Or maybe just a simple name like Flame Sword.

As for the dark blade, what exactly does the Dark Matter ability do? I keep thinking in terms of space whenever I hear dark matter and I was going to suggest something like Celestial Sword/Blade (Or Celestial Darkness). But if the blade needs a menacing name, maybe something simple like Blade of Darkness. Or if that's too simple, then maybe Nether Blade could work.

For the earth blade, I was going to say something with the word Gaia in it. Is Earthsplitter a final name for it?

Finally, the Magi-Sword is one of the errand treasures right?
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Post by: Archael on November 29, 2008, 04:22:33 PM
all names can be changed by LD

except for Magi-Sword

thats a legendary fft lore item I don't think that's gonna be changing
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Post by: Archael on November 29, 2008, 06:05:33 PM
the Dark sword casts a spell (from what I remember LD saying)

and that dark spell (forgot the name) has a 25% chance of applying a status effect called Dark Matter

when you have Dark Matter on you, all positive buffs are dispelled, and no positive buffs may be cast on you while it is in effect
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Post by: Dominic NY18 on November 29, 2008, 06:42:56 PM
That sounds a lot like Zeromus's Black Hole attack.
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Post by: DarthPaul on November 29, 2008, 09:40:33 PM
I thought Ice Shank was a great name!!!
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Post by: The Damned on November 29, 2008, 10:11:20 PM
Quote from: "Voldemort7"
when you have Dark Matter on you, all positive buffs are dispelled, and no positive buffs may be cast on you while it is in effect


Hehe. So you finally figured out a use for that status? Awesome.

I thought it was glitchy, though....


Anyway, I have two questions, though one of them admittedly isn't really related to this thread (but since this thread and Warder's Look are the only ones being updated at the moment...):

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Post by: Archael on November 29, 2008, 10:20:58 PM
Ok man seriously

I had written this before but decided to erase it out of niceness


This is the Mercenaries forum

keep it to Mercenaries ideas and topics

it is not the place to ask how to do things, that's what the other forums are for



as for question 2 yes he did decide
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Post by: boomkick on November 29, 2008, 10:33:33 PM
Couldn't we take names of weapons from other FF games and place them in this.

Flametongue for the Magma Blade
Deathbringer for Umbra

Just some examples.
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Post by: Archael on November 29, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
sure
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Post by: dwib on November 29, 2008, 11:07:15 PM
Quote from: "boomkick"
Couldn't we take names of weapons from other FF games and place them in this.

Flametongue for the Magma Blade
Deathbringer for Umbra

Just some examples.


i like umbra
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Post by: Zephyr on November 30, 2008, 01:11:45 AM
I love umbra lol. Glacial egde and magma brand sound pretty good as well. I'm gonna agree with Dom and say the earth sword needs some Gaia.. maybe Gaia Forge?
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Post by: The Damned on November 30, 2008, 01:17:24 AM
Quote from: "boomkick"
Couldn't we take names of weapons from other FF games and place them in this.

Flametongue for the Magma Blade
Deathbringer for Umbra

Just some examples.


Aren't those usually more "normal" Swords that have those names though and not KnightSwords? (Yeah, yeah, I know that technically Esperblades are regular Swords for the sake of Equip Sword.)

Not that I disagree with your suggestion. I'm just trying to remember, especially since I don't feel like trying to look through FFCompendium at the moment.

Too bad we can't use Ice Brand for Glacial Edge one.

Anyway, with regards to these weapons, do we yet know if some of them can be store bought? I'm just asking because LastingDawn's been busy enough to where he hasn't really described (understandably) what we should generally expect from the new missions/random encounters outside of Reliquirian/Antiquirian stuff.
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Post by: boomkick on November 30, 2008, 05:33:22 AM
Probably not, seeing as they are so strong themselves i would believe they would come from poaching, treasures, or steals. I like steals the most cause it is somewhat harder to get them.

Names are just names, not really applied to a certain type of item. A Flametongue could be a burning cloth for all you know :).
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Post by: dwib on November 30, 2008, 06:17:53 AM
Quote from: "boomkick"
Probably not, seeing as they are so strong themselves i would believe they would come from poaching, treasures, or steals.

Quote from: "Voldemort7"
WP: TRASH.


They WILL NOT be very powerful at all, so having a least some able to be store bought is reasonable
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Post by: boomkick on November 30, 2008, 07:03:09 AM
Quote from: "dwib"
Quote from: "boomkick"
Probably not, seeing as they are so strong themselves i would believe they would come from poaching, treasures, or steals.

Quote from: "Voldemort7"
WP: TRASH.

They WILL NOT be very powerful at all, so having a least some able to be store bought is reasonable


Aren't they here just for the chance to summon? And aren't the summons strong?
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Post by: dwib on November 30, 2008, 10:55:26 PM
Quote from: "boomkick"
Aren't they here just for the chance to summon? And aren't the summons strong?


summons are going to have effects other than just damage, so their strength will likely not remain as high. LD would know better than i would
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Post by: Archael on November 30, 2008, 10:58:40 PM
this guys offensive summons go off instantly

so im pretty sure they wont be as high powered

esp not with geomancy formula
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Post by: The Damned on November 30, 2008, 11:52:17 PM
I just realized something.

If Esperblades are the "solution to Summoners", then does this mean they'll actually have summons independent from their swords? I'm asking this because it seems like they won't, but I just not realized that they currently don't seem to have any Active Abilities whatsoever.

That could just well be because we haven't been told anyway, but I can't really think of a non-generic class that this is focused on weapons so as to make a comparison.
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Post by: Archael on December 01, 2008, 12:10:39 AM
Quote from: "The Damned"
I just realized something.

If Esperblades are the "solution to Summoners", then does this mean they'll actually have summons independent from their swords? I'm asking this because it seems like they won't, but I just not realized that they currently don't seem to have any Active Abilities whatsoever.



Of course they have Summons independent from their swords...

There's suggestions for their Active Abilities  all over this thread...

That LD hasn't decided on a final Skill Set is a different matter altogether  :D
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Post by: The Damned on December 01, 2008, 12:14:59 AM
Ah, right.

I'm completely out of it this weekend--well, more so than usual--due to the flu. Sorry.
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Post by: Archael on December 01, 2008, 12:30:33 AM
the summons they can use with their swords (if they are out of MP or decide to go for the 50%) are Summons '
which are unique to the Swords and will not be in the skill set, though
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Post by: The Damned on December 01, 2008, 12:48:58 AM
Oh, I had realized that part. That's actually what was confusing me since I had forgotten about the active abilities discussed earlier.

I was like "So they can only use Summons based on their swords? What happens if their weapon breaks? Or do they have Innate Maintenance?"
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Post by: Archael on December 01, 2008, 03:59:12 AM
Quote from: "The Damned"
Oh, I had realized that part. That's actually what was confusing me since I had forgotten about the active abilities discussed earlier.

I was like "So they can only use Summons based on their swords? What happens if they're weapon breaks? Or do they have Innate Maintenance?"



breaking their sword would royally screw them though

they need those swords to use the skillset (and those swords only)

it's going to be the only job to equip them

outside of learning the Equip Spell Blade skill (however god knows what LD will be naming that in the end)

their item type could end up being called something else
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Post by: Archael on December 01, 2008, 11:46:21 PM
ok the final list of what skills are in the skillset is in the main topic

IDEAS, GO!!

Moogle- 1 AOE, (MA+15%) Add: Charm OR Confuse OR Sleep

Shiva - 2 AOE (MA+60%) Cancel: Positive Statuses

Ramuh - 2 AOE (Weak Lightning Damage)

Ifrit - 1 AOE (MA+35%) Adds: Berserk

Silf- 3 AOE, (Weak Wind Damage)

Fairy - 2 AOE (MA+75%) Add: Regen

Midgar Zolom - 2 AOE (Weak Damage) 100% Add: Poison

Zodiac - 1 Panel - (Heavy Damage)



All M-Evadeable
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Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2008, 12:43:02 AM
Quote from: "Voldemort7"
ok the final list of what skills are in the skillset is in the main topic


Shouldn't that be "front page" instead of "main topic" since "main topic" is a completely different thread? [/nitpick]

Anyway, the skillset looks good, except that Fairy shouldn't be evadable since it's a Buff and maybe it should heal a bit. Then again, the point of "getting rid of" Summoners was because they do basically everything but Raise people (and between smart use of Golem and Carbunkle, it was extremely easy to prevent people from dying, at least in vanilla), right?

Other than that, Moogle's hit rates seems a lot lower than it should be, especially for something that doesn't do direct damage, affects only one entity AND is M-Evadable dodgable. Similarly, Shiva may be a bit too high.
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 12:57:02 AM
M Evadeable only applies to offensive spells...

friendly targeting spells do not check for M EV bro

forget the numbers, it's the ideas that we wanna look at

numbers can be changed in 2 seconds
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Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2008, 01:07:07 AM
Very well then.

I'm hesitant to suggestion things, but this time not because I might use them in my own patch. I'm just not sure which Summons we still use since I know that Traveler has Rich/Lich and that Titan, Cyclops and Salamander are now Esperblade only.

Can we still use Carbunkle or we only suggestings changes to the above summons?
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 01:08:40 AM
I think he took carbunkly fellow out
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Post by: LastingDawn on December 02, 2008, 01:13:56 AM
Here is the proposed skillset (also updated on the first post)

Summoners to Esperblades -

Summons are very... well very dull, in the normal game they are the uncontested best skillset with Short Charge. Now I'd like to change that, their formula has been altered, to coincide with their names, they, along with the Geomancers use well... the Geomancy formula.

The Esperblade's purpose is to be a mage-fighter, the Red Mage will still have a lot of use though. Since... he'll be a bit more versatile, the Esperblade's strength is his relatively decent HP, but his weakness is his lack of versatility, to even use his skillset, he'll have to use his swords power, which is very low.


The Summons of the EsperBlades

Moogle- Confuddle - 1 AOE, (MA+30%) Add: Charm OR Confuse OR Sleep

Shiva - Winter Wither - 2 AoE, (MA + 35%) Remove all Positive Status (Dispel)

Ramuh - Scepter's Bolt - 2 AoE, no height Tolerance, Medium Lightning Damage, 25% Don't Move

Ifrit - Summer Spasm- 1 AOE (MA+45%) Adds: Berserk


Silf- Autumn Aerial - 3 AOE, (Weak Wind Damage)

Fairy - Spring Salvation - 2 AOE (MA+75%) Add: Regen
 
Midgar Zolom -Serpent's Spite -  2 AOE (Weak Damage) 100% Add: Poison

Zodiac - Astral Assault - 1 Panel - (Heavy Damage)





THE 5 SPELL BLADES
WP: TRASH.

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9976/parallelsdesktopscreensqa3.jpg) Earthsplitter - Earth - 50% Summon Titan on Hit

(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7137/parallelsdesktopscreensen4.jpg) Glacial Edge  - Ice - 50% Summon Cyclops on Hit

(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2325/parallelsdesktopscreensxk7.jpg) Magma Brand - Fire - 50% Summon Salamander on Hit

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8313/parallelsdesktopscreensmq6.jpg) Umbra - Dark - 50% Cast Misery Mask on Hit

(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3825/parallelsdesktopscreenslf6.jpg)  Magi-Sword - ??? - ???
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 01:16:37 AM
yay

this job is really coming together now
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Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2008, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
The Esperblade's purpose is to be a mage-fighter, the Red Mage will still have a lot of use though. Since... he'll be a bit more versatile, the Esperblade's strength is his relatively decent HP, but his weakness is his lack of versatility, to even use his skillset, he'll have to use his swords power, which is very low.


Okay.

So if that's the focus of Esperblade, then I can't think of anything else to suggest that would "work" with the focus of the limitation.

That said, just to clarify, all these Summons are Instant, correct? Do you plan them to eventually take MP to use?
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 01:28:42 AM
MP to use, Instant (Weapon Strikes)
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Post by: boomkick on December 02, 2008, 01:32:53 AM
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
...

The Summons of the EsperBlades

Moogle- Confuddle - 1 AOE, (MA+30%) Add: Charm OR Confuse OR Sleep

Shiva - Winter Wither - 2 AoE, (MA + 35%) Remove all Positive Status (Dispel)

Ramuh - Scepter's Bolt - 2 AoE, no height Tolerance, Medium Lightning Damage, 25% Don't Move

Ifrit - Summer Spasm- 1 AOE (MA+45%) Adds: Berserk


Silf- Autumn Aerial - 3 AOE, (Weak Wind Damage)

Fairy - Spring Salvation - 2 AOE (MA+75%) Add: Regen
 
Midgar Zolom -Serpent's Spite -  2 AOE (Weak Damage) 100% Add: Poison

Zodiac - Astral Assault - 1 Panel - (Heavy Damage)



If it is not too late, some renaming could be in place.

Winter's Wither sounds awkward for some reason. Maybe change wither into something else, maybe curse or something. Turn it into Winter's Curse.

Scepter's Bolt...eh... sounds off again (sorry for the criticism). Raging Thunder is my opinion. It's just that i don't understand... why scepter?

Summer Spasm... that last word again. I know your trying to do the seasons, but spasm seems more of confusion than berserk. Maybe fury or something that coincides with Berserk would work better in my opinion.

Autumn Aerial. Again with that last word. I can't come up with any other word other than Fan, but Aerial... yeah...

Spring's Blessing. Salvation sounds pretty powerful and likely to revive or resurrect someone.

Serpent's Spite is perfect (OMG LOL)

Astral Assault. It would be fine, but assault sounds more AOE then a single target spell.

My opinions on this subject.
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Post by: LastingDawn on December 02, 2008, 01:56:32 AM
Ah, you see the naming for the seasons is supposed to be in the style of old limericks, which is the style of Balmafula's magics, it adds a more archaic feel (which is part of the style of the EsperBlade) They represent a dying practice. Therefore their skill names and the seeming convoluted way of using Summons come to mind, they are a very specific class, their purpose, feels almost as if it's right out of an old spell book, that was the focus for them. The spell names are representations of such. At least as far as the seasons are concerned. Which are the only four which Require limericks, the other's can be whatever is decided upon, but the Reason Ramuh's is called Scepter's Bolt is because... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UR37z33f4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UR37z33f4)

The bolt is coming directly from the Scepter which Ramuh is holding. But perhaps Bolt doesn't sound... powerful enough, a suggestion for that would be fine.

But if you can think up Limericks which describe the four summons actual effects, I'll keep them in mind.
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 01:59:51 AM
psh

some of those were hard to come up with

IMHOHOHOHOOHNOHOMO
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Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2008, 02:08:47 AM
Quote from: "Voldemort7"
MP to use, Instant (Weapon Strikes)


Ah thanks.


Hunh.

Until boomkick's post, since I have like 7 other windows open and am concurrently doing 3 other things, I didn't notice the alliteration trend.

Since I like both alliteration and being a contrary asshole (sometimes), I will also suggest names:



I also concur that Serpent's Spite is perfect already.
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 02:19:15 AM
Spring Salve, Summer Savagery, and Winter Winnow are upgrades

the rest not so much IMO
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 02:21:21 AM
Annihilation is alot more brutal than Assault
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Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2008, 02:22:59 AM
Quote from: "Voldemort7"
Annihilation is alot more brutal than Assault


Doesn't Zodiac/Zodiark still do the most damage of all summons? It might not OHKO people twice over anymore, but it's still the strongest, no?

I'm fine with Assault, I just agree that word has connotations for a more widespread attack, especially if the attack is non-physical in nature.

(As for the others, I was just trying to get away from the letter S being in half of the skill names. S is a whored letter as it is in English letter; don't stroke its massive ego.

[...Damn.])
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Post by: Archael on December 02, 2008, 02:25:18 AM
it's the strongest in a not very strong (damage wise) skillset, yes


the name is for the effect.. it's rather exaggerated and big.. maybe annihilation does fit

wait

ABROGATION

use that
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Post by: LastingDawn on December 02, 2008, 02:38:29 AM
Quote from: "The Damned"
Quote from: "Voldemort7"
MP to use, Instant (Weapon Strikes)

Ah thanks.


Hunh.

Until boomkick's post, since I have like 7 other windows open and am concurrently doing 3 other things, I didn't notice the alliteration trend.

Since I like both alliteration and being a contrary asshole (sometimes), I will also suggest names:

  • Confuddle --> Chaotic Charm. (It's hard to think of something that fits with "c" letters on top of not trying not to use Charm since people will probably think of Charming rather than Charm as in an [Moogle-Shaped] Item.)
  • Winter Wither --> Winter Winnow. (Even without the apostrophe that boomkick accidentally added, Winter Wither sounds kind of odd, especially since you kind of expect magical barriers to "break" rather than "decay".)
  • Scepter's Bolt --> Jugdment Jolt. (Lol.)
  • Summer Spasm --> Summer Savagery. (I have to also agree with boomkick on Spasm sounding awkward and more like Confusion [or some type of pain]. People tend to get more pissy the hotter it is, so this was an easy decision name-wise.)
  • Autumn Aerial --> Fall Foehn. (I was sort of leaning towards "funnel" until I decided to look up foehn in the dictionary to make sure it was a real word and not just from Star Ocean 2. It is.)
  • Spring's Salvation --> Spring's Salve. (Easy. And again, I agree with boomkick: Salvation makes it sound more powerful than it actually is.)
  • Astral Assault --> Astral Annihilation. (Again, boomkick is correct in that assault seems more widespread. Annihilation seems more of precise strike [or least really big damage]. I'm not sure if Annihilation will fit, though, so Abrogation might be a fine substitute. [I'm not sure what the letter limit is.])

I also concur that Serpent's Spite is perfect already.


Very nice! Perfect limericks, They sound very archaic (especially Foehn) and the other's are nice fixes Summer Savagery makes sense, and Winter Winnow sounds fantastic! Though I don't care much for Chaotic Charm, it's a bit of a... confusing name, considering it's effect, though Confuddle means to expressly confuse, in terms it is a broad enough term to also include other... maybe a better name might be called for.

Astral Abrogation sounds great for Zodiac, great idea.
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Post by: The Damned on December 02, 2008, 02:41:19 AM
Thanks.

Confuddle is also fine with me; I was just trying to get all of them to have the same alliteration trend, but I'm not really a fan of the letter C and the only fitting things I could think of noun-wise were Charm and Cuteness, both of which sound really awkward.
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Post by: boomkick on December 02, 2008, 02:41:29 AM
well i think that is for the best then, not sure if i can up with good vocabulary for the limericks or seasons.
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Post by: Archael on February 08, 2009, 08:29:54 PM
their skillset is like

perfect
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Post by: MiKeMiTchi on August 09, 2009, 01:42:37 AM
Looks great so far.
Just fix the views showing the back of the EsperBlade.
The lower part of the cape looks unblended with the upper part. :)

GJ! Progress makes Mercenaries!
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Post by: Archael on August 09, 2009, 04:09:40 PM
why was this class skills re-balanced to be more powerful but with a charge time?

IMO their skills should drop down in power greatly and become instant

also, 100% of their skills should use the sword strike animation

I think some of them are (in the ppf you sent me) working like normal spell anims
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Post by: MiKeMiTchi on August 09, 2009, 04:57:20 PM
Quote
why was this class skills re-balanced to be more powerful but with a charge time?

IMO their skills should drop down in power greatly and become instant

also, 100% of their skills should use the sword strike animation

I think some of them are (in the ppf you sent me) working like normal spell anims


Somehow, I agree with you Sir Voldemort.
I guess having more versatility is better.

Also, this will make them more fun to play with, imo. :)

-
The good thing about having charge time, is that it'll
indeed gain more power, and better strategies.
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Post by: Archael on August 09, 2009, 04:59:06 PM
well, the original idea for them was for them to be magic sword skillers (battle mages?)

swing sword, magic comes out
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Post by: LastingDawn on August 09, 2009, 11:01:56 PM
Yes, it was when the data was reset a long time ago, and I had to basically start from scratch (I didn't want to say this to anyone because it would no doubt cause anxiety at the time) so that's just one part I missed during my testing periods, it will be fixed in the Training Demo, no need to fret. Though it is unfortunate that version is the one shown on video, eh well. Everything can't turn out perfect, hehe.
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Post by: Archael on August 09, 2009, 11:02:53 PM
I see

want me to re-send the stats of the Arbalist's original skills? I still have those around on video
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Post by: LastingDawn on August 09, 2009, 11:20:02 PM
Ah, if you could that would be great.
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: LastingDawn on July 30, 2010, 05:46:55 PM
Resurrection!

This is a very special one at that.

Philsov came up with the idea yesterday to tie 4 Summons each to every separate SpellBlade, this seems impossible at first (Leviathan is crucial to storyline, so he's no longer a common summon. Odin and Lich are in Traveler's set) but! I think with a very special spriter that is a possibility. So if you'd like think up Any monster (or minor character) from an FF game, supply a workable sprite or picture (from their game preferable)  and we will see what can be done with that! From there we will arrange the SpellBlades to each "summon class" of "Esper" given.
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on August 02, 2010, 02:08:25 AM
Chocobo/Imp summon

And maybe a Myst Dragon
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 02, 2010, 03:11:59 AM
Oh, Mist Dragon... I like that! The other two will definitely work (especially if we somehow make tiers based on the EsperBlade's parts.
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: Kagebunji on August 02, 2010, 02:42:25 PM
Diablos, Atomos, and if you think it is fine, then Quetzalcoatl/Ixion. Was Alexander in FFT? I cannot say for sure if he wasn't.
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 02, 2010, 03:49:59 PM
Quote from: "Kagebunji"
Diablos, Atomos, and if you think it is fine, then Quetzalcoatl/Ixion. Was Alexander in FFT? I cannot say for sure if he wasn't.

Diablos is cool, Atomos is classic, Ixion/Quetzacoatl though... I'm not very fond of. Any creature that takes the spotlight from (my personal favorite summon in FF *Not counting Exodus*) Ramuh, is not welcome, hehe.Now, what did you have in mind for Diablos? As a base to work off of to be put into the game? The only trouble with him is that he's from a 3D game, maybe he has some official art I'm not aware of?
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: Kagebunji on August 02, 2010, 03:57:53 PM
Since you plan on giving EsperBlades swords in order to summon, I thought of doing a weapon like Warp Blade(or some other name), it would include Diablos, Atomos, and some other gravity-related Summon. Diablos could take 3/4 of HP with average % chance, while Atomos...Hmm I need to remind myself how Atomos in FF9 worked. Anyway, how many summons you want a single sword to have, three, two, or more?
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 02, 2010, 04:17:32 PM
Quote from: "Kagebunji"
Since you plan on giving EsperBlades swords in order to summon, I thought of doing a weapon like Warp Blade(or some other name), it would include Diablos, Atomos, and some other gravity-related Summon. Diablos could take 3/4 of HP with average % chance, while Atomos...Hmm I need to remind myself how Atomos in FF9 worked. Anyway, how many summons you want a single sword to have, three, two, or more?

Every sword is currently meant to have 4 Summons. I like the idea of a theme to four of the elements, Gravity is a possibility on that front... Though perhaps... since there will be 16 Summons that While it may have a rank, each blade will possess Four Elements of eight. This would mean that each element would have two representatives, that being Atomos and Diablos is fitting for the Gravity Element, one will likely be a little weaker than the other, if things are done that way. Wow I'm bad at explaining things... ahem... to better illustrate this...


Elemental's Blade

Ifrit - Berserks Foes - Summer Savagery
Shiva - Dispels Buffs - Winter's Winnow
Ramuh - Scepter' Bolt (Single range, major Lightning Damage)
Maduin - Very High MP Cost, but it does deal good Lightning/Ice/Fire damage over an ordinary Summon Range. - Tri - Elemental


Just for an example of what I mean, each one represents an element (though clearly that doesn't always mean damage) and preferably I don't want a mix of the three (as I did for example: Maduin) Though for one blade or so, it could work.
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: ffta707 on August 02, 2010, 10:41:57 PM
Those spell blades look great. Also, I agree with kage, I think it would add a lot of variety, and make the job more interesting.
Title: Re: EsperBlades: The solution to Summoners! (First Page Update)
Post by: LastingDawn on August 22, 2010, 03:15:29 PM
Philsov has given his ideas as it stands, ideally I would like new summons, but I won't wait for it if need be. In any case. what do you all think of this SpellBlade arrangement?
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: ffta707 on September 01, 2010, 01:18:24 AM
It looks good to me. I don't have any crits at all.
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: philsov on September 01, 2010, 04:41:56 PM
ok, he's a question:

There are 5 base knight swords/esperblades.  We're actively using 4 because splitting a 16-ability skillset 5 ways is a horrible idea.  What to do with the fifth?  We can make it a Masterblade (enables all 16), Dual Blade (Elemental + Nonelemental, or something), Hybrid (One from each of them), or just have an awesome WP/stats but enables no summoning?

Also about new summons: They're quite doable.  We just need graphical effect changes put into place, and those need to happen in order to do the rest.
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 01, 2010, 07:26:50 PM
The fifth blade was always meant to be special, it's the "Magi-Sword" treasure from FFT. I still have yet to give it any special effect. And in the case of curiosity the new name for the spell blades are...

Nostrum Brand - Healing
Crystal Sword - Elemental
Omen Edge - Status
God-Blade Anastasia

Sorry, Very pressed for time.
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: MiKeMiTchi on September 02, 2010, 06:24:29 PM
Are the EsperBlades now melee-casters? I would have love that!
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 02, 2010, 09:57:59 PM
Melee Casters? No, not really. Their swords have always had rather low WP, and their PA was never too impressive. They can equip heavy armor though.
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on September 03, 2010, 12:47:53 AM
Hm.... Make the Magi-Sword the one powerful spellblade that doesn't cast, that uses a MA formula.
Title: Re: EsperBlades Job Thread (SpellBlade Skillset Update!)
Post by: LastingDawn on September 03, 2010, 01:00:40 AM
Not exactly sure what formula you had in mind for that PX, granted  though there might be another Weapon-esque formula that might be able to be made...